Labyrinth of Touhou 8F

[redlakitu]

You actually want Magic on Marisa, not Attack. Attack is for brawlers like Remi and Flan.

That's actually what I meant. I have no idea why did I type "Attack" instead.

[Zil]

Level up bonuses should be used purely on the best stat. So pure Magic build for Marisa would be spending every single one on Magic, yes. There are a few characters who can perhaps focus on two stats, like half Magic, half Mind for Patchy. For the most part you want to focus purely on the best stat.

And yeah, it doesn't matter if you raise skill levels before or after level ups. None of that bullshit where you want to level up as slowly as possible.

[Hanzo K.]

Yeah. You're better off sinking Levels into Magic for Marisa, and using SKP to boost her SP.
Something of note is that you can easily get her to 20 TP with a little SKP. I believe she starts stock with 18.

[redlakitu]

Ah, thanks everyone. Hopefully I won't ruin my party through stupid decisions this time around.

[Hanzo K.]

Incidentally, I've been experimenting lately, and found that, given the right items and enough SKP, Flan can indeed tank.
It takes an exorbitant amount though, so don't expect to get it without a lot of grinding, or with Cheat Engine. (Thanks again for the help with that Ikari!)

[Mr. Sacchi]

> First try at boss rush, dies at Cosmic.

> Second try, several levels later, I manage to kill Yukari off before she uses Djinn Storm which makes my life just that much easier. By the time I reach

Spoiler:

Mari

I only have Kaguya and Suwako left as my nukers. Mystia never left my party the entire rush. Kaguya gets one-shotted by Amnesieri. Suwako and Mystia carry my team to the Final Phase where I die with

Spoiler:

Mary

having about 1,2 million HP left.

Why do I still play this game.

(Back to farming Page 10 items.)

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Thanks to how SKP works, literally any character can tank (Even Flan) and any character can nuke (Even

Spoiler:

Renko

) problem is, it takes 5000+ levels of SKP for that to happen.

[Hanzo K.]

You can also flat-out ignore mind in some situations by just plowing resists.
In Flan's case, that's actually the more effective method than grinding up her Mind stat to resist magic.

[Serela]

Issue is Flan either hurts herself or drains the party's active bar, so she still can't tank :V

But yeah, if you -really- wanted to do that, it does apply to most everyone. But it takes entirely unrealistic amounts of points for non-tanks.  (And by that I mean even if you hacked in the SKP it'd take a long time just to pump it high enough) Resist pumping does realistically replace mind in Plus Disk though; it can make people like Yuugi or Youmu ridiculous offensive tanks with their magic weaknesses gone.

[Hanzo K.]

Forbidden Fruit is a pretty reliable move, the only issue is the SP cost. It doesn't bust the active bars too much, and it dishes pretty respectable damage on even folks that resist MYS.
And, in a pinch, Flan can just knock heads the traditional way.

[Sakurei]

even if it's flan, a regular attack won't do shit.

that  said, if your Flandre doesn't oneshot everything (outside of bosses) you did a terrible job. with the exception of heavy FIR and MYS resistance enemies.

[Serela]

I think cutting your entire party's active bars by half is a really, really bad cost for a move that doesn't do super-amazing damage :V

You never, -ever- want to use those two active-bar kill moves if it won't finish the round. It is never worth the gigantic hit to the rest of the party's turns, which generally sets them farther back then they'd ever be if they just used a move. (And actual long delay moves are usually followed by switching that character out rather then letting them wait, in the first place)

[Hanzo K.]

Actually, I've noted that even with normal attacks, Flan's pretty powerful.
Then again, NG+ file, so I don't have to mess with recruiting her. I got tired of the grind, and skipped straight to the experimenting.
And so far, despite not having a lot of gear, I have more than enough SKP to make up for it. (Again, thanks for the help Ikari! Can't say it enough.)
...Fridge Logic moment! If she's this beefy without equips....Oh shit. Blue Sabers are really gonna make things beastly.


Incidentally, on my main runthrough, the Flying Squirrel never dropped. But on the experimental run, it's droppin' like there's no tomorrow.

As for the active-bar busters, enough SPD can compensate for that. Either by SKP grinding(which takes ages.), or Equips.

[Serela]

No, spd doesn't compensate :V That's like saying "Oh, using this move debuffs my attack? Time to get more attack!" No, you -always- want more attack, and getting more doesn't make the detriment any less bad.

Forbidden Fruit does nice damage, but most of the time (after early game, which you're in right now) it won't finish a battle, and then the enemies all get to wail on you while your entire party can't move. It's not even as strong as most other worthy nukes in the game! It's all perfectly fine if it ends the battle, of course, but when it doesn't, it's bad news.

Flan's normal attacks are actually fairly okay, but they're still not terribly good. (Again though; in early game they probably tear things apart. You aren't even supposed to have her yet though, of course.)

[Sakurei]

laevantein still OHKOs everything that isn't a boss or strongly resistant to FIR (or has high MND and DEF) lol.. so it's generally fairly safe to use it. though, manipulating orders so she goes last is certainly helpful.

I don't see forbidden fruit as anything useful in late game, either. especially against bosses. but if you have a strong flan, it should generally be enough to OHKO trash. I know mine could do it. or can :V

[qazmlpok]

Forbidden Fruit is actually very effective against Victorious Little Tengu on 28F. It's not too hard to have Flandre outspeed them (I think you need 1501 speed to do it). They take half damage from fire and double damage from MYS, and they are nasty enough that you want them dead immediately.

I saw a (Japanese) video a long time ago about someone that was horribly overleveled beating WINNER with a party of just Flandre and Rumia (healer). Anything is possible with enough grind, but that's not really saying much.

[Mr. Sacchi]

If you can beat Maribel handily you're ready for the Boss Rush.

Tried to go for her just to see how ready I was.

Killed toruastory and amnesiari in the same turn, leaving only the third one. He immediately casts djinn storm along with

Spoiler:

mari

casting flux of yomotsu hirasaka which DTH'd nitori and meiling.

Oh yeah, and after I killed the third one she insisted in locking me down with another two djinn storms.

I am .not. prepared.

[I have no name]

Then prepare for SP recovery and DTH immunity.

The boss rush is not very damaging, the threat there is TP/SP running out, and statuses, mostly DTH/SIL.

Djinn Storm is RNG, and IIRC only a 5% chance so that has to be the unluckiest Maribel fight ever.

[Sakurei]

> implying it's as unlucky as my "she cripples me with every status bullshit she has got" fight I once had. I was well prepared for the fight, I had no problems survivng a really long maribel fight, quickly disposed of her familiars and whatnot

but then she decided it'd be fun to cast djinn storm, crippling my offence. after wasting 2 turns recharging, she does it again. rinse repeat until game over.

of course she attacked me inbetween. and without SP I had no way of healing. that was so bulllshit. I defeated her on the try after that because she didn't throw such crap at my face ever again

[Parallaxal]

In the end, this game is just a game of numbers. And sometimes those numbers are against you, even when you're prepared. All our theorycrafting is just us trying to tip the odds.

[Ikari]

Anything can be done through massive amount of skillpoints. An entire team with 1000 levels in everything is hilariously great.

...I swear I thought I'd lose my finger after all that tapping.

[Mr. Sacchi]

After 20 levels of grinding purely on Hellfire's Demonskys, I cheat engined my way through getting the Divine Spirit Barrier, then I attempted the Boss Rush.

It was a pain, but I made it, third time's the charm!

Now I have the postgame content available to me.

So... Should I quit now before I become addicted to grinding? :V

Anyway, I should be able to beat the beast of centaurea, and I've beat EVD. But I wanna go for the plus disk now, any tips for floor 21?

[Dr.Strafe]

But I wanna go for the plus disk now, any tips for floor 21?

Enter 21F, and then go back to 1F and pick up Mystia. You won't regret it.
Don't try fighting Baal Avatar until you need to get past the seal on 25F.
Don't try fighting Okuu until you're at Reimu level 250+ (and you'll still have a hard time..)
Don't even think of fighting any of the Bloodstained Seals V2 for a very very long time.

In short, explore 21F, but go deeper into the Plus Disk dungeons and then come back for the bosses when you're significantly stronger. :V

[Mr. Sacchi]

Enter 21F, and then go back to 1F and pick up Mystia. You won't regret it.
Don't try fighting Baal Avatar until you need to get past the seal on 25F.
Don't try fighting Okuu until you're at Reimu level 250+ (and you'll still have a hard time..)
Don't even think of fighting any of the Bloodstained Seals V2 for a very very long time.

In short, explore 21F, but go deeper into the Plus Disk dungeons and then come back for the bosses when you're significantly stronger. :V

For Mystia, I've done that the moment I beat Mari the first time through :V Mystia has been my MVP for a while now.

Fun Fact: My Mystia has about half of the DEF/MND of my meiling, about 3/4ths of her HP, a tiny bit less ATK than my Nitori, the highest SPD of my team (Beating Flandre, the second fastest, by 50 SPD) 42 Resist to all ailments and debuffs (Except DTH, which she has 22). 200 Affinity to all elements and as much SP as my Iku with about half of the SP cost.

BV

Regardless, guess I'll do nothing but explore and grind like a maniac for a good while. When is the next star-barricade, btw?

PS: The enemies on this floor are surprisingly easy. I thought I'd have to deal with a second 17F or 18F or something.

[Dr.Strafe]

The next Star checkpoint is on 22F. You'll need four Stars completed to proceed. You will need six of the seven Stars completed by the time you get to 27F. The sixth Star is

Spoiler:

Maribel V2

, but to unlock that fight, you will need five Stars..

[Hanzo K.]

That's a pretty beefy Mystia there man. bet she can tank pretty nicely on earlier floors.

[Sakurei]

doesn't sound beefy to me. my reimu had higher defenses than my meiling and about 2/3 HP. higher affinities and resistances.

as a matter of fact, my reimu is a better tank than my meiling in my current safe xD when grinding for the winner I made her able to survive everything (with the exception of knockout in 3 steps and last judgement; because KI3S is busllhit on the yuugi 3 version. 2 million damage, wtf?)

I am so overpowered :V I should probably kill the winner so often until I game over eventually.

ah, I digress. well, good luck on the plus-disk content. unless you "like" grinding, defeating F30 is going to be a fucking chore. good luck, regardless!

[Hanzo K.]

Well, Meiling and Tenshi are regarded as the gold standards of Tanking, so having a character be almost as durable as them really says something.

[Serela]

Late in Plus Disk, balance weirds out. For example, it becomes really realistic to pump affinities to make a bad-MND character take magic hits like a pro, suddenly making a whole lot of people able to hold the first slot as well as Meiling... who at that point only really has her heals going for her, which aren't particularly needed at that point either.

[Hanzo K.]

Only thing I've noted that Flan's got poor affinity in is Spirit. But that makes sense given that Remi shares a similarly low Spirit Affinity.
So to make her tanky, just plow DEF and Affinities.Boom, instant Tanky Nuker.

[Starxsword]

even if it's flan, a regular attack won't do shit.

that  said, if your Flandre doesn't oneshot everything (outside of bosses) you did a terrible job. with the exception of heavy FIR and MYS resistance enemies.

I am not quite sure what you mean. But Flan's regular attack is respectable. Regular attacks have a 50% delay after use, so you can use that until you can get off Laevateinn or Starbow Break and then switch out. With her HP growth, she is unlikely to get one shotted and in the Plus Disk, that likelihood drops even more, because affinities are generally more important than defenses.