Labyrinth of Touhou 6F

[NEETori]

That explains why they were such a pain until Marisa out-ran them...
Look on the bright side.  They're not the goddamn golems.

[Ghaleon]

eh, I hate them way more than the golems.

[NEETori]

I hated the Spiral Divers, up until Marisa began to match them in speed.
Asteroid Belt did everything.  The golems were a pain for me even once I got to Yukari

[Ghaleon]

I typically have Remi out for trash instead of China or someone else. I guess she's just really good at dealing with particularly tough enemies (especially since she is fast enough to get the jump on them twice before they move)

[NEETori]

That explains a lot. 
I typically use Komachi for my randoms.  And I built her mostly HP up through 20F, so she couldn't hit anything very hard.

Although now she can hit like a truck .  Now I use either her or Keine, Keine being slightly more flexible.

[Dr.Strafe]

I typically use Komachi for my randoms.  And I built her mostly HP up through 20F, so she couldn't hit anything very hard.

Pretty much the same thing here: HP all the way. I've never worried about her strength since she almost always casts Narrow Confines of Avici. I have other, more dedicated attackers anyway.

I don't remember who was around during my trips through 13F. Patchy was always present, but everyone else rotated around in preparation for the upcoming bosses.

[Tangrelle]

Ahoohoo, currently doing an NG+ with all the Plus Disk characters, Reimu, Marisa, Rumia, and Suika. I can't help but think I could replace Marisa with someone tanky, though, seeing as the Plus Disk set lacks anyone all that tanky minus the one. If anyone had advice regarding this, I wouldn't mind :>

Anyway, my actual point is I'm wondering if someone had an image like the one in this video. I'm no good at ripping images, and I was wondering if it was possible to manage to get that Kanako out of the background, because I would love to have it as a chara-stand <3

[Barrakketh]

Anyway, my actual point is I'm wondering if someone had an image like the one in this video. I'm no good at ripping images, and I was wondering if it was possible to manage to get that Kanako out of the background, because I would love to have it as a chara-stand <3

I'm partial to this Kanako:



That said, here (Danbooru link) is the full size image from that video.  Have fun editing it

[NEETori]

Ahoohoo, currently doing an NG+ with all the Plus Disk characters, Reimu, Marisa, Rumia, and Suika. I can't help but think I could replace Marisa with someone tanky, though, seeing as the Plus Disk set lacks anyone all that tanky minus the one. If anyone had advice regarding this, I wouldn't mind :>

I'd probably put China, Tenshi or Komachi in place of Marisa, since the plus disk characters AND Rumia give you a ton of mystic damage (Yuuka Master Spark, Giga Flare, Liberated Abilities, Moonlight Ray, Dark Side of the Moon, all plentiful).  Personally I'd take China since she's the most flexible tank in the game, due to her massive HP, reasonably high defense, passable mind, and self-heal (Komachi really needs Minoriko, MAG Sanae or Eirin to heal her due to her massive HP and tiny defenses, Tenshi struggles with Rasetsu Fist, but this is a lesser point). 

Keine should be bulky enough early on, especially if you build her for defense, mind and HP, but will quickly fall behind.

Alternatively you can use a defensive Kourin or Remilia, with Remi being able to buff herself.

[Ghaleon]

Honestly I think China is hands down the best tank period. Not using her is nothing but a crutch I think. As for replacing Marisa with her, I was thinking replace Rumia. As you said there is oodles of mystic damage going around already. Mystia is there to cure debuffs already, Reimu is there for the good healing, while yuuka is there for the dinky heal thing (probably worthless but demarcation isn't much of a heal at regular levels either). And well, having utsuho and eiki in your party should really make Dark side of the moon pretty useless.

Oh, and Marisa is good for trash, and plus disk characters kinda suck at that since their spells are so expensive as a baseline.

[Eliirae]

Forgive me for being stupid, but wouldn't using an all plus disk team be kinda difficult, considering half of them or so won't even have the SP to attack for the first couple of floors?  It also doesn't help that those same characters are mage-types, so they can't even use the attack feature to make themselves useful  :ohdear:

Or maybe I'm over thinking things, just like how I can't seem to do a NG+ run myself because I can never stick on a team to use.

[Ghaleon]

Forgive me for being stupid, but wouldn't using an all plus disk team be kinda difficult, considering half of them or so won't even have the SP to attack for the first couple of floors?  It also doesn't help that those same characters are mage-types, so they can't even use the attack feature to make themselves useful  :ohdear:

Or maybe I'm over thinking things, just like how I can't seem to do a NG+ run myself because I can never stick on a team to use.

I always have Reimu, china, remi, and patchy, and until recently, Marisa. The 4(5?) of them can pretty much handle everything on their own fairly well already. Actually I rekon you could do a 4 man run with them at lower levels than Pesco's 9team run if you're willing to reset some fights sometimes due to patchy taking a single-target physical to the face during some bosses. Marisa is useful to those 4 because of her burst ability which the whole team lacks. If you have a buncha glass cannons otherwise she probably wont be as important.

[Tangrelle]

Forgive me for being stupid, but wouldn't using an all plus disk team be kinda difficult, considering half of them or so won't even have the SP to attack for the first couple of floors?  It also doesn't help that those same characters are mage-types, so they can't even use the attack feature to make themselves useful  :ohdear:

Or maybe I'm over thinking things, just like how I can't seem to do a NG+ run myself because I can never stick on a team to use.

It is a little hard at first, but all Plus Disk characters have at least one attack at 100 SP or under. I mostly tend to use Mystia to trash clean, and Keine does it fine as well. Otherwise, I'm shuffling through the Plus Disc's many nukes <3

I decided to drop both Marisa and Rumia, and replace them with a Mind-based Kaguya, and a China, seeing as all the Plus Disc characters are sort of not tanks, and the ones with tank stats have spells geared for assault </3 I haven't tried a Mindguya before, on note, which is why I plan to use her and her Stone Bowl of Buddha :>

[NEETori]

I imagine Mindguya as being a slightly less awesome mind tank than Iku (same growths, but Kaguya's health is WAY lower, and also levels slightly slower).  Buddha's Stone Bowl is also a slightly more flexible buff than Thundercloud Stickleback, but boosts your offensive force less, although now that I think about it, the only offensive buffs not including Kaggy you have are self-buffs. 

Good thing the Plus Disc Characters have massive stats

[Ghaleon]

Mindguya is the only guya as far as I've done (stone bowl is the pwnz, why use other dinky magic)... She's sadly not much of a mnd tank. She's basically like mag-patchy, gimp HP and all. Yeah she can take some spellhits, but you still need to treat her like q back row only character pretty much.

[NEETori]

Le gasp!
To actually be serious though, I like my magic hybrid Kaggy.  60k/40k compared to the same type of Patchy's 70k/50k magic/mind, four times the defense (16k as opposed to Pachy's less than 4k), and an extra 5k HP (22k versus 17k), Kaggy 270, Patchy 258.

Of course, for mind tanking and attack or magic buffing, Iku smokes them both at 44k HP, 50k Mind (Iku 270)
My Iku is comparatively underleveled to my Kaguya (I used Kaguya EXTENSIVELY during grinding, while Iku only comes in for bosses)

[Ghaleon]

Doesn't matter if you use the character or not. they all get 100% exp as long as they part of your 12 team. that 100/90/80% thing got turned into 100/100/80 with 2.0 I believe.. sometime. I know it's 100/80 now though.

[NEETori]

Iku doesn't leave the SDM unless it's a boss, while Kaguya goes out pretty often to go grinding as a high-power nuker

[spookedmoose]

@Tangrelle: Here's the Kanako image you wanted as a charagraph (MediaFire: File "LoT_Kanako")

[NEETori]

I've been thinking about how I've underrated Yuyuko as an attacker.  Sure, her magic's really mediocre, especially for an attacker (Reimu, Minoriko and Sanae can get away with it cuz they're healers, Rumia gets away with it because she's faster-leveling, so it balances out), but now that I think of it, a non-overleveled or high-priority geared Nitori (for example, I gave my only Gurthang, my other Gold Cloth, and my only Gantz Suit to her) also has a mediocre power.  I think Yuyuko might be able to shine via pure unadulterated wtf-high formula. 

Of course, it's too late for my Yuyuko, since I've essentially ruined her with a SP/Mind heavy build. 

[Ghaleon]

Currently I have yuyu in my current game, I'm only on floor 13f though so she's still only able to cast 1 nuke before being OOM. Probably going to be dead weight until floor 27 >=P.

I don't expect her to dish out as much damage as most pure nukes can. But give her some favorable gear and I rekon she'll come close, and unlike those nukes, she'll be hard to take out. Kinda like Kanako I guess. I'm hoping she'll do better sustained damage than kanako though since her big nuke has a relatively tame delay unlike Suiga.

[Esoterica]

I lost interest at 21F, but Yuyuko was by far one of my most powerful nukes, even if she had horrid SP issues.  She did most of the damage to the 20f boss for me.

[Parallaxal]

I guess I'm weird for going full-MAG with Kaguya every time I use her? I like handing her buffs and watching Hourai Barrage put up ridiculous numbers against stuff like Bloody Papa and the Hibachis. She also absolutely destroys floor trash, sort of like Patchy with more speed.  I treat her as a glass cannon, and almost never use Stone Bowl. I just switch out all high-delay nukers instead, or use Yukari's Spiriting Away. It's just my style.

[NEETori]

I think I like the flexibility of hybrid Kaguya, since she gives me options.  I can have blast stuff with Hourai Barrage for massive damage, or have her help Shiki/Nitori along whenever it's more profitable to have her get them to attack twice.  She doesn't deal as much damage as your MAGuya or Ghaleon's MNDguya's staying power, but I'm happy. 

I swear, I don't know what the creators were thinking when they created Mystia.  So.  Freaking.  Awesome. 

[Ghaleon]

I thought I was the only one who DIDNT pump mag into Kaggy based on everyone's comments on her nukes and whatnot.
Horai Barrage is indeed powerful, but is it really much more powerful than a 2nd koi3s+the atk buff kaggy's buff provides, or a bonus royal flare, or whatever? Not only does it effectively double+ buff the nuker of your choice (and since it's 1 person of your selection it's actually pretty easy to make the buff use the full action bar without excessive pre-battle planning), but because you know you'll get a 2nd attack right away, you can royal flare instead of silent selene, or plant mystia's poison before continuing to use her rapid nuke, etc.

It's just that double hibachi is the only situation where I think Kaggy can outdo every other potential nuke. And due to the nature of their hp formula adjusting itself based on the other's health, that benefit is pretty moot too. In my current playthru I have Eiki, I rekon they will be a good combo *awsomeface*.

[CP3]

I guess I'm weird for going full-MAG with Kaguya every time I use her? I like handing her buffs and watching Hourai Barrage put up ridiculous numbers against stuff like Bloody Papa and the Hibachis. She also absolutely destroys floor trash, sort of like Patchy with more speed.  I treat her as a glass cannon, and almost never use Stone Bowl. I just switch out all high-delay nukers instead, or use Yukari's Spiriting Away. It's just my style.

I use 100% MAG Kaguya as well because of the power of Hourai Barrage. Her DD is pretty good, excellent in some fights and still very good against anything that doesn't resist SPI.

Horai Barrage is indeed powerful, but is it really much more powerful than a 2nd koi3s+the atk buff kaggy's buff provides, or a bonus royal flare, or whatever? Not only does it effectively double+ buff the nuker of your choice (and since it's 1 person of your selection it's actually pretty easy to make the buff use the full action bar without excessive pre-battle planning), but because you know you'll get a 2nd attack right away, you can royal flare instead of silent selene, or plant mystia's poison before continuing to use her rapid nuke, etc.

It's just that double hibachi is the only situation where I think Kaggy can outdo every other potential nuke. And due to the nature of their hp formula adjusting itself based on the other's health, that benefit is pretty moot too. In my current playthru I have Eiki, I rekon they will be a good combo *awsomeface*.

Hourai Barrage probably can't outdo 3SKO in most fights, but it can easily beat Royal Flare. I'd rather avoid having both Kaguya and Patch out in a lot of fights anyways. If you treat Kaguya like a glass cannon and buff her MAG with Iku, Keine, Ran or whoever (if I missed anyone), then I do think Hourai Barrage is better than a second shot of hell of a lot of things, especially in some fights.

This led me to using Stone Bowl situationally, but I was using Kaguya as an attacker first and foremost. I guess it's a matter of taste.

[Esoterica]

I guess I'm weird for going full-MAG with Kaguya every time I use her? I like handing her buffs and watching Hourai Barrage put up ridiculous numbers against stuff like Bloody Papa and the Hibachis. She also absolutely destroys floor trash, sort of like Patchy with more speed.  I treat her as a glass cannon, and almost never use Stone Bowl. I just switch out all high-delay nukers instead, or use Yukari's Spiriting Away. It's just my style.

I tried MND Kaguya, she seems horrible to me.  Didn't have enough mnd to shut damage out, didn't have enough HP to take the minor hits, and damage numbers were exceedingly unimpressive.

[Ghaleon]

I tried MND Kaguya, she seems horrible to me.  Didn't have enough mnd to shut damage out, didn't have enough HP to take the minor hits, and damage numbers were exceedingly unimpressive.

Yeah, she's definitely not a tank when you build her mind. She's just not going to croak after a single ether flare or whatever. And she should take 0s from the weaker spell nukes like element wind, dancing leaves, etc. And the whole point of using her as a mind build isn't do damage, it's to stone bowl >=P.

As for royal flare+koi3, etc. My point wasn't for those two spells specifically. If you want to treat it on a per spell basis, consider croaking frog, eiki's nuke, starbrow break (though that's a bit of a waste normally since its low delay and flan is fast), Megawatt cannon, etc. Also consider that bowl has a smaller delay time than the barrage as well. I mean I know you probably switch her out after using barrage, but sticking around until you need to switch out has its uses too (I suspect this is why people have a hard time on 18f or whatever, keeping people out who can survive for longer gives you better endurance). Royal flare is however better when your target is weak to fire, or strong to spirit. Or if you have significantly better mag on patchy than you do Kaggy (if you build kaggy for mag it should be pretty comparable but who knows about equipment and skillpoints).

Basically stone bowl has the potential to do everything anybody else can do only better pretty much, except for Yukari's spiriting away. So unless barrage is your absolute best no comparison nuke, or if your only other nukes are too squishy and/or unavailable, stone bowl should easily be the better option provided that you keep it in mind when you're watching action bars.

I don't know why I'ms aying this. I'm not trying to convince people anything here. Just that mnd kaggy has her uses too, and as I've said, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who does that anyway *shrugs*

[Esoterica]

Yeah, she's definitely not a tank when you build her mind. She's just not going to croak after a single ether flare or whatever. And she should take 0s from the weaker spell nukes like element wind, dancing leaves, etc. And the whole point of using her as a mind build isn't do damage, it's to stone bowl >=P.

Her MND still isn't that great, though.  And my point is the slight increase in survivability doesn't come close to being able to throw out a Hourai Barrage and actually get numbers to pop up.  I use her for stone bowl too, but her effectiveness in the role doesn't decrease much with a mag build, while her damage output drop is quite noticeable.

[NEETori]

Basically stone bowl has the potential to do everything anybody else can do only better pretty much, except for Yukari's spiriting away. So unless barrage is your absolute best no comparison nuke, or if your only other nukes are too squishy and/or unavailable, stone bowl should easily be the better option provided that you keep it in mind when you're watching action bars.

Basically I think it comes down to:
-Is it weak to spirit?
-Is an ally's nuke stronger than Hourai Barrage?  Is ally's ATK/MAG higher than Kaguya's MAG?
-PLAYSTYLE

to say which attack is more useful.  Ghaleon favors more rocksteady characters, so Stonebowl is comparatively better, because it drastically improves the few (if any) glass cannons he may have, while it seems as most of us prefer glass cannons, so having another glass cannon never really hurt anyone. 

Also - Kaguya's flat out yummy mind, amazing affinities make her awesome at laughing off spells with bad penetration power.  I've been neglecting her affinities, though.  And her defense is way better than Patchy's so sitting in the last position, she should be fairly safe, even with a full-magic build.