Touhou ANGRY RAGING SMASH SMASH Thread #6

[Barrakketh]

There are some good western players which have perfected that stage.
It's not that hard, I've had runs where I went for 50% of the stage no bomb no death.

It's hard, but it never crosses the border between hard and bullshit.

Really?

It's not what you were talking about (or what this thread is really for) but since Dodonpachi was brought up, does anyone know of any perfect runs of this Hibachi using power style??  That more or less looks like the very essence of bullshit when that meter is filled (and even when it isn't, TBH).  How about a perfect 1cc?

[Iryan]

It's hard, but it never crosses the border between hard and bullshit.

BS doesn't mean that an attack is too hard. BS means that an unusual amount of luck is involved in that the same attack (or stage portion) can suddenly form a nigh or even outright impossible pattern when it would be managable otherwise. This usually stems from too high randomization of the bullet patterns, which is why adhering to an at least somewhat specific pattern is a good thing.

You label stuff that is too difficult for you as bullshit and disregard the opinions of players who are better than you. Granted, there are some touhou patterns that are bullshit. Granted, you are without much of a doubt a better player than me. Granted, you have much more general shmup experience than me. And yet I can tell that you are being unfair towards the games, and I bet that the same problems you accuse touhou of are present in a similar manner in the bullet hell games you favor.

Kanako's opener is:
An attack that has a simple specific pattern that is randomized to such a degree that it is unmemorizable, yet it is always 100% fair in that the difficulty stays constant from beginning to end, it has a constant bullet density and it cannot throw walls at you; there are always openings. The attack is just difficult because it is fast.
My point is what I've said earlier: Kanako's opener is the opposite of bullshit. It is both very hard and completely fair at the same time.

Why can't bosses simply dump a ton of shit on me without any gimmicks or patterns?

A ton of shit without any patterns

[Sapz]

I watched the DDP S6 video and what i saw was a player spending a crapload of bombs whenever redirecting didn't serve. Has anyone outside of japanese super-playership even perfected that?

New goal acquired. :V

[Azinth]

Guys, I think you're taking Bananamatic's uncreative trolling a little too seriously.



Also...

It's not what you were talking about (or what this thread is really for) but since Dodonpachi was brought up, does anyone know of any perfect runs of this Hibachi using power style??  That more or less looks like the very essence of bullshit when that meter is filled (and even when it isn't, TBH).  How about a perfect 1cc?

Hibachi

perfect runs

lol

[Bananamatic]

Is there any chance you could provide a video of that?

going offtopic, whatever
iirc he isn't japanese so yeah

anyways arcade shooters work a bit differently, they start out around Normal and end up somewhere past Lunatic. All in 5-6 stages.

Obviously, stage 6 is extremely hard to perfect for a non superplayer, so if you expect to give it a day and perfect it...this ain't touhou :V

Really?

It's not what you were talking about (or what this thread is really for) but since Dodonpachi was brought up, does anyone know of any perfect runs of this Hibachi using power style??  That more or less looks like the very essence of bullshit when that meter is filled (and even when it isn't, TBH).  How about a perfect 1cc?

It's a game which was released in January...give them a chance >.>

Anyways, the first boss in that video(the huge war machine named Taisabachi) was already no missed so I doubt that Hibachi will last much longer...or Cave overdid it this time.
You can't really compare a Cave TLB to stage 4.
Also, later DDPs have hypers.

You label stuff that is too difficult for you as bullshit and disregard the opinions of players who are better than you. Granted, there are some touhou patterns that are bullshit. Granted, you are without much of a doubt a better player than me. Granted, you have much more general shmup experience than me. And yet I can tell that you are being unfair towards the games, and I bet that the same problems you accuse touhou of are present in a similar manner in the bullet hell games you favor.

Kanako's opener is:
An attack that has a simple specific pattern that is randomized to such a degree that it is unmemorizable, yet it is always 100% fair in that the difficulty stays constant from beginning to end, it has a constant bullet density and it cannot throw walls at you; there are always openings. The attack is just difficult because it is fast.
My point is what I've said earlier: Kanako's opener is the opposite of bullshit. It is both very hard and completely fair at the same time.

My point was that Touhou goes from WTF hard(Kanako's opener) to loleasy(her second nonspell)
Why not just make the first one easier and the second one harder and BALANCE THE GODDAMN GAME.
It's not -that- bullshit, just way too hard.

Patchouli on the other hand...how can I get the skill to stop her from making quick turns on every Princess Undine round, making me waste 2+ bombs because of poor design?

How to stop the bosses from camping on one side, preventing me to do any damage at all?

I still like PCB and IN - I can't find a single bullshit attack in there, the difficulty is balanced, the hitboxes are acceptable and there isn't too much memorization involved.

EoSD is ruined by randomness and hitboxes, MoF and SA require too much memorization and UFO tries to compensate for the high difficulty with an insane amount of extends.
Would you enjoy a shmup with 50 extends but every single attack being a solid wall?

Guys, I think you're taking Bananamatic's unintentional trolling a little too seriously.

fix'd

now, let's drop this topic and rant about failing attacks while the timer was on 0

[Zengeku]

And yet I can tell that you are being unfair towards the games, and I bet that the same problems you accuse touhou of are present in a similar manner in the bullet hell games you favor.

Seen from my perspective they certainly are. If you fail to destroy enough enemies in DDP you can consider yourself walled. If you don't know what you are doing that's very likely to happen to you. The stages are long and if you don't deal with them right you are gonna spend a ton of resources getting through them.

Certain bosses also requires employing specific tactics to destroy and the final attack of the game are 100x more wtf than any Touhou attack i have ever faced. I just get destroyed.

If Banana's accusations are right then Touhou is BS and if mine are right then DDP is BS. It is pointless to discuss though. If i claim a certain part of DDP to be BS then someone will come along and tell me that if i do this and that i can make it possible. If Banana says something in Touhou is BS then someone will come around and tell him that if he does this and that he will survive.

In both games cases there is probably a solution for the vast majority of the games.

now, let's drop this topic and rant about failing attacks while the timer was on 0

You are right. It is pointless to discuss any further. I just had a few additional things to add but that's basically it. Even though that "drop this topic" is typical for a trolls who wants to appear grown. I'm certainly not accusing you of trolling though. It just might seem similar to trolling even though it is serious. I know all too well *thinks back on certain events involving me and DDP a loooong time ago.*

As for Touhou rage:

I keep dying to Scarlet Gensokyo - Not so much the bullets, more the bubbles. Their EoSD hitboxes are so annoying!!!

[Bananamatic]

protip: bomb every single large wave she throws and focus on getting under her so you can do more damage

[Matsuri]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Still, not bad for a first try in months.

[Zengeku]

protip: bomb every single large wave she throws and focus on getting under her so you can do more damage

Right. That's good for survival. I want a capture. Right now i'm doing better at Scarlet Meister though. I have gotten close a bunch of times on that actually.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

Tried LLS Lunatic for the first time in a while. Game over on Stage 5 Yuka.

I bombed twice on Stage 2's stage part, twice on Stage 2 boss, died once at stage 2 boss, bombed stage 2 boss a third time. Died a few times on Stage 3. Don't remember how to do stage 3 preboss waves. Die before second stage 4 midboss because I don't know how to do that part. Didn't pay attention after second stage 4 midboss and get shot point blank. Died twice to Marisa. Failed completely at the stages.

This game is way too easy and should be doable with not much practice.

[DgBarca]

I was near a wall, trying to face the wall of bullet that was coming and Marisa used a LV3...yeap...fuck you Marisa

[Forte Blackadder]

now, let's drop this topic and rant about failing attacks while the timer was on 0

You mean when you nearly got Kanako and an yahoo messenger popped up?
Heh.
I flamed my friend he almost deleted my nick.... ;__;

[Bananamatic]

You mean when you nearly got Kanako and an yahoo messenger popped up?
Heh.
I flamed my friend he almost deleted my nick.... ;__;

Well yeah, I was 1 second off 1ccing MoF lunatic on my first attempt in 2 months where I captured only 3 cards.
Also died as Astronomical Entombing was exploding.

also why is kefit online and not posting here etc.

[DracoOmega]

Rather demoralizing to realize that, 40-something attempts to 1cc UFO hard later, my ability to capture nearly every spell card is basically the same as it was after my first couple tries. Will I not improve at them at all? T.T

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

Derp on Suwako's

opener
first spell
third spell
fourth spell
fifth spell

I still clear. I can so no death this stage if these don't happen.

Oh, and Suwa War and Red Frog suck. I don't know how to do either of them. Only need Suwa War though, I've captured all the others in that stage at least once.


Edit: Just derped enough that I didn't even get a chance at capturing Suwa War.

[Kinzo the Astro Curious]

So I've started trying to play MegaMari

Holy shit. A whole new way to rage at the touhou theme.

I raged less when I worked out how to change character.

I raged again when I kept hitting that button instead of jump.

raged some more missing key jumps or getting knocked back by well timed fairies.

God damn, how hard can a first stage be lol. Ease in guys lol. My best technique so far is pretty much when you hit a wall of fairies run through them and take damage as in those situations I cant find a better way out lol.

[HakureiSM]

ZUN, fuck you ??
Why did you make Aya so fast? It's so hard to beat her on PoFV.

[Barrakketh]

ZUN, fuck you ??
Why did you make Aya so fast? It's so hard to beat her on PoFV.

What difficulty?  The more I cleared story mode with the various characters the easier she got.  Pretty much everything she throws at you is streaming.  It's completely different from Yuka (who I find easy 99% of the time), and Medicine (who never fails to be infuriating).

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

Medicine generally kills me less than Aya does. I can expect to die to Aya 2-3 times. Medicine 1-2.


The problem with Aya is that she somehow gets near constant boss summons. And yes, the fight is streaming, but she forces you to the edge of the field then hits you.

[HakureiSM]

What difficulty?  The more I cleared story mode with the various characters the easier she got.  Pretty much everything she throws at you is streaming.  It's completely different from Yuka (who I find easy 99% of the time), and Medicine (who never fails to be infuriating).

Normal, cuz I'm lame. It's not so much the attacks she throws on me, more like the aparent ineffectiveness of my attacks on her. I can't seem to hit her enough, she dodges everything.

[Barrakketh]

Normal, cuz I'm lame. It's not so much the attacks she throws on me, more like the aparent ineffectiveness of my attacks on her. I can't seem to hit her enough, she dodges everything.

The AI is bullshit.  You just have to survive long enough until it lets you hit it (more like ramming the nearest bullet).

Shikieiki in particular is bad about this.  I don't think I have ever damaged her on the first round (and certainly never beat her), and I've heard it's damn near impossible to do so.

[Kinzo the Astro Curious]

Urgh god damn Yamaxanadu. Few times on PoFW I've got to that stage with no issues, and then just given up.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

ebarret said that it's about a 3minute timer for Shikieiki on Lunatic for nonbroken characters.

I've actually seen her live that long on Normal just to still beat me on a nonfirst round.

Basically, AI is cheating crap regardless of difficulty. The only difference is you're more likely to 1 life rounds 6-8 on Normal than Lunatic.

[Kinzo the Astro Curious]

Its a shame that invincibility period manages to be so damned annoying. As otherwise I find the battle system on PoFW really entertaining. How you can choose to try and do them damage, or save some charge to counter attack spell cards, or how attacking those floating thingymabobs causes your smaller attacks to appear on their screen.

I might consider online play if I didn't generally suck at schmups as it is, without including the fact my controller and keyboard also suck, so stand a chance against the forums seasoned players - I do not lol.

[HakureiSM]

Aya dodges everything.

Even when she's all the way up there, and my gauge is level 4 already. I use everything, bullets spawn to her fucking face and all of a sudden I'm dead wtf just happenned?

[Bananamatic]

everyone dodges everything.

for great justice

[Barrakketh]

ebarret said that it's about a 3minute timer for Shikieiki on Lunatic for nonbroken characters.

I've actually seen her live that long on Normal just to still beat me on a nonfirst round.

Basically, AI is cheating crap regardless of difficulty. The only difference is you're more likely to 1 life rounds 6-8 on Normal than Lunatic.

Are only Aya and Medicine considered broken?  Reimu and to a lesser extent Tewi have a decent time against the AI since their EX attacks screw around with it and they end up getting walled/hit by them, and I'm not sure what's up with Cirno.

My experience is that on normal I can usually expect Shikieiki to last about 2:15-2:30 without getting hit at all unless she has two or so flowers.  If it's the first round I'm screwed anyway, no exceptions.

Despite someone on another board telling me Extra was easy, I say he's full of it.  I hate Komachi's scope, I hate her charge attack that usually doesn't hit anything.  And then there's the usual speed increase for projectiles (especially the snowballs) that is part of going from Normal -> Extra.  The fact that the AI folds shortly after the timer running out doesn't make up for the fact that there is a lot more spam that's noticeably faster than I'm used to dealing with.

[HakureiSM]

for great justice

Except I just wish I had them ziggys to take off at those times. Would help.

[ebarrett]

Are only Aya and Medicine considered broken?  Reimu and to a lesser extent Tewi have a decent time against the AI since their EX attacks screw around with it and they end up getting walled/hit by them, and I'm not sure what's up with Cirno.

- Aya and Medicine are broken because the AI can't deal with their EX attacks at all;
- Cirno is considered broken because if there are two or more icicles moving down together straight into the AI, it'll only try to dodge after it has been trapped between them; most people have had more luck with it than me, to be honest, and it seems to be rather reliable, but I can't guarantee anything;
- Reimu's and Tewi's balls can hit the AI outside the timers but don't count on it. It will work eventually, though.

These (plus Shikieiki's boss laser) are the attacks which can hit the AI without requiring any strategy from the player; Reimu can trap the AI rather reliably with her L2s and L3s, and in fact that's how I've beaten lunatic Shiki in match mode, but just spamming these without thinking will only get most of it reflected back at you for a quick, horrible, unavoidable death. If you do put together a plan, though, you can do anything.

As for Shiki's lunatic story mode suicide timers: expect to need three minutes in the third attempt, maybe a bit less in the fourth. I've beaten her on rare occasions in three and a half in the second, but I've also failed to beat her a few times in three and fourty seconds; not sure what the timer is for the second round to be honest. Also keep in mind that stopping shooting to reduce bullet density could postpone the timers; I've never tried it, but since extra mode stops the clock if you don't shoot for a few seconds, I think it's safe to assume the same happens behind the curtain in story mode.

Difficulties below lunatic are just a blur for me, to be honest. It is possible that it takes longer to beat the AI in these, though, since if the timers are the same, the chances of the AI randomly running into a bullet at every "checkpoint" are lower due to lower bullet density.


tl;dr;

Try again; fail again; fail better.

[MysTeariousYukari]

IN, Stage 6B, I make it to Kaguya's Survival Cards and FAILED everyone one of them before the "This card is almost over" even began/more then 15 seconds on each, cept one of them which only had 14 seconds left when I got slapped.