Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F  (Read 158294 times)

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Pesco

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Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« on: December 26, 2012, 07:07:36 am »
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 02:32:34 pm by Pesco »

koakoa

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 06:20:51 pm »
Woo, another floor granted to us by the mystic powers of LoT2~

That said, any info about this going to be at C83, or must we wait more so?
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2012, 06:23:36 pm »
C84 looks more likely. Can't complain with a demo version at C83 if possible.

koakoa

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2012, 06:35:55 pm »
It'd be too much of a tease to release infos about it, and not have a demo at c83.
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qazmlpok

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2012, 08:32:49 pm »
It'd be too much of a tease to release infos about it, and not have a demo at c83.
From what I was told, no demo is ready. He has considered making a demo and releasing it to get feedback, but decided against it for now at least. He probably won't sell a demo at all and will just put it up on his site for free; I believe that's how both LoT and AK worked. There probably will be a demo eventually, but there's no hint as to when that'll be just yet.

As for links, I think a link to his blog and/or an announcement for LoT2 would be nice.

Eilaris

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 03:15:17 am »
As for links, I think a link to his blog and/or an announcement for LoT2 would be nice.

Agreed there, also, the 2.06B patch link is dead (and probably unnecessary at this point).  Maybe replace it with a 3.01 patch link?
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2012, 08:21:58 am »
Can not wait to see LoT2 demo...
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koakoa

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2012, 10:29:09 pm »
None of us can.

That said, was there any translation or overview of the information they posted so far?
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 02:09:58 am »
Never thought it would end up getting a sequel after so long, wasn't the developer suffering delays with some other unrelated project?  Really looking forward to the demo though.

Ikari

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 02:48:29 am »
Do you guys think he'll try to bring EVA back?

I hope not Dx

Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 02:51:15 am »
I'm happy with EVA being useless. It lets me focus on buffing the stats characters are best at.
Also, just beat Nitori and Reisen. Woot, Floors 10-12! I've heard they're annoying. Very annoying.
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Ikari

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2012, 02:56:19 am »
I'm happy with EVA being useless. It lets me focus on buffing the stats characters are best at.
Also, just beat Nitori and Reisen. Woot, Floors 10-12! I've heard they're annoying. Very annoying.

Oh yeah, no EVA completely prevents any "oops you missed'' bullshit, especially since god knows this game simply LIVES on nukes.

Oh and I'm sure you'll have LOTS of fun on floor 10-12.

Hint: IT'S HEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2012, 03:43:48 am »
Well, whether or not Arcanum Knights has Eva I think would be a good indicator. However, I think if it does come back, it'd probably be in a manner that isn't how it was originally implemented in ThLaby; aka, the worst kind of scaling ever.

You can't give characters steady increases in EVA in a game where ACC is a flat, unchanging number! It would have been okay if EVA had been like a status resist kind of thing on your characters; however, in the end, the game is probably just best without it. The issue is a lot of attacks that were meant to be nice because of high accuracy became horrible. (Hi Sakuya's perfect-accuracy hit attack that's reallllly expensive for it's degree of power and her SP, hi Sanae's useless EVA debuff)
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Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2012, 03:47:44 am »
Quote
Hint: IT'S HEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLL.

I got that fact when I saw that there's both a huge maze (go using three maps at once to see what the hell I'm doing) and there's enemies that no longer die to a single Asteroid Belt and hurt like crazy. This'll take a while...
It seems that in every Touhou RPG I'm playing, I've gotten to that "hell" part.
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2012, 04:02:27 am »
You can't give characters steady increases in EVA in a game where ACC is a flat, unchanging number!
My impression of how it was supposed to work was the enemy's evade stat would always be within a certain range, with the value just depending on the type of enemy rather than the floor/level/etc. So it's fine that your own accuracy is unchanging, since the enemies aren't getting any higher evade either.

Then it would be different when the roles were reversed. Enemies keep getting more accurate, but your own evade keeps improving as well. And maybe the stat gets used in some weird way, kind of like speed.

Still, I'm not really sure why it would be made that way, and not have it the same between enemies and players. If you do know how it was actually going to be used then maybe I'm just wrong.

Ikari

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2012, 04:13:53 am »
(Hi Sakuya's perfect-accuracy hit attack that's reallllly expensive for it's degree of power and her SP, hi Sanae's useless EVA debuff)

Eeeexactly.

Also Chen. It's a freaking MIRACLE she manages to be an Ok character in the end where her main advantage is a stat that isn't used, isn't it?

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2012, 04:17:53 am »
Ikari:The thing is, her super fast attack was also INCREDIBLY inaccurate. She traded one thing for another.

Anyway, at Zil; your attacks have a flat accuracy as shown in their descriptions; assuming 100 is the base, and then they get +30, or -20, etc. Enemies, of course, have a flat evasion stat; they don't level up or anything.

Your OWN characters, on the other hand, gain evasion just like any other stat, and it continually goes up. That's okay at first, but eventually it starts getting... too high. There is no accuracy stat, so the enemies cannot get more accurate. That can only be done by outright giving them new, more accurate skills; and even then, that'd be impossible to do effectively in this kind of system while keeping evasion/accuracy not terribly broken in some fashion.
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qazmlpok

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2012, 04:35:06 am »
Well, whether or not Arcanum Knights has Eva I think would be a good indicator. However, I think if it does come back, it'd probably be in a manner that isn't how it was originally implemented in ThLaby; aka, the worst kind of scaling ever.

You can't give characters steady increases in EVA in a game where ACC is a flat, unchanging number! It would have been okay if EVA had been like a status resist kind of thing on your characters; however, in the end, the game is probably just best without it. The issue is a lot of attacks that were meant to be nice because of high accuracy became horrible. (Hi Sakuya's perfect-accuracy hit attack that's reallllly expensive for it's degree of power and her SP, hi Sanae's useless EVA debuff)

I've only played a tiny bit of AK, but it does have evasion. It isn't pure hit/miss though; you have misses, chips, criticals, etc. I have no idea how this plays out with leveling and high level monsters or anything, as I only did a few battles in the first area.

Someone could try looking at the LoT2 screenshots and see if they contain the kanji for evasion (or accuracy). If it's there, that should mean it'll be present.

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2012, 09:56:18 am »
Google translate gives 向上心 as ambition. Might just be like a boost to exp gain. No accuracy or evasion from the rest of the stuff visible.

From AK: 命中 - accuracy, 抵抗 - resistance, 器用 - weapon proficiency as I'm reading the kanji, 敏捷 - agility, but since there is already an AGI stat this may be evasion. Attack, defense, magic and mind are stock standard and the same as LoT.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 10:10:35 am by Pesco »

RegalStar

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2013, 05:48:07 am »
器用 is generally Dexterity.

Eilaris

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2013, 06:45:11 pm »
Ikari:The thing is, her super fast attack was also INCREDIBLY inaccurate. She traded one thing for another.

Anyway, at Zil; your attacks have a flat accuracy as shown in their descriptions; assuming 100 is the base, and then they get +30, or -20, etc. Enemies, of course, have a flat evasion stat; they don't level up or anything.

Your OWN characters, on the other hand, gain evasion just like any other stat, and it continually goes up. That's okay at first, but eventually it starts getting... too high. There is no accuracy stat, so the enemies cannot get more accurate. That can only be done by outright giving them new, more accurate skills; and even then, that'd be impossible to do effectively in this kind of system while keeping evasion/accuracy not terribly broken in some fashion.

I should probably play LoT 1.00 for giggles sometime.  Would I be right in guessing that typical expected levels for some lategame bosses end up being lower because you start evading everything? :P

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2013, 12:02:47 am »
I honestly don't know, there's not much precedent for anyone playing that version; in english, at least.

If you can even manage to FIND it, I'd love to hear about a playthrough on that.
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Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2013, 11:10:08 pm »
Eientei Trio, whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy...
Every time I kill Kaguya, Eirin IMMEDIATELY, and I mean IMMEDIATELY uses Astronomical Entombing.
And whoever thought the "try to keep Kaguya paralyzed so that she can be offed before she uses Buddha Stone Bowl" strategy worked apparently didn't look at her PAR stat. It's 24. 24. How am I expected to paralyze her? Damn that fight. No matter what Touhou RPG it is, the Eientei fight is always a bitch.
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Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2013, 11:16:29 pm »
Royal Flare spam gets their health going down roughly evenly (considering their max health), and killing them as close to the same time is fairly ideal. Killing Eirin first if Kaguya first is not working could be tried as well; in either case, you'd be able to start debuffing freely if you did.

Keep in mind she only Bhudda Bowls if there are more then three total debuffs; you can use some Icicle Fall to nerf speed on one or two of them meanwhile.
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Validon98

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2013, 11:53:48 pm »
Well, your advice came a little too late, Serela. I got them. About damn time, too...  :toot:
At least besides for going back for Tenshi, I'm done with that horrible fail-safe lock maze. Never again.
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Raikaria

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2013, 01:28:20 pm »
OK, well, I've finally getting this back on my laptop after the crash which wiped all of my files, includeing LoT, in the middle of a 3 man draft run of the game.

Is anyone up for a Draft Run of LoT, since I'd rather finish what I effectively started.

How does the Draft Work?

- Played on New Game +, so all characters can be *used* from the start [Some can't really due to SP, bear that in mind!]
- Since there are 40 characters in the game, each player will get 12 characters, totaling 36. The remaining 4 will be characters no-one can select, with one being an agreed ban between the players [2-1 majority] and then each player bans 1 character from the pool. The bans could be used to lock out something you don't think you'd get but someone else wants, or it could be used to lock out something you don't want under any circumstance!
- Order will be decided viva RNG.

- Order of picking is 1st -> 2nd -> 3rd -> 3rd -> 2nd -> 1st repeat. The bans are 1st -> 2nd -> 3rd, with the group ban being before anything else

Why is this fun? It's a challenge! You may get to use only certain characters you wish to use. You may be planning someone on your team, that someone snatches away, making you use new plans. You may have to use characters you've not given a chance before.

If two other people are interested, I can sort out a chatroom where we can do the draft.


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Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2013, 05:14:24 pm »
Buggrit reminding me that my draft run is still incomplete. I think I last left off at 13F.

Raikaria

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2013, 05:59:50 pm »
Buggrit reminding me that my draft run is still incomplete. I think I last left off at 13F.

Whoops. Didn't want to do that :3


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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2013, 11:09:34 pm »
The draft sounds interesting. Though if I did it, I would ban things to make everyone's lives more miserable.  :blush:

So what will keep track of this? Does it matter or is just something we say we do then just play and occasionally give an update?

Might take part if just to have something to play besides the stuff I record for Let's Plays. XD

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou 9F
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2013, 11:16:40 pm »
The draft sounds interesting. Though if I did it, I would ban things to make everyone's lives more miserable.  :blush:

So what will keep track of this? Does it matter or is just something we say we do then just play and occasionally give an update?

Might take part if just to have something to play besides the stuff I record for Let's Plays. XD

In the draft me, Pesco, and Para did, I believe the bans were Nitori, Meiling, Iku, and someone else. We basically just banned the OP stuff.

We play, give updates, and say what we find hard, what characters turn out good, and such and such.  It's a fun challenge, a change, and a reason to think up other tactics for taking out bosses with a character pool you usually wouldn't have, both in limitations and in abilities.

We can also look at things like gametime needed, levels required to clear, ect. Just to see which team turns out best. Of course, this is mostly just for fun, not an actual competition. The whole idea of the draft is to force people to use oddball teams and think of different tactics for certain encounters.

I believe I ended up with a lot of nukes, and DPS [I had things like Aya and some decent attackers] but few buffs [I had Sanae and Aya for buffs, as well as Remi/Tenshi's self buffs]

It's also interesting to see what characters people value.


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