Labyrinth of Touhou 8F

[DarkAtma]

I got a dilenma  :V i cant decide between komachi or yukari, anyone got a good comparison between these two?

[Parallaxal]

They do completely unrelated things.

Komachi is mostly a physical DPS character, and is in fact the only strong SPI-elemental physical attacker in the game. Yes, her HP is very high, but she's not a good tank because she requires a ton of babysitting from a healer to survive due to her terrible defenses (Minoriko is practically required for that job). Contrast with Meiling, Tenshi, or even tier 3 tanks like Keine, Sakuya, and Wriggle, who can go for a while without heals after some buffs. However, Komachi's ATK growth is also quite good, and Scythe that Chooses the Dead has a strong damage formula for its good delay. She's got a side use of debuffing DEF/MND/SPD with Narrow Confines of Avici, so she's got great utility as well, but her primary role should be to pump out lots of physical SPI damage.

Yukari is mainly a support character, as her most useful spells are her DEF/MND buff and Spiriting Away. Her PAR/SPD debuff spell isn't as strong as other options, so I usually just use it for random mobs. But her buffs are just as good as Reimu's (so very good, in other words), and Spiriting Away can be a game-changer. It takes work to make it good, and tends to be party-dependent, but when used to its best effect it can absolutely destroy many bosses.

The two work better in different party configurations. Komachi works best in teams that make good use of DPS-type characters with good delay who don't need to switch out, and uses SPD buffs a lot better than high-delay nukers. Yukari prefers to work with high-delay nukers, who allow her to maximize the effectiveness of Spiriting Away. Look at what your team has more of, and make your decision based on that.

[Raikaria]

Being lazy, not progressing much, but beat Round 2 of St.Elmo's Fire.

It started with Destroy Magic, so I just responded by switching in my AoE Nukes and killing the Pressures with Blazing Wheel and Mountain of Faith. From there, it was holding out while it spammed Wind of Souls until my initial party had enough SP. After a CoVT Remillia was dealing 4k+ per Spear. After Miricle Fruit Orin's Cat's Walk was dealing over 1k, and I used a Guidance on her to speed her up to obscene levels. By the time I'd actually got my buffs on because of Destroy Magic, everything was smooth sailing.

Although the spam of Wind of Souls beforehand while I was stalling for SP killed Sukia and Cirno.

[Esoterica]

Been a long time since I've played this game, thinking about starting a new game (old file left off at 22F I think).  I'm thinking I'll run a specific team this time though, since that's what everyone else seems to be doing now.  :V

I'm thinking I'll probably use:
Iku
Yuka
Yuyuko
Mystia
Eirin (never really used her at all in my first run)
Remilia
Might use Meiling as my tank instead of Tenshi this time, but I like Tenshi more as a character and she worked great last time.  Then again, Meiling'd synergize better with Eirin...

Which leaves five slots remaining.  Five slots that I'm clueless on. :derp:  Obviously need at least one healer, don't know who else I'd want at all.

Still clueless as to who I want for the last five slots.  Any suggestions?

EDIT: Okay I just noticed I have no PAR-inflicters outside of Mystia, that would need to be remedied for sure.  Minoriko + two PAR-inflicters + at least one more nuker + idk, I suppose?

[draganuv15]

Hmm... This game keeps dragging me back to it, and with 7 weeks of holiday (YESYESYES) I decided to random a team.

So... How's this?

33-Maribel
37-Yuuka
19-Suwako
24-Tenshi
23-Eirin
1-Reimu
7-Meiling
34-Renko
10-Youmu
32-Kourin
3-Remilia

I think it's good personally, but I need a pro's opinion  :derp:

[I have no name]

Meiling, Minoriko/Reimu, Suwako, 2 of Suika/Youmu/Yuugi
That covers pretty much everything as far as I can tell.

self-buff, NTR, PAR+NTR, tank, healer, healer/buffer, tank, debuffer, nuke, super-buffer, tanky DPS...that's only 11.

Overall though since you have Reimu, Meiling and Remilia you should be able to get through the early game without too much SP issue.

[Esoterica]

Looks a little tank heavy, imo.  You have both main tanks and two of the tougher secondary tanks in the party, I don't think you need 33% of the group devoted to tanking.  No offensive buffs either (unless you count Kourin).

Technically it should perform alright, though.  I can't immediately think of anything where that party would struggle.

Meiling, Minoriko/Reimu, Suwako, 2 of Suika/Youmu/Yuugi
That covers pretty much everything as far as I can tell.

Well technically slot 7 was a debate between Meiling and Tenshi, so there'd still be a slot left :derp:

Could take all three between Suika/Youmu/Yuugi but I'm not terribly fond of the onis.

[draganuv15]

Looks a little tank heavy, imo.  You have both main tanks and two of the tougher secondary tanks in the party, I don't think you need 33% of the group devoted to tanking.  No offensive buffs either (unless you count Kourin).

Technically it should perform alright, though.  I can't immediately think of anything where that party would struggle.

Yays, I'm not fucked after all. I did see it a little tank heavy, and my main damage dealers are probably going to be Youmu and Yuuka, While Suwako can stun crap and Reimu and Eirin (to an extent) can heal and stuff.
Obvious who is going to be tank... And Maribel will be on standby until I need to rip the shit out of something.

[Hanzo K.]

Personally, I'd drop Kourin in favor of Iku.
Common consensus and my own experience shows that Iku's generally better.
And the 12th should be an attacker or buffer. Either Flan or Yukari would suffice.
And I'd probably swap Eirin out for Minoriko or something, since you can only do so much with her.

And to be honest, you really need a speedy trash-killer, like Chen/Aya/Orin.
I think Youmu also falls under that, but her moves are so expensive that I wouldn't consider her for that, she's more a boss-killer type in my book.

[Pesco]

Mystia's PAR is more than enough as long as she's got the SP.

[draganuv15]

Thanks for suggestions, but I'm going to stick with these guys for now and see how it turns out.
EDIT: Oops, I had missed a character, I ended up getting 9-Minoriko

[Parallaxal]

Aya has been rathering disappointing as a speedy trash sweeper, in my experience. Her damage output isn't that great without buffs, even if you go full-ATK with her, and a lot of fast enemies are resistant to WND anyway.

But you know who is an amazing speedy trash sweeper? MAG-build Ran. Totally carrying my current team through the hellish mobs of floors 13+.

[Raikaria]

Aya has been rathering disappointing as a speedy trash sweeper, in my experience. Her damage output isn't that great without buffs, even if you go full-ATK with her, and a lot of fast enemies are resistant to WND anyway.

But you know who is an amazing speedy trash sweeper? MAG-build Ran. Totally carrying my current team through the hellish mobs of floors 13+.

Yeah, once I hit Floor 6 I've started to notice Aya's trashclearing die off, at least, in a solo sense. Aya + Cirno is enough to clear most things.

You know who hasn't stopped killing everything?

Sanae. Hardly anything lives her Guest Stars, albeit, prior damage is usually done because she's slow, but it still hits harder than Divine Grandson, Diamond Blizzard, or Earthlight Ray.

Which is weird, seeing as I'm mainly building defenses on Sanae.

[Serela]

Sanae's attack will get less exciting later, even if she was in a MAG-build. Early on attacks scale differently.

Speaking of scaling, in Plus, Aya's random battle offensive picks up again since she'll be attacking so damn fast.

MAG-build Ran is simply lovely, though. She's still really durable, her multihits are fantastic for randoms, and her composite skill, after she's buffed, has high damage and a pretty low delay to boot.

[Battler]

Personally, I generally prefer building characters to be more useful for boss battles, unless random encounters are all they're really good for. I just don't like using MAG Ran frankly, it feels like I'm limiting her potential to be an 2nd-slot buffer, which is what I find her most useful as.

I think my favorite trash sweeper is probably Orin. Her only real weakness is how fast Blazing Wheel drains her SP, but there's plenty of ways around that.

[Parallaxal]

Nah, Iku is the best second-slot buffer. Ran should sit in the 3rd slot, get buffed by Iku, and spam Soaring En no Ozuno for massive DPS.

As far as I'm concerned, that's my ideal role.

[Hanzo K.]

I actually pair Aya with Chen, have Aya use that multi-target, and have Chen use Phoenix Spread Wings.
Stuff tends to die in short order afterwards. If not, Patchy's around for cleanup.

[I have no name]

I have finally begun my draft team runthrough...only to have to stop in a couple days for a camping trip  :getdown:

Did some leveling, fought Chen at Reimu level 4.  Did not use death, Youmu hit for 1000 with Slash of Eternity.  Suika hit for 800 with Throwing Atlas.  Only 2 casualties, Keine and Suika as both were acting as tanks.

Then I went around the back way and fought Meiling.  If anything it was easier than Chen, Youmu and Suika both hit for 800 while Minoriko continued to exceed all expectations with consistent 300 damage hits.

So far I'm going full support Keine/Rinnosuke/Yukari/Alice (not entirely sure about Alice), pure nuke Youmu+Suika+Utsuho+ MAG Yuyuko+ MAG Minoriko with Reimu being an all-around character and Mystia and Chen being speedsters who kill things before they move.

[Serela]

No offense, but full support Alice and magic Minoriko both sound like pretty bad ideas. Alice's damage would be pretty bad after scaling set in (Nor is her DEF -that- good), and Minoriko still fullheals with a MND build. (And no, minoriko's attacks are not even decent even in a MAG build. After awhile they start to just suck. Yeah, the single target almost completely ignoring MND gives it a little bit of utility in randoms, but it's still pretty weak)

[I have no name]

Then 1/3 MAG 2/3 MND for Minoriko then on level-ups.
Alice if probably one of the better characters I have to stick in the second slot-can she stay there comfortably with most level-ups going into MAG?

[Esoterica]

Didn't really use Minoriko myself but I doubt you need to put any levelups in her MAG.  Just buff her with Iku if the heals aren't big enough or something.

EDIT: Actually I don't know your team composition now that I think about it :derp:  Lemme browse through the thread quick...

EDITEDIT: Yeah okay you do have MAG buffs available if it's absolutely necessary.  Good to know.

EDITEDITEDIT: Was rereading old posts and noticed

I'd personally ban Eirin because nobody really wants to use her :V.

This has me wondering if I should reconsider her for my team.  I was admittedly underwhelmed when I tried her in my previous run, but she was built for MND; I found MND Yuyuko to be pretty worthless but MAG Yuyuko to be the main damage in my team.

Granted I didn't ever get to try out different roles with her, but is she really that bad? :ohdear:

[Fayrea]

What the heck is the level requirement for Flandre and the Great Stamp?
I walked into their battles since I thought I could take them. Then, I got my ass handed to me immediately.

[Esoterica]

What the heck is the level requirement for Flandre and the Great Stamp?
I walked into their battles since I thought I could take them. Then, I got my ass handed to me immediately.

Wiki says 65-70 for Great Stamp, 75-80 for Flandre.

I think I was around 72 when I did the Flandre fight, but I just barely won that (as I said a page or two back, I was down to Tenshi switching Kaguya in and out for Hourai Barrages between Laveateinns, and Sanae for emergency healing if Tenshi's health started to dip :V)

[Parallaxal]

Welp, went and defeated Rinnosuke. My party levels ranged from 79 (Yuyuko) to 91 (Minoriko).

Rinnosuke was a challenge for this team, since I lacked both a top tier tank (like Meiling/Tenshi) and any form of multi-target healing (since Rinnosuke uses so many multi-target attacks). Keine was able to hold down the 1st slot reasonably well, though, with enough HP and defenses to survive any of Rinnosuke's attacks. Still, Minoriko had her hands full trying frantically to keep everyone healed. I had to take a lot of chances with leaving low HP characters like Flandre in, but somehow my gambits still paid off (most of the time). My top damage dealers were actually Reisen, Flandre, and Youmu. Ran got sniped early, Patchouli was silenced by Sealing Slash (despite having a Ribbon equipped), Maribel had SP issues (but otherwise was OK), and Suwako and Yuyuko both got off one extremely powerful attack against Rinnosuke's weaknesses before becoming incapacitated in one way or another. I didn't use Shikieiki until the very final form, when she worked with Youmu to eliminate Rinnosuke before his 2nd turn.

Flandre got very lucky and just stayed in for like 3 different forms, spamming Starbow Break for 60-90k damage depending on buffs, all the while narrowly avoiding death until a Wind of Souls wiped her out. Reisen buffed herself like crazy (she's transcended most of her SP issues by now) and was able to stay in safely against 3 or 4 forms before succumbing to Rinnosuke's second-to-last form. Youmu survived the whole ordeal and did quite a number to 4 different forms. Sakuya and Keine traded turns in slot 1 while passing out buffs, and both managed to survive the entire fight, as did Minoriko.

Now onwards to floor 19...the dreaded floor that takes like 3-4 hours to fully explore.

[Esoterica]

Random thought; how horrible of an idea would it be to not have Reimu in the party?

Thinking about dropping her for Yukari, but then I'd have Sanae and Eirin(LOL) for healers.

Also probably just going to go with Tenshi over Meiling again, I like Tenshi a lot more as a character and she feels more self-sufficient to me.

Or maybe I'll work Keine in somehow...decisions decisions...

Whatever, I've got this.

Current lineup:
Tenshi
Iku
Reimu
Remilia
Mystia
Patchouli
Yuka
Yuyuko
Eirin
Sanae
Kanako or Youmu (DECISIONS)
Ran

[Parallaxal]

I would go with Youmu for your team. You've already got enough MAG damage dealers with Patchouli, Yuyuko, and Yuuka. Plus Youmu's nuke damage output is usually higher than Kanako's anyway, and can be elemental or non-elemental.

Not having Reimu isn't really that bad if you've got Tenshi, since that's one person you rarely have to heal anyway. I've played through the main game before with Tenshi as tank and Sanae as my only healer.

[qazmlpok]

As it is clear that 3peso isn't going to update the game again, I've started working on fixing the remaining issues. With mauve's help I was able to restore the spell graphics to Meiling's mountain breaker and Youmu's slash of eternity (which also fixed Alice's dolls' defensive buffs. I wasn't even aware they had a missing graphic).

I also have a good number of translation fixes that never got included with a previous release, mostly missing translations (a few bits of dialogue, Shikieiki V2's name, The World, ...). I'm hoping that everything has been caught by now, but I don't have any way to validate this automatically. So this is my first question:

Is anyone interested in beta testing a new version of the English patch to look for any missing/broken/awkward translations throughout the entire game? I've noticed that a lot of people in this thread seem to be doing a new playthrough; it'd be fine to beta test using that playthrough, although someone would still need to check the earlier floors. I'd also recommend saving before fighting Okuu or Shikieiki (see below).

In addition to the image and translation fixes, I've also been trying to add the sound effects to Okuu, Yuuka, and Shikieiki's attacks (Giga Flare, Uncontained Nuclear Reaction, Hell's Tokamak, Flower Shot, Gensokyo's Reflowering, Beauty of Nature, Last Judgment, and Bar of the Ten Kings do not have any sound effects when used by the boss/v2 but do when used by the player). The problem is that the code for playing these sounds is completely gone, and I haven't had any success in trying to add it back in from the player version. I was able to use a cheap hack to get the sound to work for Giga Flare, Hell's Tokamak, and Bar of the Ten Kings by using the player display function rather than the enemy, but this causes unfortunate side effects when applied to the other spells. So my second question:  Anyone here reasonably skilled with assembly/runtime debugging and think they can find a way to re-add the missing sound effects? I'm completely at a loss at this point.

[Serela]

You can certainly get by without Reimu, but if you aren't trying to challenge yourself, don't do it. Even if you can get by fine, it's certainly not going to make bosses any easier on you.

I'm not sure how well Tenshi works in plus, but the issue is that a single attack that can overwhelm her defenses will just kill her. And there's a lot more of those getting used around in Plus. Meiling is more universally reliable. I think people have used only Tenshi through Plus and been okay, though.

Granted I didn't ever get to try out different roles with her, but is she really that bad? :ohdear:

Astronomical Entombing is alright and gives her possible use as tanky damage dealer, but it'll work out a good bit worse then Yuyuko, who has the same Tanky-With-A-Super-Expensive-Nuke schtick, so it's better to just use Yuyuko if you want to do that. They're even both SPI element :V

All of Eirin's other moves will deal shitty damage even in randoms, in a MAG build.

[Pesco]

Is anyone interested in beta testing a new version of the English patch to look for any missing/broken/awkward translations throughout the entire game? I've noticed that a lot of people in this thread seem to be doing a new playthrough; it'd be fine to beta test using that playthrough, although someone would still need to check the earlier floors. I'd also recommend saving before fighting Okuu or Shikieiki (see below).

I've got a few saves with varying amounts of progress. Otherwise someone can just turn off encounters and speedrun the floors with a hacked team for the testing.

[qazmlpok]

I've got a few saves with varying amounts of progress. Otherwise someone can just turn off encounters and speedrun the floors with a hacked team for the testing.

Got one with boss Yuuka, Okuu, and Shiki unlocked but not beaten? That'd certainly be simpler for testing those three than trying my luck on 30F.

A speedrun would be useful, but it unfortunately won't catch everything, just events and boss dialogue. It'd naturally skip right over all the enemy names and attacks. It's possible but unlikely that something broke with the latest build, or that there's something else like The World that never got translated and was never noticed. A full playthrough would be preferable, especially since people are playing the game anyway.