Koakuma's Writer's Parlour ~ Have some tea and discuss fiction and writing here!

[Esifex]

I stand corrected, then. :B

[Tengukami]

I was thinking the other day about why I've recently started writing fanfiction, and wrote a short blog post about it. Have a look, and share your thoughts (comments are open to all ... or yeah, you can also just talk about it in this thread).

http://tengukami.blogspot.com/2010/03/why-fan-fiction.html

[Esifex]

Writing fanfiction is in some ways a challenge and in other ways leisure. Your characters are all fully developed in advance; their personalities, their lives, their interactions with each other. Your audience knows a great deal about your characters' motivations beforehand, and if you know your audience well enough, you know which characters they like and dislike. That definitely takes some work off your shoulders.

This is precisely why I enjoy writing stuff based in Gensokyo.

[Suikama]

Made a topic about the VN thing. Go post in it if you want one done :3

[Paul Debrion]

This is precisely why I enjoy writing stuff based in Gensokyo.

Pretty much.


Right now I guess I'd better figure out how to get this one piece out of "perpetual re-write hell". It seems like every other time I look at it I see a dozen things wrong and I end up completely re-directing or changing major parts of the story.

Maybe I should just set a self imposed deadline to "freeze" the first chapter so I stop screwing it up and doing it over. 

[Hideki]

Dammit Paul, I thought the same thing of you as when Ammy changed his name. Kindly warn us when you change EVERYTHING about you.  :V

On topic, the reason I like writing and reading fanfiction for Touhou is precisely that.  There's only so much the official works can show us, there are so many stories left untold.  With a mythology that big and so many characters, there have to be other stories other than those shown, and fanfiction and doujin works are a way to discover those side stories. 

I happen to like mythologies that have such a depth, whether they be character-based or setting-based.  To me, a character based setting is like Touhou, where the main stories are in how the characters interact with each other. In such a setting, because a lot of character interactions are only hinted at, the wealth of writing material is in finding out how different characters will interact.  A setting-based mythology would be something like the Star Wars EU.  As such, there's not as many characters to keep track of, but you can see the other worlds that go on behind the main character's backs, the side characters, the cameos, and the non-issue characters going about their business without any characterization at all.  In that, the wealth of stories is in how those characters ignored by canon go about their business, either not or subtly influencing the canonical story.  To paraphrase a character from the Star Wars EU: "Everyone remembers what Lando Calrissian did at the battle of Endor, but does anyone remember the name of the gunner on Home One?"  I would like to know about those characters, and that's why I like reading stuff from such a place.

[Gpop]

Y'know, one of the reasons I decided to choose to go with Gengetsu as the main character of my fic is that very little is known about her. Makes it really easy and flexible to create a backstory and personality on her. Same with her sister.

[Hello Purvis]

Don't read this if you actually like anything I've ever written. Especially my Text adventures. Because this is going to suck all the magic out of them, I swear to god.

For reals. You've been warned. They'll look like 80 times more terrible if you'll read this. Because you'll notice things. And then it won't be as fun to read anymore.

Also cursing. Because I have the passions.








You know what I hate?

Dialogue.

I cannot make characters not sound exactly the goddamned same. I can add in some slangy stuff now and again, but in the end, they always have the exact same voice and it pisses me off so badly. The way they phrase things is always the same, the word choices are always the same. I cannot write people who sound unique no matter what I try. All I can really do is mask it up with accents and slang and shits and hope no one notices.

And then there's that whole goddamn thing where you're trying to write people having natural seeming gestures and expressions? You'd think that'd make 'em seem individual right? I can't even do that well. They always end up reacting to shit the same way. Same kind of body language all around. And then there's dropping that shit in seemlessly. Doing it so it doesn't mess up the flow of conversation? Goddamn, I can only dream of imagining getting that right.  I just sorta end up dropping in like chucking rocks at a river, and hoping it lands in the right spot. Let alone actually being stuff people would do.

And then either there's not enough of it, and shit reads like a script of a muck talking to himself like a schizophrenic, or there's too much and you can't even tell what's being said for all the facial expression and arm flailing and walking across the room and shit. Usually it's the former for me. I tend to have people talk and forget to make 'em do anything.

Speaking of that, you know what I hate?

Descriptions.

Oh god I cannot describe a thing to save my life. Start with big details you notice immediately, work with little ones. Fuck a duck, you'd think it'd be easy. But goddamn if I just sorta start shooting them out like an uzi on full auto in the hands of a blind man and hoping I even wing the target. Let alone trying to make them flow naturally into one another. And fuck me if I ever remember to apply non-visual senses. Smell, touch, temperature, sounds? Maybe I'll remember 'em weeks later. =[

You know what I hate?

Making one thing flow into another.

Christy McAllah I hate this so much. Making one paragraph look like it's supposed to follow another? Hell, making one sentence seem like it's supposed to follow another! Shit, I abuse "also", "furthermore", and other such words so much the language ought to consider me a war criminal. And if I don't do it, my shit just reads like a kludge of sentences put into a random order by a dice roller with the periodic key phrase missing that would tie it all together. I just cannot make shit flow at all. It's all like a like a first grader's paragraphs, all I get are a much of wooden sentences.

I'm not even going to get into my cousinfucking typos and dyslexia. =I

Genitals.

[Tengukami]

Sounds like you're a real writer to me.

[Hello Purvis]

I like to pretend.

I'm aware enough to know exactly how bad I am at it. =[

[Bias Bus]

I wish I knew how bad I was...at least I know whether to give up or try harder :V

[Tengukami]

I like the advice of Bill Burroughs: "If you've just finished writing something and think it's brilliant, tear it up at once and throw it into someone else's garbage can."

[Esifex]

Purvis - you will triumph.

It takes a lot of time - I've been writing as a hobby since I was eight. I'm 22 now, and I STILL feel like my stories lack a professional flow. Most of my shit (read: Everlasting Wanderers) is mostly just dialogue back and forth with the occasional break for actiony descriptions of whatever's happening. Then, when I notice this happening, I'll cut all dialogue out of a chunk and just describe everything as it happens (read again: library scene).

Thing is, though, I've read waaaaaaaaaaaaay more books than I could EVER hope to read or even remember. Through them, I've been picking up little tidbits of styles and tricks of the trade to give my stories a stable, if slightly shaky, foundation. Just gotta keep at it.

[Hello Purvis]

Purvis - you will triumph.

It takes a lot of time - I've been writing as a hobby since I was eight. I'm 22 now, and I STILL feel like my stories lack a professional flow. Most of my shit (read: Everlasting Wanderers) is mostly just dialogue back and forth with the occasional break for actiony descriptions of whatever's happening. Then, when I notice this happening, I'll cut all dialogue out of a chunk and just describe everything as it happens (read again: library scene).

Thing is, though, I've read waaaaaaaaaaaaay more books than I could EVER hope to read or even remember. Through them, I've been picking up little tidbits of styles and tricks of the trade to give my stories a stable, if slightly shaky, foundation. Just gotta keep at it.

This is pretty much me. Except replace 8 with 14 and 22 with 28.

I also fell out of the habit around...23 or so. I just couldn't be happy with what I made anymore. It's crazy rare I even get the urge to really write anymore. Because I'll just stall up and stop, unless I'm insanely in love with my idea; a la First Against the Wall. Or I'll force myself and just out sub-mediocrity with all the stuff I mentioned up there.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

Me, I hate narration. I'd much rather just write a script with dialogue, or make a comic. (This accounts for why I release a new comic at least six times more often than I release a new fanfic-chapter.)

[Esifex]

In short, what any curious, up-and-coming writers should take away from this little conversation...

There is no wrong way to write.

Unless you butcher the language you're writing in.

Cuz leik dat wood B way suxorz 2 right liek dat

[FinnKaenbyou]

It's comforting to see I'm not the only one who gets irritated at his own perceived inability to write. :S

But yeah, I have a really awkward way of writing dialogue, I'm bad at writing descriptions,

Spoiler:

I write far too many scenes involving water

- there are times I wonder 'why do people actually LIKE this stuff?' :<

[Tengukami]

Writing in second person takes a bit of getting used to, if you're like me and haven't hosted an RPG in years.

[Hello Purvis]

In short, what any curious, up-and-coming writers should take away from this little conversation...

There is no wrong way to write.

Unless you butcher the language you're writing in.

Cuz leik dat wood B way suxorz 2 right liek dat

I would disagree. There's all sorts of wrong ways to write. I know because I've done 'em and I've read more than enough examples of from others. There's a lovely book on the subject, 200 Ways Not to Write  Novel, that goes into it in great detail. Awful characterization, clunky sentences, poor word choices and focuses of attention, insufficient scene setting, over-sufficient scene setting. The list goes on.

[Tengukami]

I can certainly second that. Take a look at the Strange Horizons submissions guidelines page. There you will find a very long list of well-worn fantasy/sci-fi plot devices that they do not want to see submitted. Many of these plot ideas are probably familiar to you all. They make a decent disclaimer:

This is not a canonical list of bad stories or story cliches. This is a list of types of stories that we at SH have seen too often; it's not intended to be a complete list of all types of bad stories, nor are all the items on the list necessarily bad.

With that in mind, here's a sample:

Weird things happen, but it turns out they're not real.

   1. In the end, it turns out it was all a dream.
   2. In the end, it turns out it was all in virtual reality.
   3. In the end, it turns out the protagonist is insane.
   4. In the end, it turns out the protagonist is writing a novel and the events we've seen are part of the novel.

...

Person is floating in a formless void; in the end, they're born.
Person uses time travel to achieve some particular result, but in the end something unexpected happens that thwarts their plan.

[Hello Purvis]

I'd argue with proper loving care, most plotlines that aren't blatantly contradictory to reality can be made to work (Sorry Rand). It's lack of forethought and lack of technique that tends to sink them. Mind you, this often goes hand in hand with overused plot devices. But correlation, causation, et al.

[Dizzy H. "Muffin" Muffin]

I was amused by the "loose on the net" bit; a couple years ago I had an idea for a story which would pointedly avert the "not clear on what on the net means" bit.

[Nobu]

Question i'd like to pose to any and all of you fiction writers. About how long would you estimate it takes you to write? Of course it's all dependent on the length of the story, but how long do you think it takes you to write a few pages on average?

I feel like I take forever, personally. I just spent the past three hours writing, and I have barely three pages worth.  :ohdear:

[Dead Princess Sakana]

I'm a fast writer once I overcome my laziness and actually start.
Take the Librarian Stories for example, I think I never spend more than about 1 1/2 to 2 hours on each chapter.

[Hello Purvis]

Varies like hell.

You'd be surprised how long it takes to just make the lists in Day Planners =[

[Tengukami]

For a story of about 3500 words, it'll take an hour or so to outline, 12 hours to rough draft, and 24 to 36 hours to polish. All that is spread out over the course of a week or so. I like to take frequent breaks to freshen up and re-think things.

[Bias Bus]

10,000 years.

...

Okay, let's be honest; Since I usually just jump into writing with little else in mind but getting it down, it will usually depend on how much content I want to jam into the chapter or story. I'm not going to count the times where I just slack the fuck off and don't do anything, so I'll say that it takes me several hours to get down minimal content while it takes alot more time to put down fleshed out and descriptive content.

But really though, I never keep track of how fast I write, being I always flak out for long periods of time after wards >_>

[IcedFairy]

Purely random.  I cranked out Chain Reaction in two drug laced hours while chapter 1 of Three Days Bright took 2 weeks of work and 2 more weeks of editing. 

In general it's easier for me to write comedy then drama, and simpler for me to write short pieces then long ones, because I'm terrible with transitioning between scenes.

I also tend to sit on a story for three days to a week before editng it and posting.  This of course is not the case with the weekly fiction pieces, but I'm porbably going to stick with that for my other works.

[Esifex]

If I'm writing it in MSWord, I can take up to an hour or so for everything that I get segmented out for Everlasting Wanderers.
If I'm posting directly into the thread that I'm writing in, I can get a full post up and running in about a half hour or so.
I maintain this pace by adding little tidbits, here and there, and posting them as I feel they round out a scene well enough.

Forsake The Future was something I was working on before I came to MotK, and had that about 2/3rd typed up by the time I started posting it. Once I got started and people started reading it, in turn encouraging me to write more, I finished it up post-by-post at an average of about an hour a post.

[An Odd Sea Slug]

My work ethic stinks to high heaven, so when I do get going, its only a few pages in a few hours or days. This is precisely (that along with a long-lasting S4 League addiction) what took FoTUF nearly 3 years to write. I don't think my next projects will take that long (though one of them is looking like it'll be even longer than FoTUF so we'll see).