Touhou: Awareness of Color Mafia. Day 3.

[ActionDan]

In the only game I've run here I had my 3 sks choose a modifier during confirmation phase.  I feel the same thing could easily have happened instead of some random affliction

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

That's a pretty interesting role.

##Vote ActionDan

I oppose the no lynch.
Also, lolChaore.

[Chaore]

The difference is that Night 0 is mentioned as a thing, regardless if they're one in the same.

No one else uses the term Night 0, and literally the few times I've seen it mentioned something tends to happen during it.

I did not act during it, so uh, sorry. Bubble burst.

This is basically what everyone else was expecting and Dan had said anyway, I just said that Night 0 was a thing. Did you like...not realize this?

[Raikaria]

Eh; I thought I found a scumslip but it appears not. People are providing good reasons why it's not which is a lot better than usual when people just slap me and say I'm wrong and don't explain why.

I'm not gonna tug on the string I found anymore. I'm convinced I was following a false lead now. [Although I will put that lead to the side in case something later makes it relevant]

[Dr Rawr]

you know cf7 if you look at dans post upside down the i looks like an upside down !

[Raikaria]

I knew about N0 but I was under the impression it was just a term used for the Conformation Phase. I did not think anyone would act during it since I have never seen a game where someone can act during the Confirmation Phase.

[SB]

I don't think Dan is worth lynching on play but I have no idea if this'll happen again or not and kind of don't want to use the no lynch here? I dunno. I think Dan should probably fullclaim, and he should also check the timestamp of the post restriction message if he can do that?

If Raikaria is going to call me scum for lurking (which is lol for D1 in general) he needs to actually comment on the substance of my posts rather than just fearmongering based on activity.

I don't really like how Bard switched off to Oarfish tbh. What makes this game different from Villains 2, where he had similar crackpot cases there iirc? It looks like you're attacking a case for being bad rather than because he's scummy.

Don't like how Zak backs off to what's basically a prodvote either. Who is scum?

@NNR, was referring to #90 in my last post.

[Dr Rawr]

anyways i dont really have any scum reads at the moment. i was going to vote massaca for following up on oarfishes reasons for voting actiondan. but given the turn of events i see the both of them in a better light

[Chaore]

I knew about N0 but I was under the impression it was just a term used for the Conformation Phase. I did not think anyone would act during it since I have never seen a game where someone can act during the Confirmation Phase.

yeah, that's why I was skeptical of Dan for a while (if not full blown Oarfish), I didn't figure it was worth following at all though.

I don't think MOTK even has double digit numbers of games that have any kind of night 0.

I think I'd rather we have a better idea of the people willing to lynch Dan before we ask for a fullclaim, if Most of the town REALLY wants to save him he should save what he is. More chance he'll survive the night if he's important.

[Chaore]

I should also stop talking about Dan and properly read what happened before now that I'm not poker sleep deprived.

1/20 life is sad.

[Dr Rawr]

More chance he'll survive the night if he's important.

it couldnt possibly be that important, he did say it was anti town :V

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I should probably post my reasoning for opposing the no lynch and so it is as follows:

• I don't think it's a good idea to no lynch on the first day of a 16 player game.
• I don't really see Dan as being super amazingly awesome town and so it is not exchanging him for a D1 no lynch.

Anyway, I guess I'll try to catch up on everything else sometime soon?.

[Chaore]

it couldnt possibly be that important, he did say it was anti town :V

god damnit rawr

[Bardiche]

Either a cunning scum gambit, or a power originating from an anti-Town player. Either way, I think it's sufficient reason to say AD is probably not the scum we're looking for.

##Vote: No Lynch

[CF7]

Votes so far.

ActionDan (3): CF7, Dr Rawr, Dormio
No_Lynch (3): Dorian, Raikaria, Just

Not voting.
Chaore, BT, Moridin84, Zakeri, Massaca, Schezo, O4rfish, SB, Serela, NNR, ActionDan

With 16 alive it takes 9 votes to lynch someone.

You still have  1 day, 8 hours and 30 minutes to make a decision.

[Moridin]

This is old hat at this point but promised so here you go...

- Basically after I and Serala jump on the Dormio, Just and Schezo criticize it for bad play. Neither positive nor negative points for this.
- Zakeria accuses Massaca fpr being on the wagon. Either TOWN trolling for information, a player making a joke post, a MAFIA player trying to cause confusion, a MAFIA player trying derail a lynch on a MAFIA player to a TOWN player.
- Serala counter votes on Zakeria, Dorion counter votes on Serala and then Raikaria counter votes on Dorion.

After that it gets confusing.

It's a bit weird that Zakeria accuses Massaca opposed to myself or Serala for wagoning. I'd be inclined to think that Zakeria was pushing to heat off Serala for wagoning by targeting another player on the wagon. So maybe Zakeria and Serala are both MAFIA? Serala counter votes onto Zakeria but that's probably just misdirection.

Uhhhh, this is probably stretching the bounds of logic a lot. Not the slightest bit convinced of it myself. An interesting idea though.

Here's two good reasons.

If people voice opinions on who is town, that person is less motivated to prove themselves as town, so stops putting as much effort into the game.
If people voice opinions on who they think is town, that person becomes a very good target for the scum nightkill due to town's confidence in that person.

If you get killed by MAFIA before bringing up your reads though...

Or are you planning on doing that before the game is over?

I did not act during it, so uh, sorry. Bubble burst.

This is basically what everyone else was expecting and Dan had said anyway, I just said that Night 0 was a thing. Did you like...not realize this?

I figured he was lying about it not relating to his role. That he wanted to talk about his post restriction but didn't want to give people an idea who is character was, since that would give them a hint of his abilities.

[Moridin]

Before the TURN, or rather phase, is over I mean.

[O4rfish]

Either a cunning scum gambit, or a power originating from an anti-Town player.

Those would be the same thing, considering a power has definitely been used and a Town player would probably have claimed by now.

Either way, I think it's sufficient reason to say AD is probably not the scum we're looking for.

What exactly says that ActionDan is not scum?

[O4rfish]

If you get killed by MAFIA before bringing up your reads though...

People who are dead usually have their reads ignored though.

[Dorian White]

If I'm not mistaken then the main reason why a day one no-lynch sets town back is the lack of wagon analysis, right?
So what kind of analysis do you hope to get out of ?this Dan wagon??

[Moridin]

What exactly says that ActionDan is not scum?

I believe the idea that is MAFIA wouldn't use it on a MAFIA player and that if a TOWN player had that ability, they would have claimed it by now.

People who are dead usually have their reads ignored though.

Wouldn't you trust them more? At least they are reads from a confirmed TOWN player right? Assuming he flips TOWN of course.

If I'm not mistaken then the main reason why a day one no-lynch sets town back is the lack of wagon analysis, right?
So what kind of analysis do you hope to get out of ?this Dan wagon??

It seems like Dormio was third on the wagon so he must be MAFIA.

Hohoho.

[Bardiche]

What exactly says that ActionDan is not scum?

That it's unlikely a Pro-Town player randomly hit ActionDan with a malign post restriction instead of (reasonably) not deploying it Night 0. It probably originates from Scum, given how incredibly anti-Town this ability is.

[Dr Rawr]

i was thinking more like thin the numbers since we have 16 players. also nothing is guaranteeing actiondan isnt scum. but yea i agree actiondan is more likely town

Wouldn't you trust them more? At least they are reads from a confirmed TOWN player right? Assuming he flips TOWN of course.

just because they are confirmed town doesnt make them correct.

[Serela]

Having played here for years, the reads of dead townies usually doesn't mean much unless they were, like, a cop whose reads might include significant hints at their results.

Anyway, LOL ActionDan getting screwed by a post restriction, at least it's not me this time! But yeah, when you think about it logically, it's either a hilarious(ly stupid) scum gambit (aka scum used it on scum) or, more realistically, AD is town. Dorian also has a point about a forced Dan lynch lacking as much information as the d1 lynch normally gives in the first place, although I'd still go for it if it wasn't that Dan most likely isn't scum.

I can't believe I'm actually arguing in favor of NL on day one. :T Normally that'd be like, the worst thing and people try to murder anyone who seriously suggests it.

##Vote No Lynch

Anyway I'm exhausted and need to go lie down

[CF7]

2:00 am, before i go to meet the Sandman, vote count.

ActionDan (3): CF7, Dr Rawr, Dormio
No_Lynch (4): Dorian, Raikaria, Just, Serela

Not voting.
Chaore, BT, Moridin84, Zakeri, Massaca, Schezo, O4rfish, SB, NNR, ActionDan

With 16 alive it takes 9 votes to lynch someone.

You still have  1 day, ~8 hours to make a decision.

[Moridin]

I'd be inclined to go for an ActionDan lynch.

We aren't really SURE that ActionDan is TOWN, so we are probably going to end up lynching him anyway.

Also we get to confirm a few things by doing so.
1) ActionDan was TOWN
2) Some player has the ability to put a vote restrictions on other people
3) There was a Night 0 and some players were able to do actions

Checking through all anti-ActionDan posts would also be worthwhile if he was confirmed as TOWN.

Having played here for years, the reads of dead townies usually doesn't mean much unless they were, like, a cop whose reads might include significant hints at their results.

At least they aren't intentionally wrong. And you'd think that MAFIA would try and hit dangerous TOWN players first.

[Schezo]

Break post.  oh boy.

Regardless of Dan's flip there isn't going to be any wagon anal since you were all forced to vote him anyway. 
No one is going to be like "wow good job on that bang up case on Dan he flipped scum" or "I'm gunning for Dormio since he wanted dan to get lynched and he was town" since Dan is the only lynch target. 

At this point we just need to nl the day away anyways.  No one wants to play "You know who I would get if Dan wasn't the only guy I could vote" since it all always goes back to him anyways. 
##Vote: No Lynch

That said I'm going to make a case on who I would lynch today when I'm done at work

[Serela]

We aren't really SURE that ActionDan is TOWN, so we are probably going to end up lynching him anyway.

Also we get to confirm a few things by doing so.
1) ActionDan was TOWN
2) Some player has the ability to put a vote restrictions on other people
3) There was a Night 0 and some players were able to do actions

Checking through all anti-ActionDan posts would also be worthwhile if he was confirmed as TOWN.

1.I'unno, I think this is a pretty good reason to not end up lynching him anyway? Unless he starts looking super scummy or gets incriminated via roles or something I guess, it's not like he's ~*~confirmed town~*~ but this is a pretty decent indicator so I can't see myself wanting his lynch in the future without a -very good reason-.

2.Erm, aren't #2 and #3 already basically confirmed? (At least as far as Dan's flip would anyway) I mean the mod has more than confirmed Dan totally got a post restriction, and Dan has quite distinctly implied that this is indeed what the bad effect of breaking it is supposed to be, as otherwise he'd have said something about it to the contrary.

Also, yes, confirmation phase is not normally also called "Night 0", and N0 actions are uncommon but certainly not unheard of. It was implied enough at game start for the possibility to be completely non-strange.

3.Not as useful as you think it is. Townies try to lynch other townies all the time. Not to mention this happened before the day really got started, so... all you have to look at are the people who wanted to vote Dan because of him having a PR for some reason. And that's already scummy by itself imo.

[O4rfish]

3.Not as useful as you think it is. Townies try to lynch other townies all the time. Not to mention this happened before the day really got started, so... all you have to look at are the people who wanted to vote Dan because of him having a PR for some reason. And that's already scummy by itself imo.

Are you attacking me because of this post? Because if you are, I think you should address its points rather than say "it was bad, and since we've already proven Dan is town, therefore O4rfish is scum"

If Dan was Town he had no reason to spend lots of effort drawing attention to his PR and if he was Scum he had a very good reason to. This is still true. Look at this post. Is this the post of a Town who has had a PR placed on them by Scum? I say it doesn't look like it.

[Massaca]

Just skimmed real quick, just this for now.

That it's unlikely a Pro-Town player randomly hit ActionDan with a malign post restriction instead of (reasonably) not deploying it Night 0. It probably originates from Scum, given how incredibly anti-Town this ability is.

06. Everyone is compulsive and can use only one night action during the night, unless specified otherwise.

And it's hardly "incredibly" anti-town considering how easy it should be to not break it. If it was a scum ability why choose one of the players likely to make way less posts to muck up?


Pedit: did go read Dan's posts again, I may have screwed up in understanding shit again (surprise surprise) but would you or would you not have gained powers from not breaking this restriction?

But I want to ask Massaca why he thinks I painted a target on my back when

1) If I claim additional anti-town ability/power/effect/whatever why the dastardly bastards trying to kill us all would actually want to off an anti-town "/"/"/"

2) Everyone has some kind of role anyway.

I took it as that you gained additional abilities for completing the restrictions. To me these seem likely to be better than what most people would have gotten free since you have to work for them, or at least I assumed past today. Do you know if you would have had another restriction come tomorrow or was it today only?
And anti-town or not, they can be just as bad to scum.