Author Topic: Puzzle and Dragons Thread 22 - A chocolate brand collaborated with this game??  (Read 163112 times)

inb4 Triple Light Row or SB


on another note, i should make a new sig since Isis finally has a fully optimized team thanks to Hermes
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 03:57:10 AM by Suikama »

Chaore

  • Kai Ni Recipient Many Years Late
  • *
  • You Finally Did It, Kadokawa.
inb4 Triple Light Row or SB

triple light row i'd almost be okay with just because she's still offensively stacked

any sb or support awakenings on her though will make her way stronger and versatile though which

is both good and bad



wait this means mini chiyo ulti is possible too oh god why didn't i roll for one

trancehime

  • 不聖女
  • *
  • 2017年~ 茨心R (希望)
    • himegimi
how to defeat zeus mercury with a green team:

bring a fucking bind clearer green has like 12

awoken ceres basically makes zeus-mercury dumpster tier in difficulty for Green teams.

元素召唤 || pad & msl news translator robit
twitter xx motk resident whale

Heya, I usually don't post in here because I talk to friends about pad stuff but I'm looking for anyone with Awoken Ceres so I can walk through Mercury  :derp:

331,737,355 is my code, I'll have Awoken Ceres up myself for the day and accept anyone who wants to add me.

Notable leaders: Ronia, Dmeta, Lmeta, ACeres, Haku, Athena, Urd, I usually have Ronia and Athena up.

trancehime

  • 不聖女
  • *
  • 2017年~ 茨心R (希望)
    • himegimi
dmeta's hp buff is x1.35

holy mother of god

元素召唤 || pad & msl news translator robit
twitter xx motk resident whale

MatsuriSakuragi

Did DMeta just become legit again?

I do think so.

triangles

  • gotta stock up on dark matter
  • each pound of which weighs over 10,000 pounds
Heya, I usually don't post in here because I talk to friends about pad stuff but I'm looking for anyone with Awoken Ceres so I can walk through Mercury  :derp:

331,737,355 is my code, I'll have Awoken Ceres up myself for the day and accept anyone who wants to add me.

Notable leaders: Ronia, Dmeta, Lmeta, ACeres, Haku, Athena, Urd, I usually have Ronia and Athena up.
I sent you an addification, I'll keep ACeres up in the 2nd slot today.

The Greatest Dog

  • Grazing at Mach 10
  • 90 Frames per Second GO!
... it's a sad day when DMeta gets to walk around with more HP than One True Dog.

Also, Zhao Yun struck me again, by needing to hit level 70 to evolve instead of 50. Fucker.

MatsuriSakuragi

Well don't forget that DMeta is an HP conditional LS too, which needs your hp to be under 80%. So realistically your working hp is still 20% less than it would seem to be. This just makes it so being at <80% doesn't necessarily put you at OHKO range in a meta that perpetually has fucked DMeta over by random full HP recovery pre-emptives and ever stronger attacks. DMeta since has kind of fallen to sub utility status, which is kind of sad considering her massive power and potential when used properly. That and as time has progressed, she's gained a lot more utility subs to work with too, which is nice. DIza is gonna be a great friend here now as long as you don't get her recovery awakenings.

commandercool

  • alter cool
Did DMeta just become legit again?

I do think so.

You think so? I never played her before, so I don't know how she used to work. How much of her damage is row-based. Can she kill minibosses without rows? On paper she's never seemed great to me because she can't really take hits and she only has room for so many orbchangers, which means she can only do rows much, but not all, of the time. But yeah, I'm probably just real misinformed.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

MatsuriSakuragi

DMeta is fueled by rows, yes, but since there have been lots of new developments in the meta I'm sure you could get by running TPA on her, too. But 16x is a totally respectable multiplier for standard killing, too.

DMeta used to be EXTREMELY touchy in the past, since she was limited to attackers, which had shitty HP and were mostly REM only. After her ult her sub pool expanded big time, but with her LS being what it is it made her still way too hard to use in descends.

She's always been a glass cannon. This new development makes her less so and makes her viable again, I feel. There are a lot more orb changers for her to use now than there were in the past, and with her new upgrade here you can even get by with Hanzo's shit HP.

As far as her being limited to rows, imagine running her with new ult persephone, awoken Haku, and so on. Massive double tpas and such! Worth a shot.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 04:24:34 PM by Guildmarm Matsri »

Chaore

  • Kai Ni Recipient Many Years Late
  • *
  • You Finally Did It, Kadokawa.
You think so? I never played her before, so I don't know how she used to work. How much of her damage is row-based. Can she kill minibosses without rows? On paper she's never seemed great to me because she can't really take hits and she only has room for so many orbchangers, which means she can only do rows much, but not all, of the time. But yeah, I'm probably just real misinformed.

she'll be dropped because people will get a heart skyfall, call game rigged, and go back to pandora


in seriousness the hp buff will make her able to do things like c10 i feel, but she won't regain her former popularity because people will be pretty blunt in saying that she's too much hassle for a x4 lead

i don't honestly ever think she really stopped being viable after the ultimate so much as a poorer choice in a game that's long outgrown her (for good reason), a lot of people are going to look at her the same as they look at heroes right now 'why the hell should i think when i can catstet/a.ra/a.shiva/chinasystem/becomeanornslave' and never consider the possibilities

especially when they are initiallly faced with the fact the game was made to actually -challenge- her now and they will have to consider 'when, how, and what' to use, and maybe even to consider playing her in a manner that involves actually taking more than one hit HOLY SHIT especially now that she might as well be equivalent to a weird as shit tank team

dark metatrons problem is ultimately the playerbase's expectations and long-term memory- they'll remember her as a brainless team and expect that, and drop her when she's not that

MatsuriSakuragi

I've always seen her as anything but brainless. Whereas a lot of teams' strats lie in combo number or color matching, DMeta is all about resource management. You need to know precisely how much damage you can sustain and recover at any given time or you are literally fucked with her. She has gained a lot of resources in recent times, but a lot of descends have counters that outright fuck her over, like enemies that refill your HP or enemies that just straight up punch harder than you can handle while under your damage threshold of HP. That or dark absorb. Fuck dark absorb.

So it's less a matter of worrying about being able to punch hard enough, because there aren't many things that can survive a head on burst with DMeta-- it's a matter of being able to manage the gimmicks and keep the momentum going consistently because before now, there weren't many hits you could afford to take.

commandercool

  • alter cool
16x is a number I've never really played with, so I don't know exactly what to expect for round-to-round damage from it.

At any rate, she sounds significantly different than anything I've used so far. Given that I already have the actual lady herself and Durga maxed already, and I probably want to max her orbchange buddies anyway, I might as well make her team and try it. I don't expect to use it often, but it might be fun because it's new.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Chaore

  • Kai Ni Recipient Many Years Late
  • *
  • You Finally Did It, Kadokawa.
She has gained a lot of resources in recent times, but a lot of descends have counters that outright fuck her over, like enemies that refill your HP or enemies that just straight up punch harder than you can handle while under your damage threshold of HP. That or dark absorb. Fuck dark absorb.

She has gained resources to deal with those things in the end.

The main reason hp refill enemies were a counter to her in the first place is you had to stop simply blowing everything up and consider how to take the next hit and go from there. Even before she obtained her ultimate, Dark Metatron was easily capable of defeating Athena- where almost every enemy had a hp refill, and the first enemy would destroy you before you could take a hit. She didn't even need a majorly changed team- she just needed to rethink said team a little to deal.

In short, most of those counters were 'counter's because people still wanted to just punch them to death. Those are what changed Dmeta from a team that was absurdly powerful and could easily do most content in the game almost brainlessly to something that required thinking. And even then, a lot of it took a while to fully start unloading itself into the game. Dmeta dominated for a long time and people will expect her to dominate in the same fashion is what i'm getting at- I'm worried, and expecting, that players will expect the early ages of DMeta where she dominated in that fashion, despite the fact the game has changed thoroughly.

So it's less a matter of worrying about being able to punch hard enough, because there aren't many things that can survive a head on burst with DMeta--

This is really my main worry in terms of actual balance instead of playerbase, though. I'm not entirely sure how much of the game falls like dominoes to Dmeta nearly as much anymore due to number game- and for content like the rushes and C10, I'm almost certain you'll have to drop that mentality immediately.

I'm just not sure how impressive Dmeta's actual firepower is in the grand scheme of the game anymore. Especially as it has to endlessly deal with the existence of cards like A.Indians and A. Egypts slowly appearing more and more.

The Greatest Dog

  • Grazing at Mach 10
  • 90 Frames per Second GO!
I've always seen her as anything but brainless. Whereas a lot of teams' strats lie in combo number or color matching, DMeta is all about resource management.

[...]
So it's less a matter of worrying about being able to punch hard enough, because there aren't many things that can survive a head on burst with DMeta-- it's a matter of being able to manage the gimmicks and keep the momentum going consistently because before now, there weren't many hits you could afford to take.

Basically applicable to Purin as well. If I'm allowed to reach the boss with skills up, that boss better be prepared for a 15+ million burst.

... that said, I can probably afford to use Purin's enhance for killing trash mobs since Apocalypse+Valkyrie+LZL is already so overkill.

Unfortunately all the +eggs in the world can only carry me so far with 1/4 RCV. To have a hope of clearing any more descends, I would probably need a skill maxed Fuu and a lot of luck in orb drops. God forbid a gravity happens.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 06:56:15 PM by Fast Fanatc »

I sent you an addification, I'll keep ACeres up in the 2nd slot today.
Thanks! Now I just have to check repeatedly every hour thanks to the massive rank difference. _(⌒(_'ω' )_

MatsuriSakuragi

She has gained resources to deal with those things in the end.

The main reason hp refill enemies were a counter to her in the first place is you had to stop simply blowing everything up and consider how to take the next hit and go from there. Even before she obtained her ultimate, Dark Metatron was easily capable of defeating Athena- where almost every enemy had a hp refill, and the first enemy would destroy you before you could take a hit. She didn't even need a majorly changed team- she just needed to rethink said team a little to deal.

In short, most of those counters were 'counter's because people still wanted to just punch them to death. Those are what changed Dmeta from a team that was absurdly powerful and could easily do most content in the game almost brainlessly to something that required thinking. And even then, a lot of it took a while to fully start unloading itself into the game. Dmeta dominated for a long time and people will expect her to dominate in the same fashion is what i'm getting at- I'm worried, and expecting, that players will expect the early ages of DMeta where she dominated in that fashion, despite the fact the game has changed thoroughly.

And it has changed thoroughly, yeah. That's why I feel she kind of needed the sub pool expansion and the HP buff to keep her validity in the meta alive. And yeah, I'm aware those were counters to keep her from demolishing, but in most cases, especially back then, it was hella fucking hard to come up with anything better that worked for her because her best subs were so REM-specific and you were kinda boned unless you had them. That's why I stopped maining her after a while-- I realized I wasn't clearing any descends with her because I lacked the resources needed to make her work.



Quote
This is really my main worry in terms of actual balance instead of playerbase, though. I'm not entirely sure how much of the game falls like dominoes to Dmeta nearly as much anymore due to number game- and for content like the rushes and C10, I'm almost certain you'll have to drop that mentality immediately.

I'm just not sure how impressive Dmeta's actual firepower is in the grand scheme of the game anymore. Especially as it has to endlessly deal with the existence of cards like A.Indians and A. Egypts slowly appearing more and more.

True, it's easier to achieve monstrous damage now from newer cards. In fact, she probably doesn't even hold a candle to a lot of stuff now. But she does have a TON of resources to work with now since she can use attackers AND gods since her ult, and her HP means she can stand to take more hits. Combine that with a DIza sub and you've got a much less glass cannon build and a much more tank build that has a lot of potential, especially since you'll be running with a lot of resist capability to keep you alive.

Meanwhile we've had ult Pandora, new ult Persephone, devil!Haku, and so on come into the game too, which can give rows and orbs for days. With just those three you'll be sitting at 10 rows which is a flat 100% more damage across the board, putting her at a respectable 32x damage (which is still further enhanced by DMeta's active). Still not up with the best of the meta, but you also don't have to fulfill any other requirements than "make rows" as long as you're in HP range, unlike AIndians who need heart combos or combo count, or AEgyptians who require matching or combos. (And even then comparing an ult to an Awoken is kind of an unfair comparison because Awokens are kind of ridiculously great by default and require a lot more work to put together). DMeta has always been more of a "get hurt and GO GO GO KILL OR BE KILLED" kind of style and I'm happy they're taking steps to make her more usable in that sense, especially since I've not used her as a lead for ages (even though she's a fantastic sub on many parts!).

I can see her being able to handle rushes and c10 now, and I never would have even thought she could before. Just balance your orb changers and stat sticks and go for it. Thinking harder about it, putting two DIza on your team would take away some of your punching power, but at the same time, even without +99 HP, they'll straight up give you 17151 HP at max level with DMeta's HP multiplier, and a perpetual 35% resist (45% to dark with DIza's resist awakenings? I dunno how the math works between skills and awakes.) making it last even longer. That's insane-- back in the day when I mained DMeta, I struggled to have that much HP with my whole team (of course I can top it NOW but yeah), and there it is with two units out of six. And taking that into account, maybe having her recovery awakenings won't be as disastrous as I originally thought-- that's a LOT of HP to cover.

There's a lot of potential here if you play your cards right. Especially since you'll be working with Osiris-tier HP, who can handle stuff like that with 12.25x damage and TPAs. (granted, he also has huge recovery capabilities, too, and you don't want that on DMeta, but still).

Chaore

  • Kai Ni Recipient Many Years Late
  • *
  • You Finally Did It, Kadokawa.
There's a lot of potential here if you play your cards right. Especially since you'll be working with Osiris-tier HP, who can handle stuff like that with 12.25x damage and TPAs. (granted, he also has huge recovery capabilities, too, and you don't want that on DMeta, but still).

Yeah this is where I kind of got the idea of her potentially becoming a 'really weird tank team' now instead of normal.

Due to the hp conditional being hideously biased in her favor, i think she might even -want- rcv now because her hit tanking range is so high, so she can just take all the hits and get dropped down for her next turn anyway, instead of the old style of 'get hit and you're done' play.

MatsuriSakuragi

Hmm, that's true-- especially so since with the setup I mentioned, you'd be perpetually taking less damage as it is. It'd be a worthy investment as long as you are sure you can take the next hit, yeah. But at this point, you probably should be able to unless you're talking c10 damage or just straight up fuckoff attack damage.

i choked on lv 6

someone teach me how to not be bad

Mr. Sacchi

  • All shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well.
  • Not postponed. Not in the end. Not for long.
Although I am now busy and my phone doesn't want to connect to my computer for some reason, thanks to Matsy's Awoken meimei I cleared challenge 7.

...After 3 stones, attributed to getting heart starved on masks despite clearing 2/3s for the board, Matsy's meimei getting bound by thoth and my hand slipping when I was going to do a healing combo.

Still though, Awoken Horus is now Hypermax - my first hypermax, yay~!

(gibe asterisk pls)

@Edit:



gibe asterisk pls
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 12:59:28 AM by Toyosatomimi No Sacchi »

MatsuriSakuragi

i choked on lv 6

someone teach me how to not be bad


(seriously kirin's been my lv6 killer forever)


Meanwhile after a shameful 5-stone of Lv9, I no-stoned Lv8.

A no-RCV stage.

With Awoken Parvati.

Who NEEDS hearts to work.

God bless this majestic golden goddess.

lol i can't match 4 atts with izanami time slow i cant even make 2 rows with 4 time awakenings ripppppp


commandercool

  • alter cool
Cleared everything up through eight, now I just need to decide if I want to try nine. I don't really have a great setup for ten. Gabriel can do it, but it would take some luck and possibly a couple stones, and I don't feel like it. Guess I should to nine with Ra those. I got nothing else particular going on tonight, PAD-wise.
I made a PADHerder. It's probably out of date though.

Chaore

  • Kai Ni Recipient Many Years Late
  • *
  • You Finally Did It, Kadokawa.


mfw garyou tensei

shoulda brought poison :V

MatsuriSakuragi

I have everything done except for 10 now and it has the prize I want most. But after yesterday's fiasco with 9 I have no idea how to go about it.

Mr. Sacchi

  • All shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well.
  • Not postponed. Not in the end. Not for long.
I have everything done except for 10 now and it has the prize I want most. But after yesterday's fiasco with 9 I have no idea how to go about it.



you can do it