Author Topic: RPG Mafia thread (Adorable Game of Mafia signups)  (Read 102098 times)

Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #720 on: July 16, 2012, 04:13:15 AM »
/in

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #721 on: July 16, 2012, 04:17:33 AM »
/in

Don't lynch me.

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #722 on: July 16, 2012, 04:20:56 AM »
oooh flavor. That episode.  THAT EPISODE.  it was funny.

Don't lynch me.

Schezo

  • en-counse
Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #723 on: July 16, 2012, 04:44:56 AM »
/in

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #724 on: July 16, 2012, 09:27:37 AM »
You had me until Bastard Mod.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
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Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #725 on: July 16, 2012, 09:43:29 AM »
You misunderstand. He meant Edible when he said Bastard Mod.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #726 on: July 16, 2012, 09:45:00 AM »
But it says right here he'll be lyingwithholding important information.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
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Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #727 on: July 16, 2012, 09:48:59 AM »


Quote
1) This is a traditional mafia game with standard day and night phases.  However, important information may be withheld from players regarding the state of the game and their roles, making it a bastard mod game.

He only said it once.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #728 on: July 16, 2012, 09:49:53 AM »
Eeeeh, I suppose I can play as a Replacement.

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #729 on: July 16, 2012, 10:18:51 AM »
Withholding important information and bastard mod are synonymous though, so maybe it's important information.J
Still... :V

Lexicat

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Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #730 on: July 16, 2012, 11:57:17 AM »
/in as long as we lynch Affinity day one

BT

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  • People say that I should
Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #731 on: July 16, 2012, 12:10:29 PM »
You know what

I will be following this ANYWAY

so /in

I hate myself already :mafiaaddiction:

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Wlecome to the NHK)
« Reply #732 on: July 16, 2012, 12:48:12 PM »
Well, that's it for signups.

Game will be up in 24 hours, I hope.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #733 on: July 16, 2012, 03:00:37 PM »
<Inaba_Tewi> Bard where's that case you were supposed to post :V

I'm going to make the case here that people who repeatedly have a negative effect on the Mafia environment should be carded, if not entirely barred from participation, duration of said barring to be determined by figures other than me. I will detail what I understand to be negative effects, the Mafia environment and why this is a good idea.

First of all, let's handle what I consider Mafia environment. This is rather important, as it extends to more than just the game state when it is under way. The Mafia Environment is the entire process of sign-ups, gameplay, Graveyard and post-game. I will consider any or all of these processes to be "the Mafia Environment", and souring any one of these or more is grounds to declare that someone has "a negative effect" on "the Mafia Environment".

Sign-Ups, Graveyard and Post-Game are, I believe, important parts as well, as anyone dicking around in Sign-Ups may discourage people from Signing-Up, whereas Graveyard attitudes are often insulting and Post-Game can be rife with negative attitudes, sore loser-ism and other such things that are just not encouraging sportsmanship and positive play.

What I consider a negative effect is rather broad, but nonetheless important: Any deliberate and continued/repeated action(s) which discourages players from participating in the game or discourages players from interacting with the source of said action, or any deliberate and continued/repeated action(s) which give unequivocal insult to players participating in the game[/i]. Put simply, this means emotional abuse and cyber-bullying. When I say 'deliberate', I mean that accidents can and will happen which may inadvertently create a negative effect on the game state.

Lurking due to extenuating circumstances has a negative effect on the game, as does lynching a newbie you honestly think is Scum, but neither are deliberate. Deliberate actions include treating people without any respect, (excessive) name-calling, calling into question one's rational abilities, attributing failure to one's echelon or implying problems in another's parentage/heritage. There are of course many other things, but these are rather prevalent, both in the game itself and in the Graveyard.

Yes, calling Townies a mass of idiots is a deliberate action which gives unequivocal insult to players participating in the game. One may not feel insulted but it is an action designed to do thus or to otherwise assert intellectual superiority to others, which is being a petty jerk and exhibits social inferiority. Yes, claiming you have extenuating family circumstances while no such thing is real also counts.

To put it in plain terms: anyone who is an untoward and deliberate dick ruins the game or upsets players, and we should want to discourage this.

Why? Because, frankly, it is a cancer on MoTK Mafia here. Mafia is a game of social intrigue where an uninformed minority faces off against an informed majority. The purposes of each Townie are to come to an understanding of who are against the Town and then make others come to the same understanding so as to effect a lynch on that person.

For Scum, the goal is to confuse Town and manipulate their actions onto other members of the Town or otherwise throw into disarray Town's attempts to unmask the Scum.

It's a battle of wits.

Sadly, some people feel that emotional manipulation/abuse, bullying and other such underhanded trickery is entirely acceptable. It should not be. Above everything else Mafia is a Party Game, which means you play it with a group of people. You play with a Group of People. No one plays the game solo (unless you're a Third Party, but even then others play with you) and no one person is ever accountable for the failure of either side of the competition. At the end of the Day, everyone should conclude Mafia with the joy of having played a game and to have bested maybe person X in a battle of wit.

It is impossible for everyone to experience such feelings if one or more people insist on souring the game "by any means possible" in order to stroke their own egos or assert their own (intellectual) superiority over others. If you want to feel better about yourself, Mafia should not be the venue for that.

Eliminating this style of play should decrease the need for a "time-out" to let "heated emotions" die down, or otherwise "recover" from a Mafia game over much. It will also lead to less animosity in the game, meaning that the state of gameplay will not be soured by the egocentric actions of few, which surely ruins it for a majority. Saying "no" to these players, or this type of play, together will ensure that no one should feel singled out for feeling their gameplay ruined. Assertions such as "I refuse to play with Person X" or "I would rather not join a game X is in" means that person has a negative effect on the Sign-Up process, but a mod should not be forced to "be the bad guy" and choose one over the other.

So. tl;dr, we should card or ban people who are excessive dicks by default instead of relying on the judgement of game mods. ##VOTE: Yes to agree to this proposal and to say "NO" to all this cocking around by jerks. :3
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 03:05:31 PM by Bardiche »

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #734 on: July 16, 2012, 03:09:29 PM »
Don't we already have the card system for this?

Also, vote against. Not a big fan of public shaming by the masses. I think a few private messages would be more effective and enjoyable for all parties involved. Although some games on mafiascum have perhaps a similar system titled "Wisdom of the Crowds," where players can, during signups, pm the mod the names of x players they would not like to play with, and if a certain threshold is passed for a player, the mod may remove that person from the playerlist. Is that more what you're aiming at?

Edit: Also, mafia is as much a battle of emotions and rhetoric as it is a battle of wits. That's just how the game is played since the participants are human. Encouraging more pleasant behaviour is a good goal though.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 03:11:37 PM by Conqueror »


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #735 on: July 16, 2012, 03:12:10 PM »
>public shaming
Who says anything about public shaming?

Omba

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Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #736 on: July 16, 2012, 03:15:08 PM »
Quote
##VOTE: Yes
No.

Mafia is a game of wits, yes. Remember how the mongols used to burn down cities and slaughter all the citizens to pressure other cities into surrendering without a fight? Pretty effective stuff.

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #737 on: July 16, 2012, 03:16:06 PM »
Quote
So. tl;dr, we should card or ban people who are excessive dicks by default instead of relying on the judgement of game mods.
Referring to the fact that you seem to be suggesting a vote-like approach to this instead of the mod-decision approach, which makes it more personal imo.

But I digress. I like your intentions but I disagree with the approach. How about we all just act nicer to one other? Like you said, curbtail the insults. Attack the play, not the player. Mafia is a party game, yo.


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #738 on: July 16, 2012, 03:18:44 PM »
Referring to the fact that you seem to be suggesting a vote-like approach to this instead of the mod-decision approach, which makes it more personal imo.

I'm suggesting people agree that people who are being excessive dicks by default should be carded, so Pesco/Edible may feel called to card people for that instead of waiting for a game mod to say that they felt x person deserves to be carded for unsportsmanlike play.

Mafia is a game of wits, yes. Remember how the mongols used to burn down cities and slaughter all the citizens to pressure other cities into surrendering without a fight? Pretty effective stuff.

... Um, okay.



Carry on as you were then. :derp:

I have no name

  • Dodge ALL the bullets
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #739 on: July 16, 2012, 03:22:15 PM »
I think the proposal is just "improving" the card system.

Looking at this from the perspective of someone in favor of a card being handed out: yay -1 annoying player
Looking at this from the perspective of someone being carded constantly: Why do these people not want me around?

Honestly I think I'm going to leave this vote to the people who have been around here longer.
No.

Mafia is a game of wits, yes. Remember how the mongols used to burn down cities and slaughter all the citizens to pressure other cities into surrendering without a fight? Pretty effective stuff.
That was war, this is a game.  It's meant to be fun.  Is it fun to be constantly bullied/attacked?

So. tl;dr, we should card or ban people who are excessive dicks by default instead of relying on the judgement of game mods. ##VOTE: Yes to agree to this proposal and to say "NO" to all this cocking around by jerks. :3
The only people I've played with who've reduced the fun for me were ICE in my first game (almost made me not continue) and LLD in Popcorn Mafia (and honestly she was half the reason I didn't replace into Dormio's game)

I don't want to rock the boat too much but I'm leaning in favor of this system right now-however only towards attacking other players outside of the context of the game.

That almost turned into a wall.

BT

  • I never talk to you
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  • People say that I should
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #740 on: July 16, 2012, 03:25:16 PM »
Bad case, ##Vote Bardiche

I don't think any one player is adopting a jerk-like playstyle to be a jerk to others. People that do this are jerks overall and shouldn't be included in games. I don't think we're dealing with any of those, though. Your personality in Mafia, more often than not, is different from how you usually act, which is why taking the "leave all Mafia rage in mafia" approach is so common. Combined with what I said earlier, people may be jerks in Mafia because they like that playstyle, because it improves their own Mafia experience. These aren't people we want to ban from games but people we want to put on the right track. I also believe that players that claim to "not want to play with PLAYER" do this not because they're actually offended by said player and refuse to converse with them, but because they don't like their "Mafia personality".

Kilgamayan

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Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #741 on: July 16, 2012, 03:26:51 PM »
##Vote: Yes

Makes my job as a mod easier.

Just as a fair warning, there is precedent for forum probation for inappropriate Mafia attitudes. I'm not really sure why people would prefer that system to this one.
[22:40:12] <Drake> "guys i donwloaded esod but its not workan"
[22:40:21] <Drake> REPORTED
[22:40:25] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> PROBATED
[22:40:30] <Drake> ORGASM
[22:40:32] <NaturallyOccurringChoja> FUCK YEAH

[22:28:39] <Edible> Mafia would be a much easier game if we were playing "spot the asshole"

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
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Re: RPG Mafia thread
« Reply #742 on: July 16, 2012, 03:29:31 PM »
/in as long as we lynch Affinity day one

We won't, so feel free to /out instead.

BT

  • I never talk to you
  • *
  • People say that I should
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #743 on: July 16, 2012, 03:34:10 PM »
To clarify, the system is all about punishing players that willingly ruin other players' experiences. That is very agreeable. However, there needs to be a distinction between "willingly ruining players' experiences" and "willingly adopting a playstyle that ruins players' experiences". The latter is not the kind of bad intent we're trying to keep out.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #744 on: July 16, 2012, 03:36:35 PM »
<Bardiche> omba, let me put it this way.
<Inaba_Tewi> if I'm not in the game, I consult the GM first to decide if the player is mafia and is using it for an advantage or not
<Bardiche> If you call me a retard, I don't particularly care because I know it isn't true.
<Bardiche> But if I have to play a game and you call me retard at every avenue.
<Bardiche> I don't really have any reason to continue playing that game because there's someone continuously antagonising me in it

^ This is the sort of behaviour we should be stamping out and that I propose we eliminate by collectively urging the mods to revise the card system and intervene on their own rather than wait for (a number of) players to come to them with the request to card someone.

There is no public shaming nor immediate banning, but right now there's a laissez-faire attitude where no one intervenes unless the game mod says so, and most game mods are too nice to want to bar someone from their game or warn them for belligerent behaviour, especially if they have to suffer that behaviour as a response.

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #745 on: July 16, 2012, 03:37:49 PM »
To clarify, the system is all about punishing players that willingly ruin other players' experiences. That is very agreeable. However, there needs to be a distinction between "willingly ruining players' experiences" and "willingly adopting a playstyle that ruins players' experiences". The latter is not the kind of bad intent we're trying to keep out.
Well, we do want to discourage it to promote a more pleasant game environment. If they're doing it willingly it means they're capable of changing it to something that makes the game more enjoyable for all.


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

BT

  • I never talk to you
  • *
  • People say that I should
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #746 on: July 16, 2012, 03:39:56 PM »
I never knew mods had to wait on game mods to tell them what to do. That's why they're mods?

@Conq: Exactly.
These aren't people we want to ban from games but people we want to put on the right track.
Bard was (still is) making the implication of keeping them out altogether.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
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Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #747 on: July 16, 2012, 03:42:12 PM »
LLD is unavailable for this game and all future games for an indefinite period.  She had been warned about certain types of behavior and chose to repeatedly ignore the warnings.

Please direct all complaints to management.

Shadoweh

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Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #748 on: July 16, 2012, 03:44:34 PM »
@Conq: Exactly.Bard was (still is) making the implication of keeping them out altogether.
There has to be a point where people stand by their threats. Naturally no one wants to be the mean person who says no. But if no one is willing to say enough is enough at some point, then no one has any incentive to get better, knowing they will always be tolerated.


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Pesco

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  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: RPG Mafia thread (Welcome to the NHK)
« Reply #749 on: July 16, 2012, 03:45:31 PM »
I never knew mods had to wait on game mods to tell them what to do. That's why they're mods?

Acting on hearsay and only one side of the story is never a good idea. If I don't know the context, I find it out first.