-
As you all know, fans like to exaggerate stuff about the characters and even make up things that do not exist. I'm not trying to start a debate about canon vs. fanon. Remember the old thread about which character got ruined by fanon the most? Consider this thread to be something similar to that.
There are some canon stuff that tend to be forgotten or ignored by fans, and I think Meilng, Tenshi, and Kaguya are three characters that really got messed up by this the most.
Someone once defended Meiling's canonical portrayal in an old thread. I really have agree that Meiling got a harsh treatment in fanon, but for whatever reason, people find it fun and hilarious. I am aware that there are decent number of doujins that portray Meiling canonical personality and characteristics accurately.
Sometimes I feel like crying whenever I see Tenshi's portrayal in fanon. Seriously, there is no explicit implication in canon at all that she is a masochist. The "punish me" quote is more of a taunt, much like how villains sometimes taunt heroes/heroines by telling them to defeat them or else the world will be destroyed or something like that. If such a quote really does imply masochism, then all villains who say that are masochists. And no, the Masochist Level thing in Grimoire of Marisa isn't proof. Marisa's way with words is questionable, so that shouldn't be trusted. I prefer a Tenshi who likes to fight rather than one who likes to get beaten up. Also, I really wish that her poisonous blood (only to demons) and tough skin would get used more often in fanon.
Kaguya... I'm convinced that canon Kaguya and fanon Kaguya are not the same person. They just happen to have the same name and look the same. Seriously, her canonical and fanon portrayals have pretty much zero similarities, save for being lazy, but even so, canon Kaguya is shown to be very worked up at times. Her canonical portrayal is pretty much nonexistent in fanon. I'd rather read a doujin about Kaguya going on a hiking trip rather than one about her playing MMORPG.
There's also Komachi. Just because she started the events of Touhou 9 due to slacking off doesn't mean she is very lazy and likes to sleep all day long. Wild and Horned Hermit shows that she takes her job seriously, but fanon basically made her the Snorlax of the series...
While I have nothing against this, I still want to point out that Cirno and Letty's relationship in canon isn't like how fanon portrays them at all. It would be fun to see doujins or fan arts that show their canonical relationship. I don't remember seeing a single fan work portraying that.
-
Which ones do I wish got used more?
All of them.
That's right, every single one.
-
Most of them, but the first character that came to my mind was Alice. The tsundere shtick has gotten old years ago.
-
Most of them, but the first character that came to my mind was Alice. The tsundere shtick has gotten old years ago.
i-it's not b-because i l-like you o-or a-anything!
But seriously, I'd like to see a bit more canon Iku. All I really see is her breaking some badass moves that end in a fever, being naked for whatever god-forsaken reason, or on the rare occasion she's actually mature. And Iku's one of those characters I really couldn't care less about, I could go on a long spheal about what characters should be more canon.
-
Meiling usually gets the worst of it. For some reason. I'm still baffled as to why fandom likes to bully her the way it does. At least for a few characters, their fanon personalities come from canon (however exaggerated they may be), but for poor Hong, it's like everyone agreed to COMPLETELY ignore her canon facts and turn her into another Komachi. Yeah, Komachi. She's the slacker in canon, isn't she?
Also, I do find the "China" nickname a bit insulting. It's like calling a black guy Africa (that example might be a bit extreme, but ...there's my point).
It's not only Meiling, but characters like Cirno, Alice, Reimu, Sakuya, Keine, Utsuho and even Rinnosuke that get screwed over by the fandom. Why do they make Cirno retarded? Why did they change Alice's personality just because she teamed up with Marisa ONLY ONCE? Why is Reimu portrayed as a selfish, greedy money hog? Why is Sakuya a knife throwing maniac? I could literally go on and on.
Now I'm not saying that the fandom shouldn't have it's fun. But you can still have fun with the character in canon! You don't have to make up whatever pops into your head and decide that's your canon!
Sometimes I feel like crying whenever I see Tenshi's portrayal in fanon. Seriously, there is no explicit implication in canon at all that she is a masochist. The "punish me" quote is more of a taunt, much like how villains sometimes taunt heroes/heroines by telling them to defeat them or else the world will be destroyed or something like that.
THANK YOU! What Tenshi said was just a taunt! And if I remember right, Tenshi only said that line once. To Youmu. But this makes my point about how the fandom exaggerates. It also comes to show how sensitive they can be to just one small utterance. I mean just because Suwako, Patchouli and Utusho said "A~u", "Mukyuu" and "Unyu" respectively (and only ONCE might I add), suddenly, they're catchphrases. Cute ones, nevertheless, but still.
-
I actually read this topic a bit wrong, more like "Things that appear in canon that should become a part of fanon"
But seriously, I'd like to see a bit more canon Iku. All I really see is her breaking some badass moves that end in a fever
Someone needs to make some Iku sprites and hack her into Dangun Feveron.
Why do they make Cirno retarded?
I know it was around since PoFV (maybe before then?), but the GFW dialogue pretty much seals it into canon. Cirno's not all that bright...
Anyway, hmm... I guess I would like to see fewer Marisa pairings. Also Yukari's perverted gapping and general laziness when she's not pervertedly gapping.
-
I know it was around since PoFV (maybe before then?), but the GFW dialogue pretty much seals it into canon. Cirno's not all that bright...
Neither are Sunny, Luna or Star. Seriously, even with the way Cirno is portrayed in fandom, she still holds more common sense than those three in the game. Pay close attention to the dialogue they exchange in-game. Come back and tell me which one is the true ⑨.
-
Tenshi only said that line once. To Youmu.
IIRC, Reimu gets this as well. But I do agree on it being more of a razzer than an actual statement.
-
I've always hated the "Tenshi is a masochist" portrayal. It really isn't fair for the poor girl.
Neither are Sunny, Luna or Star. Seriously, even with the way Cirno is portrayed in fandom, she still holds more common sense than those three in the game. Pay close attention to the dialogue they exchange in-game. Come back and tell me which one is the true ⑨.
Indeed, compared to those three stooges Cirno is much smarter and stronger. She really has grown since EoSD.
Speaking of... "Uu~" needs to die. :/
Meiling being bullied so much is an exaggeration, but her being at least a bit lazy is cannon. In BAiJR, she was accused of having been napping while the red roses were turned red, but she fervently denied it. Meiling abuse by Sakuya is cannon too. Remember in the fairies manga? Remilia wanted to find Lily White so spring would come to the SDM first, and Sakuya had Meiling looking for Lily White, even though she knew it would be absolutely impossible to find her so easily. In the end, she totally forgot that she made Meiling search for her.
-
Meiling abuse by Sakuya is cannon too. Remember in the fairies manga? Remilia wanted to find Lily White so spring would come to the SDM first, and Sakuya had Meiling looking for Lily White, even though she knew it would be absolutely impossible to find her so easily. In the end, she totally forgot that she made Meiling search for her.
That was just for comedy; I've seen the same formula in various anime. So it's not really abuse. Unlike most portrayals, Sakuya does care for the gatekeeper. Remember the ending to Hisou. She herself expresses worry about the fact that Meiling wasn't waking up from her sleep.
-
I have found that some-- not all, however-- fanon portrayals of characters pick out one tiny detail about a character (be it a comment they or another character makes about them, for example-- or worse, making up something about them that has nothing to do with them to begin with), and go so far to make that one part all the character is worth. It's a horribly one-dimensional representation of characters that have far more potential than just that alone. It's kind of sad, I think.
So in response to the question-- I would say 'all of them', as well. This isn't to say I'd like to see absolute strict adherence to canon, but rather more attention paid to it in lieu of minimizing a character's worth for the memetic nonsense the fanbase presses upon them, stifling their potential.
Also, sometimes subverting canon is all right when executed well, especially in terms of personality-- which isn't particularly something that can always be defined by one trait and one trait alone.
That said, I wish idiocy like 'Aya/Sanae is a slut' or the endless penis jokes about Koishi, for example, would just die already. :/
-
Kaguya... I'm convinced that canon Kaguya and fanon Kaguya are not the same person. They just happen to have the same name and look the same. Seriously, her canonical and fanon portrayals have pretty much zero similarities, save for being lazy, but
No. Kaguya is not canonically lazy. Her official profile states that she enjoys having guests, showing off lunar artifacts and telling stories. Inaba of the Moon shows her in fact restless and anxious to find things to do, whether fishing or touring Gensokyo. Being bored does not mean being lazy.
That was just for comedy; I've seen the same formula in various anime. So it's not really abuse. Unlike most portrayals, Sakuya does care for the gatekeeper. Remember the ending to Hisou. She herself expresses worry about the fact that Meiling wasn't waking up from her sleep.
I know you really, really, really like Meiling and feel the need to defend her, because you've talked about it a lot, but Meiling being bullied is canon. This doesn't mean Sakuya doesn't care for her, and it also doesn't mean she gets bullied as badly as is portrayed in fanon, but it does happen.
That said, I wish idiocy like 'Aya/Sanae is a slut' or the endless penis jokes about Koishi, for example, would just die already. :/
God yes. This isn't remotely based on anything canonical; it's just dumb.
-
Also, sometimes subverting canon is all right when executed well, especially in terms of personality-- which isn't particularly something that can always be defined by one trait and one trait alone.
Sad that Touhou fans don't seem to do a good job at that. I'd understand if a character has had only one single debut and has not shown her face in another game or had a significant appearance in a printed work (meaning they've had dialogue).The fandom seems compelled to give these characters the attention they deserve, but at the same time there is so little about them that they feel the need to fill in the blanks with nonsense.
Take Flandre for instance. An EX-boss in EoSD with a small cameo appearance in the Inaba comics. Not much foundation to build on except for her bio from the aforementioned game and Perfect Memento. So fans go wild when they portray her. She could either be a playful child who just doesn't know her own power, or a psychopath that lusts for destruction.
And even when there is more than enough information, the fans still want to make up things that don't even relate to the character. I would like to give a special mention to Yuuka. No bit of information on her insinuates that she is a sadist. Not her bio, not even Perfect Memento. But because of one line of dialogue from PoFV, suddenly, she's a frightful (sleeping) terror. And that has stuck.
Honestly, why does the fandom base a character's personality on just a single sentence or word they say?
I know you really, really, really like Meiling and feel the need to defend her, because you've talked about it a lot, but Meiling being bullied is canon. This doesn't mean Sakuya doesn't care for her, and it also doesn't mean she gets bullied as badly as is portrayed in fanon, but it does happen.
Just because Sakuya forgot about her that one time doesn't mean she bullies her.
-
Other examples have been given in the past. Just because you choose to ignore them doesn't mean they're not there.
-
I'm....lost. Elaborate please. Because as far as I know, there's no bullying whatsoever. Unless you're talking about the dialogue from the fighting games, I think some of the lines are throwbacks to the fandom itself. Like Cirno uttering that she is the strongest or Meiling telling everyone to remember her name.
-
Well if they're in the official games, how are they not canon?
Look, I don't mean to derail this thread by having you go on, once again, about how unfair people are to Meiling. I'll just drop it here.
-
Well if they're in the official games, how are they not canon?
Wait, so it was the dialogue from the fighting games you were talking about? Um...I think you have a different understanding of the word "bullying".
-
Wait a second... why do artist would be consider being locked in Canon? Fandom is about imagination really, sho it makes up things, for making up things. How stupid they are is kinda.... a subjective point of view. Some I like, some I don't. Bottom line, they do it for lulz, sho don't mind their stupidity...
-
Wait a second... why do artist would be consider being locked in Canon? Fandom is about imagination really, sho it makes up things, for making up things. How stupid they are is kinda.... a subjective point of view. Some I like, some I don't. Bottom line, they do it for lulz, sho don't mind their stupidity...
No, no, what I'm saying is, fandom should be based on canon facts. Not just things made up from the blue. Like my previous point about Yuuka. She's not really a sadist, but because she said a single sentence, then she is. It just gets aggravating when fandom adopts a character nature that doesn't even exist.
-
Wait, so it was the dialogue from the fighting games you were talking about?
To clarify: not solely, no. Like I said before.
No, no, what I'm saying is, fandom should be based on canon facts. Not just things made up from the blue.
Why? Why can't an artist create things completely unrelated to canon? That's not what the point of this thread is. This thread - and mind you, I'm going by the thread title here - is to talk about canon portrayals we wish were used more in fandom. Asking fans to stay strictly within the limits of canon is a bit much.
There are plenty of artists who do try to stay as faithful to canon as possible. I have, generally speaking, when it comes to fanfiction. The problem with the strict canon rule is that no matter how faithful you try to be to canon, there's always going to be some pedantic, hair-splitting, needling critic who will gleefully point out that your portrayal is not canon. In other words, a completely canonical depiction does not exist, unless it's written by the game creator himself.
But there certainly are aspects of canon that deserve more attention, which I believe is what this thread is about.
-
Most of them, but the first character that came to my mind was Alice. The tsundere shtick has gotten old years ago.
This.
-
On the topic of canon portrayals that I'd like to see more of:
1. Kaguya the socialite.
2. Aya the hard-drinking, fight-loving, sarcastic-interviewing journalist.
3. Tenshi the bored, fun-seeking, slightly spoiled girl.
-
No. Kaguya is not canonically lazy. Her official profile states that she enjoys having guests, showing off lunar artifacts and telling stories. Inaba of the Moon shows her in fact restless and anxious to find things to do, whether fishing or touring Gensokyo. Being bored does not mean being lazy.
I know you really, really, really like Meiling and feel the need to defend her, because you've talked about it a lot, but Meiling being bullied is canon. This doesn't mean Sakuya doesn't care for her, and it also doesn't mean she gets bullied as badly as is portrayed in fanon, but it does happen.
God yes. This isn't remotely based on anything canonical; it's just dumb.
I assumed she was a bit lazy, what with being unable to do sit-ups and toe-touchings properly (though that's more of physically unfit), and in chapter 8 of Inaba, Eirin had to drag her out of bed. Thanks for clearing things up, though.
-
Well, I assumed she was a bit lazy, what with being unable to do sit-ups and toe-touchings (though that's more of physically unfit), and in chapter 8 of Inaba, Eirin had to drag her out of bed. Thanks for the clear things up, though.
Oh, right, I see where you got that from now. That's understandable.
-
No, no, what I'm saying is, fandom should be based on canon facts. Not just things made up from the blue. Like my previous point about Yuuka. She's not really a sadist, but because she said a single sentence, then she is. It just gets aggravating when fandom adopts a character nature that doesn't even exist.
It's ok you have your own opinion, and you know now mine :P
I could just arse on people do not seeing difference between canon and fandom. It's really ok they both exists... and based on the artist choice, rather than general public or anything like that, some Doujins are cool, some are just stupid, and it's also ok.
-
It's not artists that piss me off (most of the time), it's non-artistic fans that take fandom as "word of God" over Zun himself that pisses me off.
Most of the fanon that I feel has gotten out of control (Tenshi, Marisa harem, Genocidal Flandre) has already been mentioned, so I'll just go ahead and point out I feel Komachi is misinterpreted. People basically make her a completely uselsess narcoleptic, when she's more like your typical semi-useless procrastinator. She puts off her work as long as she can, basically walking around with a pair of S.E.P. glasses, then gets deadly serious when she has to (whether that's Sikieiki-related or otherwise). Not saying that's any better or more admirable, but it's much different than "I'm going to sleep all day away screw everything else." Even Eiki got fooled into the idea that she was a hard worker at first.
Another canon I'd like to see more of is Yuyuko's. Oh god Yuyuko, how you've fallen from an easy-going master who often is wiser than she lets on, only to be turned into a lazy glutton just because of a few off-hand comments in IN. I would love to see more of the easy going "I know more than you" Yuyuko seen in SSiB, and 10D.
Biggest offenders are Ran and Chen. Chen is a confident youkai, user of the black arts, leader of a cat "army"**, and is especially strong when her master is around. Ran is a powerful shikigami who handles most of her master's work while she's sleeping and is proud of/confident in her own shikigami's abilities (remember she assumed that Chen could handle the heroines in PCB extra).
**Speculated in PMiSS testimony
-
It's not artists that piss me off (most of the time), it's non-artistic fans that take fandom as "word of God" over Zun himself that pisses me off.
Most of the fanon that I feel has gotten out of control (Tenshi, Marisa harem, Genocidal Flandre) has already been mentioned, so I'll just go ahead and point out I feel Komachi is misinterpreted. People basically make her a completely uselsess narcoleptic, when she's more like your typical semi-useless procrastinator. She puts off her work as long as she can, basically walking around with a pair of S.E.P. glasses, then gets deadly serious when she has to (whether that's Sikieiki-related or otherwise). Not saying that's any better or more admirable, but it's much different than "I'm going to sleep all day away screw everything else." Even Eiki got fooled into the idea that she was a hard worker at first.
Another canon I'd like to see more of is Yuyuko's. Oh god Yuyuko, how you've fallen from an easy-going master who often is wiser than she lets on, only to be turned into a lazy glutton just because of a few off-hand comments in IN. I would love to see more of the easy going "I know more than you" Yuyuko seen in SSiB, and 10D.
Biggest offenders are Ran and Chen. Chen is a confident youkai, user of the black arts, leader of a cat "army"**, and is especially strong when her master is around. Ran is a powerful shikigami who handles most of her master's work while she's sleeping and is proud of/confident in her own shikigami's abilities (remember she assumed that Chen could handle the heroines in PCB extra).
**Speculated in PMiSS testimony
Yuyuko being a glutton is canon, though it's true that the fandom exaggerated it.
Also, I wish to see Rinnosuke's shotgun umbrella and pet cat (at least I think it's his pet) in fandom (both are from Inaba). They never got used...
-
Why? Why can't an artist create things completely unrelated to canon? That's not what the point of this thread is. This thread - and mind you, I'm going by the thread title here - is to talk about canon portrayals we wish were used more in fandom. Asking fans to stay strictly within the limits of canon is a bit much.
:ohdear: Yeah I know. I just hate it when canon is ignored completely. Then what's the point? I suppose it could be the fun factor, but it gets old fast when it's overused (which it sometimes is).
As for me, I just want to see everyone portrayed more as they should be. Yes, that does include Hong. But not just her of course. Mimeslayer mentioned Yuyuko, who has pretty much turned into a joke; nothing more than a ghostly glutton (yes, it's canon but it's going overboard). We have a a bunch of respectful characters reduced to Butt Money or Joke Character status. When it's use for comedy, that's okay, but like I said, it gets old fast because everyone and their mother constantly overuses it.
-
I actually read this topic a bit wrong, more like "Things that appear in canon that should become a part of fanon"
Someone needs to make some Iku sprites and hack her into Dangun Feveron.
I know it was around since PoFV (maybe before then?), but the GFW dialogue pretty much seals it into canon. Cirno's not all that bright...
Right from EoSD you can see Cirno is not bright. What I don't really get about fanon Cirno is from where her moe-moe aspect comes. She's consistently showed as a selfish, overconfident and aggressive faery. (but then again, the same could be said of the rest of "team 9". Wriggle's "hand over the girl!", said to Sakuya ("girl" being freaking Remilia) is probably the single most retarded display of overconfidence ever uttered in Touhou games).
As from Meiling, while fanon turns her into a buffoon (I'm thinking In Colonel Aki's Life of Maid), she's canonically "just average" in a mansion of super powered monsters. The lazy aspect is overplayed, however, and this is irritating.
-
Right from EoSD you can see Cirno is not bright. What I don't really get about fanon Cirno is from where her moe-moe aspect comes. She's consistently showed as a selfish, overconfident and aggressive faery. (but then again, the same could be said of the rest of "team 9". Wriggle's "hand over the girl!", said to Sakuya ("girl" being freaking Remilia) is probably the single most retarded display of overconfidence ever uttered in Touhou games).
As from Meiling, while fanon turns her into a buffoon (I'm thinking In Colonel Aki's Life of Maid), she's canonically "just average" in a mansion of super powered monsters. The lazy aspect is overplayed, however, and this is irritating.
I don't get why Cirno is being chewed out so much. For one, she's technically a kid doing what kids do. When she runs into you, she just has childish confidence. It has nothing to do with her being bright or not. Speaking of which, how was it decided that Wriggle and Mystia are part of "Team 9"? I could understand Rumia and Daiyousei, since they're in the same game and adjacent to eachother by stage order, but why two characters from an entirely different game? I'm not complaining though. It's an interesting grouping, but it's a special case.
And I suppose compared to everyone else in the mansion, Meiling isn't all that threatening, but she is physically strong and her power to manipulate chi isn't something to chortle at. I don't think Remilia would hire a weak gateguard anyway (knowing how prideful she is), so it's obvious Meiling has great worth in her eyes.
-
It bugs me how a lot of artists like to portray Flandre as an absolute psycho who will obliterate you in an instant. But canonically, this obviously isn't true. Although in her profile, ZUN has called her "kind of nuts", that doesn't mean she's flat-out crazy. Hell, in EoSD, the playable characters are able to talk to her and she certainly at least seems civil enough to carry on a conversation (she even calls out Marisa on her lack of manners when she doesn't introduce herself first), and same goes for Bohemian Archive, where Aya interviews her--She is able to talk quite normally, though her "craziness" comes out a bit, but only in the form of being difficult to understand due to her "emotional instability". Flandre just strikes me as an immature kid who can sometimes get a little out of control when she loses her temper, and doesn't quite realize the strength of her powers, but otherwise is alright.
Also, as mentioned earlier, I'd like to see a little more canon Ran and Chen, which are usually overshadowed by "suppatenko" and "CHEEEEEEEEN".
-
Goodness, I almost forgot about Ran. Both she and Sakuya have been reduced to complete pedophiles around Chen and Remilia. The latter is strange enough because of her age, but it still strikes me as creepy pedophilia.
-
Which ones do I wish got used more?
All of them.
That's right, every single one.
This. I mean, I like USC Yuuka and Psycho Flandre, but that's a result of me getting sucked into the fandoms and not playing the games first. Everything else is canon rape - I'm tired of seeing "hurp Sanae is a psycho/Byakuren is a Nazi/Remilia/Eirin is a coldhearted bitch/Koishi will drive you insane/Sakuya has breast envy/Kaguya is a NEET" shit everywhere.
People do know that Canon Chen is a prankster on the level of Tewi?
-
...but that's a result of me getting sucked into the fandoms and not playing the games first.
Y'know what? Maybe that's why I loathe some fan interpretations. I discovered Touhou through a doujin game and started out playing the actual games. So I got the canon exposure.
People do know that Canon Chen is a prankster on the level of Tewi?
*facepalm* I completely forgot about that! This is what I was talking about! Canon is outright ignored! Chen is almost never portrayed as a prankster; just a cute foil for Ran.
-
This question is interesting in that it is "Canon portrayals you wish got used more" and not "Fanon portrayals you wish got used less" (and I'm getting a sense that some people in this thread are blurring the two, though that may just be faulty reading comprehension). There are tons of answers to the latter, but for the former they're a bit harder to come by.
To be honest, haughty Alice is the only one that really comes to mind immediately. Everyone else, for the most part, I either enjoy or ignore the comedic over-exaggerations of their character traits as I see fit.
Savory: Go play Sengoku Gensokyo some time, I think you'd like the SDM part of Story Mode. (Also play it because it's a good game and their Letty portrayal is amazing.)
-
As per all the stupid tsundere/yandere Alice portrayals, we have the symptoms. (http://eva-st-clare.deviantart.com/art/FAILice-For-Dummies-185420748)
Now, we need the cure.
@Sav - Pretty much. I didn't start playing the games until recently, and even then, I was slowly becoming annoyed with the fandom's love of grimderp and twisting weird shit and reusing pad jokes.
I mean, canonically, Yuuka scares people shitless and Flandre supposedly psycho, so I can get behind their genocidal portrayals (that is totally not because I'm writing a fanon-based story about them), but they're both so moe in canon~~~
-
Oh dear Lord. The pad joke. I absolutely hate, despise, detest, abhor, [insert about 50 more synonyms for "hate" here] the pad joke. Like Meiling and Flandre, Sakuya is another SDM resident blown off by the fandom. And it's even worse than Hong's because this nonsense came from the fact that alphes draws more prominent breasts than ZUN.
That's it.
A difference in art styles means a character wears pads.
-
I find the pad joke funny. :derp:
I don't usually use it if I write cannon-faithful fanfiction, though. Just for laughs in conversation or something.
-
Oh dear Lord. The pad joke. I absolutely hate, despise, detest, abhor, [insert about 50 more synonyms for "hate" here] the pad joke. Like Meiling and Flandre, Sakuya is another SDM resident blown off by the fandom. And it's even worse than Hong's because this nonsense came from the fact that alphes draws more prominent breasts than ZUN.
That's it.
A difference in art styles means a character wears pads.
I especially hate it when fandom turns her into a psycho (granted, she had Serial Killer-themed spellcards) or a sadist bitch.
In fact, what's with fandom and turning someone into a sadist bitch? Eirin, Sakuya, Remilia, Yuuka, Yukari, Yuyuko of all fucking people, Kanako...
-
Apart from being a stupid meme to begin with, it's another overused joke that's gotten old.
In fact, what's with fandom and turning someone into a sadist bitch? Eirin, Sakuya, Remilia, Yuuka, Yukari, Yuyuko of all fucking people, Kanako...
It's justified with Eirin. That's canon (of course, it's played for laughs and isn't as extreme). As for Yuuka, I've mentioned it already. Because she tells Shiki she was only teasing people when she scares them, the fans turned her into a sadist. I'm surprised that Yuyu is considered one, but I think that's the result of ANOTHER overblown line with the ghost getting a bone stuck in her throat. It suddenly turned into a Sylvester and Tweety scenario with her trying to eat Mystia.
Savory: Go play Sengoku Gensokyo some time, I think you'd like the SDM part of Story Mode.
How do you figure?
-
Except Eirin sells extremely beneficial to everyone at extremely low prices. She can wait a very long time for someone to repay their medicine.
(Except Aya. I think this is where this sadist crap comes from)
And yeah, Yuyuko getting turned into a mindless zombie comes from that fucking line about Mystia getting eaten... despite Mystia coming back in POFV and one of them fighting games.
Spoilers, but the SDM's story is actually pretty heartwarming.
-
If I had to narrow it down, I think Alice, Cirno, Meiling, Utsuho, Flandre and Sakuya got it worse. They're all misunderstood because fanon chooses to change things around or exaggerate. Or completely ignore crap and make up something else.
-
Except Eirin sells extremely beneficial to everyone at extremely low prices. She can wait a very long time for someone to repay their medicine.
Actually, I believe that PMiSS suggested that she might have ulterior motives as to why she does that, which can be easily be misinterpreted as Eirin slipping weird stuff into people's medicine, but I believe it's because she wants to quickly achieve her goal of being able to fit into human society. Fandom has definitely overdone the sadist thing.
I like sadist Yuuka, though. To an extent. :derp:
-
I feel sorry for poor Yuukarin though. I mean her big debut from the PC-98 era and she gets branded as a sadist just because she admitted she was just teasing.
-
I feel sorry for poor Yuukarin though. I mean her big debut from the PC-98 era and she gets branded as a sadist just because she admitted she was just teasing.
She DID say on MS that Genocide is just a game for her, tho...
-
despite Mystia coming back in POFV and one of them fighting games.
I don't recall Mystia showing up in either of the fighting games. o_O
-
She DID say on MS that Genocide is just a game for her, tho...
Still a joke. She runs around POFV trolling people in a similar manner.
There's also the bit in MS where she "kills" one of the bosses.
Also, IIRC, Eirin apparently gave Aya nightmares to make her go away.
Also, I think she's referenced in the fighting games.
-
This question is interesting in that it is "Canon portrayals you wish got used more" and not "Fanon portrayals you wish got used less" (and I'm getting a sense that some people in this thread are blurring the two, though that may just be faulty reading comprehension). There are tons of answers to the latter, but for the former they're a bit harder to come by.
It might be good if people noticed this, so I'm quoting it.
That said, some portrayals I'd like to see used more include:
1) Haughty, prim, and proper Alice, possibly with her obsession over minute details like in PCB (like when she states the exact value of 2 divided by 7 as 28.5714).
2) Marisa as a mathematical genius.
3) Yuyuko appearing to be a flighty, whimsical woman to hide her deep wisdom and insight.
4) Devoted bodyguard Reisen.
Of course, more canon in general is a good thing in my opinion, but, like Kilga,
Everyone else, for the most part, I either enjoy or ignore the comedic over-exaggerations of their character traits as I see fit.
-
I have no specifics. I want all of them too. Fanon has been used quite a lot, so it's refreshing to see canon portrayals every now and then.
-
Honestly, though, I'd take comedy over grimdark interpretations. Fucking Sanae's been turned into a psychobitch who hates everything and is on par with USC Yuuka because of her dialogue with Kogasa.
-
Honestly, though, I'd take comedy over grimdark interpretations. Fucking Sanae's been turned into a psychobitch who hates everything and is on par with USC Yuuka because of her dialogue with Kogasa.
Fortunately, it's a rare portrayal at best. But Sanae is still fairly new, so fandom hasn't infected her. Yet. If anything, she's the eccentric, archetype of the modern girl. I like how she's the character to whom we can say, "Yeah! You know what I'm talking about". She's easy to relate to and understand because she's from the same world as us.
-
I see a lot of people arguing about fanon Cirno, but what about Daiyousei?:V
I'd love to see more "mischievous little devil" Koakuma.
-
Psychobitch Sanae's gaining popularity amongst doujin authors doing stupid grimdark, like Stripe Pattern or that Koishi's Hearthumping Adventure series.
If there's anything I hate more than fandom twisting characters OOC, it's Touhou Grimdark. It's not even done for the sake of actual drama - it's just character abuse and "the author thinks [insert character here] is secretly evil!".
-
Psychobitch Sanae's gaining popularity amongst doujin authors doing stupid grimdark, like Stripe Pattern or that Koishi's Hearthumping Adventure series.
If there's anything I hate more than fandom twisting characters OOC, it's Touhou Grimdark. It's not even done for the sake of actual drama - it's just character abuse and "the author thinks [insert character here] is secretly evil!".
Define your interpretation of "grimdark", if you wouldn't mind. I've been accused of my interpretation of Medicine as being grimdark, though I see her as someone who is childish and vehemently hates humans with every fiber of her being. This would be enough for her to want to kill humans, possibly even taking joy in it. Is that grimdark, even though I based this on everything I've seen of her in canon?
-
That's... not OOC, actually. I'm talking crap like aforementioned Psycho Sanae.
-
Psychobitch Sanae's gaining popularity amongst doujin authors doing stupid grimdark, like Stripe Pattern or that Koishi's Hearthumping Adventure series.
If there's anything I hate more than fandom twisting characters OOC, it's Touhou Grimdark. It's not even done for the sake of actual drama - it's just character abuse and "the author thinks [insert character here] is secretly evil!".
I dunno, Sanae's dialogue in UFO is pretty much "KILL ALL YOUKAI!", over and over again. I think it's sorta forgivable to portray her as psycho in that context.
Except Eirin sells extremely beneficial to everyone at extremely low prices. She can wait a very long time for someone to repay their medicine.
(Except Aya. I think this is where this sadist crap comes from)
Maybe, but most of the sadist portrayal comes from Inaba of the Moon. See: "Punishment time~♪"
Nearly forgot: I want to see more sadistic, evil Mystia. I mean, look at what she does - blinding people with her song, and then selling them eel that can restore their sight? What a scheming little twerp! Could make for some really entertaining stories, I reckon.
-
Kaguya. A civilized, proper princess, with a lack of practical knowledge, a penchant for spontaneous projects, and a habit of trolling and killing the hell out of Mokou to stave away boredom. Plenty of things to do with that that don't involve World of Warcraft!
Marisa. As I've said before, she is the one character in Gensokyo with literally no superpowers. All her awesome magic? She got it through dedication, hard work, and complete disregard for the concepts of property and exclusivity. She does care about people, yes, CoLA and the fairies manga bear this out. But like the other magicians, her goals, such as that huge immortality pill of hers, come first. She's smart, smart-assed, prideful, easy to frustrate, and has no concern for her infamy, yet refuses to ditch the broom because that's how witches do it. This is an actual character right here. Reducing Marisa to "spark everything, ship everyone" is almost criminal.
Everyone in PCB. Seriously. Even Lily. You know you're doing it wrong when you mess a character as simple as her up. Yes, you can shoot me for shipping her with Yuuka. But yelling about spring has taken the place of the fact that she literally IS spring, which is something that is much more interesting. Don't even get me started on the Yakumos and Hakugyokurans...
-
All I have to say, is that I want to see more of wise, yet ridiculously aloof Yuyuko from SWR. That just fits her to a T. Much better than the "ravenous glutton" shtick.
-
Canon portrayals, eh? Well, the one that I would like the most to see would be Keine. She's only Mokou's friend, she shouldn't be over-obsessive about her or anything like that. The CAVED thing has died, thankfully.
-
Nearly forgot: I want to see more sadistic, evil Mystia. I mean, look at what she does - blinding people with her song, and then selling them eel that can restore their sight? What a scheming little twerp! Could make for some really entertaining stories, I reckon.
Yeah, I wish we'd see more of the cunning, conniving Mystia instead of her just being fodder for Yuyuko.
I also wish we'd see less of the "idiot" Cirno and more of the "childish but still competent" Cirno.
-
I don't get why Cirno is being chewed out so much. For one, she's technically a kid doing what kids do. When she runs into you, she just has childish confidence. It has nothing to do with her being bright or not. Speaking of which, how was it decided that Wriggle and Mystia are part of "Team 9"? I could understand Rumia and Daiyousei, since they're in the same game and adjacent to eachother by stage order, but why two characters from an entirely different game? I'm not complaining though. It's an interesting grouping, but it's a special case.
And I suppose compared to everyone else in the mansion, Meiling isn't all that threatening, but she is physically strong and her power to manipulate chi isn't something to chortle at. I don't think Remilia would hire a weak gateguard anyway (knowing how prideful she is), so it's obvious Meiling has great worth in her eyes.
About Cirno: My beef with her is mostly about her in-game quotes in eosd, where she threatens to kill both heroines and doesn't have even one portrait where her expression isn't "angry". Of course, Touhou is the game where the fandom feeds canon sometimes, so that by the time of Hisou Tensoku Cirno is much more nice and sociable at her ending.
About Team 9: I read that they are "the childish characters without importance for the plot" and that's explanation enough for me. I suppose that IC, at very least, Cirno knows Daiyousei (or whatever her name actually is), Mystia knows Wriggle because they're kind of neighbors and probably both sparrow and firefly met Rumia during the times they are looking for some delicious night snack (read: people).
now some random shotgunning:
Eirin - wait, she IS a sadist. Not a leather-clad dominatrix sadist, but she clearly enjoys to inflict pain on Udonge. About Eirin in general, i like to think she has a near Dr. Manhattan level of detachement from humanity with the single exception that she's devoted to Kaguya. Really, If not by Kaguya, Eirin would probably be creating life at another galaxy.
Touhou Grimdark - while I still have to READ fics with this theme, it's not repulsive for me if it makes sense. Of course, you have to separate the grim from the dark: Gensokyo IS a dark place. There are people being eaten there, probably every night. It's not a grim place, however, or at least the stories shouldn't be told about this point of view. In this, I believe Gensokyo should look a lot like, say, Diskworld, where many times the comedy is only in the way the author describes the cruel and unusual situatons the characters find themselves into.
Yuuka - is a classic psychopath. A polite, funny and pretty psychopath, that thankfully for the rest of Gensokyo is usually more into flowers than people (think an unholy cross of The Joker with Poison Ivy). There's not other way to join her portrait in PMiSS with her quotes in PoFV: She enjoys tormenting people and youkai alike, never shows a drop of empathy and Akyu wouldn't be lying about her abysmally low level of human friendliness, would she?
Alice, Marisa and Patchouli - one thing fanon almost never catch is that magicians are the nerds of fantasy: studious, haughty, obsessive and quirky people. They are more intelligent than almost everybody else and are storehouses of knowledge (but mostly useless trivia). Both Alice and Patchouli like to showcase that, while Marisa keeps to herself, just to let out one phrase or another that shows how much she does know.
-
I portray Cirno as a dumbass who think she's really good at everything, but she has her moments of not being a retard and is actually rather strong.
Frankly? PMISS's description really clashes with "lolol Eirin is a sadist who macks on Reisen". (Frankly, Inaba is funny, but the "Reisen is the eternal troll victim of everyone" is POISONING MY FANDOM ;-;)
I really don't see USC Yuuka as the Joker. More like Venom or Carnage, much more destructive than the Joker could hope to be.
Also, keep in mind PMISS outright states youkai extermination is in name only and the worst youkai do is kidnap people for show.
-
Yeah, I wish we'd see more of the cunning, conniving Mystia instead of her just being fodder for Yuyuko.
I also wish we'd see less of the "idiot" Cirno and more of the "childish but still competent" Cirno.
This too. Mystia and Cirno aren't bright people, but they're cunning, resourceful punks (punk here used in the "do you feel lucky, punk?" sense). While Wriggle and Rumia are objectively idiots (lol Wriggle, yes. Have your Remilia. Now what?) At least Cirno and Mystia know how to ambush people at their favored terrain and both have some truly devious attacks (Icicle Fall - Medium is the first trap in the game. Alright, a childish trap, but it's still most devious than anything Meiling has at her arsenal) and Mystia has her out of the game Lamprey Eel con.
-
In my opinion, Cage in Lunatic Runagate pretty much goes far against Sadist Eirin.
-
I portray Cirno as a dumbass who think she's really good at everything, but she has her moments of not being a retard and is actually rather strong.
Frankly? PMISS's description really clashes with "lolol Eirin is a sadist who macks on Reisen". (Frankly, Inaba is funny, but the "Reisen is the eternal troll victim of everyone" is POISONING MY FANDOM ;-;)
I really don't see USC Yuuka as the Joker. More like Venom or Carnage, much more destructive than the Joker could hope to be.
Also, keep in mind PMISS outright states youkai extermination is in name only and the worst youkai do is kidnap people for show.
@Cirno: agreed. She's not a retard, at all. She's actually very smart and resourceful for her species.
@Eiriin: PMiSS and BAiJR show Eirin's public persona. Inabas' and Cage in Lunatic Lunagate show her private persona. No conflict there. Again, she's not a dominatrix-like sadist, but one to whom casually torturing a moon rabbit is a bit like burning ants with a magnifying lens to pass time (in fact, a bit better, because she can then treat the burned ant back to perfect health). Cold? yes. Merciful? not a drop.
@Yuuka: Sorry, I forgot to add "the goddamn Juggernaut" at Yuuka's supervillain mix. The mix was supposed to show her mindset only (funny psycho that likes plants more than people).
-
Yuuka strikes me more of the "I'm usually nice, but f*ck with me and I'll rip your spine out" type. I don't think she'd go around causing trouble for the fun of it (yes, she likes freaking people out, but that's the extent of it apparently). Even PMiSS hints at her politeness while still warning you not to provoke her.
This too. Mystia and Cirno aren't bright people, but they're cunning, resourceful punks (punk here used in the "do you feel lucky, punk?" sense). While Wriggle and Rumia are objectively idiots (lol Wriggle, yes. Have your Remilia. Now what?) At least Cirno and Mystia know how to ambush people at their favored terrain and both have some truly devious attacks (Icicle Fall - Medium is the first trap in the game. Alright, a childish trap, but it's still most devious than anything Meiling has at her arsenal) and Mystia has her out of the game Lamprey Eel con.
I still think you're overblowing the "idiot" accusation a bit much. Yes, they aren't very smart, but they're not that dumb either. Cirno is just a kid, Mystia's overconfident (like most other bosses in the series are) and so is Wriggle. Rumia's simply being a youkai. I don't know why fans continue to hammer in the "stupid" nail.
And why the heck aren't those three stooges, Sunny, Luna and Star branded as idiots?!
-
And why the heck aren't those three stooges, Sunny, Luna and Star branded as idiots?!
Granted, they take part in major foolishness and wind up in predicaments they need help with, (see Strange and Bright Nature Deity) but still, they do have a sound battle tactic. (unfortunately that still doesn't work.) Yeah, they're clowns, but they're not Too Dumb to Live.
-
And why the heck aren't those three stooges, Sunny, Luna and Star branded as idiots?!
Because ZUN didn't explicitly call them idiots.
-
@Cirno: agreed. She's not a retard, at all. She's actually very smart and resourceful for her species.
@Eiriin: PMiSS and BAiJR show Eirin's public persona. Inabas' and Cage in Lunatic Lunagate show her private persona. No conflict there. Again, she's not a dominatrix-like sadist, but one to whom casually torturing a moon rabbit is a bit like burning ants with a magnifying lens to pass time (in fact, a bit better, because she can then treat the burned ant back to perfect health). Cold? yes. Merciful? not a drop.
@Yuuka: Sorry, I forgot to add "the goddamn Juggernaut" at Yuuka's supervillain mix. The mix was supposed to show her mindset only (funny psycho that likes plants more than people).
I never got a trace of her being a sadist from what I've read of CLIR. She calms Reisen down when she flips out about a moon rabbit landing at the Hakurei Shrine.
Also, I swear people really like Imperfect Metamorphosis's take on Yuuka. I like Tohonifun's take on her, and I also do get that she's nice and all in canon as long as you don't screw with her.
-
Because ZUN didn't explicitly call them idiots.
The fans ignore what ZUN says anyway.
-
The fans ignore what ZUN says anyway.
Her intellect is not very developed. She's just a child. To Reimu and Marisa, she's nothing more than a plain idiot.
From Cirno's profile in EoSD.
She's basically just a fairy, so she's an idiot who loves pranks.
From Cirno's profile in PoFV.
If by any chance Cirno should attack, just start to talk calmly about anything, and when she shows interest it is a good time to ask her a riddle. When you do that, she will start to think of the answer, and that is a good opportunity to escape. No matter how simple the question, she can certainly not answer it.
From Cirno's profile in PMiSS.
If ZUN repeatedly calls her stupid, then maybe you should talk to him about having a problem with it rather than complaining about the fans working with what they're given.
-
Yuuka strikes me more of the "I'm usually nice, but f*ck with me and I'll rip your spine out" type. I don't think she'd go around causing trouble for the fun of it (yes, she likes freaking people out, but that's the extent of it apparently). Even PMiSS hints at her politeness while still warning you not to provoke her.
This is pretty much what Yuuka is.
She's polite and will say hi if you greet her. The only time you have to worry about her going apeshit is if you piss her off directly, or fuck with her flowers. Otherwise, she's not going to do anything to you. But, you know how fandom is, twistin' things into "I'm a Ultra violent sadist who abuses anything that moves and has a thing for a firefly that I've never met in canon."
And what's this about fans trying to twist Yamame's nice girl demeanor into that of a black widow that's just as sadistic as the above flower youkai? What the hell, the only spider that doesn't want to suck out your insides and you want to turn it into the exact opposite? Honestly, this is only going to result in people hating Yamame for the wrong reasons...reasons that stem from fandumb branding her with a personality that's trying to overshadow the one that's actually endearing and makes her a loveable character.
-
That is exactly how I see Yuuka as well. Elegant-but-dangerous Yuuka is becoming a bit more common in fanart, I think.
-
I see her as cheerful and quite friendly.
Moe~
Thankfully, Youkai Moe (for better or for worse) is quickly gaining speed in Yuuka fanworks.
I've never seen Yamame as a sadist, but as a buttmonkey to the extreme, often getting slashed by Psycho Koishi or something else.
-
The thing about canon Yuuka is that she takes nothing seriously. Up to and including the role of youkai. This is why the Yama lectured her - not because she was messing with people, but because she was completely indiscriminate. After all, is not Eiki's advice in her vs. quote to harass humans more? The way I see her, she'd blast someone for messing with her garden, but probably greet them with a smile if she met them a few hours later at a party as if it had never happened. Assuming that person survives of course.
-
And what's this about fans trying to twist Yamame's nice girl demeanor into that of a black widow that's just as sadistic as the above flower youkai? What the hell, the only spider that doesn't want to suck out your insides and you want to turn it into the exact opposite? Honestly, this is only going to result in people hating Yamame for the wrong reasons...reasons that stem from fandumb branding her with a personality that's trying to overshadow the one that's actually endearing and makes her a loveable character.
I suspect it's the appeal of the spider.
However I will also say that a couple of the Yamame dialogues surprised me in how counter they ran to the "buddy" portrayal when I popped SA back in again a few days ago. I forget if I was playing Alice or Patchy at the time, but it sounded like she legitimately wanted to start a brutal fight for no real reason.
-
I see Yamame as a youkai protecting her territory, which is why she'd be randomly picking a fight.
On the topic of Yuuka, I see her more as a troll, the kind that does troublesome things just to see what would happen next, rather than a sadist.
-
If ZUN repeatedly calls her stupid, then maybe you should talk to him about having a problem with it rather than complaining about the fans working with what they're given.
I do acknowledge that Cirno isn't the smartest character. Part of that being the fact that she's a child by youkai standards (which, in itself, is excusable). But according to fandom, she's Too Dumb to Live. That's where it gets ridiculous.
-
I do acknowledge that Cirno isn't the smartest character. Part of that being the fact that she's a child by youkai standards (which, in itself, is excusable). But according to fandom, she's Too Dumb to Live. That's where it gets ridiculous.
Those almost exact same words are said by Shikieiki in that DANZAI pv. Except it's 'Too stupid to send to hell'. :V
While I'm at Shikieiki, I really hate how fans portray her as someone who sends people to hell on a whim rather than one who judges people before their time with hopes that they'll understand how bad they are and try to become better people. That and that everyone draws her childlike in appearance or simply flat because of her art rather than the cannonical portrayal of her being as or more imposing than Komachi.
-
This question is interesting in that it is "Canon portrayals you wish got used more" and not "Fanon portrayals you wish got used less" (and I'm getting a sense that some people in this thread are blurring the two, though that may just be faulty reading comprehension).
Requotan dis to remind people where they should be going. :V
-
Prankster Chen and Good Bedside Manner Eirin need moar.
-
Intelligent, calm, sensible Alice. Like you weren't expecting me to say this. :3
Yuuka who's actually not that bad, if she doesn't think you'll be fun to fight (or if she has some other motive).
-
Shikieiki that judges the living with good intentions in mind.
-
No mention of Suika? I like Suika being clever and incredibly good at reading people, despite her rough manner. (Her being a huge bitch sometimes I don't like so much.)
-
No mention of Suika? I like Suika being clever and incredibly good at reading people, despite her rough manner. (Her being a huge bitch sometimes I don't like so much.)
Huge bitch? Never seen that protrayal.
I usually see her as a happy-go-lucky drunk that knows more than she lets on.
-
Huge bitch? Never seen that protrayal.
I usually see her as a happy-go-lucky drunk that knows more than she lets on.
Same. She's always the party girl.
-
Yeah, I've never seen Suika being a bitch. Or Yuugi, for that matter.
-
Yeah, I've never seen Suika being a bitch. Or Yuugi, for that matter.
I think I smell more overblownness. Yeah, that's not a word. Whatever. Suika tends to be a tad critical (albeit honest) when she analyzes people. Methinks someone took that trait too far.
-
In accordance to Fanon, From what I know is that a certain character says something. In this case, Remi with her UUUU UUU~ and Okuu with her Unyu~, etc etc. One person picks this out, and now said character cannot be used in any sort of fanwork without said phrases or being based around a wooden personality. It's not the fact that this is bad, its all dependant on the writer and such.
But anyways, I've always wanted to see more canon Satori. From what I've seen of her, she's only been "mature" instead of tactical, smart, and all other things. The fact that most fanworks make it seem like she just loves to read minds to win an argument doesnt sit right with me.
-
Suika tends to be a tad critical (albeit honest) when she analyzes people.
She wasn't criticizing them to be nice. Attacking a person's insecurities (calling Alice a coward, calling Youmu dishonorable) is a cruel thing to do.
-
huge bitch
THAT'S A HUGE BITCH! (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/930883/2girls-3-ah-negitorow-armpits-ascot-battle-belt-bl) (Da'booru Warning)
I'm sorry, this was something that wouldn't leave me alone.
-
In accordance to Fanon, From what I know is that a certain character says something. In this case, Remi with her UUUU UUU~ and Okuu with her Unyu~, etc etc. One person picks this out, and now said character cannot be used in any sort of fanwork without said phrases or being based around a wooden personality. It's not the fact that this is bad, its all dependant on the writer and such.
Yeah, I mentioned this before. Characters like Suwako, Patchouli, Okuu and Remi only say those phrases once and it turns into a recurring catchphrase. I'll admit though, I have no problem with them. They're rather cute, but as I said before, it shows how sensitive the fandom is (refer to Tenshi).
On that note, I really really really want to see a Tenshi without a hint of masochism. Granted I dislike Tenshi because she just wanted to cause mischief out of boredom without any remorse for her actions whatsoever, but to fabricate a character's personality based on the fact that people misunderstood her taunting is just unfair to her (even though I hate her).
-
THAT'S A HUGE BITCH! (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/930883/2girls-3-ah-negitorow-armpits-ascot-battle-belt-bl) (Da'booru Warning)
I'm sorry, this was something that wouldn't leave me alone.
Ahahahahaha yeah I didn't consider that angle
-
THAT'S A HUGE BITCH! (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/930883/2girls-3-ah-negitorow-armpits-ascot-battle-belt-bl) (Da'booru Warning)
I'm sorry, this was something that wouldn't leave me alone.
Why didn't I think of that? Well played. :3
-
Same. She's always the party girl.
Thirded for great truth.
-
I always saw Alice as a crazy cat lady (except with dolls), since her PMISS report isn't so much as cold as "just kind of weird and bad at conversation".
-
I'd like to see more good writing in general. ZUN created fairly nuanced characters with contradictions like normal humans, which is one of the reasons fans go all over the place when they make them one dimensional.
Which brings me to the one portrayal I'd like to see more of : ditz Sakuya.
Of course she keeps the refined demenor and the mad maid skills, but canon Sakuya (unlike her fanon counterpart) always knew how to have some fun. Sometimes too much fun. And it fits her character. Why worry when you can stop time whenever shit goes wrong? Forget something? Stop time and go do it. Drop something? Stop time and pick it up. Someone trying to stab you? Stop time and walk away. Sakuya's almost bound to be overconfident with that power.
Actually that's something from canon I'd like to see a bit more of in general. Having fun. The Touhou cast all seem to enjoy themselves. Danmaku is like soccer, except instead of hooligans you get fairies and the riot is before the game.
-
Agreed. Gensokyo isn't grim.. and... dark. Also, needs moar pretty danmaku battles. They're explicitly nonlethal (except maybe for Reisen getting her clothes shredded).
-
Everyone gets their clothes shredded in danmaku. :derp:
-
Danmaku is like soccer, except instead of hooligans you get fairies and the riot is before the game.
That is the best line I've ever read.
That's Quotesig-worthy.
Which brings me to the one portrayal I'd like to see more of : ditz Sakuya.
Of course she keeps the refined demenor and the mad maid skills, but canon Sakuya (unlike her fanon counterpart) always knew how to have some fun. Sometimes too much fun. And it fits her character. Why worry when you can stop time whenever shit goes wrong? Forget something? Stop time and go do it. Drop something? Stop time and pick it up. Someone trying to stab you? Stop time and walk away. Sakuya's almost bound to be overconfident with that power.
As for Canon things I'd like to see more, I'd agree with you on ditz Sakuya.
She does canonically enjoy fun things, but is also responsible. In a way, she's Remilia's Lancer.
-
That is the best line I've ever read.
That's Quotesig-worthy.
Seconded. :3
-
I think it's time we discuss Yukari. She sure is a mixed bag as far a fandom goes.
-
But that's because Yukari is Yukari. Not even the characters themselves understand her quite well. :V
-
But that's because Yukari is Yukari. Not even the characters themselves understand her quite well. :V
I prefer the gentle, sage-like Yukari. :derp:
-
She may be all sagely and stuff, but she's also an incredibly ancient youkai.
My guess on her is that she's probably equal parts fanon(Trollish, and unafraid to pull a fast one), and equal parts canon(Wise, secretive, and all that.).
And in a way, that'd fit her the best. Do keep in mind that she's also not afraid of keeping secrets from folks, see SA for stuff like that.
In fact, outside of the fighters, I think that IN and PCB were the only games where she was actually present for incident resolution.
All the other times were remotely(SA), or not at all(MoF, UFO, PoFV).
Of course, that's excluding the fighters.
-
I prefer the gentle, sage-like Yukari. :derp:
Yes, she can be like that, but she's quirky and eccentric, too. No one really know what she's really thinking about most of the time, and she surprises people once she does reveal her thoughts. Even Ran has been caught off guard a few times and she's the on who knows Yukari best.
She may be all sagely and stuff, but she's also an incredibly ancient youkai.
My guess on her is that she's probably equal parts fanon(Trollish, and unafraid to pull a fast one), and equal parts canon(Wise, secretive, and all that.).
And in a way, that'd fit her the best.
Pretty much this.
-
I like the crazy hyper competent Yukari, where everything that has ever happened anywhere is according to her plan even the stuff she didn't plan. Only taking time off to mess with Ran, Yuyuko, Eirin, Reimu, the reader, ect.
Also on a serious note, going back on what was going on earlier. I'd like to see less NEET Kaguya as well.
-
Yes, she can be like that, but she's quirky and eccentric, too. No one really know what she's really thinking about most of the time, and she surprises people once she does reveal her thoughts. Even Ran has been caught off guard a few times and she's the on who knows Yukari best.
Okay, scratch that. Yukari's a mixed bag as far as canon AND fanon is concerned.
-
Yukari can be seen as many things, as Canon hints to pretty much all of her personalities in fanon. She can be wise, knows when to get shit done, or she can be troublesome and do stupid shit for the lulz. In fact, if anything, Marisa and Yukari are the two characters in fanon who arent changed much or at all from the actual canon.
-
...I'm thinking Yukari is Deadpool now.
-
...I'm thinking Yukari is Deadpool now.
No, no, no. Deadpool is obviously Yukari's descendant!
-
No, no, no. Deadpool is obviously Yukari's descendant!
I second this. :V
-
...I'm thinking Yukari is Deadpool now.
Someone should take paint away from me.
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/AKA_Gluttony/Yukaripool2.png)
-
Moar. :getdown:
-
Funny thing is? I can so see her saying anything Deadpool says.
-
Meiling is sleeping on the job in Hisoutenkou and BAiJR, so her being lazy is at least somewhat cannon (the extent is debateable). it's also true that Marisa gets by Mei Ling often. However, Marisa is hyper competent. For the most part, Akyu warns that you shouldn't disturb Mei Ling or do anything to her gate, so Mei Ling thus presumably keeps the majority of the riff rafff out (tho Akyu also thinks Mei Ling is meditating when Mei Ling is probably just slacking on the job, so I guess we can't trust Akyu's judgement on that one too much).
Patchouli describes Mei Ling as useless, but Patchouli says that for Sakuya too, so that doesn't mean much.
Unlike fandom, there is never any canon time when Sakuya physically abuses Mei Ling. At most, she snaps at her once when Mei Ling makes an admittingly silly comment in Strange and Bright Nature Diety regarding fairies. Otherwise, Sakuya generally seems nice enough to Mei Ling on a professional level (even taking Mei Ling inside when she catches her sleeping outside because she's worried about Mei Ling getting heatstroke in Hisoutenko. On a side note, this is a clear case of Sakuya catching Mei Ling sleeping on the job and instead of stabbing Mei Ling, she takes Mei Ling inside because she's worried about her. That's pretty much the opposite of fanon. ...on another side note, Patchouli remarks that youkai don't get heatstroke. Sakuya can sometimes be ditzy like that)
Sakuya herself is actually rather easy going, even when obeying Remilia's orders (she even says she doesn't believe that catching Lily will bring Spring to the SDM, but she's doing it anyways on Remilia's orders simply because such things keep Remilia entertained). There really isn't anything to indicate she's a psychopathic serial killer (besides the names of her spell cards). She's supposed to be the perfect and elegant maid, but fandom ignores that a lot.
Sakuya being a pedophile probably wasn't (purposefully) taken out of the cannon at all and it's a rather gross character butchering. Canonically, however, it is true that she does like fairies a lot (and fairies are childish) as shown by her attempts to recruit Cirno, the army of fairies in the SDM that she presumably recruited herself since she's the one in charge of hiring as shown by her ad in BAiJR (and apparently can even pick out which ones DON'T belong at a mere glance in SaBND!) and how extremely nice she was to Sunny, Luna, and Milky (whereas everyone else didn't even notice them). And she's generally happy with keeping Remilia entertained (even doing a sleight of hand magic trick for Remilia without Remilia requesting it in CoLA), but it doesn't get anywhere near into Sakuya nosebleed pedophile territory. If anything, Sakuya's probably just very motherly.
Yuyuko is clearly obsufucating stupidity (IE, pretending to be stupid). The latter stage dialogues of Imperishable Night clearly shows she knows what she's doing. She's actually able to predict what's going to happen next and merely covers it in a bunch of food analogies at several points in the story. Heck, she knows she's gone the wrong way before even Yukari does on that same path. This is also pointed out in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, where she at first looks like she's just goofing off but eventualy she tells someone (Tenshi, IIRC) that she KNOWS what's going on and that Tenshi's behind it, but is really just playing along while waiting for someone else to solve it (it's not her job, after all). The same goes for Ten Desires, where her profile again states she knows what's going on (and her dialogue shows she even knows who's behind it) but is letting the heroine do it because... well, that's what the heroine is going to do. No need for her to get so involved.
Yukari is actually similar to Yuyuko in that regard. Except possibly a bit more proactive and more manipulative (Yuyuko sits back and watches. Yukari manipulates others into doing things and then sits back and watches after that. Both play the fool the entire time but are really just pretending to be stupid. Tho both will get directly involved if they feel they have to, as shown by the games where... well, they get directly involved)
Both Yuyuko and Yukari seem perfectly capable of reading each other and seeing what the other REALLY means even while they're playing stupid with each other, on a side note (their dialogues with each other in the fighting games). One reason why they're such good friends, I imagine.
To be honest, I really can't think of many times that Yukari went out of her way to troll someone JUST for the lolz. Every single canon portrayal of her always has her on the way to doing something that's important for the sake of Gensokyo, instead of just going out and goofing off for the hell of it. However, she certainly does troll anyone with the misfortune of getting in her way while she's progressing towards whatever goal she's shooting for. Presumably, Yukari doesn't waste time trolling someone to pass the time cause she's too busy sleeping instead. Yukari only plays pranks on someone while she's passing by, instead of seeking out people to play pranks on in the first place (and even then, her pranks usually have a purpose, too. Such as attacking the three fairies to gauge their power). That said, she can be gentle and sage like at times too (she often lectures people on how Gensokyo works, as portrayed/stated in CoLA where she politely lectures Reimu on why Reimu shouldn't be futzing around with the barrier just to summon her, or her win quote to Sanae in Hisoutenko where she says she hopes Sanae is enjoying Gensokyo. Also, Akyu states she's more than happy to talk about things and herself. It's just questionable whether she's lying or not).
-
Do you know how much I love your walls of text? <3
That is basically the point of their characters. You extracted their essence perfectly.
-
Regarding Team ⑨... I always found Mystia to be older-looking compared to the other members. Cirno, Rumia, Daiyousei, and Wriggle clearly look like kids, but Mystia always struck me as looking more like a teen, and I've always assumed that she's the smartest of the bunch do to having her own business.
-
There really isn't anything to indicate she's a psychopathic serial killer (besides the names of her spell cards).
Marisa: So if I beat you, I become chief maid, right?
Sakuya: More people have said that and been killed than there are thorium decay products.
Chen: What are stray cats to do, then?
Sakuya: Why not get put to sleep at an animal shelter? The Buddhist Paradise is warm, they say.
Shikieiki: Yes, you're too cold to other humans.
Sakuya: That would be because the only thing I touch humans with would be my cold steel.
Also, do consider that Remilia and Flandre eat humans, and Sakuya is responsible for preparing their food.
While not depicted as a raving psychopath, she definitely has murdered other humans. She has become more mellow as the series has progressed, though.
-
Also, do consider that Remilia and Flandre eat humans, and Sakuya is responsible for preparing their food.
While not depicted as a raving psychopath, she definitely has murdered other humans. She has become more mellow as the series has progressed, though.
Adding onto that is the fact that she used to resent other humans for some reason. Again, she's mellowed out, but still.
-
Wait, they eat humans? Remilia's profile in PMISS states she drinks enough not to vampirize anyone and Flandre doesn't know there's blood in the cakes prepared.
Seriously, those threats aren't exceptional. Patchouli threatens to turn Marisa and Reimu into vitamins, Mystia wants to eat you, and Reimu threatens to bury Marisa and Alice alive or something like that.
Also, Sakuya being a pedophile is an offshoot of the Remilia/Sakuya pairing, because, damn.
-
Well, Sakuya has to get that blood from somewhere. :derp:
And I'm quite sure she wouldn't want to have to donate blood daily to mix into her mistresses' meals, light eaters or not.
-
Sakuya's cold-hearted, thats really all there is to it. I mean, Who ever heard of a character who's past is shrouded in mystery that ISNT some kind of d-bag?
Also yes, Technically they do eat humans. A vampire needs to feed often, and with two feeding on one person that person is going to die eventually.
-
Well, Sakuya has to get that blood from somewhere. :derp:
And I'm quite sure she wouldn't want to have to donate blood daily to mix into her mistresses' meals, light eaters or not.
My headcanon suspects she does, actually. Wouldn't surprise me if Remilia has a deal with someone for fresh blood.
As PMISS says, Remilia doesn't drain enough to kill or vampirise. It sounds like it's less than a regular blood donation.
-
AFAIK Flan is too... brutal to just drink blood, so she eats human meat (Without knowing this herself, that is).
-
Though Sakuya hasn't made many scary threats since Perfect Cherry Blossom. At least not to my knowledge. Can't remember much of the dialogue from the fighters, but I do know that she hated Tenshi with a passion. But yes, she's mellowed out since then. I suppose that comes from the fact that Sakuya has had more exposure to other humans rather than just youkai whilst living in Gensokyo.
-
They went on a rampage when they first appeared in Gensokyo, lost against powerful youkai, and settled down after agreeing to a contract (*2). The details of this contract are that the youkai will offer them humans from which to feed (*3); in return, the vampires will not attack humans living in Gensokyo.
3: It is said these are humans from the outside world or those whose deaths are of no consequence (suicidal, etc.).
From the PMiSS article on vampires.
So yes, Remilia and Flandre subsist on the blood of humans from outside the border who wander in or who are already going to die anyway.
Seriously, those threats aren't exceptional. Patchouli threatens to turn Marisa and Reimu into vitamins, Mystia wants to eat you, and Reimu threatens to bury Marisa and Alice alive or something like that.
...what? Where does this come from and what does this have to do with anything?
AFAIK Flan is too... brutal to just drink blood, so she eats human meat (Without knowing this herself, that is).
When vampires attack humans, they generally try to take their prey alive so that they can suck its blood afterward, but Flandre has always been fed with cooked dishes, so she doesn't know how to properly attack a human. Whenever she tries to attack a human, she can't control herself and blows them away without leaving a spot of blood.
Perhaps she can't tell that her daily meals are made from living humans.
Her meals look like such harmless foodstuffs as cake and tea, after all...
Flandre's EoSD profile.
So yeah, she doesn't know that her food comes from humans, so when she attacks them she destroys them completely. Sakuya puts meat and blood in her tea and cake without her knowing.
-
...what? Where does this come from and what does this have to do with anything?
The games, and it's regarding Sakuya's threats to Chen/whatever.
-
My headcanon suspects she does, actually. Wouldn't surprise me if Remilia has a deal with someone for fresh blood.
Vampire contract made with Yukari after the vampire invasion in Gensokyo states that youkai can only eat humans from the outside world, which Yukari periodically spirits away into Gensokyo.
Remilia, in one of her winquotes in IAMP, I believe, tells Yukari that she should spirit away more humans to Gensokyo, IE "Bring more food."
EDIT: Squidy beat me to it. :colonveeplusalpha:
-
Oh, oops. I meant there's nothing to indicate she's the rampaging raging ANGRY type of psychopathic killer. IE, the way fandom portrays her.
Never said she wasn't a "perfect and elegant" cold hearted killer (which is also psychopathic, if I have the definition of the word correct, but in an entirely different sense). Fandom however (almost) never portrays her as that. Instead we always see her spazzing out about pad jokes or catching Mei Ling sleeping on the job.
...in fact, fandom seems to stay away from touching the whole "Sakuya murders humans" thing in general for some reason. Probably because it's too grimdark for the Touhou series.
On that tangent, I'm not sure how serious Sakuya was about killing people, given that tons of youkai claim to eat people but that's just posturing. The context of Sakuya's quotes indicates she too might just be posturing (then again, maybe she's serious, too.)
Flandre's profile says her food is "made from living humans". And that they just "look like harmless foodstuffs as cake and tea". This could be interpreted as actual human meat being made to look like harmless foodstuffs, or maybe they just have blood mixed in. It's interpretable either way, I guess, tho IMHO more likely the former interpretation (actual human meat)
In Perfect Memento in the Strict Sense, it's stated that the vampires (presumably Remilia and Flandre) have a contract with the youkai to get humans from the outside world for food, and it's stated these humans dissappear from the outside world "forever" being written off as suicides, etc. There is probably room to believe that the humans are simply drained of a little blood, although me personally in my own interpretation, I believe they actually get killed and Sakuya cooks them up for Flandre (her food is made out of LIVING humans. Fresh meat!) and the rest of the youkai in the SDM. Akyu also states there's no worry about Mei Ling eating you (the human reader) because "her meals are provided by the Scarlet Devil mansion", which I interpret as meaning Mei Ling won't eat human you because she gets plenty of human meat from the Scarlet Devil Mansion.
Perfect Cherry Blossom's prologue also states that youkai chef teams go out to get humans from the outside world (and setting things so it looks like they were suicides, etc) to eat. I'm not sure if Perfect Memento retconned that into the vampire contract, or if the general youkai population of gensokyo gets humans to eat that way, themselves (while also doing that for the vampires too due to the contract), PCB's prologue would thus imply certain other youkai besides just Yukari can come and go from the outside world at will.
Fandom practically never touches on any of that, though. Maybe it's too grimdark for the Touhou series even if it's canon (probably. Again, slightly open to interpretation and translation issues). The fandom is willing to grimdark a lot of Touhou, but cupcakes made out of people and such a human-ish youkai like Mei Ling as an actual human-eater is probably a bit much for a lot of people (tho despite being a very human-ish youkai, it's canonically confirmed Mei Ling herself is fine with eating humans, as shown by her EoSD dialogue, even if she's just joking that the rules should allow her to eat shrine maidens).
....ARGH, lots of people beat me to it.
Oh, forgot to mention. Reimu being greedy is also canon, although like Mei Ling's laziness, the extent is debatable (Me personally, I think she's mainly just greedy to the point where she needs/wants her shrine situation to be improved. Right now almost no one visits and that's probably semi-depressing for her sometimes when she bothers to care about it). It's explicity stated in one of her story paths for UFO that she's going after the treasure ship for the treasure. And of course, you can't really ignore her insistence to Sakuya in IaMP "The offeratory box is over there!" And then in Wild and Horned Hermit Reimu is practically spazzing with glee at the merchandising opportunities that Kanako and Suwako's latest scheme might bring her.
-
There's a story by Stripe Pattern that makes her backstory out to be a serial killer, for those of you into that.
(I prefer the Lunarian Vampire Hunter fanon thing... for some bizarre reason.)
PMISS still has the "youkai teams go to the outside world on occasion", if I recall.
-
Oh, forgot to mention. Reimu being greedy is also canon, although like Mei Ling's laziness, the extent is debatable (Me personally, I think she's mainly just greedy to the point where she needs/wants her shrine situation to be improved. Right now almost no one visits and that's probably semi-depressing for her sometimes when she bothers to care about it). It's explicity stated in one of her story paths for UFO that she's going after the treasure ship for the treasure. And of course, you can't really ignore her insistence to Sakuya in IaMP "The offeratory box is over there!" And then in Wild and Horned Hermit Reimu is practically spazzing with glee at the merchandising opportunities that Kanako and Suwako's latest scheme might bring her.
I have the feeling that Reimu's greedy personality was something of a fleeting trait. It doesn't really rear its head often in canon.
And I dunno, Meiling seems rather enthusiastic about her job (especially in Hisou, geez), so I wouldn't write her off as lazy. I mean PMiSS says she has a scheduled nap time every noon.
-
There's a story by Stripe Pattern that makes her backstory out to be a serial killer, for those of you into that.
(I prefer the Lunarian Vampire Hunter fanon thing... for some bizarre reason.)
PMISS still has the "youkai teams go to the outside world on occasion", if I recall.
I like the vampire hunter theory, too. It makes sense that someone as strongwilled as Sakuya would become a youkai's servant because she was beaten in battle. I also support the 'Sakuya is a lunarian' theory because it would explain why she's so cold to humans. Lunarians see humans as nothing but filthy beings that live in a filthy world, after all.
-
Reimu's greediness is likely meant to be more of a side trait than the full on main character trait that fandom sometimes gives her. I don't see most fandoms do that to her thaaaaat often tho, fortunately.
Mei Ling takes her job seriously. There's no arguing about that, I'd think. It's just that it's canon that she sometimes falls asleep on it (which she does in Hisou, for example). Again, the main debatable part is the extent.
Also, I'm not sure if the scheduled nap at noon is her employer's schedule, or HER schedule (if it's the latter, that'd be pretty funny). Sakuya's advertisement specifically says there aren't supposed to be any breaks for Scarlet Devil Mansion employees, IIRC, tho to what extent that applies to Mei Ling is unknown.
Oh, it's also canon that she gets teased sometimes. Remilia in BAiJR KNOWS there's nothing Mei Ling can do about the flower patterns but orders Mei Ling to fix it anyways for the lolz (at least, that's what Mei Ling claims). Tho that's still no where near the physical abuse fandom sees Mei Ling go through (or worse, "China")
-
Most people seem to think that Eirin also took the Hourai Elixir, thus making her immortal. However, there's no implication at all that she ever took it. Plus, Inaba shows that she is capable of dying. In chapter 7, she said she "glimpsed the other side" when Kaguya almost strangled her with a leek.
-
Yeah, that bothers me. She's just insanely old.
-
Also, Kaguya's rivalry with Mokou doesn't seem to be all that serious in Inaba, but I can get why people like to portray their rivalry in a serious way due to Touhou 8 making it sound like that.
-
People think Eirin took the hourai elixir because one of her spell cards is named that, I believe. What they don't realize is that that spell card is KAGUYA"S Spell card. Kaguya specifically says she's going to help Eirin out and joins Eirin for that spellcard.
......er, I think.
Also, Eirin made the hourai elixir, so some people think she took it because of that. But really, it's only confirmed she made it, not drank it.
Doesn't she visit the netherworld
in the ghost team ending while Kaguya can't due to the hourai elixir, anyways? IIRC.
ZUN actually states in Mokou's profile that her and Kaguya killing each other is their paradise. So Inaba's portrayal of it is probably not too far off. Furthermore, Kaguya and Mokou work together to stop a forest fire that resulted from one of their fights. And Mokou freaks out and feels sad when she thinks Kaguya is leaving/abandoning her in Cage in Lunatic Runagate (tho she eventually comes to terms with how she can still keep living her life in Gensokyo with friends even if Kaguya ever really does leave)
Both Mokou and Kaguya know that they can't die. So killing each other is really more of a past time than anything (and brought some actual excitement to Mokou's life in an otherwise unending hell of loneliness, which would go on to eventually wake Mokou up to being able to make friends again and come to terms with herself as shown by Cage in Lunatic Runagate). Tho they still feel pain and thus it can still be annoying, which is probably the reason for Mokou's generally serious (and annoyed) tone in IN regarding the issue. (tho on a side note, likely mainly for dramatic purposes, almost EVERY touhou character is at their most serious in their first appearance, and is shown in a more mellow light in later games)
-
IIRC, Mokou's profile is something like being excited at the oppurtunity to fight the princess.
I hate "Evil Kaguya looks for ways to mindrape/fuck with Mokou" and vice versa.
-
Well, I do believe Eirin herself states that she keeps her youth with drugs and stuff, not necessarily because of the hourai elixir. Also, Lunarians seem to be immortal by nature, but not all the way. This means yes, they have eternal youth, but they can still be killed. Kaguya, having had the elixir, still has her eternal youth, but now she can't be killed.
-
Doesn't she visit the netherworld
in the ghost team ending while Kaguya can't due to the hourai elixir, anyways? IIRC.
Correct. Yuyuko also politely tries to poison her so she'd stay in the netherworld, something she wouldn't bother with if Eirin had taken the Elixer.
-
Well, I do believe Eirin herself states that she keeps her youth with drugs and stuff, not necessarily because of the hourai elixir. Also, Lunarians seem to be immortal by nature, but not all the way. This means yes, they have eternal youth, but they can still be killed. Kaguya, having had the elixir, still has her eternal youth, but now she can't be killed.
Actually, I believe that ZUN stated somewhere that Lunarians are pretty much buffed up youkai: As durable as one, powerful, can live as long as one, and maybe even smarter then most. To think that lunarians are technically humans too...
-
Yorihime says something in SSIB about how it's the impure earth that makes one become impure and thus prone to mortality in SSiB, IIRC. I don't recall the exact words but it was something like that. However, Eirin's been on earth for a while now and she sure seems fine as ever.
Also, it's stated somewhere (CiLR?) that all the rabbits from the original youkai invasion are long gone by now so presumably they're mortal even on the moon. If I recall correctly
-
I feel utterly demasculated by the indepth Touhou knowledge of people in this topic. Wow. I tried to write a short story once about Yukari until I realised I hadn't a clue how she actually talks. That and other things mean I tend to not write TH fiction.
One of the things that gets me about the series as well: apart from Reimu and Marisa, most of the characters don't have that much to draw upon when you're thinking about them. How much is there about the Aki sisters, for example? They smell tasty and are harvest gods. That's really about it.
-
I feel utterly demasculated by the indepth Touhou knowledge of people in this topic. Wow. I tried to write a short story once about Yukari until I realised I hadn't a clue how she actually talks. That and other things mean I tend to not write TH fiction.
One of the things that gets me about the series as well: apart from Reimu and Marisa, most of the characters don't have that much to draw upon when you're thinking about them. How much is there about the Aki sisters, for example? They smell tasty and are harvest gods. That's really about it.
Read the canon manga, look at the profiles and scripts on Touhou wiki (either of them, but en.touhouwiki.com is updated more often and has less cruft), and definitely read Perfect Momento in Strict Sense.
Or, better yet, play the games. :P
-
I have played the games, but with the English patch on there aren't many characters with a distinctive speaking vocab other than Marisa, Orin and Cirno. I can't tell how accurate it is to the original Japanese since I can read about 10 pieces of hiragana and don't have the foggiest about katagana.
-
Reading the official profiles of the characters on the Touhou Wiki will give you plenty of canon material. DO NOT regard "Fun Facts" as a reliable source - they are often uncited statements that use language such as "Many consider" or "A great deal of fans believe" and so forth.
-
Reading the official profiles of the characters on the Touhou Wiki will give you plenty of canon material. DO NOT regard "Fun Facts" as a reliable source - they are often uncited statements that use language such as "Many consider" or "A great deal of fans believe" and so forth.
aka, "some argue".
Also, read the in-game quotes. (you can read most if not all of them at touhouwiki.net) The fighting games are a great source of character-to-character quotes, that give a good idea of how they interact in canon.
-
Yorihime says something in SSIB about how it's the impure earth that makes one become impure and thus prone to mortality in SSiB, IIRC. I don't recall the exact words but it was something like that. However, Eirin's been on earth for a while now and she sure seems fine as ever.
This may have something to do with Kaguya using her power over eternity. I remember a bit in CiLR about the fact that nothing within Eientei actually changed due to it until they opened up to the rest of Gensokyo. 'Course, I haven't read CiLR in a while.
-
Eientei's weird. Eirin says it technically has no written history, thanks to Kaguya's eternal thing.
-
Eientei's weird. Eirin says it technically has no written history, thanks to Kaguya's eternal thing.
This must drive Keine nuts. :V
-
Eientei's weird. Eirin says it technically has no written history, thanks to Kaguya's eternal thing.
This is very trippy to understand and put to use. If you define time as the direction that entropy moves, then Kaguya can somehow freeze entropy. This means nothing changed inside Eientei (read CiLR for a description of these effects: "food doesn't spoil, etc") during centuries. This would "realistically" mean she, Eirin and anybody else inside would likewise be frozen in time, but that was not the case, so this may be one of the few situations from the canon where the better course is to not think too hard about it.
And speaking of "canon you wish got used more", why the hell is the English fanon selectively translating Koumakan to "Scarlet Devil Mansion", while "House of Eternity" (a kickass name) and "Tower of White Jade" remain in the original japanese?
-
And speaking of "canon you wish got used more", why the hell is the English fanon selectively translating Koumakan to "Scarlet Devil Mansion", while "House of Eternity" (a kickass name) and "Tower of White Jade" remain in the original japanese?
Because the Scarlet Devil Mansion belongs to a group of mainly Western characters while the other two are more Japanese.
-
And speaking of "canon you wish got used more", why the hell is the English fanon selectively translating Koumakan to "Scarlet Devil Mansion", while "House of Eternity" (a kickass name) and "Tower of White Jade" remain in the original japanese?
Maybe because the SDM is more western than those other locations? :derp:
EDIT: NINJA'D, DAMMIT!
-
To sum it up, don't try to rationalize Gensokyo, the Hakurei Clan and Yukari did it.
Annoying Rinnosuke needs moar, though I'm (SURPRISINGLY) fond of his fanon depictions of him being a pervert/troll/pervertroll. PMISS has a throwaway line about youkai and humans avoiding him due to his "personality".
-
I'm more a fan of "Rinnosuke, the exasperated shopkeeper". Seeing all who he has to put up with, it's hardly surprising.
-
I'm more a fan of "Rinnosuke, the exasperated shopkeeper". Seeing all who he has to put up with, it's hardly surprising.
I like this interpretation, too. I was never very fond of the MANosuke thing. It's not a good interpretation of Kourin as that is not his personality at all. It's good for the occasional joke, but that's it.
-
I'm more a fan of "Rinnosuke, the exasperated shopkeeper". Seeing all who he has to put up with, it's hardly surprising.
Thing is, he's canonically not much of a shopkeeper, anyway. Canon Rinnosuke strikes me more like of these excentric and anti-social hoarders that live into houses filled with junk they gather. Yeah, his house happens to be nominally a store and he ocasionally sells part of his hoard, but his stories tell time and time again how he doesn't like to part with useful merchandise. And again, he's not a people's person. Marisa (probably due to their shared story) merrily ignores this and imposes on him on a daily basis. Reimu (probably following Marisa's example) does the same.
-
Thing is, he's canonically not much of a shopkeeper, anyway. Canon Rinnosuke strikes me more like of these excentric and anti-social hoarders that live into houses filled with junk they gather. Yeah, his house happens to be nominally a store and he ocasionally sells part of his hoard, but his stories tell time and time again how he doesn't like to part with useful merchandise. And again, he's not a people's person. Marisa (probably due to their shared story) merrily ignores this and imposes on him on a daily basis. Reimu (probably following Marisa's example) does the same.
Yes, hence his exasperation. Rinnosuke's nature is much like that of a human from the outside world, despite being half-youkai. He doesn't solve incidents with magic and danmaku; he runs a shop. This makes him relatable to the reader. He's more like one of us than others in Gensokyo. That his reaction to daily visits is exasperation, to me, is great comedy. He's living the dream, but to him, it's a hassle.
-
Like I said earlier, the fandom should make use of his shotgun umbrella and also give his pet cat spotlight.
-
They do.
Mph, am I the only one who takes Inaba only partially canonically? I mean, gag manga and all.
Back on track: If anything, he's that weirdo running the antiques shop out at the edges of town.
-
Events in Inaba are referenced in Hisoutenko win quotes here and there. However, it's true that ZUN didn't actually write the characters, so at best you can think of the characters as "not exactly the way ZUN might have portrayed them, because ZUN wasn't the one actually writing them."
ZUN was, however, responsible for suggesting general story arcs and which characters should appear next (I believe he stated this in that same interview where he stated he generally tried not to intervene much to give the authors more freedom for comedy)
Thus, the way I see it, the general events of Inaba can be considered canon, although the personalities depicted wherein are more... loose form for the sake of comedy and may or may not be how ZUN himself would have depicted them.
I imagine that line about youkai and humans avoiding Rinnosuke is because he's kinda socially awkward. For one thing, he runs a shop yet is hesitant to actually sell his merchandise. To youkai, he's probably too sane and level-headed (IE, too human). To humans, he's probably too loopy and wierd (IE, too youkai-ish). Curiousities of Lotus Asia in general shows this pretty well, I think. Really, the guy's pretty darn strange from a human perspective, yet not as strange as the dennizons of Gensokyo that we're used to (youkai and the wierdos that regularly deal with them like Marisa and Reimu)
-
Yeah, he's pretty out there as far as both human and youkai are concerned.
But on a semi-related note, among an old group of friends who were also touhou fans, I was referred to as "The Rinnosuke", due to being an avid collector of various bits and bobs, and just generally being a lot like him.
But back on topic, I'd say the canon Rinnosuke is much more tolerable than the fanon one.
-
Fanon Rinnosuke is amusing to watch, however.
I wish the Watatsuki sisters actually showed up more often. I'm fully aware fandom hates them for "being mary sues", barring Yukari having the last laugh in the end.
-
Well, when you consider that one of 'em(can't tell the two apart really, no matter how hard I try.) split the master spark in two with just a sword, yeah.
And then there's the fact that they basically beat down everyone the fans love, that's bound to garner some hate.
And then there's the non-canon fact that they're hell to fight in Touhoumon/Puppet Play. I should know this, I've gone against them with type advantage, and several levels higher than them, and still got my ass handed to me.
But that last bit's for a different thread, no?
But it fits in with what I'm saying nonetheless.
-
The Watatsuki sisters are kinda.... jerks, too. All those speeches about Lunarians being superior and everything kinda makes you just wanna wring their necks, IMHO. (that said, they can be nice people, like how they were really forgiving to Reissen 2 and purposefully don't pursue Eirin. They're just really stuck up when it comes to Earthlings, and this was almost positively due to the culture they were raised in)
-
I wish the Watatsuki sisters actually showed up more often. I'm fully aware fandom hates them for "being mary sues", barring Yukari having the last laugh in the end.
I like how fans brand the Watatsuki's as Mary sues but, then completely ignore the fact that, oh...let's say Yukari, is someone who can break rules of reality when she feels like and can pretty much do anything she wants or will ever want. I won't even get started on Reimu, because it will be too easy.
-
I like how fans brand the Watatsuki's as Mary sues but, then completely ignore the fact that, oh...let's say Yukari, is someone who can break rules of reality when she feels like and can pretty much do anything she wants or will ever want. I won't even get started on Reimu, because it will be too easy.
I love how Yukari lost the war against an army of what could be insects and just one of the sisters.
-
I love how Yukari lost the war against an army of what could be insects and just one of the sisters.
If you're referring to the 1st Lunar War (which I'm pretty sure you are), didn't Yukari just let the youkai go up there and get their asses kicked while she sat back at Gensokyo just to say 'And what have we learned~' when they got back?
-
Over a thousand years ago, Yukari organized an army of youkai and led them in an invasion of the Moon. The youkai were subsequently routed by the Lunarians, who possessed superior technology and magic, and forced to retreat to Earth. Since that time, no youkai have attempted to expand their territory beyond Gensokyo. While some speculate that Yukari organized the invasion out of selfish hunger for territory and power, others believe she did it to teach the youkai a lesson about starting wars of conquest; namely, that it was a bad idea.
-
I like how fans brand the Watatsuki's as Mary sues but, then completely ignore the fact that, oh...let's say Yukari, is someone who can break rules of reality when she feels like and can pretty much do anything she wants or will ever want. I won't even get started on Reimu, because it will be too easy.
You do realize that beyond conspiracy theories of her not using her full powers despite having reasons to do so, her powers are explicitly shown to have bounds in SSiB and probably other places as well, and she herself explicitly says in that one short story written by ZUN that Shikieiki could whupp her ass with ease.
Yukari being treated as the most powerful being in any fictional work ever gets on my nerves, really.
-
And stuff.
I knew there was 'to teach them a lesson' in there somewhere but, then memory decayed with age. This is what I get for relying on a memory that kills itself every so often and doesn't recollect properly.
You do realize that beyond conspiracy theories of her not using her full powers despite having reasons to do so, her powers are explicitly shown to have bounds in SSiB and probably other places as well, and she herself explicitly says in that one short story written by ZUN that Shikieiki could whupp her ass with ease.
Yukari being treated as the most powerful being in any fictional work ever gets on my nerves, really.
The above I remember.
It's the fact that fans like to place her as the most powerful thing ever is what had me making the connection to the "lol Watatsukis are mary sues". It was basically my way of bringing up a 'pot calling the kettle black' situation. Sure the Watatsukis are called 'mary sues' but look where Yukari's often placed.
-
Yukari's also never depicted wiping the floor with the main playable protagonists of the series. Sure, her implied powerlevel is over 9000 or whatever, but when was the last time she was shown actually defeating Reimu? Or Marisa? Perfect Memento and her official profiles make it clear that even when she loses, she acts like she's won (which ticks everyone off) implying that Yukari's never really trying when she loses, but Mary Sues generally... well, ACTUALLY win (as opposed to always lose, even if on purpose).
That and if we're compariing the mary sueness of Yukari vs the sisters... well, Silent Sinner had Yukari surrendering to Yorihime because she (according to Yukari, at least) had no chance against Yorihime in a fight. If Yukari's a Mary Sue, what does that make the character that Yukari surrenders to because she (so she says) doesn't stand a chance against as? The... um... Mary Sue Deluxe?
Well, that's just from a canon perspective. From a fandom perspective, a Mary Sue is typically a self-insertious character that all the other characters love and worship. So IMHO the fandom doesn't really Mary-Sue-ize Yukari that much because typically in fandom stories, every character hates Yukari. (yea, the fandom would have to be pretty bad to screw that one up, since Yukari being disliked by everyone is one of the most glaringly obvious and emphasized things in Touhou canon works about her)
(personal note: I'm not particularly bitter about that, myself, despite being a Yukari fan. Yorihime being invincible-ish is a necessary plot device for several things in the history of Gensokyo and Yukari, anyways, like those "hopeless boss fights" in RPGs. If the Lunarians weren't nigh invincible, Yukari wouldn't have been able to take advantage of that fact for some of her schemes. But taking SSiB by itself tho and... yea, Yorihime does look a bit Mary Sue-ish in her power)
On a side note, the "backstory" section of Yukari's section in the wiki isn't a word for word statement taken from any official source, by the way. The main actual canon statement regarding the war is from Perfect Memento.
Although she went in with an army of impudent youkai, they were crushed by the Moon's advanced weaponry.
It is believed because of that incident, youkai usually do not choose to attack outside their territory.
Sadly, Perfect Memento (nor any other source) doesn't say WHY Yukari invaded the moon. We do know that Yukari herself personally went, and that, for the most part, it seems the war resulted in the youkai choosing to not attack outside their territory.
The main question is if that was the intended effect. Fandom generally assumes that Yukari did this on purpose (IE, invaded the moon to get the youkai to stop attacking outside their territory), but it's never explicitly stated anywhere in the canon this was the case (tho it certainly is a valid speculation, and one that I personally believe is the case, myself). Also, in Cage in Lunatic Runagate, Yukari (apparently) reveals to Ran that she went to the moon by herself long ago (and is implied to be the first time she went to the moon. IE, before her invasion with the youkai army) and realized no invasion to the moon could ever win. Despite this, history shows she invaded the moon with an army anyways anyways. Logic would thus state that she never intended on winning in that first invasion because she knew she couldn't win.
...of course, that still doesn't answer the question of if she could have won if she tried. It just tells us that she knew (or at least believed she knew) she couldn't win yet invaded the moon anyways. Well, the lunarians have plenty of ways to nullify her abilities (such as the rope Yorihime ties her up with that's so thick and some other technobabble that you can't pass through via boundaries)
Yukari does seem pretty mad about the whole thing in SSiB (tho it's hard to tell how mad when she was pretending to be angry half the time. Angry Yukari = adorable, btw) and wants "revenge", however, it does seem that the whole 'revenge" she's shooting for is more "for the principal of the thing", so it doesn't necessarily contradict the idea that she lost on purpose (or rather, invaded knowing that she couldn't win on purpose). The fact that her entire revenge was basically just one fat trollicious prank seems to support that idea, IMHO.
-
You do realize that beyond conspiracy theories of her not using her full powers despite having reasons to do so, her powers are explicitly shown to have bounds in SSiB and probably other places as well, and she herself explicitly says in that one short story written by ZUN that Shikieiki could whupp her ass with ease.
Yukari being treated as the most powerful being in any fictional work ever gets on my nerves, really.
I have the same problem with this as well. People like to talk as if she's the no. 1 most power fictional character ever created, be it TV shows, anime, manga, movies, video games, or novels. I do agree that she is powerful, but she can't be that powerful, can she? I'm sure that most Marvel and DC Comics characters can easily go to town with her.
-
If anything, Marvel and DC Comics characters are the ones that are overpowered and can easily go to town with her.
Captain America aint got shit on my gap hags.
-
And then...MORE stuff.
Okay so, tl;dr, I fucked up in my assumptions about Yukari being a mary sue.
Captain America aint got shit on my gap hags.
Off topic but, what WAS his power again? It's something I've wondered ever since they started showing commercials of that Captain America movie.
-
iirc he was like a sick dude or something who keeps his power (or just got it, my memory of this is fuzzy) via a syringe injection as a test subject.
-
Imagine Batman, but without all those fancy gadgets. Plus, he got his strength from a serum injection while Batman got them from intense physical training.
-
This must drive Keine nuts. :V
Speaking of the were-hakutaku, I want to see more of the intelligent and strong Keine. Not the Mokou-obsessed caving freak that the fandom sometimes turn her into. And what is with everyone being convinced that she's a bovine? Apart from the horns, she looks nothing like a cow. It's basically Fan Dumb and it drives me nuts.
-
Speaking of the were-hakutaku, I want to see more of the intelligent and strong Keine. Not the Mokou-obsessed caving freak that the fandom sometimes turn her into. And what is with everyone being convinced that she's a bovine? Apart from the horns, she looks nothing like a cow. It's basically Fan Dumb and it drives me nuts.
Full agreement on the first part, but as for the second (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakutaku)...
-
Speaking of the were-hakutaku, I want to see more of the intelligent and strong Keine. Not the Mokou-obsessed caving freak that the fandom sometimes turn her into. And what is with everyone being convinced that she's a bovine? Apart from the horns, she looks nothing like a cow. It's basically Fan Dumb and it drives me nuts.
Indeed, I hate it when they distort Keine so.
And the cow thing I find hilarious. :V
-
Full agreement on the first part, but as for the second (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakutaku)...
Okay, I stand corrected, but I still find the joke annoying. It downgrades a very respectable character.
-
Also standing on agreement with the Keine depiction. While we're on the subject of Keine, let's not forget the depiction of EX-Keine being twisted into a serial CAVE-ist of all things (although they might have eased up on that over the years).
-
CAVE-ist
YOUKAI! WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION?
By the way, where the heck did the whole caving gag come from? It just seemed to pop up out of nowhere.
-
YOUKAI! WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION?
By the way, where the heck did the whole caving gag come from? It just seemed to pop up out of nowhere.
Blame 2chan and google translate. :V
-
I'd like to see more of this supposed "Bubbly Sakuya" that she's supposed to be when not around her mistress.
-
Okay, I stand corrected, but I still find the joke annoying. It downgrades a very respectable character.
Humor, like a particularly annoying news reporter, doesn't care about how respectable someone is or how classy they are. Instead, it only sees what traits it can taunt or expand for its own purposes.
In other words, dude, don't take it so seriously. It's a joke about a fictional character, and certainly not the worst one out there. :V
I'd like to see more of this supposed "Bubbly Sakuya" that she's supposed to be when not around her mistress.
Wait, what? When is she bubbly when she's not around Remilia?
-
Humor, like a particularly annoying news reporter, doesn't care about how respectable someone is or how classy they are. Instead, it only sees what traits it can taunt or expand for its own purposes.
In other words, dude, don't take it so seriously. It's a joke about a fictional character, and certainly not the worst one out there. :V
I know, but they do tend to get quite obnoxious. It's like hearing the same joke over and over and over and over again. The flavor of the humor fades away like chewed bubble gum.
-
Wait, what? When is she bubbly when she's not around Remilia?
I thought I read it in one of the profiles on the Touhou wiki, but it turns out I was mistaken.
While she can be surprisingly careless at times, bubbliness is not mentioned.
A bubbly Sakuya would be pretty awesome, though.
-
I thought I read it in one of the profiles on the Touhou wiki, but it turns out I was mistaken.
While she can be surprisingly careless at times, bubbliness is not mentioned.
A bubbly Sakuya would be pretty awesome, though.
It would add a moe factor to Sakuya. :3
-
Also, remember the Sisters fought them in a Spellcard Duel, of COURSE Reimu couldn't win. And
Yuyuko and Youmu spend a month dicking around in the Lunarian Capital without anyone noticing.
we need more cho-marisa
RE: Keine - Am I the only one who thinks Hakutaku look like the things at the end of the Ghostbusters when ZUUL comes around? Also, fandom leaves her "strong teacher sort" intact, even in grimderp works.
-
It's been brought up before, but I will mention it again-- Chen actually doing what is expected of a nekomata. True, PCB says that her powers are somewhat limited, but the standard set of nekomata abilities does include things like throwing around ghostly fireballs and stealing the fresh corpses of dead people to dance with them like puppets on strings and leaping over them to create zombies.
Not all of this has to be used, of course, but it's still quite the contradiction to her fanon CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN diabeetus-inducing persona. iirc, a CYOA on TH-P once had Chen as the main antagonist, and it was quite a nice change from the usual.
-
I don't mind the HNGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH from KCY-Chen
(I suffer from teeny-tiny voice syndrome?!), but yeah, I'm honestly surprised fandom didn't turn her into the next Tewi. (A few fanworks have her collaborating with Orin to troll people, though.)
Canon Shikeiki means well, even if types like her I tend to ignore in real life. Yes, I know, gag manga ruining her depictions, but still. It's gotten to the point where I've run into a few people who honestly think she's a douche who sends people to Hell for arbitrary reasons.
(Also, her being shorter than Komachi and the jokes about it need to DIAF)
-
Canon Shikeiki means well, even if types like her I tend to ignore in real life. Yes, I know, gag manga ruining her depictions, but still. It's gotten to the point where I've run into a few people who honestly think she's a douche who sends people to Hell for arbitrary reasons.
(Also, her being shorter than Komachi and the jokes about it need to DIAF)
Pretty much what I said. :V
-
Canon Shikeiki means well, even if types like her I tend to ignore in real life. Yes, I know, gag manga ruining her depictions, but still. It's gotten to the point where I've run into a few people who honestly think she's a douche who sends people to Hell for arbitrary reasons.
PMiSS outright states that she uses her spare time, which could be used to rest up and relax (lord knows she needs to blow off some steam, being a Yama sounds incredibly stressful to begin with), to go out into the world of the living and practically beg them to change their ways so that she won't have to send them to Hell when they die. She goes to the extreme (for her) of exaggerating their bad deeds to get them to change-- given how moralistic she is, she must really really REALLY not want to send them to Hell. And Marisa's scenario in PoFV has her saying "Hell exists not to punish sinners, but to ensure that nobody sins in the first place. I am here so that everybody realizes that."
That said, I imagine that if Shiki ever learned to lighten up, she might offhandedly "sentence" someone living to preemptive Hell just to scare them into doing the right thing. :P
As for things like height/bust size jealousy/etc, I don't see how they would apply to her, really. She's waaaaaaaaaaaay too focused on saving people from themselves to give much thought to it. Caring about physical appearance seems like something she would not only ignore, but actively disdain, since it takes time away from the more important things she deals with every day, and for being an impermanent, trivial matter.
-
It doesn't even have any basis in canon, the ending screen shows she's taller than Komachi (granted, Komachi's leaning on her, but whatever). Granted, I think some people wreck her interpretation because of some weird moralistic difference in Eastern/Western values (overthinking, dohoho. People do something similar to Byakuren, painting her as a Darwinist Nazi because the Japanese frown on making the strong and weak equal. Someone told me she didn't like Shikieiki because she makes the punishment disproportionate, but I need to tell her that's not canon.)
Anyway.
Am I the only one who doesn't see Letty as much of a mother figure? BAIJR made her sound like some sort of slacker...
-
Am I the only one who doesn't see Letty as much of a mother figure? BAIJR made her sound like some sort of slacker...
I like slacker Letty.
Speaking of, I see Letty and Cirno's relationship not as that of mother and daughter, sisters, or lovers. I see it more like a comically abusive sensei who just want her idiot student to learn fast. Or something like that. :V
-
I see them more as "Dumb Idiot and the poor bitch who has to deal with her shit".
-
As far as I can tell from canon, Letty is just there and Cirno is just there and they don't interact all that much. Except for Letty wondering why people think they do.
Also about Yamaxanadu's height, it might not be that she's short but that Komachi is just that tall. I see her, Kanako, and Yuugi as the tallest in Gensokyo.
-
Re: the Watatsuki sisters
Am I the only one not really bothered about their extreme power? Moon civilization is shown time and time again as superior to the main Earth civilization (the one with assault rifles and nukes). They're ancient beyond measure, masters of magic AND science, are all functionally immortal (except they still die from wounds, etc). As strong as Reimu, Marisa and Remilia are, I think they can't avoid but to look like amateurs near the handful of serious lunarians.
-
I see them more as "Dumb Idiot and the poor bitch who has to deal with her shit".
That's a cold (no pun intended) and rather harsh way of seeing them.
-
Re: the Watatsuki sisters
Am I the only one not really bothered about their extreme power? Moon civilization is shown time and time again as superior to the main Earth civilization (the one with assault rifles and nukes). They're ancient beyond measure, masters of magic AND science, are all functionally immortal (except they still die from wounds, etc). As strong as Reimu, Marisa and Remilia are, I think they can't avoid but to look like amateurs near the handful of serious lunarians.
Not to mention PMISS states they had a Lunar Expo. They had stuff like miniguns that could be fired with one hand and miniature nukes. And this is outdated tech.
@Savory - More in the comedy gag sense. You know, "Straight Woman" being Letty and all.
-
@Savory - More in the comedy gag sense. You know, "Straight Woman" being Letty and all.
The fandom puts them in a more favorable relationship if not a close one.
-
I know. I don't mind the Letty-being-a-parent depiction, but BAIJR's permanently corrupted my image of her.
-
I know. I don't mind the Letty-being-a-parent depiction, but BAIJR's permanently corrupted my image of her.
Contrary to prior belief, Letty isn't showing her hate for Cirno. She was merely comparing the powers of her and Cirno, then states her pride as a youkai that manipulates the cold.
-
Yuyuko and the hunger jokes. Her hunger may be canon, but these jokes make her seem dumb and simple.
What about all the other stuff in IN beside her hunger? What about the fact that she figured out the situation in IN by herself as well her journey in SSiB?
Yukari gets to be the mastermind who knows everything while Yuyuko never gets the chance. :(
Also Koishi. She isn't insane or severely mentally retarded just because she has an ability that deals with the subconsciousness.
-
Yeah, I'm tired of the Psycho Koishi stuff.
Yuyuko also figures out Ten Desires, iirc.
@Savory - No, I wasn't meaning to say Letty hates her. She's just like "don't compare me to Cirno".
-
Yeah, Koishi isn't nuts. Or a giant bag of angst, for that matter. As far as I can tell, she just...um, how do I say it...doesn't think as much anymore. She's carefree, curious, and acts on pure impulse. Also, Koishi has her own pets, but we never hear about that! Instead it's always crazy cat lady Satori...
-
Really? The common fanon depiction of Satori is depressed, a snarker, some sort of bizarre pervert, or all three.
-
I've always seen satori as a lonely snarker, there's something about her expression when she says her famous line that just screams snarker.
-
I don't see how someone with mind ready abilities can't be snarky all the time. Also helps that I view her as the only sane man in the underground and they're usually snarky as well.
-
I see Satori as the cool, quiet girl who hardly ever changes expression.
-
Okay, I'm putting together some of the characters that are portrayed very different from canon (taken from my knowledge, Touhou Wiki, and what I read here), not to mention the differences between both interpretations.
Meiling
Canon: Average, competent, gets respect, takes afternoon siestas
Fanon: Incompetent, likes to sleep, Sakuya's punching bag
Tenshi
Canon: Dislikes boredom, loves to fight, spoiled
Fanon: Loves to get beaten up
Kaguya
Canon: Ditzy, anxious to do various things, cheerful, gets worked up when doing something she wants to do
Fanon: Lazy, NEET, obsessed with video games and the Internet
Komachi
Canon: Serious with work
Fanon: Snorlax
Letty
Canon: Doesn't care about Cirno and doesn't even want to be compared to her
Fanon: Motherly relationship towards her
Alice
Canon: Calm, collected, kind, looks and acts cold, not the conversation type
Fanon: Tsundere
Koakuma
Canon: Mischievous
Fanon: Patchouli's obedient servant (it might be the same case in canon)
Yuyuko
Canon: Easy-going, smart, full of wisdom and insight, whimsical
Fanon: Snorlax (minus the sleeping part), Mystia's worst nightmare
Yuuka
Canon: Likes to tease and mess with people
Fanon: Ultimate Sadistic Creature
Koishi
Canon: Cheerful, curious, hyperactive (I think...)
Fanon: Psycho
-
Komachi
Canon: Serious with work
Fanon: Snorlax
Actually, as I said before, Komachi is depicted as very lazy in canon as well.
She tends to slack off from work a lot, but never acts bad-natured about it.
It's just instead of sleeping she just procrastinates a lot until:
1) Someone interferes with the souls of the dead (SWR(?), Wild and Horned Hermit)
2) Her boss catches her and forces her to work.
3) It suits her.
That's how I see it anyway.
-
I dunno, the "reads minds" things screams "she's a snarker" more.
-
Actually, as I said before, Komachi is depicted as very lazy in canon as well.
It's just instead of sleeping she just procrastinates a lot until:
1) Someone interferes with the souls of the dead (SWR(?), Wild and Horned Hermit)
2) Her boss catches her and forces her to work.
3) It suits her.
That's how I see it anyway.
I think a better way to put it is that she is serious when there are things to be done, whereas in fanon, she doesn't have a care for anything at all besides sleeping.
Still, thanks for the clarification!
-
I was going to ask: why has no one brought up Mima? And then I went to her Wiki page (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Mima).
If you go by official sources only - not speculation, fandom, or conjecture - there's not actually a lot to go by, canonically speaking. Her official profiles are very short and vague. What we know is she's apparently gone from being an evil spirit to being "more humanish than human", isn't evil anymore, and now lives at Hakurei Shrine where she "enjoys her days making fun of Reimu".
Now this, to me, while not giving us a lot of information, still has the potential for comedy gold. A former opponent, on many occasions, who's now mellowed out and moved in with Reimu, where she spends her time mocking and teasing her? It's like a sitcom or something. I'd read/watch this any day.
-
Well, the game scripts do give a little more to go by, (i.e. she also has a huge ego and penchant for lying), but it basically boils down to what you already said.
And yes, the dynamic between Reimu and Mima has a lot of potential for hilarity. :3
-
I'm of the opinion that Mima's personality has been split between Marisa and Yukari. Yukari already seems to be the figure that hangs around Reimu and teases her, and Marisa is the huge-ego'd, habitual liar. It would seem redundant, in my opinion, to have her around.
-
I don't think so. Mima was pretty influential back in the day. xD
-
I don't think so. Mima was pretty influential back in the day. xD
What does that have to do with today, which I think is what Squid is talking about?
-
What does that have to do with today, which I think is what Squid is talking about?
She's left an impact that will never fade. Sure Yukari and Marisa might have taken her place in terms of personality, but who says they're the only two that have to act as such?
-
She's left an impact that will never fade. Sure Yukari and Marisa might have taken her place in terms of personality, but who says they're the only two that have to act as such?
^ This
-
She's left an impact that will never fade. Sure Yukari and Marisa might have taken her place in terms of personality, but who says they're the only two that have to act as such?
Because part of the reason I think Touhou characters are liked so much is that their personalities are all very different, even though there are dozens of them by now. Having a character who acts like two other characters at once would feel redundant.
EDIT: Particularly when Marisa has taken up most of Mima's personality. They're almost exactly the same by now, from what I can tell.
-
Because part of the reason I think Touhou characters are liked so much is that their personalities are all very different, even though there are dozens of them by now. Having a character who acts like two other characters at once would feel redundant.
EDIT: Particularly when Marisa has taken up most of Mima's personality. They're almost exactly the same by now, from what I can tell.
Has Mima's popularity faded as a result?
-
Yea, Windows Marisa ended up taking most of Mima's personality traits. Mima's a bit redundant today, with Marisa having Mima's most prominent personality traids and Reimu's shrine infested by other youkai to tease Reimu as it is. Which is one likely reason ZUN never brought her back (tho it would have been nice if there was some explanation still. We know he hasn't forgotten her existance since she appeared on a music CD cover and since she was briefly referenced in CoLA)
-
Has Mima's popularity faded as a result?
Perhaps not, but tell me, how many fanworks have you seen involving Mima interacting with Windows Marisa or Yukari where everyone's personalities remain intact? I do not check fanwork religiously at all, much less anything about Mima, but I can't think of a single one that comes to mind. I think that would prove my point.
Besides, just because someone is popular and people clamor and shout to have them come back does not mean that doing so would be beneficial to the storyline. Take Sakuya, for example. I am a huge fan of Sakuya. However, I accept that PoFV was a good closing point for her story, and while I really would like her to return for one of the shooters, I can accept that she doesn't have a whole lot left to develop her character. Meanwhile, Sanae still has loads she needs to come to grips to, such as getting used to how things work in Gensokyo in the first place, and therefore she should stay in the games so her issues can be resolved.
I think the same thing is the case with Mima. She has had her part in the story so far, and there are other characters who need some time.
-
I agree with you, but it would certainly be nice for her to return. Whether she does or not is not for me to say or to complain about. ZUN knows what's good for the plot, so if he brings her back, awesome! If he doesn't, well, it sucks but whatever. We still got a whole other cast of awesome characters. Besides, who says people don't change over time? Mima could have a personality that's totally different from the one she used to have.
-
Mima could have a personality that's totally different from the one she used to have.
If her personality was completely different, would she be Mima anymore? Say, even those characters whose personalities have changed still retain some aspects of who they used to be (eg. Marisa).
-
If her personality was completely different, would she be Mima anymore? Say, even those characters whose personalities have changed still retain some aspects of who they used to be (eg. Marisa).
Well, I guess I worded it wrong. I meant that she could have a different personality, but not drastically different. Like say Alice who was, in my opinion, the one who had the more drastic personality change from PC-98 to Windows, but she still remained Alice. That's the kind of change I meant. Different, but not so that she stops being Mima.
-
Meanwhile, Sanae still has loads she needs to come to grips to, such as getting used to how things work in Gensokyo in the first place, and therefore she should stay in the games so her issues can be resolved.
Now THIS is an excellent point. I hated, hated, hated Sanae, based on her dialogue in UFO (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Undefined_Fantastic_Object/Translation/Sanae_A%27s_Scenario) (yes, that's Sanae A - Sanae B was also like this, just to a lesser degree). She was all "Destroy all youkai graaarrrrr!!!" which, apart from being racist, was also pretty one dimensional and uninteresting. However, in her dialogue in Ten Desires (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ten_Desires/Translation/Sanae%27s_Scenario), she still takes issue with youkai, but she's ... calmer, more at ease, more grown up, you could say.
Could our Sanae be mellowing out? Is she maturing, and becoming used to life in Gensokyo after all? I have to say, she intrigues me more.
-
I don't see Marisa as Mima-ish. From what I've seen of Mima, she strikes me more as Yukari.
-
Mima seems like a mix of Yukari tbh. Mature, Yet foolish. Powerful, Yet was easily overcome.
-
Kanako.
Canonically, a... I wouldn't say conflicted individual, necessarily, since she doesn't seem to manifest much self-doubt-- she strikes me as a confident sort, even if a lot of it is based on leaps of faith-- but I would say that she's adopted some stances that seem internally inconsistent. She's a goddess of war who "loves industrial revolutions", but she once originally lost her power as a goddess precisely because of people placing their faith in science over religion. Daring, definitely-- coming to Gensokyo was a gamble, but it paid off. Ambitious, for sure. And ultimately a benevolent sort, I think. Her MoF profile puts it best, methinks:
"Along with becoming an object of worship, Kanako was also accepted as a playmate of the youkai. Feasts were held almost every night.
Actually, to play together was what gods wished for. Festivals were venues for humans and gods to play together. By forgetting about everyday life and coming together to play, gods and humans gained the feeling of solidarity within a community. Even if the humans were exchanged for youkai, it was the same.
This was exactly the kind of faith Kanako was wishing for."
And then in UFO, she encourages Sanae to "Destroy all youkai graaarrrrr!!!", as Ammy put it. Talk about mixed messages!
Fanon? She gets ignored, big time. If she shows up, it's as Sanae's overprotective mother-goddess, which is not a great leap of logic for someone who's a warrior goddess-- but I can't really think of any stories off the top of my head that have her as the protagonist, or even come close to exploring her issues. I think she's a fascinating character. I'd like to see her show up in fandom more often. I want to see how this woman thinks, and her justifications for her apparently contradictory personality traits (beyond "ZUN was drunk when he wrote it").
-
I've seen Kanako be a murderous schemer in grimdark works, like murdering Reimu to get Sanae in her role. (Granted, that story was probably a trollfic and the author is a known guro addict). Probably the snake motif.
-
Both Suwako and Kanako are sometimes portrayed in fandom the same as how Ran is: perverted pedophiles. It's more disturbing for the former since she and Sanae are related.
And that kind of stuff creeps me out.
-
???
Well, good thing this thread's about CANON then.
-
???
Well, good thing this thread's about CANON then.
so kanako isnt an incestual god? i thought it was as canon as sonic 06 in the sonic timeli
oh
But anyways, Who exactly is Youmu in canon? Is she timid, Is she shy, I really dont know as I've never played PCB. However I see her often in fanons as the only person Yuyuko teases, and this to an extreme extent. I'd like the see the more canon versioins of yuyuko and youmu in canon, tbh.
-
I'd like the see the more canon versioins of yuyuko and youmu in canon, tbh.
Yo dawg.
In the games, Youmu is the chivalrous type. However in Oriental Sacred Palace, she's shown to be quite frightful, stating that she's "not good with scary things". So take that however you may.
-
Kanako.
I love Kanako. I was considering writing something about her forever ago, since so many people seem to dislike her around here.
-
I like Kanako a lot too. And I'd like to see her compassion get played up a little more. Most of the time when she does show up, it's all about the Goddess or Warrior part, which is understandable being a Goddess of War. But she comes of cold hearted holier than thou in most of those. They seem to forget that even though Kanako came in and took Suwako's land and goddessness or whatever, she didn't banish or kill or do anything to Suwako. She let her stay there. And now she is pushing for a industrial revelution and in Ruro's quip, she wants to be viewed as an equal.
-
Hell yeah, Kanako is amazing. I knew I liked her after reading the very same passage that Sakana quoted.
But if Kanako is growing to dislike youkai, and Sanae is mellowing out towards them ... could we be seeing the student emerging to take over where the master left off? I agree, Kanako has a great deal of potential, in particular with regards to her relationships with Sanae and Suwako.
Speaking of Suwako, there's a character I never really cared for. To be perfectly honest, this is mostly because of her design. I just find that hat to be the stupidest, most last-minute accessory ever. I'd love to see a canonical portrayal that fleshes out her personality more, going beyond "happy go lucky me" and whatnot.
-
Well, Yuyuko does tease Youmu canonically. However, it's not "lol lets make youmu a butt monkey for the lulz." Usually, there's a lesson to be learned in the process. Youmu is at once both the dead serious, infinitely devoted samurai, and the classically moe clueless and inexperienced girl. So you end up with things like her chapter in CoLA, or her fighting game scenarios.
As for Kanako, I don't think the "raaaagh smite teh youkais" is anything personal. I see it as more of having to do with being a god of war. Like any other god or youkai, she gets her strength from belief. And what does a god of war do to get people to believe in her? Admittedly, these were entirely the wrong people to take that approach to.
-
"Lady Kanako is telling me to master youkai hunting like they do." It seems more to me that Kanako wants Sanae to hunt youkai to become more like the other main characters, instead of growing to dislike them. Of course, I would set apart the mountain youkai from the others in the first place, so there's a sort of justification in Kanako encouraging Sanae to "hunt youkai that do bad things to people". But then Sanae gets caught up in "youkai hunting" and ends up just attacking every youkai she sees or something.
Personally I believe that Sanae's enthusiasm for youkai hunting is towards the whole spell card rules thing and not actual extermination. In Sanae B's scenario she more or less mentions that she's not exterminating any youkai for real, so it's probably the same in SanaeA.
-
The way i see it, Youmu's brave, unless it involves spooky things.
Fighting a rampaging Oni? She'd do that if Yuyuko asked. Take a Master Spark head on? Same story.
But if it involves going somewhere known to be spooky, then she's not going to be as likely.
See, she's somewhat afraid of ghosts, despite having one for a boss, and working with them every day.
I think it's just the ones in Hakugyoukurou and Higan that she's not worried about, it's any she might find by surprise OUTSIDE of those places that'd spook her more than anything.
Plus, like Sophilia said earlier, she's quite inexperienced in a lot of things. And everyone loves her for it. (I happen to know a guy who's a massive Youmu fanboy in fact.)
-
As for Kanako, I don't think the "raaaagh smite teh youkais" is anything personal. I see it as more of having to do with being a god of war. Like any other god or youkai, she gets her strength from belief. And what does a god of war do to get people to believe in her? Admittedly, these were entirely the wrong people to take that approach to.
Yeah, see, this is what confuses me. Her official profile calls her a goddess of wind and rain. And in the old days, she was a harvest goddess. Also, as Sakana pointed out, she wanted youkai to come up the mountain to dance and sing and party with her. Why did she suddenly start sending Sanae out to whoop youkai butt?
I'd love to see a work of fanfiction explain that.
"Lady Kanako is telling me to master youkai hunting like they do." It seems more to me that Kanako wants Sanae to hunt youkai to become more like the other main characters, instead of growing to dislike them. Of course, I would set apart the mountain youkai from the others in the first place, so there's a sort of justification in Kanako encouraging Sanae to "hunt youkai that do bad things to people". But then Sanae gets caught up in "youkai hunting" and ends up just attacking every youkai she sees or something.
Yes. This is plausible.
Personally I believe that Sanae's enthusiasm for youkai hunting is towards the whole spell card rules thing and not actual extermination. In Sanae B's scenario she more or less mentions that she's not exterminating any youkai for real, so it's probably the same in SanaeA.
Now this, though, I'm not so sure about. She shows a lot of contempt for youkai in UFO. In Ten Desires, she's more relaxed, almost polite even. I think she's just growing up.
-
Yeah, see, this is what confuses me. Her official profile calls her a goddess of wind and rain. And in the old days, she was a harvest goddess. Also, as Sakana pointed out, she wanted youkai to come up the mountain to dance and sing and party with her. Why did she suddenly start sending Sanae out to whoop youkai butt?
The "God of War" usually comes up because of her role in the Great Suwa War. I don't think war is actually one of her "domains," so to speak.
-
I love Kanako. I was considering writing something about her forever ago, since so many people seem to dislike her around here.
Is it just me, or do Shikieiki, Byakuren, her, Remilia, and Yukari always get the "lol evil" short end of the stick?
-
Byakuren? That's new...
-
I've really never seen that Nazi psychobitch Byakuren you guys keep talking about. All I ever see is the sweet, saintly Byakuren that she is meant to be.
-
While I definitely don't believe in "Nazi Byakuren" I still dislike her character a lot for a couple of reasons. My main reason is that despite the fact that she states her goal is to unite Humans and Youkai, she hasn't really done much to help realize it, and perhaps made things worse with some of things she did before she was sealed away. For example, instead of trying get the humans she lived with to understand that youkai aren't evil she pretended to hunt youkai in order to please them (reinforcing the thought that youkai are bad).
Byakuren also seems to be all to willing to brand the protagonists (who have a legitimate reason for youkai hunting) as cruel, yet seems to be unaware of the fact that there are several youkai who eat and terrorize humans
Her group of followers also only contains youkai as opposed to both humans and youkai which would be more fitting considering her apparent goal.
I don't see Byakuren as evil as much as just misguided and having a slight dislike for humans, but maybe I'm just misinterpreting her backstory and ingame dialouge and am completely incorrect.
-
I've really never seen that Nazi psychobitch Byakuren you guys keep talking about. All I ever see is the sweet, saintly Byakuren that she is meant to be.
There's a doujin circle by the name of Stripe Pattern that made a story about Byakuren helping youkai perpetrate a massacre, but then again, this same guy wrote "psycho Sanae who hates her goddesses" and "emo Aya" and is extremely fond of stupid grimdark.
Hell, the guy turned Nue into some sort of heroine for helping to seal Byakuren.
-
There's a doujin circle by the name of Stripe Pattern that made a story about Byakuren helping youkai perpetrate a massacre, but then again, this same guy wrote "psycho Sanae who hates her goddesses" and "emo Aya" and is extremely fond of stupid grimdark.
Hell, the guy turned Nue into some sort of heroine for helping to seal Byakuren.
That doujin actually made me appreciate her a lot more. Stripe Pattern is <3.
-
Her group of followers also only contains youkai as opposed to both humans and youkai which would be more fitting considering her apparent goal.
Byakuren's group of followers contains only youkai because Byakuren was hiding her love of youkai from humans, so it'd make sense that she wouldn't get that many human followers at first (lest they find out her secret). However, now that she's in Gensokyo, her new temple is stated to be popular with both youkai AND humans alike (in one of the Hisoutenko win quotes, if I recall correctly)
Though of course ZUN still hasn't created any named human characters for it.
Byakuren hiding her love of youkai from humans in the past is probably supposed to be a character flaw anyways. Not sure there's anything in the canon that celebrates the fact that she did that. Course, in Gensokyo, she doesn't need to hide that anymore.
-
I Really , Really Wished That Kanako Is Used More. She's almost Invisible in Fanon, and only used probably as a background character in Fanon...
-
That doujin actually made me appreciate her a lot more. Stripe Pattern is <3.
What, Hero Nue or Canon Rape Byakuren?
The guy even used quotes to back up his interpretation, which made it even dumber.
-
I Really , Really Wished That Kanako Is Used More. She's almost Invisible in Fanon, and only used probably as a background character in Fanon...
I wouldn't say invisible. In fact, she seems to be present almost every time Sanae appears.
Plus, she does have that guncannon meme...
-
Byakuren's group of followers contains only youkai because Byakuren was hiding her love of youkai from humans, so it'd make sense that she wouldn't get that many human followers at first (lest they find out her secret). However, now that she's in Gensokyo, her new temple is stated to be popular with both youkai AND humans alike (in one of the Hisoutenko win quotes, if I recall correctly)
Though of course ZUN still hasn't created any named human characters for it.
Byakuren hiding her love of youkai from humans in the past is probably supposed to be a character flaw anyways. Not sure there's anything in the canon that celebrates the fact that she did that. Course, in Gensokyo, she doesn't need to hide that anymore.
That is true, I guess my main problem is that Byakuren's seen as this saintly near perfect person even though she acted in some pretty questionable ways before she was sealed away.
-
Byakuren also seems to be all to willing to brand the protagonists (who have a legitimate reason for youkai hunting) as cruel, yet seems to be unaware of the fact that there are several youkai who eat and terrorize humans
Her group of followers also only contains youkai as opposed to both humans and youkai which would be more fitting considering her apparent goal.
To the first, she has been sealed up for 1,000 years and was just released from her seal a couple of minutes ago when we meet her in UFO, which might go a long way towards explaining why she's so uninformed.
To the second, it's not her fault that it was only youkai who hopped onto the Palanquin Ship to save her-- they're the only ones who'd have the long enough lifespan to remember her the first time around, and even then, ReimuA's ending lays out that this has now changed:
The treasure ship cruise was popular among humans and youkai.
Sometimes humans and youkai would end up onboard at the same time, but the youkai were never hunted then;
Byakuren was surprised at how much the world had changed - youkai were no longer victims.
Reimu didn't really understand what Byakuren was on guard about, but she had an idea why Byakuren had been sealed away.
She was too powerful and willing to aid humans and youkai without distinction, so the humans got mad and sealed her away.
Nobody would fear powerful humans anymore, though. Byakuren and her youkai friends would never be sealed away again.
-
I freaking love ReimuA's ending. It's just so happy. :D
-
That is true, I guess my main problem is that Byakuren's seen as this saintly near perfect person even though she acted in some pretty questionable ways before she was sealed away.
What's so questionable about saving youkai from human lynch groups and humans from youkai raiding parties?
-
What's so questionable about saving youkai from human lynch groups and humans from youkai raiding parties?
What I was mainly thinking about in my last post was the event with Murasa where she let the entire crew of the ship drown before actually doing anything.
Also, some of the things she says made me think that she's just not a fan of humans in general: such as in Marisa's scenario where she says "I've already given up my humanity" as if she was eager to get rid of it.
-
[fanwank]She nearly drowned herself when Murasa trashed the ship[/fanwank]
Come to think of it, do we have any portrayals of the current tensions between youkai and human as stated in PMISS (extermination = arse beatings and youkai only kidnap humans for show)?
-
Also, some of the things she says made me think that she's just not a fan of humans in general: such as in Marisa's scenario where she says "I've already given up my humanity" as if she was eager to get rid of it.
That seems like a reeeal stretch in trying to find reasons not to like her. If you were a civil rights activist, trying to establish harmony between youkai and humans, and humans sealed you away from centuries, uh, yeah. I think I'd have an eensy weensy lil grudge about humanity in general.
-
I want to see some more cannon Reimu. YEs, she can be a bit greedy, but the way fans tend to portray her towards money is ridiculous. And yes, she can be a jerk, but not THAT much of a jerk.
-
That seems like a reeeal stretch in trying to find reasons not to like her. If you were a civil rights activist, trying to establish harmony between youkai and humans, and humans sealed you away from centuries, uh, yeah. I think I'd have an eensy weensy lil grudge about humanity in general.
Maybe it was a bit of a stretch. I'll just drop this subject now since it's sort of getting off topic from the thread's purpose.
-
I want to see some more cannon Reimu. YEs, she can be a bit greedy, but the way fans tend to portray her towards money is ridiculous. And yes, she can be a jerk, but not THAT much of a jerk.
YES.
-
I think the one of the very few characters who hasn't been corrupted by fandom is Mokou. Can anyone confirm this?
-
What about Medicine, lesser-known PC-98 characters, and other characters hardly ever used? But of the popural ones, I think you're right.
-
I think the one of the very few characters who hasn't been corrupted by fandom is Mokou. Can anyone confirm this?
Nope. Mokou is frequently depicted in fanart as a chain-smoker, despite official material stating that she's a health nut. It would be ridiculous to make her a smoker in that case, but for some reason or another the fandom made her one anyway. Probably because of her fire magic, tomboy look and because it's 'cool'.
As Koakkuri mentioned, Medicine is mostly unaffected. Hina and the Akis too to a certain extent. Pretty sure they didn't tinker much with Yamame and Kisume either.
-
Also Mokou is very cool and level headed in canon, well except around Kaguya. But again, cause of her affiliation with fire, she's got to be rash and hot blooded. And there's her and Keine. And the Pandora's Box that is Mystia's Grill. Don't get me wrong, I like Mystia's Grill, but where in canon does it hold any basis?
-
Mystia's lampfrey stand comes from Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red.
-
Mokou being a chain-smoker in fanon is due to her mentioning cigarettes in Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red.
-
Mystia's lampfrey stand comes from Bohemian Archive in Japanese Red.
I do remember once that there was some confusion on the fact that Mystia sold Eel instead of Lamprey, although I chalk this up to people being misled by how similar both an Eel and Lamprey look in body (once you get to the head, it's a different story).
Also regarding Mokou and Mystia, isn't Mystia supposed to be racist towards humans? :V
-
What's so questionable about saving youkai from human lynch groups and humans from youkai raiding parties?
I always liked Byakuren because she was such a saint but she's also got plenty of aspects that make her human. I never thought of her as perfect. She advocates for harmony between two different groups that are at each other's necks. Still, she starts out with a fear of death, supports the youkai simply to protect herself before learning to care for them, and eventually winds up confused about the whole human/youkai persecution thing. Besides, one of the endings of UFO specifically says that Byakuren is a good person. That's all I need to know.
And actually, Remilia was mentioned before for being "lol evil" and actually that's the only way I've ever pictured her. I thought that was her schtick. She's the spoiled, snotty, self-serving brat I've always thought of her as in every canon representation of her. I'm absolutely shocked the two could be lumped together in any way. Then again, all this is coming from someone who has Byakuren ranked at 5 and Remilia at, uh, under 125 through tohosort.
-
The latest chapter of Strange and Bright Deity features Mystia's stand. Unfortunately, it's untranslated. Gotta say tho that the pictures of Mystia dragging it around and cheerfully running it and interacting with Reimu and the fairies looks absolutely adorable, tho.
-
She's also frequently depicted as a tsundere (which is canon if you really like Inaba) towards Kaguya, or being Evil-Kaguya's chew toy and getting traumatized out the ass by her or being Evil herself and massacring Eientei.
Remilia I can get, but since it's Gensokyo, she's more like the highly incompetent villain.
(fuck i just imagined her as skeletor)
-
(fuck i just imagined her as skeletor)
Oh god I can't get the image out of my head.
-
(fuck i just imagined her as skeletor)
"Together we defend Castle Greysokyo from the evil forces of Scarletor."
HA-KUREI
AND THE MISTRESSES OF THE UNIVERSE
-
"Together we defend Castle Greysokyo from the evil forces of Scarletor."
HA-KUREI
AND THE MISTRESSES OF THE UNIVERSE
* explodes
-
"Together we defend Castle Greysokyo from the evil forces of Scarletor."
HA-KUREI
AND THE MISTRESSES OF THE UNIVERSE
Fund it. Fund it now.
-
"Together we defend Castle Greysokyo from the evil forces of Scarletor."
HA-KUREI
AND THE MISTRESSES OF THE UNIVERSE
ilu Iryan.
-
"Together we defend Castle Greysokyo from the evil forces of Scarletor."
HA-KUREI
AND THE MISTRESSES OF THE UNIVERSE
I hate you forever.
But it's the Mokou kind of hate.
-
I hate you forever.
But it's the Mokou kind of hate.
You want to challenge him to a fishing competition?
Also: more fishing in fanworks. That's what I want to see.
-
Also: more fishing in fanworks. That's what I want to see.
I concur. (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/407721/-_-_-4koma-5girls-chibi-cirno-colonel_aki-comic-cu)*Danbo warnin'
-
I wish to see more doujins that stick close to canon.
...
What?
-
This. Is an amazing thread.
I wish to see more doujins that stick close to canon.
Please. I also love things that aren't canon at all - but it seems very few things try. I realize everyone has their own headcanon- but it would be cool to see many more mainline works as well.
To be honest... Well, I'm not generally a fan of the way the fanon can sometimes run with the most 'moe' or one-dimensional traits. That doesn't mean I dislike those presumed traits!... It just means that they make the characters far too simple, and one of the huge appeals of Touhou to me is how each character feels very complex and interesting, even within a small amount of time + good supplementary work. Anyway. :wikipedia: One of the ones that I don't understand at all, is Sakuya and Meiling being at odds; they always seemed to have a healthy respect for each other, although I cannot remember if it's actually canon that gave me that impression. I've certainly never seen any evidence they hate each other. Also, Meiling being turned into an incompetent character - she was a decently challenging boss (I felt, although as all things go it may be different for some) and more importantly seems to be very competent in physical combat. Instead we just got some lolchina jokes which can be... Sort of funny, but most of the time just come off hackneyed to me. And occasionally really uncomfortable.
Also: more fishing in fanworks. That's what I want to see.
I concur.*Danbo warnin'
This! What could be more Touhou than a ridiculously hot summer day, fishing while talking to someone else who has thoughtfully brought a tea kettle and mugs? Maybe it's just that I fished a lot growing up, though, ehehe. I want to write it into my own works more... Eh, but how to do it without seeming cheesy. Oh, and one last thing.
"Together we defend Castle Greysokyo from the evil forces of Scarletor."
HA-KUREI
AND THE MISTRESSES OF THE UNIVERSE
... please. oh wow please.
"I am Reimu, Princess of Ephemera, and Defender of the Hakurei Border. This, is Marisa - my fearless friend. Fabulous Secret Powers were revealed to me the day I held aloft my magic orb and said - by the power of Greysokyo!"
Also, a She-Ra edition.
Ah! And another thing! I wouldn't mind talking about the traits we use in our own works/art/etc and why. I'm very interested to here why individual people choose the traits that they do - people always have interesting reasons for their choices, and it might be kind of an interesting thing to discuss..?
-
"Together we defend Castle Greysokyo from the evil forces of Scarletor."
HA-KUREI
AND THE MISTRESSES OF THE UNIVERSE
Well played, Iryan. Well played.
-
Ah! And another thing! I wouldn't mind talking about the traits we use in our own works/art/etc and why. I'm very interested to here why individual people choose the traits that they do - people always have interesting reasons for their choices, and it might be kind of an interesting thing to discuss..?
I use a very rash Cirno and a very level headed Mokou. Ice powers work well (and in canon are) with hot-blooded characters and fire powers tend to work (and in canon are) with the cool-headed; the contrast does wonders in my opinion. Putting the two character types together just works; the two types really bring out the personality in eachother, and the power/personality mismatch makes the characters more interesting.
A number of my decisions are based on the character's powers and abilities. I don't like to seperate the character from the power, and I like to put a lot of effort into checking to see if I would behave the way my characters would in the same circumstances. You can add a lot of depth by considering what an immortal would consider important that a normal person would not, the differences between how a mind reader converses and thinks in contrast with everyone else, etc. I would love to see more Remilias where manipulation of fate is treated as an absolute and inherent part of her outlook on the world.
Incidentally, every time I forget to make the power inseperable from the character I consider a mistake; forgetting to add the extra dimension is no different than writing out of character. I'll be the first to admit I make mistakes, and I may have gotten a bit lazy as well; I use to write biographies for all the characters I wanted to add depth to so that I wouldn't forget anything, but I got tired of that and stopped. I should probably make a new one soon since I've used Cirno for a while now with no biography.
-
A number of my decisions are based on the character's powers and abilities. I don't like to seperate the character from the power, and I like to put a lot of effort into checking to see if I would behave the way my characters would in the same circumstances. You can add a lot of depth by considering what an immortal would consider important that a normal person would not, the differences between how a mind reader converses and thinks in contrast with everyone else, etc. I would love to see more Remilias where manipulation of fate is treated as an absolute and inherent part of her outlook on the world.
This is very interesting, and really makes me rethink my own writing. I tend to ignore powers - seeing them as being something that otherworldly but human-like beings might see as natural as we see an opposable thumb - in favor of examining years of age and the desired effect a character wishes to convey. For example, very old characters may or may not even have been treated like/as gods, once upon a time. That is likely to affect their view of what is acceptable and what is not in regards to humans and weaker youkai. Other youkai -from more modern times or with a more innovative outlook - might not see themselves as being that much different from humans. As for powers proper, I use them to propel actions forward and little else; Mystia enjoys singing not because it can cause insanity, but because she enjoys her songs, perhaps even feels compelled to sing them. She might be regretful of the effect on others, but for a youkai - well, it's either stop singing or keep singing, right?
Incidentally, every time I forget to make the power inseperable from the character I consider a mistake; forgetting to add the extra dimension is no different than writing out of character. I'll be the first to admit I make mistakes, and I may have gotten a bit lazy as well; I use to write biographies for all the characters I wanted to add depth to so that I wouldn't forget anything, but I got tired of that and stopped. I should probably make a new one soon since I've used Cirno for a while now with no biography.
Cooool- I keep all my notes in my head, or on the walls. Don't laugh - I have mountains of post-it-notes and scraps of notebooks in my room for various writing projects, as well as notes for things like science, recipes, etc... A friend once joked that if I confused my writing with my experiments and my experiments with my cooking and my cooking with my gardening things might become pretty funny pretty fast. Biographies sound like a great idea, though. I used to make up huge backstories for the nameless soldiers in games like ogre battle or custom characters in games like might and magic 1/2, but for Touhou, I feel kind of like I know everyone already. Presque vu.
I use a very rash Cirno and a very level headed Mokou. Ice powers work well (and in canon are) with hot-blooded characters and fire powers tend to work (and in canon are) with the cool-headed; the contrast does wonders in my opinion. Putting the two character types together just works; the two types really bring out the personality in eachother, and the power/personality mismatch makes the characters more interesting.
In terms of writing - I tend to make my older youkai think differently than humans. My image of Yuuka is of course someone who is very capricious - not truly a sadist, but who simply enjoys the pleasure of things that aren't considered acceptable anymore; violence is one of those things. Then again, there are also things she finds abhorrent as well. One of the hardest characters I find to write is Flandre... I'd like to write more about her, so I can get into her head. Someone cooped up that long - I feel like much of her demeanor is a reaction against the life she lives, if it can even be called a life. Anyway, I agree that well-written opposites work amazingly together. I also like it when people appear to be completely different, and yet have far more in common than they first seem. Anything else, hmn.. For those who are wondering, I don't actually consider Reimu a jerkass at all. I guess I'm just more of a youkai than a human, dohohoho. :derp:
-
Nope. Mokou is frequently depicted in fanart as a chain-smoker, despite official material stating that she's a health nut. It would be ridiculous to make her a smoker in that case, but for some reason or another the fandom made her one anyway. Probably because of her fire magic, tomboy look and because it's 'cool'.
Mokou isn't a health nut at all, but very much its opposite: she casually abuses her body. That she smokes fit nicely into this theme of abuse, but I cannot find a canon source for it now. The "tobacco litterings" in BAiJR's interview was a cover for the forest fire's real reason (almost certainly her own fiery aura and bullets).
The "health nut" and "yakitori stand" were other two (badly thought up) lies to justify first her unchanging appearance and then what exactly she's doing all the time in the bamboo forest.
-
Guess I'll talk about the character portrayals for my SSB/Touhou crossover.
The basic plot of the story involves eleven of the girls getting transported to various different worlds from some of the series represented in the SSB series.
Reimu: I made her pretty close to her canon portrayal, I think. She sort of dislikes getting into business that doesn't concern her, though she admits feeling guilty if she doesn't do anything about evildoers. She has an obsession for money.
Marisa: I think she's pretty close to canon too. She likes excitement and battles.
Youmu: One of my reviewers said that she's supposed to be aggressive. I sort of made her a "ask first, attack later" kind of person, but asides from that, I think she's pretty in-character. Oh yeah, she's also afraid of ghosts.
Alice: She almost always looks cold and expressionless, complete with half-closed eyes. Despite this, she's actually very kind and is calm and collected at all times.
Meiling: I'm sure I made her almost the same as her canon portrayal.
Nitori: I pretty much dropped her shy personality when being around humans, though she admits feeling a bit nervous when there are too many humans around her. She has a large interest in machines and is a great inventor herself.
Cirno: She's always proud of herself, not to mention rash. She's not very bright either. She can't tell the difference between Captain Falcon and Blood Falcon.
Reisen: She's quite a worrywart and shows a lot of concern for various things. I also made her somewhat knowledgeable in the medical department, so you can say she's the healer the group.
Remilia: Charismatic, confident, calm and collected, etc. Pretty much identical to her canon portrayal. She does lose her temper if her opponents are giving her a hard time.
Aya: Likes to boast about her speed. She's also has quite a bit of curiosity, so she tries to gather as much information as she can on various subjects.
Sanae: Kind, sweet, and loving, but becomes very worked up when it comes to exterminating demons (what I call youkais) . She tries in vain to kill Dry Bones and refused to listen to Luigi when he told her that only Starmen are capable of destroying them.
Yeah, Sakuya isn't one of the main characters, though she does make minor appearances in the story. However, I did plan to use her at one point, along with Mokou and Keine. To be precise, I actually thought it would be a good idea to use Mokou after I started posting chapters of the story onto FF.net, but obviously, it's already too late. I originally dismissed her inclusion due to her immortality.
-
Holy shit, YOU'RE the author of that fanfic? I love it!
-
That's good to hear! Thanks for enjoying my story!
God bless you!
-
Rash Cirno is canon. Then again, all fairies are rash. (Reminds me, I should play Great Fairy Wars eventually.)
Just wondering, how approximately rough are Komachi and Mokou's style of speech? Works either make their accents into sounding like a redneck/city slicker (respectively) or don't do it at all.
-
Mokou isn't a health nut at all, but very much its opposite: she casually abuses her body. That she smokes fit nicely into this theme of abuse, but I cannot find a canon source for it now. The "tobacco litterings" in BAiJR's interview was a cover for the forest fire's real reason (almost certainly her own fiery aura and bullets).
The "health nut" and "yakitori stand" were other two (badly thought up) lies to justify first her unchanging appearance and then what exactly she's doing all the time in the bamboo forest.
That is pure speculation. The fact Mokou is immortal and often gets damaged doesn't completely ru
e out the possibility. It's pretty obvious that you can't become immortal by just being a health nut, so I doubt it's a lie and that Mokou indeed considers health important. Akyu already knows that no mater what Mokou doesn't die, even though she doesn't know how this is possible. Even though she may abuse her own body, she can still consider the health of others important. This actually makes sense: the healthier Mokou's friends are, the longer they'll stay alive. Though it is inevitable that Mokou will see her friends die, she can at least try and make them stick around as long as possible.
-
That is pure speculation. The fact Mokou is immortal and often gets damaged doesn't completely ru
e out the possibility. It's pretty obvious that you can't become immortal by just being a health nut, so I doubt it's a lie and that Mokou indeed considers health important. Akyu already knows that no mater what Mokou doesn't die, even though she doesn't know how this is possible. Even though she may abuse her own body, she can still consider the health of others important. This actually makes sense: the healthier Mokou's friends are, the longer they'll stay alive. Though it is inevitable that Mokou will see her friends die, she can at least try and make them stick around as long as possible.
All I read from your post is "Mokou abuse her body" :3
I want to see more of that.
-
That is pure speculation. The fact Mokou is immortal and often gets damaged doesn't completely ru
e out the possibility. It's pretty obvious that you can't become immortal by just being a health nut, so I doubt it's a lie and that Mokou indeed considers health important. Akyu already knows that no mater what Mokou doesn't die, even though she doesn't know how this is possible. Even though she may abuse her own body, she can still consider the health of others important. This actually makes sense: the healthier Mokou's friends are, the longer they'll stay alive. Though it is inevitable that Mokou will see her friends die, she can at least try and make them stick around as long as possible.
Alright, I'm citing Cage in Lunatic Runagate, 4th chapter. This is Mokou narrating:
The cold woke me up. The room was completely dark. It seems I'd fallen asleep for a bit.
The moonlight crept into the darkened house. The moonlight brought no warmth with it. It only served to bring a chill to my already cold body.
My immortal body was in quite good condition, despite how I neglected it. And that was quite a bit.
I hadn't made anything for dinner yet. I may be immortal, but I get hungry and my joints hurt in the cold. Still, it better suited my personality to bear a bit of discomfort than to find a way to keep warm or eat a bit of nutritious food.
Yes, after all, no matter what happened I wouldn't die.
It wouldn't have any effect on my body at all, whether I slept until I was completely satisfied, or whether I kept waking up until I finally succumbed to drowsiness.
As you can plainly see, she's not a health nut, but the very inverse: she doesn't mind about her health.
-
Due in part to the old mindset of "Oh hey, I'm immortal. Doesn't matter what I do anymore, since I'll just heal from it all."
-
I'd really like to see an instance where "dirt-poor Reimu" doesn't appear. Yes, Reimu doesn't get many donations, but she's not so poor that she has to dig in trash cans for simple sustenance. A good example of fans going way too far with character interpretations.
-
I'd really like to see an instance where "dirt-poor Reimu" doesn't appear. Yes, Reimu doesn't get many donations, but she's not so poor that she has to dig in trash cans for simple sustenance. A good example of fans going way too far with character interpretations.
Can you please, please, please stick to the topic of this thread? It is not "fan portrayals I don't like"; it's "canon portrayals I want to see more of". You've already been asked once before, and I don't think it's too much to ask that you respect the subject the OP has created.
-
Can you please, please, please stick to the topic of this thread? It is not "fan portrayals I don't like"; it's "canon portrayals I want to see more of". You've already been asked once before, and I don't think it's too much to ask that you respect the subject the OP has created.
And I still think that limits the discussion to an extent. There's no harm in discussing it the other way around; it still at least pertains to the topic.
-
And I still think that limits the discussion to an extent. There's no harm in discussing it the other way around; it still at least pertains to the topic.
But it's not the topic, Savory. If you want to bitch about fan portrayals, make your own damn thread. This thread is for discussing canon portrayals. It's not rocket science.
-
But it's not the topic, Savory. If you want to bitch about fan portrayals, make your own damn thread. This thread is for discussing canon portrayals. It's not rocket science.
Fine, fine, fine. Let's not argue.
Okay, Reimu's monetary conditions should fit a bit more to canon. Sure, she's poor, but not to the point of blatant poverty; it's more like 'I don't have enough money for luxuries" poor. How's that?
-
Yes, that is related to the topic. Thank you.
-
Well call it silly, but I wish Sanae would be shown more with that really big hair she was sporting in Mountain of Faith. And that's how I always draw her- with huge hair rivaling Kanako's. I know it, uh, 'deflates' over the course of the games, but my heart longs for puffy-haired Sanae!
And while I agree showing Kaguya as a NEET is cute and can be comical, I agree that the fanon shown Kaguya is vastly different from the canon Kaguya. Loving guests, telling stories, showing off artifacts- not just sitting in the dark for hours playing something. But I DO think she could get her hands on a gaming device- like through Kourindo? and she'd play it every so often- but not obsessive NEET status. But I suppose that's a story for a rainy-day headcanon. More friendly Kaguya is the point!
I think Flandre is shown a little TOO off the wall insane in the fandom. I mean, I don't doubt she's mentally unstable. It's written in canon of course. But she's not out of her bloody mind trying to slaughter everything that breaths as she laughs maniacally. But I guess very unstable!Flandre is less popular and less liked than 24/7 crazy serial killer status!Flandre. Don't get me wrong, there's very good insane Flandre art and stories out there. But I see her with up and down periods of stability that can be triggered by loneliness and too much excitement. She could ascend to such a violent dangerous state- but hey, this is just me and my observations.
Hope I didn't break any rules with that c:
-
I personally would like to see fanworks delve more into the implied abilities of characters. According to PMiSS Remilia could summon demons with just mere whispers, Tenshi's skin is nigh-inpenetrable and poisonous to youkai, Wriggle can control the highly venomous harvest-mites, Iku can 'read' the atmosphere, Shikieiki has her Mirror of Truth and Nitori's water manipulation isn't shown off that much either. Komachi's manipulation of distance is barely depicted too.
Mythology-wise, Ran should be able to possess people and shapeshift, as well as use fox fire and spit lightning.
This also makes me wonder why Shikieiki is sometimes depicted in fanworks using lightning strike attacks...
-
I actually always imagined Mokou as avoiding smoking, since it'd eventually kill her horribly.
Also, needs more "weird eccentric hobo Koishi".
-
I personally would like to see fanworks delve more into the implied abilities of characters. According to PMiSS Remilia could summon demons with just mere whispers, Tenshi's skin is nigh-inpenetrable and poisonous to youkai, Wriggle can control the highly venomous harvest-mites, Iku can 'read' the atmosphere, Shikieiki has her Mirror of Truth and Nitori's water manipulation isn't shown off that much either. Komachi's manipulation of distance is barely depicted too.
Mythology-wise, Ran should be able to possess people and shapeshift, as well as use fox fire and spit lightning.
This also makes me wonder why Shikieiki is sometimes depicted in fanworks using lightning strike attacks...
Shapeshifting Ran and Iku reading the atmosphere has happened.
As for Shikieiki having lightning attacks, I guess it comes with the 'gods smite people' thing. :V
-
I actually always imagined Mokou as avoiding smoking, since it'd eventually kill her horribly.
Think about this for a second. ^^
-
He may've done so more than you may think actually. Immortality isn't necessarily good health. The implication is that while Mouku may recover flawlessly from instantaneous death, she must be subject to gradual changes, (otherwise how would she be able to grow properly 'n stuff?) Granted, if she ever dies, she'll simply just recover but perhaps only to the point where she's in a state of health like the one she was in before. This would leave her in a wretched state, at best being an old coughing hag and at worst, in a cycle of near simultaneous death and resurrection. Granted, the Hori Elixer would seem rather worthless with this interpretation and it doesn't entirely explain why Kaguya and Mouku both appear to be so youthful but it's an interesting thought nevertheless. At any rate moving onto the main topic of my post...
While I understand the whole calm, wise levelheaded History Teacher Keine meme has its basis in both her powers and a few teasing comments by Team Scarlet, it really has no basis in the actions of the well meaning but spastically presumptuous, rashly overreactive character and we actually see for ourselves in Imperishable Night.
Judging from what I've witnessed, I'd say she's vaguely aware of the generalities of what's going on but acts upon gut instinct without knowing any of the pertinent details. As a primary example, She's willing to take everyone and everything head on quite brazenly and without second thought if she thinks it might be a problem. In all of the I.N. story modes, she's the first to jump out and attack any random passer by with accusations of wrongdoing before they even get a chance to speak or go about their personal business. This includes even Reimu and Marisa quite ironically enough, two characters notoriously infamous for this sort of behavior.
She's an absolutely terrible judge of character as well, as it turns out that the people there, whichever team you may pick, are actually turn out to be there to help out rather than cause any harm of any sort. Further exemplifying her bad sense of judgement, she also rushes headstrong into these needless battles and they turn out to be more far more than she can manage to chew. She even goes so far as to assume Marisa's not trustworthy (okay, that might be a good call) because she's a Youkai (or maybe not…)
Granted she has good intentions in that she simply wants to come to the aid of defend what and whom she cares about, much like a superheroine. However her plans aren't always the most well thought through if you really take the time to think about them. Writing an entire village out of history to defend it from the night's terrors makes little sense considering you'll eventually have to write it back in for continuity purposes or face destroying the village forever. While it's possible that this could be simply credited as stalling for time, it doesn't explain why she's so protective of Mouku in the EX stage, as Mouku scarcely needs protecting with her powers of infinite resurrection.
Also before anybody simply goes ahead and writes me off, I'm not saying I want to see more "CAVE!" as this one dimensional interpretation goes a bit too far into the other direction in taking her readiness to attack to the exclusion of all other personality traits. The way I see it she's either really more like Gensokyo's equivalent of either Super Grover or Knuckles the Echidna than anything else and either of those could both be very entertaining roles to fill pendent on the nature of the work.
This goes especially so since canonically speaking, there's no shortage of intellectuals that could serve History Teacher Keine's roles while staying more in character so to speak. Take for example Alice Margatroid, Patchouli Knowledge or especially Hidea no Akyu, the child who spends her days peaceably sipping tea with guests and recording Gensokyo's actual history for the purposes of perservation. (Rather than distorting it to suit her whimsy like Keine, for whom teaching history would be both pointless and counterproductive to any good that could come of changing it how she does.) A rivalry between Keine and Akyu might be interesting too, come to think of it though, due to this conflict in the nature of Akyu's and Keine's wills and powers.
I'd go on analyzing others but most of them have already been delved into to some degree and I don't think I have quite the level of canonical knowledge of the games' actual events to do too much better than what was gone over once before. However if visual portrayals count nobody seems to draw Chen with the the sharp red fingernails like she has in Perfect Cherry Blossom. She's usually declawed by the artists to make her seem more innocent, harmless and cute.
-
Actually, there's some info about the hourai elixir that should be placed here.
One sip(or pill in some cases) makes you unable to age further than you already have.
Two sips(or pills), means you will never again be troubled by illness or disease.
Three, and you attain true immortality, the kind Mokou and Kaguya have. The kind where you will never be troubled by death ever again.
Unless of course, an outside force, such as a sword, causes it, but even that will not be permanent.
-
Wall of text: destroyed.
On topic: Kanako the party goddess. I want to hear more about these feasts on Youkai Mountain!
-
Think about this for a second. ^^
Uhm, even with the hourai elixir, she's going to get a lung full of black tar. Not a pleasant way to die, immortal or not.
-
Uhm, even with the hourai elixir, she's going to get a lung full of black tar. Not a pleasant way to die, immortal or not.
She could rip out her tar filled lungs and grow new ones. :derp:
I personally think that whenever Mokou is blown into itty bitty pieces her body restores without any impurities in it. Those impurities were left behind when she was blown to smithereens.
Big ol' wall o' text.
Hourai Elixir basically makes the drinker undergo temporal stasis. You never change.
-
I don't think I've ever seen Nitori's ability to control the water at all in fandom. It's always her ability to invent shit that seems to gain alot of credit. I will say that out of all the powers the Touhous have, Nitori's is by far the less used by the fandom.
-
I don't think I've ever seen Nitori's ability to control the water at all in fandom. It's always her ability to invent shit that seems to gain alot of credit.
NOTHING BEATS THE POWER OF SCIENCE!
By the way, it's known that Patchouli is sickly, but does it really impede her that much? In canon, she rarely lets out even a cough (at least as far as I know); she only mentions her ailment. However in fanon, she's anemic to the point of death, has nonstop cough fits is about as strong as a toothpick. A burnt toothpick.
-
I know it's said that she's ashmatic, and her profiles state that she's 'physically weak' or having a 'weak constitution'. From what I can tell, her asthma makes it difficult for her to recite her spells (I would guess this would mean long winded spell recitations are out for her). There's also her lack of Vitimain A which would mean that her eyesight is shitty (there are other problems associated with this too, but I'll just stick to the obvious).
I can't remember if physical weakness(es) slow her down in any other aspects, but the spell recitation and vitamin A deficiency are things I'm sure of.
-
I know it's said that she's ashmatic...
LOL ashmatic.
...and her profiles state that she's 'physically weak' or having a 'weak constitution'. From what I can tell, her asthma makes it difficult for her to recite her spells (I would guess this would mean long winded spell recitations are out for her). There's also her lack of Vitimain A which would mean that her eyesight is shitty (there are other problems associated with this too, but I'll just stick to the obvious).
I can't remember if physical weakness(es) slow her down in any other aspects, but the spell recitation and vitamin A deficiency are things I'm sure of.
Well, if that's true, I don't think such a person should be participating in battles. And she's been in a few canonically, so perhaps her condition isn't as serious as speculated. I also find it ironic that she reads profusely and her eyesight is supposed to be bad (actually, this comes as a shock to me considering that).
-
The way I see it, she's about as weak as the so-called "Nerds" you saw in 80's-90's tv shows.
She's a right brainy one, but her physical abilities are less-than-stellar. Since she's a Youkai, I'd say she's only about as physically powerful as a regular human.
But it's her magical ability that really makes her shine, she's got all the elements at her disposal, as well as the Philosopher's Stone, said to extend one's life, and cure all ills.
So I'd say her only weakness is that on a good day she's about as functional as your average non-combat MMO mage class.
Able to bend the elements to her will, but not so hot in a straight-up fistfight. In Ragnarok Online terms, she's a Wizard Class, able to bring great destruction to her opponents, and near-invincible against other magic-slingers, but unable to take much of a physical hit.
In other words, she's one of the most versatile mages around, she just can't take a hit all that well, like the regular non-magic "nerds", who were well-known for being rather intelligent, but unable to put up much of a fight in physical terms.
And as for the poor eyesight thing and reading profusely, I have just one thing to say.
Magical eyeglasses/what-have-you.