Rewrite Mafia (Game Over - Town and Third Party Win)

[BigBangMeteor]

Random vote stage was at the veeery beginning when people were voting Serela for being the reason behind the town's loss last game. We're no longer in RVS, so if you think our votes still seem random, then something's wrong.

I wouldn't have a problem if Affinity had admitted that his reasoning at the time was flimsy- him going and giving it a reason that simply didn't apply at the time (or at least, could have been applied to a bunch of people) is what is scummy.

[NekoNekoRex]

actually, yeah, I am going to need to drop out until I can get a hang of this schedule. When I can get online, I tend to be half asleep.

[Affinity]

Boy, I can't blame anyone.  This D1 isn't easy at all.

Main issues: On SilentShaman, I'm not too keen on the reasons for voting him.  Yes, his Bardiche vote was rather hasty and provocative compared to his other alternatives, but as scum he could have easily selected those other people instead.  Whether these suspicions amount to anything remains to be seen, but yeah.  People like Schezo need to give something a bit more I think.

Raikaria is being too verbose and spread-out for me to like him despite his thought processes and votes showing through.  I'm not even sure if I get his change from huhwhat to me, on the basis that 'now at least I know that your vote on Schezo was random', whatever that means, given that he voted huhwhat for the voteswitch in the first place.  Could Rai explain this?   But verbosity is usually a town-tell perhaps.  His italics are really bleh.

BBM is being quite one-dimensional in his vote for me, he does state things on other people but these have little flow.  For example, in his assessment of Rai, he does not consider his sizeable tirades against BT and huhwhat, only noting that his vote against me as based on meta (which is incorrect), and that his list was reportery (easily attackable).  This strikes me as a bit superficial and fluffy, trying to appear current (blurbs on huhwhat, Kay) while maintaining a vote on me.  He doesn't even continue the line of questioning with regards to him despite Rai's reply, diverting into saying AtE is bad.

##Unvote
##Vote: BigBangMeteor

While his initial callout against me is good enough, I'm disheartened by his reaction to my defence.  Schezo voted Serela for the disappearing vote semi-RVSly.  He then seems to acknowledge that the voteblock has no bearing on his alignment.  So where did the reasoning in his vote go?  A votepark is not a time-based thing, it's based on a disappearance of current reasons to vote someone.  Also, saying that you would have accepted if I admitted my reasoning is flimsy is odd; problems don't go away like that.

Lastly, there's Shadoweh and Validon, who are probably going to be wildcards today anyway. 

[Serela]

actually, yeah, I am going to need to drop out until I can get a hang of this schedule. When I can get online, I tend to be half asleep.

HELLO FUTURE ZAKERI :D

[NekoNekoRex]

It's my first week of school in three years, and two of the days force me to take four thirty-minute bus rides between the city and town.
Plus getting a handle on school work isn't going to be easy.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Waffling on Prims- I still think he's trying too hard and jumping around a lot, but I think it's more town-motivated because IIRC he was down a few days ago about how his recent games haven't been that good. He might be trying to overcompensate? He's also had some good points I think, so townish for now.

What does posting this paragraph accomplish at all?

nnr is dum

[Shadoweh]

Worth noting: I'm inclined to think this game only has 2 mafias, since it's 12p + a voteblock. Probably with a third party too because :roles:.

It's probably still 3 mafia. I agree about Raikaria's  reaction seeming genuine. I think it's kind of weird actually for you to throw out this opinion since voteblocks on MOTK have never been allowed to be used in LYLO so they don't really affect the layout.

On Curse of the Youmu Avatars, I have to admit I don't see Bardiche's activity as defending Serela. I agree with the logic he's presenting, also I don't think scum!Bardiche could joyously shout GUT! I still liked SilentShaman's posts, but I don't see pressing for more to be bad. You two seem to know her better, what's she normally like?

I know Neko is subbing out (and actually have symphathy for the draining effects of two hours on the bus), but Huh what considering some of his scum posts are you sure he wouldn't post a random attack on me if he thought it looked good?

I'm trying to think of a reason I dislike Affinity's L-1 reply beyond 'feels fake'. He does tend to sound depressed if he's suspected, I just don't see it as genuine.

Main issues: On SilentShaman, I'm not too keen on the reasons for voting him.  Yes, his Bardiche vote was rather hasty and provocative compared to his other alternatives, but as scum he could have easily selected those other people instead.  Whether these suspicions amount to anything remains to be seen, but yeah.  People like Schezo need to give something a bit more I think.

I don't think anyone has issues with it being a provocative vote, more that SS voted someone they had less reasoning to vote, for a reason that doesn't quite jibe with what was happening. Also, if you think Schezo needs to give something a bit more, why stop attacking him? I mean, you even have this to say about him:

While his initial callout against me is good enough, I'm disheartened by his reaction to my defence.  Schezo voted Serela for the disappearing vote semi-RVSly.  He then seems to acknowledge that the voteblock has no bearing on his alignment.  So where did the reasoning in his vote go?  A votepark is not a time-based thing, it's based on a disappearance of current reasons to vote someone.  Also, saying that you would have accepted if I admitted my reasoning is flimsy is odd; problems don't go away like that.

Admittedly I wouldn't want to try and push a case on the logic that reasoning for a semi-RVS vote disappeared either. But it sounds like you don't like his current vote either, especially since you disagree that SS is scummy.

Lastly, there's Shadoweh and Validon, who are probably going to be wildcards today anyway.

also what does this even mean? :V I can't be a wildcard, I have no vote to go crazy with!

[SilentShaman]

Is asked by BT to give reads.

Everyone else moans about it. I find it amusing that people are complaining about me fulfilling someone's request. [And I get the feeling of Deja Vu too, people vote me, ask me to explain/do something, and then others jump on me for doing it]

Bad argument. If you're told to be active, and post scummy stuff, people complain about it, because you fulfilled their request in a scummy way. If you're told to give reads, and give a lot of null reads, it's the same kind of thing.

Shaman, response to Bard's reaction?

It's not bad, but... well, maybe that was the reason he did it, maybe not.

Also, my issue with Bardiche wasn't that he complained about the Serela wagon, It was how much of his content was just about that. Possible scum intent being either to look good for defending a mislynched townie, or to try to save a scumbuddy.

What does posting this paragraph accomplish at all?

nnr is dum

I assume it is because he was suspicious of you before, and he's explaining his change of opinion so that people don't bug him later about what happened to his scumread on Huhwhat.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount

Affinity(4): BigBangMeteor, Serela, Raikaria, Validon98
SilentShaman(3): Schezo, BT, huh what
BigBangMeteor(1): Affinity
Bardiche(1): SilentShaman
Shadoweh(1): NekoNekoRex
Not voting (1): Bardiche
With 11 votes in play it takes 6 to lynch.
There are ~42 hours remaining in the day.

NekoNekoRex needs to be replaced! Here's your chance to join if you missed it earlier!
If no suitable replacement is found by the end of the day, the slot will be modkilled.

[Shadoweh]

It's not bad, but... well, maybe that was the reason he did it, maybe not.

Also, my issue with Bardiche wasn't that he complained about the Serela wagon, It was how much of his content was just about that. Possible scum intent being either to look good for defending a mislynched townie, or to try to save a scumbuddy.

Do you still have the same issue with him now? People are going to want an updated opinion out of you, along with whether you still think he's worse then Raikaria considering you keep bagging on him. What you think of Affinity is important too right now.

I assume it is because he was suspicious of you before, and he's explaining his change of opinion so that people don't bug him later about what happened to his scumread on Huhwhat.

Wasn't this quote about him having a scumread on huh what though?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Zakeri replaces NekoNekoRex effective immediately.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Schezo needs to be replaced too! Aren't you lucky? Another chance to join Rewrite Mafia!

[Schezo]

I'm really sorry everyone.

[Raikaria]

Raikaria is being too verbose and spread-out for me to like him despite his thought processes and votes showing through.  I'm not even sure if I get his change from huhwhat to me, on the basis that 'now at least I know that your vote on Schezo was random', whatever that means, given that he voted huhwhat for the voteswitch in the first place.  Could Rai explain this?   But verbosity is usually a town-tell perhaps.  His italics are really bleh.

Basically my mind got tied up too much in ~*MotKTown Meta*~ where the active during D1 are pretty much always town and the inactive lurkers are usually the scums.

HuhWhat just put his vote on Schezo for the sake of putting his vote somewhere because he didn't like the Serela vote anymore. I never said I agreed with him putting his vote on someone in a way that put him at halfway to being lynched, however. Also I thought stressing points in italics would help. Evidently not.

And Affinity, the meta argument isn't exactly incorrect. Look at DEFCON mafia and the postgame for it in particular. I think GHW was similar but not as bad.

I'm trying to think of a reason I dislike Affinity's L-1 reply beyond 'feels fake'. He does tend to sound depressed if he's suspected, I just don't see it as genuine.

That's called gut Shadowmeh.

And when are you gonna give a straight answer to a somewhat important question Bard asked you, and then asked you to give a streight answer to? [And Then I backed up the call] I've posted the quotes asking you this more than enough in other posts, calling for you to answer in a way people can actually understand.

It's kind of an important question. Evading it and ignoring calls to give a straight answer isn't cool, and makes me suspicious that your voteblock is self-imposed as part of your role, or maybe even a gambit, and the former we really should know. It helps us know if this is scum-controlled or self-imposed. The longer you evade the question the worse it looks, to the point I feel I should poke you for it now.

##Unvote
## Vote: Shadoweh

Not quite following what's so bad about BBM or Shaman in general, except Shaman voting Bard for 'defending' Serela from a silly wagon.

[Bardiche]

Affinity pleasures me.

##Unvote

SilentShaman, I do have some problems with your continued attack over an early game point by now. We have seven pages and a lot of things have happened, clinging to Serela from ages ago is absurd. To start with, at the time I posted the only thing that had happened were the Voteblock accusations and RVS. I abhor RVS and given a chance not to participate in it, will not participate in it. What's more curious than blaming me for talking about a current event is the timing of you doing it.

This is when you vote me. However, your previous post here does not mention me, despite being a good 20 minutes after I had posted, and thus my posts should have been clearly visible. Between that post and you voting me, I had not posted at all. Your vote had been on BigBangMeteor until you moved it.

What changed between those two posts that suddenly made it scummy, and why was it not scummy for other people to talk a lot about the voteblock thing?

Possible scum intent being either to look good for defending a mislynched townie, or to try to save a scumbuddy.

My troubles with this line are twofold. One, you're assuming Serela was in danger of being lynched. (He wasn't.) Two, you're proposing Serela and I are scumbuddies. On Day 1. Just out of RVS.

##Vote: SilentShaman

Sticking to this absurd Early Day 1 case with no further involvement in the game and blatantly ignoring the recent proceedings has all the makings of scum trying to park their vote somewhere and lurk actively throughout the day.

[Bardiche]

FWIW, even if I try to look at you as town, I can't consider it townie to stick to a case multiple people have said they were not convinced by and which you have not taken the time to update by analysing my latest content and finding anything to contend with them. If you truly thought I was scum and cared about it, and are a Good Townie^TM, I think it'd have been reasonable you would've done at least that much.

[WHMZakeri]

Affinity pleasures me.

Context~

Serela, why do you have a scum role?

Something so blantantly charged, based on information nobody had (and still doesn't exist), and attempts to put ideas about how roles work into the town's minds to potentially mislead them.
The way HW acted was more in line with a scum minded voteblock than anything else it could have been.

SilentShamen's case is bad, and it looks bad that he's being lazy with it, but I'm not fully convinced. Will probably switch if he keeps getting lazy.

Don't see the case on Schezo, Looks Like Affinity is dying down now that he's had the chance to explain (I probably would have been on the wrong side if I had been this invested before his post, so I'll let the wagon off.)

I like Shadoweh, I think he's pretty cool~ :V

Why the appeal to emotion? There's also a difference between giving scumreads and giving nullreads. I'm also not really familiar with MotK mafia meta, but if you let scumhunting devolve into lynch all lurkers, then all scum would have to do to win is post frequently. I'd argue more that it's just that people who are normally lurky are rolling mafia more than people who're generally active.

This wouldn't actually be a bad thing compared to how it is now.

[WHMZakeri]

Super Pro Tip: Always forget to vote
##Vote: Huh What

[BigBangMeteor]

First off, apologies. Having some internet issues that should hopefully be resolved soon. My activity might be spotty until then.

@Affinity- I would have accepted you saying your vote was flimsy because that was the time of the game. You making it out to be something greater than what it was is what is scummy. How does the voteblock being a nulltell cause the RVS vote reason to disappear? To him, it was just something that didn't matter or affect his vote in either direction.

As for your vote on me, not everything someone does has to be scummy. I'm going to point out the stuff I see as suspicious, not dredge up the stuff that doesn't affect my opinion of that player much in either way.

Prims- earlier I said you were slightly suspicious, and then I changed my opinion on you with more or less the same type of posts that I'd thought were weird earlier. I thought it was worth saying.

I still find Kay scummy, but I don't like Affinity's defence or offence and people seem to have dropped off Affinity for lame reasons IMO.

[Bardiche]

Context~

PLEASES. I MEANT PLEASES. AAAAH

[BT]

I would have dropped off at this point as well if not for the existing drop-off. Such is life when you're at the busiest time of the year and it takes you a few days before d-day to fully realize that fact's implications.

AKA activity will be minimal, will not have time to read things, will skim through things that have happened in a bit.

[BT]

I'm happy enough with Shadoweh to go with my first role theory about her being a self-imposed voteblock who can't (or shouldn't) talk about it. bastardly elements inc.

If that's the case then I dropped Rai for nothing but, uh, yeah. Rai, your voting Shadoweh for this seems like another one of those 'weird first, scummy later' things that made me vote you originally. I mean, saying that her ignoring the question necessarily equals scummy when the option of self-imposed + bastard has been mentioned already, seems like a votepark here. huhwhat, Shadoweh, since I (now) officially have no time for this, can you help me figure this out? Rai's response to the voteblock doesn't scream -town- to me if it's not a scum utility and so far he's been mediocre. (huhwhat is also a townread - originated from that post that asked me to reconsider Rai)

I'm liking Bard's Shaman vote and I feel confortable leaving my vote there at the moment.

If I had more time it'd be dedicated to reading a bit into Affinity vs BBM. Didn't really parse the latter's response all that well.

Zak's case would have been good for post-RVS but not for this stage and there's no sign of him looking at the rest of the happenings / huhwhat's other posts. Entrance Bad.

BBM, do you have some beef with the people that dropped Affinity? The reasons for dropping are lame why? (the wagon in the first place was weak & lame (W&L) so... yeah)

PLEASES. I MEANT PLEASES. AAAAH

Cute.

[BT]

...If this is minimal activity then the rest of you slackers don't have an excuse for the rest of the day. :V Things slowed down a bit.

[Validon98]

I've been silent because at this point, I can't gleam anything from the conversations. People are switching votes left and right and instead of seeing any of it as scummy, I just see it as a bunch of confusion. That combined with the fact that I'm not on for a few hours everyday leads to sudden bunches of conversation I have to pick through. I've lost the flow of the conversation, I don't know what the hell is going on anymore, and at this point I'm just not going to change my vote because I've lost track of everything. I'd need like a flowchart or something before I can figure things out. And it's not because I'm new to this, it's just that I can't pin anything down necessarily as scummy.

[Validon98]

Also, I'd like to know why the hell you thought the wagon was weak, BT.

[BT]

I wouldn't go out of my way to say it was "weak" but that's certainly how I feel about it in the general sense. Most of the voters were on it for minimal reasons (to be fair it was hard to find something solid at the time, but that doesn't change the fact) and it was based on one ill-elaborated post.

Why the hostility? What do you think of that wagon?

[BT]

Oh right, you're voting Affinity.

The problem is I don't know who is scum and the conversation isn't really giving me any clues. At this point, it's probably better just to jump on the bandwagon, not ask questions, and pray we didn't hit a townie, because you guys seem to be metagaming a bit and I'm unfamilar with everyone, so guess who has the least clue about everyone?
##Unvote
##Vote: Affinity

But there's none of your opinion here. We're like a rl day later.

[BT]

And I forgot to actually reply to your first post.

You don't have to force yourself to find scummy things in everything. You're looking at the game wrong if you're town - I'd tell you to think about what scum would do in this situation but you have z->0 experience soooo just have a wide array of opinions on the current wagons imo, so we can get an idea of your own alignment. What do you think of the Shaman wagon, for example?

[Validon98]

I personally did not want to jump on it at first because I felt it would just seem like I was jumping on without adding much. At this point, I don't even know if I should be on it anymore. I should really just go through and reread everything in the thread, but I honestly don't want to. Of course, by not rereading it, I won't understand everyone's reasons for who they are voting for (they all mention certain posts about how they act, but that doesn't clarify a whole lot for me because I don't remember every post).
I'm not trying to be hostile either, I just wanted a little bit of clarification. I have absolutely no idea what's going on right now, so I'm not really being hostile towards anyone. I'd probably be able to better contribute if I actually understood what the hell was going on.

[Validon98]

Also, about the Shaman wagon, I don't know either. I'm lacking the context which everyone is voting him on for.