Maribel Quest Followthrough - A Z-Machine Adventure

[Hello Purvis]

>"She might still be stronger than usual in the evening, especially if the fight drags on... I think it'd be safer to hold off the main assault until daytime tomorrow, if you can manage it. More time to fine-tune that secret weapon and make sure you have the advantage."
>And for us to have time to get the advantage against you. Oh god, this is going to hurt...

>"Maybe. It depends how long she's going to take. I want to do it today, but...yeah, it's looking less likely, isn't it?"
>It may hurt indeed. Especially if that course costs you your humanity.

>_

[communist unity (comm-unity)]

> "Yeah, I was thinking that you'd probably have better chances if you attacked them early on tomorrow, instead of tonight. It would also allow the fairies to rest up and prepare for it, haven't they been partying and dancing a lot today? They might get tired."

[Hello Purvis]

> "Yeah, I was thinking that you'd probably have better chances if you attacked them early on tomorrow, instead of tonight. It would also allow the fairies to rest up and prepare for it, haven't they been partying and dancing a lot today? They might get tired."

>"Might do, might do..." She sits up and looks at you, frowning slightly. "And, why are you interested, all of a sudden? I thought you didn't want anything to do with it."

>_

[DracoOmega]

Personally, if we're looking at the angle to best preserve our friendship after this is all over, I think pretending to be on her side (to gather information and delay her, ect.) until the moment we try to stop her  is more likely to be seen as a betrayal of trust than simply being up front about the fact that we don't approve. At this point, she's about to return, anyway, so we don't need to worry about 'driving her off' by us pointing about the whole moral issue again.

[E-Nazrin]

Suggestion:

"I don't want you hurt, Renko. And while I... I honestly don't think I approve of what you're planning to do, it's not my right to tell you to stop. It sounds like your mind is made up."

Stopping you because you're not yourself at the moment, on the other hand...

[Doll.S CUBE]

Isn't that lying? You do know there be consequences if she isn't under an influence if you lie to her right?

How about this:

> "Renko..I..I really don't approve of what your doing but I also don't want you to get hurt, this is why I'm telling you this, you could get really hurt you know" Sad face.

[DracoOmega]

I don't think we can go with the 'you might get hurt' angle, since she's repeatedly demonstrated that she'd certain it will work. And it quite possibly might. Rather the issue is that, whether it would work or not, it's wrong. My personal thought is something more like this:

>"Renko, you know how much you mean to me, but... no matter how much you think the rules have changed here, I still don't think it's right to take someone else's property and home like this. Those people are still people; that much hasn't changed, even in Gensokyo. Are you sure you want to do this to them?"

[E-Nazrin]

I think Draco wins this one.

[Kilgamayan]

In addition to the above ideas, how about:

> "Besides, we just got here. If you intend on staying here, do you really want to introduce yourself to the rest of Gensokyo by kicking someone out of their house and claiming it for your own? That's not going to make you very many friends or earn you a lot of trust."

[Doll.S CUBE]

I think Draco wins this one.

Yeah, but still add the sad face to the end of Draco's speech.

[Blitzer]

In addition to the above ideas, how about:

> "Besides, we just got here. If you intend on staying here, do you really want to introduce yourself to the rest of Gensokyo by kicking someone out of their house and claiming it for your own? That's not going to make you very many friends or earn you a lot of trust."

>She'll probably respond that she's got the fairies, but still do this.

[E-Nazrin]

>She'll probably respond that she's got the fairies, but still do this.

It isn't going to earn the fairies many friends, either.

[Hello Purvis]

>"Renko, you know how much you mean to me, but... no matter how much you think the rules have changed here, I still don't think it's right to take someone else's property and home like this. Those people are still people; that much hasn't changed, even in Gensokyo. Are you sure you want to do this to them?"

> "Besides, we just got here. If you intend on staying here, do you really want to introduce yourself to the rest of Gensokyo by kicking someone out of their house and claiming it for your own? That's not going to make you very many friends or earn you a lot of trust."

>Her face falters a little. "Does...it really bother you that much? Why?"

>_

[DracoOmega]

>"For exactly the reason I said, Renko. A few days ago, would you have broken into someone's house with a gang, and taken all their stuff? This isn't really much different."

[Serela]

>"Well, how would you feel if someone you didn't even know suddenly tried to steal YOUR house just because they felt like it? It doesn't help that some of the people living there can't even go in the sunlight, a normal house would leave them cooped up in a room all day. And Patchouli would lose her library, and they'd lose all _{or at least many} of their other belongings as well..."
>Shake your head sadly. "It's simply not right."

[E-Nazrin]

>Hold for a moment instead. Think about how to phrase this.

I don't think she's going to accept "it's wrong" or pleas for sympathy that easily. We need a more valid angle about why this is wrong for her own interests, and the fairies'.

[DracoOmega]

Do we? It's not about practical benefit or detriment. It's about right and wrong. Arguing for the first does not say anything about the latter.

And I agree, she probably won't accept that it's 'wrong', but that lack of acceptance is itself important in the end. It's asking her point-blank about her principles, or lack thereof.

Even if we convince her of anything with the other angle, it's no real victory. Getting her to stop because it's 'impractical' isn't good enough.

[Kilgamayan]

Oh boy quad ninja by philosophy. I bet this is going to get ripped to shreds, but I'll throw it out there anyway.

> "In the short time I've been here, I've been all over Gensokyo, talking to so many different people, learning so many different things. There are a lot of really good people here, Renko, including some that have spent time with, have earned the respect of, and even sympathize with fairies. I could even introduce you to some pretty easily. I've done things for various people, and they've done things for me, sometimes without even asking me for anything in return. It's been really great. It's...home, I would even say. You don't need to knock over a house to have fun and live a good life here. Gensokyo is ripe for rewarding altruism. We can be good people and mean something here."
> "If you went ahead with this plan, though? Sure, you might gain a mansion, but you'd be losing your opportunity at all that. It's not going to take long for the rest of Gensokyo to want nothing to do with you, either out of disgust, or out of fear. Is that the kind of person you want to be? I...I know I can't be that person, not after seeing how rewarding my path can be, and I don't want to see you become that kind of person, either. I don't want you to take all I know you could do...all we could do and just throw it away. Is this really what you want? For the rest of Gensokyo to see you as a thief and a bully, as someone worthy of derision and scorn instead of friendship and trust?"

[E-Nazrin]

Do we? It's not about practical benefit or detriment. It's about right and wrong. Arguing for the first does not say anything about the latter.

She's thinking in those selfish terms right now. If we can express it that way, it'd work best. Purvis will probably hate me for bringing up evolutionary psychology, but there's traces of something to work with along those lines. Something like being on good terms with the SDM's residents possibly/ultimately being better for her and the fairies than driving them out, if only in the long run.

Grand theft - all war's good for.

And I agree, she probably won't accept that it's 'wrong', but that lack of acceptance is itself important in the end. It's asking her point-blank about her principles, or lack thereof.

Even if we convince her of anything with the other angle, it's no real victory. Getting her to stop because it's 'impractical' isn't good enough.

This is a valid point, but bringing up the faults in her actions in more subtle ways to inspire doubt and thought before properly confronting about it might work better - it could put our argument in a better position, even in her mind. On the other hand, we covered that much on the way down, to a certain extent.

What we haven't touched on yet is how she might be manipulating the fairies to her own ends herself, which isn't much different from the SDM... but let's save that until it's reasonably relevant. Oh, and she's getting biased accounts if she's only been speaking with the fairies and her benefactor. Again, even if physics is broke, the scientific method might not be. And they've both worked with that.

Will edit after reading Kilga's suggestion properly Which covers the most of this quite handily.

[Kilgamayan]

What we haven't touched on yet is how she might be manipulating the fairies to her own ends herself, which isn't much different from the SDM... but let's save that until it's reasonably relevant.

This is true but the obvious response is "I have every intention of treating them better than the mansion people treat them" which we can't really argue and is quite possibly true anyway. A better approach might be calling her benefactor's stance on fairies into question, as she's on record as not wanting to deal with them if she can avoid it.

[Hello Purvis]

>"For exactly the reason I said, Renko. A few days ago, would you have broken into someone's house with a gang, and taken all their stuff? This isn't really much different."

>"The whole world's different, Mary," she says.

>"Well, how would you feel if someone you didn't even know suddenly tried to steal YOUR house just because they felt like it? It doesn't help that some of the people living there can't even go in the sunlight, a normal house would leave them cooped up in a room all day. And Patchouli would lose her library, and they'd lose all _{or at least many} of their other belongings as well..."
>Shake your head sadly. "It's simply not right."

>She doesn't say anything.

>Hold for a moment instead. Think about how to phrase this.

>You pause for a moment. It is a painful silence.

> "In the short time I've been here, I've been all over Gensokyo, talking to so many different people, learning so many different things. There are a lot of really good people here, Renko, including some that have spent time with, have earned the respect of, and even sympathize with fairies. I could even introduce you to some pretty easily. I've done things for various people, and they've done things for me, sometimes without even asking me for anything in return. It's been really great. It's...home, I would even say. You don't need to knock over a house to have fun and live a good life here. Gensokyo is ripe for rewarding altruism. We can be good people and mean something here."
> "If you went ahead with this plan, though? Sure, you might gain a mansion, but you'd be losing your opportunity at all that. It's not going to take long for the rest of Gensokyo to want nothing to do with you, either out of disgust, or out of fear. Is that the kind of person you want to be? I...I know I can't be that person, not after seeing how rewarding my path can be, and I don't want to see you become that kind of person, either. I don't want you to take all I know you could do...all we could do and just throw it away. Is this really what you want? For the rest of Gensokyo to see you as a thief and a bully, as someone worthy of derision and scorn instead of friendship and trust?"

>"To be honest?" she says, "Conquering a mansion is nothing. You know the vampire in there? She tried to cause a nuclear winter once, because she didn't like the sunlight. I don't think people are going to hold it against me for long. Gensokyo's forgiven a lot more than me. I have to do this, Mary. I have to make it work. And it will work. Even if I lose it the next day, no one can take that from me."

>_

[E-Nazrin]

> "And what about this world being different means common decency no longer applies?"

>Might want to hold this. She seems a little upset already.

>"Then why DO you have to do this, Renko? I'm not sure I understand."

[Serela]

why did Renko's latest response have to make so much fucking sense ):

[Kilgamayan]

Yeah, I deleted it for that reason. What about this instead?

> "So...you only want to knock this mansion over so you can say you did? Surely there's something less...malevolent you can do to make a name for yourself?"

[Hello Purvis]

>"Then why DO you have to do this, Renko? I'm not sure I understand."

>"Because it will work," she says. "Because no one believes it will. No one's tried it. But it'll work!"

> "So...you only want to knock this mansion over so you can say you did? Surely there's something less...malevolent you can do to make a name for yourself?"

>"What's malevolent about it? This is a place where people shoot each other every day. I even saw a couple of oni fighting in the street out there. It's a place where people treat faeries like target practice. This isn't malevolent, it's...elegant."

>_

[E-Nazrin]

Just because you CAN be forgiven doesn't mean that you should make it necessary. Especially if that forgiveness requires changing the behavior that had to be forgiven anyway - defeating the point. Or not everyone forgives you, or a lot has to be done to make up for it.

Suggestions:
"I don't think it's the fighting or danmaku that I'm upset about, Renko. It's that something so big is on the line for it, with lasting destructive consequences should you succeed. Maybe even if you fail, if the mansion's residents take it out on the fairies for a long time."
"I... I just think there may be a better way to go about this. To prove yourself, to show the strength of fairies, to get fairies respect... I don't think you have to attack the mansion to do those things."
"Given that we can see the sun, I get the impression that the vampire ultimately failed. Do you think she would have been forgiven if she succeeded?"

[Kilgamayan]

I actually have a little bit of a different idea on what to say. Give me a moment to type it up.

EDIT: Though the third thing is good to point out. People were only forgiven if they failed.

[Serela]

>"You could try... attacking the mansion but NOT taking it over if you win, maybe?"

[DracoOmega]

I think that the third option is definitely worth mentioning.
I also think it's worth asking why she's trying so hard to prove that it can be done. I suspect we already know the answer to that, but it's good for her to actually hear herself say it.

[Kilgamayan]

How about this, then.

"From what experience are you speaking, here? I've met plenty of people that wanted to talk to me instead of shoot at me. The conflicts I've seen? I'm sure you've heard of Yuuka, right? She didn't shoot at me for invading her air space, she had me plant some flowers, and then she paid me handsomely for it and served me some tea. Kanako and Utsuho were really not fans of each other after whatever happened in Gensokyo Isle between them, but I went to both of them with an idea they could work together on, and both of them seem to have taken to it. Neither shot at me or decided they needed to go off and shoot at the other. Utsuho and Yuugi were the same way; major conflict that was resolved without a fight. When I went to the mansion? Meiling didn't shoot at me, even though I had no business there as far as she knew. When I went to the Moriya Shrine? The tengu guard didn't shoot at me, and let me pass after I explained my business. Hina only shot at me as a test; she was doing it for my benefit."
"Shizuha shot at me, yes, but she was apparently in a bad mood, and she gave up very quickly anyway. To be honest, most of the random shootings I've experienced today have come from fairies, like when I came back from the Hakurei Shrine, or when Mystia pointed out that their money wasn't actually money. The youkai here don't want to fight as much as you might think. Given all the shops and small businesses I've seen around, I actually think they rather enjoy the peaceful life, wherever they can get it."