Author Topic: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom  (Read 74842 times)

AJS

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2011, 04:31:49 PM »
It bugs me how a lot of artists like to portray Flandre as an absolute psycho who will obliterate you in an instant.  But canonically, this obviously isn't true.  Although in her profile, ZUN has called her "kind of nuts", that doesn't mean she's flat-out crazy.  Hell, in EoSD, the playable characters are able to talk to her and she certainly at least seems civil enough to carry on a conversation (she even calls out Marisa on her lack of manners when she doesn't introduce herself first), and same goes for Bohemian Archive, where Aya interviews her--She is able to talk quite normally, though her "craziness" comes out a bit, but only in the form of being difficult to understand due to her "emotional instability".  Flandre just strikes me as an immature kid who can sometimes get a little out of control when she loses her temper, and doesn't quite realize the strength of her powers, but otherwise is alright.

Also, as mentioned earlier, I'd like to see a little more canon Ran and Chen, which are usually overshadowed by "suppatenko" and "CHEEEEEEEEN".

Savory

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2011, 04:42:00 PM »
Goodness, I almost forgot about Ran. Both she and Sakuya have been reduced to complete pedophiles around Chen and Remilia. The latter is strange enough because of her age, but it still strikes me as creepy pedophilia.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2011, 04:42:05 PM »
Which ones do I wish got used more?

All of them.

That's right, every single one.

This. I mean, I like USC Yuuka and Psycho Flandre, but that's a result of me getting sucked into the fandoms and not playing the games first. Everything else is canon rape - I'm tired of seeing "hurp Sanae is a psycho/Byakuren is a Nazi/Remilia/Eirin is a coldhearted bitch/Koishi will drive you insane/Sakuya has breast envy/Kaguya is a NEET" shit everywhere.

People do know that Canon Chen is a prankster on the level of Tewi?
Sonata of Scarlet Sunflowers, a Flandre x Yuuka story. | Laziness of Daemonic Wastrels, wherein The Dude, Frylock, HW Guy, and David Wong get their asses kicked in Gensokyo.  | T.O.U.H.O.U.: Land of Shadows, a S.T.A.L.K.E.R./Touhou crossover. | Abomination, a monster story.

Savory

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2011, 04:47:42 PM »
...but that's a result of me getting sucked into the fandoms and not playing the games first.

Y'know what? Maybe that's why I loathe some fan interpretations. I discovered Touhou through a doujin game and started out playing the actual games. So I got the canon exposure.

People do know that Canon Chen is a prankster on the level of Tewi?

*facepalm* I completely forgot about that! This is what I was talking about! Canon is outright ignored! Chen is almost never portrayed as a prankster; just a cute foil for Ran.

Kilgamayan

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2011, 04:50:43 PM »
This question is interesting in that it is "Canon portrayals you wish got used more" and not "Fanon portrayals you wish got used less" (and I'm getting a sense that some people in this thread are blurring the two, though that may just be faulty reading comprehension). There are tons of answers to the latter, but for the former they're a bit harder to come by.

To be honest, haughty Alice is the only one that really comes to mind immediately. Everyone else, for the most part, I either enjoy or ignore the comedic over-exaggerations of their character traits as I see fit.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2011, 04:54:05 PM »
As per all the stupid tsundere/yandere Alice portrayals, we have the symptoms.

Now, we need the cure.

@Sav - Pretty much. I didn't start playing the games until recently, and even then, I was slowly becoming annoyed with the fandom's love of grimderp and twisting weird shit and reusing pad jokes.

I mean, canonically, Yuuka scares people shitless and Flandre supposedly psycho, so I can get behind their genocidal portrayals (that is totally not because I'm writing a fanon-based story about them), but they're both so moe in canon~~~
Sonata of Scarlet Sunflowers, a Flandre x Yuuka story. | Laziness of Daemonic Wastrels, wherein The Dude, Frylock, HW Guy, and David Wong get their asses kicked in Gensokyo.  | T.O.U.H.O.U.: Land of Shadows, a S.T.A.L.K.E.R./Touhou crossover. | Abomination, a monster story.

Savory

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2011, 05:00:17 PM »
Oh dear Lord. The pad joke. I absolutely hate, despise, detest, abhor, [insert about 50 more synonyms for "hate" here] the pad joke. Like Meiling and Flandre, Sakuya is another SDM resident blown off by the fandom. And it's even worse than Hong's because this nonsense came from the fact that alphes draws more prominent breasts than ZUN.

That's it.

A difference in art styles means a character wears pads.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2011, 05:03:08 PM »
I find the pad joke funny.  :derp:

I don't usually use it if I write cannon-faithful fanfiction, though. Just for laughs in conversation or something.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2011, 05:04:24 PM »
Oh dear Lord. The pad joke. I absolutely hate, despise, detest, abhor, [insert about 50 more synonyms for "hate" here] the pad joke. Like Meiling and Flandre, Sakuya is another SDM resident blown off by the fandom. And it's even worse than Hong's because this nonsense came from the fact that alphes draws more prominent breasts than ZUN.

That's it.

A difference in art styles means a character wears pads.

I especially hate it when fandom turns her into a psycho (granted, she had Serial Killer-themed spellcards) or a sadist bitch.

In fact, what's with fandom and turning someone into a sadist bitch? Eirin, Sakuya, Remilia, Yuuka, Yukari, Yuyuko of all fucking people, Kanako...
Sonata of Scarlet Sunflowers, a Flandre x Yuuka story. | Laziness of Daemonic Wastrels, wherein The Dude, Frylock, HW Guy, and David Wong get their asses kicked in Gensokyo.  | T.O.U.H.O.U.: Land of Shadows, a S.T.A.L.K.E.R./Touhou crossover. | Abomination, a monster story.

Savory

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2011, 05:11:10 PM »
Apart from being a stupid meme to begin with, it's another overused joke that's gotten old.

In fact, what's with fandom and turning someone into a sadist bitch? Eirin, Sakuya, Remilia, Yuuka, Yukari, Yuyuko of all fucking people, Kanako...


It's justified with Eirin. That's canon (of course, it's played for laughs and isn't as extreme). As for Yuuka, I've mentioned it already. Because she tells Shiki she was only teasing people when she scares them, the fans turned her into a sadist. I'm surprised that Yuyu is considered one, but I think that's the result of ANOTHER overblown line with the ghost getting a bone stuck in her throat. It suddenly turned into a Sylvester and Tweety scenario with her trying to eat Mystia.

Savory: Go play Sengoku Gensokyo some time, I think you'd like the SDM part of Story Mode.

How do you figure?

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2011, 05:16:32 PM »
Except Eirin sells extremely beneficial to everyone at extremely low prices. She can wait a very long time for someone to repay their medicine.

(Except Aya. I think this is where this sadist crap comes from)

And yeah, Yuyuko getting turned into a mindless zombie comes from that fucking line about Mystia getting eaten... despite Mystia coming back in POFV and one of them fighting games.

Spoilers, but the SDM's story is actually pretty heartwarming.
Sonata of Scarlet Sunflowers, a Flandre x Yuuka story. | Laziness of Daemonic Wastrels, wherein The Dude, Frylock, HW Guy, and David Wong get their asses kicked in Gensokyo.  | T.O.U.H.O.U.: Land of Shadows, a S.T.A.L.K.E.R./Touhou crossover. | Abomination, a monster story.

Savory

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2011, 05:21:17 PM »
If I had to narrow it down, I think Alice, Cirno, Meiling, Utsuho, Flandre and Sakuya got it worse. They're all misunderstood because fanon chooses to change things around or exaggerate. Or completely ignore crap and make up something else.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #42 on: June 21, 2011, 05:25:04 PM »
Except Eirin sells extremely beneficial to everyone at extremely low prices. She can wait a very long time for someone to repay their medicine.

Actually, I believe that PMiSS suggested that she might have ulterior motives as to why she does that, which can be easily be misinterpreted as Eirin slipping weird stuff into people's medicine, but I believe it's because she wants to quickly achieve her goal of being able to fit into human society. Fandom has definitely overdone the sadist thing.

I like sadist Yuuka, though. To an extent.  :derp:
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Savory

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2011, 05:31:18 PM »
I feel sorry for poor Yuukarin though. I mean her big debut from the PC-98 era and she gets branded as a sadist just because she admitted she was just teasing.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2011, 05:34:46 PM »
I feel sorry for poor Yuukarin though. I mean her big debut from the PC-98 era and she gets branded as a sadist just because she admitted she was just teasing.
She DID say on MS that Genocide is just a game for her, tho...

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2011, 05:35:55 PM »
despite Mystia coming back in POFV and one of them fighting games.

I don't recall Mystia showing up in either of the fighting games. o_O

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2011, 05:36:42 PM »
She DID say on MS that Genocide is just a game for her, tho...

Still a joke. She runs around POFV trolling people in a similar manner.

There's also the bit in MS where she "kills" one of the bosses.

Also, IIRC, Eirin apparently gave Aya nightmares to make her go away.

Also, I think she's referenced in the fighting games.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2011, 05:55:52 PM »
This question is interesting in that it is "Canon portrayals you wish got used more" and not "Fanon portrayals you wish got used less" (and I'm getting a sense that some people in this thread are blurring the two, though that may just be faulty reading comprehension). There are tons of answers to the latter, but for the former they're a bit harder to come by.

It might be good if people noticed this, so I'm quoting it.

That said, some portrayals I'd like to see used more include:

1) Haughty, prim, and proper Alice, possibly with her obsession over minute details like in PCB (like when she states the exact value of 2 divided by 7 as 28.5714).

2) Marisa as a mathematical genius.

3) Yuyuko appearing to be a flighty, whimsical woman to hide her deep wisdom and insight.

4) Devoted bodyguard Reisen.

Of course, more canon in general is a good thing in my opinion, but, like Kilga,

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Everyone else, for the most part, I either enjoy or ignore the comedic over-exaggerations of their character traits as I see fit.
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Savory

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2011, 06:00:55 PM »
I have no specifics. I want all of them too. Fanon has been used quite a lot, so it's refreshing to see canon portrayals every now and then.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2011, 06:02:10 PM »
Honestly, though, I'd take comedy over grimdark interpretations. Fucking Sanae's been turned into a psychobitch who hates everything and is on par with USC Yuuka because of her dialogue with Kogasa.
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Savory

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2011, 06:11:23 PM »
Honestly, though, I'd take comedy over grimdark interpretations. Fucking Sanae's been turned into a psychobitch who hates everything and is on par with USC Yuuka because of her dialogue with Kogasa.

Fortunately, it's a rare portrayal at best. But Sanae is still fairly new, so fandom hasn't infected her. Yet. If anything, she's the eccentric, archetype of the modern girl. I like how she's the character to whom we can say, "Yeah! You know what I'm talking about". She's easy to relate to and understand because she's from the same world as us.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2011, 06:25:05 PM »
I see a lot of people arguing about fanon Cirno, but what about Daiyousei?:V

I'd love to see more "mischievous little devil" Koakuma.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #52 on: June 21, 2011, 06:25:13 PM »
Psychobitch Sanae's gaining popularity amongst doujin authors doing stupid grimdark, like Stripe Pattern or that Koishi's Hearthumping Adventure series.

If there's anything I hate more than fandom twisting characters OOC, it's Touhou Grimdark. It's not even done for the sake of actual drama - it's just character abuse and "the author thinks [insert character here] is secretly evil!".
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #53 on: June 21, 2011, 06:40:50 PM »
Psychobitch Sanae's gaining popularity amongst doujin authors doing stupid grimdark, like Stripe Pattern or that Koishi's Hearthumping Adventure series.

If there's anything I hate more than fandom twisting characters OOC, it's Touhou Grimdark. It's not even done for the sake of actual drama - it's just character abuse and "the author thinks [insert character here] is secretly evil!".

Define your interpretation of "grimdark", if you wouldn't mind. I've been accused of my interpretation of Medicine as being grimdark, though I see her as someone who is childish and vehemently hates humans with every fiber of her being. This would be enough for her to want to kill humans, possibly even taking joy in it. Is that grimdark, even though I based this on everything I've seen of her in canon?
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #54 on: June 21, 2011, 06:53:18 PM »
That's... not OOC, actually. I'm talking crap like aforementioned Psycho Sanae.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #55 on: June 21, 2011, 06:54:21 PM »
Psychobitch Sanae's gaining popularity amongst doujin authors doing stupid grimdark, like Stripe Pattern or that Koishi's Hearthumping Adventure series.

If there's anything I hate more than fandom twisting characters OOC, it's Touhou Grimdark. It's not even done for the sake of actual drama - it's just character abuse and "the author thinks [insert character here] is secretly evil!".

I dunno, Sanae's dialogue in UFO is pretty much "KILL ALL YOUKAI!", over and over again. I think it's sorta forgivable to portray her as psycho in that context.

Except Eirin sells extremely beneficial to everyone at extremely low prices. She can wait a very long time for someone to repay their medicine.

(Except Aya. I think this is where this sadist crap comes from)

Maybe, but most of the sadist portrayal comes from Inaba of the Moon. See: "Punishment time~♪"

Nearly forgot: I want to see more sadistic, evil Mystia. I mean, look at what she does - blinding people with her song, and then selling them eel that can restore their sight? What a scheming little twerp! Could make for some really entertaining stories, I reckon.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #56 on: June 21, 2011, 07:16:23 PM »
Kaguya.  A civilized, proper princess, with a lack of practical knowledge, a penchant for spontaneous projects, and a habit of trolling and killing the hell out of Mokou to stave away boredom.  Plenty of things to do with that that don't involve World of Warcraft!

Marisa.  As I've said before, she is the one character in Gensokyo with literally no superpowers.  All her awesome magic?  She got it through dedication, hard work, and complete disregard for the concepts of property and exclusivity.  She does care about people, yes, CoLA and the fairies manga bear this out.  But like the other magicians, her goals, such as that huge immortality pill of hers, come first.  She's smart, smart-assed, prideful, easy to frustrate, and has no concern for her infamy, yet refuses to ditch the broom because that's how witches do it.  This is an actual character right here.  Reducing Marisa to "spark everything, ship everyone" is almost criminal.

Everyone in PCB.  Seriously.  Even Lily.  You know you're doing it wrong when you mess a character as simple as her up.  Yes, you can shoot me for shipping her with Yuuka.  But yelling about spring has taken the place of the fact that she literally IS spring, which is something that is much more interesting.  Don't even get me started on the Yakumos and Hakugyokurans...
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2011, 07:19:08 PM »
All I have to say, is that I want to see more of wise, yet ridiculously aloof Yuyuko from SWR. That just fits her to a T. Much better than the "ravenous glutton" shtick.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2011, 07:26:58 PM »
Canon portrayals, eh? Well, the one that I would like the most to see would be Keine. She's only Mokou's friend, she shouldn't be over-obsessive about her or anything like that. The CAVED thing has died, thankfully.

Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #59 on: June 21, 2011, 07:28:06 PM »
Nearly forgot: I want to see more sadistic, evil Mystia. I mean, look at what she does - blinding people with her song, and then selling them eel that can restore their sight? What a scheming little twerp! Could make for some really entertaining stories, I reckon.
Yeah, I wish we'd see more of the cunning, conniving Mystia instead of her just being fodder for Yuyuko.

I also wish we'd see less of the "idiot" Cirno and more of the "childish but still competent" Cirno.