Generic F11 Mafia - Game Over

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Hey JOB, who do you think is scum outside of PX?

Also, when people ask for you to reiterate yourself, it's usually a good idea to comply. Saying "lolIalreadysaidthis" only annoys every party involved.

[J.O.B]

Oh, I don't know, ask some more question, vote other people, not say it in a tone that sounds like, "Oh, don't ask because we're not getting anything from it." Because that's how I read that post.

Yeah, you're not addressing my point at all.

STILL avoiding the point. Why does it take you two people before you actually explain your reads? And wtf does the first sentence have to do with anything, AT ALL?

Your reasoning sucks, thus your vote sucks.

And you're acting as if not voting someone to L-1 is a scumtell. Yeah, no.

Sheeping: The act of following the popular wagon or popular player with no independent intent.
Indeed, you have only been pursuing cases AFTER someone else votes them, and then use their words as a case. Thus, you show no push to actually find scum.

Yeah, he said nothing about why he's voting me. GJ trying to hide behind someone else.

Yeah okay, fuck you. I could take it if you disprove my case, but you've done nothing but avoid it and hiding behind meta. And if that wasn't enough, you decide to insult me personally. I can take most insults, but the one thing I cannot tolerate is when somebody calls me stupid. I swear, until you die, my vote will now forever stay on you.

In fact, the rest of your posts pretty much read as avoiding the issue on hand. And on top of this, if anyone ever questions you, you just hide behind "Deal with it, it's me." or "I'm a newbie." or "I do that thing all the time."

TO EVERYBODY ELSE WHO IS GIVING JOB A CLEAR ON META, FUCK YOU. IF ANYBODY FUCKING ELSE DID THIS, YOU WOULD BE SCREAMING SCUM IN THEIR FACE AND VOTING THEM TO OBLIVION. FUCK THIS META CLEAR, ALL YOU'RE DOING IS PROMOTING BAD PLAY, LETTING HIM STAY AT THIS LEVEL INSTEAD OF GETTING HIM TO IMPROVE, AND GENERALLY JUST INFURIATING EVERYONE ELSE.

Okay then, PX post number 1 (I'll do post 2 next post).

What should I have asked? I already asked all that could have been. And I was voting other people from the beginning. Funny thing is you say I should have voted other people, yet you were the 3rd person on Shadoweh's early D1 wagon.

Yes I am, you said I randomly provided stances without giving reasons. I addressed you point by saying that I never asked for reasons in the first place.

Why are you using this against me? It just means they asked me in rapid succsession, meaning I didn't have any time to respond in between (the reason I didn't respond was because I was playing Minecraft :V).

A vote is still a vote. Your voting me for bad play, voting for bad play alone is sucky. Your reason sucks, thus your vote sucks.

I'm acting as if the fact he is hesitant to vote her to L-1 is a scumtell. You vote someone if you're sure they're scum. Not because they don't have as much votes as your number 1 suspect (if the number 1 suspect is already at L-1 then it's an exception (anywhere not at the end of the day obviously)).

You accused me of sheeping using a case of mine as an example. That case had one sheeped reason, and two non-sheeped reasons. By your logic I'm one-part lazy two-parts active. So why are you calling me lazy. In fact, your sheeping too. Everybody else says I'm not playing the best, yet that is still your whole case on me.

I wasn't talking about his vote (though I included it in anyway, because I was going to vote you), I was talking about his summary of your post. "PX, wtf?" Was a perfect summary of that post.

Yet you call me stupid. You say I'm not playing well. Which is essentially calling me stupid. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house (this should become a mafia motto or something). In fact, I included the last paragraph because you basically saying everyone is stupid for not voting me. So don't be a hypocrite.

I only mentioned the fact I sucked for like, one post (which is the one you're talking about). Seriously, read my posts will you?

Okay then, this post done. Onto the next one.

Cut by Dormio.
Oh sorry, I forgot about that question. Outside of PX, I think Schezo could be scum, possibly Shadoweh (though not as strong as earlier in the day). I haven't really had time to judge everyone else as much due to PX and Schezo (former being an asshole to me latter having a huge logic fight with me).

[J.O.B]

Actually, this time I'm just gonna add my comments in bold or something to the quote, to make it easier to read.

First, let's look at his early game. He posts a lot, but they're mostly just small questions or small comments, and don't seem like attempting to find scum or create discussion. Lack of initiative to find scum. Says the person who is tunneling on me. Lack of initiative to find scum in anyone else.

Next, his list of reads, which he provided no reason for until TWO people asked him. And his reasons for his reads? A pretty crappy reason on why he's voting Schezo, and basically taking Conq's post for why Shadoweh is scum. Note that Conq's post was made WELL after JOB said that he found Shadoweh scummy. He's not honest scumhunting, he's just finding popular wagons, following them, and stealing reasons. AKA sheeping.... Already addressed in the previous post.

And how does that make him scum? Are you implying that he's your scumbuddy and that the reason why he's scum is because he's ignoring you because that's what scum usually do with their scumbuddies. Oh, and if you want to talk about that.And you never talked about Shadoweh again. Who says scum normally ignore their scumbuddies? In CotA my buddies were bussing the hell out of me, how is that ignoring? I never talked about Shadoweh again because I got caught up with Schezo (and later you). Schezo didn't appear to have much going on at all when he forgot about me, only a little spat with Dormio (which escalated into something larger later, but that's beside the point).

As for sheeping, you're not saying "This guy is scum because X", you're going "This guy is scum because Y says this guy is scum for X". If that's not lazy scumhunting at its finest, then I don't know what is. How exactly have I been saying that? I've sheeped some reasons, but I've provided other reasons of my own. You can't call me lazy if I've been more acive than lazy. You're the lazy one. All you've been doing is tunneling on me for bad play, instead of finding the actual scum.

This is just terrible. In your words. What are you implying? That because I said it, it's terrible?

And his response to any cases made against him? Avoiding answering the accusations, and personal insults that only serve to anger the opposition. You know, basically ignoring everything that's said against them and making the other person sound less irrational? How much have I avoided? The Schezo fight doesn't count because that most likely would have escalated into something larger if it had kept going.

These all combined are very scummy playing and behavior. And before you go "But that's JOB!", fuck you. You know that you would instantly vote anyone else doing this. Why is it that I get all the shit when I do any of this, but JOB gets a free clear when he does all this shit. Why is it that you're not giving anyone else shit and instead giving me all the shit?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Tally VI: The Votecount of the ""Wow, there isn't actually much grape-related food to work with here" Discovery"
Komeiji PX (3): MySTKing, J.O.B, Tamamo no dorMae
WHMZakeri (3): Shadoweh, ActionDan, Serela
J.O.B (2): Schezo, Komeiji PX
Shadoweh (1): WHMZakeri

Not Voting: None!
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. You have about 17.5 hours remaining in the day, so you had better not waste them~.

[J.O.B]

I can completely understand why PX is infuriated since JOB has been pretty much just trolling him and Schezo.

How have I been trolling them? And weren't you trolling us a lot early game?

[Shadoweh]

I would call my posts more being playful. :p
Hey JOB, why am I scum?

[J.O.B]

For the reasons I mentioned when I originally thought you were scum. Though you're not doing it as much now which is why my suspicion has lessened.

[Shadoweh]

Do you ever sleep?
I am stupid and don't remember what they are. Also, if you're going to continue to be suspicious something must still be bothering you. Name something recent that hasn't been covered by someone else.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Could you please state those reasons?

[J.O.B]

Link (Courtesy of PX)

reasons for his reads?

Do you ever sleep?
I am stupid and don't remember what they are. Also, if you're going to continue to be suspicious something must still be bothering you. Name something recent that hasn't been covered by someone else.

It's only about 7PM here :V

One thing that bothers me about you is some of the reasons you have given. Some of them just seem a bit off to me.
Like how you called me a troll with no real example of how I am one (I'm still waiting for an answer to my question).

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I said I found Zakeri weird, and that I would reread him because of this when I had time. Well then, heaven or hell, let's rock.

First off, we have his fake L-1 vote on Shadoweh. This by itself was rather interesting, however, without any follow up given it kind of looks to me like a lazy way to earn townie cred for breaking us out of the RVS.

I assume that Zakeri's #71 is in response to Shadoweh's #49, where she calls Schezo town. Zakeri claims that Shadoweh is buddying up to Schezo, as he is trying to save her from being lynched.
I honestly find it hard to believe that anyone would be quicklynched in the RVS, and I doubt that Zakeri believes that such a thing could happen either. Which raises the question of why Zakeri would continue to hold onto this point. He admits himself that it is a stretch to think that Shadoweh believed that she was at actual risk of being lynched in #129.
Outside of this, his case on Shadoweh is... What is his case on Shadoweh? I don't get it, it sounds as though he's thinking that Shadoweh is scum for getting a read on Schezo. Zakeri fails to address anything else.

His clear of me, Schezo, and Serela is really sketchy. I mean, Schezo is town because Shadoweh called him town and Shadoweh is scum. Serela and I are town because we called each other scum at the beginning of the game.
He calls my argument with Schezo as being town vs. town, and that only noise will come out of it if we were left alone. If he believed this to be the case, why did he not do anything about it?

In addition, Zakeri says that my unvote of Shadoweh in response to the fake L-1 doesn't seem 100% town to him. Fair enough, however, this probably means that Zakeri believes that I did not believe that Shadoweh was likely to get lynched. Why can I think that Shadoweh won't be lynched, but not Shadoweh?
As in, if he can think that I did not believe that Shadoweh would be lynched, what happens to his case on Shadoweh which required her to believe that she was at risk of actually being lynched?

I mean, Zakeri's actions feel really off to me.


Now for my own sake, I'm going to reiterate my thoughts on PX.

I dislike how PX did not follow up on the questions he asked in #41.

I dislike the hypocriticism in PX's #89, where he created his own list with several null reads whilst saying that JOB doing this was scummy due to it being a lazy way of feigning scumhunting.

I feel that PX is going after an easy lynch in JOB, rather than looking for actual scum. After all, his entire case revolves around JOB using faulty logic.

I do not like how PX has been using rage at JOB as an excuse to ignore the rest of the game. I still have questions that I would like answered from him. Namely, why did he consider ActionDan to be townie in his list of reads when Conq and Zakeri had actually posted more than Dan, why did he believe Shadoweh to be scummy, and who he thinks is scummy outside of JOB.
Despite the fact that I asked him these questions on a few occasions, he never answered any of them, preferring to rage at JOB instead. He also ignores everything else that is happening in the game, with the whole rage at JOB business.

Yep, I would prefer to see PX lynched today, but would not be averse to switching to Zakeri if that is what is needed to secure a lynch.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

@JOB #159: Is that you directed at PX or Shadoweh? If Shadoweh, could you please state which reasons seem off to you and why?

[J.O.B]

That's directed at Shadoweh (and to an extent, you).
I already stated a reason. So does that mean you want more?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Yes. It does.

[J.O.B]

RE: Serela and Dormio. So I guess I'm the only one who considers those two could be insane enough to actually do that together as scum? It doesn't mean anything now since there are better Dormio posts to look at.  I didn't mention my own opinion on it first because I don't need to ask myself for my own opinion and I find it uninteresting to think about. In all non-sarcasticness it bothers me that I do this as town every time and you guys call me scum for it every time. It's like we've never spent any time together at all.

This is one reason in particular that feels off to me, whether she was sarcastic or not. She may not want her own opinion, but we do.

Looking for more, I'm sure I saw some others somewhere.

[Conqueror]

PX: Basically your case on JOB boils down to sheeping, fluff-posting, and not taking the initiative with his reads. Look, I don't like how at some points JOB has latched onto what I've said after I've said it, but his play here is reminding me of Graveyard Anonymafia Remilia, not CotA Depore. Scummy playing and behavior, yeah, yeah, but PX, you know how many passes you've gotten for your play at times. And in any case I don't think what he's doing is as scummy as you're painting it. As for dual expectations, I expect more from you as opposed to what I expect from JOB. I think you're being extremely lazy by overemphasizing the weak points in his play, and your single minded pursuit of this is scummy because I haven't seen you do anything else. If you're town, I want you to look at him again with an open mind. Do you really think he's scum?

Posting this first because I hate reading walls as a player; I'd rather read sextuple posts.

[J.O.B]

Nonsense. Meta is good the whole week long. It's not my fault you don't know any better.

Here's another thing. As I said mea is only good for starting suspicions/clears and needs something to back it up.

I'm pretty sure I saw one more thing.

[J.O.B]

I would say that Schezo posting anything of substance within the first 8 hours of the game was the town tell, actually. He's not waiting and seeing. Have I mentioned Schezo is Town Lately?

This was the last thing. This is currently the only reason (I remember) for Shadoweh thinking Schezo is town other than with meta. The fact she continues to make it know to everyone that Schezo is suposedly town with little reason to is another thing that feels off to me. I was trying to post something of susbstance (and I'm pretty sure I did, unless I failed), so why was I neutral?

Also lol I said "mea" instead of "meta" in my last post.

[PX]

Well I suppose I can give other reads, if you really insist ♡

Namely, why did he consider ActionDan to be townie in his list of reads when Conq and Zakeri had actually posted more than Dan, why did he believe Shadoweh to be scummy, and who he thinks is scummy outside of JOB.

What? You ask why I find one guy more townie than others, acting as if posting more = town. It's simply that I liked his post more. As for why Shadoweh-san was scummy, it's because she was doing this thing that wasn't scumhunting, and that's uncharacteristic of her. As for other people not JOB, I have my Town reads and my null reads, but nobody is sticking out to me as scum. (Other than Serela-sempai being ugh but now's not the time for that) I see Zakeri-sempai's 71 more as a joke post.

I feel that PX is going after an easy lynch in JOB, rather than looking for actual scum. After all, his entire case revolves around JOB using faulty logic.

http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,11367.msg750588.html#msg750588

Cut by too many people: What is it with people wanting explanations for Town reads?! I thought we went over this how explaining Town reads helps scum a lot more than Townies?

JOB post comes after sleep

[J.O.B]

As for other people not JOB, I have my Town reads and my null reads, but nobody is sticking out to me as scum.

Even if you make a post not dedicated to me this sentence above me still means you're tunneling. You still have a lack of initiative to find scum in other people. I mean, there can't be just one scum.

[PX]

One request before I go to sleep

Read JOB's post as if they were posted by somebody not JOB, and give me a read based on that

Cut edit
Just because there are two scuk doesn't mean I should be looking for two scum at the same time, reads change with flips
No point coming up with a scumteam without flips

[Conqueror]

Now why is it I don't trust Conqueror? Maybe it's because he attacks me in his first post I'm.. actually not sure. I think it's because he's pursuing all the people I think are town.

Clearly you should re-evaluate your townreads!

I can completely understand why PX is infuriated since JOB has been pretty much just trolling him and Schezo. This still doesn't answer the question I asked. As Conqueror points out, it still looks like you're chasing him for being bad without caring if he's scum. I will say my urge to lynch PX over this decreases with every post.

I feel like PX has been coming on pretty strong and would be the strong obvtown if people weren't attacking him for wacky reasons. JOB is being a troll and I'd rather lynch the troll then PX. (There are so many things wrong with that sentence.)

Uh huh. Funnily enough, stuff like this makes me want to lynch PX more. I feel like you're contradicting yourself by acknowledging that PX is pushing JOB's lynch without caring if he's scum...and then calling him obvtown for...coming on strongly? What? Also, why do you think JOB is trolling, and what would make him a better lynch than PX?

I do not think I have ever gone out of my way to declare someone town as scum. I don't think I ever will either, it's far more trouble then it's worth.

Oh come on. Don't make me link you to multiple past examples on this very board.

Serela, how hard is it to get a read on JOB seriously. Do you think he's town or scum? Dormio is being all tunnelio, you must have an idea of where that puts him for you. Same with Zak and Conqy, If you could, I don't know, point to something they've said that gives you these bad feelings about them it would help read your completely non-sensical mind.

This entire section of this post gives me bad vibes man."How hard is it to get a read on JOB seriously?" Well I don't know Shadoweh, doesn't seem too easy for you. Really, what is this? The last thing read on JOB I saw, minus the opinion he's trolling, was this:

I'm not sure how I feel about JOB. I'm still gathering reads in his direction. I dislike that he's not obvtown to me yet.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the query aimed at Serela seems kinda slimy. I don't know how else to put it.

That said, I do agree that Serela is something special. I'm going to ignore him until he can post something coherent.

Anyway, I'm kinda wary of Shadoweh. I don't like this soft defence of PX for reasons that no one is going to buy either. It reminds me too much of stuff scum!Shadoweh has done in the past. Still, I think Shadoweh gets easier to read as the game goes on so.

Conq find me a good reaction shot depicting me strangling Serela would you.

I'm afraid my collection is a little lacking. Have this instead.

[J.O.B]

Just because there are two scuk doesn't mean I should be looking for two scum at the same time, reads change with flips

But what if for some reason you see the light and think I'm town? What will you do then?

[Conqueror]

Anyway, I disagree with the Zakeri lynch because I think(?) I agree with him on Shadoweh being weird, even if he doesn't word it very well and I don't really support a Shadoweh lynch today. I don't have a clear read on Zakeri either way because he only has two real posts, but the problem is that I can't understand why people are voting him.

Dan is going off about 100% something or other, Shadoweh I still don't understand despite the clarification, and Serela's post is pretty much a hypocritical wagon hop.

there's a bunch of waffles over PX that I'm also going "uhhh" on.

PX... I'm undecided. I'll just write him off as neutral read at the moment.

[Shadoweh]

But what if for some reason you see the light and think I'm town? What will you do then?

Considering this is PX I imagine it'll involve suicide voting himself because he no longer wants to live. :V

It's funny you want examples of trolling when you posted a DWI face. You can't just end an argument like that in a mafia game.
Sigh. Sorry PX, but he's town, we can't lynch him. (I tried reading his posts as if he were DollS but it didn't make him any less townie.) Yes, he's frustrating as hell, but he thinks he has good points and is pursuing them from a townie standpoint. You can't judge people by other people's standards, JOB is JOB as much as PX is PX. I'd still rather lynch him over PX <.<

Conq, when have we given PX passes considering he gets lynched almost every game? He has the feel of someone being a town leader, that's what I mean by coming on strong. I swear this isn't like that time I derailed his wagon just because. I actually believe he's town this time. I would not be wasting time trying to convince him not to tunnel on JOB if I felt otherwise. I also feel PX is being genuine with his frustration, that and even as town in previous games his dying words have been LYNCH JOB so it's not like this is scum!PX only behaviour. Choosing between them from my perspective is choosing between two town, someone strong (what is wrong with this group) and the troll (who isn't PX I AM EATING SOAP RIGHT NOW).

Oh come on. Don't make me link you to multiple past examples on this very board.

You know what? Go ahead and look for them. I don't think they exist. Only rule is you can't use Graveyard Mafia, the buddying there was half-UK and half QT Mason partners 4 lyfe.

I told you I care more about other people's opinions on things then my own! Be gentle, someone had to ask Serela SOMETHING he could respond to.  :blush: I don't mind prancing around naked in my glass house while I throw stones at people though. Do hope the stuff on PX and JOB, Re: They're both town, satisfies your curiousity.

As for the re-evaluating, I think the only read I keep reconsidering is Dan. I'd swear he's being too quiet. Is he at chess camp again?

[Shadoweh]

huh what: Think grape crepes, grape flavored pop, different flavors of wine..
oh god if we lose I'll have nothing to drink. @_@
I think I should sleep or something. I shall be back, if my calculations are correct, about 2 hours before deadline. Consolidate those votes townies! There better be bandwagons when I get back! And a PX at L-1 for me to hammer! <--- This is a joke don't yell at me

[Conqueror]

Real quick before you go, this off the top of my head. Anyway, it's not really important.

[Shadoweh]

Oh yeah that was a hilarious list.
I mean uh, ew, how scummy and terrible of me! I like how that slot is still a scum. >.>
That was day 3 though, and it was a well established vibe that Rakanishu was UK and therefore had to be town. Besides, I believe the problem you had was I didn't justify anything I said on that list even slightly. And note how Raka was helping me lynch all the townies!

[Conqueror]

Conq, when have we given PX passes considering he gets lynched almost every game? He has the feel of someone being a town leader, that's what I mean by coming on strong. I swear this isn't like that time I derailed his wagon just because. I actually believe he's town this time. I would not be wasting time trying to convince him not to tunnel on JOB if I felt otherwise. I also feel PX is being genuine with his frustration, that and even as town in previous games his dying words have been LYNCH JOB so it's not like this is scum!PX only behaviour. Choosing between them from my perspective is choosing between two town, someone strong (what is wrong with this group) and the troll (who isn't PX I AM EATING SOAP RIGHT NOW).

He gets wagoned every game sure, but your meta needs updating as he doesn't actually always get lynched because of the passes I'm talking about (heck I even derailed his wagon once). I'm not sure where you're getting this PX as town leader feeling from, because I sure as hell don't see it. I see PX not really doing much of anything. You can call this par for the course, but I feel like he's definitely less single-minded when he's town (not that meta stays constant anyway). And genuine frustration can come from scum as much as town.
I don't think anyone is saying choose between JOB/PX so I'm curious why you chose to word it that way. I just don't think the points on JOB are that valid, and I think PX is scummy for pushing them in the way he is without doing much else.

Cut; yeah, I was just pointing out that scum do what scum need to do, and you're not exempt from it.

[J.O.B]

It's funny you want examples of trolling when you posted a DWI face. You can't just end an argument like that in a mafia game.

Choosing between them from my perspective is choosing between two town, someone strong (what is wrong with this group) and the troll (who isn't PX I AM EATING SOAP RIGHT NOW).

That wasn't trolling, that was my reaction to the frustration caused by that argument with Schezo. It was basically "Fuck it, I need a break."

PX is coming on strong by using capital letters and the word "fuck" a lot. How does that make him town? Have you actually looked at the horrible logic in his posts? I mean, he attacks me because TWO PEOPLE HAPPENED TO POST BEFORE I COULD ANSWER THEIR QUESTION OH NOES I MUST BE SCUM. How is that not bad?

Yes, he's frustrating as hell, but he thinks he has good points and is pursuing them from a townie standpoint.

When it comes to the argument against PX, it's not exactly the way you summarized it. PX is attacking me with shitty logic, I'm countering that shitty logic with decent points. He's just flinging whatever he can at me to make me look scummy (I mean seriously why is it that two people asking before I could respond mean I'm scum?).
Cut by Shadoweh and Conq (Conq kinda saying part of what I just said)