So, what exactly is the Touhou Fan-dumb, touhoufags, etc.

[Bias Bus]

Regardless, Ruro had a point of just creating something of our own, if we didn't like the fan-dumb, like...

Wait, is that still alive? I drew one picture, look away, turns into a whole project, look away again, and I never see much of it again.  :V

I dunno, I need someone to poke at me about it and I would have drawn sprites (even though I'm not too good at them). I place full blame on myself for not checking in on it more.

As far as creation goes, I do go out of my way to pull some quality fanstuff out of my head (notice it didn't come out my ass), sure it's not alot now, but I have plenty of ideas for what I plan to take on in the future. My rational side tells me this won't change a lick but I'm gonna do it anyway. As I said long ago in a thread I can't remember "It's a good thing I'm a writer/artist, otherwise I'd never find relief from all the shit Touhou fandumb throws at me."

I can easily say that if it wasn't for this sorta thing (and Shinki), I would have been cut my ties with Touhou (at least by this point). Oh and it's you guys too, for some reason, as much as I hate the Touhou fan community it's my buddies here that help me stay just a little longer.

[Vanishing Sock Puppet]

What about the untalented losers like me? :V

Read it, then get to scribblan!

As for the rest of the thread. I can agree that constant meme spewing like "Ha ha, old chap! Cirno a (9)" can get exasperating, along with some people constantly whining about Touhou being unplayable hard, but I've kinda learned how to ignore it. Besides, after playing Takkoman, not much can sway me from thinking the Touhou fanbase is actually one of the best ever.

[Azure Lazuline]

Every fanbase will have some good and some bad. The Touhou fanbase is huge, so it has more bad - but more good, too. It just depends on what side you look at.

[Tengukami]

I think it's also important to keep in mind that to someone out there, YOU are the problem with the Touhou fanbase. Whatever games are your favorites, whatever characters you cherish, even if you forsake all the memes, someone in the Touhou fanbase is pointing at your preferences and saying "This is what's wrong with Touhou fans. People who like ____. These guys are ruining Touhou." I think that's something to keep in mind when it comes to pointing fingers at what's wrong with Touhou fans.

And yeah, if you don't like what you see in the fanbase, you can change it through creativity. "But I can't draw nothing" is lame. This doesn't give you a license to bitch and moan. You can change the fanbase by example. Stop using the memes, create more canonical discussion, or - and I know this is a crazy idea here - stop raging over memes maybe? If you think a meme is dumb, you don't need to use it. Focus instead on what you like. Latching onto what makes you rage is what's sucking your enjoyment out of Touhou; not "fandumb".

[Hello Purvis]

I think it's also important to keep in mind that to someone out there, YOU are the problem with the Touhou fanbase. Whatever games are your favorites, whatever characters you cherish, even if you forsake all the memes, someone in the Touhou fanbase is pointing at your preferences and saying "This is what's wrong with Touhou fans. People who like ____. These guys are ruining Touhou." I think that's something to keep in mind when it comes to pointing fingers at what's wrong with Touhou fans.

And yeah, if you don't like what you see in the fanbase, you can change it through creativity. "But I can't draw nothing" is lame. This doesn't give you a license to bitch and moan. You can change the fanbase by example. Stop using the memes, create more canonical discussion, or - and I know this is a crazy idea here - stop raging over memes maybe? If you think a meme is dumb, you don't need to use it. Focus instead on what you like. Latching onto what makes you rage is what's sucking your enjoyment out of Touhou; not "fandumb".

Oh my god this is beautiful. Get into my thoughts and say them better than me more often.

[trancehime]

And to think today was the first time I actually whined about meme spam and I did so nowhere else. Not to mention I don't really spam Touhou memes at all unless it's me trying to make a point with satire or ad hominem kept in mind...

The irony is completely delicious. Really.

And yeah, if you don't like what you see in the fanbase, you can change it through creativity. "But I can't draw nothing" is lame. This doesn't give you a license to bitch and moan. You can change the fanbase by example.

Well said, if people actually bothered to follow people who showed example of good and reasonable behavior. Nah, "damn i sux at drawing" isn't really a good excuse for bitching and moaning, but it is undeniably a huge deterrent especially considering nobody ever bothers following example. In a world where everyone was reasonable and did what you said, I would never have felt like I was a worthless human being. Sadly, it doesn't work this way. It is really a shame. Oh well~ 

EDIT: Ironically, following by example happens very often in the real world. But we don't have this particular issue in the real world. And more often than not people follow BAD examples because it's the cool and in thing to do.

[Tengukami]

Trance, though, you make a lot of people happy on this board. Just being you has an influence.

[Phlegeth]

Latching onto what makes you rage is what's sucking your enjoyment out of Touhou; not "fandumb".

I love that line.  Both paragraphs were pretty spot on and better written of what I was thinking, but that line is great.  Those types are what annoys me the most.  I mean when I was looking through comics and fan arts and stuff you see it all the time.  People are generally quiet until a character/meme/etc shows up they don't like.  It just blows my mind how they can stay quiet for like 50+ strips and as soon as one of the something shows up, sure enough within the first couple of comments there he is.

And yeah, if you don't like what you see in the fanbase, you can change it through creativity. "But I can't draw nothing" is lame.

I like this part too.  I mean I can't write worth a damn, but it doesn't stop me.   :V

I approach it like I do everything else in life.  As long as its fun I'm going to keep doing it.  It goes for everything in fandom.  Even with a few bad commenters, looking at fan art and reading fan comics is still fun.  And occasionally you will find an actual conversation about said work.

And isn't that the reason ZUN made these games in the first place.  I read it off some site, so credibility is kind of low, but it sounds reasonable.  But I read that there wasn't any games out there he liked so it took it upon himself to make one.

[trancehime]

People are generally quiet until a character/meme/etc shows up they don't like.  It just blows my mind how they can stay quiet for like 50+ strips and as soon as one of the something shows up, sure enough within the first couple of comments there he is.

Have you ever thought about the possibility that perhaps these people were quiet because they were tolerating the existence of something they didn't like? Perhaps it was because they tried to ignore it, but because it became so prolific and widespread, it pushed them off the edge. It's not always like this situation... I only had a massive outburst earlier because someone provoked it. I don't regret it one bit, because I managed to release the feelings I have kept deep inside for the past two, three years.

[Vanishing Sock Puppet]

Damn, some in to edit my post and find an awesome piece of good internet writing. Good show!

And isn't that the reason ZUN made these games in the first place.  I read it off some site, so credibility is kind of low, but it sounds reasonable.  But I read that there wasn't any games out there he liked so it took it upon himself to make one.

I wouldn't be surprised. I started writing a fanfic (Not Touhou related) because there wasn't many that included a character I liked.

[Bias Bus]

stop raging over memes maybe? If you think a meme is dumb, you don't need to use it. Focus instead on what you like. Latching onto what makes you rage is what's sucking your enjoyment out of Touhou; not "fandumb".

I'm going to be honest with myself here; I really need to take a page from this. Just this right here.

It's going to be hard; not only because it's so widespread and a little hard to just ignore, but also because of my nature. I've always wondered how people can ignore the bullshit fanon likes to pump into Touhou alot, I just can't see how they can do it without wanting to utterly destroy the thing next to them in a vehemet fury. If I can figure that out for myself, then maybe I can go back to enjoying Touhou like I did long ago.

I won't forgive fanon for what it's done, but I can certainly try to forget it.

[stands2reason]

I don't really mind the "fan dumb". Incidentally, it was the constantly circulating fan art and annoying music remixes that eventually led to me finding out about the the Touhou project. So I'm not going to complain.

[Iryan]

And yeah, if you don't like what you see in the fanbase, you can change it through creativity. "But I can't draw nothing" is lame.

I really, really don't like the implications of this. The truth is that the majority of people are idiots if you have taste that is not commonly supported by the fandom (and strangely "original flavor" is apparently a nieche taste in touhou), you are screwed. You can try to contribute something, but a lot of people lack the artistic skills to make something of noteworthy quality. Even if you are capable, that doesn't magically make you have to wade through less of the stuff you hate when you are looking for the stuff you like, as you won't influence alot of people that way. They have their own tastes, and trying to actively change this taste is just as futile as them trying to get you to change yours. The position is worsened by the fact that the main meat of contributors doesn't care for the output of the Western fandom.
For once, Bananamatic has made a valid point.


To clarify my own position I will simply refer to a long post I made a while back in a topic that got locked very shortly after.

Bottomline:

I haet, but I don't try to raeg. I ignoar.

[Phlegeth]

I didn't mean it was a one contained incident.  I meant like in a long running thing like Tag Dream, every single time this character showed up he followed right behind post his disdain for her.  She doesn't show up for an arc or so and he's quiet.  Then suddenly she appears, she doesn't really have to do anything, but he'll still make a rude remark. 

I'm talking more about hatred for the characters than the memes or meme pushers.  But it's not just Touhou, everywhere I go I see such intense hatred for these fictional characters.  And it's not always shippers.  And they're fictional characters, why do people get so worked up?  It's great that something inspired so much passion, but why hate?

But the sad thing is, I think some of the hatred for these characters come from people over using thee memes.  I've seen it happen a couple of times.  Don't hate Sakuya, hate the morons who have be "witty" by commenting "HURF DURF looks like she has her PAD *KNIFE'D*"  You can physically slug that guy, you can't physically slug Sakuya.

[Tengukami]

It's going to be hard; not only because it's so widespread and a little hard to just ignore, but also because of my nature. I've always wondered how people can ignore the bullshit fanon likes to pump into Touhou alot, I just can't see how they can do it without wanting to utterly destroy the thing next to them in a vehemet fury. If I can figure that out for myself, then maybe I can go back to enjoying Touhou like I did long ago.

I think, for me anyway, part of it comes from just accepting the fact that in any given day in the Touhou-ish areas of the internet, you're going to run into a number of memes that you don't find enjoyable or interesting. Just accepting that this is going to happen, no matter what, I don't know, maybe that'll help? I'm just speaking from experience here, when the whole "aya = slut lol" thing was in full swing. I used to rage at it, and then I'd try the "calmly refute with canon" strategy. It happened anyway. So I just shrugged and said, "Screw it. Nothing I can do about it; might as well not fuel it with my rage, or let it get in the way of a series I enjoy."

[trancehime]

I'm talking more about hatred for the characters than the memes or meme pushers.  But it's not just Touhou, everywhere I go I see such intense hatred for these fictional characters.  And it's not always shippers.  And they're fictional characters, why do people get so worked up?  It's great that something inspired so much passion, but why hate?

Let me share a story with you: The reason why I dislike (to some people completely hate) Reimu. At least, the Windows incarnation of her. It is common knowledge that Reimu's role in the Touhou canon is to solve incidents, bust some caps and defeat herself some Youkai. This was evident in the PC-98 incarnation too. But what made the two Reimus different from one another? During the PC-98 era, Reimu seemed a lot more... cheery about what she did. While both Reimus didn't have many second thoughts about their line of work, the Windows one seemed far more... ruthless and, well, practically a bitch about it. I do not like Windows Reimu's personality very much. In fact, I despise people like that. This is why I channel my hate for such a person onto a fictional medium, because it's better than me actively seeking out a person like that and then mauling their face with a knife or a pair of scissors. Purvis told me that maybe it's because Windows Reimu got sick and tired of dealing with bullshit but that still doesn't justify her behavior to me.

People who don't like a character, regardless of whether it's a Touhou game or NOT (even in novels, you see people bitching about characters they don't like), will express their disdain in certain ways. In these cases, it happens to be a vehement hate that some people happen to find unsettling. I don't think these people should be lumped with the meme-spammers. They're from completely different sides of the spectrum.

I think, for me anyway, part of it comes from just accepting the fact that in any given day in the Touhou-ish areas of the internet, you're going to run into a number of memes that you don't find enjoyable or interesting.

I wish acceptance was that simple and easy for me. I'm a pretty spiteful person.

[Bias Bus]

I think, for me anyway, part of it comes from just accepting the fact that in any given day in the Touhou-ish areas of the internet, you're going to run into a number of memes that you don't find enjoyable or interesting. Just accepting that this is going to happen, no matter what, I don't know, maybe that'll help? I'm just speaking from experience here, when the whole "aya = slut lol" thing was in full swing. I used to rage at it, and then I'd try the "calmly refute with canon" strategy. It happened anyway. So I just shrugged and said, "Screw it. Nothing I can do about it; might as well not fuel it with my rage, or let it get in the way of a series I enjoy."

I wish acceptance was that simple and easy for me. I'm a pretty spiteful person.

Still, I'm going to try. Being a Shinkifag and getting the usual "PC-98 is dead" flak among other shit, doesn't seem to phase me anymore, so maybe it's not totally hopeless for me yet. We'll see...

[trancehime]

Still, I'm going to try. Being a Shinkifag and getting the usual "PC-98 is dead" flak among other shit, doesn't seem to phase me anymore, so maybe it's not totally hopeless for me yet. We'll see...

Probably not. I know I'm beyond repair, as I still rage about people that don't exist anymore - I used to receive a lot of flak for being a PC-98 purist. Not as much anymore, but I'd still bitch about it from time to time. I guess I can never really deal with these things, and it leads to my biased responses in this thread...

[Vanishing Sock Puppet]

I really, really don't like the implications of this. The truth is that the majority of people are idiots if you have taste that is not commonly supported by the fandom (and strangely "original flavor" is apparently a nieche taste in touhou), you are screwed.

And I really don't like the implications of this. Really, I think it's quite a bad excuse to not even try. There's a good deal of Western artist that have different styles as you say, but they can still find people who like their work. Doyora's a damn good example of just that, and I doubt Ragathol's style of drawing bares much similarity to Japanese works. Those two are quite popular, not because they pandered to people who like Japanese stuff only, but because they kept pumping out work.

You can try to contribute something, but a lot of people lack the artistic skills to make something of noteworthy quality.

Then they should learn how to draw better? I do realize that improving one?s artwork is a long and frustrating trek (One I?m in the middle of right now), but anybody can do it as long as they keep themselves motivated. Even then, one?s artwork doesn?t need to be realistic and  mechanically perfect to be likable. Take cookie for example, his figures are far from what can be considered ?correct human anatomy?, but his drawings are filled with so much life, charm and humor that they become outright lovable. You never know what kind of audience you can grab if you just try.

Even if you are capable, that doesn't magically make you have to wade through less of the stuff you hate when you are looking for the stuff you like, as you won't influence alot of people that way. They have their own tastes, and trying to actively change this taste is just as futile as them trying to get you to change yours.

As rude as this may sound: Welcome to the Internet! 90% of it is shit, here?s a shovel!

People wade through figurative mountains of shit all the time. That?s how people fin good stuff to begin with. This paragraph really reminds me of some users on 4chan?s /m/. They whine and bitch endlessly about how every show coming out recent is ?moeshit? then proudly admit that they don?t watch ANY new anime that comes out, and thus missing actually good shows. Hell, wading through shit is how I found Ennui Akadako?s Touhou comics, and they remain my absolute favorites.

The position is worsened by the fact that the main meat of contributors doesn't care for the output of the Western fandom.

I dunno about that, I here a good deal of positives about Western Touhou art. Hell, I get a good deal of positive comment on my scribbles as well, and I think most of it is poor (I?m my own worst critic and such). If you?re talking about the poor reception of Another Dream?that?s because that collection is indeed rather poor. If it was a Japanese comic, it?d still be considered poor. Then again, I have seen truckloads of Touhou art that can?t even be considered DevArt level on Danbooru?

My point is, if you don?t want to draw or write anything, that?s okay. Not everybody WANTS to draw and I have no problem with that. But the excuses you use here are just weak.

[Iryan]

You didn't read the post I linked to, did you?

And I really don't like the implications of this. Really, I think it's quite a bad excuse to not even try. There's a good deal of Western artist that have different styles as you say, but they can still find people who like their work. Doyora's a damn good example of just that, and I doubt Ragathol's style of drawing bares much similarity to Japanese works. Those two are quite popular, not because they pandered to people who like Japanese stuff only, but because they kept pumping out work.

So you think Ragathol and Doyora make bad work? No? Then read my post again.

Then they should learn how to draw better? I do realize that improving one?s artwork is a long and frustrating trek (One I?m in the middle of right now), but anybody can do it as long as they keep themselves motivated. Even then, one?s artwork doesn?t need to be realistic and  mechanically perfect to be likable. Take cookie for example, his figures are far from what can be considered ?correct human anatomy?, but his drawings are filled with so much life, charm and humor that they become outright lovable. You never know what kind of audience you can grab if you just try.

There are people who are much worse than that.
Also, you say yourself that you don't like the stuff you make. Yet you say that me trying to make stuff I like and failing would somehow increase the amount of stuff I like. If you do not mean to say this, then you misread my post.

As rude as this may sound: Welcome to the Internet! 90% of it is shit, here?s a shovel!

Way to be treat me as if I didn't know that even if that is precisely the point I was making. Why are we arguing?

People wade through figurative mountains of shit all the time. That?s how people fin good stuff to begin with. This paragraph really reminds me of some users on 4chan?s /m/. They whine and bitch endlessly about how every show coming out recent is ?moeshit? then proudly admit that they don?t watch ANY new anime that comes out, and thus missing actually good shows. Hell, wading through shit is how I found Ennui Akadako?s Touhou comics, and they remain my absolute favorites.

My whole position is that you need to accept (and stop ranting on) the fact that there is lots of stuff you hate.

I dunno about that, I here a good deal of positives about Western Touhou art. Hell, I get a good deal of positive comment on my scribbles as well, and I think most of it is poor (I?m my own worst critic and such). If you?re talking about the poor reception of Another Dream?that?s because that collection is indeed rather poor. If it was a Japanese comic, it?d still be considered poor. Then again, I have seen truckloads of Touhou art that can?t even be considered DevArt level on Danbooru?

Do these works have a major influence on the japanese touhou community? As far as I know, they don't.

My point is, if you don?t want to draw or write anything, that?s okay. Not everybody WANTS to draw and I have no problem with that.

Yet another point we can agree on.

But the excuses you use here are just weak.

Excuses for what?

Even if every person was capable of creating high-quality artwork, which seems to be the only point we disagree on, that still wouldn't adress my main point.

[Unassuming Squid]

I think it depends on how much they want to participate.

This summer, I started learning the piano for the sole purpose of arranging Touhou songs in such a way as to bring out my views of the character's personalities. I would stay at the piano for hours and hours every day, and it was a pain in the ass, but after two or three weeks I got good enough to arrange and play U.N. Owen Was Her?. After some more perseverance, I got down Onigashima of the Fairyland, even though I still mess up on it sometimes. Then I completed Doll Judgement, and now I'm working on Green Eyed Jealousy.

If you take a page from ZUN's book and do whatever you do for the love of it, then you'll be able to learn how to draw, or write fanfiction, or play the music. It all depends on how much you want to participate to the fandom. Maybe it won't have a major impact on the fandom, but someone, somewhere, will notice it and get other people to notice it, and maybe, just maybe, it'll slowly have an effect.

....sorry if that was convoluted. Lack of sleep.

[Iced Fairy]

I'm not sure if this is what your trying to state Iryan, but producing content isn't likely to change the fanbase, even if it's good content.  For example, ZUN himself couldn't break the Alice is a loser who has no friends meme, even after giving her the three fairies as friends.  From a changing the fanbase perspective, it doesn't matter if people look at your works, or even if they enjoy it, if it doesn't change what they produce.  For those of us on the western side it's even less likely our stuff will influence the fandom, as it has to get to Japan and get accepted there (something that will probably never happen with stuff like my writing).

I got into writing fiction in order to change the fanbase, but I've given up on that.  Now I'm just writing for fun and with the hope I'll change the minds of a few people.  That's enough for me.

[Iryan]

I'm not sure if this is what your trying to state Iryan, but producing content isn't likely to change the fanbase, even if it's good content.  For example, ZUN himself couldn't break the Alice is a loser who has no friends meme, even after giving her the three fairies as friends.  From a changing the fanbase perspective, it doesn't matter if people look at your works, or even if they enjoy it, if it doesn't change what they produce.  For those of us on the western side it's even less likely our stuff will influence the fandom, as it has to get to Japan and get accepted there (something that will probably never happen with stuff like my writing).

Exactly, thank you.

The one thing I disliked about Ammy's post was the (probably unintentional) implication that one can simply make his own stuff if one doesn't like the rest, and the problem will be solved.

For example, if there is a game series you like, but then the license is passed to another company, which then produces stuff I don't like, would I be expected to make my own game? No, I would not. Yes, this is pretty much what ZUN is doing, but most people aren't ZUN.  :derp:


And again, I am not saying that this makes it okay to flame the people who make the stuff you don't like or something, quite the opposite in fact.

[Vanishing Sock Puppet]

You didn't read the post I linked to, did you?

I did, though after I posted earlier, and I liked it alot. I thought it wa a very good explanation why many fanworks tick some people off.

So you think Ragathol and Doyora make bad work? No? Then read my post again.

And here we have the disconnect. I was mainly referring to how they draw the characters visually, not their written personalities. Even with Japanese artist, almost none of them draw the girls like ZUN does. That's what I picked up from you previous post, and why I responded the way I did. I tend to get overly passionate on the art subject and I started typing before I really thought it through. I responded to Bananmatic the same way.

There are people who are much worse than that.
Also, you say yourself that you don't like the stuff you make. Yet you say that me trying to make stuff I like and failing would somehow increase the amount of stuff I like. If you do not mean to say this, then you misread my post.

I really could have worded that better. What I meant was that as an artist, I?m never completely satisfied with what I draw. More than a few artists are like that. There are a good deal of drawings I?ve made that I actually like, though I?ll rarely admit it. It?s less of a case of  ?everything I do sucks? and more ?this can be a bit better?, If that makes any sense.

Do these works have a major influence on the japanese touhou community? As far as I know, they don't.

?Yukkuri Shiteitte Ne!? started as a set of ASCII pictures. Anything is possible.

Way to be treat me as if I didn't know that even if that is precisely the point I was making. Why are we arguing?

Because I?m apparently wearing the idiot cap today, and by golly I?m going to live up to what it implies!

But joking aside, I do have to apologize for jumping the gun like that. The art subject was something I?m passionate about and I ended up going off without really reading through the whole post.

[Alice★f]

I'm a Touhoufag

I'm addicted to the series, not the fanbase.

Seems like most Touhou fans list Touhou fans as their #1 hate for Touhou. They say 90% of the fans are morons or whatever. I'm just curious, where exactly do they see this raging retardation? Is it in the fan-art? The awful porn? The fanfiction writers?

I generally stick to just playing the fangames, and chatting on this board (though I pop in DS and poosh occasionally, I use this one more than those two combined X4 though..or something). Either way, I don't really see a whole bunch of idiocy regarding the fans in Touhou (Except I found those awful masturbate signatures on DS to be really dumb, but whatever).

What/where is the fan-dumb? What are they guilty of? Why the Hatate, err hate?

The porn is good, err, decent
Fan Fiction? Don't read it
The games? They're good, nostalgic and a total kick to the behind if you're new to shmups
The music? Splendid
The characters? Very deep and well-designed
99% female cast? Begging for Yuri, hence the shitload of porn.

But, that's all trivial.

Dedication of the fanbase to their series. Yes. All those Touhou arranges, all those Touhou drama CD's (fan fiction) all that Doujinshi, all that derivative content of Touhou.

There's always something for us, whether if it's the games of not. I am quite fortunate to have become tied to such a wonderful series. I've never seen such a fanbase so dedicated. I never cease to be amazed.

So haters? They're just jealous.

Haters hate Touhou most of the time because they don't know it well or because they've been exposed to it incorrectly. What are you going to do? It happens... *sigh*

Same with every other series.

"Oh, I thought Touhou was an eroge the first time I heard about it"
"Touhoufags get all anal when you ask them if it's an Anime"

[Unassuming Squid]

I'm a Touhoufag

I'm addicted to the series, not the fanbase.The porn is good, err, decent
Fan Fiction? Don't read it
The games? They're good, nostalgic and a total kick to the behind if you're new to shmups
The music? Splendid
The characters? Very deep and well-designed
99% female cast? Begging for Yuri, hence the shitload of porn.

But, that's all trivial.

Dedication of the fanbase to their series. Yes. All those Touhou arranges, all those Touhou drama CD's (fan fiction) all that Doujinshi, all that derivative content of Touhou.

There's always something for us, whether if it's the games of not. I am quite fortunate to have become tied to such a wonderful series. I've never seen such a fanbase so dedicated. I never cease to be amazed.

So haters? They're just jealous.

Haters hate Touhou most of the time because they don't know it well or because they've been exposed to it incorrectly. What are you going to do? It happens... *sigh*

Same with every other series.

"Oh, I thought Touhou was an eroge the first time I heard about it"
"Touhoufags get all anal when you ask them if it's an Anime"

*applause*

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Tengukami]

I wasn't implying 'just make something, problem solved' at all. I was pointing out a number of things to consider. First, that there are people out there who think your tastes are what is wrong with the fandom, so try to accept that tastes vary. Second, that raging or complaining won't change anything, but not using tired memes, adding good discussion, and also, yes, creating are good ways to do your part if you want to see change; by being that change. And lastly, that shifting your focus from your dislikes to your likes also helps.

There's no one answer, just lots of little ones. Hope you understand my point better now.

[Hello Purvis]

<----Ain't gotta be an artist to alter people's viewpoints.

(Also Tsundere Aliace has some canon support. IN stage one, she's got it or something like it pretty good. You just gotta remind people she also tells Marisa to say "Bitch get of the way!" and has +5 Shitkickers of Annihilation and stuff)

[Drake]

oh wow. a character with a name who owns a shop. I APOLOGIZE!!!! also: unexplored?! that's not a really good reason at all. If it's still unexplored, then EXPLORE IT! The only reason Rinnosuke and Youki exist is so that people don't say the things that I said. I'm talking about an important, not dead, in a touhou game, male character.(also, just because I type in all caps doesn't always mean I'm angry. It just means that that particular bit is a little 'louder' than the rest)

...fuck now people are going to percieve me as a whiny bitch like everyone else does... damn I gotta stop posting late at night.

also: I know aout the shota dragon project, but it's a shame its not canon.

and saying unzan was important is like saying that rinnosuke is important. face it, he isn't. (although unzan can fight with his big ass fists)

fuckshitpissballs


Also, I do get what Green is saying, but it isn't like everyone who hates Touhou is hating it for a wrong reason, and to say they're all "jealous" is pretty conceited. Touhou isn't some perfect series that everyone should love, there are many, many legitimate reasons to not want to be a part of it. Especially "being exposed to it incorrectly". If people get annoyed by Touhou because of how much it get spammed on unrelated things by "touhoufags" (which it does, a hell of a lot), I sure as hell would get annoyed by it too and not want anything to do with it.

Touhou seems to be that kind of series where it brings the most pushiness out of its fans that I have ever seen.

[Janitor Morgan]

Let me share a story with you: The reason why I dislike (to some people completely hate) Reimu. At least, the Windows incarnation of her. It is common knowledge that Reimu's role in the Touhou canon is to solve incidents, bust some caps and defeat herself some Youkai. This was evident in the PC-98 incarnation too. But what made the two Reimus different from one another? During the PC-98 era, Reimu seemed a lot more... cheery about what she did. While both Reimus didn't have many second thoughts about their line of work, the Windows one seemed far more... ruthless and, well, practically a bitch about it. I do not like Windows Reimu's personality very much. In fact, I despise people like that.

I haven't played the PC-98 games, so I can't comment on that version of Reimu, but I can definitely see what you mean about the Windows version.

Personally, I try to look for the good in both sides of the equation. While canon material is the basis for general information about a series, fanon material can sometimes expose possibilities for why the canon material is the way it is. Sure, there are some memes and things I could live without, but for the most part, I enjoy how the fandom explores the given canon material.