Puzzle & Dragons forever 17 - Star Vault Didn't Go So Well: I Was Nonplussed

[OverlordChirei]

That took a while

[Mr. Sacchi]

With Poring Tower nowhere in sight and me not being able to do twinlits in the near future, I have decided to get my Mega Valk so I can get a little bit extra oomph on my healer team.

Not like my Athena Team is gonna be a thing in the near future anyway, I mean, I have zero angelits and I need 2 after all.

Still, what do you guys think would be needed most in an Athena team - Izanagi or Mega Light Valk?

[Moogs Parfait]

MegaValk is more important for that 5 turn cooldown, but if you can't skill her up Izanagi may be more important.

If you can't beat twinlits you probably can't beat alt dungeons?  An Athena team may be far in the future for you

[Thaws]

I mean.

pppppossibly? I've seen a sharp increase in special god pulls the last few godfest, but I've always known them to have low as hell rates (See literally never having any of them but grodin ever.)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqGpHpqCUAIE8nF.png
I can't find a newer image but around 300pulls in a fes half a year ago, and you can see the rate for 5* special gods are pretty much same as normal gods on avg (LMeta LOL)

Dear Gungho,


Please give green more ways to change dark and light.

From,
Perseus

Fun story. Demons got their orb-change sub-effect a long time ago when stall teams were still a big thing, Astaroth was the best demon because it's basically slower Luci but can deal with god binds.
So they intended demons to convert colours that don't collide with other existing orb changers, Astaroth can convert light or dark, but dark wouldn't make sense because of her being sub-dark, so she turned light. Then the complaints came, because it steals light orbs from Piedra which was her best and only heartmaker. They changed it to red because of this.
Fast forward to today, astaroth is godly member because of awakenings and cd shortening, and we green team players continue to suffer in regret. :v

I'll never know why Perseus only turns red and blue. That was dumb. I guess they hate green :V (but then liu bei happened which solved everything including the lack of dark->green)

You're welcome to ditch Meimei and
come to the I-want-verdandi-so-badly-;w; camp. :]

yet we still sit here with no verdandi

;---;

[Chaore]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BqGpHpqCUAIE8nF.png
I can't find a newer image but around 300pulls in a fes half a year ago, and you can see the rate for 5* special gods are pretty much same as normal gods on avg (LMeta LOL)

Half a year is kind of a really significant amount of time, not gonna lie.

And I mean- it also demonstrates my point. Barring that pretty outlierish Lmeta pull rate, the highest amount of dupes are -all- pantheon gods. Theres almost double as many artemis as grodins despite the pantheon as a whole having a lower 'pull rate' (Which is seriously mostly because of that huge outlier in lmeta lol what the hell, lmeta hates this dude) And theres still double the chance to pull a pantheon god overall. It's still pretty safe to say you overall are more likely to pull a pantheon god.

Overall, yeaaah I feel pretty safe saying the person not pulling 300 times is gonna be more likely to get a pantheon god.

This isn't accurate of the current gacha as well for sure. Whale garuanteed.

I'll never know why Perseus only turns red and blue. That was dumb. I guess they hate green :V (but then liu bei happened which solved everything including the lack of dark->green)

You're welcome to ditch Meimei and
come to the I-want-verdandi-so-badly-;w; camp. :]

I'd give one of you my far too many fucking michael. He's a better match for this job I think- shorter cooldown overall, changes both non-green colors allowing a full board with cu chu or elize, dual green...

He has a row too.

Amitan or Generate are obviously easier to get too, but amitan requires three actives minimum to do his job which is far too many, especially on perseus. And generate requires ZEEEEEEEEEEEEE farming.

Comedy option of Saiga too.

Edit: Oh michael also gives you 100% skill block resist- So you get that too.

[commandercool]

What's playing a Perseus team like? And how different is it/in what ways from an Athena team? I have the pieces to make what I think is a solid Perseus build (Perseus, Meimei, Michael, Liu Bei) and have been considering making that my next big project after Kali is done. Most of the pieces aren't skillupped at all though, and that seems important and hard.

[Chaore]

What's playing a Perseus team like? And how different is it/in what ways from an Athena team? I have the pieces to make what I think is a solid Perseus build (Perseus, Meimei, Michael, Liu Bei) and have been considering making that my next big project after Kali is done. Most of the pieces aren't skillupped at all though, and that seems important and hard.

A glance at your Padherder basically makes me say 'fuck no don't even try' tbh

Liu bei is practically worthless without skill ups, and michael and perseus will probably be a bit too slow.

You'll be basically leaning on Cuchu alone at that point.

[commandercool]

A glance at your Padherder basically makes me say 'fuck no don't even try' tbh

Liu bei is practically worthless without skill ups, and michael and perseus will probably be a bit too slow.

You'll be basically leaning on Cuchu alone at that point.

Right, when I say "making it my next big project" most of what that entails is "skillmaxing everything". Except maybe Perseus himself because he seems unreasonably difficult to work with. Is that worth undertaking? It's probably a fairly long-term project at any rate.

Edit: Of the things I'd have to work on I think I definitely want Liu Bei maxed out someday regardless, but Michael seems to be of limited use so if I don't use him for this it'll have been kind of a waste. And he's pretty difficult to skillup.

[Chaore]

Right, when I say "making it my next big project" most of what that entails is "skillmaxing everything". Except maybe Perseus himself because he seems unreasonably difficult to work with. Is that worth undertaking? It's probably a fairly long-term project at any rate.

Edit: Of the things I'd have to work on I think I definitely want Liu Bei maxed out someday regardless, but Michael seems to be of limited use so if I don't use him for this it'll have been kind of a waste. And he's pretty difficult to skillup.

Honnnestly still nah.

The setup feels really weak. Liu Bei especially- yeah he's got a row still, and some huge attack, but 10 turns cooldown is a bit much for heroes and he's not taking advantage of his triple prong.

Not bothering with Perseus also really makes it far weaker.

And honestly, not having the Ninja for your color makes me really wary of suggesting a Hero- It's hugely important to have two 5 turn cooldowns on them.

I'd pass super hard on the idea.

[commandercool]

Fair enough. I'll infinitely backburner Perseus, as I have been doing. He might get some play someday if I pull the right tools, but he doesn't quite go anywhere yet. I may end up doing a hero at some point, especially since my game plan so far this year is basically "stockpile as much as possible then go nuts on the first hero god festival" which means odds are I'm going to get at least one more.

Liu Bei himself may just be the next project actually, since there's a lot of crossover between that team and Athena. Although there might be too much crossover in that it might just be a second copy of my Athena team. I've got a stall team, I've got a combo team in progress, and I've got a spike team. Does that cover all of the major team type bases, or is there another major archetype I'm forgetting? I guess I don't have a developed full stall team, just a hybrid one, but I don't think I would use a true stall team very often and I'm not sure there's a ton it can do that Gabriel/Idunn can't.

Maybe an Egypt 2.0 bulky combo team or a Chinese team is the most different major thing I don't have, but I don't really have the pieces for either of those right now. Maybe I don't have a next project and I should just work on finishing the general-use utility subs (Odin, Chester, blue Hera) I have sitting around.

[hyorinryu]

Fun story. Demons got their orb-change sub-effect a long time ago when stall teams were still a big thing, Astaroth was the best demon because it's basically slower Luci but can deal with god binds.
So they intended demons to convert colours that don't collide with other existing orb changers, Astaroth can convert light or dark, but dark wouldn't make sense because of her being sub-dark, so she turned light. Then the complaints came, because it steals light orbs from Piedra which was her best and only heartmaker. They changed it to red because of this.
Fast forward to today, astaroth is godly member because of awakenings and cd shortening, and we green team players continue to suffer in regret. :v

I'll never know why Perseus only turns red and blue. That was dumb. I guess they hate green :V (but then liu bei happened which solved everything including the lack of dark->green)

Yeah, i was around when it happened. I was kinda with it too. Still am really. They should have made attacker Astaroth G/G and healer Astaroth G/D. That would probably be better for both parties. I have to wonder why Perseus doesn't do light or dark either. It's quite annoying.  I'd want Liu Bei more but he's on a longer cooldown than Meimei(seriously, wth.) They should have made Amitan do dark to green and fire to heal. That would have been nice.

You're welcome to ditch Meimei and
come to the I-want-verdandi-so-badly-;w; camp. :]

;---;

I'm not in the business of wanting specific gods, especially when their godfest exclusives. It rarely turns out well for me. I'm probably replacing her with Guan Yu once he's leveled. If I need a full boarder, I'll use Sonia. Cauchemar is worth looking at too.

Fair enough. I'll infinitely backburner Perseus, as I have been doing. He might get some play someday if I pull the right tools, but he doesn't quite go anywhere yet. I may end up doing a hero at some point, especially since my game plan so far this year is basically "stockpile as much as possible then go nuts on the first hero god festival" which means odds are I'm going to get at least one more.

Liu Bei himself may just be the next project actually, since there's a lot of crossover between that team and Athena. Although there might be too much crossover in that it might just be a second copy of my Athena team. I've got a stall team, I've got a combo team in progress, and I've got a spike team. Does that cover all of the major team type bases, or is there another major archetype I'm forgetting? I guess I don't have a developed full stall team, just a hybrid one, but I don't think I would use a true stall team very often and I'm not sure there's a ton it can do that Gabriel/Idunn can't.

Maybe an Egypt 2.0 bulky combo team or a Chinese team is the most different major thing I don't have, but I don't really have the pieces for either of those right now. Maybe I don't have a next project and I should just work on finishing the general-use utility subs (Odin, Chester, blue Hera) I have sitting around.

If you really want to Perseus, you can make a serviceable team using Cu Chu/Amitan/Hera-Beorc/Canopus. You can replace the last two with quite a few things as well, like Fafnir, Cauchemar, or Athena. If you have Genbu, you can use her too. Just know that risks that come with doing so.

[commandercool]

Just know that risks that come with doing so.

Every time I use her in an alt dungeon with Verche on cooldown I'm always worried that will happen. It never happens (in fact, I can't remember ever getting less than six of any color) but I know it could and that's worrying. Although my Athena team has a fairly heavy green streak, so at that point hopefully I'd have enough green I could make do.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Dumped two rounds, then a rank up, then three more rounds, then two stones worth of stamina into TAMADRA Retreat. Very good results:

BValk: fully awoken
UmiYama: fully awoken
FA Luci: fully awoken
Verche: fully awoken
Izanagi: fully awoken

With 6 TAMADRA and 10 babies left to spare for Orochi when I get him evolved, Reine once she's evolved, and Starling if her ult doesn't get awoken by her pre-evo form.

A productive use of two stones, I must say. Worth it.

[Thaws]

Yeah, i was around when it happened. I was kinda with it too. Still am really. They should have made attacker Astaroth G/G and healer Astaroth G/D. That would probably be better for both parties. I have to wonder why Perseus doesn't do light or dark either. It's quite annoying.  I'd want Liu Bei more but he's on a longer cooldown than Meimei(seriously, wth.) They should have made Amitan do dark to green and fire to heal. That would have been nice.

tbh it's not all bad, now we have a sub with high rcv and godly awakenings for Verdandi other than ADK for red->green. Other colours don't have that luxury.
The plain double greenmaker (Artemis) has 9cd which I assume is longer than colour+heart makers like Perseus because of burst capability. So it's fair Liu Bei is at 10cd because of the 3k rcv.
It's funny how bad Perseus/Sasuke/Meimei works together, when you consider that red,blue,dark's Hero/Ninja/ChinaGirl combinations pretty much have them perfectly match.
Amitan should get an uevo :< he helped me alot in my early days but his stat sucks so I don't really want to use him anymore but he's like my only viable green heartmaker dude.

[OverlordChirei]

I didn't think it was possible yet.

I was wrong.

So horribly wrong.



Best Leader In The Game. Forever.

[MatsuriSakuragi]

what really blows my mind is that you did it without any orb changers outside of Leilan herself. And Angelion too.

[OverlordChirei]

Don't need no changers when I swing for 12.25x ~7combo avg per turn ;V

[MatsuriSakuragi]

Pulseneedle time! I'm gonna go all-out and skill up Rei Sirius so he may be useful to me at some point. Already got one skillup on my first try~

[trancehime]

https://twitter.com/pad_sexy/status/559636451638247424

2nd Sun Quan UVO art. Confirmed to be Water/Light colors.

[OverlordChirei]

Coin Rotation 7 list up for North America. Of special note are the following:

-Shadow Sprite (For the 800 of you with Pandoras out there)
-Arboreal Encounter (If you didn't finish maxing Meimei last time)

-D O O D V I L L A G E

[Chaore]

-Arboreal Encounter (If you didn't finish maxing Meimei last time)

./rabbits screaming in the distance

[commandercool]

Wow, those are some good coin dungeons. Pretty exciting that that stuff can pop up so quickly after it just came out. Running it without 2x drops is going to be painful, but the option is good.

Regarding the alt dungeons, how I do those? I know Big Dog works as a leader, but I'm not exactly swimming in Big Dog friends. How do people usually do this with Athena friends?

Edit: Sun Quan lookin' good too. I hope the new art is for the sub version. Based on precedent it probably isn't, but that's cool too. I really like both of those arts. Neat.

[OverlordChirei]

Regarding the alt dungeons, how I do those? I know Big Dog works as a leader, but I'm not exactly swimming in Big Dog friends. How do people usually do this with Athena friends?

If you have Ultimate Rose, she is absolutely invaluable here as she restores the flat 3x boost an Athena would give, as the cost of being much offensively lower. You'll have to make up for this lost offense somehow using the extra slot - what that is is up to you. I've used Echidna.

[Chaore]

Regarding the alt dungeons, how I do those? I know Big Dog works as a leader, but I'm not exactly swimming in Big Dog friends. How do people usually do this with Athena friends?

Kill everything before it kills you. It's flat out rocket tag.

Athena works great as she gives you enough hp to take a hit and also will murder everything with low orb cost (four orbs, 12 kills.) with a flat bonus.

Don't be me and run with something like chokezume. You will cry at one point.

Team suggestions: Multiple orb changers to supply ammunition, and some punchy dudes with prongs. Verche and godvalk obv work well.

tbh it's not all bad, now we have a sub with high rcv and godly awakenings for Verdandi other than ADK for red->green. Other colours don't have that luxury.

tbh this only comes into play when subbing verdandi into row teams. Elize will often combo together much better with verdandi with a shorter cd and prongs.

ADK is also fairly desirable still just for his prong, much like Verche and Athena.

[commandercool]

If you have Ultimate Rose, she is absolutely invaluable here as she restores the flat 3x boost an Athena would give, as the cost of being much offensively lower. You'll have to make up for this lost offense somehow using the extra slot - what that is is up to you. I've used Echidna.

Ooh, perfect. Forgot about that change to her leader skill. I have quite a few of her as friends (being "the Valkyrie guy" I have a lot of Valkyrie friends who are usually useless to me) as well as my own. That should be more than enough to cover my runs between friend Roses and friend Athenas. I wish I had Godin or Ra finished now to take her spot when I switch her to leader duty, but I should be okay with Echidna. Thanks for the tip, I might not have ever thought to do that.

Kill everything before it kills you. It's flat out rocket tag.

Athena works great as she gives you enough hp to take a hit and also will murder everything with low orb cost (four orbs, 12 kills.) with a flat bonus.

Don't be me and run with something like chokezume. You will cry at one point.

Team suggestions: Multiple orb changers to supply ammunition, and some punchy dudes with prongs. Verche and godvalk obv work well.

Thanks, sorry, I should have been more clear on what I meant. I've been successfully farming alt dungeons with an Athena team (Athena/Rose/Verche/GZL/Meimei/Athena) for a while now. What I meant to ask was "How do Athena farm teams usually get around the no duplicates restriction?".

[OverlordChirei]

"How do Athena farm teams usually get around the no duplicates restriction?".

Also more interesting stuff just in case - might do a video with this just to show it's possible. I used Leilan in the leader slot before I had Ultimate Rose and I almost never died. So if you're particularly creative, you can use something else - but Rose (Or maybe even +297 Reine?) is a flat out better deal as the more you have to think, your chances of dying increase by that much more since you are sometimes your own worst enemy. If you're able to pop into the IRC at some point, I can tell you more maybe - all I do half the time I'm online is just ramble in there about this stuff anyway.

In other news, just beat Pulseneedle Mythical with farmable subs. Leilan too OP

[Jq1790]

Oh gods. Pulseneedle is here.

Time for me to cry as I try to skill Indra.

Edit:  Ooh, login number 450 today.

[Chaore]

Oh gods. Pulseneedle is here.

Time for me to cry as I try to skill Indra.

oh god damnit that's a thing too

someone send help

[Janitor Morgan]

Haven't tried Pulseneedle Mythical yet.



Because I'm pretty sure it'd eat this team alive, and even Legend was kind of pushing it because binds.

[Suikama]

dammit why are the earth dragons always the hardest while the other attributes are pushovers especially light

like earth insect holy shit 4 mil hp and ohkos any regular team while this bee just sprays useless honey everywhere