Koakuma's Writer's Parlour ~ Have some tea and discuss fiction and writing here!

[Fenrir the Dusk]

Interesting advice, Roukanken, I'll have to remember those things, and, the biggest concern with this OC is making it so she isn't to much of a Mary Sue, I've fixed some things, but there's probably a few things that are still questionable. Should probably get to reading a few OC Fics, learn a thing or two, or something.

[Iced Fairy]

Hm... Suggestions for OCs...  Normally I use OCs to fill in side characters.

Well there's hunting through TV tropes and finding out what not to do.  They've got quite the section on Mary Sues.  As for more specific OC flaws...

Firstly always make sure your OC fits in the universe.  It's far too easy to get caught up in your characters plot, and not use the rest of the cast as anything except pieces in that plot.  You have to make sure the original Touhou characters rate more then backdrop pieces (unless you're doing something on a totally different level).

Secondly have a good grasp on any character you write.  If you write a bad Alice and place your character in the same set, it's going to make your character look like a Mary Sue or bad character even if that wasn't your intent.

Thirdly, try try try your best to never have your OC be the last best hope for X.  Gensoukyo is filled with people that make Superman cry.  If you are going to have your OC incident solving have a damn good reason why no one else is doing it.  And never ever ever have your OC "fix" canon.  That always sits poorly.

[Esifex]

Those are all basic guidelines, tips and hints I'm well aware of. What I was actually asking was for someone to let me know how well I was adhering to them.

[Iced Fairy]

Ah sorry.  That was just in general to the thread.  As for your not self OC I think you're doing well.  The only story quirk on full review is something that's unconnected and might be resolved later.

Setting your character up as the villain, though a sentimental one, is something that usually bypasses a lot of the OC incidents.  So long as you write the story passibly well in the first place.

[Landon]

For the last few weeks months, I've been wondering what would happen if I somehow ended up in Gensokyo: who I would like to meet, what I would do, who I would miss from home, anything that would set me aside from a normal villager, ect. If I wrote a fanfiction of what would happen, I probably wouldn't post it though, as much of my past I'd like to keep a secret (I have an unusual past). I didn't expect there to be so much to be considered for this type of writing.......

While we're grading and debating this sort of thing, could I get a little feedback on my self-insert OC MotK origin story? I'm not just trying to say 'this is how Esifex came to be in MotK, nurhur', I'm also shooting for a worthwhile and well-written story. I'm trying to avoid being the Black Hole, but considering the sort of things that're going on in the story, do you all think the direction its going is good? Not like, plot-wise, but actually literary quality-wise? I have still been working on it and adding to it, despite the lack of a recent update, but I'm also getting a bit nervous about it and am craving feedback. It's like a drug to me :v

I really have been enjoying it so far, but I have a serious lack of comment posting courage. The literary quality is really good (or perhaps I might like it to much to find any flaws :3).

[Ayuka]

So I was at Barnes & Noble today waiting for my sister to get out of freshman orientation and I came across the writing/publishing section and found a book called 'the 10 rules of novel writing'. It was all pretty interesting, but there were a couple that made me curios. 'Never use any verb other than 'said' to describe someone talking' and 'never use an adverb to describe someone's talking' (paraphrased, of course). When I thought about it, using verbs other than said does feel kind of silly sometimes, but using the 'said' anytime anyone talks also seems kind of awkward to me. So I was wondering, what do you all do when it comes to characters saying things and what are your reasons for it? Said only? Verbs to fit the circumstance? Omit them completely? I crave to know! O.O

[Unassuming Squid]

It depends.

I'll use said on occasion, or I'll do some other verb if it fits, like shouted, hacked, mumbled, croaked, etc. I'll usually avoid using anything at all if the speaker is implied, however, since it gets annoying to have to read adverbs after each line of dialogue over and over again on a long conversation.

Really, I have to say that that's a horrible rule. It goes for the single most uninteresting and blandest word possible and says ONLY USE THIS NEVER USE ANYTHING ELSE. Makes me wonder how bad the other rules were.

[Iced Fairy]

Ah yes.  The said only bit.  It's passable advice but with all advice you can overdo it.  My current stance is never replace "said" with more then a single word.  But I think a variety of language is better then repetition (unless your deliberately trying to repeat yourself.)  The best trick is to use action movement and thought to avoid having to use said all together.

Also, remember a lot of "writing books" are designed with literature in mind.  I learned a couple tricks from one, but I had to hold my nose through the five page self righteous speil where he claimed film wasn't real art and compared science fiction writing to pornography.

[Ayuka]

Makes me wonder how bad the other rules were.

They weren't horrible per se, though I didn't agree with a few of them, mainly the first one: 'never read anything that begins with weather'. But a lot of it was 'never do this unless you're [insert famous author here]' so it did have a bit of a pretentious vibe to it. I was curious about those two specific pieces of advice, though.

[Unassuming Squid]

The way I see it, you should read authors whose writing styles you like, then adapt their styles into something you can enjoy and write comfortably. If you don't enjoy writing like Hemingway (why in God's name you would is beyond me), then don't write like him. If you enjoy writing like Lovecraft, then write like him.

I've never read a book on writing in my life, but people tend to like my work. I guess it partially depends on the writer as well.

[Ryuu]

I've leafed through a few writing books in my time. They give... well ,generally good advice, but a lot of it seems geared to people who are just starting out. The best writing advice I've ever heard personally is to write for yourself and to write from the heart. It's important to discover who you are as a writer for yourself, rather than finding it through the words of others.

[Alfred F. Jones]

I once got to take part in a Touhou fanwriter's conversation on IRC between UsuallyDead, Hungry Youkai, Trilkk, and a coupla o' others. UD heard that I had never touched a writing book in my life (not so anymore, but true back then), so he started talking to me about writing books that he had read in the past, and all the advice they'd given him. Hungry Youkai came in and pointed out that he'd never read any of those books either. UD an' HY had totally different approaches to their art, but it still worked out for the both of 'em in their own way.

I don't put much stock in writin' books meself, except for two in particular that were assigned to me in Creative Writing class in college: A Writer's Book of Days and Writing Down the Bones, both of which were meant to stimulate creativity rather than set guidelines for your writing (though the former did have lists of writing prompts and ideas for every day). Both of 'em were very good, I should hope-- White Rose began in that class, after all.

[beaver1231]

Where do I post my ideas for a fanfic?

It's not going to get written soon, but I just want to put it down first for comments.

[Alfred F. Jones]

Where do I post my ideas for a fanfic?

It's not going to get written soon, but I just want to put it down first for comments.

If they're just ideas for a fanfic, right here in this very thread should suffice, if it pleases ye.

[Landon]

Being a student, I've always enjoyed Literature/Writing classes, and enjoy signing up for them (I'm a total bibliophile :V). Most of the lessons I learned were about narrative writing, as it is easier to write about personal experiences than to make something completely up. One of the things reinforced by my teachers early on is that "said" should be use rarely, if at all. Books that enforce that type of writing seem to be quite silly (at least for me), as that type of writing would be undeniably dull, even for expository writing.

[beaver1231]

If they're just ideas for a fanfic, right here in this very thread should suffice, if it pleases ye.

*breathes in*

Today is a peaceful day at the Hakurei Shrine, peaceful within the Hakurei Shrine only.
She does not seem to notice it, because the skies are still blue, still clear of aliens, and the Hakurei Shrine is still empty, inside and outside, devoid of youkai desperately begging for the miko to solve their problems.
She does not seem to notice the huge amount of metal being transported around the youkai mountain.
She does not seem to notice the huge amount of bullets being transported throughout Gensokyo.
She does not seem to notice the huge amount weapons called "aircraft" flying around Gensokyo.
She does not seem to notice that the spellcard system is not in use.
She does not realize that the coup d'?tat has taken place.

And that's the introduction.
Oh yeah, this is a crossover fanfic, so feel free to ask questions and point out my grammatical mistakes.
I think I messed up bad...

[Esifex]

And that's the introduction.
Oh yeah, this is a crossover fanfic, so feel free to ask questions and point out my grammatical mistakes.
I think I messed up bad...

This is the Touhou/1942 crossover, isn't it? :O!

[beaver1231]

This is the Touhou/1942 crossover, isn't it? :O!

Actually it's not. I couldn't find a single term to cover Kamui, R-9, P-38 Lightning (1942), Hibachi(Dodonpachi), so I just used the word "airplanes".

I always have this problem of making far too ambitious projects that I'll never be able to finish.
How am I supposed to keep everyone's personality different anyway?

[Ryuu]

Sudden question: how do you writey-lot motivate yourself to actually write? Motivation is my biggest problem so I intend to thoroughly rip you all off try the techniques you guys use(unless you're those enviable types who can do it whenever with no thought).

[Alfred F. Jones]

There is a bottle here of rose water extract. I keep it near my desk for those times I need "motivation".

This stuff is better than crack and ten times more legal :]

Naw, seriously, I just go and write. Whenever I'm not suffering from writer's block, at least. It just comes naturally. On the rare occasions that I have had to write when I just didn't feel like it, I reminded myself that it was never going to get any easier and did it anyway.

But I'm also a lot more self-motivated than a lot of people I know, so my method might not work for you. In which case, I really do recommend the rose water. Or strawberries, which are also better than crack, and not only much more legal, they're also cheaper! :derp:

[Iced Fairy]

Let's see, currently I'm using shame.  In that my readers will be disappointed if I don't get something out.  This is a fickle mistress though, so use it sparingly.

If I have a story I really want to write I find it really hard to not write it.  Of course that's kind of hit or miss as well, but I've never been let down by following that impulse.

Lastly once you've built up momentum writing you tend to keep writing.  I've actually been doing other things, so I lost a lot of momentum, and I'm noticing the difference.  Hopefully this week will help get me back in gear.

[Ryuu]

There is a bottle here of rose water extract. I keep it near my desk for those times I need "motivation".

This stuff is better than crack and ten times more legal :]

I am totally gonna get me some of this. :V

Let's see, currently I'm using shame.  In that my readers will be disappointed if I don't get something out.  This is a fickle mistress though, so use it sparingly.

If I have a story I really want to write I find it really hard to not write it.  Of course that's kind of hit or miss as well, but I've never been let down by following that impulse.

Lastly once you've built up momentum writing you tend to keep writing.  I've actually been doing other things, so I lost a lot of momentum, and I'm noticing the difference.  Hopefully this week will help get me back in gear.

Shame seems motivating, but I have no fans to disappoint(that I know about). I'm jealous~

And yeah, momentum is great. Once I get started I'm like YEAH LET'S DO THIS even if it takes days for me to actually finish. But opening that document is like derp derp derp.

[Bias Bus]

Motivation for me is hard to get as well, because let's face it, I'm a lazy fuck. It's just something I get now and then at random, although sometimes after beating myself senseless and get off my ass and write.

Then there's this, which seems to be working fine.

[Tengukami]

I make myself sit down and type. That's really it. Waiting for inspiration won't help, as a big part of writing is outlining, maybe researching, and looooots of editing. You just have to compel yourself to keep typing. Don't worry if you're typing crap; you can polish and edit it later.

[Esifex]

Don't worry if you're typing crap; you can polish and edit it later.

And I myself tend to skip this phase entirely  :derp:

[Ryuu]

And I myself tend to skip this phase entirely  :derp:

Me too!

Thank you for your input, everyone. I feel motivated already(for the next ten minutes or so). :V

[Hello Purvis]

The said rule is a very good and important rule, and you should follow it.

The reason why it exists is because you want to have the emphasis be in your dialogue and not in your narration. You shouldn't have to do more than denote speaking, and who is doing it. The dialogue itself should express what you're trying to get across. 95% of the time, you want said to denote that <Character X> is making a statement of some kind. Exceptions are when said just literally would not fit (shouting and whispering). Playing the synonym game just detracts attention from your dialogue to the synonym you're using. If you can avoid using said altogether, though, do this as well. It's even better for having good strong writing.

As for "said <adverb>", you shouldn't have to do this. Your dialogue should be able to express that emotion itself. Don't tell people that she said sadly, what what she said sound sad! Make your text as lively as you can! The only time descriptors ought to be needed is when what someone is saying is truly at odds with what they mean, and even then, there's better ways to do it. Have actions and body language express it instead.

Also, if you want a book about writing, read 200 Ways Not to Write a Novel. It shows why those things are bad very nicely. And is also hella funny.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

Here's a completely-made-up-on-the-spot example:

He grinned through clenched teeth. "No, actually, I'm doing perfectly fine," he said.

[Hello Purvis]

That doesn't even need said on it, in my opinion, it's pretty clear the clenched teeth guy is speaking.

[Neonie]

I wrote an entire chapter (The Alice chapter) at work, when I got home and actually typed it out, it turned into something completely differently, but something I liked a lot better then what I had down. Sometimes stuff like that just needs to happen.