Minecraft Server! (IMPORTANT POLL VOTE NOW)

[Stuffman]

... This may be a bit drastic, and this is just hypothetically speaking, but, what about the possibility of moving to a new server? Can anyone think of a solid, detailed list of the pros and cons? I'm about to collapse in bed, so I'm not up to that whole "thinking" thing right now.

I am considering starting a new whitelisted server for MotK members only. It's just a question if you guys are willing to start from scratch :/

[DX7.EP]

I am considering starting a new whitelisted server for MotK members only. It's just a question if you guys are willing to start from scratch :/

Strafe and I did briefly discuss this idea earlier today, and we're increasingly considering it. I highly approve of this idea, personally, despite the restarts, provided that:
 - Everyone gets the powers of MotK group
 - The server remains 90% Vanilla (same plugins as what this current servers use - giants and Multiverse are all we need for gameplay enhancements IMO)
 - 4 Mods (from regular playerbase) and 1-2 admins (from the mod pool) are chosen by community again to refresh the staff list. By hosting the server, you should have (or configured it to let you have) Op powers, which are above admins.
 - Same or better server specs and uptime (24-7, 3GB RAM, 50 players limit)
 - Put a password on the server as well and have the IP broadcast only via PMs. Don't even put it on public, ignore the server stats banner, and forget about livefeeds (those have same IP but different port).
 - Giants drop 2-3 diamond rather than 1 to increase the incentive

If DDR doesn't respond to this within the end of the week AND does not change permissions for us mods to allow bans and whatnot (or if something peculiar occurs), I think we are OK to proceed with this.

[Stuffman]

- Same or better server specs and uptime (24-7, 3GB RAM, 50 players limit)

Uh...I can't afford the 3 GB setup. Nevermind then :|

[DX7.EP]

Uh...I can't afford the 3 GB setup. Nevermind then :|

...well, the maximum you can afford is fine then (even 1GB did well, though Nether lagged a lot) :3
I think the 3GB RAM upgrade was due to Multiverse, though, and we're already busy enough in main world, so....

EDIT: About time. DDR made a quick visit to the server, but very brief and to Sphere. No idea why but it seems he's about to do something about this.

[Stuffman]

1 GB is what I was looking at.

Anyway if I wind up being the admin, do note that I'm going to insist on things being done legit. I'm not going to allow flying or handing out free blocks (except maybe brick because I like brick and it's impossible to gather in any large quantity :V )

I don't even intend to have giants at all, I think having an unlimited source of diamonds is stupid.

I would have /sethome and /spawn (with the community house there) but no /back. No /warp, I'd rather see people come up with interesting infrastructure projects like bridges and subways and stuff for getting around.

[DX7.EP]

1 GB is what I was looking at.

Cool.

Anyway if I wind up being the admin, do note that I'm going to insist on things being done legit. I'm not going to allow flying or handing out free blocks (except maybe brick because I like brick and it's impossible to gather in any large quantity :V )

AH. Well, I'd at least let mods and admins have those powers, especially for massive projects (looks at subway system for personal example - it would take 5000x longer if all the work was manual) and specific situations.
Of course, we are obliged to use our powers for the community and not personal projects *looks at PX's contraptions*. And also, we should try to not give away items.

I don't even intend to have giants at all, I think having an unlimited source of diamonds is stupid.

I'm cool with that. Or just have them drop something less valuable. Or have them...drop bricks. :V

I would have /sethome and /spawn (with the community house there) but no /back. No /warp, I'd rather see people come up with interesting infrastructure projects like bridges and subways and stuff for getting around.

You've seen the massive subway project we've done, right? In that case expect more of those.

[HakureiSM]

You've seen the massive subway project we've done,

We as in you and WE, right? :V
Though I do love that subway.

[DX7.EP]

We as in you and WE, right? :V
Though I do love that subway.

No. That mega-rail was a joint collab. Strafe and I did the WE and tracks, while EternitySky and Rukin dug the leading tunnels from which WE could then be used to clear the rest.

And it seems this idea is picking up ground. We need to put up a feature list we want to see. And even though you may be insistent on 99% vanilla, Stuffman, I think 90-94% is a good value since that's what we're used to  (4% giants, 4% Mutliverse, 2% commands we can use)

[Romantique Tp]

I want to try this game. Where do I start ?

[Stuffman]

If you guys really want giants running around terrorizing shit I'd be okay with it, they just won't be dropping anything as ludicrous as diamond blocks.

Multiverse might not be feasible without a higher-end server. I'd be willing to run tests though.

[DX7.EP]

I want to try this game. Where do I start ?

Buy game, join our server, and a mod should help you out and find you a spot to get ready!
I'd highly recommend a bit of experience in single-player though, just so you get the basics of MC survival.

If you guys really want giants running around terrorizing shit I'd be okay with it, they just won't be dropping anything as ludicrous as diamond blocks.

That's why I suggested that giants drop many brick blocks.
And the current ones drop single diamonds, since blocks were quickly proving to be too good of a reward when giants were first around.

Multiverse might not be feasible without a higher-end server. I'd be willing to run tests though.

We may not even need it yet since we'd all be starting fresh and would thus have to start with developing main world first.

Also, this is a perfect way to get a new all-inclusive communal town going as we seemed to want several weeks ago before all this mess began.
I think others, such as Strafe (going by MC chat implications), expressed interest in footing the bill for the full server and hosting as well. Now as for who will finally do that, we'll see and decide (likely on what the server will contain).

[HakureiSM]

I want to try this game. Where do I start ?

Buy it here, download it and either play SP for a bit and then join us on the server or jump right into the server, but the latter will probably be hella confusing.

[Stuffman]

Also, this is a perfect way to get a new all-inclusive communal town going as we seemed to want several weeks ago before all this mess began.
I think others, such as Strafe (going by MC chat implications), expressed interest in footing the bill for the full server and hosting as well. Now as for who will finally do that, we'll see and decide (likely on what the server will contain).

If Strafe is interested in starting the server I'd have no problem with playing on his as long as you guys don't go crazy with handing out free stuff or handing out mod powers to people that will screw around with them. Maybe it'd be better that way, as I have little knowledge of Minecraft modding, I just want to start playing again but I think DDR's server is unsalvageable.

[DX7.EP]

If Strafe is interested in starting the server I'd have no problem with playing on his as long as you guys don't go crazy with handing out free stuff or handing out mod powers to people that will screw around with them. Maybe it'd be better that way, as I have little knowledge of Minecraft modding, I just want to start playing again but I think DDR's server is unsalvageable.

Yeah, we're not like that. Don't expect stacked diamond crap in public chests, for one. :3

I am beginning to agree on the last point.

If we do make a new server, I have a rather comprehensive playerlist (most of whom are cross-linked with MotK and MC) that I can PM to the Op to add to the whitelist.

[Eraiya]

I'm a bit late due to my sleeping schedule, but if anyone here did host a server, could we at least expect to see PTM, BB, LWC, WE and WG used? To be honest, vanilla servers are a dime a dozen, so I'm not that fond of the idea of playing on one when there are literally thousands upon thousands more out there that are also available, not to mention hundreds with mods and plugins designed to make the game more entertaining. However, since I'm probably the minority here, I recognize that I'll just have to deal with it if I'd like to continue playing with and helping you guys.

Master Bigode - Let me know if you haven't bought the game yet. I have a spare, paid account I'm fine with letting you use for as long as you'd like.

[DX7.EP]

I'm a bit late due to my sleeping schedule, but if anyone here did host a server, could we at least expect to see PTM, BB, LWC, WE and WG used? To be honest, vanilla servers are a dime a dozen, so I'm not that fond of the idea of playing on one when there are literally thousands upon thousands more out there that are also available, not to mention hundreds with mods and plugins designed to make the game more entertaining. However, since I'm probably the minority here, I recognize that I'll just have to deal with it if I'd like to continue playing with and helping you guys.

Ah. Those plugins are very important IMO, so I'd definitely keep them in.

I guess you're trying to see for a gimmick this server will have. Hm...that's tough, since most of us have gotten accustomed to 90% Vanilla by now.

[Eraiya]

I geso, but not to any extreme degree. To me, the biggest factors that determine how much fun you can get out of it are:

* Security. Is the owner willing to take the fifteen to thirty minutes to download, install and configure a few plugins to keep griefing to an absolute, bare minimum? Is the owner willing to trust his/her moderators/administrators with enough commands like /kick and /ban that they can act on the owner's behalf in protecting the server while he's/she's not around?

* Playerbase. Will I be playing with a bunch of strangers or people I've known for months? Whether strangers or not, what are they like? Easy to get along with, or do you really have to put some effort into it? What if everyone on the server is a lovely person, but whenever you log on, you're always the only one there? They can be some of the best people in the world to you, but that doesn't mean much if they're never there!

* Server configuration. Does the server owner prefer an absolutely vanilla experience, more plugins than he/she can hold with both hands or somewhere in-between? Does the owner have allowflying set to true or false in the server's config.txt? How does the owner feel about PvP? Will the server be able to handle ten people online, some in the main world while others are exploring the Nether without so much as a hint of lag?

* Terrain. Much like vanilla servers, open, grassy areas with trees, lakes and caves are unbelievably common. When I play, I really like to be immersed in the experience, and exploring unnatural landscapes that you'd almost certainly never see- deserts, oceans and tundras that stretch on for tens of thousands of blocks in every direction, for example- without the use of a plugin like the Phoenix Terrain Mod is a huge draw for me.

* Clientside mods. How comfortable is the owner of the server with allowing users the ability to fly and other such things which aren't normally possible without downloading and installing mods like zombe's modpack? For every server where the owner's fine with people flying on his/her server, there's at least nine that aren't, so again, this is a very big "pro" to me in a list of pros and cons. Freedom of movement is a very wonderful thing!

Because of what I look for in a server, vanilla servers have never really held any meaningful reasons for me to join up, the only exception to that being friends wanting me to come along to lend a hand, or wanting to come along of my own volition for the same reason. It's just knowing, "Well, yeah, I could play on this vanilla server, but... Why, when there are several hundreds of other servers out there that would appeal much more strongly to me?"

[Romantique Tp]

Master Bigode - Let me know if you haven't bought the game yet. I have a spare, paid account I'm fine with letting you use for as long as you'd like.

Cool. PM me.

[Dr.Strafe]

I am considering starting a new whitelisted server for MotK members only. It's just a question if you guys are willing to start from scratch :/

I'm perfectly fine with this idea if it ever comes down to this. I've started over from scratch many times, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

As far as pricing goes, I'd be more than willing to help pay for the server.

As far as addons are concerned, we can keep things as vanilla as you want them to be. With a controlled usergroup, we would probably not have any need for BB, or LWC. Although, the peace of mind that those provide is worth the time to set up. Having WorldEdit is purely optional.. (goodbye compass  )

Giants have lost their appeal to me. They tend to pop up and fry you when you least want them to. That, and it gets old having to explain their existence to EVERY player that freaks out when they see one. Totally agree on the "unlimited diamond" thoughts.

I also agree with Stuffman's thoughts on "handing out free stuff". I'm perfectly fine helping newbies get started with minimal risk, but I don't want to be their main supplier. Yes, I know about the hypocrisy of the current UFO. I've had conflicting thoughts about this, because having such a large supply of stuff readily available really hurts the "sense of accomplishment" of finding all the supplies yourself. *sigh* Tragedy of Commons, indeed...


Stuffman, feel free to PM me if you want to get the ball rolling on this.

[Stuffman]

Alright Strafe, I'm gonna start doing some research on this and we'll talk about how much you'd be willing to contribute.

I like the aesthetics of phoenix mod worlds but the issue I have with them is that there's no flat space for actually building stuff! So if we had a good enough server my idea would be to have one normal world and one phoenix world.

Eraiya, it sounds like you've been on a lot of servers, can you recommend any services besides Servercraft? Apparently they have a pretty bad track record. (Also I'm probably gonna need your help getting everything working properly)

[DX7.EP]

As far as addons are concerned, we can keep things as vanilla as you want them to be. With a controlled usergroup, we would probably not have any need for BB, or LWC. Although, the peace of mind that those provide is worth the time to set up. Having WorldEdit is purely optional.. (goodbye compass  )

It'd be nice to at least have the option. As well as /item for mods/admins (namely for stuff that is hard to craft or make such as brick and rail).
As for WorldEdit, it did make the subway significantly easier to dig out and is handy for adjusting terrain (Hakurei Shrine is on WE-modded mountains) but I'm willing to part with it. I don't mind digging it all out manually, but I do mind having to craft all that rail...takes far too much iron normally.

Giants have lost their appeal to me. They tend to pop up and fry you when you least want them to. That, and it gets old having to explain their existence to EVERY player that freaks out when they see one. Totally agree on the "unlimited diamond" thoughts.

...come to think of it, this is an issue. They do spawn more than I like.

Looking forward to developments from either of you on this!

[Eraiya]

I like the aesthetics of phoenix mod worlds but the issue I have with them is that there's no flat space for actually building stuff! So if we had a good enough server my idea would be to have one normal world and one phoenix world.

Oh, but that's the beauty of it- since you get to configure each and every aspect of the terrain generation, if you want there to be large, open spaces: you've got it! It's just a matter of messing around with all the different variables to see what you enjoy most! Luckily for you, to help save you a great deal of thyme, I have one fantastic setup that I think you'll like, right here!

<Biome Mod - All Biome Variables>
biomeSize:32
minMoisture:0.0
maxMoisture:0.0
minTemperature:1.0
maxTemperature:2.0
snowThreshold:-.1
iceThreshold:-.1


<Biome Mod - Desert Biome Variables>
waterlessDeserts:true
removeSurfaceDirtFromDesert:true
desertDirt:false
desertDirtFrequency:0


<Terrain Mod - Terrain Variables>
waterLevel:64
maxAverageHeight:4.0
maxAverageDepth:4.0
fractureHorizontal:-0.33
fractureVertical:1.0
volatility1:0.0
volatility2:0.0
volatilityWeight1:0.5
volatilityWeight2:0.45

When given this, I was told, "Everything else is just stock, enjoy." and I have every reason to trust this person. The landscape was a large, flat desert with towering plateaus dotting the landscape; those were the only areas which weren't flat, and they were marvelous. Just because of the terrain itself, it was, hands-down, the server I've had the most fun on by far. I didn't know any of the players, there was no security from things like BB and it was a "hardcore survival/pvp" server; all of those things, I dislike. But the terrain was so incredible to me, I actually loved the server, despite disliking all those other aspects of it!

Eraiya, it sounds like you've been on a lot of servers, can you recommend any services besides Servercraft? Apparently they have a pretty bad track record. (Also I'm probably gonna need your help getting everything working properly)

According to many reliable sources, BroHoster used to be good, up until a couple of weeks ago when they essentially cleaned house, replacing a great deal of employees that were responsible for making BroHoster as great as they were, PR-wise. In their place, one friend recommended these guys, Host Ladder, as an even better alternative. Their prices are $30.00 a month compared to BroHoster's $24.00 a month, though, for a server with 1 gb of ram, so if you don't think customer service will be an issue, BroHoster might be the way to go, just for their prices!

Edit: But since that's recommended for twenty players, and the usual maximum seems to hover around eight players on the current MotK server- and that's including the griefers being logged on!- a server that's recommended for ten people being logged on simultaneously would probably be a much better choice, money-wise. $12.00 monthly from BroHoster, $20.00 monthly from Host Ladder.

[DX7.EP]

I've occasionally seen 10-12 players with griefers included. And if by chance this community (which is, what, 25-35 accounts?) tries a mass event the playerlimit may be a hindrance....
How about 20-25 players maximum for now?

[Dr.Strafe]

I have no problem paying for a server for 50 players. We might not ever have THAT many people online at the same time, but it wouldn't hurt to have the extra slots available.

[HakureiSM]

Plus, in another server where mods have actual powers, enforcing anti-griefing measures should be a lot easier, so we could filter the public better

I'd love a world with more people on, our current is way too vast for 5-10 people to be playing with it

[DX7.EP]

Plus, in another server where mods have actual powers, enforcing anti-griefing measures should be a lot easier, so we could filter the public better

If we have a whitelist we won't need to filter the public as much! Though spawn jails are already effective to dissuade most casual griefers.

I'd love a world with more people on, our current is way too vast for 5-10 people to be playing with it

Nah, we're just spread too far out.
if there was a new world, we'd prolly build closer and remake the village with everyone (or most everyone) living in that.

[Stuffman]

I'm messing around with a test server on my own PC, learning how the plugins work, etc.

Alright so right now the plugin list looks like:
- Essentials
- LWC
- BB
- dynmap
- WorldEdit (for admins to fix things)

I'll see about getting a world made with PTM once their site is back up (apparently there'll be a new release soon)

Any other requests for plugins to look at? Also do I need some kind of plugin to make the Nether work properly, I've heard Notch's doesn't.

[EternitySky]

i'd also suggest making the village a safe haven so no monsters spawn in it....

before i mde the floating house in old spawn, my ccobble house kept getting creeper'd when i'm not there ;[

[Eraiya]

On second thought, Theep's probably right about paying a bit more for 20 recommended players instead of 10, and it's an unbelievably kind thing of Strafe to be willing to pay for this.

Kagami raises an interesting point! Building closer together could definitely help provide a stronger sense of unity/community. I never thought I'd suggest this plugin since I've always been against it, but in this case:
how about BorderGuard?

Edit: No need to get any plugins to make the Nether work anymore. After over two hundred days, Notch finally fixed it!

[Jes_Isaive]

So we would actually have a village/city/whathaveyou, as opposed to everyone being everywhere? Cool.