Rewrite Mafia (Game Over - Town and Third Party Win)

[Serela]

I realized it only takes 6 votes to lynch on D1 for once, that Kay already had people on her, and had just gotten another vote before mine...

This post was very nearly "ROFL WHOOPS that's a hammer uhhhhhhhh >_>;;;; WELP."

But yeah Kay is at L-1.

[Validon98]

There's only one vote before the hammer drops? Huh. That escalated.

Validon:You being new is okay, but please stop going "Oh my god I'm new stop being mad at me!" every time someone posts :c Half of Page 8 of the game consists of this. Okay, if I was being literal, maybe one-third, but still. It's okay though, we forgive you

I was already going to, geez. And, I don't want to hear anything like:

Awh Validon is growing up.

=_=

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount

SilentShaman(5): BT, huh what, Bardiche, Validon98, Serela
Affinity(1): BigBangMeteor
BigBangMeteor(1): Affinity
Bardiche(1): SilentShaman
Shadoweh(1): Raikaria
huh what(1): Zakeri
Not voting (1): I have no name
With 11 votes in play it takes 6 to lynch.
There are ~23.5 hours remaining in the day.

[Shadoweh]

Shadowmeh, thoughts on the Kay wagon right now? not like you can vote her but lol
also what do you think of the less suspected players, like me, bard, bbm and hell, even zak. your thoughts seem kinda unmemorable this game, maybe it's because you have no vote.

I don't know her well enough to tell if it's good or not. 3/4 of those people you asked about are on her wagon, so I'm sure that can't be a coincidence. I think BBM sounds different then he did as Pride. I think you're town all the time anyways honestly that the future will tell with you, I'm not sure what to think of you. And I do think Bard is town right now. I think I said as much earlier. Even if he is a huge jerk. And Zak just got here so patent pending? I had a huge town read on him last game so I'm feeling cautious.

Serela considering what Validon said was about her stuff eons ago what changed to make you vote her now?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Kay's meta is to sparsely post quote walls. I don't actually have much of a handle on the difference between her play as town as scum; last time I was town in a game with her as mafia she was barely able to post for a majority of them. imo her actions here are just scummy regardless of meta.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

..."them" being the day phases, no idea how I botched that

[Serela]

Shadoweh:I was waiting to see if she'd respond properly to Bard, and also for my current vote at the time Affinity to catch up with the game.

After Affinity's Catch-up post and Kay's response to Bard I more or less haven't properly paid attention to the game until now. This is mostly because sleep -> work.

[SilentShaman]

I still like my vote being on Kay. She rests her vote on Bard and responds to questioning about it, but she doesn't really consider any further content of Bard's or attempt to push her case. It makes the vote look like it's just there so that we think she's Doing Stuff. Bard's recent post put it pretty nicely.

@Zak: I made the post blatantly charged on purpose in hopes of a more telling reaction. The theorized role could've belonged to town or scum imo.

@BT: Don't know what to tell you, aside from the voteblock reaction Raikaria generally gives me townvibes. Rather than worry about whether Shadoweh has some bastard restriction I'd rather just hear her state her take on the reactions to the voteblock.

Would probably vig Validon due to how much he's playing up excuses / confusion.

Because when I responded to that, his further content didn't change my read on him.

It was something about the whole Serela thing that should not matter at this point. The whole voteblocking debacle is over.

If someone does something that looks suspicious, it should be considered after whatever provoked it is over. If the intent of something seems scummy, that's not something that should be ignored or dismissed as being "over".

I don't know her well enough to tell if it's good or not. 3/4 of those people you asked about are on her wagon, so I'm sure that can't be a coincidence. I think BBM sounds different then he did as Pride.

Think about it, then, instead of just using meta.

Do you still have the same issue with him now? People are going to want an updated opinion out of you, along with whether you still think he's worse then Raikaria considering you keep bagging on him. What you think of Affinity is important too right now.
Wasn't this quote about him having a scumread on huh what though?

Not at this point, because he's been posting stuff not about the Serela wagon or my vote on him that looks reasonably townish. Affinity doesn't look good IMO.

"townish for now" doesn't sound like a scumread to me.

This is when you vote me. However, your previous post here does not mention me, despite being a good 20 minutes after I had posted, and thus my posts should have been clearly visible. Between that post and you voting me, I had not posted at all. Your vote had been on BigBangMeteor until you moved it.

What changed between those two posts that suddenly made it scummy, and why was it not scummy for other people to talk a lot about the voteblock thing?

My troubles with this line are twofold. One, you're assuming Serela was in danger of being lynched. (He wasn't.) Two, you're proposing Serela and I are scumbuddies. On Day 1. Just out of RVS.

Nothing changed. I was just rereading the thread, and hadn't paid attention to it or something before that.

I'm not suggesting you're scumbuddies. I was suggesting you're either scumbuddies or you were defending a townie you thought would be mislynched for towncred.

##Unvote
##Vote: Affinity

I'd rather lynch Raikaria but I'm a bit suspicious of Affinity anyway, and don't think anyone else would get lynched in this much time. So yeah, Not Me Over Me.

btw claiming nilla

[Affinity]

I expected Shaman to expand more on his side priorities rather than just act defensively without elaborating on his Bard vote (or his new vote on me).  Just to clarify, I thought the line of questioning against SS was valid, I was articulating why I did not really buy into the wagon (also Bardiche was a target unlikely to get lynched).

His recent posts have been a bit disappointing actually, and I don't see what that clumsy not me over me (without reasoning to convince ppl) should achieve if my vote would lynch him.  I still prefer the BBM vote as opposed to the SS vote, but well, I'm okay with either now given that SS's posts have sort of fit into everyone's suspicions.

===

@BBM: I'm not interested in what you are saying any more.  Get to the times please; you seem like you are fence-sitting on all the viable targets of the day actually.

@Shadoweh: As I said I wasn't against the SS vote in general, just that I felt that it was quite hollow Schezo's only relevant content to date.  Speaking of hollowness, you, Validon, Schezo, Serelai, seem to fit the bill this D1.  Maybe it's because of your lack of vote or sth.  You seem sort of detached from everything.

@Raikaria: Why so jumpy?  Why suddenly lash out at Shadoweh for, of all things, not answering a question instead of returning to your old suspicions.  For all your words, you still seem like you are merely going in and out of the flow with the appropriate reasoning without true backing.

##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria

[Bardiche]

Something rubs me wrong about Affinity's post there.

I'm okay with either now given that SS's posts have sort of fit into everyone's suspicions.

What's this even supposed to mean? I can only read it in one way but I'd like Affinity to explain.

Also a bit weird he on one hand says he can agree to an SS vote, but then votes the one SS says she rather wants to lynch (and then she delves into a pointless Not Me Over Me thing when there's more than enough time to swing a wagon onto someone). If you think he's scum you wouldn't vote with him, right?

I'm keeping my vote on Shaman despite that as she's trying to get off easy here with "the content read scummy" and not elaborating. I've pointed out why I take issue with it: Accusing me of only talking about Serela and the attack on him when it was the only thing at the time that happened is absurd, and there were others who also predominantly talked about Serela at the time. Just what is it that made me unique from them in a scummy way?

I'm not suggesting you're scumbuddies. I was suggesting you're either scumbuddies or you were defending a townie you thought would be mislynched for towncred.

So you're suggesting we're scum buddies. OR that a Townie would get mislynched based on RVS shenanigans. I already highlighted both these possibilities and they are both ridiculous assumptions to make during early Day 1, because NO ONE gets lynched in RVS, Huh What's reasoning was ridiculous and making scumpairs on Day 1 is doubly ridiculous. This line of reasoning only stands if Serela was in actual danger of getting lynched.

[BigBangMeteor]

Affinity- gj brushing me off without actually responding to what I'm saying at all. That was possibly the scummiest thing you've done to date. You also completely misrepresent my stance on other players. I said clearly that I thought that both Kay and Rai were still scummy, just that I thought you were worse. And then I explained why I thought my vote was better used on you rather than those two. I am in no way fence sitting. You also tell me to "get with the times". Earlier you said I was only commenting on recent stuff. So am I with the times or not? And why are you unvoting me? You don't seem to indicate any lessening of your suspicion of me. You say you're okay with lynching either me or Kay... and then you go on to vote Raikaria. Your vote is even more suspect because you're telling me to talk about today's viable targets while you vote for somebody who at the time had no votes for them.

I'm still up for lynching Rai, but not Kay so much anymore because I don't think that scum claim Vanilla unless they don't think there's much of a chance they're going to get lynched, which is clearly not the case here. Scum want to incite some sense of panic with the thought that town may be mislynching a PR- a lot of people feel safer lynching a Vanilla claim just on grounds of it being Vanilla.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Scum can claim VT if they think a wagon on them will dissipate later, and when they do, it's usually a while before deadline (from my experience).
Also, outing a counterclaim D1 isn't worth it in a 2-man scumteam, which I'm still 99% sure we have.

That said I need to reconsider Affinity and Raikaria anyway. Will do so tomorrow.

[BigBangMeteor]

I also think that Shadoweh seems to be coasting on the fact that she's been voteblocked. Additionally, considering that voteblocking someone D1 doesn't really accomplish much at all, I wouldn't be surprised if the mafia took a chance to give one of their buddies towncred by targeting them with such a scummy ability.

[BigBangMeteor]

If your theory of two two-man scumteams and a third is correct, you're talking about 7/2/2/1 which is dumb and imbalanced (IMO) when we know that Vanillas exist.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

what the fuck I never said anything about multiple scumteams or an itp, only 2 scum with a day voteblock

[BigBangMeteor]

I am like 95% sure you mentioned two scumteams and a third

[BigBangMeteor]

Worth noting: I'm inclined to think this game only has 2 mafias, since it's 12p + a voteblock. Probably with a third party too because :roles:.
Why is Affinity a better vote than both of these people?

If NNR doesn't have a better post by the end of the (RL) day explaining what's wrong with Shadoweh's reactions then he's vigbait.

BT, what do you think about how Raikaria treats the theories about Serela being the voteblocker? It's the main reason I'm reading him as town. At the very least, he's not the voteblocker.

Validon: Schezo's "real maflord" line is rhetoric, not really related to intent. What do you think about the actual reasoning behind his case, and what do you think about the wagon on Affinity?

Okay, I mistook "two mafias" to mean two scumteams when upon looking more closely at the exact wording, you just meant that the one team had only two members. You did still mention a third though.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

oh, right

w/e 9 vs 3 with a voteblock makes it ridiculously hard for town to lynch scum if they don't bus

[BT]

Deathly low on time today. Shaman's post doesn't change much imo and I have to agree with what people are saying on Affinity's latest posts. This is where I'd usually differentiate between Rai/Shaman/Affinity but, uh, welp.

[Shadoweh]

Also a bit weird he on one hand says he can agree to an SS vote, but then votes the one SS says she rather wants to lynch (and then she delves into a pointless Not Me Over Me thing when there's more than enough time to swing a wagon onto someone).

I'm not sure this is true for people who aren't familiar with our deadline antics. However, look at how the votes are spread right now and you can see why SS would push for a wagon, ANY wagon besides them.  I don't disagree with your vote since this isn't why you're staying on her though. I do think the wagon spread right now is.. unhealthy. I think SS should just vote Raikaria and make a better case on him if they think they can.

I also think that Shadoweh seems to be coasting on the fact that she's been voteblocked. Additionally, considering that voteblocking someone D1 doesn't really accomplish much at all, I wouldn't be surprised if the mafia took a chance to give one of their buddies towncred by targeting them with such a scummy ability.

It's really funny you accuse me of this because I had a conversation with Kilga about it after Pride's flip, about how scum sometimes suggest doing that but never go through with it due to pansiness. It makes me wish I had done it to myself for townie cred. I don't think as scum I would do something wonky again after how much that screwed my team last time. >_>

If I seem detached it's because I am detached, the day doesn't need my input at all to proceed, and I don't have a solid scumread to pursue, nor a townread on the two current wagons that I'd defend to the death. I am collecting a pretty vase of townreads on BBM, Bard, Validon and BT.  I was going to read up on Serela but I got sucked into reading about some nutrition drink made of people.

Scum can claim VT if they think a wagon on them will dissipate later, and when they do, it's usually a while before deadline (from my experience).Also, outing a counterclaim D1 isn't worth it in a 2-man scumteam, which I'm still 99% sure we have.

Does it really seem like the wagon is about to dissipate though? There's literally no counterwagon. I guess this is awhile for our last minute standards. Does SS usually claim VT?

[Shadoweh]

So you're suggesting we're scum buddies. OR that a Townie would get mislynched based on RVS shenanigans. I already highlighted both these possibilities and they are both ridiculous assumptions to make during early Day 1, because NO ONE gets lynched in RVS, Huh What's reasoning was ridiculous and making scumpairs on Day 1 is doubly ridiculous. This line of reasoning only stands if Serela was in actual danger of getting lynched.

He doesn't have to be in danger of being lynched for you to defend him though, I think that's an unfair thing to say. She's just suggesting you were buddying up to Serela. (I think it's ridiculous because I would NEVER DEFEND SCUMBUDDY SERELA AGAIN but still.)

Think about it, then, instead of just using meta.

Without using meta your posts come off as if trying to do too much and not having enough substance on one subject to dig into. We don't need your answer to every single thing, we just need to know what's important to you and why it's important, in preferably paragraph form. I can't tell whether you're scum or if it's just your writing style that comes off as disjointed.

[BigBangMeteor]

We didn't go through with the self-silence in the last game because the Janitor and Rolecop were more important as far as gathering info went, and then on N3 and N4, doing it would have meant forgoing a NK. I'm also unfamiliar with your last time as scum so I don't know how that'd be likely to affect your thought process on something like that.

To the best of my recollection, I can't ever remember Kay claiming VT as scum in a closed setup. I also can't remember her ever actually being a VT either (except in an all-vanilla game, which doesn't count), so idk what to say about that.

[Raikaria]

@Raikaria: Why so jumpy?  Why suddenly lash out at Shadoweh for, of all things, not answering a question instead of returning to your old suspicions.  For all your words, you still seem like you are merely going in and out of the flow with the appropriate reasoning without true backing.

##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria

My old suspicions were no longer relevant. Why would I return to an irrelevant vote?

Last I checked evasion of a pretty important question is a pretty scummy thing. Shadoweh is also, as mentioned recently, sort of coasting with minimal input [By Shadoweh standards] because of this voteblock.

I've not really agreed or understood the reasoning for the BBM or SS wagons that much either, so I wasn't jumping on them. Again, why would I vote for people for which I don't see anything that looks particularly scummy?

How can you accuse me of 'going with the flow?'. Last time I checked there had to be a flow to go with. I see no flow towards Shadoweh.

Also note Shadoweh is still evading the question, even after I've voted for her. How hard is it to say 'Yes the voteblock is self imposed?' or 'No, it's not?' The longer Shadoweh evades this, the more likely it seems like she knows something about the voteblock that she does not want to share with us. And since a voteblock is usually a pretty scum-controlled thing... I think my vote is justified after 2 or 3 IRL days of Shadoweh refusing to answer this simple, yet important, question.

In fact to be honest after a period of hesitation and evasion this long, I probobly wouldn't trust what Shadoweh says if she answers anyway. It's just all the evadeing looks really, really scummy when you add in 'She may know something she dosen't want town to know, which is why she's evadeing'.

So... do you still think I'm lashing out at Shadoweh for no reason? Is this vote worth voting BBM or SS both of whom you express feeling of being scum as well?

===

@ Silent Shaman VT claim stuff:
Except it's D1. The mafia have no clue what power roles are in the game. They could very easily claim something that gets counter-claimed, which will usually ensure their lynch. [As they were the half already thought as scum]

===

@BBM: I'm not interested in what you are saying any more.  Get to the times please; you seem like you are fence-sitting on all the viable targets of the day actually.

This is bad too, saying you're not reading what people are saying. Last I checked, you were still a wagon with reasons to lynch [Especially after your most recent post]. If BBM feels you are still the best lynch, how about you don't accuse him of fence-sitting. Especially when getting off that 'fence' onto the only person with more than 1 vote would be a hammer.

Or were you attempting to convince BBM to hammer SS without you having to?

Because at that point, you were just as 'viable' a lynch with 1 vote as 4 other people. The only more 'viable' lynch was a hammer.

The only thing that line looks like is an attempt to bully BBM into hammering someone, without you looking responsible for the flip [As you would not be voting him].

I think that's worse than Shadoweh's evasion.

##Unvote
##Vote: Affinity

[Raikaria]

Note the Votals at the time of Affinity's Post:


SilentShaman(5): BT, huh what, Bardiche, Validon98, Serela
Affinity(2): BigBangMeteor,  SilentShaman
BigBangMeteor(1): Affinity
Shadoweh(1): Raikaria
huh what(1): Zakeri

My error. No-one's as viable as Affinity at that point, I forgot Silent's vote. Still, if anything that makes my point even stronger. If Affinity isn't a viable vote, who is? Only Shaman, who's at L-1.

[Shadoweh]

We didn't go through with the self-silence in the last game because the Janitor and Roleclop were more important as far as gathering info went, and then on N3 and N4, doing it would have meant forgoing a NK. I'm also unfamiliar with your last time as scum so I don't know how that'd be likely to affect your thought process on something like that.

Read all about it here! tl;dr Shadoweh+Serela+Zakeri scum, we poisoned someone to set up a vigilante claim for Serela, he got lynched Day 2 before the 'extra vigilante kill' could happen, which was on a doctored target in the first place and never would have happened. Also the actual vig shot me. :< Also see: Edible's signature. I was also actually in a game where we had a voteblocker and considered using it on ourselves here (Anonygame so none of the names will match unfortunately). We chickened out. :V

I'm sure I can find more games to wordvomit on you if I try hard enough.

To the best of my recollection, I can't ever remember Kay claiming VT as scum in a closed setup. I also can't remember her ever actually being a VT either (except in an all-vanilla game, which doesn't count), so idk what to say about that.

So don't you think it's weird that if she's scum she plopped down a completely unexcited 'nilla claim? This game likely has at least one token VT or three.

..Rairai, I doubt Affinity was telling BBM to hammer SilentShaman. You're literally saying that it's scummy of Affinity to tell someone voting him to consider targets other then him. Of course he's going to want his voters to consider other people.

[Raikaria]

..Rairai, I doubt Affinity was telling BBM to hammer SilentShaman. You're literally saying that it's scummy of Affinity to tell someone voting him to consider targets other then him. Of course he's going to want his voters to consider other people.

He says:

@BBM: I'm not interested in what you are saying any more.  Get to the times please; you seem like you are fence-sitting on all the viable targets of the day actually.

At that point the only target more 'viable' than Affinity, who BBM was voting, was Shaman. Therefor the only vote more 'viable' than Affinity's was one that was a hammer.

If that isn't saying 'Vote Shaman', I'm not sure what it's saying.

[Raikaria]

Let's not get onto the hypocritical nature of that too. He tells BBM to stop fence-sitting on all of the 'viable' targets, then proceeds to vote me, who had 0 votes. I wasn't exactly a 'viable' target for lynching either.

[Affinity]

@Everyone

To everyone angry at me for not responding to the debate on my reasoning for voting Schezo semi-RVS phase, raise your hands and ask your questions.  I've said all I have wanted to say regarding that issue and it'll just weigh the game down.  Saying that it is scummy without considering the datedness of it is kinda sad.  Arguing  about it till the end of the game doesn't strike me as nice.  Rai I'm looking at you, since you seem to be pointing out things without context.  I thought you switched votes because you agreed with my explanation.

If viable targets means people who are L-3 and above than haha to anyone who thinks that.  If you are basing cries of hypocrisy on a single word then you're probably doing it wrong.  Rai and SS were all viable targets throughout the day (as in questionable and with reasons to vote), but BBM merely brushed them off.  Would like BBM to answer this post anyways.

And talking about targets =/= voting for them, and fence-sitting =/= not voting for them.  Why, oh why, Rai, are you thinking these as such.  I said in and out with the flow not just in why are you attacking me for miscomprehension.

In fact, if people have issues on my vote, then where would you want me to put it?  On SS, resulting in a hammer?  Why is changing my vote from BBM to Rai so awkward when I have given my reasons for doing so?

[Affinity]

What's this even supposed to mean? I can only read it in one way but I'd like Affinity to explain.

Uhh, in general my initial impression of SS was not correct as he posted more and more, and they fitted more into what people had originally suspected of him.  Thus I'm okay with lynching him now.

Also a bit weird he on one hand says he can agree to an SS vote, but then votes the one SS says she rather wants to lynch (and then she delves into a pointless Not Me Over Me thing when there's more than enough time to swing a wagon onto someone). If you think he's scum you wouldn't vote with him, right?

And SS hasn't voted Raikaria.  Saying that you would really like to vote him and him actually doing it are two different things; the first is possible by scum. 

It's pointless to do a not me over me without reasoning, because if I were to do just that he would be lynched by now, wouldn't he?

In general I think Rai's jumps throughout the game are too haphazard and incoherent.  Votes BT (reactionary) -> huhwhat (votepark on Schezo) -> Affinity (content not good) -> Shadoweh (never answered a question) -> Affinity ('bullying').  Let's just say I don't get the transitions from one vote to another (e.g why did he unvote me?), though he might have given his explanations.  And his idea of me bullying people into hammering is really funny; seriously, who does that?

[Affinity]

@BBM:

Oh I see your response, my apologies.  But by just pointing out various things that you find scummy without considering the full picture (as you do with Rai), it seems like mere nitpicking actually.  I don't even know what your secondary lynch on Rai is founded on now actually; surely not his listing or his vote on BT, which were ages ago.

If you really want your answer then I thought Schezo's reason for voting Serela was the vote-block thing in the first place as his RVS reason.  But that's so boring to talk about.