Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F  (Read 264805 times)

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #660 on: June 29, 2012, 04:53:38 PM »
Is there anything different between the boss event versions and the 30F versions? I'd test them both just to be safe.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #661 on: June 29, 2012, 05:00:55 PM »
Is there anything different between the boss event versions and the 30F versions? I'd test them both just to be safe.
Not according to the Database or what I'm seeing in the disassembly. The player version and enemy version of spells are all different (extremely noticable for some; e.g. Chen's Kimontonkou has 75% post-use and only buffs 50%, and Phoenix Spread Wings is FIR elemental), but the v1, v2, and v3 bosses all use the same spells, just with better stats.

It would certainly be best to test both, but that can wait until it actually works. If I need to fight Okuu to have her use Uncontained as soon as possible, it'd be easier to just go to the boss encounter than spam M + run away on 30F.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #662 on: June 30, 2012, 04:21:11 AM »
I am unsure if there is a difference between event bosses and bosses from floor 30, there could be. Or there is a flag that is making some sort of different.
Floor 30 enemies are treated as non-bosses, so Yuyuko's gauge down skill will lower their ready gauge as if they are regular enemies.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #663 on: July 01, 2012, 06:00:22 AM »
Crap, I made a mistake on my battle with Yukari. I actually let her use the IN Quadruple Barrier before I started buffing myself again.
Should I go on overdrive when nearing the third form shift?

Parallaxal

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #664 on: July 02, 2012, 05:40:51 AM »
Completed the main game. My party ranged from lvl 108 (Yuyuko) to 125 (Minoriko). The final boss was not too terrible, although there was a large degree of luck involved since if she snipes just one key member (Minoriko or Suwako, mostly), then the fight would suddenly become way harder. Status resistances were a big factor, since PAR and SIL are pretty much the same as being killed in this fight.

My strategy was to paralyze the 1st summon, debuff the 2nd, then focus down the 3rd followed by the 2nd once all 3 are out. I left the 1st summon alive because it's vulnerable to PAR, so I had Suwako PAR-lock it while I did as much damage as I could to the main boss. I did manage to get her down to fairly low health before finishing off the remaining summon, and I still had my entire team alive at that point. However, despite having only a small amount of health left, the boss had to make things difficult by using Djinn Storm shortly after and forcing me to scramble to come up with the damage needed to finish her off. She also started wrecking my team with Overflowing Unnatural Power + Berserk and Chaotic Quadruple Barrier. Eventually, though, I managed to scrounge up that last bit of damage after waiting what felt like an eternity for people to recover their SP.

By the way, funny story: during my earlier failed attempt at the final boss, I was left with only Minoriko and Shikieiki alive at one point. Minoriko tanked the final boss's last form for ages just by buffing herself and healing herself while switching Shikieiki (who was at 1 HP from poison) in and out in between the boss's attacks. She did this long enough for Shikieiki to use Last Judgment three times, despite Djinn Storm being used twice as well. Still lost, though, but it was hilarious to see Minoriko eat over a dozen attacks from the buffed up boss and still remain standing.

Ozzy

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #665 on: July 02, 2012, 07:17:50 AM »
By the way, funny story: during my earlier failed attempt at the final boss, I was left with only Minoriko and Shikieiki alive at one point. Minoriko tanked the final boss's last form for ages just by buffing herself and healing herself while switching Shikieiki (who was at 1 HP from poison) in and out in between the boss's attacks. She did this long enough for Shikieiki to use Last Judgment three times, despite Djinn Storm being used twice as well. Still lost, though, but it was hilarious to see Minoriko eat over a dozen attacks from the buffed up boss and still remain standing.

This sounds so much like what happened to me when I was first trying to beat the final boss. Reimu and Ran were my only remaining party members. Ran continued to attack with Soaring En no Ozuno, focusing when necessary while Reimu continously healed, with just enough turns to recover her SP for another heal. This went on for quite a bit of time during 2 djinn storms literally back to back. I believe she also used Magic Drain a lot as well, to little effect. I can't remember what finally took them down, but it would have been awesome if that attempt succeeded. Your story sounds almost exactly the same as mine except with more damage output perhaps. I wonder if this is a common occurrence on this boss.

RegalStar

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #666 on: July 02, 2012, 01:56:28 PM »
Not according to the Database or what I'm seeing in the disassembly. The player version and enemy version of spells are all different (extremely noticable for some; e.g. Chen's Kimontonkou has 75% post-use and only buffs 50%, and Phoenix Spread Wings is FIR elemental), but the v1, v2, and v3 bosses all use the same spells, just with better stats.

It would certainly be best to test both, but that can wait until it actually works. If I need to fight Okuu to have her use Uncontained as soon as possible, it'd be easier to just go to the boss encounter than spam M + run away on 30F.

As far as I can tell, all the bosses have the same AI script, except with different HP values for triggers. Moves are also mostly same except Kaguya v2/v3, who replaces Hourai Barrage with some lame move that debuffs SPD and does nothing else.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #667 on: July 02, 2012, 11:25:21 PM »
Hi everyone! I'm kind of new here (actually very new :<) but I wanted to get some help with team-building for Labryinth of Touhou.
I've read through a bunch of pages to find out what might work best, but a lot of the characters seemed to need a good team to support them.
So, I want to know your suggestions for my team.
Currently, I'm not very far in (just started 7F), but I still am trying to plan out the best team :<.
My team consists currently of:
Aya, Cirno, Rumia, Youmu
Minoriko, Marisa, Patchouli, Alice
Meiling, Remilia, Reimu, Iku
When I get them later, I think I'll swap out the top row for Kaguya, Suwako, Komachi, Yuugi
and possibly youmu/marisa for renko/flandre
but I was wondering on the balancing of the team. Do I need more physical characters? Is there something that my future team needs to cover?
Also, how much PAR resistance do I need to make sure that Iku's buff doesn't stun anyone?

Parallaxal

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #668 on: July 03, 2012, 12:21:40 AM »
I think you have enough physical characters as is. Youmu can carry your physical needs by herself, Remilia does decent physical DPS if you build her ATK, and Alice is primarily a physical attacker (despite what she may appear to be) because her most powerful spell, Return Inanimate, targets DEF instead of MND. If you're going to add Suwako, Komachi, and Yuugi to your team, then your team will be heavily physical-based, since all 3 of them are excellent physical attackers. If anything, you'll be lacking MAG damage, although a MAG-based Kaguya does go a long way towards fixing that issue.

Your team isn't really lacking anything important. Once you swap in the characters you mentioned, you'll have a nuke-level spell covering every element except CLD (which, to be fair, only Kanako has). You're a bit light on strong debuffs until you get Renko, but you have incidental coverage between Alice, Cirno, and Komachi.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #669 on: July 03, 2012, 12:45:04 AM »
Okay, thanks for the help.
I didn't actually realize Suwako was physical (and Alice) because I haven't gotten her yet, only read about her XD
Now I need to actually get all these characters :<

Zil

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #670 on: July 03, 2012, 12:45:23 AM »
I think 34 is what you need to be completely immune to ailments. The only exception is a few Death attacks in the plus disk. For those you need 50 or something.

And you do seem to be covered as far as physical damage goes. I'm tempted to mention Nitori as being a powerful option, but yeah.

Parallaxal

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #671 on: July 03, 2012, 01:07:59 AM »
On paper, Suwako may look like a mixed attacker, but the reality is that both of her physical spells (Iron Ring and Croaking Frog) are far more powerful than her magical spells. Their drawback is that they're both single-target, but that's typically all you need against bosses anyway. So while she has equal ATK and MAG growth, you'll tend to get more mileage out of her if you focus just on ATK than if you were to try to divide up her level up bonuses evenly. Even if you focus on her MAG, other characters will be better at sweeping trash mobs than her, but if you focus on ATK you'll have yourself the most powerful NTR nuke in the game and one of the strongest PAR effects as well.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #672 on: July 03, 2012, 01:40:12 AM »
Random thought I've been kicking around, has anyone tried ATK-built Tenshi as a secondary tank?  Her ATK's not the best, but her damage formulas aren't half bad; looking at her stats and formulas on the wiki it looks like she'd at least be close to Maribel's output, while being a lot sturdier by comparison.  NTR's also a lot less resisted than MYS too.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 01:59:10 AM by Esoterica »

Parallaxal

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #673 on: July 03, 2012, 05:16:05 AM »
I'd say no. Looking at the stats and formulas, Tenshi's damage output is significantly worse than Maribel's. She has worse lvl up rate, lower ATK growth (compared to Maribel's MAG), worse SPD, worse delays, and worse damage formulas. Maribel herself is decidedly mediocre without her self-buff, and Tenshi doesn't have that of course. I daresay you would have a better chance of making Sanae into a good attacker than Tenshi.

Besides, Tenshi already has amazing damage output, albeit in an indirect way, since her low SPD and ridiculous defenses easily enable her to keep another slot efficiently switched out. Think of her as sacrificing her own turn to double the rate of fire for your other characters to use their high-delay nukes with minimal penalty. With the proper strategy, any damage that Tenshi could possibly do with her spellcards would be vastly overshadowed by the extra damage she enables through judicious switching of characters.

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #674 on: July 03, 2012, 07:02:20 AM »
Parallaxel your gameplay theories are just too high tech for us. I'm too casual to play at your level.

The Krve

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #675 on: July 03, 2012, 08:01:12 AM »
>Marisa has MYS .
>Utsuho has both MYS and FIR .
>Team only has Fire Rat's Robe for a FIR MAG spell .
Guys should I ditch Marisa for Utsuho ?
 

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #676 on: July 03, 2012, 08:22:57 AM »
For maingame, no. For postgame, maybe.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #677 on: July 03, 2012, 09:29:08 AM »
Besides, Tenshi already has amazing damage output, albeit in an indirect way, since her low SPD and ridiculous defenses easily enable her to keep another slot efficiently switched out. Think of her as sacrificing her own turn to double the rate of fire for your other characters to use their high-delay nukes with minimal penalty. With the proper strategy, any damage that Tenshi could possibly do with her spellcards would be vastly overshadowed by the extra damage she enables through judicious switching of characters.
True enough.  I already knew it wouldn't be the most efficient use of her, I just thought it might make for a viable/entertaining result :V

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #678 on: July 03, 2012, 03:09:31 PM »
>Marisa has MYS .
>Utsuho has both MYS and FIR .
>Team only has Fire Rat's Robe for a FIR MAG spell .
Guys should I ditch Marisa for Utsuho ?
Utsuho sux so no

She has nice attacks for random battles but nothing you'd ever want to use on a boss, and she isn't durable either, so there's just... no reason to use her unless you just REALLY want to use Utsuho. She's like... the only character in the game I'd say this about.
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Parallaxal

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #679 on: July 03, 2012, 04:27:09 PM »
You want a character who deals both MYS and FIR damage? Use Reisen.

The funny thing is that Reisen can easily outdamage Utsuho, to say nothing of her debuffs.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #680 on: July 04, 2012, 06:37:05 AM »
Umm does anyone have the Sayori portrait pack?

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #681 on: July 04, 2012, 08:07:38 AM »
Second pack in the OP has Sayori art mixed into the packs.

SealedDarkness

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #682 on: July 05, 2012, 10:27:44 PM »
Excuse me...

I picked up this game a while back, and I've been having a lot of fun with it, but it occurs to me that I may have slightly shot myself in the foot. I'm on the 20th floor and so far have been swapping out characters just about every level. Everyone has TONS of SP thrown around and I don't really have a set team, just a cobbled together mess of whoever works for the floor. Something tells me I MAY not be doing this right... In addition, I've no real idea of whose skills work as what, and have been throwing SP and bonuses into whatever needs help at the time. No points in evasion, and I generally checked to see what attacks are magic and attack based, so I didn't blow any points there, but otherwise, I'm walking a painful tightrope with every battle, it seems. It just feels like nobody has enough defense or mind...

I don't think I have any real tanks, save Meiling, and most of my buffing comes from Reimu and Ran. I'm not sure what a good balance of characters would be, and the idea of a "secondary tank" occurred to me only recently... My main attackers are Yuugi, Suika and Nitori, but as for the rest of my team, I don't really have any set formation.

Am I doing this wrong, or is this just how hard it gets at the end? I kind of don't want to start over if I've gone and blown everything to hell, but at the same time, I'm only planning on sticking it out as long as it takes to get all the characters before using the new game + option.

I have no name

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #683 on: July 05, 2012, 10:30:58 PM »
It's some of both-difficulty spikes around 13F, and the last few bosses (Yukari, Rinnosuke and Maribel( are also difficulty spikes in and of themselves.  Additionally, the 20F encounters are sort of like minibosses.
Generally you want to focus on a group of characters (I focused on ~16 which I switched in and out), but spreading everything around just means you need to grind a bit more.

Utsuho sux so no

She has nice attacks for random battles but nothing you'd ever want to use on a boss, and she isn't durable either, so there's just... no reason to use her unless you just REALLY want to use Utsuho. She's like... the only character in the game I'd say this about.
shut up Okuu is awesome

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #684 on: July 06, 2012, 03:06:00 AM »
.
The only real concern I see is that you built everyone offensively; I did that my first playthrough and it definitely gave me a lot of trouble - particularly against Rinnosuke.  There aren't any real issues with cycling between a lot of different characters, aside from maybe running short on skillpoints frequently; if you were getting the impression you were doing something wrong due to everyone here sticking with a single party, don't.  We've all cleared the game at least once I'm sure, and doing one-party runs for added fun/challenge.

From what I gathered of the team composition you did mention I wouldn't exactly expect any problems though, unless it's dealing with MAG-centric opponents.

shut up Okuu is awesome
awesome at being useless


Parallaxal

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #686 on: July 06, 2012, 03:14:30 AM »
Am I doing this wrong, or is this just how hard it gets at the end? I kind of don't want to start over if I've gone and blown everything to hell, but at the same time, I'm only planning on sticking it out as long as it takes to get all the characters before using the new game + option.

You've done nothing that can't be fixed with a bit of extra grinding. Skill Points are not a limited resource if you can tolerate beating up some floor trash.

All characters are usable in this game, but if you want to have more of a focus to your party, you can try to streamline your team by focusing on one of two major archetypes (I posted something like this several pages ago):

Burst archetype - The burst archetype revolves around using extremely powerful nukes that have the drawback of emptying your entire active gauge. The plan is to have someone slow but durable (like Meiling or Tenshi) spend all their turns rotating another slot to launch powerful nukes in quick succession. Each of your attackers should be faster than whoever's doing the switching for maximum effectiveness. This is why speed buffs are not useful for this strategy; you're only as fast as the person doing the switching, and you need them to be slower than everyone else. Doing this correctly lets you keep your squishiest attackers out of harm's way whenever a boss is about to attack, only to switch them in for a hit-and-run strike while the coast is clear. This strategy also works well with abilities that instantly fill an active gauge, since they take full advantage of the high-delay attacks you're using.

Here are some characters that work well with this strategy:

Enablers:
Iku
Reimu
Kaguya
Ran
Yukari
Rinnosuke

Damage dealers:
Youmu
Suwako
Yuugi
Kanako
Shikieiki
Mokou
Suika
Marisa
Maribel
Utsuho

DPS archetype - This strategy simply asks that you leave in your characters to attack quickly with low delay attacks. The lower delay allows them to act often and react as necessary, such as if they need to switch themselves or others out. While the overall damage output for this strategy may be lower than the previous, this is also a more flexible and adaptable strategy, with many characters that are interchangeable instead of having your team rely on specific linchpins. This is where speed buffs shine, as increased speed translates directly to more actions, which can be very powerful.

Some characters that work well with this strategy:

Enablers:
Iku (She's just too good at everything)
Aya
Sakuya
Minoriko
Sanae
Keine

Damage dealers:
Patchouli
Alice
Orin
Remilia
Flandre
Chen
Komachi
Yuyuko
Yuuka

Characters that I haven't listed (like Meiling, Mystia, Reisen, Cirno, etc.) are good in pretty much any strategy; these are just specific ones that I believe fit one role better than the other. Do note, though, that some characters on these lists can still work reasonably well in the other strategy. For example, most characters with buffs can do fine enabling either strategy, but they just happen to do a bit more for one than the other.

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #687 on: July 06, 2012, 03:29:44 AM »
Doesn't Yuka fit more under Burst than DPS?  Aside from Flower Shot (which I recall being like a moderate-delay Flight of Itaden) all her attacks set delay to like 0~15%.

Unless I'm remembering wrong and/or undervaluing Flower Shot.

Parallaxal

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #688 on: July 06, 2012, 03:44:02 AM »
Well, she can fit in both. Although I believe she does more damage with Flower Shot spam than with her other spells if you just leave her in due to its low delay and reasonable damage formula, so I figured she would fit in well enough with the rest of the DPSers. But you're right, she works well in either setup. I just listed her there because I wanted to even out the two lists, haha...

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F
« Reply #689 on: July 06, 2012, 04:52:34 AM »
Yuka's multitargets aren't all that strong. Flower Shot isn't particularly strong either, but it has low CD to make up for it.

edit:Oh right, Master Spark. Okay, Master Spark is strong. Not nearly as strong as Marisa's though :c Any of the star dedicated nukers would deal more damage, without losing their entire MP pool.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 04:54:07 AM by Serela »
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