Author Topic: Ten Desires Mafia - Game Over  (Read 42421 times)

W

  • Heat Joker
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #390 on: August 18, 2012, 03:01:02 AM »
Okay well I didn't really think -all- of it was going to be the same argument (I thought maybe at least the lurker stuff and explaining why the second post about her Yoshika case reasons were bad might be new) but oh. Sadface.

Also I think Nue is p.scummy but I was holding back on saying it because I wasn't actually making a case until tomorrow, so it felt like I didn't really have the justification to say it yet.

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #391 on: August 18, 2012, 03:03:38 AM »
YoShiKA tiRed aNd coNFusE...

Sasword

  • Sasword
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #392 on: August 18, 2012, 03:06:33 AM »
Seiga cmon don't be like that. They're probably both town so it's not like I chose any better to start. Do you really want Youmu around over Reimu?
Nue has elements of SUSPICIOUS and I don't feel cases on her re unwarranted, but the bacing off thing on Yoshika didn't feel like a thhing scum would do. They'd be better off not admitting it and finding another suspect right away, you know?

OOO

  • Taka! Kujaku! Condor!
  • TaJaDor
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #393 on: August 18, 2012, 03:08:04 AM »
Also Futo, why does just dropping her vote and apologizing make Youmu fine for now?
seiga already sorta covered this but to elaborate:
it doesn't. there are other people whose cases on youmu touch on more than that. but reimu latched on to the youmu case based on that piece of reasoning which she stated as her main justification. now that the point isn't valid anymore why is she voting youmu? it's riding the coattails of the other people who made cases on youmu.

There are :reasons: that that particular brand of newb bleeding all over us is town.
you mean these reasons?
Reimu: Super Fake Batman Hyper Town
Yoshika: That's alot more then forcing a 1 vs 1 though. I  know it's hard to tell, but I'm pretty sure Reimu takes all those suggestions seriously. I don't believe Reimu is voting Yuyuko either. Besides, town are more likely to believe in their gambits and force terrible 1 vs 1's then scum. Scum are just more likely to take them up on it and pretend it never happened later. Come on, let's look at other people. Reimu probably isn't tasty.
Why would Reimu stop being suspicious of Yuyuko? I would suggest Reimu look for more reason to vote Yuyu but I don't see why acknowledging no one wants to PL because of a -silly- gambit is scummy.
if there are actual reasons to think reimu are town please to be sharing them with the rest of the town. seriously, there's no downside. if you have actual reasons give them up so I can consider them. otherwise i see no reason to sheep your read; you are not a mafia goddess and confirmed town != confirmed right.

Stop sounding like you want to keep the easy targets open.
if they're an "easy target" it means they did something scummy to make them an "easy target." and if reimu is an easy target why is she so hard to lynch? anyway i'd argue that youmu is more of an easy target for the number of sheeple on and off her wagon who have specified a desire to lynch her. it's like a party here.

Also stop sounding like huh what, I have reason to believe you are not in fact him.
idk why you would think that b/c huhwhat is the mod. ofc im not huhwhat that would be silly.

anyway i'd argue that reimu has a lot higher chance of flipping scum than youmu anyway. youmu's response to being wagoned was to flail around and continue to scumhunt, however badly. reimu's response was to sheep onto the youmu wagon for the weakest of reasons and then bring up theory to explain why lynching the claimed vt is a good idea D1. seriously show me what scumhunting reimu has done.

cut- and yes, actually i'd want youmu around over reimu in the event they were both town. you think reimu's particular brand of scumhunting will be useful to the town if she is in fact town?

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #394 on: August 18, 2012, 03:19:03 AM »
About an hour left.

I'll try to stay around until deadline though I probably should have left about an hour ago.

W

  • Heat Joker
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #395 on: August 18, 2012, 03:20:21 AM »
I'm going to be around until deadline.

Skull

  • Skull
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #396 on: August 18, 2012, 03:25:44 AM »


Other dialogue about neophyte allies and neophyte enemies and how one could be either notwithstanding, the Hakurei maiden's response to my query particularly stays my sword hand. I made sure to emphasize to emphasize the issue with "Miss" Houjuu by pointing out the lack of investigative effort, but the Hakurei maiden almost seems to completely miss this in her support of "Miss" Houjuu, support that I think demonstrates a lack of core knowledge as to what is indicative of evildoers and what is not. There was no attempt to spin the position that "Miss" Houjuu was lacking in investigative effort as good or bad; she just ignored it entirely, presumably because she did not realize its importance. I think that, were the Hakurei shrine maiden our enemy, she would have taken this example of scummy play from "Miss" Houjuu and at least tried to run with it; as it was more or less a free negative opinion of someone for legitimate reasons.

I can understand the angst directed at this post but I believe neophytes can be expected to play as logic a game as possible regardless of their allegiance as they do not yet have the experience necessary, so this does not override the feelings I get from what I discussed in the previous paragraph.

The gardener, on the other hand, still does not impress. Claiming Miyako-san looked better due to consistency implies the gardener thought her inconsistent before, and I recall neither Miyako-chan being inconsistent nor any prior post by the gardener claiming Miyako-chan was inconsistent. This reads as a weak attempt to justify her mind change using promising-looking buzzwords so people will think she actually thought her position through.

Citing the fact that "having a different opinion after re-reading isn't scummy" is disingenuous in a similar fashion to those other quotes from her I pointed out earlier; changing one's mind is not scummy, but changing one's mind with no explanation why one is moving off of one player or onto another is scummy.

The gardener seems to have spent more of her remaining day's words focusing on portraying her "woe is me" attitude than I believe to be of town origin. There is less of an effort to fend people off of her with legitimate point-counterpoint discussion than I would like. I could go through and quote all of her emotional nonsense but I would like to believe no one that is actually following this transcript has missed all of it completely - though I will at least highlight this post in particular as it contains discredit mud-slinging directed at the case against her used in a fashion similar to her other disingenuous statements. Suffice to say that I see this sort of end-of-day attitude far more from scum than town, as being an emotional predator is much easier than actually providing substantiated opinions. The sentiments expressed in this very recent post are particularly familiar as those of the enemy; I very commonly see undesirables try to excuse their lack of effort at the end of the day on the unsubstantiated grounds that saying anything will only make people dislike them more.

Onto other matters. I find myself nodding along to the words of those who expressed dissatisfaction with "Miss" Houjuu's large post of mostly easy-to-hold or uncertain opinions. Describing people as "argh" does not tell us if they are allies or enemies.

Futo-chan, dearie, I am not sure I understand what you are getting at by highlighting the fact that the gardener's vote for the umbrella's betrothed had changed by the time the Hakurei maiden cast her vote over it. If we accept the premise that the Hakurei maiden found the gardener's vote for the umbrella's betrothed weak and therefore scummy, does the change of the vote mean the vote was never cast or weak in the first place? I do not understand why a scummy stance cannot be considered scummy once the holder changes their mind.

Sasword

  • Sasword
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #397 on: August 18, 2012, 03:26:54 AM »
Nooooo, I mean more like this reason.
Silly yes. Actively pushing at the beginning of the game to bring out the activity and being responsible for getting the game started, probably not. Scum don't want the attention and would have someone telling them that just dropping and running is a bad idea. Scum also don't think they're Town Magical Batman.
Which you quoted the post where I said that and cut that part out. Are you trying to make me mad at you? I am a god damn mafia god of WAR you outdated old woman.

Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #398 on: August 18, 2012, 03:28:21 AM »
>V-V-Votecount!
Konpaku Youmu (6): Kirisame Marisa, Kochiya Sanae, Toyosatomimi no Miko, Kasodani Kyouko, Hakurei Reimu, Kaku Seiga
Hakurei Reimu (4): Futatsuiwa Mamizou, Saigyouji Yuyuko, Konpaku Youmu, Mononobe no Futo
Futatsuiwa Mamizou (1): Houjuu Nue
Tatara Kogasa (1): Miyako Yoshika
Not Voting: Soga no Toziko, Tatara Kogasa
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. You have 1 hour left in the day!

Youmu is at L-2!

W

  • Heat Joker
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #399 on: August 18, 2012, 03:30:59 AM »
...oh yeah, I almost forgot.

##Vote Youmu

That's L-1 (in comparison to Reimu's L-4)


Skull

  • Skull
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #400 on: August 18, 2012, 03:31:56 AM »


Ah, my apologies! It appears that I provided an incomplete thought in my haste to contribute. I have added the missing pieces in bold font.

I believe neophytes can be expected to play as logic a game as possible regardless of their allegiance as they do not yet have the experience necessary to fully understand the nuances of reading for scum intent, so this does not override the feelings I get from what I discussed in the previous paragraph.

So the mountain canine deigns to mock the ages of my constituents? Hmph. I suppose I could expect no less of one that follows the "teachings" of Myouren.

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #401 on: August 18, 2012, 03:33:50 AM »
Congratulations town, you're about to lynch an active scumhunting claimed vanilla over a player who has done pulled a gambit and voted the easy target with ew reasoning to back it up.

Going afk for a bit.

OOO

  • Taka! Kujaku! Condor!
  • TaJaDor
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #402 on: August 18, 2012, 03:36:19 AM »
Futo-chan, dearie, I am not sure I understand what you are getting at by highlighting the fact that the gardener's vote for the umbrella's betrothed had changed by the time the Hakurei maiden cast her vote over it. If we accept the premise that the Hakurei maiden found the gardener's vote for the umbrella's betrothed weak and therefore scummy, does the change of the vote mean the vote was never cast or weak in the first place? I do not understand why a scummy stance cannot be considered scummy once the holder changes their mind.
I don't think anyone is saying the vote was good. But in context, it could easily be a dumb slipup by an overeager townie and it's one of the weaker points of the youmu "case." i don't mind people questioning youmu on this point but reimu adopted it as the heart of her case with little else, which is what separates her from others pushing youmu. it reminds me of the way zakeri caught bardiche in mafia rules mafia. bardiche voted schezo because schezo had made a dumb shadoweh vote. but once schezo had retracted his vote, apologized for his mistake, and continued scumhunting, that point was null, and yet bardiche held onto the "bad vote." im not sure if i'm explaining this well but the gist of it is that yes, both town and scum make dumb votes, so the fact that reimu is pushing this point as the center of the case on youmu is what strikes me as bad.

Nooooo, I mean more like this reason.Which you quoted the post where I said that and cut that part out. Are you trying to make me mad at you? I am a god damn mafia god of WAR you outdated old woman.
oh whoops; yeah i missed that because i was just going ctrl+f "reimu". i already responded to that though so i guess we have a difference of opinion there. *shrugs*

OOO

  • Taka! Kujaku! Condor!
  • TaJaDor
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #403 on: August 18, 2012, 03:38:51 AM »
miko, am i reading it correctly that you think scum!reimu would have been more likely to take the bait re: scummy things the nue did, so that factors into your read of a town!reimu. just trying to make sure im getting it right.

Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #404 on: August 18, 2012, 03:39:23 AM »
>V-V-Votecount!
Konpaku Youmu (7): Kirisame Marisa, Kochiya Sanae, Toyosatomimi no Miko, Kasodani Kyouko, Hakurei Reimu, Kaku Seiga, Tatara Kogasa (L-1!)
Hakurei Reimu (4): Futatsuiwa Mamizou, Saigyouji Yuyuko, Konpaku Youmu, Mononobe no Futo
Futatsuiwa Mamizou (1): Houjuu Nue
Tatara Kogasa (1): Miyako Yoshika
Not Voting: Soga no Toziko
With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. You have ~1 hour left in the day!

Youmu is at L-1!

W

  • Heat Joker
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #405 on: August 18, 2012, 03:41:05 AM »
Quote
but once schezo had retracted his vote, apologized for his mistake, and continued scumhunting, that point was null
but then the next vote youmu made was -also- bad

and the one afterwords was Not Me Over Me so it really doesn't count

That being said, I'm not actually defending Reimu here because I'm not awake enough to properly understand what's being discussed here, but just sort of, supporting the youmu lynch here in general

also it's less one hour and more 49 minutes HW but I'm just being nitpicky I guess it's fairly close

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #406 on: August 18, 2012, 03:41:24 AM »
tl;dr I've been trying my hardest over the past 13-14 hours to go from forgone lynch target to getting a scum lynch and it seems I've barely gotten anywhere.

At least I didn't give up this time, and generated another 150 posts of discussion for people to dig through on later days.

(Being at L-1 means someone would need to unvote for someone else to be lynched and that seems unlikely so the best I can hope for is the already discarded as a bad idea no lynch)

(Also don't lynch for this I wanted to get it out there since there's no twilight phase in this game)

Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #407 on: August 18, 2012, 03:43:50 AM »
If you're town or any alignment really, ATE out the ass is not the was to avoid a lynch.

mmer

Skull

  • Skull
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #408 on: August 18, 2012, 03:44:13 AM »


I am most pleased to see that I indeed should not need to highlight evidence of the emotional predator tendencies of the gardener, as she has been most kind enough to provide an additional example on her own.

Futo-chan, yes, you understand my thinking correctly. I can also see where you are coming from regarding holding onto the vote, though I do still suspect misguided town motivation there based on the information about which you asked.

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #409 on: August 18, 2012, 03:47:43 AM »
My vote is here. Unimpressed by the defense. Not fond of lynching Reimu. Disagree with Futo; why is it townflail and not scumflail?
Quote from: Saigyouji Yuyuko
It's not like claims are this magical thing required for a lynch. They can help decide whom to lynch. But we can very well lynch someone without a claim, too.
No. Unless they're the untimate scum abomination, you only need to look at last game for reasons not to do this.

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #410 on: August 18, 2012, 03:50:26 AM »
YoSHikA Eat haLFbrEED?
Yoshika noT thinK HAlfBreed veRy fILling...
OnlY HalF fOod...

Sasword

  • Sasword
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #411 on: August 18, 2012, 03:55:25 AM »
Even you've admitted Futo's thoughts are unchanging and rigid, oh miss Touhou Hijack. Do you not feel like her unwavering position is suspicious at all? I've seen you question her a few times, but to be honest I'm not sure what Miko actually thinks of Futo right now.

Youmuuuu :< I'm sorry, I would agree to lynch someone else if we had more time. I have had terrrrrible experience with lynching absent people lately.

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #412 on: August 18, 2012, 03:56:58 AM »
So I had this post up with a whole bunch of stuff and then my Firefox randomly closed.

I remember having "I only hope people can look past the AtEs and see the effort I put in in trying to lynch scum today, which right now I think there's at least one between Mamizou and Yuyuko" and there was some other stuff that I don't remember.

I guess the options now are lynch me, no lynch or lynch Reimu but the last one requires a bunch of people to switch off me which isn't likely and disinterest has been expressed in a no-lynch.

Yoshika, you can't eat me, the rest of the players need my flip to know to take everything I've been saying seriously.

Miko, I've been doing this for the past 14 or so hours.  Of course I'm going to be a bit emotional and it's going to come through.

-cut-
I understand perfectly Kyouko.  I will have no hard feelings towards you.  I only wish I could have convinced people that lynching another would be better.

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #413 on: August 18, 2012, 03:58:55 AM »
Overall though I can feel proud of having not given up even in the face of 9 of 13 other players having expressed willingness to vote me.

Go town.
Lynch those scummy scumbags for me.

Kabuto

  • Kabuto
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #414 on: August 18, 2012, 04:03:39 AM »
How fitting, an arrange of Komachi's theme just came up in the playlist I'm listening to.

Kiva-la

  • Kiva-la
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #415 on: August 18, 2012, 04:05:13 AM »
YoShikA wONder oTher peOPle haVe wORd or YOSHikA OkaY eat...

Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #416 on: August 18, 2012, 04:05:49 AM »
25 minutes!

NekoNekoRex

  • Catgirls are Charming!
  • *
  • Catgirl Enthusiast
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #417 on: August 18, 2012, 04:06:21 AM »
Votecount unchanged.

You have 25 minutes left in the day!

Youmu is at L-1!

-cut by HW beating me to it ;-;
« Last Edit: August 18, 2012, 04:10:10 AM by NekoNekoRex »
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #418 on: August 18, 2012, 04:06:37 AM »
gg

Den-O

  • Plat Form
Re: Ten Desires Mafia - Day 1
« Reply #419 on: August 18, 2012, 04:07:19 AM »
I'll hammer in ten minutes anyway unless anything is going on.