Touhou Rage Thread XVI: Last-Second Clipdeaths Edition

[ILikeBulletZ]

that's SA Extra for you, it's not that bad once you learn it, but it's some difficult learning to do. Maybe you'd like to take a look at this

Yeah I know, that's just how Extras work alright...

But this one simply gives the impression that it is harder and longer than the other extras! I have already reached Koishi around 12 times or so, and I am nowhere close to beating her!. Usually by the 3rd or 4th or at most 5th time, I got to clear the Extra Stage (I am only counting the times I reached the respective EX boss, not counting the endless times I restarted the stage of course) of any given game so far (Not counting my very first Extra Boss, Ran... I dunno how many tries she took, probably 20 or so xD)... this one has more than twice the retries than that and my best was getting to around HALF the fight only! The difference is ridiculous...

Koishi is the real Phantasm boss, that's what I am trying to say. No other Extra Boss matches her, in my opinion... I doubt TD! Extra boss can even get remotely on her level, but I will see that later...

Coming off of a card having used 1 or 2 bombs is a hell of a lot better than blowing through a life and 2 full sets of reserves.

If only I could do that...

Ran in PCB starts off with Wizard Fox Thoughts. Granted, the "trick" is a lot easier and you're not penalized as much for bombing, but if you don't know what to expect and you start moving around too much, you'll still die horribly. (I know I did the first time I reached her.)

I know, I was actually thinking about the same thing when I wrote that.

But, as you just said, the trick is both a lot easier to figure out (Compared to this anyway) AND easier to execute. AND you don't get penalized for bombing that much either. Lets also ignore the Border...Anyway yeah, its a complete joke Spell Card almost immediately.

Really? It was probably the easiest extra for me (after Ran). It's laughable if you go with MarisaB or SakuyaA and have a good knowledge of the timings.

TD Extra is absolute hell. Mamizou's outline danmaku are the worst, especially the dogs. Also TD's life system is pretty harsh, so I wish you luck when you get there. Try to activate your trance mode wisely, you'll need it.

Seeing as I already don't particularly like TD that much (It doesn't seems to like me either) PRECICELY BECAUSE of the extremely harsh resource system (And also because its just simply kinda boring to play but thats for another thread), that's one of the lowest priorities things I plan to do. That Extra can wait, its going to be the very last Extra I shall clear.

[Esper]

Yeah I know, that's just how Extras work alright...

But this one simply gives the impression that it is harder and longer than the other extras! I have already reached Koishi around 12 times or so, and I am nowhere close to beating her!. Usually by the 3rd or 4th or at most 5th time, I got to clear the Extra Stage (I am only counting the times I reached the respective EX boss, not counting the endless times I restarted the stage of course) of any given game so far (Not counting my very first Extra Boss, Ran... I dunno how many tries she took, probably 20 or so xD)... this one has more than twice the retries than that and my best was getting to around HALF the fight only! The difference is ridiculous...

Koishi is the real Phantasm boss, that's what I am trying to say. No other Extra Boss matches her, in my opinion... I doubt TD! Extra boss can even get remotely on her level, but I will see that later...


If only I could do that...


I know, I was actually thinking about the same thing when I wrote that.

But, as you just said, the trick is both a lot easier to figure out (Compared to this anyway) AND easier to execute. AND you don't get penalized for bombing that much either. Lets also ignore the Border...Anyway yeah, its a complete joke Spell Card almost immediately.



Seeing as I already don't particularly like TD that much (It doesn't seems to like me either) PRECICELY BECAUSE of the extremely harsh resource system (And also because its just simply kinda boring to play but thats for another thread), that's one of the lowest priorities things I plan to do. That Extra can wait, its going to be the very last Extra I shall clear.

Regarding SA Extra, yeah, a lot of Koishi's stuff is memoshit. Watch some replays and try to look at how they tackle it. You SHOULD use the SA Boss Rush patch if you can, though. It's a godsend for people who struggle with the boss rather than the stage.

Regarding TD, you don't have to play it if you don't want to. Video games are supposed to be fun, not "Ugh I want to kill myself" or something to that effect. The only time you should ever feel that way with a game is if you review video games for a living.

The thing is that you CAN come off of a card using only 1 or 2 bombs. It's called bombing cards that you know are a problem. Wait until after you clear the level to go back and retry cards for a capture. If I had the choice of "not 1cc'ing UFO Luna because I lost fifteen bombs without using them because I suck at the game" and "1cc'ing UFO Luna with a lot of resources left because I've seen the game enough times to know what's going to make me want to kill myself and what's going to be easy to deal with", I'd obviously choose the second one. The only exception is Extra bosses because they're usually immune to bombs. Extra is where you just bomb when you feel like a death is oncoming.

[ILikeBulletZ]

Regarding SA Extra, yeah, a lot of Koishi's stuff is memoshit. Watch some replays and try to look at how they tackle it. You SHOULD use the SA Boss Rush patch if you can, though. It's a godsend for people who struggle with the boss rather than the stage.

Regarding TD, you don't have to play it if you don't want to. Video games are supposed to be fun, not "Ugh I want to kill myself" or something to that effect. The only time you should ever feel that way with a game is if you review video games for a living.

The thing is that you CAN come off of a card using only 1 or 2 bombs. It's called bombing cards that you know are a problem. Wait until after you clear the level to go back and retry cards for a capture. If I had the choice of "not 1cc'ing UFO Luna because I lost fifteen bombs without using them because I suck at the game" and "1cc'ing UFO Luna with a lot of resources left because I've seen the game enough times to know what's going to make me want to kill myself and what's going to be easy to deal with", I'd obviously choose the second one. The only exception is Extra bosses because they're usually immune to bombs. Extra is where you just bomb when you feel like a death is oncoming.

Well yeah its not like I HATE TD, In fact I think its a decent game.

Its just... well, its just a merely "Decent" game in a series of "Very Good" games In my opinion, I don't know if you understand what I am trying to say. Its not bad, its enjoyable every now and then, but I tend to prefer the other games.

My idea of fun is precisely beating a game that's hard enough for it to be capable of kicking my ass until I get good enough to return the favor-Overcoming big challenges. That's in fact, why I got into Touhou in the first place, for its difficulty, not for its characters or music or bullet patterns (Although, of course I have come to love it for all those aspects as well now that I actually play them!)

And as for the resource usage... well its different when fighting an EX boss because their immune to bombs... so you can just end the Spell like that, you need to at least be somewhat consistent.

My main problem was (still kinda is) Koishi?s very first spell because it absolutely murders my resources. Its not just about that one life and like 4 bombs. Its also the fact after that pattern I am left with 1 or 2 power which in turn makes everything after that take longer to kill and thus more probabilities for me to die which means I get no Life Piece and also makes me weak again which makes me more likely to die again and OMG!!! I hate the power/bomb /live system in SA sometimes :/

I... this might sound silly but I am not sure if I want to do the Bosh Rush thing. Since not everyone has access to that and it would just sort of cheapen my Extra Clear, that's how I feel anyway (And I am too lazy to install it ) Similarly, I don't really want to watch replays unless I ABSOLUTLY, DEFINITIVLY NEED to see one!-I like figuring out stuff by myself.

Besides its not like I can do the Stage itself consistently enough, some more practice on it wouldn't hurt... Once start to capture the first spell semi consistently I am pretty sure I Should be good enough to do this.

[Kappa]

Is there any strat to the first midboss spellcard in DDC's Extra WHATSOEVER, because most of the stuff in this stage is piss easy and it's starting to irritate me how my ability to get to the boss hinges on this piece of crap.
I mean restarting because of the midboss nonspell is annoying too but at least that mostly feels like my fault.  Because it kinda is.  It's slow enough to keep track of walls.
And additionally I don't want to forsake the POC against the yellow glob shooters right after the midboss, is there any trick to that that doesn't involve me strategy-bombing for 2.0s?

[ふねん1]

Is there any strat to the first midboss spellcard in DDC's Extra WHATSOEVER, because most of the stuff in this stage is piss easy and it's starting to irritate me how my ability to get to the boss hinges on this piece of crap.
I mean restarting because of the midboss nonspell is annoying too but at least that mostly feels like my fault.  Because it kinda is.  It's slow enough to keep track of walls.
And additionally I don't want to forsake the POC against the yellow glob shooters right after the midboss, is there any trick to that that doesn't involve me strategy-bombing for 2.0s?

The red notes always curve left and the blue notes always curve right. Both bullets also start curving around the same spot (halfway up to the sisters), and always to about the same degree. You can use that to anticipate where they're gonna move.

I've never tried to get 2.0s from the fairies after the midbosses, but I try to take advantage of their surprisingly low health. Granted, I also main Reimu, who has homing shots to help out, but with her I'm able to take out fairies on the other side of the screen before they fire off more than a few waves. The pattern goes: I kill a fairy, move to the other side while dodging, kill the other fairy, then kill the first fairy in the next pair, PoC, and go back to the other side. Looking at a video, if you're going for 2.0s, I would hold off on the PoC until you kill at least 4 fairies (or 5, not sure exactly how many items they drop).

[Kappa]

The red notes always curve left and the blue notes always curve right. Both bullets also start curving around the same spot (halfway up to the sisters), and always to about the same degree. You can use that to anticipate where they're gonna move.

Eh... thanks for the advice anyway, but sadly that's stuff I've already identified.  Methinks it suffers from Double Black Death Butterfly syndrome, and so does the other spellcard.  No real trick to it, it's just tough and annoying.
The difference between it and the one after it being that I can capture String Ensemble sometimes.  Fuck Joruri World and all it stands for, my official strategy for that is "hit X twice".  I'm content with 7 resource drops from capping the previous 2 attacks.

I've never tried to get 2.0s from the fairies after the midbosses, but I try to take advantage of their surprisingly low health. Granted, I also main Reimu, who has homing shots to help out, but with her I'm able to take out fairies on the other side of the screen before they fire off more than a few waves. The pattern goes: I kill a fairy, move to the other side while dodging, kill the other fairy, then kill the first fairy in the next pair, PoC, and go back to the other side. Looking at a video, if you're going for 2.0s, I would hold off on the PoC until you kill at least 4 fairies (or 5, not sure exactly how many items they drop).

4 is enough for a 2.0, I'm pretty sure.
Since their attacks definitely appear to be streaming-based, I'm debating if they can be dodged identically to the orb enemies that shoot rings of blue lasers and cyan bullets - progressively up the middle of the screen and into the POC.  Homing shottypes shouldn't have too much trouble with it, but the problem is that I'm always so flustered coming off of the midboss that I never get set up in time and end up strategically* bombing for 2.0s as usual.
*the term "strategy" is used very loosely by this player

EDIT: EXTRA CLEAR and GOD DAMN IT THE ENDING SUCKS SO BAD AGH #WorstRun2014
video soon

[Esper]

I don't really want to watch replays unless I ABSOLUTLY, DEFINITIVLY NEED to see one; I like figuring out stuff by myself.

That's fine and dandy, but it'll save you many long hours of frustration to see how other people that have done this for a couple of years successfully decided to go about it. That mentality is what causes burnouts, hiatuses, and eventually giving up on shmups as an entirety. You can try to figure out, say, a Rubik's cube on your own, but chances are that if you don't use an online guide, you're going to just waste hours upon hours shuffling a plastic cube around and then becoming frustrated because your hours of work have come to nothing.

Be patient. Rome was not built in a day. But at the same time, you cannot make a good building without studying prior successful architecture. Trial and error only works so far. If you think you can get through Touhou without extreme frustration that takes the fun out of shmups by trial and error, you're going to prove yourself wrong very quickly.

I... this might sound silly but I am not sure if I want to do the Bosh Rush thing. Since not everyone has access to that and it would just sort of cheapen my Extra Clear, that's how I feel anyway (And I am too lazy to install it )

>not everyone has access to that
>there's a link readily available to a page on this forum with this patch readily available
>I am too lazy to install it
>it would sort of cheapen my Extra clear

Pardon the greentext, but I'm sort of incredulous right now. Nobody that matters is going to think less of you because you decided to use something that you had the ability to in order to obtain the skills/practice needed to win fairly. It is not unfair to watch replays or use software that allows you to practice places you need to practice. Would you rather that, in platforming games, checkpoints didn't exist? That's what practicing a stage without some level of practice mode feels like. You are going through the same fucking level over and over again and you're going to hate yourself and the experience as a whole for it. It feels like you are saying "I have the ability to use this checkpoint but it's kinda cheap so I'm just going to jump right the fuck over it." I am not trying to insult you. I am trying to keep you from burning yourself out. If you find something fun, that's fine, but don't frustrate yourself doing something that you have a method of making easier in a way that it will appeal to purists. You know how many Touhou purists there are? Not many in the English community.

There are ports of CAVE shmups that allow you to go into levels with specific scores, life/bomb setups, and you can start from bosses. You know why? Because CAVE is smart enough to realize "Hey, we don't have a reason to milk quarters out of you anymore now that you're not using a coin-operated machine, so we're going to allow you to get as good as you can get and as conveniently as possible."

It's not unfair to use cheats for practice. Never use them for actual runs, but for practice, anything that works for you will work.

[Failure McFailFace]

First run of DDC ULTRA Extra:




AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGG


edit: forgot ultra mode

[ILikeBulletZ]

That's fine and dandy, but it'll save you many long hours of frustration to see how other people that have done this for a couple of years successfully decided to go about it. That mentality is what causes burnouts, hiatuses, and eventually giving up on shmups as an entirety. You can try to figure out, say, a Rubik's cube on your own, but chances are that if you don't use an online guide, you're going to just waste hours upon hours shuffling a plastic cube around and then becoming frustrated because your hours of work have come to nothing.

Be patient. Rome was not built in a day. But at the same time, you cannot make a good building without studying prior successful architecture. Trial and error only works so far. If you think you can get through Touhou without extreme frustration that takes the fun out of shmups by trial and error, you're going to prove yourself wrong very quickly.

>not everyone has access to that
>there's a link readily available to a page on this forum with this patch readily available
>I am too lazy to install it
>it would sort of cheapen my Extra clear

Pardon the greentext, but I'm sort of incredulous right now. Nobody that matters is going to think less of you because you decided to use something that you had the ability to in order to obtain the skills/practice needed to win fairly. It is not unfair to watch replays or use software that allows you to practice places you need to practice. Would you rather that, in platforming games, checkpoints didn't exist? That's what practicing a stage without some level of practice mode feels like. You are going through the same fucking level over and over again and you're going to hate yourself and the experience as a whole for it. It feels like you are saying "I have the ability to use this checkpoint but it's kinda cheap so I'm just going to jump right the fuck over it." I am not trying to insult you. I am trying to keep you from burning yourself out. If you find something fun, that's fine, but don't frustrate yourself doing something that you have a method of making easier in a way that it will appeal to purists. You know how many Touhou purists there are? Not many in the English community.

There are ports of CAVE shmups that allow you to go into levels with specific scores, life/bomb setups, and you can start from bosses. You know why? Because CAVE is smart enough to realize "Hey, we don't have a reason to milk quarters out of you anymore now that you're not using a coin-operated machine, so we're going to allow you to get as good as you can get and as conveniently as possible."

It's not unfair to use cheats for practice. Never use them for actual runs, but for practice, anything that works for you will work.

Well...

I am sorry but I just, quite simply, don't share your opinion.


As stated previously, part of the reason of why I play Touhou (And other games know for their difficulty), is because I tend to love challenging games and trying to beat them. Its just a personal goal, okay? And because of this, I try to avoid almost all extra help, particularly replays and videos, because, once again, part of the experience to me is making up my own strategies to overcome said challenges. (Exception: If I have already done the goal myself I don't have a problem with watching videos. I have watched a lot of PCB 1cc Lunatic videos because I already 1cc?d it myself long ago so I got no problems with that!).

As for the SA Extra Bosh Rush. Once again, I still kinda need to practice the stage anyway, besides there is no boss rush for, say, IN extra, so I just feel it isn't right....Sorry but that's just how I feel about it. The stage is also fun to play. Really, most of my complain was directed at Koishi?s very first spell, and how I feel it was just a tad Too much for a first Spell Card, that was it. Other than that, I like the challenge


I appreciate what you are trying to do, to keep me from getting tired of the games with my personal approach to them... but, with said approach is how I have 2 Lunatic 1cc, almost all Normal Clears, Most Extra Clears except 2, and I even did the all the Spell Cards on ISC without items, and I have been enjoining the games just about as much, if not MORE than the very first day I started to play them (which was around 1 year ago)!!!.... So I say its been working just fine so far If anything, the "Burnout" you are speaking about so much is going to happen SOONER if I use the extra help, such as replays and vids, since I would then be clearing everything faster, I would be annoyed due to the fact that I didn't really came with said strategy myself, and I would complete most of the stuff in the games faster, meaning I will eventually get most of the stuff I want done (I dunno, the obvious one is getting all Lunatic 1cc someday!) and THEN I would get the Burnout: With nothing left to do, I would just kind of stop to play Touhou then!...

Except for scoring, but I honestly couldn't care less about scoring

If anyone wants to use the SA Boss Rush thing to practice, then more power to them- I think its fine and no one should look down to people using that because it is just a stupid argument. But as for me, well, it is my decision. Also I NEVER claimed replays or the like were cheating...

Finally, I would like to clarify that I am not doing all of this to "Prove" something to someone else. It is because I just find it fun, which as you said, is what games are for right?!

[Esper]

Well, if you are having fun, then you're having fun, and I'm glad for that. I think you and really anyone else should consider "Do I enjoy what I'm doing?" whenever going through Touhou. It isn't not coming up with a strategy on your own if you use a boss rush patch or the built-in practice mode in general, though. You are still tackling the bosses and their spellcards. You aren't required to play through all of the Touhou games to say that you're good enough at Touhou to move into something more complicated like score play. If you ever don't enjoy something about a Touhou game and you feel upset enough that you can't fucking stand that game for more than one run after you start playing, don't play it. Just stop. That game is dead to you. Move on to something you want to play. In my case, that game is UFO. I can't stand it, but that's just me. I dumped hours to try to become good at it but then I just stopped giving a fuck when I saw no improvements between 20-minute runs up until Stage 5, Stage 5 boss.

That goes to anyone, not just this guy.

[ILikeBulletZ]

Yes, that one something I already see I wouldst particularly care much about Touhou is scoring... its just no fun IMO, so I will not play it. That's it, problem solved!

Other than that its rare that I drop a game to begin .... I mean it has been proven I can still have fun with the same game for 3 years straight provided it is good enough (Left 4 dead you are AWESOME!), so it wouldst be hard to assume Touhou still has plenty of time to challenge- as in utterly destroy- me before the Burnout happens. But once again that's just me.

[Sakurei]

Imperishable Night Extra is hard and I'm often (read: never) not playing as well as I would like to. The best runs I've gotten in the past six weeks all at least failed two spell cards, which is not good at all when I'm allowed to fail none of them. There are a few attacks I could practice and become better at still (Honest Man's Death and Hourai Doll), but at this point, I would just optimize and optimize them in practice and never get them in runs then, which really isn't the point of practicing. I quite dislike the thought of having to luck out on some things to get them in a run (like Honest Man's Death and Hourai Doll, w), but I don't think I can force consistency on those patterns. Sometimes I like to think that it's not that hard, but in my head I know what I'm doing isn't easy. Just getting 3b is the most demanding task I've undertaken in my Touhou career, and what comes after already makes me shudder, but it isn't time to think about that just yet.

Another thought that jumped into my head was "How much over 3b am I really gonna get", and when I say that I look at my "close" runs (close as in, it's 2.8b, which is basically 2 failed spells) and in my head it's not gonna be much more, which is fairly weird. Comparing my gains with AM's (3.01b) as well as ASL's (3.1b), I see that I'm for the most part better than both of them in terms of grazing, worse than ASL in cancels, but better than AM at this point (entering Mokou with 1200 more than AM, but 1400 less than ASL on a solid run). My best run aside from my PB is 2.85, which failed Fujiyama Volcano (#rekt) and Hourai Doll (which is normal I guess). If I calculate 50 million for Fujiyama, and 80 million I get 2.98 billion, plus 40m from the bombs I used on those runs. That would have put me 10 million above AM; which just doesn't seem right, considering my everything was better (bar bombing the last non spell because I suck). Okay, AM has the strongest Honest Man's Death I've ever seen (including my practice), but that doesn't give him more than maybe eight or nine million over the run I had. It just doesn't make any sense to me, and while I do realize my numbers are in no way accurate, I don't think I'm off by more than 10, maybe 15 million, which I still would look at a bit weirdly. Initially, before getting those 2.8 runs, I thought I could get like 3.06b, maybe 3.07b, with how I play, seeing how my grazing is better than WR, and the cancels are only like 15 million difference tops, add to that 11-12 million for the bomb (and time lost) on the last non spell and it's at 3.08b or so, but then I get those runs and nothing makes sense anymore. In the end, I'll get what I'll get, and I'll improve the run one way or another since I won't suddenly get a miracle run that WRs out of nowhere, but it's still bugging me a lot for some reason.

Sorry, I needed to vent a bit. I'll complain less tomorrow and play more then w

[Kappa]

First run of DDC Extra:




AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGG

Welcome to my world, twice over
Except it actually TOOK me attempts to get my two "sliver of life left" failures

Also why is the only time I ever come remotely close to beating TD Hard the FIRST TIME I ever attempt it, on a public computer, surrounded by distracting people, with no game audio, running off a flash drive with d3dx9_43.dll stuffed into it?
And now when I actually try to beat it I can't come close?
Why am I not allowed to ever have a single shred of Touhou street cred, based ZUN?  Why am I doomed to Touhoutardation?
It's not.  Even.  HARD.  AGGGGH

[ふねん1]

Also why is the only time I ever come remotely close to beating TD Hard the FIRST TIME I ever attempt it, on a public computer, surrounded by distracting people, with no game audio, running off a flash drive with d3dx9_43.dll stuffed into it?
And now when I actually try to beat it I can't come close?
Why am I not allowed to ever have a single shred of Touhou street cred, based ZUN?  Why am I doomed to Touhoutardation?
It's not.  Even.  HARD.  AGGGGH

The effect of a new environment, perhaps? Certainly, playing without sound is an interesting experience. I sometimes find it refreshing to break my routine and not rely on audio cues.

Sounds like you're letting negativity get in the way. Trust me, the only way you'll be "doomed to Touhoutardation", as you so colorfully put it, is if you think you are. Playing bullet hell games depends a lot on having the right kind of mindset. If you ask me, the joy comes not just from reaching your goals, but from understanding what it takes to reach said goals - in the context of Touhou, being able to recognize and accept how a game functions and practicing the strategies to counter the stuff in it.  Don't focus on the "problem" - you not being able to clear the game - so much as the "solution" - finding out what works and what doesn't on each attack, figuring out which attacks are worth bombing, etc.

I would also stop short of thinking that there's any legitimate "street cred" to be gained from playing what is honestly a relatively obscure Japanese video game series. Sure, a community like this is connected by our love of Touhou, but our primary goal is not to prove we're better than other players or to get the adoration of the masses. It's first and foremost to have fun.

[Kappa]

The effect of a new environment, perhaps? Certainly, playing without sound is an interesting experience. I sometimes find it refreshing to break my routine and not rely on audio cues.

I would think so - it's a logical conclusion - but I have tried playing -nosound style before out of experimentation and I did markedly worse.

tl;dr version:
It's first and foremost to have fun.

Eh, the more frustrated and annoyed I get over this, the more cathartic and awesome it'll probably be when sh!t goes down and the battle is won.  This is the journey to the top of a modest but not-so-large mountain.
And I refer to "credibility" by the standard that Lunatic difficulty seems to be the baseline for bragging rights around these parts (scorers aside).  Do I give any significant shits about it?  Not really, but would I like to have something to speak of as opposed to nothing?  Well, yeah.  ZUN mentioned in an afterword once that the "point" of Touhou (read: conditions for completion) is to 1CC Normal, and anything beyond that is going above and beyond.  So I'm gonna roll with that, since I find Hard to be a rather comfortable difficulty (at least by TD standards), but Lunatic to be rather absurd and overkill.  Hard is like the quarter-eater arcade difficulty while Normal is like the toned-down home release version designed not to promote autodefenestration.  Lunatic is like "idunno fukk u lol lets see who actually beats this" mode.

EDIT: my tl;dr:
I must put the Hard-mode Guze Kannon to rest
That is my goal, that is my quest

[Miki Revolverhead]

First run of DDC ULTRA Extra:




AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGG


edit: forgot ultra mode

THE SAME HAPPENED TO ME YESTERDAY, BUT WITH KOISHI:



She was ALREADY exploding when I died. At that point I just went and flipped my table before crying in a corner.
Well, actually, no. I was playing in class, so maybe I did deserve it.

[pokemon123]

IN normal is stupidly hard >_>

[Kappa]

IN normal is stupidly hard >_>

Where are you getting stuck?  If it's the Stage 4 Boss, I can feel your pain.  Marisa is just really hard, but Eirin isn't exactly a pushover either.  Kaguya might be slightly easier than Eirin for some, but of course you have to get through the doctor to see their patient.

[delicioussouls]

I decided to try MoF hard. Almost got the 1cc on the first attempt, but I lost my last life while Kanako was exploding...

[pokemon123]

gah really starting to dislike pcb. A games easy mode shouldn't be this hard :/

[Cream Soda]

PCB is the most forgiving game in the series. If you're not making any progress with Easy, the suggestions I offer are: make sure you're using vpatch, make sure you know all the non-scoring-related game mechanics, make sure you know everything in the wiki's beginner guide, practice some strategies in stage practice, find a few good replays to mimic, bomb when you don't know how to dodge, and specifically to PCB, use your unfocused shot as much as you can manage, since it will give you border shields ten times as often. If you do all these things, you'll clear Easy soon enough.

[Kappa]

Not just in PCB, but in general, bombing is the number 1 best thing you can do to aid your survival.  If you're ever going to die, ever, EVER, then mash on that X key.  You're trading a bomb (which is cheap) to keep your life (which is much more expensive).  Basically, a life expended with bombs in stock is a tremendous waste, while a life ended with no bomb left is one well spent.

Additionally, try to remember when certain attacks occur in stages and against bosses, and learn how to dodge them.  Especially learn to identify streaming attacks, since they are trivial to dodge.

If you need to intensively practive a certain attack or section, Stage Practice is your friend.  Especially check out Spell Practice wherected it is available (IN, TD, DDC).

Lastly... everyone sucks when they start out.  Over time, the more you play, the better and better you'll naturally get at the games.

[Justin]

I am INCONSOLABLE right now.
I just destroyed Koishi for my first time. Should be celebrating, right?
Of course not.
In my pure joy of beating Subterranean Rose for the first time, I forgot to save a replay of the entire fiasco.
I always put up an extra clear on YouTube, so this means I have to run Koishi AGAIN.
Current mood (Only the first verse): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAbHFayN0gE (Possibly NSFW if you work in a preschool)

[Nolegs the Cat]

PCB is the most forgiving game in the series.

Imperishable Night says hi.
Never the less, I would recommend sticking with PCB easy. Sure, game-mechanic wise it's easy.
But PCB has the hardest easy-mode, pattern-wise, by far.
Clearing it first will make most of the other easy modes MUCH easier.

[Failure McFailFace]

Does DDC count? At all? Or not because lol item spam?

[Justin]

Does DDC count? At all? Or not because lol item spam?

I'm not sure, because in order to get all those items, you'd have to be at the PoC more than often, which could result in you dying a lot if you don't normally do that. Seeing as how that's the only way to get extends (not sure if stg 3 and 5 do that anymore) I'd say it's definitely harder than PCB, but better than TD and the trance system.

[Failure McFailFace]

I'm not sure, because in order to get all those items, you'd have to be at the PoC more than often, which could result in you dying a lot if you don't normally do that. Seeing as how that's the only way to get extends (not sure if stg 3 and 5 do that anymore) I'd say it's definitely harder than PCB, but better than TD and the trance system.

Bombs autocollect all items on the sceen like a PoC, so there's that.

And, if you clear the non-spell/spellcard without bombing or dying, you get a bomb/life shard. What you get depends on what you got the last time you autocollected items.

I.E.: You just got a 0.5 bonus from collecting items, and you got a life shard (meaning you have autocollected 4 times before that). When you cleared the boss/midboss's nonspell/spell without dying, you got the normal power and point items, along with a bomb shard.

[cactu]

wr potential until sakuya, after sakuya 680M easy if i cleared but i died to the beginning fairies of stage 6 XD

[Baron_Blade]

Phantasmagoria Trues Advanced. I picked it up after clearing Standard just for fun, and I got to Mima's last attack, with about 10% of the health bar left. I seem calm, but I am boiling on the inside.

[ILikeBulletZ]

So yesterday I gave YET ANOTHER try at Koishi, and I got a few close runs, the closest and the one that hurt the most begin THIS BS...




So, I want to ask you all something:

Taking a look at Koishi?s health bar...

If I HAD another life to keep going on, would I have cleared? Please tell me I wouldn't and I would have probably died anyway, because I DONT want to believe that I would have finally defeated Koishi, if it wasn't for the fact that FRIKING SANAE had to kill me with full power/bombs (She never does by now, it was just terrible luck and stupidity on my part) THIS one run...

Now, as I have said before, I don't mind challenges, and in fact I like them, I am having fun doing this!... but I still question myself about WHY the hell Koishi just seems so damn difficult when compared to every other EX boss! WHY??


ITS the fact that she is seemingly in the same category as the other, way less troublesome EX bosses that makes me rage, not the fight itself! If the other EX bosses had around the same difficulty as Koishi, I wouldn't mind one bit!...The fact that the Stage is probably among the easiest EX stages and I can perfect it almost every time doesn't helps one bit for comparison purposes...Its just weird...

Fun fact: According to the spellcard tracking story, I have reached Koishi 20 times AND I STILL HAVENT BEATEN HER!!! (Granted, this is counting all the stupid deaths to her very first spellcard, back when I didn't knew how it worked, the 2nd Spellcard has only 10 or so, but really, cmon on...)

As for the other EX bosses? They all took me 5 tries or less... WTF (I don't take into account Stage Restarts, only the boss fight itself).

Koishi is at least 3 times harder than all of them... why? :/