Author Topic: Ten Desires Mafia - Game Over  (Read 91924 times)

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #450 on: August 19, 2012, 04:06:51 AM »
YosHIka tHInk AlieN enOUgh eFfort...

YOShiKA hUngry...
WheRe is SeiGa...?

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #451 on: August 19, 2012, 04:54:14 AM »
She doesn't seem very convinced that Mamizou is scum, since she changes her mind to say that Youmu is worse because "bandwagons" in her next post and calls for more content from Mamizou. I think null reads would get "post more plz" and scum reads would get "no content, you're scum". This makes me think that the Mamizou vote was made to get people off her back and that she has no actual scum reads.
Admittedly the initial Mamizou vote was a kind of survival tactic derived from the fact that people dislike players without scumreads. At the time I had little enough time and enough distractions to keep me from getting a good look on everything going on in the thread.

Okay my birthday party just ended and I only have a little time before bed, so I'm just gonna comment a bit on Kyouko's will now:
Vs. Soga, Miko: Hmm, these ones make sense. I don't have (remember) anything to add to these, so will look into these two's behaviours tomorrow. Part of Soga's behaviour can be attributed to being lazy and uncommitted, but if Miko's ignorance of anything Futo except her points is as Kyouko described I think Miko deserves some scrutiny, as it looks like scumbuddies attempting non-association to me.
Vs. Mamizou: Disagreeing with this. I don't see Mamizou posting helpful things except a thing or two against Youmu and Reimu. I'm still trying to figure out Mamizou's stance on the Reimu gambit, considering Mamizou's sort of giving both parties involved the eyes.
Vs. Kogasa: ...Honestly I don't get this part about Kogasa's train of thought looking town :V Kyouko just says it looks town without really saying why. Not that I really see a problem with Kogasa though.

Skull

  • Skull
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #452 on: August 19, 2012, 05:01:27 AM »


I must admit extreme embarrassment from seeing the yamabiko's assessment of me. To be honest, by the time the day was winding to a close, I had completely forgotten it was Futo-chan who originally asked the "who is scum" question of the shapeshifter. Though I'm not sure I entirely agree with the assessment that one should feel good about the alignment of a player before agreeing with their case, especially since it was the shapeshifter's dodge of the question that piqued my interest further.

Since the yamabiko successfully demasked me (though I would have expected her to know that I have had a subfolder of portraits of myself for far longer than before this game started), I would like to congratulate her on finally achieving the Night 1 death she has always desired. I will also not cease the massive excrement-consuming smile that crept upon my face during that previous sentence while I agree completely with her case on Tojiko-chan, as I know she was not fond of me and will now almost invariably have internal doubts about it. I expect to see plenty of yamabiko agita in the graveyard when my time has come. Cheers, dearie. 8) (You know I love you!)

##Vote: Soga no Tojiko

In all seriousness, the nightly case on my ghostly wife is an incredibly solid one. Active lurking so active that I hadn't even forgotten she was playing. But it is a marvel to watch all of her prompts in this post go answered and have it followed up by this post two hours later where there is zero evidence that she even remembers submitting those prompts, least of all acknowledging the responses.

So as to make this post not a complete copy of the yamabiko's, I will point out that she does it again here - questions for her theoretical prime suspect that are answered in the message that follows immediately, with her next post here making no effort to continue any lines of dialogue. At the very least, a question could have been asked about why the gardener was leaning scum on someone no one else was seriously suspecting. Also distressing is the way all of the gardener's posts thereafter are more or less handwaved with "Unimpressed by the defense" here. Deadline or no, this is still a very easy way to excuse continuing her suspicions of the gardener without actually meaningfully engaging any of the thirty posts the gardener has made since her last post.

A read of Futo-chan yields nothing negative from her. She provides opinions and explanations for those opinions and puts actual effort into hunting for the enemy. At least I have one constituent of whom I can be proud. The only negative thing I can say about her messages is that it appears I somehow forgot to procure for her a keyboard with a Shift button. I must remedy this terrible oversight as soon as the fun has ended.

I think I must slightly disagree with Miyako-chan's assessment that the shapeshifter has put forth enough effort. I see plenty of effort on her part to look involved in the game, but less so actually scumhunting. I see a lot of questions and game theory discussion from her early game, though very little of it goes anywhere meaningful. I am also still not a fan of dodging Futo-chan's question of who she thought was scum.

This post requires proper addressing in this context as well. There are a number of town reads with some justification, but most of them were on people that were under no stress at the time. I do not see a meaningful opinion on the umbrella's betrothed living goddess, despite the question asked of her, and that section ends with a call for more posts. The first half of the section about the gardener is very similar, right down to the call for further opinions. The second half is all either stating what the gardener did or agreeing with other people's assessments of her, which does not signify effort to me. The "sections" on the thief, the ghost princess, and the umbrella are all nothingness.

There are actually a number of good questions here but there is no follow-up to any of them, which is disappointing at best when there was no indication she would not be able to provide any further messages that day.

I see the thief at least claiming to acknowledge the yamabiko's words, but I do not see any sort of effort to acknowledge or appease the request the yamabiko specifically made to the thief. Considering the number of people that have cited the thief's lurking tendencies this game, I would have thought acknowledging that request would have been a fairly high priority. I am unhappy with the transition from "the case is interesting" to "Would support her lynch". "Interesting" cases are not the cases one supports, good and solid cases are.

I would actually like to see how the ghost princess opens this day before deciding she is scummy instead of simply self-centered.

I see a post from the shapeshifter herself. I...cannot actually divine from it whether or not she still thinks her only suspect from yesterday that is still alive is an enemy. This would seem to bring her grand total of opinions of who the enemy are down rather than up, unless she is preparing to seriously propose myself and Futo-chan as a scum team.

Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #453 on: August 19, 2012, 05:17:46 AM »
Yoshika, dear.  Don't make me slap the shit out of you.

If you can't read I will have to send you back to your grave again.  I don't know if you are reading the cases I made yesterday and the amount of conviction I placed in them.  Or do you want to have a go with me about how much was in them?  I clearly thought Reimu was looking worse as the day went on but I still thought Youmu was the correct lynch.  No, I don't do anything here to look good, I'm here to catch scum.  If I cared about looking good I wouldn't bash the fuck out of whoever I thought was acting scum.

That said I think we're getting Toziko today.   

I do not agree to Miss Yoshika's actions being excused this easily. Noteworthy is her waiting on Miss Reimu's content before reconsidering the vote. It is just as undesirable as Miss Yoshika claims Miss Reimu's "wait and see" act is. Nevertheless, stronger is my belief that Miss Youmu is the perpetrator in this junction. The initial vote against Miss Yoshika was weak but forgivable. However, as was agreed on by several others at this point, the voteswitch is less so. As more people showed up to stand by Miss Yoshika, the persuing of the vote turned more and more into refusal to let go of said vote -- eventually leading to the switch, since the wagon potential was not there as it was during the initial casting of the vote. The vote against Miss Sanae, in this case, is nothing more than a filler vote to avoid blanket unvoting.
We'll start with the disconnect already clearly explained in this post from our friend Kyouko.  While the reasons she had to vote Youmu can also be applied to herself she also is one of the weaker hops onto the Youmu wagon.  The no "why dunnit" and lack of conviction is what stands out most here.

The bashing of Reimu then forgiveness with no explanation as to why she is better leaves her a lot of wriggle room to jump in whatever direction seems convenient when they pop up. 

I will acknowledge it: Toziko will be the lynch today
##Vote: Toziko

Moving on. 
I think that Reimu's end of day play is still pretty bad and was viable as a counter wagon but as a new day we have a better lynch.  I am in no way clearing her yet but giving her a null read that she needs to really contribute to because I want to see the light of town!Raymoo.

Hmm.  I'd like a Nue response and for Marisa to lay out her entire Nue case.  I think she's holding back but if that's all then interesting.  I'll write my analysis of the two when I get this ok?  Don't worry I'm impartial in my judgement.  Hyahaha.

Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #454 on: August 19, 2012, 05:22:39 AM »
Ah I see Nue responded during my post anyway.  The move from Ms. Marisa is all I desire then.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #455 on: August 19, 2012, 07:53:04 AM »
OK, that is... interesting, the events since Youmu's lynch. Especially as I did not expect for Kyouko to be so convinced that I'm town... nor so convinced about Soga, someone I had not even suspected above anyone else at this point.

I am still heavily suspicious of Yuyuko, for her heavy lurking on D1, and doing pretty much nothing but going for Policy Lynches all of D1. If she doesn't shape up and do something meaningful today, it's very likely I will push harder for a Yuyuko lynch. Of everyone D1, she posted by far the least content, and none of it was really meaningful at all, not scumhunting, no questions, no reasons beyond 'policy'.

The longer she goes without doing anything meaningful the more my suspicions rise. I suspect her far more now than when Mamizou prodded me after I removed my vote on her D1. I feel this is probably the same stance everyone has on Yuyuko right now, so, unless she wants to be lynched today or tomorrow she needs to step up now.

As for Soga, I see Kyouko and Miko's logic. However, I am not entirely convinced until I see how Soga responds, as this is the first time she's been pressured. Responses to pressure can give a lot of tells, after all.

Yes, it's 'Reimu's waiting and seeing' again. I'm too lazy to vote and then unvote and vote and then unvote.

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #456 on: August 19, 2012, 08:26:02 AM »
YoSHikA ANGeR aT mean ladY!
WaIT and sEe sCUm!

Uuuu~
YoSHIka thInk NyANnyaN oVeRrEAct...? MAybe paNIc...?
YosHIka miSs tiMiNG on NyanNyaN voTE HalfBReed...
YosHika tHiNK LAter thAn Was...
YOShiKA pAranoId maYbe...
YoshIka neeD moRe thiNK...

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #457 on: August 19, 2012, 08:50:56 AM »
YoSHikA ANGeR aT mean ladY!
WaIT and sEe sCUm!

Yoshika, I do not care if you do not approve of me waiting for the accused to give defense. I want to see both sides before I make up my mind, see how Soga responds to the pressure.

Besides, someone in... your situation has all the time in the world to wait and see if you want to. Humans that are... still alive... do not.

Besides, just because I'm waiting for the accused to respond now does not mean I will not take any action. I simply do not want to rush to a conclusion. Last time I did that against Yuyuko I almost got lynched.

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #458 on: August 19, 2012, 10:07:02 AM »
YoshiKA wonDer where COnfidENce dAY first!
MEaN lady pUShy noW but Day First maNy AppEasEMEnt!
MeAn lAdy CaN Tell yoSHika wHy mean lAdY Think reAson giVen noT enOUGh fOR vOTe PrincESs?

YoshiKA wAnt crAzy uMbrellA poSt fAST!

YOShika fORget do This whEN huNGer...
##Vote Reimu Hakurei

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #459 on: August 19, 2012, 10:08:08 AM »
YOShika thInk mEan lady TOO care LooK RIghT...
TOo careFUL...

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #460 on: August 19, 2012, 11:03:22 AM »
MeAn lAdy CaN Tell yoSHika wHy mean lAdY Think reAson giVen noT enOUGh fOR vOTe PrincESs?

Because I want to see if she can do anything of substance, and especially do anything except harp on about policy.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #461 on: August 19, 2012, 11:35:30 AM »
Quote from: Houjuu Nue
Admittedly the initial Mamizou vote was a kind of survival tactic derived from the fact that people dislike players without scumreads. At the time I had little enough time and enough distractions to keep me from getting a good look on everything going on in the thread.

So the Mamizou vote was appeasement and you still don't have scum reads. Looks like obvscum or third party at best. Her posts in general give me a vibe of keeping her options open. As Miko pointed out, the town reads are meaningless wrt people being lynched as none of them were in danger.

Quote from: Houjuu Nue
...Honestly I don't get this part about Kogasa's train of thought looking town  Kyouko just says it looks town without really saying why. Not that I really see a problem with Kogasa though.

This for an example of what I mean by keeping her options open. If she doesn't have a problem with Kogasa, then why is she implying that she doesn't agree?

The tone of #200 is very nervous, like she's afraid of being compared to someone that people thought was scummy.

Reimu: Don't be lazy. Vote for whoever is scummiest. Don't worry about getting lynched, worry about getting scum lynched.

Quote from: Miyako Yoshika
YoshikA waNT TheiF oPiNIon on MeaN lADy anD AliEn!
Reimu's play is bad as has been noted. I really can't see her as scum after what Kyouko pointed out though. Particularly #83 and #91 give the impression of trying hard to get town headed towards a win. Call it gut I guess.

Can't see how Miko/Futo interactions are scummy. There's some back and forth between them. #221 is just repeating Futo's question. There's really nothing in her posts that would imply or require a solid opinion of Futo.

Quote from: Toyosatomimi no Miko
I am unhappy with the transition from "the case is interesting" to "Would support her lynch". "Interesting" cases are not the cases one supports, good and solid cases are.
Uh, interesting as in I like what it points out and agree with the conclusions it makes. Bad choice of words again. :derp:

I feel somewhat uncomfortable pointing this out due to it applying to myself to an extent as well, but I don't like how Mamizou had nothing to say about her main target in the second half of the day after she had posted quite a bit more.

In agreement with Miko about Yuyuko.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #462 on: August 19, 2012, 11:44:52 AM »
Reimu: Don't be lazy. Vote for whoever is scummiest. Don't worry about getting lynched, worry about getting scum lynched.

Eh, this with conjunction with Yoshika pushing me to vote has changed my stance on 'wait and see'. I can always unvote if I change my mind after all.

This is primarily for her play D1, I'm still not sure if I'll stick to this gun, but until I have a worse feeling about someone other than Yuyuko's lurking + policy spam D1, this is my instinct.

##Vote Saigyouji Yuyuko

NekoNekoRex

  • Catgirls are Charming!
  • *
  • Catgirl Enthusiast
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #463 on: August 19, 2012, 04:28:51 PM »
>V-V-Votecount!
Soga no Toziko (2): Toyosatomimi no Miko, Kaku Seiga
Houjuu Nue (1): Kirisame Marisa
Hakurei Reimu (1): Miyako Yoshika
Saigyouji Yuyuko (1): Hakurei Reimu
Not Voting: Soga no Toziko, Tatara Kogasa,  Houjuu Nue, Futatsuiwa Mamizou, Saigyouji Yuyuko,  Mononobe no Futo
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. You 58 hours have left in the day!

EDIT: I suppose it would help to get the dead guys out of the votecount. I REALLY need a nap.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 04:36:25 PM by NekoNekoRex »
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #464 on: August 19, 2012, 04:52:03 PM »
@Marisa: You skipped over the fact that I was busy and not paying much attention. Also I fail to see how not having scumreads yet during that early point of the game is obvantitown. I found the Kyouko vs Kogasa townread peculiar so I just pointed that out. Imo it's not "leaving options open" if you refuse to acknowledge someone as town.

Kyouko vs. Soga: I thought there was more to Reimu vs. Soga than I thought from reading Kyouko's case, but apparently the only instance that can be interpreted as Soga wanting to lynch Reimu was the quote in the case >_> Soga was taking a :educate the newb: stance earlier on Reimu so I think that quote can be interpreted as Soga trying to right Reimu's wrong plays also. A large part of her game theory talk was towards Reimu too. However, it's true that when we filter out all the :educatethenewb: sauce there's barely anything left, she leaves pretty much all of her questions hanging, and her voteswitch was a sheep too (ehehe look who's talking :V), so I'd still ##FoS her.

Seiga: I just noticed she was one of the players not addressed by Kyouko's will. Considering how she said that if Youmu flips town Reimu is likely scum in addition to her D1 distaste and push against Reimu (comparable to her vs. Youmu, even) she's completely ignoring Reimu at the moment, not even commenting on Kyouko's will about Reimu. Also, considering her main targets have been Reimu, Youmu, and recently Marisa and me, Seiga feels like she's trying to dive into every possible posting policy lynch candidate, especially as seen by bashing Youmu pretty much only for her fluff and "not reading the game". Following her [/Reimu] just now I find her behaviours very damning.

*submits post before browser decides to eat it again*

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #465 on: August 19, 2012, 05:06:03 PM »
she's completely ignoring Reimu at the moment, not even commenting on Kyouko's will about Reimu.
[/quote
]


I think that Reimu's end of day play is still pretty bad and was viable as a counter wagon but as a new day we have a better lynch.  I am in no way clearing her yet but giving her a null read that she needs to really contribute to because I want to see the light of town!Raymoo.


Hardly completely ignoring me, and she's not posted at all since I first did in D2. Either Kyouko convinced her Soga is more important that whatever she has against me right now, or she's bandwagoning. I personally think it's the former, since there's hardly a Soga wagon right now, with only two votes on her.

I think Seiga's taken on board what Kyouko said, at least enough to prioritize Soga over me.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #466 on: August 19, 2012, 05:25:55 PM »
That actually reads like an "ok I'll leave Reimu on the sidelines for now" for me. Granted, she did acknowledge that she can't possibly get Reimu lynched today, but she still hasn't given any reasons/opinions on her new read on you. And either way, my point still stands that she's focusing on targets who don't produce a lot of usable content.

On Miko...except for the shrug at Futo LD1, I can't dig up anything. I guess I have to keep staring for now.

Faiz

  • Faiz
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #467 on: August 19, 2012, 06:42:34 PM »
Quote from: Houjuu Nue
You skipped over the fact that I was busy and not paying much attention.
And this makes it better how? You didn't have time, but didn't want to look suspicious for having no scum reads, so you threw out a weak vote.
Quote from: Houjuu Nue
Also I fail to see how not having scumreads yet during that early point of the game is obvantitown.
Uh. No scum reads = no idea who is scum = not able to put your vote on scum = not contributing to towns win condition by trying to lynch scum. Seems pretty clear to me, and there was enough info to at least have one scum read at that point.

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #468 on: August 19, 2012, 08:44:03 PM »
... What the hell?

To think I was able to calm down after Kyouko's display yesterday. Long time since I got mad like that over a case. I was going to calmly explain her outrageous filling-in-the-gaps and misrep (literally 80% of the post was things i did that lacked explanation and were morphed into "he had no explanation for them, duh") so in a sense I was going to take my time with it. I was not expecting people to agree and/or sheep to it (give or take a few lines) without confirming that she was even remotely in the right.

Gonna get it over with now - I was lazy. Being busy for most of D1 didn't help, but that's whatever. Skimming over the thread mostly for new happenings tends to make you forget what the hell you were doing before, and shame on me it happened once or twice. I could have put in more effort and I totally concede to that point. I have a particular problem with recognizing *anything else* though.

Question: did any of you, at all, actually took time to look at what my reason for voting Youmu was? If so then comparing my vote to hers of all things makes 0 sense. I accused Youmu of going with the flow of the wagons, getting on Yoshika when the potential was there, showing enough conviction and then backing off when it was dead clear enough people thought Yoshika was town. My vote on Yoshika was probably the first vote out of RVS, and I switched after not posting for at least half a day (zzzzz). I wasn't even there to rapidly update my opinion - Youmu's disconnect voteswitch is exactly what made it scummy, yet for what I know my vote is being compared because it was also a switch from Yoshika. A completely different switch in every way but apparently that's not important.

Seiga you are seriously as bad as Kyouko. Show me where I was lacking conviction. Just because I didn't lash at her with townie macho doesn't mean it wasn't there. Actually, scratch that, humor me: show me why my vote was the weakest and jarringly lacked conviction so much that each and every other weak-looking voteswitch was supertown in comparison. Not commenting on any of the other similarly weak-looking switches but giving mine so much scrutiny is exactly what that implies.

The other thing I absolutely can't fathom is how any of you got to the conclusion that I hated Reimu unless you literally took each and every one of my posts out of context. For example, let's take the post everyone liked linking so much. I was giving her pointers, for crying out loud. When did those ever imply that I was after her blood? Worse, how does that even imply anything other than that I thought she was town? You give pointers to people you think are town and misguided, not your damn scumreads.

About that, one thing I should have noted but didn't was my Yoshika stance. Even then, though, there were not-so-subtle hints that it was improving. My post Kyouko couldn't decide if was suspecting Reimu or Kogasa? (the answer to which should have been painfully obvious had she actually read the posts before that one) It was Kogasa, and I was acknowledging the reason people were voting her and explaining it to Reimu. Surprise, Yoshika was one of those people.

Miko's case is really the only one I can look at without blowing steam. She hit the bulls-eye and showed that I gave not too much of a fuck, so I guess what I'd ask from you now is to look over the rest of the case that seemed so great to you and tell me if it's as convincing of lurkscum. My D1 was lacking and is now a Youmu-tier point to sheep to what with the almighty mafia goddess' jumping to conclusions, so the best I can do now is make people snap out of it and look around. Which is what I'm doing now.

Oh, one last thing. I got on really close to deadline, so of course my priority was to get my opinions out there asap. Taking the time to look for reasons to justify a gut town read that wasn't getting lynched (at 45 minutes to deadline? hell no) was coincidentally not high on my priority list. Nor was going into detail with exactly what out of Youmu's defense made it wholly unconvincing, especially when she was on her way to scum graveyard.

Before any of you give me flak for overreaction-ahoy, this is what happens when I feel I'm only guilty of a lazy D1 yet people are making it out to be so much more. This was actually a pretty good opportunity to clear up some issues, so, meh, I think it was needed.
~~~~~

I think that's out of the way. Good. Now for town to get on the right track.

##Vote Marisa

This is what we're looking for. Looking back, she was pretty much taking a back seat with the Youmu lynch for the majority of D1. Questions are mostly directed at other people while "Youmu is still scum". When it comes down to it, her involvement in the wagon is minimal. Also, the only point concerning Nue between the initial "bleh, null" read and today is #335, in which no actual conclusion is given. D1 has been a lot of open ends in general. Now Kyouko's 'case' exists so I'm an option and Nue gets voted for the same reasons from earlier - why is she scum now and wasn't scum then? The fact that Marisa's play can be considered similarly active-lurkish and helpful-but-unhelpful to my D1 yet there's a noticeable gap in attention is also one of the reasons making me look in this direction.

Seiga's explanation of her Reimu stance isn't faulty but at the same time it's damning that she had to wait a night to settle that Reimu might be town despite everything when she's been denying that during D1. You normally make sure you're sold about X not being town before you push X off a cliff, and this reconsideration is something that should have happened yesterday (let's not forget that reimu was being called town by several). Weighing in here is also the fact that her vote on me is flawed for reasons already stated. This is where my vote goes if it isn't Marisa.

Reimu and Nue are those people that are visibly doing things wrong but pushing for their lynch reeks of "I don't feel like considering the rest of their play". I don't give a damn if I'm excusing their bad play, people should be scrutinized just as much for playing blind (or otherwise looking at the world through a tube). We hunt scum, not town, so townreads isn't something you're always able to explain, but most of the time you expect it to be visible to others too. Anyway, people are more or less dropping Reimu now, but D1 is something to look at. Seiga actually reads fine here considering she actively compared the Youmu and Reimu votes, but then there's Futo. Nothing concrete, but the stances on Youmu and Reimu look like they're there for the occasion. Handwaving Youmu as townfail still doesn't sit well with me, in direct contrast to yelling at people to look at Reimu at the same time. For the sake of not leaving my townreads completely unexplained, regarding Nue, I find her "look! I used my vote strategically!" thing on D1 adorably authentic and her recent thoughts are enough to cement her as :not a lynch:. Kind of no-backbone town, though. Both need a push in the right direction.

Like I said earlier, I was starting to like Yoshika yesterday, but now she decides to make me toss that out the window completely. She makes good points all around but her vote is constantly in a gravitational pull towards Reimu, for the same grounded reasons as in D1 or something else. This last exchange in particular is ugly; Reimu makes some perfectly valid points and Yoshika reads as completely inconsiderate and :must jump on Reimu at any given chance:. You've shown enough dislike of people not called Reimu (myself included). How do your other reads rank up at all?

Before I forget to comment on any relevant read ever, I was looking into Kogasa at one point yesterday but can't say I'm interested now. LD1 reads like sound town reasoning. Guess I'm not alone thinking that. Still can't figure out Mamizou, but leaning town for relatively solid stances.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #469 on: August 19, 2012, 09:05:16 PM »
Question: did any of you, at all, actually took time to look at what my reason for voting Youmu was? If so then comparing my vote to hers of all things makes 0 sense.

This is the primary reason I stated I was not entirely convinced and insisted I had to hear your side of the story [Before Marisa and Yoshika began pressuring me]. I didn't see your vote on Youmu as a no-reason flip, like I had a go at Youmu for jumping on Sanae for D1.

The other thing I absolutely can't fathom is how any of you got to the conclusion that I hated Reimu unless you literally took each and every one of my posts out of context. For example, let's take the post everyone liked linking so much. I was giving her pointers, for crying out loud. When did those ever imply that I was after her blood?

Adding to this that at no point did you ever directly push for a lynch on me, let alone vote for me, D1.

Miko's case is really the only one I can look at without blowing steam. She hit the bulls-eye and showed that I gave not too much of a fuck, so I guess what I'd ask from you now is to look over the rest of the case that seemed so great to you and tell me if it's as convincing of lurkscum. My D1 was lacking and is now a Youmu-tier point to sheep to what with the almighty mafia goddess' jumping to conclusions, so the best I can do now is make people snap out of it and look around. Which is what I'm doing now.

If people are accuseing you for being lurkscum we should lynch Futo, Marisa and Yuyuko now. All at once.

Oh, one last thing. I got on really close to deadline, so of course my priority was to get my opinions out there asap. Taking the time to look for reasons to justify a gut town read that wasn't getting lynched (at 45 minutes to deadline? hell no) was coincidentally not high on my priority list. Nor was going into detail with exactly what out of Youmu's defense made it wholly unconvincing, especially when she was on her way to scum graveyard.

Also at 45 mins to the deadline it was too late to change the lynch, and not hammering and jumping on the wagon would have lead of us wasting our only NL. The consequences if you didn't 'hop on the wagon' are worth thinking about too.

Not gonna comment on your Marisa stance, since there's not really anything I have to argue about it, nor to add to it, since Marisa has been largely inactive D1.

Still waiting on Yuyuko. At this point I feel like I should point out it has been about 48 hours of Day-phase IRL time that she has not posted.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #470 on: August 19, 2012, 09:08:01 PM »
So how about we just run Reimu up instead of talking about why we're chickening out of it?
It's not like claims are this magical thing required for a lynch. They can help decide whom to lynch. But we can very well lynch someone without a claim, too.
And who knows. Maybe she'll magical appear if we get her to L-1.
Please to be voting Reimu.

My mistake on above, Yuyuko did say something late D1

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #471 on: August 19, 2012, 09:14:55 PM »
I'm sure everyone can agree that Yuyuko needs a boot for the minuscule amount of content at this point, but to be frank there's enough to go off of to avoid a policy lynch (and that's what her lynch is as it stands). Find your favorite scum and vote it. If you agree with my case then go right ahead.

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #472 on: August 19, 2012, 09:19:11 PM »
In my case I'm almost certain Yuyuko is scum, as I've stated before, for heavy lurking and contributeing nothing but screaming 'POLICY!!!!' all D1, but only about 50/50 on Marisa. At least until Marisa responds I'll stick with Yuyuko.

Marisa and Yuyuko are my two main suspects ATM, however.

Would like to hear from Kogasa, Futo and Sanae too. The latter two were not exactly prominent D1 either. I don't even have a clue about Sanae since she's been in the background all game so far.

Skull

  • Skull
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #473 on: August 19, 2012, 09:26:55 PM »


Are you sure you are well of mind, Miss Hakurei? The umbrella's betrothed is deceased.

(A real post is coming soon, truly!)

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #474 on: August 19, 2012, 09:30:19 PM »
Excuse me while I make sure Sukia didn't pour sake down my throat during the night.

Skull

  • Skull
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #475 on: August 19, 2012, 09:38:03 PM »


Kaku-san, I must admit curiosity why you needed extra posts from the thief and the shapeshifter before forming a proper opinion on them instead of forming one of them based on their behavior from the first day. I hope this peculiarity is addressed in your promised future message.

Miyako-chan, your vote intrigues me in a negative way. It comes with no effort to explain why the recent arguments for the Hakurei maiden's likely townhood are misguided or false. It also appears to come as a result of the Hakurei maiden's first post of the day. Why did you not vote for anyone today before she made her presence known? And why are you admonishing her for taking a "wait and see" stance when your opening series of posts for the day were to make calls to four separate people to post more while not casting a vote? Is that not also a "wait and see" approach? I have no idea right now who you think the enemy are outside of the Hakurei maiden, because your approval of the case on my poor wife was not accompanied by a vote, and you seem to now have internal conflicts regarding Kaku-san, the only other person of whom you spoke meaningful ill before your voting post.

Disregarding hunting for the enemy, I find the thief, at the very least, exceptionally rude for refusing to at least acknowledge the existence of the yamabiko's request of her after she was prompted a second time.  I will need to go over her first day to form a proper opinion of her content, however. She was one of those whose first day content I could not remember much coming into the second day. I will get to this tonight or tomorrow; the mausoleum requires some maintainence today that I have yet to complete.

"Miss" Houjuu, not having scum reads tends to be indicative of the enemy because of the inherent nature of this game; those aligned with good can and will form honest opinions of which players they suspect are the enemy, while those aligned with evil will have to feign such opinions. Opinions are, by default, harder to construct artificially than honestly hold. Thus, a person having no opinions on which players are the enemy is more likely to be unable to construct what they think is a quality-looking fake opinion than be unable to form a true opinion. This is why people such as myself ask you who you think the enemy are and what it means when someone's play is "argh". The latter, in particular, is not indicative of thinking someone ally or enemy, which is why it is so important to firmly state which side of the spectrum you lean toward.

The Hakurei shrine maiden's latest gaffe further leans me toward her township; no matter their level of experience, the enemy tend to not forget that those they have killed are dead. (Unless someone is prepared to argue that the Hakurei maiden is actually an evil mastermind that is overacting the role of naive neophyte as strong as she possibly can.)

A response to my poor wife will follow. I feel it important to keep in its own message (and it requires a little bit of research - I did check the vote for the gardener when reading the yamabiko's case, but I will want to check it again given the refutation), and I also do not want the information in this message to be delayed by the time I will need to consider my poor wife's arguments.

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #476 on: August 19, 2012, 10:04:14 PM »
Miyako-chan, your vote intrigues me in a negative way. It comes with no effort to explain why the recent arguments for the Hakurei maiden's likely townhood are misguided or false. It also appears to come as a result of the Hakurei maiden's first post of the day. Why did you not vote for anyone today before she made her presence known? And why are you admonishing her for taking a "wait and see" stance when your opening series of posts for the day were to make calls to four separate people to post more while not casting a vote? Is that not also a "wait and see" approach? I have no idea right now who you think the enemy are outside of the Hakurei maiden, because your approval of the case on my poor wife was not accompanied by a vote, and you seem to now have internal conflicts regarding Kaku-san, the only other person of whom you spoke meaningful ill before your voting post.
YoshiKa wANt MeaN ladY do SOmethinG!
Yoshika maKE do SOmething!

YoSHika nOT maKe vOte FAke FEver SinCE YOSHikA not new thINking...
Other AlREAdy sAy everythINg abOut fake FEVER...
No PoiNT in YOshikA rePEat...

YoshiKA sTill thINk SOmethING wRONg nyAnNyan bUT cAn'T find YEt...
YoshIKa not Time...

Ryuki

  • Dragredder
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #477 on: August 19, 2012, 10:13:29 PM »
YoshiKa wANt MeaN ladY do SOmethinG!
Yoshika maKE do SOmething!

So you vote me for doing nothing?

I've voted Yuyuko, I've backed up Soga, I've derped around a bit, and I responded to your accusations about my patience approach, when charging in on Yuyuko before almost got me lynched.

Claiming you are voting me for doing nothing is outright foolish when I am doing more than most other players right now. Sure it's not all useful, but I'm still doing more than, say, Yuyuko, Futo Kogasa and Marisa have been.

Sorry, but justifying your vote as wanting me to do something is baseless. It's not a valid reason at all to attack me, and in my mind is really, really not helping you seem town. If you had a valid reason for attacking me then it might be, but claiming I'm doing nothing? That's wrong.

Decade

  • Decade
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #478 on: August 19, 2012, 10:20:34 PM »
Assuming Miko's last post included a question of who I think is scum:
Right now I'm leaning scum on Soga, Seiga, Mamizou and Marisa following Soga's post. I'm leaning more on Soga/Seiga than Marisa/Mamizou however. I still find you claiming lack of notice towards Futo strange and scummy, but I cannot conclude that you're scum without more evidence of scummy behaviours from you and/or Futo's scum flip.

D1, yes, I did think Youmu was scum. I'm sorry for my choice of wording.
-cuts-
Okay, this Yoshika vs. Reimu needs to stop. Yoshika hasn't had any new opinions on Reimu for quite a while now, so your push against her is getting VERY stale. She did go about doing things, so stop pestering her to do more things.
Also, who's Fake Fever?

Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #479 on: August 19, 2012, 10:51:49 PM »
First the defense of why I'm not nailing Reimu into the ground right now. 

Why should I take it upon myself to not have a second thought about who may be scum overnight?  At the end of the day Reimu was the one who I considered a viable wagon and the one most likely to flip scum in the events surrounding Youmu's lynch.  Kyouko's words in the middle of the nigh helped me to consider giving Reimu another chance and not to quicklynch her into oblivion like Nue would like to suggest I do. 

As for why I requested a post from Marisa and Nue, I thought I would use their post to solidify the reads I had.  I felt it was better for me to get more of their opinions out so I can clearly see where they were headed.  Now I can place what I was going to do out there.

If you're voting Marisa over Nue, you're doing it wrong.
Marisa may not have the highest amount of content but her opinions are clear and it's plain to see where she's headed when she does post. 
Nue on the otherhand spent the majority of day 1 with a votepark on Yoshika before sheeping the popular Youmu case.  I actually don't approve of the way she used her vote.  She started her vote on Yoshika in what I thought was conviction of scum, but drops it and claims it was just to pressure Yoshika after being called out on having a bad vote.  I'm pretty sure the motive for doing fits when she tried to get a bandwagon on Yoshika for her roleplaying figuring that most would sheep it for Yoshika being annoying to read.  When that didn't happen her fallback was to just get back to weak fosing people.  Her Reimu post doesn't show weather Reimu is either scum or not and gives her breathing room to form whatever opinion she finds fit, be it scum or town.
Since she decides today that her vote on Mamizou was indeed crap (it was) this brings all of her day 1 to a grand total of sheeping the Youmu case and firing off a weak townread on Reimu.
To respond to this travesty:
-No, it is not ok that you justify your lack of reads AT ALL as ok due to laziness or lack or paying attention.  You didn't have reads day 1 so don't write off the fact that you didn't as ok.
-I was in fact adressed in her will as a townread.
- I've already explained why I'm not "ignoring Reimu completely" and how that isn't even true.  Reimu is doing better than you and Toziko so I'm fine with letting her off again.

Quote
Also, considering her main targets have been Reimu, Youmu, and recently Marisa and me, Seiga feels like she's trying to dive into every possible posting policy lynch candidate, especially as seen by bashing Youmu pretty much only for her fluff and "not reading the game".
This line doesn't make sense.  I said I would give input on you and Marisa not that I fosed you, get it right.  That, and you're going to have to take apart my case on Youmu on why it was a fucking policy lynch if you want to throw out buzzwords.  I expect to see this.  You'll see it was far from a policy lynch and actually a standard case.
Quote
Following her [/Reimu] just now I find her behaviours very damning.
Again, what the fuck?

I want you to clearly show me how: "I think that Reimu's end of day play is still pretty bad and was viable as a counter wagon but as a new day we have a better lynch.  I am in no way clearing her yet but giving her a null read that she needs to really contribute to because I want to see the light of town!Raymoo."
got translated into
"Granted, she did acknowledge that she can't possibly get Reimu lynched today"
What the fuck was that?

Your latest posts' order of who you fos is riddled with disconnect.  Seriously you place the two people who you barely started fosing today,
My case which I'm having a real hard time finding anything resembling actual logic and your sheep towards Toziko over
Mamizou, who you voteparked day 1 over and are starting to drop for no reason and Marisa who you have more content towards why you fos her. 
Safe to say, Nue is scum.

I will make the response to Toziko in another post since this is enough for now.