Author Topic: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom  (Read 74907 times)

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #120 on: June 22, 2011, 04:30:17 AM »
Wait, they eat humans? Remilia's profile in PMISS states she drinks enough not to vampirize anyone and Flandre doesn't know there's blood in the cakes prepared.

Seriously, those threats aren't exceptional. Patchouli threatens to turn Marisa and Reimu into vitamins, Mystia wants to eat you, and Reimu threatens to bury Marisa and Alice alive or something like that.

Also, Sakuya being a pedophile is an offshoot of the Remilia/Sakuya pairing, because, damn.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 04:32:40 AM by JackMackerel »
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #121 on: June 22, 2011, 04:33:14 AM »
Well, Sakuya has to get that blood from somewhere.  :derp:

And I'm quite sure she wouldn't want to have to donate blood daily to mix into her mistresses' meals, light eaters or not.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #122 on: June 22, 2011, 04:34:17 AM »
Sakuya's cold-hearted, thats really all there is to it. I mean, Who ever heard of a character who's past is shrouded in mystery that ISNT some kind of d-bag?

Also yes, Technically they do eat humans. A vampire needs to feed often, and with two feeding on one person that person is going to die eventually.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #123 on: June 22, 2011, 04:37:33 AM »
Well, Sakuya has to get that blood from somewhere.  :derp:

And I'm quite sure she wouldn't want to have to donate blood daily to mix into her mistresses' meals, light eaters or not.

My headcanon suspects she does, actually. Wouldn't surprise me if Remilia has a deal with someone for fresh blood.

As PMISS says, Remilia doesn't drain enough to kill or vampirise. It sounds like it's less than a regular blood donation.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 04:42:29 AM by JackMackerel »
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #124 on: June 22, 2011, 04:42:39 AM »
AFAIK Flan is too... brutal to just drink blood, so she eats human meat (Without knowing this herself, that is).

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #125 on: June 22, 2011, 04:43:53 AM »
Though Sakuya hasn't made many scary threats since Perfect Cherry Blossom. At least not to my knowledge. Can't remember much of the dialogue from the fighters, but I do know that she hated Tenshi with a passion. But yes, she's mellowed out since then. I suppose that comes from the fact that  Sakuya has had more exposure to other humans rather than just youkai whilst living in Gensokyo.


Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #126 on: June 22, 2011, 04:46:15 AM »
Quote
They went on a rampage when they first appeared in Gensokyo, lost against powerful youkai, and settled down after agreeing to a contract (*2). The details of this contract are that the youkai will offer them humans from which to feed (*3); in return, the vampires will not attack humans living in Gensokyo.

Quote
3: It is said these are humans from the outside world or those whose deaths are of no consequence (suicidal, etc.).

From the PMiSS article on vampires.

So yes, Remilia and Flandre subsist on the blood of humans from outside the border who wander in or who are already going to die anyway.

Seriously, those threats aren't exceptional. Patchouli threatens to turn Marisa and Reimu into vitamins, Mystia wants to eat you, and Reimu threatens to bury Marisa and Alice alive or something like that.

...what? Where does this come from and what does this have to do with anything?

AFAIK Flan is too... brutal to just drink blood, so she eats human meat (Without knowing this herself, that is).

Quote
When vampires attack humans, they generally try to take their prey alive so that they can suck its blood afterward, but Flandre has always been fed with cooked dishes, so she doesn't know how to properly attack a human. Whenever she tries to attack a human, she can't control herself and blows them away without leaving a spot of blood.

Perhaps she can't tell that her daily meals are made from living humans.

Her meals look like such harmless foodstuffs as cake and tea, after all...

Flandre's EoSD profile.

So yeah, she doesn't know that her food comes from humans, so when she attacks them she destroys them completely. Sakuya puts meat and blood in her tea and cake without her knowing.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #127 on: June 22, 2011, 04:47:23 AM »
Quote
...what? Where does this come from and what does this have to do with anything?

The games, and it's regarding Sakuya's threats to Chen/whatever.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #128 on: June 22, 2011, 04:47:51 AM »
My headcanon suspects she does, actually. Wouldn't surprise me if Remilia has a deal with someone for fresh blood.

Vampire contract made with Yukari after the vampire invasion in Gensokyo states that youkai can only eat humans from the outside world, which Yukari periodically spirits away into Gensokyo.

Remilia, in one of her winquotes in IAMP, I believe, tells Yukari that she should spirit away more humans to Gensokyo, IE "Bring more food."

EDIT: Squidy beat me to it.  :colonveeplusalpha:
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #129 on: June 22, 2011, 04:49:28 AM »
Oh, oops.  I meant there's nothing to indicate she's the rampaging raging ANGRY type of psychopathic killer.  IE, the way fandom portrays her.

Never said she wasn't a "perfect and elegant" cold hearted killer (which is also psychopathic, if I have the definition of the word correct, but in an entirely different sense).  Fandom however (almost) never portrays her as that.  Instead we always see her spazzing out about pad jokes or catching Mei Ling sleeping on the job.

...in fact, fandom seems to stay away from touching the whole "Sakuya murders humans" thing in general for some reason.  Probably because it's too grimdark for the Touhou series.

On that tangent, I'm not sure how serious Sakuya was about killing people, given that tons of youkai claim to eat people but that's just posturing.  The context of Sakuya's quotes indicates she too might just be posturing (then again, maybe she's serious, too.)

Flandre's profile says her food is "made from living humans".  And that they just "look like harmless foodstuffs as cake and tea".  This could be interpreted as actual human meat being made to look like harmless foodstuffs, or maybe they just have blood mixed in.  It's interpretable either way, I guess, tho IMHO more likely the former interpretation (actual human meat)

In Perfect Memento in the Strict Sense, it's stated that the vampires (presumably Remilia and Flandre) have a contract with the youkai to get humans from the outside world for food, and it's stated these humans dissappear from the outside world "forever" being written off as suicides, etc.  There is probably room to believe that the humans are simply drained of a little blood, although me personally in my own interpretation, I believe they actually get killed and Sakuya cooks them up for Flandre (her food is made out of LIVING humans.  Fresh meat!) and the rest of the youkai in the SDM.  Akyu also states there's no worry about Mei Ling eating you (the human reader) because "her meals are provided by the Scarlet Devil mansion", which I interpret as meaning Mei Ling won't eat human you because she gets plenty of human meat from the Scarlet Devil Mansion.

Perfect Cherry Blossom's prologue also states that youkai chef teams go out to get humans from the outside world (and setting things so it looks like they were suicides, etc) to eat.  I'm not sure if Perfect Memento retconned that into the vampire contract, or if the general youkai population of gensokyo gets humans to eat that way, themselves (while also doing that for the vampires too due to the contract),  PCB's prologue would thus imply certain other youkai besides just Yukari can come and go from the outside world at will.

Fandom practically never touches on any of that, though.  Maybe it's too grimdark for the Touhou series even if it's canon (probably. Again, slightly open to interpretation and translation issues).  The fandom is willing to grimdark a lot of Touhou, but cupcakes made out of people and such a human-ish youkai like Mei Ling as an actual human-eater is probably a bit much for a lot of people (tho despite being a very human-ish youkai, it's canonically confirmed Mei Ling herself is fine with eating humans, as shown by her EoSD dialogue, even if she's just joking that the rules should allow her to eat shrine maidens).




....ARGH, lots of people beat me to it.




Oh, forgot to mention.  Reimu being greedy is also canon, although like Mei Ling's laziness, the extent is debatable (Me personally, I think she's mainly just greedy to the point where she needs/wants her shrine situation to be improved.  Right now almost no one visits and that's probably semi-depressing for her sometimes when she bothers to care about it).  It's explicity stated in one of her story paths for UFO that she's going after the treasure ship for the treasure.  And of course, you can't really ignore her insistence to Sakuya in IaMP "The offeratory box is over there!"  And then in Wild and Horned Hermit Reimu is practically spazzing with glee at the merchandising opportunities that Kanako and Suwako's latest scheme might bring her.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #130 on: June 22, 2011, 04:53:20 AM »
There's a story by Stripe Pattern that makes her backstory out to be a serial killer, for those of you into that.

(I prefer the Lunarian Vampire Hunter fanon thing... for some bizarre reason.)

PMISS still has the "youkai teams go to the outside world on occasion", if I recall.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #131 on: June 22, 2011, 05:00:48 AM »
Oh, forgot to mention.  Reimu being greedy is also canon, although like Mei Ling's laziness, the extent is debatable (Me personally, I think she's mainly just greedy to the point where she needs/wants her shrine situation to be improved.  Right now almost no one visits and that's probably semi-depressing for her sometimes when she bothers to care about it).  It's explicity stated in one of her story paths for UFO that she's going after the treasure ship for the treasure.  And of course, you can't really ignore her insistence to Sakuya in IaMP "The offeratory box is over there!"  And then in Wild and Horned Hermit Reimu is practically spazzing with glee at the merchandising opportunities that Kanako and Suwako's latest scheme might bring her.

I have the feeling that Reimu's greedy personality was something of a fleeting trait. It doesn't really rear its head often in canon.

And I dunno, Meiling seems rather enthusiastic about her job (especially in Hisou, geez), so I wouldn't write her off as lazy. I mean PMiSS says she has a scheduled nap time every noon.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #132 on: June 22, 2011, 05:06:57 AM »
There's a story by Stripe Pattern that makes her backstory out to be a serial killer, for those of you into that.

(I prefer the Lunarian Vampire Hunter fanon thing... for some bizarre reason.)

PMISS still has the "youkai teams go to the outside world on occasion", if I recall.

I like the vampire hunter theory, too. It makes sense that someone as strongwilled as Sakuya would become a youkai's servant because she was beaten in battle. I also support the 'Sakuya is a lunarian' theory because it would explain why she's so cold to humans. Lunarians see humans as nothing but filthy beings that live in a filthy world, after all.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #133 on: June 22, 2011, 05:11:28 AM »
Reimu's greediness is likely meant to be more of a side trait than the full on main character trait that fandom sometimes gives her.  I don't see most fandoms do that to her thaaaaat often tho, fortunately.

Mei Ling takes her job seriously.  There's no arguing about that, I'd think.  It's just that it's canon that she sometimes falls asleep on it (which she does in Hisou, for example).  Again, the main debatable part is the extent.

Also, I'm not sure if the scheduled nap at noon is her employer's schedule, or HER schedule (if it's the latter, that'd be pretty funny).  Sakuya's advertisement specifically says there aren't supposed to be any breaks for Scarlet Devil Mansion employees, IIRC, tho to what extent that applies to Mei Ling is unknown.

Oh, it's also canon that she gets teased sometimes.  Remilia in BAiJR KNOWS there's nothing Mei Ling can do about the flower patterns but orders Mei Ling to fix it anyways for the lolz  (at least, that's what Mei Ling claims).  Tho that's still no where near the physical abuse fandom sees Mei Ling go through (or worse, "China")

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #134 on: June 22, 2011, 05:13:56 AM »
Most people seem to think that Eirin also took the Hourai Elixir, thus making her immortal.  However, there's no implication at all that she ever took it.  Plus, Inaba shows that she is capable of dying.  In chapter 7, she said she "glimpsed the other side" when Kaguya almost strangled her with a leek.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 05:24:29 AM by game2011 »

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #135 on: June 22, 2011, 05:22:13 AM »
Yeah, that bothers me. She's just insanely old.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #136 on: June 22, 2011, 05:24:53 AM »
Also, Kaguya's rivalry with Mokou doesn't seem to be all that serious in Inaba, but I can get why people like to portray their rivalry in a serious way due to Touhou 8 making it sound like that.

Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #137 on: June 22, 2011, 05:30:13 AM »
People think Eirin took the hourai elixir because one of her spell cards is named that, I believe.  What they don't realize is that  that spell card is KAGUYA"S Spell card.  Kaguya specifically says she's going to help Eirin out and joins Eirin for that spellcard.

......er, I think.

Also, Eirin made the hourai elixir, so some people think she took it because of that.  But really, it's only confirmed she made it, not drank it.

Doesn't she
Spoiler:
visit the netherworld
in the ghost team ending while Kaguya can't due to the hourai elixir, anyways?  IIRC.


ZUN actually states in Mokou's profile that her and Kaguya killing each other is their paradise.  So Inaba's portrayal of it is probably not too far off.  Furthermore, Kaguya and Mokou work together to stop a forest fire that resulted from one of their fights.  And Mokou freaks out and feels sad when she thinks Kaguya is leaving/abandoning her in Cage in Lunatic Runagate (tho she eventually comes to terms with how she can still keep living her life in Gensokyo with friends even if Kaguya ever really does leave)

Both Mokou and Kaguya know that they can't die.  So killing each other is really more of a past time than anything (and brought some actual excitement to Mokou's life in an otherwise unending hell of loneliness, which would go on to eventually wake Mokou up to being able to make friends again and come to terms with herself as shown by Cage in Lunatic Runagate).  Tho they still feel pain and thus it can still be annoying, which is probably the reason for Mokou's generally serious (and annoyed) tone in IN regarding the issue.  (tho on a side note, likely mainly for dramatic purposes, almost EVERY touhou character is at their most serious in their first appearance, and is shown in a more mellow light in later games)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 05:33:42 AM by Tiamat »

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #138 on: June 22, 2011, 05:36:13 AM »
IIRC, Mokou's profile is something like being excited at the oppurtunity to fight the princess.

I hate "Evil Kaguya looks for ways to mindrape/fuck with Mokou" and vice versa.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #139 on: June 22, 2011, 05:39:58 AM »
Well, I do believe Eirin herself states that she keeps her youth with drugs and stuff, not necessarily because of the hourai elixir. Also, Lunarians seem to be immortal by nature, but not all the way. This means yes, they have eternal youth, but they can still be killed. Kaguya, having had the elixir, still has her eternal youth, but now she can't be killed.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #140 on: June 22, 2011, 06:05:31 AM »
Doesn't she
Spoiler:
visit the netherworld
in the ghost team ending while Kaguya can't due to the hourai elixir, anyways?  IIRC.
Correct. 
Spoiler:
Yuyuko also politely tries to poison her so she'd stay in the netherworld, something she wouldn't bother with if Eirin had taken the Elixer.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #141 on: June 22, 2011, 06:07:58 AM »
Well, I do believe Eirin herself states that she keeps her youth with drugs and stuff, not necessarily because of the hourai elixir. Also, Lunarians seem to be immortal by nature, but not all the way. This means yes, they have eternal youth, but they can still be killed. Kaguya, having had the elixir, still has her eternal youth, but now she can't be killed.
Actually, I believe that ZUN stated somewhere that Lunarians are pretty much buffed up youkai: As durable as one, powerful, can live as long as one, and maybe even smarter then most. To think that lunarians are technically humans too...

Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #142 on: June 22, 2011, 06:09:18 AM »
Yorihime says something in SSIB about how it's the impure earth that makes one become impure and thus prone to mortality in SSiB, IIRC.  I don't recall the exact words but it was something like that.  However, Eirin's been on earth for a while now and she sure seems fine as ever.

Also, it's stated somewhere (CiLR?) that all the rabbits from the original youkai invasion are long gone by now so presumably they're mortal even on the moon.  If I recall correctly

Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #143 on: June 22, 2011, 08:42:13 PM »
I feel utterly demasculated by the indepth Touhou knowledge of people in this topic. Wow. I tried to write a short story once about Yukari until I realised I hadn't a clue how she actually talks. That and other things mean I tend to not write TH fiction.

One of the things that gets me about the series as well: apart from Reimu and Marisa, most of the characters don't have that much to draw upon when you're thinking about them. How much is there about the Aki sisters, for example? They smell tasty and are harvest gods. That's really about it.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #144 on: June 22, 2011, 08:45:54 PM »
I feel utterly demasculated by the indepth Touhou knowledge of people in this topic. Wow. I tried to write a short story once about Yukari until I realised I hadn't a clue how she actually talks. That and other things mean I tend to not write TH fiction.

One of the things that gets me about the series as well: apart from Reimu and Marisa, most of the characters don't have that much to draw upon when you're thinking about them. How much is there about the Aki sisters, for example? They smell tasty and are harvest gods. That's really about it.

Read the canon manga, look at the profiles and scripts on Touhou wiki (either of them, but en.touhouwiki.com is updated more often and has less cruft), and definitely read Perfect Momento in Strict Sense.

Or, better yet, play the games. :P
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #145 on: June 22, 2011, 09:13:03 PM »
I have played the games, but with the English patch on there aren't many characters with a distinctive speaking vocab other than Marisa, Orin and Cirno. I can't tell how accurate it is to the original Japanese since I can read about 10 pieces of hiragana and don't have the foggiest about katagana.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #146 on: June 22, 2011, 09:30:54 PM »
Reading the official profiles of the characters on the Touhou Wiki will give you plenty of canon material. DO NOT regard "Fun Facts" as a reliable source - they are often uncited statements that use language such as "Many consider" or "A great deal of fans believe" and so forth.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #147 on: June 22, 2011, 09:35:42 PM »
Reading the official profiles of the characters on the Touhou Wiki will give you plenty of canon material. DO NOT regard "Fun Facts" as a reliable source - they are often uncited statements that use language such as "Many consider" or "A great deal of fans believe" and so forth.
aka, "some argue".

Also, read the in-game quotes. (you can read most if not all of them at touhouwiki.net) The fighting games are a great source of character-to-character quotes, that give a good idea of how they interact in canon.

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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #148 on: June 22, 2011, 09:40:19 PM »
Yorihime says something in SSIB about how it's the impure earth that makes one become impure and thus prone to mortality in SSiB, IIRC.  I don't recall the exact words but it was something like that.  However, Eirin's been on earth for a while now and she sure seems fine as ever.

This may have something to do with Kaguya using her power over eternity.  I remember a bit in CiLR about the fact that nothing within Eientei actually changed due to it until they opened up to the rest of Gensokyo.  'Course, I haven't read CiLR in a while.
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Re: Canon portrayals that you wish got used more in fandom
« Reply #149 on: June 22, 2011, 09:43:41 PM »
Eientei's weird. Eirin says it technically has no written history, thanks to Kaguya's eternal thing.
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