Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F  (Read 183715 times)

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #570 on: January 30, 2011, 05:16:05 AM »
affinities don't actually help with spells with low piercing ability as much, it's the other way around. Since affinities are factored in AFTER the mag/mnd/whatever formulas.

Another reason why I like having characters like a mndguya is because I don't care about her magic, hence, I don't need to give her equipment that boosts magic. I can focus on pure defensive gear like twilight robes and whatnot, without gimping her usefulness at all.. Kinda like you put wriggle in tank gear, not because her role is a tank mostly, but because even without atk/mnd, her role is still going to be just as effective. Then my real nukes can hoard all the best magic gear.

Edit, almost done 13f yay..Everyone is still slower than the spiral divers sans aya though. Even with a total of +50% spd and 2000 skillpoint cost into speed, mystia is still too slow. I got 4 effing bunny headbands and 0 blue sabers booo. them bunny things are almost as rare a drop too, (and the actual bunny snipers are less common than the knights) boo!
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 05:19:25 AM by Ghaleon »

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #571 on: January 30, 2011, 06:13:33 AM »
Fair enough.  Although Wriggle ends up pretty much as a tank though :P

Right - Affinities don't help too much with bad piercing, especially on super-high-mind characters, like MND-Iku or Patchy in general, but Kaguya Cannon's mind is high, but not enough to neutralize everything - hence her awesome affinities help.

Mystia's speed growth is "merely" a B-rank growth. 

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #572 on: January 30, 2011, 08:12:20 AM »
Yeah mystia's speed isn't uber, but her leveling speed is pretty good to make up for it, and really, she's about as fast as they come (along with Marisa, and behind aya) with multitarget OMFG KILL IT NOW nukes (chen's is row target, and spiral divers Can also sit atthe back...) so really, they suck =p

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #573 on: January 30, 2011, 09:32:05 AM »
That, and I think Chen needs Kimontonku to kill them at those levels, IIRC, which makes her run out of SP fast while dungeon crawling. 

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #574 on: January 30, 2011, 10:03:39 AM »
Say, what's up with the level reccommendations for these bosses? I'm just about done floor 14 now and my Reimu is 61 (haven't done yuyu and Orin yet, haven't tried bedtime too soon) ..Which is fine I guess but those suggestions seem pretty high, but fine ok so I don't agree.. but but. the next floor says:

Great stamp:60-70
(for example Orin is 70-75 ).
Really? I haven't even set foot in 15f, and I'm already the recommended level for its harder sigil guardian? And it's natural to do it BEFORE Orin? (who I always do before walking into 15f).

Basically, It's a bit late to start now, but should I record levels just to see if any of these numbers for other bosses may or may not be a bit off? Assuming this playthru is anything like my last, I'm anal about exploring ever bit of every floor's map (even 7f), but I never actually grind except for 27f and maybe 20f (I forget, I think I have to before maribel). So anything significantly lower than mine (like great stamp will be!) should be next to impossible without intentionally going out of your way not spending exp or running away from numerous battles, etc.

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #575 on: January 30, 2011, 11:02:57 AM »
Great Stamp is definitely easier than Orin provided you're using the right strategy.  Then again, Orin isn't hard if you're using the right strategy either.

I did Great Stamp at your levels, but I had to grind for Orin, if that helps.  I didn't have the right strategy (that, and she liked to snipe Patchy with Cat's Walk -> Cat's Walk).  I essentially stole Parallaxal's strategy (had Meiling and Tenshi tank, Reisen come in and tear the thing's stats apart, and nuked using Nitori, Yuugi and Suika and other characters who I cannot remember).

Tangrelle

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #576 on: January 30, 2011, 06:22:19 PM »
When I played before, my party was pretty much wiped by those things you fight before Orin, so in the end I literally won with just Tenshi and Wriggle. The pattern was pretty much like:

Tenshi: State of Enlightenement, Wriggle switchin, Wriggle switchout, focus, focus, repeat.
Wriggle: PoisonpoisonPOISON

It was pretty scary there, and Wriggle took a  hit or two, but I felt awesome doing it |D

EDIT: On the note, I'm trying to recall if there are any useful Wind nukes. My mind's drawing a blank.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 07:33:19 PM by Tangrelle »

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #577 on: January 30, 2011, 07:42:03 PM »
Suika. You might also count kanako's vowg but I don't really; too expensive and not super impressive due to kanako's meh mag stat

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #578 on: January 30, 2011, 11:15:03 PM »
Kanako's magic isn't meh IMO.  It's high, but there's a lot of characters with the same magic stat and better attacks than VoWG. 
Before Kanako, you have:
-Suika's Throwing Atlas (essentially KOi3s but with Wind, since Suika should have more-or-less the same amount of atk as Yuugi)
-Youmu's God's Slash of Karma Wind (IIRC best Wind nuke in the game)
-Patchy's Djinn Gust (terrible piercing, weaker than TA, but Patchy has massive magic, so it might work out)
-Iku's Oarfish's Swimming Shot (great piercing and decent formula, but Iku's better off as a mind tank due to a lack of high power or low-delay moves)
-Aya's Peerless Wind God (formula is worse than most nukes, but it's got ridiculously low delay on a high attack, very high speed character and boosts her already absurd speed).

Peerless Wind God doesn't deal nuketastic damage per hit, but it's so fast that it builds up really quick.  And Aya's got good enough attack and speed to make it work.  Of course, you could just use Nitori XD

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #579 on: January 31, 2011, 12:21:58 AM »
Kanako's magic is good, but her leveling speed is god awful. So I consider it meh for a nuke.

I forgot about youmu's. Ayas nuke is actually amazing if defense isn't an issue, but if it is... Yeah.

CP3

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #580 on: January 31, 2011, 01:53:54 AM »
Aya's really good if you have someone to buff her attack. Her damage suffers a lot otherwise.

Suika or Youmu are probably the best. Youmu's likely better because slash of eternity is amazing as well.

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #581 on: January 31, 2011, 02:26:33 AM »
Youmu's got a better damage potential due to the better formula on GSoKW, but Suika's probably going to outdo her for awhile due to TA's better piercing and her higher strength growth.

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #582 on: February 03, 2011, 12:39:51 AM »
Hey para, are you going to finish the spells section? I don't think it's been updated for some time has it? Just asking cuz Im wondering if I should try to finish off some of what I can when I feel productive (though there is something else I have in mind for when I do too)

Parallaxal

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #583 on: February 05, 2011, 02:38:12 AM »
You're right, sorry that I keep putting it off. I do intend to finish it eventually, though.

My apologies. But go ahead if you want to work on it.

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #584 on: February 05, 2011, 03:21:47 AM »
Welp, on 18f, and encountered 2 peta grains. I had reimu in the party, along with Flan, remi, and Mystia. I decided to focus with flan, and switch remi and mystia out for patchy and aya respectively to wind them to death (they aren't very useful in this particular floor otherwise and I don't want to waste sp on my more situationally useful characters if I can help it).. Counting on Reimu's evil sealing circle to paralize them long enough for the switch out to be safe. Alas it hit one of them but not the other. So.. Either Evil sealing circle doesn't hit 100% of the time like we thought, or peta Grains have more than 0 par resist *shrugs*.

Garlyle

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #585 on: February 05, 2011, 04:12:34 AM »
Welp, on 18f, and encountered 2 peta grains. I had reimu in the party, along with Flan, remi, and Mystia. I decided to focus with flan, and switch remi and mystia out for patchy and aya respectively to wind them to death (they aren't very useful in this particular floor otherwise and I don't want to waste sp on my more situationally useful characters if I can help it).. Counting on Reimu's evil sealing circle to paralize them long enough for the switch out to be safe. Alas it hit one of them but not the other. So.. Either Evil sealing circle doesn't hit 100% of the time like we thought, or peta Grains have more than 0 par resist *shrugs*.
Are we talking the big hulking black things or the blue ones?  I know the black ones have some sort of PAR resistance.

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #586 on: February 05, 2011, 04:46:32 AM »
The blue ones that have virtually no defense whatsoever but many hp.

edit: Pawnt cootiesuke at Reimu 89 now. Admittably it was quite messy this time but I'm pretty sure China, remi, reimu, and minoruke could have done all his elemental phases alone. And I made sure to have Eiki and Kaggy ready for his final phase.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 06:19:29 AM by Ghaleon »

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #587 on: February 09, 2011, 09:18:19 AM »
Double post cuz this is not related at all to my last one...

Anyway I'm doing the version 2 bosses, and the bloodstained seal bosses atm... Renko is a steaming pile of dung for me. I don't know how you guys have luck with debuffing enemies. I have none.. zero. against the standard 24 resistance to debuffs, I EXPECT to get absolutely nothing debuffed after casting debilitate 3 times in a row, honest. If you think that's hard to believe get this. I have YET to see it work against even bloody papa  ONCE.. ok fine it debuffed his attack and mnd a few times, but not his magic a single damn time outta like 5.

I swear debuffing is completely worthless for me in this game =\

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #588 on: February 09, 2011, 11:13:24 AM »
I haven't put many miles on Renko, so I can't vouch for her overall usefulness as a debuffer. I mainly kept to Komachi and SPD Reisen for those tasks.

I did have Renko to assist in debuffing a plus disk boss or two, but I can't remember which ones..

That's really odd that Debilitate failed you so often. I have just about the same luck with Tenshi's Hisou Sword.

CP3

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #589 on: February 09, 2011, 11:30:31 AM »
Double post cuz this is not related at all to my last one...

Anyway I'm doing the version 2 bosses, and the bloodstained seal bosses atm... Renko is a steaming pile of dung for me. I don't know how you guys have luck with debuffing enemies. I have none.. zero. against the standard 24 resistance to debuffs, I EXPECT to get absolutely nothing debuffed after casting debilitate 3 times in a row, honest. If you think that's hard to believe get this. I have YET to see it work against even bloody papa  ONCE.. ok fine it debuffed his attack and mnd a few times, but not his magic a single damn time outta like 5.

I swear debuffing is completely worthless for me in this game =\

That's some really bad luck. Most ver.2 bosses are hard to debuff except for Tenshi, Yukari and dunno whoever else, but debuffs not hitting the Papa is some really bad luck.

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #590 on: February 09, 2011, 06:42:50 PM »
Double post cuz this is not related at all to my last one...

Anyway I'm doing the version 2 bosses, and the bloodstained seal bosses atm... Renko is a steaming pile of dung for me. I don't know how you guys have luck with debuffing enemies. I have none.. zero. against the standard 24 resistance to debuffs, I EXPECT to get absolutely nothing debuffed after casting debilitate 3 times in a row, honest. If you think that's hard to believe get this. I have YET to see it work against even bloody papa  ONCE.. ok fine it debuffed his attack and mnd a few times, but not his magic a single damn time outta like 5.

I swear debuffing is completely worthless for me in this game =\

That's terrible luck, man.  I used Renko almost excessively for Yuuka (as a damage sponge and for debuffing), and I've landed the magic and speed debuffs a few times (and the paralysis from Galaxy Stop a couple of times)

Paper Conan

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #591 on: February 10, 2011, 12:14:52 PM »
Oh god, I think I'm starting to regret boosting everyones resistance to the elements for 20 level ups  :ohdear:

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #592 on: February 10, 2011, 05:18:34 PM »
Skill points fix everything. How far are you?

Paper Conan

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #593 on: February 10, 2011, 06:24:27 PM »
Underleveled (lvl57-63) at around floor 15~

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #594 on: February 10, 2011, 06:30:44 PM »
Yeah, leveling up a bit more should solve any big problems. That shouldn't really be game breaking anyway though. Thing is each level up in LoT is fairly significant, even late game. In combination due to skill levels, level bonuses, the hidden +0.04% bonus to all stats in addition to the usual growth rates per level, and the add/subtract damage formulas as opposed to multiply/divide ones.

When you level up, you get a 0.04% retroactive growth bonus to all stats, and you also get the same amount for each skillpoint in each stat, the level up bonus however offers only a 0.03% bonus, so it's really the least significant  form of character customization. It's just significant when you play one game and spend literally ALL of them on one stat, and then all of them on a completely different stat the next game.

Basically, for each level up bonus spent on a stat, it can be made up for + a bit more by spending skillpoints on that stat a single skill level. Which actually makes spending level ups on affinity stats strangely efficient in a way. points per level, affinity levels cost much more than ordinary stats normally. So it's possible that you can actually more than make up for your loss by the skillpoints saved doing this if you were to plan your affinity goals in advance and whatnot.

For example, at skill level 31, flan's attack stat costs just over 1000 skillpoints to level up, but her cld affinity costs around 6000! So if you chose to spend one less skillpoint on her cld affinity, and made up for it by spending a level up on it, you have an extra 5000 skillpoints to spend on her attack, which in the end, would actually be better.

Problem is it's rather difficult to know exactly how many points you would have spent if you hadn't have spent level up bonuses on affinities or whatever.

Anyways, in my current playthru, Renko can suddenly debuff again. I guess I was just having a "Bad luck with debuffs" day, Yuyuko went from being virtually dead weight to omg amazing once I reached MaribelV1. She's great for all the V2 bosses too, as well as the bloodstained seal bosses, she's also great for f21 trash. I just hope her usefulness doesn't die again due to bosses having high spirit resists on average (I haven't really looked). It's obvious, but Yuyu's power is definately dependant on enemy defense more than most people. I mean she's kinda like Sakuya with killing doll. Sure she wont be hitting for 0 so easily, but her spell generally jumps between "sigh....sucks", to "holy shit" quite easily. I also don't have Iku,Ran,or Keine, so buffing Mag is difficult, I imagine having them around would make that jump very easy. Renko's charge is icky, the guage depletion is pretty scary, and the damage dealt to party is actually pretty significant for my defense-oriented builds even with mag level at 1 (especially for patchy, would be for kaggy as well but since I use her for stone bowl only, there's basically no point in buffing her offensive stats).

Quote
Underleveled (lvl57-63) at around floor 15~

It's best to just quote Reimu's level

Ahh yes, it also occured to me. You're likely just feeling insecure about your builds because of where you are in the game. After floor 12, the game's difficulty goes up quite a lot (especially each floor's trash).
Basically floor 13's swordfish will make you go "aghahg they keep 1shotting me or 2shotting my tanks before I can even move!! whyyyy". Floor 14's golems will make you say "zomg it doesn't dieeee whyyyy", it goes on. Floor 17 is especially brutal.

Basically floor 13-15 have the odd enemy that makes each floor hard, and 16+ tend to have a balance of situationally difficult enemies that make handling all possible enemy encounters very difficult to have a clean counter for. I mean for example, some floors have really dangerous enemies that are rather tame if you paralize them, so you do so, but by relying on paralyzing, you wont be able to dps some fast mover dead in time before it attacks, and you can't substitute another character without possibly suffering something else, etc. Honestly it's part of what makes the game great IMO.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 06:44:04 PM by Ghaleon »

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #595 on: February 11, 2011, 12:13:03 AM »
By the way grinding on the 20F is awesome, when you get the opportunity.

I should consider saving some gear for Yuyu,, buffiing her up with a buttload of skillpoints, and sicking her on the 28F.  The enemies with ridiculous defenses and affinities are getting on my nerves.  That and she has huge health and mind to survive Tengu God Presses. 

Also, Mystia is still <3

Ghaleon

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #596 on: February 11, 2011, 01:18:44 AM »
Unless they are vulnerable to dth, in which case Skillpoints dont matter, yuyu's spell will likely disappoint. It's really only impressive when enemy defenses arent significant.

For example, royal flare will damage a helbelmare more than yuyu's spell at even levels. Even less extreme cases, like gold sorceresses make yuyu's nuke seem pretty tame (and utterly bad given it's Sp cost). What makes it own is on bosses who don't resist it much, yuyu will be a patchy/Yuugi level nuke with less delay whilst having Reimu-tier survivability... Kinda like kanako on a water weak enemy.

NEETori

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #597 on: February 12, 2011, 03:51:36 AM »
Yes, I'm using her primarily for DTHing shit, but having her able to deal (almost acceptable, I messed her up badly) damage is never a bad idea. 

Mr. Sacchi

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #598 on: February 16, 2011, 04:48:28 PM »
Currently, everytime I press "New Game" or "Continue" the game closes instantly. And I wanted to play  :(.

So, yeah, what is happening? Also, yes I'm using applocale and all.

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 6F
« Reply #599 on: February 16, 2011, 04:56:03 PM »
I don't recall needing to use applocale. Any of your game or save files missing?