Author Topic: Touhou Labyrinth discussion thread (Read 319459 times)

Milkyway64 · « **Reply #450 on:** December 18, 2009, 06:32:05 AM »

Quote from: Ghaleon on December 18, 2009, 06:18:41 AM

Yeah, you have to beat the final boss before all the extra goodies appear.

Lol. "Extra goodies" sounds like little rewards worth messing around with once it is all over. Dunno about you, but my ending is on floor 30. I am only halfway through my quest. :V

But, erm, beating it halfway is still gonna feel -AWESOME.-

Ghaleon · « **Reply #451 on:** December 18, 2009, 07:10:37 AM »

Quote from: Milkyway64 on December 18, 2009, 06:32:05 AM

Lol. "Extra goodies" sounds like little rewards worth messing around with once it is all over. Dunno about you, but my ending is on floor 30. I am only halfway through my quest. :V

But, erm, beating it halfway is still gonna feel -AWESOME.-

By beat the final boss, I mean the final boss of the pre-plus disk. Kinda like diablo is the final boss in Diablo 2, where Baal is for the expansion.

But anyway, I took a venture into floor 21. The trash...eek. there are the big guys with approximately 400,000 health which spawn with other mobs, or in groups of 3. And well.. they 1shot my tanks if they use their big move!

Then there are some other scary looking things, which use tai slash (physical row attack), which 1shots poor reimu in slot 3.. REIMU. She's like the epitome of tanky caster. wtf. What's worse. THEY GIVE LESS EXP than floor 20. egads.

I got my first expansion lewt too, wasn't even page 11, but page 12 gear. unfortunately it totally sucks. (sp+88%, that's it), dropped from a group of 3 diff enemies, not sure which drops it.

update:
Apparently there is some way to level up alot. One of 4 sigil guardian minibosses on floor 21 can oneshot china with hakurai barrier buff on using tai slash. Along with everyone else except remi in slot 2, and only because she cursed, so was sitting pretty at 100% defense. She surrendered with 2k hp left. Am I supposed to grind floor 20 trash THAT much? I've already gained like 40 levels on one floor, gah. Not to mention you cannot repeat the mk2 bosses (not that it's an effective way to farm exp anyway), or the boss rush (ditto)...Well actually you can repeat the boss rush, but it'll be mk2 boss rush, which would utterly rape me lol. I can handle one, maybe 2. But all of em? yeah right.

Also, does anybody know what unlocking the barrier thing behind the crystal needing 2 stars unlocked does?

AlexX Unlimited · « **Reply #452 on:** December 18, 2009, 08:02:44 AM »

Quote from: Ghaleon on December 17, 2009, 08:19:01 PM

Pretty sure you can benefit from that without even having her in a single battle (not that that's a good idea this early in the game, you might as well use her at least until you get 13 people). You get 1 BP just for having someone chilling in your back row per fight. As long as you have at least 250 fights before you get 13 members (assuming she's the first you dump), you're golden.

It's good to have her out for some battles anyway though. Her big nukes are pretty much royal flares that early in the game.

I decided to make Sakuya my first benched character. Youmu, like milkyway said, can be effective if used like Chen or whoever where you swap her in, have her use her best moves, then swap her out to restore SP. Seems like a waste, but she can take some good blows, so she can occupy the first or second slot and soak up a couple hits before I get the chance to bench her again (and she'll just heal herself of the damage while her SP restores). As such, I'll be keeping her on my team a little while longer.

On that subject, as much as people tell me Aya is better, I think I'll be sticking with Chen a while longer as well (just hit floor 5 and got the last item). She's got herself a nice level lead as it is, and while her defenses make me cringe she DOES have the benefit of being able to smack enemies several times before they get a turn in (the seal boss on floor 4 she managed to hit about 4 or 5 times before it managed to get an attack in... the fact the next attack nuked the party and took out Chen is meaningless; she took out a huge fraction of its HP all by herself and would have probably survived if I was smart and used that last turn she had to swap her out for someone who could eat the attack rather than push my luck further).

Ghaleon · « **Reply #453 on:** December 18, 2009, 08:09:05 AM »

Just be aware that sakuya's lunar clock is probably more meaningful to a boss fight than youmu's big slashes. She's definately not very useful early on though when your sp is so low that you can only cast it once though >=P.

So, for those at floor 20ish, you may wanna check out the bloodstained seal on floor 1, it's actually really easy. I thought I was on a suicide mission but it's a helluva lot easier than the mk 2s....Just don't have anybody with low defense out until it stops spamming needle parade. They'll get gibbed really fast.

trancehime · « **Reply #454 on:** December 18, 2009, 08:22:00 AM »

Quote from: Ghaleon on December 18, 2009, 08:09:05 AM

So, for those at floor 20ish, you may wanna check out the bloodstained seal on floor 1, it's actually really easy. I thought I was on a suicide mission but it's a helluva lot easier than the mk 2s....Just don't have anybody with low defense out until it stops spamming needle parade. They'll get gibbed really fast.

Spoiler:

Quote

Also, does anybody know what unlocking the barrier thing behind the crystal needing 2 stars unlocked does?

Which floor? F20 leads to boss rush

AlexX Unlimited · « **Reply #455 on:** December 18, 2009, 08:29:15 AM »

Quote from: Ghaleon on December 18, 2009, 08:09:05 AM

Just be aware that sakuya's lunar clock is probably more meaningful to a boss fight than youmu's big slashes. She's definately not very useful early on though when your sp is so low that you can only cast it once though >=P.

Yeah, I'm aware I'm giving up Luna Dial, but Youmu can use one Slash of Eternity and one Slash of Present with her current SP pool, which by themselves can usually take off a good 7-9k off a boss, which combined with her better defenses has been more helpful in boss fights for me compared to when I use Sakuya and her Luna Dial (yes, I lost the fight to Darkness Bitch the first time... it took a lot of Chen-smacking to beat her, too).

Ghaleon · « **Reply #456 on:** December 18, 2009, 08:59:14 AM »

Quote from: Reona Wallflower on December 18, 2009, 08:22:00 AM

Which floor? F20 leads to boss rush

Sorry, I mean the 4 yukari-barriers, where each one needs 1 more star than the last. Do they do anything at all before you get all 4? Or is all 4 needed? I figure something happens when you unlock them one at a time since they could have easily just put 1 of them there needing 5 stars if not >=P.

5th floor bloodstained seal guardian is also drop-dead easy. 9th floor one wasn't as easy, but not hard. I think that's all of them so far minus the one on the 20th floor, which I don't really feel like doing atm since all my casters do 0 damage to it. Not sure if it's supposed to be doable by level 160ish or not. (it buffs itself with 100% mag though right at the start, scary).

BTW the 9th floor seal guardian and the 20th one. I recognize them, but I don't know wtf floor 1 and 5 are from, anybody know?

AlexX Unlimited · « **Reply #457 on:** December 18, 2009, 10:30:13 AM »

Just got "Bitch on the 6th Floor". She seems to specialize in debuffs and looks surprisingly durable for a magic specialist. I'll be taking her out for a spin to see how she works.

EDIT: I'll just say it right now: I'm VERY happy someone posted a map of how the warps work on floor 7.

EDIT2: For the sake of some more conversation, which character is displayed on the save file screen for you guys? For some strange reason its Chen for me.

Krimmydoodle · « **Reply #458 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:21:45 PM »

Quote from: AlexX on December 18, 2009, 10:30:13 AM

EDIT2: For the sake of some more conversation, which character is displayed on the save file screen for you guys? For some strange reason its Chen for me.

If I understand correctly, it's dependent on which character has the most "battle points." Every time someone begins a battle as one of the front four, they gain a battle point, and every time someone ends a battle as one of the front four, they gain another. So basically, it means Chen is your most used character, while mine is Remi because she's an invaluable tank and damage dealer, and practically never gets switched out (the one time I can think of when I -have- switched her out was due to TP limitations for a particularly long dungeon segment). The only other use for battle points is for a few sidequest requirements, and they have no effect on your characters' abilities.

*Anyone who understands this game better than I do is free to correct any of this statement if it's wrong.

Serela · « **Reply #459 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:29:14 PM »

Quote from: AlexX on December 18, 2009, 10:30:13 AM

EDIT2: For the sake of some more conversation, which character is displayed on the save file screen for you guys? For some strange reason its Chen for me.

Its the character with the most battle points. They get 2 points if they are in your 4 fighting characters after a battle, and 1 if they are in reserve. A few events needed to recruit some characters require certain other charcters to have at least 150~250 battle points. I have been inb4ed.

Also, yes, its very strange that its Chen... I can't use her constantly in random battles due to her paperness. D: Mine is Remilia, who's been keeping slot 2 occupied for the vast majority of my game as semi-tank with good single target damage. If I switched her out for a while it might change to Reimu or Marisa.

Pesco · « **Reply #460 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:30:24 PM »

Krim's post is fully correct.

I took great effort to make Marisa my save screen poster.

RainfallYoshi · « **Reply #461 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:41:12 PM »

Mine is Hong for the win. She's had a permanent seat on my party until very recently.

Garlyle · « **Reply #462 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:42:47 PM »

My save screen did show Marisa for the longest time (Due to high TP and Asteroid Belt being, well, Asteroid Belt), but more recently, Meiling has taken that spot from her.

Krimmydoodle · « **Reply #463 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:47:49 PM »

I would also like to take this moment to say that Djinn Storm is the worst fucking spell ever (actually, it's a great fucking spell, as it is a very efficient way to fuck over your party). I just can't keep up with 16F after the second Djinn Storm, starting out the third (and I pray final) phase with no SP and with 16F buffing herself to roflstomp levels. Bonus points in fail if I forget to remove someone's poison beforehand, leaving them uncured and rendering them uselessly sitting at the inevitable 1 HP.

Pesco · « **Reply #464 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:50:25 PM »

Challenge!

Make

Spoiler:

your save screen character. :V

RainfallYoshi · « **Reply #465 on:** December 18, 2009, 01:56:33 PM »

Quote from: Pesco on December 18, 2009, 01:50:25 PM

Challenge!

Make
Spoiler:
Fundoshi Rinnosuke
your save screen character. :V

Better challenge!

Make

Spoiler:

your save screen character! :V

Pesco · « **Reply #466 on:** December 18, 2009, 02:35:59 PM »

She might be pathetically useless, but still lookable.

Krimmydoodle · « **Reply #467 on:** December 18, 2009, 03:11:06 PM »

Okay, beat 16F, although it's with the first officially saved occurrence of a casualty (or five). Funnily enough, when I realized I was screwed after I failed to stop the ownage of Release 2 (I prayed that 10F would be able to stop it, didn't quite have the effect I wanted), I Sparked, boss survived, I thought "yeah, not winning", lost all of my attackers, then decided "last ditch effort: *Falling Leaves of Madness *Battle Finished o_O"

After happening to score the boss drop, I'm not doing this again. I'm done I'm done I'm done with this obsessive Fire Emblem-style "no one is allowed to die ever" playstyle. But I just want to be sure, there's nothing in this game that is actually affected by casualties incurred, right? I tend to go through RPGs with this playstyle juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust in case there's some Uber Sword of + 255/(casualties + 1) Power or something like that. If there's even something as simple as a pointless death count for the statistically curious, I might almost be obsessive enough to care, although at this point I'm definitely seeing that it's just a really bad idea to be this obsessive against enemies this powerful.

I hate being obsessive.

RainfallYoshi · « **Reply #468 on:** December 18, 2009, 03:26:23 PM »

The game would be jacked right up to "cruel joke from hell" if death count had any significance.

So no, there's really no need to obsess over it.

Serela · « **Reply #469 on:** December 18, 2009, 03:43:04 PM »

Okay, I got to the stairs on 13F, and I'm just going to leave the rest of 13F unexplored. Anything I haven't seen, screw it, I saw the character event and got a few nice items and I'm pretty sure I'm not missing anything significant. I have no idea what the rest of the warp combinations are and I REALLY don't feel like figuring them out.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1015/13f.png

Its kinda pretty, if you ignore the non-symmetrical unexplored parts. Not [img]'ed for spoiler reasons.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #470 on:** December 18, 2009, 05:39:19 PM »

Quote from: NeoSerela on December 18, 2009, 03:43:04 PM

Okay, I got to the stairs on 13F, and I'm just going to leave the rest of 13F unexplored. Anything I haven't seen, screw it, I saw the character event and got a few nice items and I'm pretty sure I'm not missing anything significant. I have no idea what the rest of the warp combinations are and I REALLY don't feel like figuring them out.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1015/13f.png

Its kinda pretty, if you ignore the non-symmetrical unexplored parts. Not [img]'ed for spoiler reasons.

Oh, 13F is the fake binary floor? I thought it was 17 for some reason. Yeah that floor is a major pain. I think there is only one character event the whole floor, so if you got it, there's nothing else too important to miss. Some treasure probably but nothing that you can't get from an enemy drop.

My screen save is Remi as well. It was Marisa for a long time though, and before it switched to Remi, it was actually Aya..for like 1 save.

Remi got her lead when I was needlessly farming battlepoints for characters I don't use so I could get miss 12F boss who you don't get until floor 15 or 16 or whatever it was. She was my tank at that time.

I don't see why people use hong during trash battles though. I find they are much easier if you kill them before they move, and well..Hong is kinda bad at the killing department. By floor 14 or 15 or so, asteroid belt and fantasy seal just doesn't cut it for killing everything on the screen anymore. Remi also moves fast, so I find it's good to use her to switch someone who is useless for a particular fight, for someone who is better (for those enemies that take 0 damage from pretty much everything but 1 or 2 elements).

scherzo · « **Reply #471 on:** December 18, 2009, 07:09:56 PM »

For the boss encounter on 12F,

Spoiler:

Quote from: Ghaleon on December 18, 2009, 05:39:19 PM

Oh, 13F is the fake binary floor? I thought it was 17 for some reason. Yeah that floor is a major pain. I think there is only one character event the whole floor, so if you got it, there's nothing else too important to miss. Some treasure probably but nothing that you can't get from an enemy drop.

If you don't mind a bit of cheating, the codes are all up on the Japanese Touhou wiki. The treasures are probably the best you can get at that point (Ribbon, Lion King's Soul, Robe of Twilight come to mind).

Ghaleon · « **Reply #472 on:** December 18, 2009, 07:24:33 PM »

Quote from: Functorial on December 18, 2009, 07:09:56 PM

For the boss encounter on 12F,
Spoiler:
how much hp does Mokou have once she uses Resurrection? Fujiyama Volcano OHKO's my entire party except for Tenshi and Remilia, and Mokou also casts it reasonably quickly.

Many bosses feature increased difficulty near the end. I can't answer your question exactly, but in case you haven't already, the solution is often to master spark. Early on such a boss fight, bring out Marisa, concentrate 3 times (4 if you want 100% instead of 97%, I don't think it's worth the risk personally), then switch her out (using someone else before its her turn again or else you lose 20% of the buff). Keep her there and dont waste her sp until "that part", and hopefully the boss gets owned. It sometimes also helps to use Tenshi to State of enlightenment, then bench her as well if you don't need to use her (give her speed buffs if possible). until that part. In the event that one master spark wont cut it, Tenshin will be able to take more hits than normal, and can bring out more people one at a time between blasts from the boss. That's only worth doing if she can take significantly more hits fully defense fully buffed from the boss than your other tanks can otherwise though.

Serela · « **Reply #473 on:** December 18, 2009, 07:30:10 PM »

Oh god 15F makes me want to just run from every random encounter and explore the floor like that. Rumia and Patchy can take out the near-invincible enemies but they're both slow and die easily. I actually had to resort to master sparking on random encounters, and thats just WRONG. Then of course, the remaining enemies have quite high HP and PAR party attacks, or high damage physical hits.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #474 on:** December 18, 2009, 07:32:56 PM »

Quote from: NeoSerela on December 18, 2009, 07:30:10 PM

Oh god 15F makes me want to just run from every random encounter and explore the floor like that. Rumia and Patchy can take out the near-invincible enemies but they're both slow and die easily. I actually had to resort to master sparking on random encounters, and thats just WRONG. Then of course, the remaining enemies have quite high HP and PAR party attacks, or high damage physical hits.

If a certain enemy is taking 0 damage from virtually everything. Try nature damage. If you use autumn harvest goddess lady. Don't do the multi target one, it's feeble as #@%@%#. The single target one is the only way to go.

But yeah, I seem to recall there being bronze golems or giants or something which take alot of hits and don't require many to take out your toughest guys.

Just wait until you see "helbelmares" next floor *shudders*

scherzo · « **Reply #475 on:** December 18, 2009, 07:35:29 PM »

Quote from: Ghaleon on December 18, 2009, 07:24:33 PM

Many bosses feature increased difficulty near the end. I can't answer your question exactly, but in case you haven't already, the solution is often to master spark. Early on such a boss fight, bring out Marisa, concentrate 3 times (4 if you want 100% instead of 97%, I don't think it's worth the risk personally), then switch her out (using someone else before its her turn again or else you lose 20% of the buff). Keep her there and dont waste her sp until "that part", and hopefully the boss gets owned. It sometimes also helps to use Tenshi to State of enlightenment, then bench her as well if you don't need to use her (give her speed buffs if possible). until that part. In the event that one master spark wont cut it, Tenshin will be able to take more hits than normal, and can bring out more people one at a time between blasts from the boss. That's only worth doing if she can take significantly more hits fully defense fully buffed from the boss than your other tanks can otherwise though.

I tried that strategy once, but Master Spark only does 70k damage (I think it was near 100% magic as well), which is why I was asking. Also, Tenshi dies in 3 hits with SoE on, and

Spoiler:

moves so fast that I can get maybe one hit in after switching. I'll try investing more in Marisa's magic and see if that makes a difference.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #476 on:** December 18, 2009, 07:40:37 PM »

Quote from: Functorial on December 18, 2009, 07:35:29 PM

I tried that strategy once, but Master Spark only does 70k damage (I think it was near 100% magic as well), which is why I was asking. Also, Tenshi dies in 3 hits with SoE on, and
Spoiler:
Mokou
moves so fast that I can get maybe one hit in after switching. I'll try investing more in Marisa's magic and see if that makes a difference.

That was with full sp? Marisa's master spark is overrated IMO for overall damage, but it really does stomp the competition when it comes to "oh no I'm going to lose, this boss needs to die in the next hit!" type deals. Some bosses are very resistant to mystic though.

I don't know if 70k is alot at your level or not though. Unless the boss is weak or strong against mystic, my 100% mag full sp master sparks typically nail for about 5-6 silent selenes. It scales disproportionately fast for me because of the sp gain as well as the MAG gain though, I think at that point it was only like 3.

scherzo · « **Reply #477 on:** December 18, 2009, 07:57:32 PM »

Quote from: Ghaleon on December 18, 2009, 07:40:37 PM

That was with full sp? Marisa's master spark is overrated IMO for overall damage, but it really does stomp the competition when it comes to "oh no I'm going to lose, this boss needs to die in the next hit!" type deals. Some bosses are very resistant to mystic though.

I don't know if 70k is alot at your level or not though. Unless the boss is weak or strong against mystic, my 100% mag full sp master sparks typically nail for about 5-6 silent selenes. It scales disproportionately fast for me because of the sp gain as well as the MAG gain though, I think at that point it was only like 3.

My Marisa is lvl 56, with 4864 magic and 482 sp. I probably need to boost her stats (or I could try landing Komachi/Alice's stat debuffs before they get wiped out).

Edit: So I upped Master Spark's damage to 75k and the boss went down.

Serela · « **Reply #478 on:** December 18, 2009, 08:01:56 PM »

Quote from: Ghaleon on December 18, 2009, 07:32:56 PM

If a certain enemy is taking 0 damage from virtually everything. Try nature damage. If you use autumn harvest goddess lady. Don't do the multi target one, it's feeble as #@%@%#. The single target one is the only way to go.

But yeah, I seem to recall there being bronze golems or giants or something which take alot of hits and don't require many to take out your toughest guys.

Thanks, this really helps. That girl takes more abuse then Patchy or Rumia, and is more overall useful then the latter, but even with them both I can't last particularly long in 15F. I can stay long enough though, so I'll be able to tough it out until I pick up a few more levels and it gets better. Hopefully I'll be able to beat some of the optional character bosses that have opened up since reaching 14F...

Anima Zero · « **Reply #479 on:** December 19, 2009, 12:06:12 AM »

Didn't play much today, but I managed to take out the optional bitches on 12F and 14F.

12F one didn't go on an ATK/MAG debuff skill spam-a-thon this time. Seemed tame until it broke out a rather nasty fire attack. Survived that, brought out Marisa, Master Spark'd her for ~92k after a few Concentrates cast earlier in the fight and wiped her out.

14F one was more or less praying I didn't get tons of DTH running around the field (And a couple attacks being rather painful in the damage department). Thanks to equips and likely getting a bit lucky, nobody died in this fight.