Author Topic: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread  (Read 152249 times)

PX

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #570 on: November 26, 2016, 02:59:35 AM »
I finished my Selvala deck and played a 5 man edh game, that was fun

MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #571 on: December 06, 2016, 02:41:55 PM »
New stuff is being spoiled: http://mythicspoiler.com/

So far:
- SO MUCH ARTIFACT LOVE IT MAKES ME HAPPY AND MY EDH DECK HAPPY TOO
-
Spoiler:
Ajani and Tezzeret are the main planeswalkers for this set; Nicol Bolas has not been spoiled yet but he's more or less confirmed from Dark Intimations mentioning a "Bolas planeswalker"-- And yet, Rosewater just said there are only 2 planeswalkers in Aether Revolt a few minutes ago, so who fuckin' knows.

-
Spoiler:
HOLY SHIT DISALLOW OH MY GOD STANDARD ACTUALLY GETS A GOOD COUNTERSPELL FINALLY BLUE HAS A CHANCE TO BE GOOD
- New mechanic:
Spoiler:
Improvise: Basically a less broken combination of Convoke + Affinity; tap artifacts to help pay for mana costs
-
Spoiler:
Heart of Kiran is Aether Revolt's Smuggler's Copter, but while it's very strong, I don't think it's quite as broken due to the Crew cost.

Aether Revolt be lookin' pretty good.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 02:51:21 PM by Matsuri »

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #572 on: December 06, 2016, 03:37:22 PM »
-Trophy Mage is an absolute staple in Commander. Searches like 75% of relevant artifacts.

-Quicksmith Rebel is strong, has an interesting design, and great flavor. Dang, what a cool card.

-Scrap Trawler is RIDICULOUSLY pushed. No way in hell that should ever cost 3.

-Disallow: Best three-mana counterspell ever printed?

-Honk honk planeswalkers there's a bunch of planeswalkers and planeswalker support cards and half the cards have planeswalkers on them OMG guys planeswalkers: Can we be done with this plz?
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MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #573 on: December 06, 2016, 03:41:15 PM »
Yeah. It's only a matter of time before there's a new Doubling Season-esque card that allows for Standard Doubling Planeswalkers. They're all so fucking pushed. Having a planeswalker in your deck doesn't bother me, but Superfriends decks are just so damn annoying and unfun to play against.

And yeah, Scrap Trawler and Trophy Mage are absolutely in my Sydri deck, for sure.

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #574 on: December 06, 2016, 03:59:45 PM »
-With how much Planeswalker cards are getting brought to the forefront in Standard I think there's going to be a lot more cards made to deal with them in the vein of Hero's Downfall or Devour in Flames.
-I'm getting huge Weatherlight vibes from
Spoiler:
Heart of Kiran
although that might just be me.
-I think the
Spoiler:
Bolas effect on the spoiled story card
is mostly to tie it in with a certain upcoming future set.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #575 on: December 19, 2016, 11:24:29 AM »
Recent previews are another planeswalker and another planeswalker support card. What... Even...

Seriously. No more. Is this secretly a fucking planeswalker-themed set or is Wizards just violently blowing their load up front because they think this is all people care about in previews? SHOW ME MORE GODDAMN TRAINS.

Mythic legendary train planeswalker for train Commander plz.
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MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #576 on: December 19, 2016, 05:19:50 PM »
A lot of the issue is that a big chunk of the stuff we know about Aether Revolt so far is from a leak that WotC didn't expect, and they're still playing damage control lol. Preview Season isn't even meant to start for a few weeks yet.

Honestly I'm digging the new Tezzeret; I can make him do work in my EDH deck for sure.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #577 on: December 19, 2016, 05:42:21 PM »
Ah yeah, no accounting for leaks.

Well, hopefully that means the rest of the set is real cards then.

Meanwhile, not sure what to think of Quicksmith Spy. I already like Quicksmith Rebel and on paper this is very similar, but it feels worse somehow. Maybe just because of red's low standards... At any rate it's a nice design. Kind of hope this isn't a full five-color cycle, but I like it in red and blue.
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commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #578 on: January 02, 2017, 10:31:39 PM »
More Aether Revolt previews finally.

-Greenbelt Rampager is a gorgeous design. And it seems... Okay I guess? Maybe really good with that energy elf?

-Aeornaut Admiral makes TRAINS FLY!

-Untethered Express is another train... THAT'S ALSO A DINOSAUR? WHAT THE FUCK! This seals the deal, I'm making a train deck. It's going to suck and it's going to be great. :D
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MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #579 on: January 02, 2017, 11:34:29 PM »
I can kind of see the validity of a White Human Sram deck with a shit-ton of low cost vehicles, auras, and equipment to keep card advantage flowing while boosting dudes.

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #580 on: January 03, 2017, 04:29:36 AM »
Greenbelt Rampager is probably going to find a spot in my R/G energy deck, with Attune With Aether you can very feasibly play it on turn 2.

Fatal Push looks interesting; bad in limited, decent in Standard, is absolutely going to be a staple in Modern.

I get the feeling there's going to be a full cycle of Expertises similar to Sram and Yahenni's and we're going to see them by the end of the week.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #581 on: January 03, 2017, 06:22:00 AM »
-Pacification Array seems absolutely back-breaking in limited. Not sure if it's playable in other formats, but it might be? Definitely an interesting twist on Icy Manipulator.

-Merchant's Porter is the hardest to evaluate Jayemdae Tome I've ever seen. No idea if that's good or not.

-Daaaang Hungry Flames seems good!
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #582 on: January 10, 2017, 03:00:25 AM »
well we got bans in the Standard for the first time since they hit Mind Sculptor/Stoneforge Mystic.

Changes:
-Emrakul, Smuggler's Copter, Reflector Mage banned in Standard
-Gitaxian Probe banned in Modern, Golgari Grave-Troll re-banned
-no Legacy changes despite everybody screaming for the blood of Sensei's Divining Top

The changes come into effect next week when Aether Revolt releases.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #583 on: January 10, 2017, 03:28:12 AM »
Whoah! I expected the Emrakul ban, but I'm really surprised to see Relfector Mage and Smuggler's Copter go. Dang. I admittedly don't follow standard closely.

Interesting.
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MatsuriSakuragi

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #584 on: January 10, 2017, 04:04:35 AM »
With Dredge and Infect being neutered a little, I feel a little more interested in playing Modern again. I haven't been bothering much because both of those decks fucking suck to play against and just make the game not fun to play.

Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #585 on: January 10, 2017, 04:51:31 AM »
Whoah! I expected the Emrakul ban, but I'm really surprised to see Relfector Mage and Smuggler's Copter go. Dang. I admittedly don't follow standard closely.

Interesting.

I saw Copter going because it simply gives way too much value for too few restrictions and any deck that could use it was. Like I said, Reflector Mage surprised me, I didn't think the UW tempo deck in Standard was so oppressive that it needed to be banned (I expected Aetherworks Marvel to go before Reflector Mage, honestly)

With the banhammer being handed out and all the new stuff for Aether Revolt I'm very excited about Standard again.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #586 on: January 10, 2017, 04:55:17 AM »
It's not that I don't understand why Smuggler's Copter was good, I just figured they'd give it some time to see if Aethersphere Harvester would handle it at all. Clearly not, since it looked a bit underpowered anyway. It was obviously made to counter Copter, but I guess they decided after sending the set to print that it wasn't enough in their internal testing.

Edit: And this is great news for that vehicle Commander deck if I decide to go through with making it, since I ideally want foil copies of all playable vehicles. Not sure how much this will tank the price of a foil Smuggler's Copter, but it should definitely dent it.
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #587 on: January 16, 2017, 05:12:18 PM »
Anyway, went 2-2 at prerelease this weekend. Decided to experiment with W/B and then W/B/G.

Pulls:
Sram, Senior Artificier (promo)
Exquisite Archangel (foil)
Aetherwind Basker
Baral, Chief of Compliance
Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
Scrap Trawler
Cultivator of Blades
Kambal, Consul of Allocation
Aethergeode Miner (prize pack)
Tezzeret the Schemer (prize pack)"

MVPs:
Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
Untethered Express
Winding Constrictor

This limited format feels very attrition-heavy and strategic. There's a lot you can do with swinging in with a weak attack and your opponent just letting it through because they don't want to kill a creature and let Revolt trigger. On the other hand, it feels way harder to make expendable tokens than it did in Kaladesh alone, especially since Fabricate isn't in this set.

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #588 on: January 16, 2017, 06:09:19 PM »
I went 2-2 in my prerelease with a white-black shitmess deck. Had to play against first place and second place, and they both opened Quicksmith Rebel, which is utterly format-breaking as far as we can tell. It resolved against me 4/5 possible games, and I won the single game where it didn't get cast. Just felt like a coin flip. Not really fun an all honestly.

The environment feels really sketchy. Like, Kaladesh has all the enablers for all of the non-Revolt strategies so it felt excessively dependent on what you opened in your Kaladesh packs.

Pulled crap from my sealed pool, crap from my prize packs as far as value goes. Two guys next to me opened a foil Heart Of Kiran and a foil Smuggler's Copter+Sword Of War And Peace respectively, so that was cool...

So yeah, not an incredibly positive experience all things considered. My opponents were all perfectly pleasant, but I felt like I played maybe two games out of nine where my decisions actually mattered. The rest were all total one-sided blowouts in one direction or the other.
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commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #589 on: February 16, 2017, 05:01:58 AM »
Anybody see the "Self-Driving Cars" deck MTGGoldfish made? It's pretty magical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4_QSGirAjk

I'm certainly not buying any Heart Of Kirans, but I could swap them out for some trains and put this together pretty cheaply. And I will call it... CAR BOYS!

Although honestly I'm not super interested in playing standard until the fucking Crazy Cat Lady combo is gone. After the all-in deck failed to make much of a splash the new tactic seems to be to cram the pieces into every single deck and just fish for random instant wins, which frankly sounds fucking awful.
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Mеа

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #590 on: February 17, 2017, 04:51:19 PM »
If anyone plays yugioh here even casually or not, there's a HUUUUUUGE paradigm shift incoming with new rules and new cards. Zone placement is now strategic and guess what? You can actually play the game now! The new changes slow down the game considerably to move away from the degenerate turn one unbreakable boards meta that's in vogue now.

...
Or at least until konami loses their minds and starts releasing broken shit again.
But there's a lot of hype floating around from the community, exciting times.
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Jq1790

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #591 on: February 17, 2017, 05:29:29 PM »
They actually had tried some zone placement related cards before but nothing ever took off IIRC.  (See: Blasting Fuse, etc). As much as I don't play anymore I'm kinda interested in seeing how they work with slowing things down and if there'll be player backlash from their lightning fast decks being attacked haha.
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commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #592 on: February 17, 2017, 05:29:49 PM »
Wait what? Interesting.

A buddy and I recently tried to learn Yu Gi Oh together in our ongoing exploration of poorly-conceived Japanese card games and we fucking hated it. It, by all accounts, seems to be an awful game. A huge overhaul is the only thing I can point to as a potential fix. So if they're at least trying to do that then that's something. I will be watching this with interest.

Yu Gi Oh is fascinating to me as a case study in how not to make game and this is an intriguing development.
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Mеа

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #593 on: February 17, 2017, 06:44:22 PM »
I read around a bit more. Ohh hohoh there's a lot of backlash as well. People are split into either loving the new mechanic for attempting to balance an utterly broken game utterly hate it, just loath it. The latter group seems to be divided into the 'I can't play my decks anymore' or some variation of 'you can't just throw away two decades worth of legacy.' This latter one I only saw on jp side which makes sense I guess, tradition and all. Also because people see konami as wanting to make the big buckz off of this by rending a lot of old decks just completely unviable.

I'll try to add some context to the extent of the change for those not familiar with how the game works (or how the game breaks itself) and also because I don't know how far you explored it.
I explained this before here but, again, in yugioh you have a second deck separate from your main deck that you have access to at all times called the extra deck. With the addition of the new rules, there are going to be a whole five different summoning mechanics that work off of the extra deck. That's five sets of rules that govern how you can get these different monsters out of the extra deck onto the field. Like, that's ridiculous, but putting that aside, when you meet the conditions to bring these monsters out, you can play them onto the field by fulfilling those conditions. These days this is piss easy and getting a board full of them in a single turn is no problem for good competitive decks. Since this extra deck is always available to the player, the main deck has devolved into merely an engine to get these extra deck monsters out. As such, most archetypes for the past decade or so have their plays entirely revolving around the extra deck where getting one out tends to snowball into getting more pieces and getting more of these extra decks out. For about the last half year, the meta has been dominated by a tier zero engine that can start plays off of like a single card. How dominating? Like 90% of tournament winning decks feature this archetype level of dominating. It's that bad. And this archetype too needs access to multiple extra deck monsters in order to continue plays.

So what the new rules says is, you can no longer play extra deck monsters on the field anymore because now you can only play main deck monsters in those monster zones. Now, instead you can only play one extra deck monster in your single newly introduced extra deck monster zone on the field. Needless to say, this completely kills a lot of old decks and people are complaining about it. But there is a way to increase the number of extra deck monster zones on the field and that's by using the new type of card called link monsters which also reside in the extra deck, and these cards have freaking ARROWS pointing to other monster zones, and the zones pointed to by these arrows can be used as extra deck monster zones. Every new tv series introduces a new summoning mechanic and people complain about how its going to ruin the game but this one is getting a lot of complaints in particular because some decks are forced to use the new cards. Even the other past new mechanics weren't so obtrusive, they were merely a new kind of mechanic that was just there if you wanted to use them or not. Some old decks can't function without two or more extra deck monster zones and necessarily have to use these new cards. There's an inherent balancing mechanic built into these new link monster cards since the arrows can point to your opponent's side of the field too and give them access to extra deck monsters in that zone. As long as konami really does not fail to keep this check in place, I hope that this will balance the game more.

But I'm really looking forward to this complete overhaul because this game is completely broken and unfun at the top levels of play and creeping down into the lower levels too. The way you play this game now is to not let your opponent play at all. The name of the game is negation and floodgating. Oh you want to play that card? Nope, negated. So your deck is based on this certain summoning mechanic? Well I activate this card that doesn't let you use that mechanic at all for this turn. Like, the game already ended when you lost the rock paper scissors. Your opponent sets up a board you can't get over and good game. It's really horrible. So I'm excited because this backpedaling will introduce more interactions again in the game (what? a two player card game with interactions?? holy carp). But also worried because all of the stuff that makes the game utterly broken right now will still be there and all it takes is a little oversight or greed from konami to bring all that back in.

tldr; go prepare your popcorn
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commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #594 on: February 17, 2017, 07:30:56 PM »
Hmm, thanks for the explanation. That's interesting.

Does this retroactively make any old cards or strategies better directly? Are there old niche mechanics that actually become more powerful because of this? Or are all buffs indirect because strategies that were hedged out by the most degenerate tech are potentially less outclassed now?

It sounds to me like Yu Gi Oh's resource system and approach to card advantage are still fucked to hell, but this is a start at the very least.
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #595 on: February 17, 2017, 08:13:05 PM »
I don't think the new mechanics buff any existing strategies at all, old or new. The only thing it does is limit extra deck spamming really, which... kinda sounds sad actually but yeah. There are/were plenty of viable decks that don't rely on the extra deck (and focused on the main deck) or only needed one extra deck monster at a time that can shine more now. So not so much buffs so much as their (one-sided) competition died. A lot of people are bringing these decks up as arguments about why this change is so dumb. If they don't rely on the extra deck, then these decks' speeds wouldn't be hindered at all and would be the ones to rampage on the tiers. And I suppose I would tend to agree with that, but they're necessarily not as consistent since they have to fish for their play pieces out of the main deck which isn't as immediately accessible. Honestly I'd rather deal with these than with the current negation floodgate 'so do you end your turn with nothing to do or just forfeit?' meta. If they can address some of the more egregious techs in these with the banlist (which I know erks you lol) so that the extra deck is still worth running instead of everyone switching over to main deck-reliant decks (and release support that carefully allows some more freedom for extra deck users again), and people get used to the speed of the new format (which I hope will actually be slower like everyone is hoping and that nothing dumb is discovered that breaks the game), then people will begin to break away from the turbo-spam board-setup mindset that the game had been accelerating towards as the years went on.

But there are a couple of weirdo cards that existed that had no place in any deck like cards that shifted around monster positions or the couple random cards that blocked the usage of zones on the field of your choice that might be tested out for awhile.
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commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #596 on: February 17, 2017, 08:26:21 PM »
For the record, banlist doesn't bother me AT ALL. It's restricted lists that I think are horseshit. Ban away if it fixes your game.
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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #597 on: February 20, 2017, 05:15:21 PM »
We have some info from Toy Fair and recent official announcements on the upcoming Amonkhet/Modern Masters 2017 expansions

-MM17 booster packaging features Domri Rade, Griselbrand, and Stoic Angel
-Amonkhet booster packaging features entirely new characters, including a warrior, some sort of jackal-headed creature, a cat-headed statue, a woman who appears to be some sort of noble, and a sphinx
-Amonkhet will have a mix of standard basic lands and full-art lands, full art lands will appear in approximately 1 out of 4 boosters and are available through certain store programs
-Amonkhet planeswalker decks will be Gideon and Liliana

commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #598 on: February 20, 2017, 05:19:43 PM »
Ooh, I don't mind the idea of full art land being sprinkled in there. On one hand I'd kind of prefer they just commit to all full art basic land all the time, but on the other hand I appreciate some added value and excitement in packs. My best guess is that these land will end up somewhere in the $1.00-$2.00 range (and considerably more for foils) , so they're basically additional rares.

Always happy to see promo artwork that isn't planeswalkers. Granted at least some of these new characters might still be planeswalkers, but seeing Angel Of Invention on Kaladesh packs made me awfully happy. 
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commandercool

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Re: Cardboard rehab: TCG/CCG thread
« Reply #599 on: February 27, 2017, 02:23:43 PM »
I've been wanting to start playing Pauper (the Magic format where you can only play commons) lately, although no place around here runs it regularly that I'm aware of. Does anyone have much experience with it?

I kind of want to try a Pestilence deck but I'm not clear on how it matches up against most of the metagame. Burn seems like it would be very common given the high-quality burn spells and lack of Kor Firewalkers and I can't really easily envision how Pestilence beats burn. I guess most of the sideboard could probably be dedicated to that matchup.

It seems like every color (except maybe white?)  has at least a couple of high-profile too-good-to-print-anymore options that it seems like a waste not to use and the black ones (Dark Ritual and Hymn To Tourach) seem synergistic with this deck. Just not sure those stack up well against Counterspell, Brainstorm, and Lightning Bolt.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.