Touhou Gameplay Help Thread #7 - Not just for spell card help after all

[Drake]

Completely unrelated to the above, does Shou have some logic to her movement during "Aura of Justice"? I feel like she's constantly moving away from me which makes dealing damage a pain because of how restrictive the attack is.

Random. Many boss patterns in UFO (and others) have random movement, it's just really obvious in things like Aura of Justice and Sinkable Vortex.

[Karisa]

Unlike most games, these bombs get the same nonspell damage multiplier as your shots do so they're really good for killing nonspells.

I thought bomb damage was only weakened in the EoSD to IN engine, not in the MoF+ engine?

Also, in MoF onwards, you can shoot normally during most bombs (while you frequently can't with EoSD to IN's bombs). So they're worth more damage overall than just the direct bomb damage. MoF bombs are quite powerful overall, enough to skip most boss patterns with a single bomb.

[FamilyTeam]

Hmmm...
Honestly, Marisa Bugged is so broken, and makes the game so easy, I'll aim for a 1LC with all spells captured instead, because that genuinely feels doable. I'll just have to, yunno, stop running into bullets all the time.
Yeah, I was already an extremely aggressive player, but with this glitch, for whatever reason I get massively aggressive, so I do end up running into bullets a lot, heh -\(o3o)/- I think I need to give myself a hint: Stop being so suicidal.

[Nameschonvergeben]

Hmmm...
Honestly, Marisa Bugged is so broken, and makes the game so easy, I'll aim for a 1LC with all spells captured instead, because that genuinely feels doable. I'll just have to, yunno, stop running into bullets all the time.
Yeah, I was already an extremely aggressive player, but with this glitch, for whatever reason I get massively aggressive, so I do end up running into bullets a lot, heh -\(o3o)/- I think I need to give myself a hint: Stop being so suicidal.

Just go for a legit 1cc instead of abusing a bug for a 1LC without challenge

[FamilyTeam]

Just go for a legit 1cc instead of abusing a bug for a 1LC without challenge

I will do so, at a later date,but for now, I'm just gonna mess around with this for a bit of fun o3o After I heal my ankle, I'll try to do it on my computer with Marisa A instead.

EDIT: Played the game the farthest I could using the glitch. No I didn't finish it, it's extremely hard to dodge anything when you have to play the game balancing a notebook in your chest  and also using a controller. It was very hard not to run into everything onscreen and impossible to dodge any of the spells that required precision. I did get to Mountain of Faith, though.
Damn, that gives Red Magic and Resurrection Butterfly a run for their money. How long does it last, and... how to you dodge it properly o3o

[Nolegs the Cat]

I did get to Mountain of Faith, though.
Damn, that gives Red Magic and Resurrection Butterfly a run for their money. How long does it last, and... how to you dodge it properly o3o

...It's hard to explain, really.
Mountain of Faith is one of those attacks you get better at the more you play. The more you play, the more sense you get for the overall pattern, and the more you'll be able to judge where will be safe and where it won't be safe.

Watch a replay of 1cc on normal of a shot-type of your choice (I'd recommend MarisaB without abusing the bug, actually... Vsync fixes it outright, and it's not difficult to not abuse it - and it's much much less finnicky than MarisaA or MarisaC), because in MoF (and only in MoF) that will unlock all the stages for practice.
If you want to get better at Mountain of Faith, there's only really one thing you can do - play it a bunch.
Even so, try to get to it with a few lives at the end of your 1cc attempts

[FamilyTeam]

Thanks a bunch! I'm just abusing the glitch out of curiosity and fun and because, like I said before, precision dodging is impossible when you're balancing the computer you're playing on in your chest and also to unlock all the stages for practice and to get a feel of the spell cards.

[Pakken11]

Actually, the most "cheating" shot type in MoF without actually cheating like Cho-Marisa is Reimu-A.
Her homing amulets are so strong in this game, if you use it right you don't even have to dodge half the stages lol

[FamilyTeam]

Actually, the most "cheating" shot type in MoF without actually cheating like Cho-Marisa is Reimu-A.
Her homing amulets are so strong in this game, if you use it right you don't even have to dodge half the stages lol

That explains why my friend 1ccd MOF so quickly
That's nice to know, but MARISA FOREVER!!!

Playing Touhou is a lot more fun when you like who you're playing as ^3^
I just think it's sad that sometimes, choosing Marisa almost seems like choosing the hardest character.

[shockdude]

The VSyncPatch has an option to fix the MarisaB bug in MoF. However, replays saved will only replay properly if the VSyncPatch MarisaB fix is active, and will desync without VSyncPatch.

[Nolegs the Cat]

That explains why my friend 1ccd MOF so quickly
I just think it's sad that sometimes, choosing Marisa almost seems like choosing the hardest character.

EoSD shot types are roughly balanced.

The worst shot-type in PCB is actually ReimuA - her homing does such hilariously low damage, half or less than half of any other shot-types, and her bombs do piss damage and are only up for a second or so...

Worst shot-type in IN is arguably Sakuya/Alice Solo shots, but Malice Team is the hardest team shot type.

ReimuC in MoF is definitely the worst MoF shot, it does such low damage - similar to PCB ReimuA - without at least the guarantee of hitting something.
Oh, and MarisaC is the best shot-type in MoF if you can use it well, just putting that out there :V

SA: Okay, okay. Marisa in SA has some bad shots.
But really, the only decent one is ReimuA... but ReimuC has powerful bombs I guess, and Patchouli Marisa has good shots for the stages.

UFO: MarisaB is the worst shot I think..?
Though the bomb not killing UFOs can help for auto-collection -shrug-

TD: ... I actually don't know what the worst shot in TD is. Youmu gets points for being very hard to use, but beyond that... maybe Sanae?

DDC: Sakuya-B is the worst shot-type... which, considering her last 2 shot-types (PCB SakuyaA OP for survival, PCB SakuyaB best scoring shot) is suprising.
It's actually the best scoring shot though, so I guess that counts for something.

The worst shot type is for a decent chunk of the games actually not Marisa.

And as a lover of MoF ReimuA, yay for absolute cheesiness?
... I've been using it for so long I don't know how to do the stages without it :V

[Pakken11]

@Cat: MoF Reimu-C is actually nice for training - fun fact, she was my 2nd legit MoF Lunatic 1cc after Reimu-A. I think it was the confidence for abusing bombs since I do the same damage whether I'm at 5.0 or 1.0 ROFL
And yeah, Marisa-C can be used just like Reimu-A if you memorize the stages, and it does ridiculous damage during bosses - only shot-type that I captured VoWG Lunatic on lol #pureluck

I actually like Marisa-A best in SA, but that's because I like the 8 short cheat-deaths lol

And I had to abandon Marisa for Sanae-A in UFO because, well, it's UFO - and Marisa-B's main issue is the overly short bomb immunity, which lets you run into things even before all the flashing has disappeared.

TD would probably be Sanae, since her focused shot has a nasty habit of circling around bosses.

And I don't know if DDC Luna 1cc with Sakuya-B or UFO Luna 1cc with Marisa-B would be harder lol

[Uruwi]

EoSD: MarisaB is particularly finnicky for both survival and score. ReimuB has the most difficult Patchy fight IMO.
PCB: Agreed that ReimuA isn't good.
IN: Besides Marisa/Alice, Yuyuko's shot, which is used whenever you focus, has less than spectacular damage in exchange for spread.
MoF: Not accounting for the glitch, ReimuB is the best in my opinion.
SA: MarisaB's shot switching ability is of situational use, since it's too easy to inadvertently switch shots. MarisaA has the hardest Stage 2.
UFO: SanaeB is better than A.
TD: Besides Youmu, I actually think Marisa is the worst shot type.
DDC: Both Marisa shot types are horrible. Marisa B at least gets points for the Magic Absorber.

[Nolegs the Cat]

IN: Besides Marisa/Alice, Yuyuko's shot, which is used whenever you focus, has less than spectacular damage in exchange for spread.

Yuyuko solo? okay, fine. She trivilized the stages but isn't that great for the bosses.
But with Youmu, her one weakness can be covered - Yuyuko for the stages, Youmu when possible to zerg down bosses.
Hard to use, yes, but not bad.

MoF: Not accounting for the glitch, ReimuB is the best in my opinion.

Have you seen how MarisaC trivialises the stages?
It's the strongest legit shot type in MoF for bosses after that, too. ReimuB is good, but I don't see how you can think it's better than MarisaC.

Also I think that Reimu's homing is really really powerful in MoF, and that it makes the stages muuuch easier for the most part. Add to the fact you'll be using bombs to cheese the hard stuff regardless, I think it's an easier 1cc than ReimuB.

SA: MarisaB's shot switching ability is of situational use, since it's too easy to inadvertently switch shots. MarisaA has the hardest Stage 2.

It's just something to get used too...
Also, the spread would probably help for a lot of the stage 2 stage portion.
You could just time out her second spellcard since it's piss easy if you don't shoot the clone.
So I don't see how she has the hardest stage 2.

UFO: SanaeB is better than A.

... I never said it wasn't?

TD: Besides Youmu, I actually think Marisa is the worst shot type.

There's a lot of patterns in TD where her fat hitbox doesn't make that much of a difference and her high firepower lets her take down the games many big fairies in the stages faster.
Difficult to use compared to Reimu, yes, but not the worst. In fact, I'd say if you could use her properly she's probably BETTER than Reimu in this game - it's just homing etc. makes Reimu the easiest 1cc.
Same for Youmu. Very very hard to use but when used properly, very powerful. Probably the best shot type in TD.

DDC: Both Marisa shot types are horrible. Marisa B at least gets points for the Magic Absorber.

And? SakuyaB is still worse than those, somehow.
Also if you really want to use it that way, Magic Absorber CAN be used to absolutely break the game. :V

[Pakken11]

@Fluffy: Cat said a lot already, but a couple things:

I prefer Sanae-A just because it's easier to kill UFOs when you want it where you want it. Many people disagree, I still found the homing easier than spread.

And you definitely haven't played DDC on Lunatic - Marisa-B pretty much makes resources EX-NIHILO rofl
I've actually had runs where I had 3 lives after Kagerou, then got up to 7 by Yatsuhashi  :V

[Uruwi]

Have you seen how MarisaC trivialises the stages?
It's the strongest legit shot type in MoF for bosses after that, too. ReimuB is good, but I don't see how you can think it's better than MarisaC.

I've actually never tried MarisaC, so I was speaking from my own experience.

It's just something to get used too...
Also, the spread would probably help for a lot of the stage 2 stage portion.
You could just time out her second spellcard since it's piss easy if you don't shoot the clone.
So I don't see how she has the hardest stage 2.

But you don't get the life piece for timing out spells.

[Pakken11]

With the Red-Blue card, you just do unfocused and stop shooting much earlier than you think. Easy.

[Koog]

So, just beat Kaguya.

I need many, many, many tips for Rin in general. All non-spells, all spells. PLZ HELP!!

[Pakken11]

The corpse cat?

1st non - focus more on the black stars than on the icicles. Or you could cheese it by staying near her hand and not dodging anything apparently lol

1st spell - if you use a spread shot you can just seal the zombies, but if you're Reimu-A then you will have to do the spinning thing around her. It might be wise to just stop shooting at certain points. Also, spinning clockwise is much easier since the blue wave does the same.

2nd non - don't stay at the bottom, but somewhere in the middle. The side spirits' bullets are aimed, so try not to shoot them beforehand and thus mess up your timing.

2nd spell - depends on the difficulty, and I actually find it one of her more annoying cards (easy to attempt and die). Don't stay too close to Orin or you'll crash into her. Try to get out of the "wheel" as early as possible to minimize collision with next wave/trapping yourself.

3rd non - her most dangerous non. Stay between two columns and watch for the diagonal criss-crossing bullets, then sidestep. The trick is to not panic and move too early. Focus on getting used to the timing of sidestepping.

3rd spell - bomb. No seriously, anything above Normal is just not worth attempting at 1cc level, especially if your bomb is short-ranged. The Lunatic version, as well as Cat Walk Lunatic, is generally thought to be some of the hardest cards to capture.

4th spell - similar to the first card. I usually just bomb it (very low health), but I believe the red bubbles are aimed at you iirc.

/UnhelpfulExplanations (I'm sorry ._.;; )

[Mr Jovial]

When you end a last spell in IN, are any point items dropped? Want to know if I'm supposed to rush into the PoC after I end a last spell... :derp:

[SomeGuy712x]

When you end a last spell in IN, are any point items dropped? Want to know if I'm supposed to rush into the PoC after I end a last spell... :derp:

Umm... If I recall correctly, I don't think Last Spells drop point items upon their completion, so you shouldn't have to worry about that. But, just to be sure, just pay close attention when you finish off Last Spells to see if point items appear.

[FamilyTeam]

Hey everyone.
In my quest to get a IN Normal 1CC, I realised that Stage 6 with Malice is a bit hard. Is there are sort of hidden strategy to do it? (Final B)
EDIT: I tried to 1CC it, but even though this run was REALLY bad, I still nearly got it. I got a bunch of deaths with bombs in stock, a bunch of overshot dodges and a ton of unnecessary bombing, yet I only game overed pretty much 60% into Rainbow Danmaku, which atleast I think it's the last spell in the game.
I actually did *really* well at Kaguya, I'm actually schocked at how easy she is. It's been a while since I fought her.

[Petroesjka]

I can't, for the life of me, figure out how to navigate fluently when Seija (DDC Stage 5) inverts the controls/screen. Any tips?

[FamilyTeam]

I know it's probably cheating, but there is a combination of keys that inverts your screen in Windows. I wonder if that works in games?...  :derp:
Probably doesn't work, don't try it.

[Karisa]

When you end a last spell in IN, are any point items dropped? Want to know if I'm supposed to rush into the PoC after I end a last spell... :derp:

It seems I missed this earlier somehow. I suspect you've checked this for yourself by now, but for anyone wondering-- IN Last Spells don't drop point items. Regular final spells do drop point items, though, which is relevant for Kaguya and Easy mode.

Edit: I thought Marisa's Last Spell dropped small point items, but it doesn't.

[FamilyTeam]

Ah, also, I haven't really paid attention, but after you defeat the boss' last spell, if you have enough time points to trigger Last Word, the boss will drop point and power items, which doesn't normally happen. Capturing the Last Word spell doesn't make 'em drop any more of them, though.
This is with Marisa, btw, dunno about Reimu. Also, after you capture their last spell, they only drop like 4 point items and 2 power items, or something like that, so it's not like they drop too much.

[SomeGuy712x]

Ah, also, I haven't really paid attention, but after you defeat the boss' last spell, if you have enough time points to trigger Last Word, the boss will drop point and power items, which doesn't normally happen. Capturing the Last Word spell doesn't make 'em drop any more of them, though.
This is with Marisa, btw, dunno about Reimu. Also, after you capture their last spell, they only drop like 4 point items and 2 power items, or something like that, so it's not like they drop too much.

Actually, whether or not you have enough time points for the Last Spell, you will still get items from the boss's final regular spell after you complete it. I just tested this on stage 2 on Normal, and I defeated Mystia's final regular spell with too few time points to trigger the Last Spell, and I still got 14 point items from it. (I watched my point item counter rise from 116 to 130 when I finished off that spell.)

[FamilyTeam]

Good to know. You know in the past games, the bosses didn't drop anything after the last spell, and I assumed it was the same here.

[Mr Jovial]

IN Last Spells don't drop regular point items (though Marisa's drops small items

I didn't see any on Marisa's Maybe I just missed it because replays speed up right as that attack ends because of the dialogue
Anyway I have another question. I'm trying to learn the scoring method for Mystia's "midboss" spell (Howl of the Horned Owl, the one where you dance around circle around Mystia a lot) but after her second movement she seems to always be at the top of the screen and I need to go quite high to get through a gap (marked with the green arrow, yes it's a terrible picture). Is there a way to get Mystia to move down on that second movement or am I at the mercy of RNG?

[Sakurei]

Vertical boss movement is random. You're at her mercy.