Author Topic: Touhou 13 ~ Ten Desires announced! (Read 264156 times)

[HJD]Red_Herring · « **Reply #750 on:** March 05, 2011, 07:38:19 PM »

Mima or Shinki is what people want and expect.

This reminds me of time when people cheered about possibility of Yumemi's return in UFO. They argued since the 東方星蓮船 which is the UFO's kanji title had the character for ship and Ichirin mentioned her 'sis' was a human, it must be true. They also added how Yuuka was in PoFV. Guess what? ZUN did not bring back Yumemi nor Chiyuri and did mention about low possibility of bringing PC-98 characters in future works. So, I would not place huge bet on Mima or Shinki's return.

Also, I am pessimistic about ZUN's comment about the game is going to have 'kind' difficulty by emphasizing in shooting down the targets - I recall him saying Touhou 9.5 was going to be easy and it was a killer for me. However, I am excited about the return of spell practice option. Only reason I could 1cc IN on Hard was numerous trial-and-errors in spell practice mode and I am glad to have it back.

KrackoCloud · « **Reply #751 on:** March 05, 2011, 08:37:39 PM »

It would be amusing if ZUN brought more curvy lasers in. Just a thought.

... Hey, let's speculate on 10D's Stage 5 gimmick!
The boss will have her own Hyper that makes her spellcards suddenly become harder for short bursts of time!

I wonder if ZUN'll ever implement control-switching for a Stage 5 boss. That would be brutal.

Drayen · « **Reply #752 on:** March 05, 2011, 08:52:53 PM »

Quote from: ゼンゲク on March 05, 2011, 06:51:52 PM

You were a Lunatic back when you played right? Danmaku skills never go away. They just go in hibernation until they are called upon again!

Lunatic's a big word, i've done a lot of practice on lunatic for most of the games, but I've only beaten IN and MoF on lunatic, i've beaten the other games on hard though, except for eosd, I never really got into that one, it's just too old.

Helix ⑨ · « **Reply #753 on:** March 05, 2011, 08:55:53 PM »

I hope he uses a similar life/bomb sytem as 12.8, because I really enjoyed it. Altough he would have to come up with something to gather % other than ice (point items can do this).
This will also be in line with his mindset of making this game slightly easier

Alfred F. Jones · « **Reply #754 on:** March 05, 2011, 09:02:57 PM »

Quote from: Twilight Sparkle on March 05, 2011, 03:44:05 PM

Kasen does not need to appear in any game

Look at this. Look at how wrong you are.

That said, I do agree with you that the Three Useless Fairies didn't need a game of their own. And for that matter, while Kasen should get spellcards (or, in my pipe dreams, a Last Word) and a theme, I actually disagree with Stuffman on how canon works flesh out a character more than a handful of lines. This is mostly because of official backstories and profiles from ZUN-- just look at Byakuren for the most recent example. Whether you love her or hate her, nobody can disagree that she has a lot of depth to her backstory. And canon works' track record of fleshing out characters isn't that great; SSiB didn't show us much of anything, SaBnD didn't do much for its three heroines, and Inaba2 was more comedic than anything else. (Great comedy, though.)

That said, as for CoLA and CiLR, they are both ungodly boring and I confess I've never been able to get past the first chapter of both, and it doesn't help that they're about characters I don't care about at all. WaHH, though, does have a lot more potential than the others for being both engaging and illuminating (in regards to the lives of the inhabitants of Gensokyo), and even if ZUN doesn't give Kasen an in-game appearance, there's always music CDs. I just don't think ZUN will be able to resist giving her a theme.

Infy♫ · « **Reply #755 on:** March 05, 2011, 09:09:10 PM »

Quote from: Eternal Zen on March 04, 2011, 05:03:36 AM

Looks like someone is getting their hopes up...

wait what
the user deleted his account
did you troll him that hard?
gee.

Drake · « **Reply #756 on:** March 05, 2011, 09:17:00 PM »

We pretty much just told him he was wrong. That's it :V

Tengukami · « **Reply #757 on:** March 05, 2011, 09:38:41 PM »

I think Stuffman's right. Introducing new things - whether "gimmicks", music, gameplay or yes, characters - keeps the game series interesting. As would a new spin on older characters, sure, but the manga can give you more character depth if that's what you're after.

That's what I don't get about "Character X does not need to appear/Character Y totally needs to appear she deserves it she's so much more worthy than anyone else waaah". Who's to say who "needs" to be in the game, and who doesn't? There's absolutely no qualitative measure for that. That's what I find so boggling about arguing over the importance of one character over another. It's another type of powerlevel discussion.

I love new characters. I also have old favorites that I'd love to see return. But I could never say who does and does not "need" to come back. That borders on entitled lunacy; like the game developer owes you, personally, your favorite Touhou.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #758 on:** March 05, 2011, 09:40:45 PM »

Quote from: Ruwako Moriya on March 05, 2011, 09:02:57 PM

Look at this. Look at how wrong you are.

That said, I do agree with you that the Three Useless Fairies didn't need a game of their own. And for that matter, while Kasen should get spellcards (or, in my pipe dreams, a Last Word) and a theme, I actually disagree with Stuffman on how canon works flesh out a character more than a handful of lines. This is mostly because of official backstories and profiles from ZUN-- just look at Byakuren for the most recent example. Whether you love her or hate her, nobody can disagree that she has a lot of depth to her backstory. And canon works' track record of fleshing out characters isn't that great; SSiB didn't show us much of anything, SaBnD didn't do much for its three heroines, and Inaba2 was more comedic than anything else. (Great comedy, though.)

That said, as for CoLA and CiLR, they are both ungodly boring and I confess I've never been able to get past the first chapter of both, and it doesn't help that they're about characters I don't care about at all. WaHH, though, does have a lot more potential than the others for being both engaging and illuminating (in regards to the lives of the inhabitants of Gensokyo), and even if ZUN doesn't give Kasen an in-game appearance, there's always music CDs. I just don't think ZUN will be able to resist giving her a theme.

So basically, Kasen deserves a theme and game appearance because you like WaHH, whereas the three fairies didn't because you don't like SaBND. I like all the print media (even CoLA), but I wouldn't say either WaHH or SaBND are particularly "illuminating" to the characters. Both give fun characterizations of characters by showing how their canon personalities act, but neither really develops anyone beyond their main characters. I'm not saying I'd hate seeing Kasen in a game with her own theme, but saying Kasen deserves it because you like how she's handled better than others seems somewhat hypocritical.

Iced Fairy · « **Reply #759 on:** March 05, 2011, 09:59:41 PM »

Quote from: Ruwako Moriya on March 05, 2011, 09:02:57 PM

Three Useless Fairies didn't need a game of their own.

Why you gotta be hating Ruro?

Cadmas · « **Reply #760 on:** March 05, 2011, 10:20:33 PM »

At least the fairies had better helmets than the moon rabbit derp patrol.

Reddyne · « **Reply #761 on:** March 05, 2011, 11:15:15 PM »

The three fairies didn't deserve a game of their own? I thought they were included in a game primarily because they didn't get much attention. By the same logic, Kasen could very well show up sooner or later. It's actually a good thing the fairies got a game because it means other characters that have appeared exclusively in written works may get the nod. Besides, who's Cirno going to pick a fight with?

Meanwhile, I can think of one character that got two games that were entirely unwarranted, and my personal opinion of guess-who went ridiculously far south because of it.

Solais · « **Reply #762 on:** March 05, 2011, 11:28:15 PM »

Lol, Ruro is hatin', that's a rare sight. It was great that the Three Fairies got their game, I always liked their manga better than most of the other's, including WaHH, and it's not just because of my fairy love, that's a role this forum gave me after all. The Three Fairy mangas actually gave something what I like the most about complex fictional worlds: Lore. Given, it was mainly the focus of the last chapters, but even chapters before those gave lore about the life of its people, while the last chapters of Strange and Bright gave us the maybe the most lore regarding fairies and the border than any other work.

As for the patterns, NO BULLETS, ONLY CURVING LASERS YEEEEEEEEEEAH.

Tiamat · « **Reply #763 on:** March 05, 2011, 11:55:16 PM »

There will probably be new characters simply because ZUN has stated in interviews that he loves designing new characters. Although I too don't really see much point in him re-using characters for a danmaku game. If it's about giving characters more exposure, he can do that in plenty of other outlets (mangas, gaiden games, etc) anyways, really.

N-Forza · « **Reply #764 on:** March 06, 2011, 12:06:51 AM »

Quote from: Ruwako Moriya on March 05, 2011, 09:02:57 PM

That said, as for CoLA... ungodly boring...

I will fight you.

And I personally though the Fairy Wars game was a neat idea, connecting the print works to the games in a more direct fashion, even down to Marisa showing up. That said, it's something that should be relegated to the side games.

Solais · « **Reply #765 on:** March 06, 2011, 12:32:12 AM »

CoLA was an incredibly interesting and lore filled read, I loved it!

Bias Bus · « **Reply #766 on:** March 06, 2011, 12:44:57 AM »

Quote from: Cadmas on March 05, 2011, 10:20:33 PM

At least the fairies had better helmets than the moon rabbit derp patrol.

Soldiers wearing retard helmets do not give me alot of confidence in this army... How do the Lunarians sleep at night knowing their army is a mass selection of special ed rejects?

Oh wait, Yorihime.

Alfred F. Jones · « **Reply #767 on:** March 06, 2011, 01:49:20 AM »

Quote from: nintendonut888 on March 05, 2011, 09:40:45 PM

So basically, Kasen deserves a theme and game appearance because you like WaHH, whereas the three fairies didn't because you don't like SaBND. I like all the print media (even CoLA), but I wouldn't say either WaHH or SaBND are particularly "illuminating" to the characters. Both give fun characterizations of characters by showing how their canon personalities act, but neither really develops anyone beyond their main characters. I'm not saying I'd hate seeing Kasen in a game with her own theme, but saying Kasen deserves it because you like how she's handled better than others seems somewhat hypocritical.

Kasen has an interesting background as a hermit, an intriguing character design, and a relatively new series with only a handful of installments so far. SaBND had more issues than WaHH and did absolutely nothing interesting with them, and WaHH has the potential to do a lot more, even though it hasn't gone that far yet. Neither is particularly illuminating yet, but Kasen has a certain enigmatic air regarding her appearance (namely, her right arm) that the Three Worthless Fairies missed out on.

Am I biased? Well, duh. I don't quite see how that makes me hypocritical, though; doesn't it make perfect sense to want to see your favoured characters more than others?

Quote from: Iced Fairy on March 05, 2011, 09:59:41 PM

Why you gotta be hating Ruro?

Look, you can have your slice of life with Three Moronic Fairies whenever you want. I, for one, would like to see more of Kasen punching out criminal spirits with her delicious bandaged right arm. Personal tastes and all.

I honestly remember very little of the details of SaBND. This is probably because nothing interesting ever happened. I do remember really liking Makoto Hirasaka's take on the visuals of Gensokyo and slightly snickering at how the canon design of the SDM's architecture changed from SaBND to SSiB, but apart from that, it was still really dull. Slice-of-life is not what keeps me interested. CoLA is even worse in that regard, and I will never, ever understand why people bother to read it for any reason than it being canon that they should know. I would say I was sorry for not being able to stand boring written works, but that would be lying.

For the record, of all ZUN's written works, it's his stories about Maribel and Renko that interest me most-- they strike just the right balance of adventure and enigma and fun for me. Second place is Inaba², which was just hilarious.

Vanishing Sock Puppet · « **Reply #768 on:** March 06, 2011, 02:24:00 AM »

Quote

"X" character doesn't deserve a game!
"Y" character doesn't deserve a game!
I'm mad because "Z" character got her own game!

What the fuck is this bullshit?

Why are people getting so up in arms about a Touhou character getting a side-game to themselves? Doesn't a certain character getting her own game just mean ZUN thought up a gameplay mechanic/scenario that fit that character? Isn't that a good thing?

I'm just of the opinion that if a certain character can bring something a bit fresh to the Touhou formula, they're fine with getting their own game. Aya brought the photography gameplay, so I'm fine with her having her two games. Cirno brought the bullet freezing, and the three fairies were low enough on the power scale that Cirno could believably fight with them without fans calling bullshit. As such, I see no problem with Cirno having her own game, and this is coming from a guy who hated Cirno until recently (The 9 jokes man...the 9 jokes...!). That's just my view on the subject, anyway.

orinrin · « **Reply #769 on:** March 06, 2011, 02:25:49 AM »

Haters gonna hate, etc.

Alfred F. Jones · « **Reply #770 on:** March 06, 2011, 02:32:58 AM »

Quote from: Vanishing Trooper on March 06, 2011, 02:24:00 AM

The fuck is this bullshit?

Why are people getting so up in arms about a Touhou character getting a side-game to themselves? Doesn't a certain character getting her own game just mean ZUN thought up a gameplay mechanic that fit that character? Isn't that a good thing?

You're essentially claiming not to understand that people want their favourite characters to show up again. Why are they not allowed to say as much? ZUN's not going to bring characters on demand, anyway, so they might as well.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #771 on:** March 06, 2011, 02:33:48 AM »

Quote from: Ruwako Moriya on March 06, 2011, 01:49:20 AM

Kasen has an interesting background as a hermit, an intriguing character design, and a relatively new series with only a handful of installments so far. SaBND had more issues than WaHH and did absolutely nothing interesting with them, and WaHH has the potential to do a lot more, even though it hasn't gone that far yet. Neither is particularly illuminating yet, but Kasen has a certain enigmatic air regarding her appearance (namely, her right arm) that the Three Worthless Fairies missed out on.

Am I biased? Well, duh. I don't quite see how that makes me hypocritical, though; doesn't it make perfect sense to want to see your favoured characters more than others?
Look, you can have your slice of life with Three Moronic Fairies whenever you want. I, for one, would like to see more of Kasen punching out criminal spirits with her delicious bandaged right arm. Personal tastes and all.

Why does it make it hypocritical? You yourself said you were getting pretty annoyed with all the Mima fans complaining she isn't coming back. I'm not saying the cases are the same, but note the similarities. Of course we all want to see our favored characters appear more. I personally wanna see more of Yukari, since she's almost undoubtably the character with the most complex motives and mysterious backstory in the series, but I'm content to see others get their time in the sun. And before you say it, Kasen has an entire manga centered around her.

And you're free to dislike the comics; slice of life isn't for everyone (though you could classify Touhou's story as a whole as a cross between that and action), and I admit if you aren't interested specifically in the lore then CoLA would seem really boring. However, some people do like it, like the three fairies, and had a lot of fun with them getting their own game. Speaking of, the game was an extension of one of the manga stories, so if it weren't made an entire arc would have gone unfinished. Maybe at some point Kasen will get a game like that?

Vanishing Sock Puppet · « **Reply #772 on:** March 06, 2011, 02:43:58 AM »

Quote from: Ruwako Moriya on March 06, 2011, 02:32:58 AM

You're essentially claiming not to understand that people want their favourite characters to show up again. Why are they not allowed to say as much? ZUN's not going to bring characters on demand, anyway, so they might as well.

I'm not saying that at all. I can understand why someone would want their favorite character to come back, I have characters I'd love to see come back. What I don't understand is why people are getting mad when different characters get in a game (example: People getting mad about Aya/Cirno getting games). THAT's what bugs me.

Not to mention it's making the thread's atmosphere weird. We're getting a new Touhou game, this should be a happy discussion!

Alfred F. Jones · « **Reply #773 on:** March 06, 2011, 02:46:12 AM »

Quote from: nintendonut888 on March 06, 2011, 02:33:48 AM

Why does it make it hypocritical? You yourself said you were getting pretty annoyed with all the Mima fans complaining she isn't coming back. I'm not saying the cases are the same, but note the similarities. Of course we all want to see our favored characters appear more. I personally wanna see more of Yukari, since she's almost undoubtably the character with the most complex motives and mysterious backstory in the series, but I'm content to see others get their time in the sun. And before you say it, Kasen has an entire manga centered around her.

I want to ask how it is possible to want more Yukari, since she's already in PCB, CiLR, IaMP, IN, StB, SaBND, SSiB, CoLA, SWR, SWRS, and SA. But eh. Kasen only has one appearance, so I should be content with that, right? >_> At least the Mima fanboys have a few games to her name. Kasen has the one manga. That's it.

Quote

Speaking of, the game was an extension of one of the manga stories, so if it weren't made an entire arc would have gone unfinished. Maybe at some point Kasen will get a game like that?

Totally. She'll be the Extra stage boss when Watatsuki no Yorihime and Watatsuki no Toyohime are the only playable characters.

Actually, that's one of the reasons I like the gaiden games so damn much. They satisfy everyone by bringing back a huge amount of characters with brand-new spellcards. Great stuff. (Unless you're a Yuka fan, I guess.)

Quote from: Vanishing Trooper on March 06, 2011, 02:43:58 AM

Not to mention it's making the thread's atmosphere weird. We're a new Touhou game, this should be a happy discussion!

I like you! Unfortunately, I don't have any more speculation to throw out, since my challenge to hypothesize story links between UFO and 10D wasn't that interesting, apparently.

Romantique Tp · « **Reply #774 on:** March 06, 2011, 02:48:21 AM »

Byakuren was sealed together with Mima,

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #775 on:** March 06, 2011, 02:54:08 AM »

Quote from: Ruwako Moriya on March 06, 2011, 02:46:12 AM

I want to ask how it is possible to want more Yukari, since she's already in PCB, CiLR, IaMP, IN, StB, SaBND, SSiB, CoLA, SWR, SWRS, and SA. But eh. Kasen only has one appearance, so I should be content with that, right? >_> At least the Mima fanboys have a few games to her name. Kasen has the one manga. That's it.

One manga gives a lot more characterization and screentime than a game. The only thing Kasen doesn't get from an in-game appearance is a theme (which as you said will probably be fixed someday) and a text backstory, which is obvious because the manga is going to give her backstory to us.

As for wanting more Yukari, she's my favorite character! Until ZUN clarifies for certain what she is trying to do (and I know full well this will probably never happen), I'll look forward to seeing her. I thought the small story told from her perspective in Seasonal Dream Vision was fascinating to read, so why shouldn't I want to see more of her?

See? It's that easy to show intense bias and confuse others with it.

If Shikieiki got tons of appearances, you would still want more, admit it.

Suikama · « **Reply #776 on:** March 06, 2011, 02:56:06 AM »

i know exactly what's going to happen in 10D

i'll tell you guys about it next week

Cadmas · « **Reply #777 on:** March 06, 2011, 02:57:23 AM »

I was somewhat unimpressed with Kasen. That one Manga chapter has left a lot to be desired.
Finally having a character that is a hermit has me wishing for more.

At this point Kasen doesn't feel much like a "real touhou."

Alfred F. Jones · « **Reply #778 on:** March 06, 2011, 03:45:32 AM »

Quote from: nintendonut888 on March 06, 2011, 02:54:08 AM

See? It's that easy to show intense bias and confuse others with it. If Shikieiki got tons of appearances, you would still want more, admit it.

Nope. Aya is probably the better example. At this point, I won't whine if she doesn't get any more appearances, since she's already got a bunch under her belt. It's called 'being reasonable'. People who can possibly want to see more Yukari after she's been in almost every entry in the Touhou series are not practicing that. >__>

Quote from: Cadmas on March 06, 2011, 02:57:23 AM

At this point Kasen doesn't feel much like a "real touhou."

Eh, none of them feel quite 'real' until later. The UFO characters were criticized left and right until they were accepted as part of the setting alongside everyone else, to use the most recent example. That's not really a problem.

Jana · « **Reply #779 on:** March 06, 2011, 03:50:46 AM »

Being reasonable is different from wanting more. Patchouli has had a decent number of appearances and is fairly well-fleshed-out in canon, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to see more of her.

Do I think she needs to appear more? No, not really. But I certainly would like to see my favorite character again.