Author Topic: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth  (Read 203278 times)

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #540 on: October 24, 2013, 12:35:43 AM »
how do you get last word in pvp or pvc i only managed it once with Marisa i allways end up killing them 2nd round around 60-70

Darth_Sirov

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #541 on: October 25, 2013, 02:42:43 PM »
Do lots of counter hits. Also, try to get stun combos (if you can hit at 2K at a time), where they'll get a white "shield". Spell Card hits also grants 10% bonus.

Serela

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #542 on: October 25, 2013, 03:12:33 PM »
2nd-round wins also make it a lot harder to get a last word, because it means there's way less opportunity to build up popularity.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #543 on: October 25, 2013, 11:49:56 PM »
You're probably not going to get 100% against a human if they have any idea what they're doing.

Gpop

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #544 on: October 26, 2013, 12:00:53 AM »
You're probably not going to get 100% against a human if they have any idea what they're doing.
Actually, it's still just as likely and fought a lot of matches against other players and got 100%. It's very likely in the third round.

Serela

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #545 on: October 26, 2013, 12:14:12 AM »
Yeah, as long as the fight goes to round 3 it's not that hard to get LWs in a match with a real person. Yes, the majority of the time it's not gonna happen, but it's not super rare.

Blugh. My normal sparring buddy always desyncs with me at the start of the second round of a match ever since 1.30 came out and it didn't go away even when he moved to a different state of the country IRL. I wonder what's goin' on.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #546 on: November 06, 2013, 06:13:54 PM »
Well, this thread has been quite lonely for some time now, lets give it a little life, shall we? xD


Well, Its been a handful of months now after the release of the game and all so I think we can start analyzing the game from a more strict point of view, and I dont mean net-play wise and that stuff that we all already know is terrible so far. I mean things like the meta-game, mechanics, tiers and such.

For starters I would like to comment on the most basic of the moves this game has... the pokes or as everyone knows it here, the 5A?s. Pokes are very important in figthing games cause they work as they help measure the distance between opponents, like the jabs for boxers. They also are helpful combo starters and hit-confirmers thanks to their pretty quick execution speed. Yet most of these almost always lack power and range to be dangerous on their own.

However, here in Shinkirou... how well do they do their job?

As in every figthing games, there are some very good pokes and some very bad ones. I will start talking about the ones I know of and would really like it to see more people share their opinions, experiences, tests and more with us in these regards.

Miko?s Poke: Arguably the second worst poke after Mamizou?s. Its range is poor, its damage its about the same as the other pokes and above all, its pretty slow. All of these add up for a pretty bad normal move that should not be used unless you're totally sure you have the upper-hand framewise.

The problem with this 5A is more than anything within its range. Miko tries to slap the opponent with her stick with a vertical swing that pretty much goes from right in front of her face to her waist, delimiting a right triangle with her and the trayectory, leaving everything under her waist unprotected and above her sligthly so. Speedwise, after some testing I discovered that at melee range, she only out-speeds Mamizou's and loses to Byakuren, Nitori, Marisa and Reimu. Against Futo, Kokoro, Ichirin and Koishi its a draw (Both characters get hit). As a intersting note, Marisa out-speeds Miko when they are the closest they can be, however, if there's a little room between the two, Miko will win, hitting the witch before Marisa's star appears. Go figure.

So, speedwise and damagewise she doesnt seems to be doing that bad, huh?, well, thats right, the problem however is, again, the range of her attack. In the long time I've been playing I can affirm and reconfirm that Miko's poke is simply terrible at its job... approaching the opponent. Its also terrible at kepping pressure because as I have shown, her poke gets out-speeded by a half of the cast. Most times, this poke will whiff because of the different heights you and your opponent will be at, and if you're lucky, the best will be both hitting each other wich anyways is bad for Miko as she loses cape when she recieves damage.

Wich takes me to the next point... why 5A with Miko when you can 8B, 2B or 66A? Miko's poke gets easily overshadowed by better approach tools wich also do better jobs at keeping pressure on the opponent.

After all of this its obvious her poke fails miserably to stand-up to its intended job and thus falls to the category of second worst 5A.

So guys, have something to say about your main's 5As?, something to say about Miko's 5A?, lets start this analizys debate XD.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 06:21:26 PM by Sahuaro »

Gpop

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #547 on: November 06, 2013, 07:41:33 PM »
Koishi's 5A is probably either one of the best or THE best 5A in the game for it's ridiculous range and speed.

It's understandable though considering how Koishi's B moves are entirely restricted so she needs good instant 5A normals to compensate for it, especially since Koishi can't really use those B moves for reliable blockstrings or use midcombo.

Which I would say is why Miko's B moves are so good for blockstrings. Since her 5A is pretty weak she has amazing B normals to keep the character under pressure even in pushblock.

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #548 on: November 07, 2013, 04:14:37 PM »
The best 5A is either Nitori's or Koishi's, aside from being fast and good range, it also have hitbox closer to the middle. Unlike Reimu's low kick or Byakuren's high sweep, which gives them easier time closing in for a hit from either up or down. Most of the other characters, sans Byakuren, are better of using 66A/B. 

As I have mentioned, Byakuren's 5A hitbox is high, or in other terms "hits high", meaning it'll whiff if the opponents is even slightly lower. Kinda like Miko's but worse. I tend to never use it from above, though its speed helps make it easier to counter most attacks. But hey, I got my godly 5B so why should I bother with that?

Right now, I feel like I'm forgetting her 5Y lately. I used them often before, but I opted for Pagoda now, though I really think I need to get back to using it again. My problem with using it is Byakuren's low spirit pool and the goddamn LAG, since comboing with it requires stricter timing.

Gpop

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #549 on: November 07, 2013, 05:16:56 PM »
I would say Koishi's 5A is still better because Nitori's 5A stays out for quite a long time (double kicks), so if the opponent manages to avoid it she can be easily punished on whiff. Once the player commits to Nitori's 5A, he stays committed until it ends.

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #550 on: November 07, 2013, 07:25:22 PM »
I say Marisa's would be the best 5A is the start was faster. At point-blank Marisa's 5A is hell fast but at a moderate distance it might get outspeeded. After that, personally I believe Byakuren's has a slight edge over Koishi's 5A. Dunno, I feel it is a bit faster and that it covers enough vertical area to best it.

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #551 on: November 08, 2013, 01:24:24 AM »
I would say Koishi's 5A is still better because Nitori's 5A stays out for quite a long time (double kicks), so if the opponent manages to avoid it she can be easily punished on whiff. Once the player commits to Nitori's 5A, he stays committed until it ends.
Yeah, if you can predict it and if you're fast enough, you can pushblock the first hit and she's open for counters.

Yes, Marisa's a bit different, sometimes I hit her and other times I got hit with Byakuren. The hitbox is actually there before the sparks comes out.
I often lost against Koishi's, so I'd rather not take chances.

Anyway, I wanna ask some advice for blockstrings since that is something I haven't got used to and it is an important technique in advanced play.
What is the general trick for it anyway?
Also, for Byakuren, she can keep the opponent blocking with the first 2-hit of her 5A since the second hit is different. You can do it 2-3 times, but I still haven't got the timing right.

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #552 on: November 08, 2013, 04:31:48 AM »
You know, I'm been looking through every incarnation of this thread and I have a question:
Does no one play Mamizou?

I have seen the absolute bare minimum of discussion about her in these threads. Only recent thing I've heard about her was about her new spellcard, and how awesome it was (and then not a word of some of its actual uses). I'd like to here some discussion about her combos and whatnot so I can get the urge to pick up the game again.

Gpop

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #553 on: November 08, 2013, 04:36:21 AM »
You know, I'm been looking through every incarnation of this thread and I have a question:
Does no one play Mamizou?

I have seen the absolute bare minimum of discussion about her in these threads. Only recent thing I've heard about her was about her new spellcard, and how awesome it was (and then not a word of some of its actual uses). I'd like to here some discussion about her combos and whatnot so I can get the urge to pick up the game again.


There was a player, Senovit, over in an IRC channel I go to whenever I log on, and he plays Mamizou. He's the only Mamizou player I know though and can't play against him because his internet back then was pretty bad.

Though last I heard he's starting to use Koishi now :V

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #554 on: November 08, 2013, 06:36:23 AM »
You know, I'm been looking through every incarnation of this thread and I have a question:
Does no one play Mamizou?

I have seen the absolute bare minimum of discussion about her in these threads. Only recent thing I've heard about her was about her new spellcard, and how awesome it was (and then not a word of some of its actual uses). I'd like to here some discussion about her combos and whatnot so I can get the urge to pick up the game again.

Mami's quite popular in Japan. After she started getting buffed more and more people habe started to use her, and pretty prolific too. Also, I know two people who main her, altough they are from my country (Mexico) so I dont think this really helps... XD...

Well, none of us main her but we might know a thing or two as to hold up a conversation about her. After all I've played against Mamizou a handful of times so I kind of know what to expect and how to react against her.

TheTeff007

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #555 on: November 08, 2013, 02:55:32 PM »
I play with Mamizou... but I use Kokoro, Nitori and Koishi more~

(Also, loki, perhaps we could play some matches today? I'll be returning home later, so it would be at nighttime)
Small Teaser of my upcoming project~

No need to call me Teff007. Teff will do just as well~

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #556 on: November 08, 2013, 06:22:39 PM »
Sure Teff, just be warned... apparently I live in the edge of the world as eveyrone I play with is a lag of a thousand hells XD.

And well, Juno, why not start the discussion about her? xD, most likely you're the one who knows the most about her, as well as the one with the most questions, so, what do you want to discuss about her first? XD

Shimatora

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #557 on: November 11, 2013, 08:25:08 PM »
Gotten quite a bit of help from pluot and Ganondork about Nitori but... my game has decided to not run anymore. ;____;
I need, need, NEED a new graphics card so badly. The 3D backgrounds go all bugged and flicker, it's awful, not to mention it slows down the game.

In any case, I'm really liking the changes Tasofro have been doing so far to the game. Maybe when I get a new graphics card I'll pick it up again, but until then... I'll stick with my poverty 2D fighters.

Visit #sokumaidens on irc.ppirc.net for discussion and matchmaking for a wide variety of fighting games!
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Gpop

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #558 on: November 12, 2013, 05:06:53 AM »
Their commitment to HM is pretty impressive so far, they really want the game to do well and have people move on from the previous touhou fighters.

My friend is having a problem with the game as well, though his is with the netplay in general. Before he and I would normally connect fine, as we both lived in Canada, but now every time he tries to connect to me (one of the few people I can actually host with), it auto-crashes the game for him and it never connects on my side.

Critz

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #559 on: November 12, 2013, 03:51:19 PM »
I don't think getting people to "move on" from earlier games is their goal at all, I can't imagine anyone dropping Soku for this. Thankfully, it's different enough that veterans can consider it a different experience altogether and doesn't give the feel of being an inferior version of Soku at all thanks to this :V. I think they rather want to attract new players and Touhou fans that aren't familiar with the fighting game genre, considering the simplicity of execution with all specials being mapped to 2 buttons and no high/low game.

And, likewise, I wonder about why Mamizou seems so unpopular, considering S-Mamizou feels to me like an outright gamebreaker - the smoke ring that can cut off melee access is full-screen in shinto, S-Mami's birds travel slowly and cover ridiculous amount of space, you can spam them cheap and send their waves diagonally as of 1.30, she has her usual long melee AND now she got a spell card that makes enemy slow and incapable of attack and block? Holy crap.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 03:56:15 PM by Critz »

Nicktendonick

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #560 on: November 12, 2013, 05:03:25 PM »
Dang, a lot's happened since I paid any attention to this game. It seems so much has changed since the initial release and pre-kokoro time.
Feels like so much has happened I don't know where to start.

By the way, what is that IRC channel you guys are talking about (and what is it on?), if I may ask.

Darth_Sirov

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #561 on: November 12, 2013, 05:14:54 PM »
I guess Mamizou's slowness is a negative for her. She appears to easily be countered, but I do love her fighting style. She's quite a zoner, and can control many points (Up, down, left and right) quite easily. She really reminds me of Yukari's playing style (Slow, but powerful moves that can hit anywhere she wants)

Shimatora

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #562 on: November 12, 2013, 06:01:41 PM »
Dang, a lot's happened since I paid any attention to this game. It seems so much has changed since the initial release and pre-kokoro time.
Feels like so much has happened I don't know where to start.

By the way, what is that IRC channel you guys are talking about (and what is it on?), if I may ask.

The ones I know of are #shinkirou on irc.rizon.net and irc.ppirc.net #sokumaidens, the latter being an MotK FTG channel. (Gpop, Ganondork, pluot, Sahuaro, monhan all frequent there.)

Visit #sokumaidens on irc.ppirc.net for discussion and matchmaking for a wide variety of fighting games!
Feel free to message me if you need anything!

TheTeff007

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #563 on: November 15, 2013, 04:35:41 AM »
So I was playing a little around, and I don't know if anyone has noticed this, but only Ichirin's Last Word Portrair actually matches her current palette, even the newest ones.. I tried all of the other girls and they use the default ones for the images. Although Ichirin's image looks less... polished than the others, it may have that it uses the same number of colors than the actual Ichirin?
Small Teaser of my upcoming project~

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Quwanti

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #564 on: November 15, 2013, 01:33:12 PM »
So I was playing a little around, and I don't know if anyone has noticed this, but only Ichirin's Last Word Portrair actually matches her current palette, even the newest ones.. I tried all of the other girls and they use the default ones for the images. Although Ichirin's image looks less... polished than the others, it may have that it uses the same number of colors than the actual Ichirin?
I noticed at the start. Her LW portrait just have no shadows, and probably makes use of the same palette as her sprite outfit. Not sure why it would be different for her, but it sure is interesting.

cuc

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #565 on: December 11, 2013, 01:15:42 PM »
Patch 1.32 released. It seems to have improved many skills over the board, and... made Ichirin even stronger?

Most important change: a charged melee attack will crush Chicken Guard, except when the other character is forced into Chicken Guard due to the "Melancholy/Worry" emotion status.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 01:54:24 PM by cuc »
Touhou Fantasy News: twitter

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #566 on: December 11, 2013, 02:13:16 PM »
Nerf..NERF EVERYWHERE!!!

Well no, actually this might make things better.

Edit:
Tested them a bit.
Conclusion: Byakuren is BUFFED  :getdown:
Guys, don't attack her carelessly now, or you're gonna regret it.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 02:43:09 PM by monhan »

Gpop

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #567 on: December 11, 2013, 03:37:13 PM »
Need a changelog for changes (especially Koishi :V)

Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #568 on: December 11, 2013, 03:57:12 PM »
Need a changelog for changes (especially Koishi :V)
They're pretty much a buff for her dash attacks, her 5B doesn't need to wait anymore and her B attacks have lesser knockback and more stun.
Much buff to the teleport, and the Catch and Rose.
8 version of Fidgety snatcher needs lower height differences to activate.
The Mind something needs less spirit and is faster.
Fixed the bug on An An~
The roses in her LW have different pattern.

Get in the channel so we can chat.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 04:23:31 PM by monhan »

Mesarthim

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Re: TH13.5 Hopeless Masquerade - Thread the Nth
« Reply #569 on: December 11, 2013, 07:52:07 PM »
I need a Kokoro changelog. Google translate only makes it more confusing.

Hard 1cc: 4 (LLS), 6 (EoSD),7 (PCB),8 (IN),9 (PoFV),10 (MoF),11 (SA),12 (UFO),12.8 (GFW)13 (TD), 14 (DDC), 15 (LoLK)
Lunatic 1cc: 8 (IN), 9 (PoFV), 11 (SA), 12.8 (GFW), 14 (DDC)
Extra Clear: 4 (LLS) ,5 (MS) ,6 (EoSD),7 (PCB),8 (IN),9 (PoFV),10 (MoF),11 (SA),12 (UFO),12.8 (GFW),13(TD), 14 (DDC), 15 (LoLK)