Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: Bardiche on August 10, 2015, 11:38:43 PM
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Free! Mafia
Inviolable Rules:
1. Toxicity is expressly forbidden. While toxicity is broad, it generally means any attitude or behaviour that is designed at negatively impacting another person's enjoyment of the game. If it violates the spirit of sportsmanship, it's likely a violation of the No Toxicity rule. You're allowed to lie, cheat and deceive your peers as much as you like, so long as you're not actively trying to keep them from enjoying the game. Violation of this rule results in immediate removal from the game, whereupon the Day will end if you were Scum (without a lynch), or continue with votes wiped if you're Town (and possible time extension in the case of Deadline Geebers). Moreover, you will be reported to forum administration for inappropriate behaviour.
2. Role PMs may never be publicised. Scum may freely share their role PM with each other without issue, but other players are expressly forbidden from quoting any or all part(s) of their role PM. Paraphrasing is permitted, just don't quote.
3. The dead can neither communicate nor rise. In my previous game, the dead were too strong. This game, I guarantee that any player eliminated through game mechanics will permanently and unequivocally be removed from the game. No roles function after dying, and no roles permit the dead to influence the game in any way, shape or form.
4. There is no compulsory element. Day Phases may end without lynch an infinite number of times. ##NoLynch is a valid option and will be passed if Hammered. Night Phases may end without Scum performing the Night Kill. There will be no indication if Scum declines the Night Kill.
5. All role information is given complete, meaning there are no hidden elements to anyone's role. Additionally, no roles have dependencies on other roles. There exist no roles that detect alignment or your role. Outside of Lynch and Night Kill, there exist no roles that can eliminate you from the game. There exist no roles that prevent your action from succeeding. Note: there may be roles that prevent you from using your ability in the first place. However, if you are stopped from activating your role, it will be announced publicly in the thread.
6. There are multiple power roles, but not everyone is guaranteed to have a power role. There is guaranteed to be vanillas in the game. It is guaranteed that at least two players will be vanilla. At most eight players will be vanilla.
7. There are six Town players and two Scum players. There exist no third parties. All Town players win by eliminating all Scum players, or forcing them to surrender. All Scum players win by eliminating all Town players, or nothing can prevent them from doing so, or forcing Town to surrender. There are no roles that are designed to cause a surrender. If a role unintentionally can be used to force a surrender, it will be modified to disallow such use.
The following rules may be ignored through role actions, game mechanics or other events. Unless otherwise noted, they still apply:
1. There is no talking during the Night, except in any mod-sanctioned QTs.
2. Each Day Phase lasts 72 hours, but they will end early if a hammer occurs or it is otherwise ended prematurely. If a Day Phase ends without a hammer, No Lynch will be defaulted. Each Night Phase lasts 24 hours, and there exist no mechanics to end it prematurely. There may be phases that are neither a Day nor a Night Phase.
3. Rules do not inhibit you from employing specific strategies, which is to mean that you do not need to meet any posting requirements. There are no requirements to post length, post content or post frequency. There is no consequence for refusing to post for an entire Day Phase or, in fact, the entire game.
4. It is expressly forbidden to quote private mod communications, though again you are allowed to paraphrase. There may be roles that expressly permit people to quote (parts of) the mod's private communication.
5. Each Day Phase has its own unique mechanic, which alters the way the game is played.
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In the Running
1. Kilga // Ran Tachibana
2. ActionDan* // Makoto Tachibana
3. Patorikku // Nagisa Hazuki
4. Raitaki // Aiichiro Nitori
5. DNA // Rei Ryugazaki
6. CF7 // Haruka Nanase
7. Serela // Momotarou Mikoshiba
8. Shalako // Gou
ATTENTION! A new and exciting swimming adventure will commence soon! Two weeks from now, there'll be the Japanational Swimming Contest, freshly opened this year! Only the best swimmers from each area are allowed to compete. For that reason, Iwatobi and Samezuka have clasped their hands together and decided to send their two best representatives, rather than competing with each other. The catch? You've got to compete as a team. And there's more people interested than there are slots.
Not to worry! We'll get there yet. No problem! Supposedly, there's people among the Samezuka and Iwatobi swimming teams who actually are going to swim for some other school, but that's just entirely silly and wouldn't happen... right?
Please confirm in-thread that you're ready to compete!
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haaaaaaaaa~i
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All role PMs are sent out. If you haven't received yours, shoot me an angry message.
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Confirm
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Confirmed shirtless and ready to swim!
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Confirming that i can swim. Also it's 3:35 am and am finally Free! to go to sleep.
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Confirmed!
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confirm
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Con-Firm Muscles
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kchchchchchcch
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I think we need a day event that gauges the quality of Free! puns and the winner gets to set someone free.
From this horrible game we call mafia >:)
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I get to Roleplay as a Manager in charge of a Swim Team so I think we can agree in the end i'm the real winner.
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With all confirmations in, I can now proudly announce that
DAY 1 HAS BEGUN
Every team requires a captain! Without one, teams are just gatherings of individuals with no direction! It's therefore imperative that, before we do anything, you must select a Captain!
Whoever has the most votes by the end of the day will become Team Captain. There is no regular lynch today (and there is no Night Kill on Night 1). Team Captain will come into play on Day 2, but will not be able to decide lynch without group input.
Good luck! You have a little over 72 hours because I suck at time conversion (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20150814T13&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+Day+1&font=cursive&csz=1&swk=1).
With 8 players in the game, it'll take 5 to elect a Team Captain.
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So... Mayor.
##Vote CF7
Because i am definitely the best candidate for this.
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ATTENTION SWIMMERS:
PX has become my co-mod. Any PMs you want to send, send it to both of us. :)
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Good people of Iwatobi and Samezuka, I, Rei Ryugazaki, am hereby nominating myself as the candidate for the Team Captain for this tournament.
For those who do not know me, I understand that this could be an appaling proposal. As indeed, I am not the most outstanding swimmer here, nor do I sport a particularly broad range of strokes. It may seem arrogant of me to offer such a proposal when there's obviously much better swimmers than myself whom you could cast your vote for. Yet, I believe that I have my unique strengths that makes me a very suitable candidate for this position and it would be very much appreciated if you can give me a moment and hear me out.
....
Thank you for still bearing with me. Thank you.
Allow me to reintroduce myself properly, I am Rei Ryugazaki, a butterfly swimmer and former track team member. My transition to swimming is due to my admiration for the beauty, grace, and power of all our excellent swimmers. And most importantly, of how the waters seem to have freed us from the constrains, and allows swimmers to fully immerse every fibre of their being into the sport. It is precisely this pure, undiluted will that has entranced me time and over, and I just found myself entranced and eventually drawn into this mesmerizing world of water.
I am not as gifted as many of you are. But I make up of it with my tenacity and selflessness. I never give up, and I always devote myself fully to the competition regardless of its outlook. And I will do anything within my ability to pursue excellence and see the team to the finals. I believe this quality is very important as the captain for I pledge to be the one whom you could rely on at the grimest hour, the darkest time of the day. I will putting my fellow swimmers before myself, and should I become the captain. I assure you that I will do everything within my ability to enable our team to proceed to the competition in our finest state, and I believe these are the ones demanded of the captain we need.
In addition, as you may have already been informed, this competition is not one particular friendly for us swimmers. We already know that traitors lurk amongst us, and we will have to be prepared for treachery, betrayal and lies to be propagated in order to get us to turn against one another. Disgusting, low-down dirty tactics I have sworn to and is more than capable of vanquishing. Should I be elected as team captain and my status persevered, that position should prove most useful for the upcoming days, when I will be able to most fully exercise my will to rid us of the mafia traitors and ensure our victory, a deed that I am very much passionate to get done personally.
I urge you therefore, to have faith in me. For I will not yield in the face of apathy, I will not scuumb to misreps and strawmens, I will confront all those who challenge the moral integrity of the swimmers' spirit and eliminate them. This is Rei Ryugazaki, and thank you.
##Vote Rei Ryugazaki
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##Vote: Kilgamayan obv
DNA is probscum, too many words on ED1 for town, kill it with water
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DNA plzzzzzzz
##Vote Kilgamayan
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Clearly my big brother is the best choice for Team Captain.
(http://s1.zerochan.net/Matsuoka.Rin.600.1630311.jpg)
But since he's not here ##Vote Rei Ryugazaki
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Well, since it's unlikely i'll be picked and i don't want to vote for DNA after that wall, i guess it won't hurt.
##Unvote
##Vote Kilgamayan
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##vote Dna
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Well, since it's unlikely i'll be picked and i don't want to vote for DNA after that wall, i guess it won't hurt.
##Unvote
##Vote Kilgamayan
(http://i.imgur.com/fTMsKfd.jpg?1)
Please explain why you are voting for the person slandering DNA for something that isn't a Mafia tell for him.
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CF7, I find it interesting how fast you gave up and deemed yourself 'unlikely to be picked', why is that? You couldve just promoted yourself or you know, wall something out.
Serela and Shalako, why are you both not even interested in competing for the prestigious position of Team Captain?
Kilg, the accusation seems rather uncalled for, for as scum I will not be motivated to draw so much attention to myself needlessly. Thusly I can assure you that my enthusiasm stems only from the pure desire to lead town to victory.
People, this is Rei Ryugazaki, not some hogwash politician who sells himself through crude, bigoted slogans, forced internet memes, twitter and 4chan in order to gain popular opinion. I respect our swimmers intelligence and critical thinking which is why i do not pander to your carnal desires to watch the world burn but is instead trying to strive for a less visceral consensus which we could agree on only after some more cerebral discussions. Let's all don our logical thinking hats to think logically and try to put ourselves in other swimmers trunks so that we can get a more intimate grasp of one anothers thoughts.
This broadcast by Rei Ryugazaki seems to have been interrupted by two others in queue
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BOAT COUNT
Mod request: Please vote players, not characters. :V
CF7 (0): CF7
DNA (3): DNA, Shalako, ActionDan
Kilga (3): Kilga, Serela, CF7
Undecided (2): Raitaki, Patorikku
With 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to elect a team captain! 2 Days and 22 Hours remain (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20150814T13&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+Day+1&font=cursive&csz=1&swk=1) to make a decision. If the Day ends without a hammer, highest amount of votes wins by default.
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@Mod can I change my profile name to Rei Ryugazaki for the rest of the game
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Please explain why you are voting for the person slandering DNA for something that isn't a Mafia tell for him.
I know you weren't asking me, but (I'm sorry DNA!) I didn't even skim that wall, like oh god why it's not even past RVS why is there a wall.
@DNA's question, do you think I could possibly convince half the game to give Serela a position of possible power? :getdown:
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@Mod can I change my profile name to Rei Ryugazaki for the rest of the game
Sure.
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I understand where you are coming from now, but please do not demote yourself! Your self esteem is very important as a swimmer, and as a long term friend and rival, i can vouch for the fact that when your performance is at its peak, you can definitely outdo many other players in terms of play. You may not be a consistent swimmer, but you have a wild talent which you just have to tap into. You just gotta be free, then I have no doubt you will be able to do the impossible, see the invisible and fight the powah.
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Serela and Shalako, why are you both not even interested in competing for the prestigious position of Team Captain?
(http://i.imgur.com/ArQU58T.jpg?1)
I know you weren't asking me, but (I'm sorry DNA!) I didn't even skim that wall, like oh god why it's not even past RVS why is there a wall.
So...If DNA always posts walls...How is it a reason to cast doubt on him for doing something he always does? How can you trust someone with this shoddy logic to be team captain?
Have you even seen Rei's Logic
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Please explain why you are voting for the person slandering DNA for something that isn't a Mafia tell for him.
Well does it really matter? We're choosing a team captain. There's no real info aside from personal bias. I don't like DNA's candidature, so there.
CF7, I find it interesting how fast you gave up and deemed yourself 'unlikely to be picked', why is that? You couldve just promoted yourself or you know, wall something out.
I am just not that competitive. Anyway. Why are you trying so hard to be picked?
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There's no real info aside from personal bias.
Wrong.
I don't like DNA's candidature,
Because he posted a large speech?
Explain why DNA of all people posting a large post is enough to declare him scummy.
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Wrong.
How so?
Because he posted a large speech?
Explain why DNA of all people posting a large post is enough to declare him scummy.
Yep.
Because he alone posted a completely unnecessary wall that doesn't have anything meaningful in it. Yes i actually read it in its entirety.
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So...If DNA always posts walls...How is it a reason to cast doubt on him for doing something he always does? How can you trust someone with this shoddy logic to be team captain?
I'm assuming Kilga not to seriously be suggesting that his first act as team captain will be purging Rei Ryugazaki for having an rvs wall, and I agree with the sentiment that oh god walls why. (Also, Kilgamayan has a high mafia reputation here, and whether or not that may be overblown by now [I mean, I've seen him play like 3 times in the past few years, I can't gauge much :V Other than that he did a great job as Tenshi in Swordgirls even if reality conspired against him. At least I didn't redirect their nightkill onto his own scumbuddies because of Bad Life Decisions{tm}] it's fun to just go along with that at least during rvs)
@Rei, I do totally agree with you (hee!) but part of that ability is recognizing when it's best to concede and concentrate efforts elsewhere! It's not as though I'm giving up, I just won't be captain~
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How so?
Should be Obvious.
Yep.
Because he alone posted a completely unnecessary wall that doesn't have anything meaningful in it. Yes i actually read it in its entirety.
Okay so now that we've established your reasoning here:
DNA is probscum, too many words on ED1 for town, kill it with water
Of posting too many words in RVS actually means he posted a lot without anything meaningful how about you explain what other posts in the thread before his were meaningful since nothing else raised your hackles.
Why would DNA stating why he'd be a good pick be unmeaningful?
Why is a Player deciding to Roleplay unmeaningful?
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CF7, Rei Ryugazaki wants to be selected because Rei Ryugazaki plays the game and is willing to embrace all types of opinions, based or not. And he believes that a higher likelihood of winning for town could be achieved by being the captain.
Also, I want you to respond to how you disliking my style constitutes your vote for Kilga, and giving up on promoting yourself. Say, for example, if you arent feeling competitive, why do you still opt to vote yourself in the first place, instead of making your intention of resigning clear, such as Shalakos or Serelas? Was your votes all opportunistic, or do you have further justifications?
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God damn it.
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Should be Obvious.Okay so now that we've established your reasoning here:Of posting too many words in RVS actually means he posted a lot without anything meaningful how about you explain what other posts in the thread before his were meaningful since nothing else raised your hackles.
Why would DNA stating why he'd be a good pick be unmeaningful?
Why is a Player deciding to Roleplay unmeaningful?
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roleplay posts are cute and null (unless they start clogging up legitimate content posts in which case they're mildly irritating but still null)
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Because apparently our school intercom is very busy at this hour, Rei Ryugazaki would like to note most of his broadcasts have been delayed by a few slots and may not be most updated.
Shalako, while Rei Ryugazaki certainly appreciates you taking the time to defend him, he would lIke to note that Kilga may not be online to respond to your queries, and such a rapidly, spammy style of questioning may be counterproductive since we must admit that we are running on little empirical evidence at this stage of the game and it is best not to flood it with unnecessary fluff until other swimmers response less risking additional pressure on swimmers during later stages of the tournament
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##unvote
##vote: serela
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roleplay posts are cute and null (unless they start clogging up legitimate content posts in which case they're mildly irritating but still null)
Why are you answering questions directed at CF7?
Why are you answering the fluff question directed at him?
Why does DNA posting a large Post indicate that he's not suitable for Captain?
Why is DNA posting a Wall alignment related?
If CF7 didn't mean to "purge" DNA why say kill it with water?
Shalako, while Rei Ryugazaki certainly appreciates you taking the time to defend him,
Sorry, I just have always been bad at RVS, i'm too eager to get to the good part.
@Dan
Role Related?
Is the gimmick of restricted players quoting to get their views across allowed here?
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Say, for example, if you arent feeling competitive, why do you still opt to vote yourself in the first place, instead of making your intention of resigning clear, such as Shalakos or Serelas? Was your votes all opportunistic, or do you have further justifications?
Well it would have been nice if i were to be picked and if that doesn't happen, it's not that big of a loss for me.
No. No further justifications.
Why would DNA stating why he'd be a good pick be unmeaningful?
Why is a Player deciding to Roleplay unmeaningful?
Because pretty much anyone benefits from being a governor and mafia doubly so.
Because it's not indicative of alignment.
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Because pretty much anyone benefits from being a governor and mafia doubly so.
So... Mayor.
:wat:
How do you know the Mayor ability is being a governor?
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How do you know the Mayor ability is being a governor?
Aren't those just different names of the same role? Also i have no idea if Team Captain is a Governor role or not.
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spammy style of questioning may be counterproductive
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@Shalako, I mean most of your questions also applied to me so I figured!
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Ew elections. Why. Can't we just all be equal and democratic here ; v;
Vote for me guys I'll do everything according to majority opinion o/
##Vote: Raitaki
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CLARIFICATION:
The winner of today's vote does not acquire a power role.
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On phone at work, I'm not reading all of that nonsense lel
DNA/Shalako scumteam? DNA/Shalako scumteam. gg
Dan you hurt me so :( Vote for me I've figured it all out
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Ew elections. Why. Can't we just all be equal and democratic here ; v;
Vote for me guys I'll do everything according to majority opinion \o/
##Vote: Raitaki
Well I mean, that's basically what I was doing most of last game, and that only worked until we got to lynching last scum, so... Not sure how much I wanna roll with that. Gonna quickly reread things a couple times over.
Cut by 1...?
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I mean, now that I think about it, the real reason catching last scum didn't work last game is because conq really covers his tracks well. Running on public opinion alone can be detrimental, though, so I'd rather roll with that.
Like Serela said, RP is null as far as alignment is concerned, and I'm willing enough to trust DN-- Rei-chan's judgement. I don't know nearly enough about Kilga's playstyle to run off what little info we've been given here thus far, so I don't feel that wagon's a good option as of yet.
Aw hell, I sheeped him last game, and this game, it's even in character to do it! :V
##Vote: DNA
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@Mods Would there be any objections to me changing my username to match my character's as well?
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@Mods Would there be any objections to me changing my username to match my character's as well?
Feel free to go nuts with RP and whatnot.
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VOTE COUNT
Mod request: Whatever, I'll count votes NO MATTER HOW TEDIOUS, THIS IS MY ROLE!
CF7 (0): CF7
Rei Ryugazaki (3): Rei Ryugazaki, Shalako, ActionDan, Patorikku
Kilga (3): Kilga, Serela, CF7
Serela (1): ActionDan
Raitaki (1): Raitaki
With 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to elect a team captain! 2 Days and 17 Hours remain (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20150814T13&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+Day+1&font=cursive&csz=1&swk=1) to make a decision. If the Day ends without a hammer, highest amount of votes wins by default.
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Well I mean, that's basically what I was doing most of last game, and that only worked until we got to lynching last scum, so...
Well, that might be true, but on the off-chance that Kilga is scum, then his leadership would also only work until get around to lynching the last scum :V Not to mention having a leader figure around makes it easier to sheep/coast and whatnot, and if that position falls to a respected player people might start being biased towards whatever said respected player says no matter if they're intentionally trying to lead the town or not, so I don't really feel comfortable giving team captain status to anyone town might rally around.
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Not to mention that if the respected player gets elected as the team captain AND is town, scum would basically have double reason to shoot him. Or they can just ignore him and let town go reverse-psychology and think "It's LyLo and Kilga the team captain somehow is still alive! He must be scum!". Too many possible ways for scum to take advantage of the team captain's influence for me to be comfortable with voting someone good for it.
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Actually read all the posts, mind isn't changed, Shalako going so hard into the paint for DNA is scummy enough for me rn
as scum I will not be motivated to draw so much attention to myself needlessly
false
(a) I've done this as scum before multiple times for precisely this reason
(b) Real talk: people are less inclined to vote posting gimmicks off the island (unless they're attached to a username that name begins with "D" and ends with "ormio")
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considering the wall wasn't actually related to the game it's certainly not something that means much for alignment one way or another in any case, scum or town could both easily do it and it's more related to having fun with flavor than ~*~scum misdirection~*~ or anything
I imagine he'd probably have done that regardless of what color his role pm ended up being
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:words: is just as good a reason as any to cast an ED1 vote imo
His response was pretty terribad tho
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How is someone posting a lot a reason to vote someone if they always post a lot.
Makes no sense to vote someone for something they ALWAYS do regardless of alignment
Not to mention that if the respected player gets elected as the team captain AND is town, scum would basically have double reason to shoot him. Or they can just ignore him and let town go reverse-psychology and think "It's LyLo and Kilga the team captain somehow is still alive! He must be scum!". Too many possible ways for scum to take advantage of the team captain's influence for me to be comfortable with voting someone good for it.
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We don't know how long whatever Team Captain does lasts and they can't shoot him until N2.
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To address the dilemma that electing either of me or Kilga may result in scum being in control of the wagons, Rei Ryugazaki would lIke to note conqs strategy only worked out last game and seized him the win due to a plethora of role related reasons, which cannot be realistically replicated here, namely;
1. Day one cop fakeclaim gambit enabled due to mod
2. Serela was unnecessarily and ridiculously trying to abuse a useless role, covering up the tracks for conq
3. Dorian had lacklustre play, and the fakeclaim shenanigans due to mod apparently was enough to cause him selfhammer, wasting another day
4. Existence of Governor and apathetic scum rendered bussing analysis moot due to layers of potential reverse psychology material
5. Playerbase apathy due to absurdly long thread about roleshit with hollow content
Rei Ryugazaki is very certain that, under normal, balanced circumstances, it is impossible that conq wouldve won, even though his play was impressive. Last game was a unique example because most of conqs interaction was overlooked due to player apathy and his votes make sense even as scum because they are indeed well grounded in reality. Serela did look terribly scummy, and the playerbase was indeed tired, hammering him is a blessing for all of us. Dorian did give up on the game and even selfhammered. And our Doctor trusted the scum so much she wasn't saving anyone else. At that point on, the win was pretty much sealed. There was too little input of fresh insights and a rereading was nearly impossible, and thusly town wouldn't be likely to change its initial perspective and suspect conq. Its the kind of game that even if I get to play it again, I would still hammer Dan and give conq the win, because I find his play and dedication worthy of such merit. But its normally just impossible unless town is planning another collaborative screwup.
Less depressing analysis aside! Rei Ryugazaki wants you to vote him because he has a few principles he wants to upkeep if he gets elected as Team Captain. So that we can maintain a healthy swimming environment that is friendly to dedicated swimmers and unwelcome to those who wield treachery by their side. If you agree with the following principles and want someone to do them for you, vote for me for I will be faithfully exercising them!
1. No Lurking, Rei Ryugazaki shall prod and announce the name of swimmers who has more than 24 hours of absence, preventing mafia tratiors from attempting to avoid the heat of the sun and drawing attention to their unruly playstyle
2. No spamming, Rei Ryugazaki admires only the beautiful will of swimming and non-swimming related discussions will be singled out. This is to ensure a healthy lategame that traitors could be reliably identified
3. Minimal roleshens. This is a bard game, and as with all bard games, we know they are more balanced and less experimental than nnr games. Thus excessive (definition may vary, but most common indicator is when people starts to go in circles) roleshens will be reminded to stop and focus back on pure swimming practices.
Obviously, while this power is only arbitrary, and I am already performing such duties, being elected as TC shall further motivate me and reinvigorate my desire to help out and offer advice at my fullest, I therefore ask of you to vote Rei Ryugazaki, champion of butterfly stroke, logical thinking and wearing others swimming trunks.
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and wearing others swimming trunks.
w-wait you almost had me there but uh
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1. No Lurking, Rei Ryugazaki shall prod and announce the name of swimmers who has more than 24 hours of absence, preventing mafia tratiors from attempting to avoid the heat of the sun and drawing attention to their unruly playstyle
What's the gameplan when/if it turns out Action Dan is lying about his role? I don't know how you guys handle things like that here.
Also everyone is okay with Raitaki Fluff posting?
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Rei Ryugazaki feels Raitaki has very reasonable points raised and is a shining beacon of towness.
also, Rei doubts Dan not speaking to be due to a PR but is instead of his usual playstyle.
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Honestly, reading Rei's posts is a lot like reading a legal document. You know what it is about in general, but you have to read it extra carefully in case there's a fine print that says "screw you".
Raitaki raises a valid point, but we still have no idea what Team Captain does, so impact on the game is likely to be minimal, as Bard said that it's not a power role.
And leaving my vote where it is.
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VOTE COUNT
CF7 (0): CF7
Rei Ryugazaki (3): Rei Ryugazaki, Shalako, ActionDan, Patorikku
Kilga (3): Kilga, Serela, CF7
Serela (1): ActionDan
Raitaki (1): Raitaki
With 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to elect a team captain! 2 Days and 2 Hours remain (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20150814T13&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+Day+1&font=cursive&csz=1&swk=1) to make a decision. If the Day ends without a hammer, highest amount of votes wins by default.
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CF7 (0): CF7
wait what
I can get behind Rei's promised policies, and I don't think his reputation has entered MoTK top tier territory yet.
##Unvote
##Vote: Rei Ryugazaki
@CF7: I'm mostly concerned about the impact of the Team Captain's on the players' thinking and behaviour, not what the slot can do mechanically. Even if the title is just customary and doesn't really do anything there's still this mindset of "we elected this person to be our 'leader' of sorts" floating around.
Kilga's scumread on DNA seems...a little bit overblown? I think exchanges that go like "well I'm not scum since I'm drawing attention to myself" "nuh uh reverse psychology" are pretty customary and common, so I'm having trouble seeing why Kilga thinks that's a terrible response and marks DNA as scum.
And unless Shalako was talking about my RP posts last game, calling me fluff posting when I'm seriously trying to explain my line of thinking in basically RVS is uuuuuuh.
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do the impossible, see the invisible and fight the powah
.-. ##Unvote
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wait what
Italic'd votes mean they've unvoted since then, some mods do this, esp. on d1
It used to be in most games I think but maybe people got lazy? :V Anyway I have to head out for a few hours
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VOTE COUNT
CF7 (0): CF7
Rei Ryugazaki (3): Rei Ryugazaki, Shalako, ActionDan, Patorikku, Raitaki
Kilga (3): Kilga, Serela, CF7
Serela (1): ActionDan
Raitaki (0): Raitaki
Undecided (1): Raitaki
With 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to elect a team captain! 1 Day and 15 Hours remain (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20150814T13&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+Day+1&font=cursive&csz=1&swk=1) to make a decision. If the Day ends without a hammer, highest amount of votes wins by default.
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errr whoops.
##Vote: Rei Ryugazaki
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Friendly mod note: Rei Ryugazaki is at L-1. Or TC-1, in this case.
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Rei Ryugazaki feels Raitaki has very reasonable points raised and is a shining beacon of towness.
Really, I looked over what he's talked about so far and compared/contrasted it to the last game I played with him where he was actively engaged with people instead of just talking Game Theory. It's just a gut feeling at this point with no substance behind it I was trying to narrow down, further research required.
I'm mostly concerned about the impact of the Team Captain's on the players' thinking and behaviour, not what the slot can do mechanically. Even if the title is just customary and doesn't really do anything there's still this mindset of "we elected this person to be our 'leader' of sorts" floating around.
How does things like this help us catch scum?
Raitaki raises a valid point
Please expand upon this point.
Kilga's scumread on DNA seems...a little bit overblown? I think exchanges that go like "well I'm not scum since I'm drawing attention to myself" "nuh uh reverse psychology" are pretty customary and common, so I'm having trouble seeing why Kilga thinks that's a terrible response and marks DNA as scum.
How do you feel about Kilga re DNA is scummy for posting a lot?
Do you feel I was chainsaw defending DNA or using that as an Excuse to question people and kickstart the game?
And unless Shalako was talking about my RP posts last game, calling me fluff posting when I'm seriously trying to explain my line of thinking in basically RVS is uuuuuuh.
No, even when you were role playing last game you were much more involved instead of just posting stuff that has nothing of importance
##Unvote I want a Clear Cut statesmen from Dan before ending the day please.
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How does things like this help us catch scum?
Rhetorical question directed at Rei to be clear.
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Kilga's scumread on DNA seems...a little bit overblown? I think exchanges that go like "well I'm not scum since I'm drawing attention to myself" "nuh uh reverse psychology" are pretty customary and common, so I'm having trouble seeing why Kilga thinks that's a terrible response and marks DNA as scum.
wat
What is this "reverse psychology" chicanery I have no idea where it came from (unless it is in reference to the very generic gameplay-level reverse psychology in that scum will always attempt to look town because it is to their benefit???? idk)
See, the thing is that DNA said "I would not want to do X when scum" when X is a thing that is neither difficult nor dangerous for scum to do. It is thus an invalid response presented as a serious rebuttal to a semi-serious point. A townie could do much better than that, somewhat in the sense that there are more valid rebuttals (or at least less invalid ones) but more in the sense that I think a townie was less likely to have responded seriously to begin with.
How is someone posting a lot a reason to vote someone if they always post a lot.
Makes no sense to vote someone for something they ALWAYS do regardless of alignment
idk if the first question is directed at me since it doesn't really apply to me (but could be a gross misrepresentation of what I've been saying), but for the second thing, someone that plays in a scummy fashion is always worth voting no matter how often they do it. "Player meta" doesn't excuse scummy behaviour.
Fake Edit: I guess that first question is directed at me, then? Then hey there you go that's not something I've accused DNA of. (Not that posting a lot has endeared him - or anyone else that participated in yesterday's mini-spamfest - to me.)
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DNA is probscum, too many words on ED1 for town, kill it with water
Gross Misrepresentation my butt.
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Yes, clearly posting once is "too much".
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I think the issue here is that Shalako doesn't realize something said on page 1 should be taken fairly non-seriously :V
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I think the issue here is that Shalako doesn't realize something said on page 1 should be taken fairly non-seriously :V
He is serious about it since it's rolled over into more attacking Rei for things they'd say as town.
Every point he has against Rei is something Rei does as town and his response to that is to ignore this and say you just should lynch him anyways without bothering to learn how to read him.
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Yeah his other points are like the first scum case I've seen against anyone all day apart from your responses to them. And they aren't that terrible? Namely this reason
See, the thing is that DNA said "I would not want to do X when scum" when X is a thing that is neither difficult nor dangerous for scum to do. It is thus an invalid response presented as a serious rebuttal to a semi-serious point. A townie could do much better than that, somewhat in the sense that there are more valid rebuttals (or at least less invalid ones) but more in the sense that I think a townie was less likely to have responded seriously to begin with.
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tbh I thought that line about posting too much was in reference to this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205589.html#msg1205589) (because Shalako posting a lot is not the reason I suspect them but I can see how someone could twist my words in that post to make it look like that was my meaning)
I legit don't know how anyone could accuse me of going after DNA for "posting too much" when he had exactly one of the grand total of two game posts at the time I made that accusation
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And they aren't that terrible? Namely this reason
That's a terrible reason, he's Boxed Rei into a Loss-Loss Situation.
It's clearly WIFOM if Scum Rei would parade himself infront of the town. It's clearly possible Town Rei thinks that It wouldn't do be worth the risk for him if he was scum. Rei is also the type who would state this.
You really expect Rei to NOT respond seriously to a query to them?
He responded seriously to me posting a Comic as my explanation for gods sake.
I legit don't know how anyone could accuse me of going after DNA for "posting too much" when he had exactly one of the grand total of two game posts at the time I made that accusation
DNA is probscum, too many words on ED1 for town, kill it with water
"Posting too much" as in He is posting too much words.
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>_____> Then why didn't you actually say that? Surely you would look at "posts too much" and go "wait lemme rephrase that" if you truly meant "uses too many words" and not "posts too much"?
I don't even know how to respond to the rest of that, it's all based on player meta and I've already stated my position on that. I also don't know exactly where DNA "responded seriously to {Shalako} posting a Comic as {an} explanation" because comics were only posted twice and DNA didn't appear to address the comic (or the apparent point of posting the comic) either time.
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@Shalako: You're...right, actually. Right now I haven't seen anything discriminating, and I wasn't really sure on how to get people to talk more about things other than the team captain election without blatantly trying to distract people from that, which happens to the focus of the D1 vote.
About Kilga's scumread on DNA, it's not strong enough an abnormality to be a scumread even for ED1, but it'd serve well as a yardstick to measure Kilga's future opinions.
I feel that your defending of DNA, while not necessary, is based on basic logic and is a fairly natural reaction to the situation, so it's null. You did it even before Kilga called you out, so it's not chainsaw defending.
@Kilga: Well, I've seen the "I did this but scum wouldn't do this" "nah they totally can" discussion unfold so many times that I can't really see it as an indication of anything. Town says it, scum says it, everyone does.
On top of that, I feel like your expectation of DNA's response to be too disproportionate to the severity of the accusation. I mean, calling out someone for posting a lot of words ED1, especially when RP and personal taste purposes were likely to be part of the motive, and expecting a strong, proper rebuttal is just plain unreasonable. I mean they could have answered something honest and realistic like "well I felt like posting in fancy roleplay style"; would you have called them out anyway if they had given that answer? Basically a loss-loss situation for DNA, unless he intentionally invents some sophisticated reason for fancily posting a lot of words.
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You shouldn't care about any of it if you truly think me and DNA are scum together.
I mean I quoted your post about 3 times you could have figured it out by now pretty simply instead of acting like it's a miscommunication to distract from critiques of your absurd attack on Rei.
@Raitaki, Okay thanks I buy this
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On top of that, I feel like your expectation of DNA's response to be too disproportionate to the severity of the accusation. I mean, calling out someone for posting a lot of words ED1, especially when RP and personal taste purposes were likely to be part of the motive, and expecting a strong, proper rebuttal is just plain unreasonable. I mean they could have answered something honest and realistic like "well I felt like posting in fancy roleplay style"; would you have called them out anyway if they had given that answer?
That response would have made me care a lot less about him tbh, see bolded below
See, the thing is that DNA said "I would not want to do X when scum" when X is a thing that is neither difficult nor dangerous for scum to do. It is thus an invalid response presented as a serious rebuttal to a semi-serious point. A townie could do much better than that, somewhat in the sense that there are more valid rebuttals (or at least less invalid ones) but more in the sense that I think a townie was less likely to have responded seriously to begin with.
Shalako: I care because exposing that you are simply inventing things in response to my posts is more likely to get people to agree with me that you're scum, so.
Example: I notice that response is not actually pointing out where the thing you said happened actually happened!
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Oh, I see. I guess I glossed over that particular part. I still don't agree, but I can see where you're coming from.
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Shalako: I care because exposing that you are simply inventing things in response to my posts is more likely to get people to agree with me that you're scum, so.
Yea, that's my point, I was giving you rope to hang yourself.
You don't care about how poor your attack on Rei is.
You don't care that the things you attack Rei for he does as Town.
You care about grasping at straws to justify a Rei/Shalako Scum team after declaring Rei Scum off of his 1st post for poor reasons and digging into more nonsense to justify it.
If you did care about me not Linking to Rei you'd have read the thread and found the post he has after it where he refers to me and Celery stepping out of the race.
Or further more you'd have even dug and found that post not to your liking.
Instead you don't bother and go for the throat attacks.
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In simpler terms it attacking Rei for responding to a query is garbage.
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Work, post later
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I did go back and look for the post in question. In fact, I did so before asking you about where it was! Assuming you're referring to this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205470.html#msg1205470) DNA post being a response to this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205467.html#msg1205467) post from you, then I'd point out that DNA's question toward you wasn't in response to that picture at all, but obviously in response to you not voting for yourself (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205450.html#msg1205450). Which is actually a legitimate thing to respond to seriously, so I wouldn't say it's indicative of a penchant to take everything seriously as you implied it was.
If you're looking for me to admit that my DNA case isn't a slam-dunk case, then here you go, it's not a slam-dunk case by any stretch. As far as I'm concerned, though, it's good enough for a secondary Day 1 suspicion.
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you are simply inventing things in response to my posts
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Guh, I feel like there's nothing of substance I can offer right now. Looking over the Kilga v Shalako posts right now.
How does things like this help us catch scum?
I think the mentality that Rai's referring to is just a sort of "invincibility" tag that we choose to give to one person until they slip horribly and everyone starts thinking they're scum. As far as I've ventured, I think it's safe to say that whoever we vote as team captain can either:
a) be used as a scapegoat around endgame by scum, via never NKing them and leaving crumbs that falsely make the captain out to be scum
b) end up being scum that's making use of that "invincibility" tag somehow, though I can't figure any amazing reasoning on this point, beyond slipping out of the way of lynches for a couple days, or
c) be the first or second NK, in order to throw town into disarray.
I can see c) only being the case if the leader we vote ends up being a credible threat to scum during the early game and putting together strong reads on either or both scum candidates. Basically, we're just looking at telling one of us "hey, you're not getting lynched for a couple days, and we trust you a bit more than everyone else." At least, that's what I make of this captain business.
I know it's a rhetorical question, but I thought I might as well sum up how this whole scenario looks from my perspective.
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I think that's kind of assigning more value to the team captain than we have any reason to believe it's worth :S
I'm not really saying much but it's kind of awkward because we're not actually lynching anyone today, so? Discussion is somewhat awkward apart from the cute Kilga/Shalako slapfight. Maybe I should start talking in terms of who I'll be interested in lynching tomorrow? ...but, since there's not much discussion on scumminess, it's hard to evaluate anyone other than Kilga/Shalako, again. And when those two are just in a vacuum with eachother there isn't a lot to glean. :T
whatever I'm going to bed
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I know it's a rhetorical question, but I thought I might as well sum up how this whole scenario looks from my perspective.
Yea, my point is that doing that (set-up analysis) was compounded by a lack of behavior analysis.
That's what pinged Raki on my radar not disagreeing with his analysis or him even doing set-up analysis.
Like I'm not concerned about you doing it because you are concerned with things beyond just analysis.
Make sense?
I think that's kind of assigning more value to the team captain than we have any reason to believe it's worth :S
Agreed
Discussion is somewhat awkward
Action dan please, I need more info about the meta here.
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Kilga/Shalako slapfight.
Are you on the side of the guy who wants to lynch people for posting a lot and other people for posting a large amount?
(http://i.imgur.com/vtkGr0m.jpg?1)
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I didn't go to bed yet because I am naughty :C but my contacts are in now so I actually am crawling in bed after this post
Are you on the side of the guy who wants to lynch people for posting a lot and other people for posting a large amount?
I think this is a bit of a cherrypicker way to put it! It's not like I think you're scum, in any case, so I don't really need to be on a "side" (although technically I AM voting kilgamayan for prez 2015, I suppose, but I don't really have any townreads to rather wish to throw it at)
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Regarding Kilgs argument, Rei Ryugazaki wants to point out that the meat of Kilgs argument basically hinges upon a major slippery slope. Scum must respond seriously in early game->DNA is responding seriously->DNA is scum, which isn't exactly true. However, my major purpose in this broadcast only aims to address your second premise. Since for the 'scum must respond seriously' argument, I feel that is only a scumhunt logic which will become more or less valid depending on how the game unfolds. So thats less of a concern here.
Alright, so back on subject, you are basically accusing me for responding too seriously, when in fact I am not. My intent that I am fooling around and having fun should be obvious if you would reread my posts, I am just naturally wordy.
I am also kind of unsettled by how enthusiastic Shalako is at defending me and tunneling Kilga on D1 that it seems excessive. While I don't in particular agree with CF7's apathetic attitude towards the election, I can sympathize with it since it can be explained reasonably depending on his judgement of the value of the TC. But there's just so much conviction in Shalakos posting over a relatively minor issue (Kilg attacking me for too much effort) it almost seems like he has other reasons for that, or that's the vibe I am getting.
Serela, question! Why in particular made you want to vote Kilg over me?
Raitaki still a shining beacon of towness, looking great.
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VOTE COUNT
CF7 (0): CF7
Rei Ryugazaki (3): Rei Ryugazaki, Shalako, ActionDan, Nagisa Hazuki, Raitaki, Raitaki
Kilga (3): Kilga, Serela, CF7
Serela (1): ActionDan
Raitaki (0): Raitaki
Undecided (1): Shalako
With 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to elect a team captain! 1 Day and 3 Hours remain (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20150814T13&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+Day+1&font=cursive&csz=1&swk=1) to make a decision. If the Day ends without a hammer, highest amount of votes wins by default.
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Please expand upon this point.
Well, the player who is elected as a TC might get a free pass, due to people trusting said person a bit more and they might overlook something slightly scummy, which under normal circumstances would make the TC look more scummy. Still it's too early for that, anyway.
@ Rei.
I think TC is just too much work to really make effort of becoming one.
Some thoughts.
Kilga/Shalako/Rei little spat is kind of interesting. Shalako's chainsaw defense of Rei is notable, but it seems there was some heavy misunderstanding. I don't believe in Shalako/Rei scum pair right now, but i'll reexamine that possibility in the future. That said, i think that there might be one of the scums here. Maybe even Kilga =)
Serela, Raitaki and... Nagisa are here and there's some content, some explaining, and overall they participated in discussion. I think the second scum is here.
Also have no idea what to think about Dan. He's kind of not here, but that's his more or less normal behavior. On other hand, it makes him really hard to read. Will probably need more info.
Also we have roughly one day left and i don't think opinions will change much. But, actually you all can vote for me and i'll make all our lives better. =)
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Actually, a more concise summarization of my opinions on the current going ons after the ensuing Kilg v Shalako are basically;
Kilg disputes the intent of my effort, and seems too keen about it for a D1 case, I feel that its a bit misguided though since 'effort=scum' is a very meta heavy case, which is a especially weak for D1 when alot of stuff is yet to set in stone, and then Kilg just somehow backed off a bit by stating his case was 'good enough for a secondary suspicion', which begs the question, who's your primary suspect, and why?
Pretty sure Shalako isn't pulling a chainsaw defense? He's just hard defending me by arguing 'posting alot is what DNA does all the time' versus when Kilgs point is 'DNA has too much words', since I am pretty sure Kilgs too much words and Shalakos too many posts don't mean the same thing, they are basically debating on parallels here. I do find Shalako again overly pushy though. Is that like a scumtell for him?
CF7 and Serela are both atm very average disinterested players voters, moving on
Raitaki and Nagisa I could listen to all day, their logic are pretty sound, but Nagisa is admittedly more sheeping or further reorganizing the arguments laid out instead of extrapolating and outputting new content which is what Raitaki did, both are great early townreads though
I sometimes have no idea why Dan signed up if he isn't playing, like, even if I assume bard gave you a crappy post restriction, at least quote sth and try to tell us that since you've shown you can do that
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I guess I'll just put down my reads thus far; there's nothing else I feel I can add in right now.
I'm suspicious of Kilg, but not enough to say he's scum yet. I get the general gist of his thinking in his argument with Shalako, but I don't fully agree with it, particularly around his rebuttal to Rei-chan's first argument. Serela was doing the exact same thing with his fakeclaim last game, and while he seemed scummy throughout that game, the same logic applied there as with Rei-chan's apparent attention grab. Serela may have had crappy play that game, but the timing of his fakeclaim wasn't very scummy. It's a null point. Not to mention RP fluff. It was a decent point to at least start up conversation for ED1, but I just generally don't agree with it. Keeping an eye on Kilg for now.
Shalako's play thus far is much easier to read and understand than last game, so I'm feeling a bit more of a town vibe, if only for that much. Then again, he only really got difficult to read over when Rei-chan started up the wagon on him D2, so it's a moot point. Townlean for now, though.
I trust Rei-chan thus far. CF7 made a good analogy to reading a legal document, but I don't see any big problems with his logic as of yet. I'd rather have him hold the TC flag if we're to run on the current "player behaviour" logic we've ranted on. My only question though is why you've got a townread on me with what little information I've been able to bring to the table? It's as you said: mosty of what I've been doing is sheeping and reorganizing arguments, and I haven't put any new arguments out there as of yet. Heck, I'd argue that, up until this post and perhaps even including it, I've kept to a very passive style of play, which is more null as far as alignment goes.
Serela's laissez-faire attitude toward all this bothers me a bit. There's not a lot to run on from what he's been posting thus far, but I know last game, there was mention of him having a poor D1 meta. Hoping to see some improvement when D2 rolls around.
Raitaki's cool. I get his thinking, and while I've made my point on why popular opinion may not be a wise route to go, I feel I'm on the same wavelength on most every point he's presented beyond that, and my gut's giving me a townread thus far.
While I don't feel CF7's behaviour is as lackluster as Serela's, I do want to hear a bit more from him. Something that gives me a bit better an idea of who he thinks is scum beyond "one scum in the fight, one on the sidelines."
Dan, PLEASE POST AND GIVE US SOMETHING TO WORK WITH! Like, if you have some weird quote role that restricts your amount of participation, please quote this section of my message so we at least know that much, because I know your meta involves a lot of lurking, (which is irritating in itself) but it gives us nothing to work off of, and town suffers for it.
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Rei Ryugazaki wants to point out that the meat of Kilgs argument basically hinges upon a major slippery slope. Scum must respond seriously in early game->DNA is responding seriously->DNA is scum, which isn't exactly true.
You're right, it's hardly a guarantee. I even admit as much myself when I said town is "less likely" to behave this way. I don't know why you would equate "town is less likely" to "scum must".
Alright, so back on subject, you are basically accusing me for responding too seriously, when in fact I am not. My intent that I am fooling around and having fun should be obvious if you would reread my posts, I am just naturally wordy.
It's actually not obvious at all! It came immediately after two pretty clearly serious comments (first to CF7, second to Serela and Shalako), so even with the over-the-top-ness of the sentence that followed it still very much looks like a serious response.
which begs the question, who's your primary suspect, and why?
Would think the answer to this would be obvious to someone (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205527.html#msg1205527) that's (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205589.html#msg1205589) reading (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205794.html#msg1205794) my (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205806.html#msg1205806) posts (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205816.html#msg1205816). :( (Hint: It's Shalako) The obviousness is exacerbated by the fact that I've not really talked about anyone else - mostly since a number of people have done very little worth commenting on! - so who else could the primary suspicion possibly be?
Speaking of other people, not to napalm my own fanbase or anything, but I'm mildly concerned with Serela spending the game more or less following me around like a dog, as well as CF7 spending a fair number of words to not really say anything meaningful (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205938.html#msg1205938). I would like to see more opinions from both (unique opinions from the former, substantial opinions from the latter).
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POOL PARTY VOTE COUNT
Mod request: Please assume the party escort position!
CF7 (0): CF7
Rei Ryugazaki (3): Rei Ryugazaki, Shalako, ActionDan, Nagisa Hazuki, Raitaki, Raitaki
Kilga (3): Kilga, Serela, CF7
Serela (1): ActionDan
Raitaki (0): Raitaki
Undecided (1): Shalako
With 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to elect a team captain! Less than 13 hours remain (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20150814T13&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+Day+1&font=cursive&csz=1&swk=1) to be voting! If the Day ends without a hammer, highest amount of votes wins by default. Exciting!
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Vote Rei Ryugazaki some stuff to go over when I have time but just checking in because no sure if able to before deadline
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Okay, to keep things manageable and understandable;
Intent analysis, to me, is more important than content analysis, especially at such an early point of the game, when only arbitrary clears can be reasonably passed around. As such, even though Nagisa wasn't having lots of fresh content, I think I can get behind simply finding RVS tiresome, and his explanation has a strong vibe of someone intent of solving the game instead of just trying to get a free pass, his further questioning only served to strengthen that view. I am townclearing Raitaki for generally the same reason, hes keen on analyzing the potential effect of the TC at an angle I feel that scum will not feel inclined to bring up because of how unecessary it is as scum wouldn't need to clarify the gamestate.
The same reason is why that I am rather dubious on Shalako's alignment. I feel that he's too eager to attack Kilg for his stated reasons. Meanwhile I feel that Kilg is just making a genuine attempt to get us out of RVS and even though we can agree to disagree, I feel that he's giving off generally towny vibes. The same goes for CF7, he's apathetic, but his sentiments are genuine enough I believe I can overlook them atm.
At the moment, I feel that Serela is just skimming the thread and is the nullest thing aside from Dan, but given how this D1 seems to have some very nice interaction amongst players, speaking in relative terms thats pretty scummy. But if I am choosing a lynch between them I still probably will want to advocate for a policy lynch Dan tomorrow first though, given if he doesn't improve.
Kilg's response is also very interesting, for his scumreads all seem rather reactionary and tunnelish. Firstly, he extends his RVS scumread on me and further solidfies its status as a 'serious vote', then he names Shalako as his primary suspect apparently because 'hes the only one attacking me', which all seems pretty OMGUS for me. He's also had some fringe interaction with other people though, but doesn't really go beyond engaging them for much of the juicy content they brought out (such as Raitakis, Nagisa and CF's), but is instead handwaving most of them and telling them to 'output more substantial content', which should only apply to Serela, not CF7. So overall scum lean I suppose.
Also, agree with Kilg on the part concerning Serela, output more substantial content pls
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then he names Shalako as his primary suspect apparently because 'hes the only one attacking me', which all seems pretty OMGUS for me
What? No. Shalako is scum for (a) defending you so hard early on when Town Shalako would have no idea what your alignment is, and (b) making stuff up in response to my posts, like the "posting too much" thing (whose explanation was not very satisfying, before anyone asks), the "responded seriously to a manga image" thing (and then responded with venom when asked to point out this non-existent response instead of actually pointing out the response), and then most recently this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205885.html#msg1205885), which is a very inaccurate assessment of the reasons for my suspicions.
He's also had some fringe interaction with other people though, but doesn't really go beyond engaging them for much of the juicy content they brought out (such as Raitakis, Nagisa and CF's), but is instead handwaving most of them
I'm not talking about everyone on Day 1, that's a waste of time. Frankly I think I've already posted too much today.
telling them to 'output more substantial content', which should only apply to Serela, not CF7
Go back and read that CF7 post I linked. Really read it. Then come back and tell me who CF7 thinks is scum and who CF7 thinks is town. Here's a hint: You won't be able to, because there's no indication of suspicions beyond "probably one scum in this group of three, probably the other scum in this other group of three, no idea about the seventh guy".
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So upon rereading my post, I realized I wasn't being clear on how I am 'having townish vibes' from Kilg but still drawing the conclusion that Kilg is 'overall scum lean' for me in the same post, since I feel that can be easily misinterpreted as me being contradictory, I want to clarify it a bit here;
From the Kilg vs Shalako, Kilg came off as townish in his push for me, because at the time it was RVS and even though his push seems rather weak, I had to agree with him as indeed it was 'good enough for a D1 scumread'.
However, his followup posts to set Shalako as his primary scumread and justifying the 'D1 scumread' on me seems forced, and I don't particularly agree with his attempt to handwave CF7's content when CF7 seems to have rather genuine sentiments on the game. I feel that his PoE based on player is an acceptable analysis (although I don't necessarily agree with that), and he has cleared declared his disinterest in the voting process. So overall, I am getting the feeling of a competent player who, while able to spot out intent such as he demonstrated in this post;I did go back and look for the post in question. In fact, I did so before asking you about where it was! Assuming you're referring to this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205470.html#msg1205470) DNA post being a response to this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205467.html#msg1205467) post from you, then I'd point out that DNA's question toward you wasn't in response to that picture at all, but obviously in response to you not voting for yourself (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205450.html#msg1205450). Which is actually a legitimate thing to respond to seriously, so I wouldn't say it's indicative of a penchant to take everything seriously as you implied it was.
If you're looking for me to admit that my DNA case isn't a slam-dunk case, then here you go, it's not a slam-dunk case by any stretch. As far as I'm concerned, though, it's good enough for a secondary Day 1 suspicion.
Kilg is however holding his hand and attacking weaker players for the sake of it, so I feel that its rather dubious, thus overall a scum lean to me.
cut by 1
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Okay, why are townreads already being thrown everywhere? The first actual lynch is a whole 2 phases away and not all of us have even started to really scumhunt yet, so I'm kind of baffled people are already leaking a list of people scum should shoot. It's one thing to declare townreads when the lynch pool is limited or if your townread is at risk of being lynched, but this current timing is pretty unwise.
Suspending judgment on Shalako for now. His repeated attempts to attack Kilga while describing his actions in a scummy light look pretty suspicious, but his little interactions with other players are okay in my opinion. Like, compare to last game where a lot of Shalako's interactions with people who weren't his scumreads were just minor lines of questioning he never picked up again or just asking people to explain their reads. This time I think his questions are more...consequential and directed at finding scum/prodding people to scumhunt. tl;dr Shalako's posts so far seemed to have a bigger focus on scumhunting than his scum posts last game.
Not really following CF7's train of thought. Why do you think the second scum is among me/Serela/Nagisa, and not Dan? Your latest post implies that you don't think Dan is scum for some reason. And while I would kind of understand if CF7 has no idea who's likely to be scum at this point, it seems pretty lazy to say "I think scum is among these specific people!" and then make zero effort whatsoever to at least rank them by scumminess or even saying anything about them as individuals at all. It's like he put people in 2 groups and pointed at them and say "aha! This is scum #1! And this is scum #2!" then just left it like that as if he actually put in any effort to find scum at all. Leaning scum.
I get that there's not much going on for a D1 that should be already out of RVS, but it'd still be nice if Serela at least mentions anything she finds weird ; v; It's not a lynch day so I doubt people would judge you much if you can't decide if these weird things are scummy or null yet, so.
cut by 2 I haven't read cuz dinner
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goddamnit kilga now i look like i'm sheeping ;_;
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tI think this is a bit of a cherrypicker way to put it!
Totally, but why fence sit on what you think of me randomly instead of answering it?
I don't care what people think of me and it's not what I asked you.
I am also kind of unsettled by how enthusiastic Shalako is at defending me and tunneling Kilga on D1 that it seems excessive. But there's just so much conviction in Shalakos posting over a relatively minor issue (Kilg attacking me for too much effort) it almost seems like he has other reasons for that, or that's the vibe I am getting.
It's pretty clear that Kilg is starting from a theory and is grasping for proof of it instead of seeing events and developing a theory.
It's absurd that Kilg purposely didn't show any of the things he believes were inventions of mine to further his attack and instead waited for me to point out he didn't.
Absurd.
I did go back and look for the post in question. In fact, I did so before asking you about where it was!
We are expected to believe that while Kilg is looking for things to nail me during his crusade he didn't bring up something to further support his reads until I questioned him over it.
Only then does he claim to have already done it to try to defend away my criticism.
He's inventing motivations that are ridiculous to explain away non-conforming behaviors of his to defend from a reach instead of attacking me for reaching.
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If it's not too on the nose, it's clear he's making Bricks without Clay. (http://www.thesmackdownhotel.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/sherlock.gif)
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It's absurd that Kilg purposely didn't show any of the things he believes were inventions of mine to further his attack and instead waited for me to point out he didn't.
?
making stuff up in response to my posts, like the "posting too much" thing (whose explanation was not very satisfying, before anyone asks), the "responded seriously to a manga image" thing (and then responded with venom when asked to point out this non-existent response instead of actually pointing out the response), and then most recently this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205885.html#msg1205885), which is a very inaccurate assessment of the reasons for my suspicions
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the "posting too much" thing
idk if the first question is directed at me since it doesn't really apply to me (but could be a gross misrepresentation of what I've been saying), but for the second thing, someone that plays in a scummy fashion is always worth voting no matter how often they do it. "Player meta" doesn't excuse scummy behaviour.
Fake Edit: I guess that first question is directed at me, then? Then hey there you go that's not something I've accused DNA of.
I legit don't know how anyone could accuse me of going after DNA for "posting too much" when he had exactly one of the grand total of two game posts at the time I made that accusation
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the "responded seriously to a manga image" thing
I also don't know exactly where DNA "responded seriously to {Shalako} posting a Comic as {an} explanation" because comics were only posted twice and DNA didn't appear to address the comic (or the apparent point of posting the comic) either time.
Shalako: I care because exposing that you are simply inventing things in response to my posts is more likely to get people to agree with me that you're scum, so.
Example: I notice that response is not actually pointing out where the thing you said happened actually happened!
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(For those keeping score at home, that was a compilation of instances where I point out that Shalako is making stuff up. It was written in response to a claim that I intentionally did not bring up any of the things Shalako made up until after I was accused of such an act. Yet, all of the quoted posts where I point out that Shalako is making stuff up are from before the accusation that I was not bringing any of the things up. Appropriately enough, this makes Shalako's latest accusation just one more thing Shalako made up.)
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I did go back and look for the post in question. In fact, I did so before asking you about where it was!
And now he's using posts AFTER I QUESTIONED HIM over that aren't even related to the topic at hand (Why wouldn't Kilg use something to further his argument instead of waiting for me to call him out on not using it to "catch me")to try and trick people!
He's already tried a poor line of attack that relies on Posting too much and Posting too large being non-synonyms and now this.
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Yea, that's my point, I was giving you rope to hang yourself.
You don't care about how poor your attack on Rei is.
You don't care that the things you attack Rei for he does as Town.
You care about grasping at straws to justify a Rei/Shalako Scum team after declaring Rei Scum off of his 1st post for poor reasons and digging into more nonsense to justify it.
If you did care about me not Linking to Rei you'd have read the thread and found the post he has after it where he refers to me and Celery stepping out of the race.
Or further more you'd have even dug and found that post not to your liking.
Instead you don't bother and go for the throat attacks.
For you keeping track at home AFTER this is where Kal claims he did in fact do this just didn't use it to support his "case" for some nebulous reason, and invents nonsense to justify him doing this, hence my quote of him calling out me for "inventing things".
His latest post is desperate and his further attacks on me for "Not showing Rei taking my Comic seriously" ignore the underlined part because he's not interested in how factual his argument is, merely propagating it.
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3 hours to deadline.
I am still at work and will be on and off, if someone has questions for me I will be glad to answer them, just make them concise ty
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Wow, those posts make no sense whatsoever. Let's try this.
You really expect Rei to NOT respond seriously to a query to them?
He responded seriously to me posting a Comic as my explanation for gods sake.
The original statement.
I also don't know exactly where DNA "responded seriously to {Shalako} posting a Comic as {an} explanation" because comics were only posted twice and DNA didn't appear to address the comic (or the apparent point of posting the comic) either time.
My response to the original statement, with bolding added for emphasis. Notice how I point out the specific number of times comics were posted? This is because I went back and looked for a comic with a serious response to it, and I wanted to make sure I caught all posts with comics in them.
You shouldn't care about any of it if you truly think me and DNA are scum together.
Shalako: I care because exposing that you are simply inventing things in response to my posts is more likely to get people to agree with me that you're scum, so.
Example: I notice that response is not actually pointing out where the thing you said happened actually happened!
If you did care about me not Linking to Rei you'd have read the thread and found the post he has after it where he refers to me and Celery stepping out of the race.
The exchange that led to the accusation that I didn't bother going back to look for a DNA response to a comic. Notice how this all takes place after the bolded statement.
Your claim is that I only looked back for the post in question after being called out for not looking. However, not only did I do so, but there is in-thread evidence that I did so; my production of the number of comic posts. Unless you are proposing that I memorized the number of comics that were posted, or only went back to check comic posts and not any possible responses, and simply didn't bother to do any fact-checking despite the fact that it took all of thirty seconds to do so? Confirmation on this either way would be appreciated for clarity purposes.
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Related to this, since there is still a claim that this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205470.html#msg1205470), the post "where he refers to me and Celery stepping out of the race", is in response to this post with a comic in it (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205467.html#msg1205467), I will point out again that the post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205470.html#msg1205470) "where he refers to me and Celery stepping out of the race" is in response to this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205449.html#msg1205449), where Serela votes for someone other than himself, and this post (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205450.html#msg1205450), where Shalako votes for someone other than themselves. This bunch of links means that DNA never responded seriously to this post with a comic in it (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205467.html#msg1205467), despite Shalako's that DNA did so.
DNA, direct clarification as to your intentions with the post "where {you} refer to {Shalako} and Celery stepping out of the race" would be appreciated, particularly in regard at to which posts or posts it was in response to. I think it's obvious, but clearly that doesn't amount to much in this situation.
I really don't know how much clearer I can make any of this. And really, whether or not I cross-referenced every single comic post and possible response or not when I pointed out that Shalako was making stuff up in this case shouldn't really matter, because it doesn't change the fact that Shalako was making stuff up in this case, as has been explained twice now.
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DNA, direct clarification as to your intentions with the post "where {you} refer to {Shalako} and Celery stepping out of the race" would be appreciated, particularly in regard at to which posts or posts it was in response to. I think it's obvious, but clearly that doesn't amount to much in this situation.
I really don't know how much clearer I can make any of this. And really, whether or not I cross-referenced every single comic post and possible response or not when I pointed out that Shalako was making stuff up in this case shouldn't really matter, because it doesn't change the fact that Shalako was making stuff up in this case, as has been explained twice now.
I too really don't understand why I even need to clarify this when I made a post stating that 'Kilg is a strong player good at identifying intent', where I basically already implied I wasn't answering seriously to the comics at all.
also, I feel that I am townreading Kilg much more after the recent fiasco, I think I can sympathize more with Kilgs frustration since I underwent the exact same thing as town with shalako last game, and understand its a pretty aggravating experience. Especially since my primary reason for suspecting Kilg seems much more justifiable from a town perspective, as I did the same 'deliberately attacking weaker players thing' as town last game too.
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POOL PARTY VOTE COUNT
Mod request: Please assume the party escort position!
CF7 (0): CF7
Rei Ryugazaki (4): Rei Ryugazaki, Shalako, ActionDan, Nagisa Hazuki, Raitaki, Raitaki, Shalako
Kilga (3): Kilga, Serela, CF7
Serela (1): ActionDan
Raitaki (0): Raitaki
With 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to elect a team captain! 1 hour and 23 minutes remain (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20150814T13&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+Day+1&font=cursive&csz=1&swk=1) to be voting! If the Day ends without a hammer, highest amount of votes wins by default.
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Your claim is that I only looked back for the post in question after being called out for not looking.
Goddamn Lies, I said you didn't use it to make your case stronger.
Yea, that's my point, I was giving you rope to hang yourself. This is yet another poor attack just a blatant Strawman this time.
You don't care about how poor your attack on Rei is.
You don't care that the things you attack Rei for he does as Town.
You care about grasping at straws to justify a Rei/Shalako Scum team after declaring Rei Scum off of his 1st post for poor reasons and digging into more nonsense to justify it.
If you did care about me not Linking to Rei you'd have read the thread and found the post he has after it where he refers to me and Celery stepping out of the race.
Or further more you'd have even dug and found that post not to your liking.
Instead you don't bother and go for the throat attacks.
You ALSO quoted me out of context in a blatant attempt to make me look weaker
>_____> Then why didn't you actually say that? Surely you would look at "posts too much" and go "wait lemme rephrase that" if you truly meant "uses too many words" and not "posts too much"?
You shouldn't care about any of it if you truly think me and DNA are scum together.
I mean I quoted your post about 3 times you could have figured it out by now pretty simply instead of acting like it's a miscommunication to distract from critiques of your absurd attack on Rei.
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This is yet another poor attack just a blatant Strawman this time.
Should be next to my 1st sentence,
don't have time to read Rei but he's saying he didn't accept the comic as my motivation?
I figured that sentence about understanding your intention of resigning clear was because of the comic?
Since Sel explained and I just posted a Comic?
Why not question me for my motivation then???
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That first thing still makes no sense. Are you saying that I'm scum for not using a point against you to further a case against DNA? Because what is that I don't even.
For the second thing I'm at work and don't have time to go back and re-read properly to be sure, but a quick check suggests you may have been responding to one thing while I thought you were responding to another. I'll have a look at it over the game night.
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No, I just don't think its very relevant for me so I did not address it. Far as I see that is because the comics themselves are RVS shenanigans which I don't have a problem with, and is only relevant for your discussion w/ Kilga because it involves arguing who was making stuff up, and the context of what others are responding to (aka comics) matters for your respective arguments.
Tldr addressing it not benefitial to my scumhunting, and isnt even relevant to me or the majority of the gamestate, me not participating in your quarrel (and by extension, other players) means we can have unbiased information regarding your interactions, so I didnt address that.
Honestly, even putting all that aside the 'who was making shit up' is very mudslingish, and the comic stuff was more grasping at straws, the argument is already going in circles, so I would advise you, Shalako, to stop pursuing it and clog the thread, since i believe we already had more than enough on the table for analysis.
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15 minutes to deadline.
BTW Bard, pls no portal references
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That first thing still makes no sense. Are you saying that I'm scum for not using a point against you to further a case against DNA? Because what is that I don't even.
You don't care about how poor your attack on Rei is.
You don't care that the things you attack Rei for he does as Town.
You care about grasping at straws to justify a Rei/Shalako Scum team after declaring Rei Scum off of his 1st post for poor reasons and digging into more nonsense to justify it.
I've outlined over and over again how your attacks are poor. You purposely act obtuse like not being able to put together that many posts can mean long posts.
In this case it's because you don't care about finding out if Rei responds to things as Town when all you have to do is read Rei's last game and see how much of a serious player he is and how likely he would be to respond to a query.
But you don't care about it.
You don't care about if your reads are correct or not.
You don't care that attacking someone after misrepresenting their words is ludicrous.
You don't care to explain why me and rei would be a Scum-Team you just care about spraying people.
You outright lie about things that happened in the game and when called out on it just hand wave it.
You just swap into attacking to distract from how poor your arguments are.
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Shalako, no toxic rule
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Not many posts, Posts a lot.
How is someone posting a lot a reason to vote someone if they always post a lot.
Makes no sense to vote someone for something they ALWAYS do regardless of alignment
.
We don't know how long whatever Team Captain does lasts and they can't shoot him until N2.
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Reminder day already endef
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CF7 (0): CF7
Rei Ryugazaki (4): Rei Ryugazaki, Shalako, ActionDan, Nagisa Hazuki, Raitaki, Raitaki, Shalako
Kilga (3): Kilga, Serela, CF7
Serela (1): ActionDan
Raitaki (0): Raitaki
DAY END, REI RYUGAZAKI BECOMES TEAM CAPTAIN!
Details for this position will follow tomorrow!
1 Day before end of N1. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20150815T1334&p0=%3A&font=cursive&swk=1)
Due to the powers of a role, you are allowed to talk at night.
Reminder: Send in any Night Actions to both PX and me!
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Anyone want to claim responsibility?
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I'm not sure anyone should claim responsibility right now, it paints a rather large "Kill Me" target on their back.
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Its more like a kneejerk questioning though, since I kind of have a hunch Dan could be the enabler of this nighttalk and given how unnecessarily quiet he is during the day. I don't really expect it to be answered otherwise though :v , so I suppose thanks for clarifying that.
But since now we are free to work out the lynch, who should it be? I am interested in lynching one of Shalako/Kilg because the spat makes me feel its unlikely both of them are on the scumteam. I am currently leaning Shalako
Other option probably is Serela, or dan
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OKAY. My mafia'ing has been irresponsible between IRL things and then Touhou 15 coming out today and d1 being even more bleh than usual from not having a lynch to stimulate discussion. Thankfully, we have nighttalk so I can correct this :D Time to properly assert myself.
At first I was going to say "First of all, Shalako is not scum." But then I realized he got in a slapfight with town d1 last game as scum, too? No, no, this looks completely different still. This Shalako is much more proactive, the attitude and playstyle isn't similar. It rings very town to me, even if I do not necessarily agree with his conclusions/methods/whatever. (Someone was talking about "why are you spouting townreads aaa" earlier but since Shalako seems to be suspected by multiple people, I think this is a relevant one to mention.)
Overall, I think it's a town/town slapfight between him/Kilga, although I'm not as strongly sold on Kilga!town all things considered. Now that I look at it again, I mean, I still think Kilga's actions for most of the day were fine, but eventually it does start looking somewhat overblown. I think this might just be happening due to the low discussion weird D1-without-a-lynch environment? TBH I probably shouldn't say it looks like a town/town slapfight because I'm actually thinking I should probably keep an eye on Kilga, especially because I know he's a good player that probably won't be obvious if he's scum. Really, what I would like to help read his slot is reading stuff that isn't from a slapfight :V That's what D2 will be for though of course
I'm not sure why Raitaki is being showered in town praise :S I actually thought his earlier posts were pretty insignificant, and whilst #108 was an improvement that was -after- several people were already going "YEAH RAIKTAI IS DA MAN", and I still wouldn't expect that one to provoke such strong reactions from everyone. I could see him going either way. Apart from that, my interest is on CF7, and Dan is obviously, uhm, a thing that exists. CF7 just seems to spout reads and say "well, I think out of x/y/z... there is a scum! And from a/b/c... there is probably also a scum!" but the accompanying justification is fluff, and there doesn't really seem to be any logical correlation to why scums A and B should be in these groups. :S
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I don't think my stance has changed much on anyone as of yet. I don't really agree with Serela's assessment on the Kilg v Shalako argument being town/town, at least not at the moment. I could buy Shalako pushing this hard based off of last game, but I feel as if he's more town-sided this game. I'm still keeping an eye on Kilg. Rereading that argument hasn't gotten me anywhere as of yet, so I'm hoping there are some better interactions to get a better read off of one of them D2, or even within the night.
The read I have on Rai is more gut, admittedly, but with what posts he's offered, there's been valuable enough insight that gives me the same intent vibe that Rei-chan's been talking about; he seems more intent on solving the case rather than getting himself a free pass. Rai's 83 is where that shines through the most for me.
As for CF7, I'm in agreement with everyone else, and I'd like to hear why he doesn't feel like pinning down who exactly he thinks could be scum at the moment. I know there's not a lot of information to run with at this point, but I'm sure now you can offer us more insight on the individuals you've been questioning. Which of Shalako, Kilg and Rei-chan are you most suspicious of? And what about of me, Serela and Raitaki? Why do you feel you can outright exempt the possibility of Dan being scum?
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Oookay, Shalako is a little too deep in conspiracy theorist territory now. Saying someone is scummy for not nitpicking their scumread on D1 is kind of ridiculous, and I can't even understand anything he brought up after that point. The "many posts = long posts" thing honestly confuses the heck out of me, the best I could manage is to guess that it's a (pretty nonsensical) response to Kilga saying that he wasn't accusing DNA of making too many posts because DNA had only posted twice at a time. And then he went back to just simply re-listing Kilga's actions in the simplest and scummiest light, again. I don't know if Shalako does this as town or if this points to him being scum, but I'm just going to say: It's terrible malicious and toxic and it's winning you Z-E-R-O points in the eyes of other people. And before you argue that you don't care how town views you as long as you catch scum for town, I'm just going to say that no, you're not helping us catch scum. All you are doing right now is overloading the thread with a bunch of textdump that nobody wants to read because of how toxic it is. I guarantee you that as long as you post like this, nobody will get an inkling of what you're trying to say, and we'd honestly prefer you just voting Kilga then disappearing until phase end rather than sitting there defacing Kilga with your ad hominem.
Dan is currently being even worse than, like, all the games I remember with him in it. Damn I want to vote.
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You ALSO quoted me out of context in a blatant attempt to make me look weaker
Okay, yeah, this one is a brain lapse on my part. For some reason I parsed post #84 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205809.html#msg1205809) as a response to the second half of my post #82 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205806.html#msg1205806), when looking back on it again it's more obviously a response to the first part. My bad.
The rest of that post is...well, I've already made my position on player meta clear (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205781.html#msg1205781), so. And even ignoring my opinion about player meta, that's an awful lot of angst that's at least partially over me not "doing my research" when coming up with a just-above-joke-vote-level reason to cast a suspicion in the third part of the game. (FWIW I don't care about much DNA anymore, nothing he's done in the actual meaningful part of the game as been very scummy.)
Other things are that, on top of CF7, I don't know who Serela or Patorikku would vote for right now if they could cast one. Not because they're not voting, but because I can't glean a solid "I think this person is probably scum" suspicion from reading over their posts. This is mildly worrying. Who WOULD you two vote for if you could, given the chance? (Don't say Dan, that's the super lazy answer.)
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The rest of that post
Oop, this is in reference to post #125, not the rest of post #120.
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Other things are that, on top of CF7, I don't know who Serela or Patorikku would vote for right now if they could cast one. Not because they're not voting, but because I can't glean a solid "I think this person is probably scum" suspicion from reading over their posts. This is mildly worrying. Who WOULD you two vote for if you could, given the chance? (Don't say Dan, that's the super lazy answer.)
On top of CF7? Do you mean apart from? :S I mean I'm probably going to vote CF7 going into d2. Apart from that I need to keep looking at you and Raitaki but I don't actually have a scum read on either of you right now, you're just the two (plus Dan) I could sooner see maybe being scum.
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Other things are that, on top of CF7, I don't know who Serela or Patorikku would vote for right now if they could cast one. Not because they're not voting, but because I can't glean a solid "I think this person is probably scum" suspicion from reading over their posts. This is mildly worrying. Who WOULD you two vote for if you could, given the chance? (Don't say Dan, that's the super lazy answer.)
Right now, I feel as if my vote tomorrow is between you and Shalako, and actually leaning a bit more toward Shalako due to the toxic nature of his last post. I recognize it's more of a policy vote if I base it solely off of that, so I want to see more reactions between the two of you before I set that vote down in stone. I'm almost certain one of you is scum after that extensive back-and-forth that took up the entirety of the day, but it's just a problem of figuring out which one of you it is.
Beyond that, I want to hear how CF7 responds to my queries before I say anything for certain, but he is getting a scum lean from me right now.
Dan's a policy vote due to hyper-extreme lurking to downright being absent from the game. I'm not even bothering with him until he posts something.
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Serela: Perhaps "in addition to CF7" would have been a better turn of phrase. I was clumping the three of you together on the grounds that I couldn't tell who any of you suspected strongly enough to be willing to vote for them.
Fake Edit: Mmm. Satisfactory answers from both of you, I suppose, though I think I like Patorikku's a bit more (independently of my opinion of Shalako). I kind of want to say that CF7 suspicions aren't too hard to have right now either (given the number of times his behaviour has already been publicly noted), but scummy behaviour is scummy behaviour, so I can't really hold it against either of you (and a CF7 case is certainly more efforted than a Dan case). Maybe I'm just sad that I didn't get something unexpected. :v
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Ya night talk is me, clearly. Also pr ended. Yeah I decided not to read after I realized that pr was hell.
So. Any leads half naked boiz. And lady. Serela is like town though. I bank on it
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Dan, questions.
Why initially vote me? Then decided to vote Serela?
whats your take on the Kilg v Shalako slapfight?
Scumreads and townreads? Lynch targets?
Any other observations?
Is your nightalk compulsive (stay silent or get modkilled) or optional? (Each day phase you say nothing everyone gets nightalk)
Answers ty
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Competing wagons are fun.
But serela was town.
Didn't read that. I'm not a fan of shalako. I was a bit taken aback by kilgas appeal to me but I don't scumread him.
Shurg
Nope
Um. Follow pr. Get nighttalk. For D1/n1 only
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So woefully little happened. I think we are pretty much in agreement on who to lynch though, its either Dan/Shalako, followed by CF7, probably I am missing something on why Cf7 is scum tho, a case on him would be great
I wish Dan and Shalako would say sth though, its kind of depressing how they just don't even try to play
Cut by Dan posting :v
Elaborate more on why Serela town? Was it because of Serelas explaination on why hes disinterested in competing for the TC position?
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17 minutes to deadline
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Something along those lines. If you directly compare it to cf7 saying the same thing it's sort of night and day. Not that cf7's explanation was that bad of it's own accord though
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I was a bit taken aback by kilgas appeal to me
That was mostly ED1 horsing around anyway
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Oh. I didn't realize it was night with night talk enabled so i didn't even bother looking at the thread. Sorry. Still at work will be home in ~4 hours. Hopefully didn't miss much.
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Night 1 has ended!
All roles (where applicable) have been resolved and night action results have been returned!
72 hours until the end of Day 2 (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/afootball?iso=20150818T1536&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+Day+2&font=cursive&swk=1)!
Day 2 - "Team Captain, represent!"
Town has 48 hours in which they may freely submit votes, one per person. After that time, votes are locked in place and may no longer be moved! There will be 24 hours for the Team Captain to select any one member of the collective with equal to or more than 3 votes as the Day's lynch. Town may continue to discuss during those 24 hours.
There are 8 votes in play. 3 votes nominate someone for elimination.
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TL;DR
First 48 hours: vote and discuss as normal
Last 24 hours: can't vote, discuss as normal, TC picks one person to lynch
Failure for TC to pick someone or failure for anyone to meet the lynch threshold results in No Lynch occuring
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@Mod: Just to be sure, can votes cast in the first 48 hours be unvoted?
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Ehhhhh. wow.
So this prolonged discussion gimmick is rather ingenious, Ill admit. In order to compensate for D1 lack of lynch, you made someone a mute player and involve players in democracy shenanigans. So that N1 wouldn't stagnate so bad even without a lynch because you now have someone eager to talk and share about their reads and offer fresh insights. Its basically a bettered version of last games shenanigans, except crazy role interaction is now contained to the bare minimum, I like this.
I suppose I will wait for CF7 to post and then wall tomorrow, I am home late and am terribly tired, night people.
Also, please don't place any votes
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@Mod: Just to be sure, can votes cast in the first 48 hours be unvoted?
Absolutely!
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Okay, that's good.
I guess I'll wait until DNA clarifies why he doesn't want anyone voting (hopefully it's the same concern as mine about sticky votes) before casting mine, but since votes aren't sticky I'm not sure what else the reason might be.
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Weekend can't post just like last game Rei.
I'm aware i'm out on a limb Re: Kilg but attacking someone's arguments isn't "Toxic" I'm theatrical and overblown sure but Toxic is a very damaging thing to accuse someone of when they are playing the game.
It's also not an Ad Hom so stop just throwing around Mafia terms incorrectly please.
I realized you weren't lying just thought the post was about the other part of the post so let's chalk that up to a misunderstanding?@Hilg
Still waiting on Celery to answer my question?
Re: Dan seems crazy but could Kilg explain why it paints a target on dan's back?
I've see more Night Talk roles playing here in two games then my whole Mafia Career :V
Waiting for C70 post, I also don't like that post, heck I don't like it more then I Hilg since I'm just trying to dig into if Hilg is Tunneling Town or not and I'm surprised to see so many people fall into a false dichotomy that we couldn't be on the same team and questioning someone's attacks isn't defending either.
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About my earlier picks.
I think that there's one scum in Kilga/Rei/Shalako, and i think it's the latter. Shalako tries to hard to appear town and while i can appreciate the effort it seems really... hollow to me. Maybe it's his posting style or what not, but it looks like posting a lot and appearing town, while at the same time trying to obscure his motives. But maybe i am wrong here. But i'll probably need to reread the whole exchange between them to actually reach my more or less final conclusion.
Selery/Raitaki/Nagisa. Out of the 3 both Selery and Nagisa looks town to me and their posting looks town too and it has some analysis. Raitaki on other hand is too cautious and while he posted quite a bit of words i can't see much content in those words. Argument of not voting for Kilga, because of players having too much bias is BS tbh. And i felt like it was really pro-scum. Like let's not vote for a player who other players will follow, because that's bad. Because town will have easier time lynching scummy players.
That said i am willing to vote for Raitaki.
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Mmmmmmmmmrrrrrrrr
##Fakevote: CF7
Confession time: I've been having second thoughts about Shalako since last night. Getting a chance to step back and look at what was going on while the game was relatively quiet made me realize how much of our argument could be explained by polar opposite playstyles (it seems Shalako takes both player meta and D1 play just as seriously as I don't take either of them), differences in opinion on various word choices, and generally incresing frustration on both sides (Shalako's anger reads as genuine, and my last couple of days at work have been massively stressful and haven't helped me at all in keeping my temper in check). There are still some word choice things that I raise an eyebrow at, even when taking the aforementioned differences in word choice opinion into consideration, but I'm not as gung-ho about this anymore.
(The "Kill Me" Target thing is in reference to the fact that nighttalk was enabled by a role, which carried the obvious implication that, assuming the person with the role was town, scum could simply shut night talk off if they killed the person with the role. If it was really an N1-only thing, though, then I guess it doesn't matter that much.)
CF7's post fails to impress.
* The Shalako suspicion is very "maybe, maybe not, I don't really know" in its explanation.
* No mention is made of Dan despite Dan previously being a total enigma. One could argue that Dan wasn't discussed because he wasn't part of either three-player grouping, but the obvious question then is why he wasn't in the Serela/Patorikku/Raitaki one, since no explanation was ever provided for that either.
* I don't like talking about townreads, but I generally don't buy Raitaki as a scum candidate right now. I thought the logic behind voting DNA over me was rather silly but not ill-intended, which is why I never commented on it even though my captain candidacy was directly affected by it. Beyond that, I've been generally pleased with his posts and have been able to follow his thoughts fairly well. (I admit it helps that he came to the same conclusion about that CF7's Post #99 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205938.html#msg1205938) that I did.)
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2 days and 13 hours until the end of Day 2 (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/afootball?iso=20150818T1536&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+Day+2&font=cursive&swk=1)!
Day 2 - "Team Captain, represent!"
Town has 48 hours in which they may freely submit votes, one per person. After that time, votes are locked in place and may no longer be moved! There will be 24 hours for the Team Captain to select any one member of the collective with equal to or more than 3 votes as the Day's lynch. Town may continue to discuss during those 24 hours.
No votes were cast! (I almost counted Kilga's vote but I assume the Fake part means he doesn't actually want to cast a vote. :()
There are 8 votes in play. 3 votes nominate someone for elimination.
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Yeah, I just misread and assumed votes can't be moved.
Post incoming when I am home
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##Vote: CF7
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##Vote: CF7
Yeah, that last post from CF7 wasn't really satisfying to me. For starters, both of his cases run on the idea that what both Shalako and Raitaki posted throughout the game lacks depth, and while I can understand that read on Raitaki to an extent, I really don't buy Shalako would keep a heated argument like that going and have it be "hollow." In all fairness, your posts seemed more hollow throughout D1 to me, and this post isn't helping that case. Especially since most of us are scumreading or at least suspicious of Shalako right now, it makes it the easy vote. Not only that, but you've still failed to mention why you don't even consider Dan as a possible scum candidate.
In any case, Dan, assuming you can talk now, since nightalk isn't gonna be a thing anymore, we need some more input beyond the few lines you've offered. Your post in response to Rei-chan's inquiries gives the implication you haven't really followed the game thus far, and I'm hoping that's not actually the case. Whatever else you can come up with will be able to help out town. Your opinion on CF7's posts thus far would be a good start.
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Well, that's how it is. Even if the reasoning in my posts failed to impress you all, i'll stick to it.
##Vote Raitaki.
Well, his PR on top of night talk enabler does not make him automatically a confirmed town, but i don't think it makes sense as scum.
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Well, his PR on top of...
I obviously meant Dan here.
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Well, it's always possible he's scum that just lied about the PR because they had a nighttalk enabling thing. But, I'm not pushing for a Dan lynch today. So long as he starts contributing with things we can help get reads off I hopefully won't have to worry too much about lynching him later either >>
I actually do think CF7's latest post is a decent improvement and does a better job explaining his reads, but even so he's still the worst of the bunch. However, Raitaki's nightpost doesn't really change my opinion of him that he's more likely to be scum than the rest of the cast, so especially with the Captain thing meaning we should be putting 2 people up to 3 votes today, I might actually vote there with CF7! (who'da thunk it) Apart from that Kilga still looks more or less good, and Dan is... TBA :T
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well we can move votes so
##Vote Raitaki
If CF7 looks to not be hitting 3 votes by the vote lock, though, for whatever reason, I'm definitely switching over there.
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Hello, Rei Ryugazaki here, thank you for your faith in me etcetc, work is piling up so I will regrettably have to drop most of the roleplay and get to the meat of stuff.
I don't like how CF7 doesn't attempt to shed the lurkish read list even though its been day 2, but I am kind of divisive over if that's reflective of scum or even makes him a good lynch target because far as I recall CF7 had a long history of playing apathetically as town. I think his response is rather townish given he actually had the intent to answer others. But since the last stretch when I had time to actually play continuously was like a year ago, that meta couldve been outdated. Regardless, I still think there could be other, better lynch targets. Possibly either Dan or Serela.
Dan has always been a kinda difficult read for most of us because he takes comfort in his usual super lurky, minimal words playstyle so we pretty have to case him by his meta and intent. And running on that, I find it indicative that hes not even trying to post during N2 to be rather scummy. Usual town dan should be moderately invested in the game, but will at least try to address the biggest wagons/debates happening. I point attention to how last game town!dan at least tried to immediately address the DNA/Shalako spat and gave a list of general reads, and was making rather sensible, if brief, points during his presence. I don't like how this game Dan just go 'lol not interested in elections' and wasn't even trying to make use of the nighttalk to its fullest. So I think I would rather lynch Dan over CF7.
Not sure why Shalako is getting a free pass now? Dropping the fervent attack is nice but I find it kind of abrupt how quickly he decided to drop everything on the Kilga case and is kinda scummy. I kind of wished that he would actually summarize his attack on why he attacked Kilg in a sane manner, instead of just dropping it and barely mentioning it again entirely. I also kind of don't recall him having done anything other than attacking Kilg, so once he's dropped that I find him having a very overall weak presence, and honestly, the spat couldve went either way. So I find him to be rather scummy. At least I wouldn't mind seeing him lynched.
Raitaki being the next wagon is terrible. imo his train of thought is clear and his priorities straight. While they can be biased, its at worse null and Id hardly base them as scum oreinted, not especially at such an early portion of the game. CF7 case on Raitaki doesn't even address his concerns but is PoE, which is way too early for this stage of the game.
Talking about Raitaki wagon, the next person on that is Serela, I actually think Serela wouldn't be a bad lynch, and is possibly the lynch I want most aside from Dan. His opinions are rather shaky and inconsistent, and his comments on the Kilg v Shalako was basically him at war with himself in the same post, (Shalakos actions is towny....but he did the same thing as scum last game! Kilg is probably town, but is probably too town to be town, maybe!), overall, I think I just find his intent seems to be trying to justify both of them as future potential lynch targets, and it just gives me a very strong scum gutread.
##Vote Serela
I suppose if given the choice, I currently will choose something like Serela>Dan>CF7, which are based off a combination of my priorities (scumhunting and punishing degenerate play). CF7 has bad logic, but bad logic is not conclusive enough evidence I will base a lynch off with at this stage of the game. Dan doesn't even have remotely enough material for content analysis, so its a policy lynch. Reason for Serela stated already.
I don't have problems with Nagisa and Kilga, I think their logic unfolded well and are both now about as town as Raitaki, whom I already have nothing to nitpick with
Right, back to work
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Blargh sorry stuff been happening this week.
@Recent CF7: "Shalako's effort seems hollow" is a statement so vague it might as well be a gut read. And not sure how Shalako has been "obscuring his motives" when he had been gunning for Kilga for like 70% of the game up until now. Given CF7 said that I raised a valid point after I argued against voting Kilga for TC, his paraphrasing my same argument in a scummy light is pretty shady. He also still hadn't explained why Dan isn't in his second group of possible scum, and still kept Dan out of it for some reason, even after both Kilga and Nagisa called him out on it. Even taking into account Rei's "CF7 has bad logic but that doesn't necessarily mean scum", CF7's arguments are such a long stretch that I can't really see them as anything other than an attempt to stick to the bogus scum grouping he started in D1.
##Vote: CF7
Also, Dan's posts up until now:
+ Wordlessly voting Serela/DNA
+ Claiming responsibility for night talk
+ Townreading Serela based on basically the second thing she ever posted aside from confirming, and that alone
+ Waffle
Yeah this would be the second slot that I'd like to get to 3 votes.
@Rei: I'm pretty sure Serela does the "okaaaay at first glance this person's alignment seems to be X because of this buuuuuut <self-counterargument>" thing at least once every game, so basically your entire reason for voting her right now is null for me personally.
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overall, I think I just find his intent seems to be trying to justify both of them as future potential lynch targets, and it just gives me a very strong scum gutread.
If you read my post I very clearly say I think Shalako is very town? >_> It's like you're cherrypicking my first 5 words about Shalako and ignoring the conclusion met in the rest.
Also yes as Raitaki said I do that thing basically every single game. It's important to account for all parts of play even if they imply conclusions they don't further your case! That's because you're trying to be accurate, not just get some schmuck lynched.
I still don't find Raitaki to be a townread but I -am- starting to feel like I might rather just have CF7 as the only option more than I'd want to add Raitaki to the list. (Obv. it could still end up someone else but that's true regardless of whether I'm voting said someone else or not)
##Unvote
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Friendly mod note: Fixed that quote tag for you, Serela. You're welcome.
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1 day and 15 hours until the end of Day 2 (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/afootball?iso=20150818T1536&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+Day+2&font=cursive&swk=1)!
That's 15 hours to be voting, folks!
Day 2 - "Team Captain, represent!"
Town has 48 hours in which they may freely submit votes, one per person. After that time, votes are locked in place and may no longer be moved! There will be 24 hours for the Team Captain to select any one member of the collective with equal to or more than 3 votes as the Day's lynch. Town may continue to discuss during those 24 hours.
CF7 (3): Kilgamayan, Nagisa Hazuki, Raitaki
Raitaki (1): CF7, Serela
Serela (1): Rei Ryugazaki
Not voting scum (3): Serela, ActionDan, Shalako
Up for elimination: CF7
There are 8 votes in play. 3 votes nominate someone for elimination.
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>:| Empty unvotes make me an angry Taoist. Do you really have no one else you think is scummy?
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Keep in mind that with the whole team captain thing, putting more votes on a person than the minimum needed to make them one of the lynch options for the TC is pretty unnecessary. I think Serela thinks CF7 is the best lynch by far, so she's not voting anyone else so that CF7 becomes the only person Rei can lynch.
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But it'd still be good to make sure no one can unvote CF7 and make him a non-option before deadline for whatever reason. Highly unlikely, but, "well I changed my mind and this other person is at 2 votes and I want them lynched" or something, whatever.
##Vote CF7
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oh right shalako wanted me to answer a question! You have a lot of posts though. :C I probably missed your question in the first place because eventually I started skimming the Kilga smashing walls. What is it again?
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Raitaki: I suppose you're right. I tend to have a hard time wrapping my head around non-conventional voting mechanics. Empty unvoting will never not bother me, though.
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Oh. So i am a designated mis-lynch of the day. Niiiiice. And due to the mechanics of the day i can't even self-hammer out of spite. Doubly Niiiiice. /sarcasm
Here's some food for thought for you.
My wagon happened to be based on pretty much what you can call a "bad reasoning".
While Nagisa admits that half the players suspect Shalako, noone placed a vote on him and that it could be an easy vote from me.
Serela's votes during this day is Raitaki, then unvote, then me.
Dan is still pretty much non-existent as he was during D1.
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Just 53 minutes until you can no longer vote (nor unvote).
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...hrm. Yeah, I can see that scum!Cf7 would probably want to try to push an actual realistic counterwagon like Shalako. It doesn't make him town, but, if he's scum there's surprisingly little resistance to the lynch, considering his counterwagon would be... let's be fair, me and him are like the only people with much interest in a Raitaki lynch? And 6v2 the scum proooobably don't want to just throw away their scumbuddy. Although now I'm getting into wifom territory.
Dan's continuing to be nonexistant so I'd be fine with flashwagoning him up to where he's a lynch OPTION (in -addition- to cf7, not instead of.). However I'm not going to unvote cf7 until Dan's actually at two votes; I'm not going to risk forcing ourselves into a Dan lynch or no-lynch whilst trying to drum up a second choice for the captain to consider.
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Pseudo-present. Can't write anything lengthy while at work, but I can at least move my vote around as needed if it would help secure an additional lynch option (assuming that additional option is someone I could get behind lynching). Would still rather CF7 be lynched but getting an extra 24 hours of meaningful arguing between two players trying to avoid a lynch is certainly valuable.
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Well, as me and Kilga are both on CF7, it won't do any good if we both swap votes off. CF7 kinda would need to switch to said other wagon too, although assuming he isn't gone I doubt he'd object to that.
We've got literally 10 minutes, though.
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No more voting. Only CF7 can be lynched (or no lynch).
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Welp :V
I'm not sure just how much useful discussion can be had when the lynch is already decided it's basically a 24 hour twilight before a flip at this point. However, people like Dan still don't exist, so plz post mister. At this rate we'll need to policy lynch you tomorrow on account of not playing. :T
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And I am just back from work. Its kind of disappointing how now we likely have 24 hours to be wasted. I will definitely not choose no lynch over flip though.
@Mod: does the day end the moment TC declares his decision? Or does it end at the 24 hour limit regardless of it.
I am also kind of disappointed at how low the activity is. Possibly a side effect of there not being a flip to generate info and that stagnation is pretty much inevitable since Dan isn't really a player who likes to take a proactive role and drive the game.
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I also wish I couldve had time to explain that my town gutread on cf7 was possibly also a side effect of filler mafia, with how he was pretty much a necessary lynch due to dwindling player interactions and d1 no lynch yet he still failed to muster up the effort to defend himself. The way I see it is that CF7 is just not a very contributive player regardless of alignment.
I don't really buy the Serela explanation for his behavior, Serela is just too characteristically random that meta arguments are pretty much useless because he can switch from capable townie to village idiot on a whim. But Serela does have his priorities, and thats play optimization. I find that throughout our games despite Serela changing the wrapper for his playstyle every game his intent is usually straightforward; abuse powerful roles, rolespec when alot of roles crop up, and generally trying to be a leading player and contributing his best as town. I don't like how he forfeits the role of TC because he thinks he's 'inadequate', which is giving up way too quickly than the Serela I know. Also, the justifying lynching everyone waffling behavior usually only crops up at lategame for town!serela, I don't think I recall many occasions which Serela does waffling this early on. And based on our game history and general deduction, I seriously want his lynch more than anything.
Dan, please play the game.
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I don't like how he forfeits the role of TC because he thinks he's 'inadequate', which is giving up way too quickly than the Serela I know.
I know on d1 when there hasn't been any time for people to get townreads on me, people are not going to want to thrust a position of possible power at Serela. >_> And it probably was not a super awesome position so I didn't really care either. I also didn't really care about "campaigning" to try to get it, which seemed like a goofy facade.
Justifying lynching everyone? I only have 3 people in my lynch list. And maybe Kilga I guess? But not really.
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like, I think it's goofy how immediate people are like "What? Serela why aren't you voting for yourself?!" what, too much effort I want to be lazy, it's not like throwing a vote on myself is going to go anywhere in RVS and I was lazy and unmotivated about D1's info vacuum as usual
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Well. This sucks. Or rather blows.
And it might be kinda pointless at this stage, since Rei would likely lynch me, instead of no-lynching me, but i am delicious, because i am vanilla flavored.
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vanilla extract smells so heavenly
but then you taste it
oh god
oh god no
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Would like to note Shalako fell through the face of the planet.
Also, if mod is okay with it I want to ##Prelynch CF7, since I may not be present for deadline due to IRL reasons.
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Like, please don't immediately end the day, but I want to make it clear I will hammer CF7 in case I cant make it for deadline
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@Mod: does the day end the moment TC declares his decision? Or does it end at the 24 hour limit regardless of it.
Yes.
I mean, the first.
But because I am a ~SUPER COOL DUDE~, I'll wait 19 hours to the end of Day 2 (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/afootball?iso=20150818T1536&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+Day+2&font=cursive&swk=1) or until otherwise notified to resolve the lynch, as requested.
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CF7: Any final thoughts? Granted, not too many people have posted since your last meaningful post, but still, if you have anything else to offer, now's the time.
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CF7: Any final thoughts? Granted, not too many people have posted since your last meaningful post, but still, if you have anything else to offer, now's the time.
Aside from that i somehow need to step up my game, which involves me overcoming my low motivation to do practically anything, do not have much to add, tbh. Good luck, i guess.
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:l Well, uh.
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I'm here. had to work on truck
Consider my vote for CF7 and nothing he's posted since (Scum/Town reads) has changed that like I'm hallow and Raitaki posts a lot (??) he doesn't post content?
I agree with Hilgs post re:slapfight I go big and overblown D1 to generate as much stuff as possible to get past RVS etc and I know it's grating to some people and I ramrod past possible mistranslatons too.
Did I already explain I figured out where the possible crossed lines were? I'm sure I did.
Oh that makes Celery asking for my questions that i'll have to find and
Sel why vote Raitaki why leaving a way open to go back onto Cf7?
I don't understand why Raitaki would get more votes then myself when I've be been reaching hard to try and get reactions out of Kilg?
Like what's the beef with Raitaki?
really rushed rambling post sorry gotta put some wheels back on now
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Sel why vote Raitaki why leaving a way open to go back onto Cf7?
I don't understand why Raitaki would get more votes then myself when I've be been reaching hard to try and get reactions out of Kilg?
CF7 was already going to have the necessary votes to be a lynch candidate for today, with the special Team Captain lynch mechanic. I wanted Raitaki to be the possible second up, partially for the purpose of this last 24 hours not being even more slow, as it is, because the lynch is already decided and there are no other options.
Raitaki posted again and it made me reconsider that because the content didn't look terribly scum motivated, and I decided I didn't want him possibly lynched over CF7 today after all, so I unvoted. And I think you're pretty town, so.
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Totally, but why fence sit on what you think of me randomly instead of answering it?
I don't care what people think of me and it's not what I asked you.
Here's the question I was thinking of.
Why are you answering the fluff question directed at him?
Why does DNA posting a large Post indicate that he's not suitable for Captain?
Why is DNA posting a Wall alignment related?
If CF7 didn't mean to "purge" DNA why say kill it with water?
For extra special points here's questions you didn't answer BEFORE the kilg walls.
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The first question is very context heavy and I don't know how to answer it anymore. :S
I answered the first of your list in the past; I said it's because the question applied fairly well to me as well. The others are mostly silly and I wasn't even sure why you were asking them, so I decided to be lazy, because I am sometimes a terrible person :D #2 and #3 are "It's not", and the fourth question was even weirder because you assumably meant to say Kilga, and the answer to that is "rvs shenanigans".
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Alright, Alright, Alright.
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Friendly notification that day end (aka stop posting time I presume) is in about 20 minutes.
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I became unexpectedly busy, but as a moderator, I shall trudge on! For Justice!
Speaking of justice, Rei Ryugazaki made the decision to follow along with the crowd, expelling CF7 from the group. CF7, not one to take things lying down, took off his mask and sneered at the group! He was Matsuoka Rin, swimmer for another school! As the Scum Delayer, he had the ability to, once per night phase, submit ##Aversio! to the mod. Doing so would delay all night actions to the start of the next Night Phase, including the Scum Night Kill!
... actually, I'm joking. He was Haruka Nanase, Town Vanilla. With Haruka eliminated, the game now enters Night Phase!
THERE IS NO NIGHT TALK!
24 hours to the end of Night Phase (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/christmas?iso=20150819T20&p0=%3A&font=cursive&csz=1)
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Eternally late Moderator. One starts to wonder what a Co-Mod is for!
Either way, the group awakes to find that, during the night, vicious bullying took place! Aiichiro Nitori got bullied away, leaving in a huff of tears. Poor guy! All he wanted was to unite everyone. He wanted everyone to play nice, and had the ability to declare it was ##TIMETOJAM, enabling Jam Time for bonuses and extras!
Oh, wait, I scrapped that role. Nevermind! He was Vanilla Town and has been utterly eliminated by the scum.
It is now Day 3! Due to the Team Captain's rousing success in following the will of the people, your glorious mod bestows upon you TWO ADDITIONAL VOTES PER PERSON! This means that there are 18 votes in play, and 10 are required to get a lynch going.
Day 3 - "Freedom to Vote!"
Each living player has 3 votes, which they may distribute by ##Vote1, ##Vote2, ##Vote3 or ##Vote to allocate all votes. Lynch threshold is tripled. Team Captain is ousted of their position as such, so outside of tripled votes normal mechanics apply!
Friendly reminder that lynching incorrectly can result in the game ending, and Scum winning.
As usual, 3 days to make a decision (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/election?iso=20150822T2045&p0=%3A&msg=Day+3+Countdown&font=cursive&csz=1&swk=1)!
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As a result of ActionDan failing to comply with Moderator request, I have decided to eliminate him from the game! ActionDan was Vanilla Town.
That does mean 15 votes remain in play, and 8 are needed to reach a lynch.
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Alright, back to the old theory.
I'm still fairly certain that at least one of either Shalako and Kilg is scum. Leaning on Shalako still, but that's because there wasn't a lot to run off of from D2 to really change opinion. I just want to hear scum candidates from both of you, or at least who you're most suspicious of at the moment.
Still trust Rei-chan. He's pretty clearly intent on solving things, and I don't have any issues with his content as of yet.
At this point, I think I want some info from Serela, first and foremost. Why did you feel it was better to have simply CF7 as a lynch choice for Rei, as opposed to chasing down another possible scum candidate? I understand unvoting Raitaki in your 168 post, but wouldn't it be more productive for town to at least question other possible scum candidates? Or did you feel opening up the choices for possible lynch candidates would be detrimental and just extend the deadline beyond what was necessary?
Looking a bit further down D2, why bother chasing down the policy vote of Dan?
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Kneejerk reaction says it's two of the three people that aren't DNA. I need to sit down and look through the thread with each possible scumpair in mind and see if anything stands out as more likely to come from a scumpair, but that'll have to happen later tonight. (Good thing there aren't too many posts!)
In the meantime, since this is LYLO, a massclaim would probably be prudent.
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In the meantime, since this is LYLO, a massclaim would probably be prudent.
I don't feel that'll help here. Roles in this setup are meant to be null in regards to alignment, primarily to avoid roleshens. What do you think we'll be able to accomplish from a massclaim?
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In the meantime, since this is LYLO, a massclaim would probably be prudent.
I'm a Useless Know-It All
Can't ask about someones Role or Alignment but I can ask if X role is in the game.
D1 ain't much to go on and I hate these kinda roles
Role Questions
1. There is a Godfather or Role that has beneficial abilities when it's preforming a kill.
There is no role that has beneficial abilities when it's performing the kill. You may quote this entire PM.
So I guess this means No StrongMan/Godfather
D2 the only thing I could have asked about was Dan but I didn't bother since Night Talk=Obv Town.
Interesting that Action Dan flipped VTown though? I guess I should have checked on him?? Or someone else used the Night Talk and Dan claimed responsibility?
Can ask during Day one question
Wondering why Kilg said a Mass Claim would be prudent in LoL but didn't claim?
@Cutby1 I always claim in LoL, come on try and lie about your role Scum
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okay r00d >:|
I still don't think massclaim will get us very far, but if it at least gets some conversation going - albeit roleshens; I've already stated why that won't help here - I can hardly object to that. I'm a one-shot Partymaker, which gives me the ability to nullify any special day effects that come up naturally throughout the day in the first 24 hours. Doesn't interfere with player-instilled events, just what the mod puts up at the beginning of the day.
I don't intend on using it today, at least not right now. Maybe if we can get an overall consent that it makes sense to dissolve the triple-vote, but I don't have any issue with it. Didn't use it yesterday because I trusted so long as we picked out scum in our votes, Rei-chan would pick them out.
In any case, Shalako, is there any reason beyond LYLO that's convincing you that massclaiming would help here?
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Actually, let's have that question apply to everyone: whether or not you're gonna go along with the massclaim, do you feel it's going to help out town to do so, and how come? This runs on the assumption that roles are null when it comes to determining alignment.
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I still don't think massclaim will get us very far, but if it at least gets some conversation going - albeit roleshens; I've already stated why that won't help here - I can hardly object to that. I'm a one-shot Partymaker, which gives me the ability to nullify any special day effects that come up naturally throughout the day in the first 24 hours. Doesn't interfere with player-instilled events, just what the mod puts up at the beginning of the day.
More like PartyPooper amiright.
In any case, Shalako, is there any reason beyond LYLO that's convincing you that massclaiming would help here?
You mean why would the girl who can check if people lie about their roles be for a Massclam?
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As a result of ActionDan failing to comply with Moderator request, I have decided to eliminate him from the game! ActionDan was Vanilla Town.
3. Rules do not inhibit you from employing specific strategies, which is to mean that you do not need to meet any posting requirements. There are no requirements to post length, post content or post frequency. There is no consequence for refusing to post for an entire Day Phase or, in fact, the entire game.
:wat:
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ActionDan's modkill has nothing to do with his posting frequency.
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Okie Dokie
(http://www.entravity.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/free-anime-matsuoka-rin-fabulous.jpg)
Now where we were.
The guy who is anti-massclaim because he knows Roles are Null but did it anyways I think?
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Considering ActionDan lied about having a post restriction to excuse his nonexistence and fakeclaimed being the source of the night talk, but was vanilla town, I think he's a subject we can leave until postgame (or maybe never)
At this point, I think I want some info from Serela, first and foremost. Why did you feel it was better to have simply CF7 as a lynch choice for Rei, as opposed to chasing down another possible scum candidate? I understand unvoting Raitaki in your 168 post, but wouldn't it be more productive for town to at least question other possible scum candidates? Or did you feel opening up the choices for possible lynch candidates would be detrimental and just extend the deadline beyond what was necessary?
My other possible scum were Raitaki and maybe Kilga. Kilga was awkward to read due to shenanigans but his d2 posts seemed good to me, and Raitaki's already been over and oops he's dead now so that ship has sailed >.> Thanks scum for killing my scum suspects though :D (not sarcastic, that's legitimately a cool thing to happen). So then I was kinda like, welp. I'd forgotten about Dan entirely until he was brought up again, because Dan did not exist, and this made him easy to forget about >_> As soon as I recalled him, and saw he still didn't exist, there's your answer to the second part of the question; I -did- want another scum candidate as possible lynchings as said d2 when I tried to talk people into voting onto Dan, because the day would flow better and more usefully after the 24h to deadline mark if there were options, but it was too late and no one was around (or motivated) to do so apart from people who were needed to keep CF7 on the table.
...w-wait but if Raitaki and Dan are both dead and town then who is the scum
crap. :C I'm going to have to reread the game aren't I
Also I am Beloved! Since it's lylo, I'm not beloved anymore, though. RIP. And before anyone asks, Bard told me on day start yesterday that yes, I would have needed 4 votes to be a lynch candidate instead of 3. And for the other question, even if it might not have terribly good outlooks on usefulness it's still a good thing in general to massclaim at lylo. Unless maybe it was a really early lylo and you still have 3 scum left or something? As everything in mafia, situational, but overall it's usually good
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Patorikku: The point of a massclaim isn't to point at specific roles and go "okay that role is definitely town/scum", it's to get as much information on the table as possible. People's approaches to their claimed role can be analyzed for how realistically their play would be given their role, or perhaps a fakeclaim can be busted by other pre-existing information. (I fucked up a fakeclaim this way in another Bard game of years ago, for example.) In addition, people are locked into their claims once they're made, so assuming a scum lynch, abnormal behavior going into the next night/day will be all the more suspicious.
Shalako: I'm used to LYLO massclaims being done in an order generally accepted by the remaining players. Typically, we want the most suspicious players to claim first, because it makes them less likely to fakeclaim (since they could get counterclaimed by someone going after them). I didn't expect the claims to start coming immediately. :v
Anyway, I'm a Moodswinger. I have a one-shot use of an ability that completely stops the NK in exchange for turning the following day into a popularity contest (instead of a lynch). We all vote on who we don't want to see lynched, and the winner(s) is/are immune to votes on the following day. Since we don't actually gain a game tempo from it, and the popularity mechanic seemed fairly pointless (if we don't want someone to be lynched, we can just...not vote for them). I decided to save it for tonight in the (unlikely but possible) event of a scum lynch rush today; with 5 living players going into tonight, the game wouldn't actually end if the NK didn't go through, and someone else might be able to do something about the situation after I stopped the NK. Looks like that plan is scrapped, though.
Ended up at my folks' place for dinner tonight so I haven't had the chance to sit down an analyze anything yet, sorry.
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More like PartyPooper amiright.
r00d
Anyway, I don't feel pseudo-RP fluff this late in the game is helping anyone here. I made my point that I felt it'd help by putting info down on the table, so if you feel my change of position on the issue is too flippant, then that's fine by me. I'd rather keep moving forward toward figuring out who scum is, so if you have a differing opinion on why one would massclaim, then please enlighten us.
Anyway, I like Kilg's answer to my query. There's no real intent to misdirect, from what I can see, and there's no immediate logical error. I dunno if I feel as good about Serela's answers, though. I'll analyze in more detail when I get back home and don't have to post by mobile.
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I don't think I am comfortable with the game.
There are too many commited players and too little time for communication. The problen here is that this commitment cannot be identified with a simple litmus test of scumtells. What we need to actually sort out if there's any contrary in intent, is time for people to talk. I don't have problems with Dan being removed as the lynch wouldve likely went that way depending on the discussions that couldve been. But I am just feel that its very demanding and counterproductive to punish town by stripping away their time alongside because we aren't responsible for whatever atrocities Dan commited behind the scenes.
I don't know who to lynch, basically. Honestly,I can say if I had to choose who I would lynch between Shalako or Kilga, since its rather clear to me one of them is scum, I will bank it on Shalako because of his toxicity and sudden drop in activity. Still, my impressive of Serela still hasn't improved very much and I am sick of giving him a free pass at this point.
Of course, I can also entertain the idea Nagisa is scum, based on how apparently town stuff at early isn't that telling anymore, because we dont have time to confirm those alleged claims of townreads and whatnot. But due to a lack of meta, I'm being the next most townest player aside from taki and posting so logically my paranoia ultimately falls back to 'too town for town', so I dont want to go down that line.
For me, its either Serela or Shalako for the day.
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For some reason my post got completely screwed up, edit below
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I don't think I am comfortable with the game.
There are too many commited players and too little time for communication. The problem here is that this commitment cannot be identified with a simple litmus test of scumtells. What we need to actually sort out if there's any contrary in intent, is time for people to talk. I don't have problems with Dan being removed as the lynch wouldve likely went that way depending on the discussions that couldve been. But I just feel that its very demanding and counterproductive to punish town by stripping away their time to discuss since we aren't responsible for whatever atrocities Dan commited behind the scenes.
I don't know who to lynch, basically. Honestly, I would lynch between Shalako or Kilga, since its rather clear to me one of them is scum, I will bank it on Shalako because of his toxicity and sudden drop in activity. Still, my impression of Serela still hasn't improved very much and I am sick of giving him a free pass at this point.
Of course, I can also entertain the idea Nagisa is scum, based on how apparently towntells at early can be argued as no longer telling anymore, because we dont have time to confirm those alleged claims of townreads and whatnot. But due to a lack of meta, him being the next most townest player aside from taki and posting so logically my paranoia ultimately falls back to 'too town for town', so I dont want to go down that line.
For me, its either Serela or Shalako for the day.
Morw when back from work
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Stripping away our time? Today was (most likely?) lylo even if Dan hadn't been modkilled, town's numbers didn't really get any worse tbh, if anything it's good because I totally would have been all over the Dan lynch considering my other scumreads are dead :S I'm mostly only posting to say that because I'm super tired (I managed to readjust my bedtime down to midnight instead of the awfulness of staying up to 1:30am all the time like I was last game), rereading and stuff is for tomorrow
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r00d
It's because you stop the parties!
Anyway, I don't feel pseudo-RP fluff this late in the game is helping anyone here. I made my point that I felt it'd help by putting info down on the table, so if you feel my change of position on the issue is too flippant, then that's fine by me. I'd rather keep moving forward toward figuring out who scum is, so if you have a differing opinion on why one would massclaim, then please enlighten us.
Well I mean.
Who do you think is Scum if you are so pro-moving forward?
If you are so anti-Massclaim
Why would you claim then?
sudden drop in activity.
What part of I post less on Weekends is hard to understand?
Also lol Toxicity
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Stripping away our time? Today was (most likely?) lylo even if Dan hadn't been modkilled, town's numbers didn't really get any worse tbh,
I didn't even consider Dan was lying about being the Night Action Talker, but no one has claimed it.
Was it just...another special thing that happens?
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No, Serela, what I meant by that is time for discussion. The flip is important, yes, but emphasis should be placed on player interactions and whether they look town or scum. Dan getting modkilled sucks because now we lost pages worth of potential discussion material over whoever to lynch, which, even if it ended up also being Dan, wouldve been at least insightful and have generated content. I for one probably wouldve defended against a Dan lynch because he's just a habitual degenerate player and I don't think that's indicative of his alignment
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dear mother of god why am I up I just said I fixed my sleep schedule, this is what happens when I work forever five days in a row
I'm not sure why you talk like a Dan lynch would be a useful thing when it's lylo and he was town :S That'd be like, a game over. Also it'd be kind of mind boggling to defend against a Dan lynch; for one, Dan usually posts -some- as town (granted it's still often a woeful amount), but in all his scum games he basically does not exist, at all, e.g. what happened here where he only posted n1(barely) and dropped off the planet d1 and d2. This looked like a scum!dan game, and past that, if he's not posting at all period then even with his meta there is absolutely no reason to think he's town over scum, and I'd rather lynch that than risk letting him win a scum game with ultralurking. (My viewpoint may be different if I had any notable scumreads, but there aren't, so he had no real competition.)
"We lost pages of potential discussion over who to lynch!" Actually, I think Dan being alive would do the opposite. Even if you defended him, I think there's a good chance he would have dominated the lynch pool; I can't imagine anyone else would be defending him, and the only thing combatting it would be people perhaps having a harder read on Shalako or me. "Emphasis should be placed on interactions and whether they look town or scum!" Talking about a Dan lynch would involve neither of those things, because he did not post and therefore had practically none. With Dan gone, we have -more- productive discussions to be had about who to lynch... because none of the candidates are going to be super easy sells that everyone agrees on for reasons that need no elaboration.
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honestly most of that post hardly matters because it's talking about semantics and a person who is already dead
but I sort of like talking about such things anyway
and hell if I'm rereading and doing critical thinking at 2:41 am dear god okay I'm putting in my contacts to go to bed
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Serela, please enlighten me as to how exactly is town having one mislynch before LyLo better than having another additional day of discussion. And pray also address how the hell Dan not posting directly makes discussions involving other players 'useless', when everyone else are outputting such useful content, and if they contradict themselves, become a very useful scumtell. The modkill of Dan was harmful because it removes the buffer zone for town and forces much higher stakes.
@Kilg curious as to why you didnt use your ability when its a hardconform role whIch is unlikely to be replicated and could generate additional time and info, both of which town desperately needed
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There a reason you've posted several times without claiming?
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1. I am not pressured to claim, withholding my claim opens up possibility for me to cc, despite roles being harder to balance here, there could be a conflict of roles for town and scum
2. I am not a lynch candidate. My claim will not improve the gamestate nor provide information in any insightful context, if anything, Shalako, you are the one who should claim
3. Claims are of inherent low information value due to the nature of this games design
Tldr I stand to lose more than potential gain if I were to claim, so I didn't, also you should claim
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Is this some kinda Joke
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@Kilg curious as to why you didnt use your ability when its a hardconform role whIch is unlikely to be replicated and could generate additional time and info, both of which town desperately needed
The game stagnated enough already with one extra day/night period of no deaths. I didn't really see how doing that to town again would be all that beneficial.
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Honestly if Kilga used a role like that I would have groaned and gone back to sleep for 3 days.
Also Rei did you miss the part where we were in LyLo either way? :S I already mentioned that. Game is 6v2 with no deaths, 4v2 after one lynch/nk set, 2v2 game over after a second.
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I don't think I even agree with the statement 'less discussion is good because game is stagnating'. The only major difference of today to D1 was just less Shalako and Kilg arguing, and D2 was unmemorable in general just because CF7 got tunneled on and people on his wagon didnt really try to look at anyone else. Which is why gamestate is subdued. The decision to elect a TC, then deciding its redundant anyway and only allowing one lynch option was also demotivating for town because time is wasted, especially for me, because it feels like I got betrayed. Majority expectation was in me being able enough to lead the game or at least to be in a state of power. But it felt like my dedication to the game was mocked and its irritating.
By extension, I also don't really get why Serela is the one whining about this here, when its clear he had a hand in forcing me to lynch only CF7 and didn't even give me the option to choose someone else before the 48 hour deadline, I wouldve gladly switched over to Dan or even Shalako if it was possible because it wouldve meant I can actually exercise my privilege as TC and follow my own read. Not without mentioning I also named those as other potential lynch candidates. I don't get instead why he decided to just ignore my case on him entirely instead of just responding to and convince me to follow my other leads.
Basically, everything here feels very hindsight-ish. Also Shalako was practically nonexistent aside from the spat. I don't recall who that is he wants to lynch, I don't recall what other significant cases he made other than very specific and brief questionings he never follow up upon. If Serelas problem is that everything he does do not follow town play optimization, I can't even perform such analysis on Shalako in the first place because there's nothing. These are the two people whom I would want to see lynched.
Side note, theoretically I can pick a bone with Kilg and his playstyle for seemingly trying to dismantle the TC function by forcing one lynch option because I have expressed disinterest in a CF7 lynch. Realistically, I can't though because I am a very methodical player, I see that there are much scummier people who do not have the backing nor justification of a well defined meta (ie Serela and Shalako), I see people who are generally town but also has no well defined meta(Nagisa and Kilg). I thusly don't see the merit in me deciding I should lynch them instead of the aforementioned scummy people.
I also want to hear cases from everyone, and preferably also your views on the TC election. Why did you feel its acceptable to vote me in a position of power then proceeding to tie my hands anyway, and why in specific do you think of the gamestate, I personally don't feel it as stagnating more like scum is trying to discourage players from posting because posts mean more content, more content means new insights, new sights lead to conflict and validation, and validation means commitment and potential contradictions. Also known as scumslips.
Tldr, get active people
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Well I mean.
Who do you think is Scum if you are so pro-moving forward?
If you are so anti-Massclaim
Why would you claim then?
I'd think my push to get information from Serela would make that pretty clear. I've made clear that second scum is between you and Kilg, and while it's entirely possible that both of you could be scum and your D1 argument was played out to deceive town, I'd rather not let Serela slip by with a free pass, especially with the lackluster response to the argument D1. It honestly seems as if there's an intent to avoid unnecessary attention from placing an opinion on the series of events. Beyond Serela, your push on me holds some water, as my switch of stance was a bit sudden, but you've also stayed reserved on placing down a clear and concise judgement on why my sudden change of stance seems improper, and it also seems as if you're avoiding directly answering my queries. Why not tell me why you feel massclaiming will stand to advantage town, rather than just opt out with stating it's typical play in LYLO? Certainly you don't just callously claim whenever asked, and at least consider what town stands to gain from such an act.
And I'm fairly certain that I answered your second question in part when I claimed: I felt it would be good to start up conversation. To continue on that point, I was fairly certain you'd respond with suspicion, so at the very least, I could observe your posts and gather what sort of intention you may have for starting an argument with me, whether it be to find out if I could be scum or to pass the blame and get a lynch on me. Right now, it definitely feels like the latter, as you seem to be putting pressure on me whilst covering yourself up and avoiding my questions with fluff and half-baked responses and queries.
Cut by 1.
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By extension, I also don't really get why Serela is the one whining about this here, when its clear he had a hand in forcing me to lynch only CF7 and didn't even give me the option to choose someone else before the 48 hour deadline, I wouldve gladly switched over to Dan or even Shalako if it was possible because it wouldve meant I can actually exercise my privilege as TC and follow my own read. Not without mentioning I also named those as other potential lynch candidates. I don't get instead why he decided to just ignore my case on him entirely instead of just responding to and convince me to follow my other leads.
what
what
what
I don't even know where to respond because everything you just said is the opposite of what happened and it makes me sad and confused :c
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Currently at work, that scumpairing investigation will unfortunately have to wait until this evening.
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>I would have gladly switched over to Dan but Serela wouldn't let me
uhm
first where was I stopping you
second I tried to get a Dan lynch going as soon as someone brought him up and I remembered he existed, unfortunately that was only an hourish before soft-deadline but saying I was trying to take away your options seems like a really weird conclusion from what happened
>I don't get where he instead decided to ignore my case on him entirely
what
but I responded to your case
you responded to my response
this was a thing that happened I don't get it
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I'm also not whining about anything I just think your logic via the Dan stuff is untrue, partially because I'm pretty sure Dan would have been lynched today and thus we'd have lost, and partially because I don't know how consolidating onto a nonexistant player slot for a lynch constitutes a good discussion that somehow we can't beat the quality of with the lurker gone.
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I also want to hear cases from everyone, and preferably also your views on the TC election. Why did you feel its acceptable to vote me in a position of power then proceeding to tie my hands anyway, and why in specific do you think of the gamestate, I personally don't feel it as stagnating more like scum is trying to discourage players from posting because posts mean more content, more content means new insights, new sights lead to conflict and validation, and validation means commitment and potential contradictions. Also known as scumslips.
Tldr, get active people
At the time, I was fairly certain CF7 was scum due to the lackluster play that never really seemed to show any commitment to the actual state of the game. I fell into this trap last game of just full-tilt attacking one player without properly considering other possible scum candidates that could slip by untouched, and it's possible with my effort on Shalako that I'm actually falling into that now, so I'm going to reread Serela and Kilg's posts so I don't just give them a free pass and possibly cost the game for town. That full-tilt attack is also why I ended up disappearing during the latter half of D2, as well, since I was well assured that CF7 was getting lynched. I just got overconfident in my judgement.
In hindsight, though, I guess yesterday would've been a good time to use my ability just to dissolve that nonsense...
My point in the second paragraph about starting conversation in my last post comes up in response to your second query. I'm in full agreement that it'd help town to have some actual conversation going right about now. I don't feel I can elaborate on the point any better than you did, though.
Cut by 4
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For the record, I've done some rereading, but everyone is town and oh my god why did all my scumreads have to die, even if they were town at least I've have been able to have useful opinions. ;__________; I may need to reconsider the reasons I cleared Shalako as town because the game is modconfirmed to not be 8 townies.
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Basically, everything here feels very hindsight-ish. Also Shalako was practically nonexistent aside from the spat. I don't recall who that is he wants to lynch, I don't recall what other significant cases he made other than very specific and brief questionings he never follow up uponrelas problem is that everything he does do not follow town play optimization, I can't even perform such analysis on Shalako in the first place because there's nothing.
I'd feel bad about this but Rei is literally not reading the game in LoL.
Does Rei normally do this? I'd think he'd care more about peoples posts going into LoL then at the start of the game?
How could he have missed my claim? How could he have missed me telling Naigisa my role after I claimed?
No wonder he doesn't remember anything i've done, he's not bothering to read the game and appears to be more interested in slandering people for some strange reason.
I'd think my push to get information from Serela would make that pretty clear.
Oh really.
I think Sereal is Town since the night kill had him as his biggest Town read and I don't see what Scum Sereal has to gain from killing Raitiki. I think he was killed to set up a mislynch on Sreals. (Possibly)
I mean, Celery HAS spent the whole game with Town as his Scumreads and can't do any Scumhunting in LoL because everybody is town :/
but you've also stayed reserved on placing down a clear and concise judgement on why my sudden change of stance seems improper,
The guy who is anti-massclaim because he knows Roles are Null but did it anyways I think?
Do you mean I didn't explain Why saying you are against something in theory, but claiming because one other person is doing it is bad?
Why not tell me why you feel massclaiming will stand to advantage town, rather than just opt out with stating it's typical play in LYLO?
I already did. I told you i'm a Role Checker remember?
whether it be to find out if I could be scum or to pass the blame and get a lynch on me. Right now, it definitely feels like the latter, as you seem to be putting pressure on me whilst covering yourself up and avoiding my questions with fluff and half-baked responses and queries.
Don't you think if I wanted to get a lynch on you I'd use one of my 3 votes?
Why wouldn't I put pressure on you?
Do you think you'd be under no suspicion in LoL?
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Home, will catch up and do the promised rereads over the course of the evening. (Not visiting my parents tonight!)
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I'd feel bad about this but Rei is literally not reading the game in LoL.
Does Rei normally do this? I'd think he'd care more about peoples posts going into LoL then at the start of the game?
How could he have missed my claim? How could he have missed me telling Naigisa my role after I claimed?
No wonder he doesn't remember anything i've done, he's not bothering to read the game and appears to be more interested in slandering people for some strange reason.
This is actually a fair point. I didn't notice right away, but Serela mentioned some points on Rei-chan's posts that give off the sense that he's not paying 100% attention, particularly the bit on pushing a vote on someone other than CF7, because a reread does show that Serela did in fact try to get a Dan wagon started. I'm not sure what's going on with Rei-chan, but I think a reread on him may be in order...
Oh really.
I think Sereal is Town since the night kill had him as his biggest Town read and I don't see what Scum Sereal has to gain from killing Raitiki. I think he was killed to set up a mislynch on Sreals. (Possibly)
I mean, Celery HAS spent the whole game with Town as his Scumreads and can't do any Scumhunting in LoL because everybody is town :/
My primary suspicion on Serela runs more off of Serela's contribution to town since D1. I can agree initially that scum!Serela doesn't have a lot to gain from NKing Raitaki, and the idea of using that NK to set up that mislynch sounds like a reasonable argument. I can also imagine that being used as reverse psychology, though. Just as reference, can you quote where Raitaki states Serela is his biggest town read, because I can't seem to find any post from him that clearly states that.
And yeah, the whole "everyone seems town" bit from Serela doesn't ring right with me. Such passive play gets town nowhere, so I'd say it's better to find something to run with or at least ask a few questions around to get the ball rolling, sort of like we did.
Do you mean I didn't explain Why saying you are against something in theory, but claiming because one other person is doing it is bad?
You keep making the point that I'm "anti-massclaim", but I feel that's more of a misread on my intention. What I was intending was to get an explanation on why Kilg felt it was wise to massclaim at that time, and I haven't necessarily played any games wherein the need arose to massclaim in LYLO, so combined with the knowledge that roles are null in this setup, I wasn't necessarily sure what Kilg intended to do with that information. But you are right, my timing was terrible, and I didn't really think it through enough. My understanding of what claiming would do at that point did align with Kilg's reasoning generally speaking.
I suppose initially, just stating I wasn't feeling the idea of massclaiming was scummy enough to you, so I would've avoided nothing even if I waited. Still, at least this back and forth provides info for town, even if it's just on us two.
I already did. I told you i'm a Role Checker remember?
So basically you can confirm whether or not there's a fakeclaim, which I suppose would be nice in a more role-oriented setup, but again, roles are null toward alignment, so what point would there even be for scum to fakeclaim? I understand how it can prove useful - it's at least got me suspicious of Rei-chan, whose refusal to claim is now a bit more suspicious with his content quality's sudden drop - but I didn't recognize it as your reasoning as to why you felt massclaiming would prove useful.
I think this is more you running on the assumption that I'd take your claim itself as a reason to accept the massclaim as a positive.
Don't you think if I wanted to get a lynch on you I'd use one of my 3 votes?
Why wouldn't I put pressure on you?
Do you think you'd be under no suspicion in LoL?
That's a fair point: it's only logical that I'd be under as much suspicion and pressure as anyone else right now, regardless of initial reads. I'm putting too much weight on everyone's town reads on me, I guess. Doesn't help that Rei-chan's looking more suspicious, and he's been pushing me as a strong town read since the start.
Serela, do you mind explaining your reasoning as to why you feel everyone present is town?
Cut by 1
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Serela, do you mind explaining your reasoning as to why you feel everyone present is town?
Let's see, this includes... Shalako, Kilga, Nagisa, Rei, and myself. Myself is because the mod told me I am, so, moving on to the actual ones
Shalako I went over why I think he's town in n1. I think his play after n1 has continued to look more solidly town. You're similar, but to a lesser degree; your D1 was fine (albiet a bit low post density) but as the game goes on you've gotten progressively more solid. Your play today I think is pretty awesome. I really can't see you as scum at all, I'd probably list you as the most solidly town. Kilga I guess is more middle of the line because I don't see anything that makes me go "man he's so town!" but overall he looked pretty fine; that was enough until now, but when I'm faced with 4 town reads he's probably one of the ones I really should reconsider. Thinking about it again, you and Shalako are the ones I am the least likely to reconsider. Which brings me to Rei! Now, Rei, after his d1 I never really thought about it. He was pretty universally accepted as town AFAIK and I pretty much agreed with the sentiment and didn't think about it very hard, because I am Serela and I like things that are easy :derp: When you pointed out his weirdness today, I finally realized... wait, why have I been townclearing Rei, again? I'll need to ISO him soon (as in, before I go to sleep tonight)
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1 Day and 21 Hours remain until the End of Day 3
Friendly reminder: NOT lynching significantly reduces Town's odds of winning! Lynching the wrong person ends the game in favour of Scum. Lynching Scum gives you a lot of breathing room.
No one's cast a vote! 15 votes in play mean you need 8 votes to get a lynch going.
YOU MAY ##EXTEND to receive a one-time extension to your deliberation! It'll be a 24-hour extension, unless otherwise requested.
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wait what
when it's 3v2 how does not lynching guarantee reaching d4
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Oh right, I modkilled ActionDan. Correcting my post. EDIT: Corrected my post, also allowing an extension in the event that it is deemed necessary.
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Scumpair reread finished.
It almost certainly isn't Patorikku/Shalako, their D3 interactions have felt really real, real enough to make me forgive and (mostly) forget that Patorikku's seeming stance on Shalako wiggled weird a bit during N1/D2 and they didn't do much of anything else with each other before today.
Serela/Shalako seemed very unlikely at first with how much D1 back-and-forth they had but there's not been a lot between them since. Still don't think it's been very likely, but it's plausible, I suppose.
Patorikku/Serela is the most likely of the three options. There wasn't a lot between them before today, and even today, Patorikku's suspicion of Serela doesn't seem too energized, particularly since this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1207792.html#msg1207792) was never really followed up on (and this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1207918.html#msg1207918) being the next mention of Serela is really weird in light of the "I dunno if I feel as good about Serela's answers, though. I'll analyze in more detail when I get back home and don't have to post by mobile" from #216)
All that being said, I'm not completely sold on Patorikku/Serela yet, because (a) I can glean their opinions of who is town and who is scum (in Patorikku's case, at least) more easily than I can for Shalako, who has asked a lot of questions throughout the game but has few direct statements of "I think _____ is scum because _____", and (b) it seems DNA has done a bang-up job of not reading the game today, as well as possibly some revisionist history if Serela's claims are to be believed. I'm going to look into that next, before deciding who I think I would be most comfortable voting for right now.
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Also, to respond to DNA's #232 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1207809.html#msg1207809):
* I think framing my decision to not use my ability as "less discussion is good" is rather misleading. Given the pace of discussion up to that point in the game, I felt that the extra time would not have been beneficial, because there was nothing to suggest it would be utilized properly.
* I don't understand why I stand accused of "dismantl[ing] the TC function by forcing one lynch option". If you're referring to my caveat that I would only switch to someone whose lynch I would support, that was to indirectly indicate that I had no interest in voting for Raitaki, because I thought CF7 was the scummiest player in the game and Raitaki one of the towniest. It's also really bizarre to get frustrated with me for "forcing one lynch option" when I was present fairly often to change my vote if needed - it seems to me like this frustration should be directed at people that dropped votes and ran (Patorikku) or didn't even drop a vote at all (Shalako) if it's going to be directed at anyone.
* A solid scumread is going to have to wait until after I cross-check Serela's accusations of revisionist history against you (which, as stated, Imma do next), as well as your own response to same. I'm having problems distinguishing between magnitudes of scumminess because they're all roughly similar in that I have at least a few problems with everyone. (I don't know how Serela can read everyone as town right now, I'm having a tough time reading ANYONE as town!)
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Okay, Serela absolutely did respond to DNA's case on him here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1207038.html#msg1207038), so that's another not-reading-the-game point against DNA. In regards to the Dan thing, though, Serela stated noninterest early in the day here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1206926.html#msg1206926), which could be interpreted as opposing a Dan lynch without too much word-bending. The switching to being fine with voting for Dan is here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1207177.html#msg1207177), which was late in the nomination part of the day (as Serela admitted) and thus unlikely to actually get the necessary support. (I would not have followed Serela off of CF7 anywhere unless another person hopped on CF7.)
I'd like explanations from both parties as to why these inconsistencies are present (Serela claiming he "tried to get a Dan lynch going as soon as someone brought him up and I remembered he existed" when he showed lack of interest early in the day, DNA claiming Serela didn't respond to his case when Serela did indeed respond).
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Here's an excerpt from Rei's post #166 early D2. (I assume N2 was supposed to be N1)
Dan has always been a kinda difficult read for most of us because he takes comfort in his usual super lurky, minimal words playstyle so we pretty have to case him by his meta and intent. And running on that, I find it indicative that hes not even trying to post during N2 to be rather scummy. Usual town dan should be moderately invested in the game, but will at least try to address the biggest wagons/debates happening. I point attention to how last game town!dan at least tried to immediately address the DNA/Shalako spat and gave a list of general reads, and was making rather sensible, if brief, points during his presence. I don't like how this game Dan just go 'lol not interested in elections' and wasn't even trying to make use of the nighttalk to its fullest. So I think I would rather lynch Dan over CF7.
Yet today, despite the fact that Dan literally never posted d2 (reinforcing further the reasons for scumreading Dan here), Rei flipped opinions saying how they would have -defended- Dan against being lynched? :S Rei complains about having been forced into the CF7 lynch but he only made one post inbetween day start and the 48h mark, and there's all the previously brought up points of either misremembering things that happened or placing the blame on the forced CF7 lynch on the role people, and 180'ing about Dan and seeming to not realize without the modkill it'd still be lylo, the slot actually sort of looks like a mess. So much of a mess that it doesn't even really look like the scum kind of questionable play so much as just being confusing and weird, but, by matter of PoE that still puts Rei at the top of my lynch priority list. :T
Cut:Well, understandably, Dan had claimed PR on D1 and started participating during N1. I wanted to see what would happen from there. What ended up happening, though, was literally nothing, so it was time for chucking Dan off a cliff to become a very viable thing. :T I would have starting pushing it a bit earlier, but... since the deadline was at like 11am my time, it wasn't even discernable Dan was continuing to not exist over playing until whoops too late.
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on the role people
is supposed to be on the WRONG people*
anyway I need to sleep
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I think most of this misunderstanding over if I am deliberate in not reading the game can simply be addressed as I was truly bothered by IRL business d2, and progressively being more apathetic and played other things today because of TC shenanigans. So the links were pretty helpful for jogging my memory, thanks.
To respond to Kilg, I don't think the Serelas response as you've linked is a good example, because I have followed upon him and again emphasized why a meta defend on Serela is less valid because of his playstyle. As seen here I don't really buy the Serela explanation for his behavior, Serela is just too characteristically random that meta arguments are pretty much useless because he can switch from capable townie to village idiot on a whim. But Serela does have his priorities, and thats play optimization. I find that throughout our games despite Serela changing the wrapper for his playstyle every game his intent is usually straightforward; abuse powerful roles, rolespec when alot of roles crop up, and generally trying to be a leading player and contributing his best as town. I don't like how he forfeits the role of TC because he thinks he's 'inadequate', which is giving up way too quickly than the Serela I know. Also, the justifying lynching everyone waffling behavior usually only crops up at lategame for town!serela, I don't think I recall many occasions which Serela does waffling this early on. And based on our game history and general deduction, I seriously want his lynch more than anything.
Which wasn't really addressed again.
Ill admit my defense of CF7 is easy to judge as me diverting attention and shifting blame because of its timing. But I digress if its indicative of scum because of its specific lack of purpose. It was me completing what I couldve posted because I initially planned to do it. I am also saying the truth when I say Dan not posting doesn't directly equate to objective scuminess and lynchability, you do not throw away every game you are in because you need to play with a degenerate player. You learn to ignore or deal with them. Emotionally, I too would love to ignore Dan's meta and lynch him here and there, but I just don't think the odds that he's scum are anymore better than anyone else and the lynch is of very low information value, so I stated I wouldve defended against that.
The LyLo regardless of the gamestate argument is something I honestly overlooked, so yeah, that's my fault there.
I am surprised myself too at how sloppy I am though this time. But I feel much better about Serela now that I can actually understand that hes paying attention to the game. Also, players interacting is very beautiful, I will try to get a reread going.
Meanwhile, I think the major questions I have on my mind are that I want Kilg to elaborate more on his scumpairs, Serela to explain what exactly is your Poe that lead to me being your priority lynch, and Shalako for his reads on people. Contrary to your belief, I did skim your claim but just doesn't find it very insightful, you are not excused from outputting content and telling us where your priorities lie just because you claimed, as claims alone aren't very indicative (moreso in this game) and I will need to know your train of thought before I can make a decision.
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Which wasn't really addressed again.
Meanwhile, I think the major questions I have on my mind are that I want Kilg to elaborate more on his scumpairs, Serela to explain what exactly is your Poe that lead to me being your priority lynch, and Shalako for his reads on people. Contrary to your belief, I did skim your claim but just doesn't find it very insightful, you are not excused from outputting content and telling us where your priorities lie just because you claimed, as claims alone aren't very indicative (moreso in this game) and I will need to know your train of thought before I can make a decision.
I didn't address it again because your response was basically "I don't believe you" :S There's not much I can do if I present my reasoning but you don't believe me.
My PoE is mostly explaining in 243, although admittedly it's not super indepth. It's hard to explain why people feel town >> Nagisa's play today does feel quite A+ to me though, and earlier in the game the only problem was a bit low density in otherwise good posts. My Shalako townread comes from post 133 https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1206407.html#msg1206407
Although, now that I look at it again, where was Shalako d2? :S Oh, IRL.
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Patorikku/Serela is the most likely of the three options. There wasn't a lot between them before today, and even today, Patorikku's suspicion of Serela doesn't seem too energized, particularly since this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1207792.html#msg1207792) was never really followed up on (and this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1207918.html#msg1207918) being the next mention of Serela is really weird in light of the "I dunno if I feel as good about Serela's answers, though. I'll analyze in more detail when I get back home and don't have to post by mobile" from #216)
Guh, I have kept forgetting to get to that reread on Serela, haven't I? I suppose the best defense I have on that is similar to Rei-chan's statement on why meta reads on Serela aren't very effective, in that his/her (I keep forgetting the pronoun in use, I'm sorry :<) playstyle is rather ecstatic and tends to appear scummy at times. I did experience Serela's playstyle last game, and my last post D5 there might show just how well that worked for me. It's kind of demotivating, and I'd rather not push scum!Serela so excessively this game without some clear cut reasoning.
So in any case, I'm glad this was the post in question you brought up, Kilg, because while I can agree to some extent with Rei-chan's 228 answer, it contradicts Kilg's theory that at least a player's playstyle throughout the game can be measured to their role to determine if there's any inconsistencies due to the role. This is also the post where you state your refusal to claim and also request (perhaps jokingly?) that Shalako claim. I take it you're not in complete agreement with the statement in general, Rei-chan, but is the situation provided abnormal enough that Kilg's logic isn't sound? Would you agree with it under other circumstances, IE last game?
And back to Serela's answer to that query. Now that I'm both in front of my computer and not outside pretending to have a life, I can see a little more clearly that your answer doesn't actually explain your reasoning. Rather, you kind of state the same one-line response that Shalako provided to me in a bit more detail, if I can even call it that, because it seems devoid of a logical scum-hunting purpose. This is combined with the fact that until I mentioned Rei-chan's drop in quality, you were rather convinced everyone was town. It's your intent that I'm finding a bit difficult to pin down. Are you more concerned with finding someone whose actions are clearly scummy, rather than posing questions that could get a conversation going and finding hints of scumminess from others?
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26 Hours remain until the End of Day 3 (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/election?iso=20150822T2045&p0=%3A&msg=Day+3+Countdown&font=cursive&csz=1&swk=1)!
Friendly reminder: NOT lynching significantly reduces Town's odds of winning! Lynching the wrong person ends the game in favour of Scum. Lynching Scum gives you a lot of breathing room.
No one's cast a vote! 15 votes in play mean you need 8 votes to get a lynch going.
YOU MAY ##EXTEND to receive a one-time extension to your deliberation! It'll be a 24-hour extension, unless otherwise requested.
Bardedit: WHOOP, didn't realise PX had done it! :V
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Are you more concerned with finding someone whose actions are clearly scummy, rather than posing questions that could get a conversation going and finding hints of scumminess from others?
My playstyle does not employ questions very often. (It happens, of course, but it's not something I actively think about doing.) I can't recall my use of questions very well (as I pay no thought to ones I make) or I'd answer that more thoroughly.
I can see a little more clearly that your answer doesn't actually explain your reasoning. Rather, you kind of state the same one-line response that Shalako provided to me in a bit more detail, if I can even call it that, because it seems devoid of a logical scum-hunting purpose.
That's because it's a question about my townreads, not my scum reads. And I'm not going to have big cases on why people are town. Partially because people looking like strong town-motivated players tends to be harder to case, and also because people don't usually bother doing that sort of thing. Although the one about why Shalako was town had a little meat to it I suppose! With you it's just that, uh... things that... are... how... people... work... uh, yeah, I don't know how to put it into words. Shut up and accept being town ;_; Moving on
This is combined with the fact that until I mentioned Rei-chan's drop in quality, you were rather convinced everyone was town.
As explained in previous posts, people posting stuff like this brought Rei back to my span of attention and I realized he wasn't the super townie captain sunflower I'd been giving him a pass as since d1, and never realized really stopped happening. Besides, would you be happier if I sat here uselessly complaining everyone is town all day? :S I mean obviously I'm going to be changing my opinion on someone to something more negative, if I read everyone as town than there is a guarantee some of my reads are wrong. Other bit of the statement around here responded to at top.
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Where's the Rei Iso?
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That was post 250. Sorry if you expected more because I said iso, but without scumflips it's not as though there's any specific interactions to be looking for.
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##Extension
The scumpairs thing was inspired by my initial kneejerk feeling here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1207747.html#msg1207747). I was hoping something would stand out as "whoa this is some scummy interaction going on", but nothing really did. (As stated earlier, Patorikku/Serela is certainly possible but it's hardly a sure thing.) If you're asking for the details of why I came to the conclusions I did, I can provide the notes I took, but they're honestly nothing revelatory, just three separate lists (one for each pair) of post numbers accompanied by what the poster did in that post in relation to the other part of the potential pair. Anyone could recreate it. If people really want to see them, though, I'll post them.
All that aside, though, since none of the three pairs stood out to me as clearly a scum team, and DNA's play today has been a notable step down from the rest of the game, I'm questioning the wisdom of spending much more time on picking through those three possibilities, since I'm substantially more open to the other three than I was in that first post. Really, I'm beginning to think I'd be best served by stopping playing Match Game and go back to simply hunting down scum on an individual basis. Pairings can come after we have a scum flip.
The more I dwell on this game, the more my mind keeps coming back to the fact that, despite all of his questions (some of which have been quite good), Shalako's been rather reluctant to actually accuse people of being scum. There was me on Day 1, I suppose, but that's been it. Even his grilling of Patorikku today hasn't come with a direct accusation (unless someone wants to argue that the last line in #207 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1207755.html#msg1207755) wasn't a joke). If someone stuck a gun to my head right now and said "Vote" this is most likely where I'd land.
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Just as reference, can you quote where Raitaki states Serela is his biggest town read, because I can't seem to find any post from him that clearly states that.
Didn't happen, Raitaki was explaining why Dan town clearing Serela was a point against dan, not saying Serela was town cleared.
You're the only one engaged enough right now to catch this for some reason.
You keep making the point that I'm "anti-massclaim", but I feel that's more of a misread on my intention. What I was intending was to get an explanation on why Kilg felt it was wise to massclaim at that time, and I haven't necessarily played any games wherein the need arose to massclaim in LYLO, so combined with the knowledge that roles are null in this setup, I wasn't necessarily sure what Kilg intended to do with that information. But you are right, my timing was terrible, and I didn't really think it through enough.
Yea I've considered it was general "why should we claim; why is mass-claiming in LoL a thing" rather then "I'm anti-Claim but i'm getting a slight amount of peer pressure from Shalako doing it so I better claim" hence me not voting you over it.
I pressure people over things that may be incorrect simply for reads.
So basically you can confirm whether or not there's a fakeclaim, which I suppose would be nice in a more role-oriented setup, but again, roles are null toward alignment, so what point would there even be for scum to fakeclaim? I understand how it can prove useful - it's at least got me suspicious of Rei-chan, whose refusal to claim is now a bit more suspicious with his content quality's sudden drop - but I didn't recognize it as your reasoning as to why you felt massclaiming would prove useful.
We don't know if Scum have roles that they wouldn't want to lie about even if they didn't have Fakeclaims.
, the slot actually sort of looks like a mess. So much of a mess that it doesn't even really look like the scum kind of questionable play so much as just being confusing and weird,
Explain.
, and Shalako for his reads on people. Contrary to your belief, I did skim your claim but just doesn't find it very insightful, you are not excused from outputting content and telling us where your priorities lie just because you claimed, as claims alone aren't very indicative (moreso in this game) and I will need to know your train of thought before I can make a decision.
2. I am not a lynch candidate. My claim will not improve the gamestate nor provide information in any insightful context, if anything, Shalako, you are the one who should claim
Tldr I stand to lose more than potential gain if I were to claim, so I didn't, also you should claim
Rei is lying.
All that aside, though, since none of the three pairs stood out to me as clearly a scum team
How come you didn't consider any ReiX Scum pairs? I know you said Knee-Jerk but LoL isn't enough to consider Rei being Scum? What if there was a interaction with ReiX that would point to them being scum? Why aren't you afraid of missing an interaction like that?
The more I dwell on this game, the more my mind keeps coming back to the fact that, despite all of his questions (some of which have been quite good), Shalako's been rather reluctant to actually accuse people of being scum. There was me on Day 1, I suppose, but that's been it. Even his grilling of Patorikku today hasn't come with a direct accusation (unless someone wants to argue that the last line in #207 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1207755.html#msg1207755) wasn't a joke). If someone stuck a gun to my head right now and said "Vote" this is most likely where I'd land.
So what the guy questioning people without flat out calling people scum is more suspicious then the guy who thinks everyone is Town and even hedges his PoE based one possible scum read?
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Explain.
Showing a high degree of not knowing what's going on or remembering what happened in the past isn't really something that's more likely to come from scum than town; scum doesn't really want to do that either and it's not like being scum makes you less able to comprehend what's going on (It impacts your ability to scumhunt, but that's different). However, contradiction of own opinion is more concerning, and the lack of lucidity doesn't help the slot look more town, so compared to townreads I still feel pretty good about voting there right now.
(Except it's lylo, so I'm not voting yet. Even with the triple vote gimmick, if just two single votes were placed down, scum could quickhammer. Granted, it's unlikely two out of the three town will each place a vote down on the third townie, which is the only situation that could allow scum quickhammer, but still. I also don't even want to think about a situation where we try to clear or frame people based on lacks of quickhammers in certain situations ow)
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How come you didn't consider any ReiX Scum pairs? I know you said Knee-Jerk but LoL isn't enough to consider Rei being Scum? What if there was a interaction with ReiX that would point to them being scum? Why aren't you afraid of missing an interaction like that?
I have limited time with which to work (I can't do anything more with this game while at work than follow along with immediate events), so I decided to focus on what I thought were the most likely possibilities. I think it's rather conclusion-jumpy to imply that I'd never go back and look at DNA, particularly since the end result of my re-read was to do just that, though I suppose that's has a bit of hindsight bias. Still, if you're so concerned with the idea that I was willing to spend the day ignoring the possibility of Scum DNA, then I have to say I'm rather these questions are coming now, rather than back when I first proposed the idea. Why wait for so long?
(If you are, instead, asking why I'm not going back and re-reading all of the possible DNA scumpair possibilities, then I've already provided my explanation for dropping pairhunting in favor of scumhunting.)
So what the guy questioning people without flat out calling people scum is more suspicious then the guy who thinks everyone is Town and even hedges his PoE based one possible scum read?
Yes, because I actually know what Serela thinks, even if he's having a hard time finding a scum read. Questions are good, but opinions and conclusions are better, because scum can ask questions until the cows come home with less effort than they need to use to present plausible opinions and conclusions.
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<_< That's quite a lot of overnight posts.
There's currently less than 8 hours to go in the day. If people aren't going to post all that much right now, can two somebodies at least vote for an extension? tia
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Extension or not, can people make clear who they're thinking of voting for? It's getting kinda to that point and there's slots who I really don't know what they're thinking. Mine would be on Rei. I'll be here up to deadline.
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I have limited time with which to work (I can't do anything more with this game while at work than follow along with immediate events), so I decided to focus on what I thought were the most likely possibilities. I think it's rather conclusion-jumpy to imply that I'd never go back and look at DNA, particularly since the end result of my re-read was to do just that, though I suppose that's has a bit of hindsight bias.
But...You never went back and looked at DNA (Before commenting on his latest play today and today only)
Day One you said this:
. (FWIW I don't care about much DNA anymore, nothing he's done in the actual meaningful part of the game as been very scummy.)
Could you explain it please since it's vague.
Still, if you're so concerned with the idea that I was willing to spend the day ignoring the possibility of Scum DNA, then I have to say I'm rather these questions are coming now, rather than back when I first proposed the idea. Why wait for so long?
Whys it matter?
(If you are, instead, asking why I'm not going back and re-reading all of the possible DNA scumpair possibilities, then I've already provided my explanation for dropping pairhunting in favor of scumhunting.)
Please demonstrate Dna scumpairs for me.
Yes, because I actually know what Serela thinks, even if he's having a hard time finding a scum read. Questions are good, but opinions and conclusions are better, because scum can ask questions until the cows come home with less effort than they need to use to present plausible opinions and conclusions.
You can't seriously put that much weight in the conclusions Serela has formed.
It's LoL and he can't decide on who's scum because he thinks everybody is town and he's only wanted to kill town people all game.
Furthermore if you've read the thread several times how come you haven't noticed I literally haven't called anyone scum the entire game, not just in LoL?
Voting for me not shouting about who I think is Scum and instead questioning people when if i'm wrong loses the game is just silly.
I've got plenty of opinions and conclusions I was just raised to keep my business to myself thank you very much. (I'm super paranoid so there's no point posting fantasies I discard quickly)
(It impacts your ability to scumhunt, but that's different)
Prove to me that's not what's happening to you.
Extension or not, can people make clear who they're thinking of voting for? It's getting kinda to that point and there's slots who I really don't know what they're thinking. Mine would be on Rei. I'll be here up to deadline.
Rei lied about reading my claim since he asked me twice for my claim right?
Like this is super-clear cut right? Other people see this?
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But...You never went back and looked at DNA (Before commenting on his latest play today and today only)
Day One you said this:
Could you explain it please since it's vague.
It means that I thought his play was fine in the part of the game that I considered meaningful (i.e. everything that wasn't silly RVS shenanigans). He wasn't doing anything scummy then as far as I was concerned. His D2 also looked fine; it's only been his D3 that has looked bad, which is why it was the only thing I brought up.
Whys it matter?
I think if you were town that was genuinely concerned about me ignoring the possibility of Scum DNA, you would have said so when I first posted that I'd be looking primarily at the three people that weren't him. Bringing it up now looks less like genuine concern and more like hunting for anything you can use to make yourself look better/me look worse.
Now, I'll ask again: if you're so concerned with the idea that I was willing to spend the day ignoring the possibility of Scum DNA, why wait for so long to bring it up?
You can't seriously put that much weight in the conclusions Serela has formed.
It's LoL and he can't decide on who's scum because he thinks everybody is town and he's only wanted to kill town people all game.
Well, he certainly looks to be leaning toward DNA now, at the very least.
Regardless, it's not like reading everyone as town in LYLO is some shining beacon of towniness. But he's at least had explanations for why he was townreading everyone, and this sort of thing just happens to players from time to time (though it mostly happens to Shadowy). If he had thrown up his hands, gone "everyone is town, I can't figure this out", and just vanished, that'd be a different story entirely, but I have some idea of where he's coming from on each read.
Furthermore if you've read the thread several times how come you haven't noticed I literally haven't called anyone scum the entire game, not just in LoL?
Voting for me not shouting about who I think is Scum and instead questioning people when if i'm wrong loses the game is just silly.
I actually did notice this, as shown below:
The more I dwell on this game, the more my mind keeps coming back to the fact that, despite all of his questions (some of which have been quite good), Shalako's been rather reluctant to actually accuse people of being scum. There was me on Day 1, I suppose, but that's been it.
In fact, the lack of calling either Patorikku or DNA scum after the way you'd been pursuing them today was really what stuck out in my mind the most when I was writing that post. (I admit I may be misremembering whether or not you actually outright accused me of being scum on Day 1, but I don't really want to go back and double-check that, because (a) it's not really all that important, and (b) trying to reread our Day 1 argument stresses me out majorly. )
Please demonstrate Dna scumpairs for me.
I've got plenty of opinions and conclusions I was just raised to keep my business to myself thank you very much.
I'll show you mine if you show me yours.
Rei lied about reading my claim since he asked me twice for my claim right?
Like this is super-clear cut right? Other people see this?
I'm waiting for DNA to explain himself on that one, yes.
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In fact, the lack of calling either Patorikku or DNA scum after the way you'd been pursuing them today was really what stuck out in my mind the most when I was writing that post. (I admit I may be misremembering whether or not you actually outright accused me of being scum on Day 1, but I don't really want to go back and double-check that, because (a) it's not really all that important, and (b) trying to reread our Day 1 argument stresses me out majorly. )
I didn't, I attacked your arguments, and dang it is important since you said you intend to vote me in LoL over it. Voting me over a playstyle difference over me not overtly calling people scum when I'm clearly questioning people is weak.
I didn't question why you didn't re-read DNA at the time because your pair reread ended with you saying you found nothing and I was way more focused on other things at the time.
I'm questioning it now because I wanted to see WHY you thought DNA was so townie you didn't bother reading him in LoL and it's a vague one-liner so i'm working backwards to see if your logic was for clearing DNA was sound in the first place since you mentioned DNA looking more suspicious in your eyesBeing a Notable Step Down.(Underlined here is the reason specifically for my timing).
And dang right i'm hunting for things to go off of. Everybody should be hunting for things to go off of.
You still haven't been clear at all with why his play D1-2 were fine.
It's gonna take me forever to write down all my Pair-Interactions and specific player analysis and I've got to go (12-14H) so
##Extend
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##Extension
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I am awake, let's do this.
Also, ##EXTEND
To broadly address concerns over my play or it being 'a step down', I honestly, genuinely believe its not really indicative. I mean this is probably very irresponsible coming from me, and I will readily admit that it is, because I am distracted by both irl work and FTL I find myself rapidly losing interest in the game, but the simple answer to the shalako exchange is simple, I wasn't sparing time to go through posts and missed the Shalako claim, thats why i was asking for him to claim again. The post I made after shalako pointed out that he claimed already was simply me restating my position because whether Shalako have or have not claimed before pushing me to claim only justifies that individual push, and still does not address the broad problem I have with Shalako, that is overall very uncommitted arguments that do not seriously push someone as scum. This 'Rei dun screwed up thing!' still feels very much exaggerated and the conclusion that it somehow directly leads to scum honestly feels very artificial, much along the lines of the 'Kilg is making things up! Hes scum!' thing on D1.
Also, since we are on the topic of claims, I am a VT, I have no special abilities whatsoever, I was basically crumbing that in the very first self-promotion post when I outright stated, 'unlike other swimmings, I have only one stroke and isn't as good as you guys'.
The reverse psychology thing Shalako brought up about how caring about his commitment will 'lose us the game and is silly' is honestly rather confusing too, unlike Kilga who seems to be accepting Shalako's arguments, I don't understand why its ok for Shalako to avoid that questioning altogether and instead throw us a WIFOM and tell us not to think about it. To be more specific, Serela actually does much better in this department, he was at least very honest and upfront about not being able to get a good read on anyone because 'everyone seems town', and he was readily admitting the PoE on me make little sense to begin with, which were why I decided to look at someone else instead of further tunneling my 'confscums'. Serela makes very genuine misslips I can believe that is from a town!Serela, whereas I can't really say the same about Shalako. This doesn't mean I am entirely dropping my suspicion on Serela though, but that basically I think I am more pensive on that.
But this isn't even supposed to be the main topic, because of the past 24 hours, I have basically been contemplating and ISOing the posts Kilga and Nagisa made throughout the game, and whether they made sense with player interactions as scum. It was a difficult process because the scumkill have been of paritcularly low value as Raitaki was an obvtown target.
But that doesn't really change how I think Nagisa is actually more scummy upon rereading than I initally expected. His posts are much more logically sound than Shalako's and Serela's, thats a given, but I want to point out in specific how that at their core they still are similar to theirs, meaning they usually lack commitment and are what little that do are rather sheepish and mostly pandering to popular opinion.
Notably, I find the only D2 post from Nagisa to be very lacking. There was only one post, two if you count even the one during nighttalk about Nagisa's position on CF7, and as you may observe, his opinion pummels rather rapidly from somewhat suspicious questioning to directly scumread, as seen here;
As for CF7, I'm in agreement with everyone else, and I'd like to hear why he doesn't feel like pinning down who exactly he thinks could be scum at the moment. I know there's not a lot of information to run with at this point, but I'm sure now you can offer us more insight on the individuals you've been questioning. Which of Shalako, Kilg and Rei-chan are you most suspicious of? And what about of me, Serela and Raitaki? Why do you feel you can outright exempt the possibility of Dan being scum?
Yeah, that last post from CF7 wasn't really satisfying to me. For starters, both of his cases run on the idea that what both Shalako and Raitaki posted throughout the game lacks depth, and while I can understand that read on Raitaki to an extent, I really don't buy Shalako would keep a heated argument like that going and have it be "hollow." In all fairness, your posts seemed more hollow throughout D1 to me, and this post isn't helping that case. Especially since most of us are scumreading or at least suspicious of Shalako right now, it makes it the easy vote. Not only that, but you've still failed to mention why you don't even consider Dan as a possible scum candidate.
I want to note specifically Nagisa is leaning particularly heavy on following existent players cases or majority's consent, even after addressing my inital D1 question of his posts still feeling very rehash heavy, in addition, I noticed upon a reread that most of Nagisa's arguments which are original are mostly cookie cutter scumhunt logic, I personally don't feel elaboration on why 'lurking is bad' or 'claim philosophy' are very indicative of commitment, and I have a bone to pick with that.
Finally, my biggest problem to note is how in particular laid back Nagisa is and how confident he is at upholding his townreads and lynches. I want to bring your attention in particular to last game in FTL mafia where Nagisa was waffling a million times back and forth and is basically swayed to a degree by every wall. I find his play this game to differ very greatly from his playstyle last game and is notably much more confident and super concise (to a degree his presence is somewhat lacking), and thats not really good, I find his townreads are constructed
very weakly upon generalizations instead of logic, and his votes are parked usually without much deliberation which I saw was characteristic from town!Nagisa last game. It can basically be contrasted with Kilgs playstyle, which you can note that Kilg is very bold, straightforward and lays his convictions and intents clearly on the table where they do seem to represent a gradual developing thought process as he reaches out for new information and reconsider his standings once hes being approached. Nagisas play this game is essentially defined by sheeping, and that seems to be rather characteristic scum behavior from me combined with an overall lack of presence.
cut by 2
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Also, if you would've so kindly noted, I have been trying my best to follow the game despite my limited free time and most of my posts are phoneposts, which does make it significantly difficult especially in regards to following the game, rereading and casebuilding. I think that pushing the perspective my play today was a 'step-down' is a rather irresponsible claim and is offensive to the passion I put into mafia, considering I do also tolerate more than one or two misreps coming from any player in any game. I don't really appreciate Shalako and Serela for deliberately blowing this out of proportion and sending a barrage of accusations my way when I was literally incapable of defending myself. This style, as I have noted early game, is particularly irritating because it causes an echo chamber effect that exemplifies this idea which itself is already very confirmation bias heavy.
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Oh jeez what a wall, what happened while I was sleeping? I'm here, gimme a few minutes/an hour so I can wade through this pool of words.
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Extension or not, can people make clear who they're thinking of voting for? It's getting kinda to that point and there's slots who I really don't know what they're thinking. Mine would be on Rei. I'll be here up to deadline.
As of the start of this post, I'm feeling I'm leaning on Rei-chan, but I need to look over what he has to say. Serela's my secondary option.
Okay so the Kilg-Shalako back and forth again, and Shalako's logic is still sound. Might come back to this to see if there are contradictions, but first, Rei-chan's wall.
To broadly address concerns over my play or it being 'a step down', I honestly, genuinely believe its not really indicative. I mean this is probably very irresponsible coming from me, and I will readily admit that it is, because I am distracted by both irl work and FTL I find myself rapidly losing interest in the game, but the simple answer to the shalako exchange is simple, I wasn't sparing time to go through posts and missed the Shalako claim, thats why i was asking for him to claim again. The post I made after shalako pointed out that he claimed already was simply me restating my position because whether Shalako have or have not claimed before pushing me to claim only justifies that individual push, and still does not address the broad problem I have with Shalako, that is overall very uncommitted arguments that do not seriously push someone as scum. This 'Rei dun screwed up thing!' still feels very much exaggerated and the conclusion that it somehow directly leads to scum honestly feels very artificial, much along the lines of the 'Kilg is making things up! Hes scum!' thing on D1.
This paragraph has a few issues, personal or otherwise.
- Rapidly losing interest? NOW of all times? I personally feel things are actually starting to get interesting.
- I'm fairly certain Shalako's claim was the first thing he posted D3. I don't feel it's normal for you to skip over this so callously. But yeah, irl issues and whatnot do tend to get in the way so... ?\_(ツ)_/?
- A fair point on Shalako's arguments not really being a serious push for scum, but I feel his questioning has gotten us somewhere. If nothing else, I'm much less convinced of the possibility of him being scum right now.
- The exaggeration of the 'Rei dun screwed up thing!' is coming from who, again? Is this just one person, or the whole of town? If we're just talking town here, then you can't expect me to believe all of town is blowing this out of proportion on purpose.
Also, since we are on the topic of claims, I am a VT, I have no special abilities whatsoever, I was basically crumbing that in the very first self-promotion post when I outright stated, 'unlike other swimmings, I have only one stroke and isn't as good as you guys'.
So you're vanilla, yet you refused to claim this? What's the reasoning behind that? If you crumbed it early on, (not a direct quote, but his opening paragraph on 15 checks out) you could have stated it just as early as you chose not to claim.
I'd argue that the crumb is just flavor fluff, but after looking at a few of the roles and the characters in question, flavor and roles seem pretty intertwined. :x
The reverse psychology thing Shalako brought up about how caring about his commitment will 'lose us the game and is silly' is honestly rather confusing too, unlike Kilga who seems to be accepting Shalako's arguments, I don't understand why its ok for Shalako to avoid that questioning altogether and instead throw us a WIFOM and tell us not to think about it. To be more specific, Serela actually does much better in this department, he was at least very honest and upfront about not being able to get a good read on anyone because 'everyone seems town', and he was readily admitting the PoE on me make little sense to begin with, which were why I decided to look at someone else instead of further tunneling my 'confscums'. Serela makes very genuine misslips I can believe that is from a town!Serela, whereas I can't really say the same about Shalako. This doesn't mean I am entirely dropping my suspicion on Serela though, but that basically I think I am more pensive on that.
Actually, this does seem a bit suspicious, when you mention it. It sounds a bit like the "effort = town" argument that came up a lot last game, and reserving your reads at this point may not be the wisest decision. Am I really gonna have to reread Shalako's posts again for this? ._.
But this isn't even supposed to be the main topic, because of the past 24 hours, I have basically been contemplating and ISOing the posts Kilga and Nagisa made throughout the game, and whether they made sense with player interactions as scum. It was a difficult process because the scumkill have been of paritcularly low value as Raitaki was an obvtown target.
But that doesn't really change how I think Nagisa is actually more scummy upon rereading than I initally expected. His posts are much more logically sound than Shalako's and Serela's, thats a given, but I want to point out in specific how that at their core they still are similar to theirs, meaning they usually lack commitment and are what little that do are rather sheepish and mostly pandering to popular opinion.
To be fair, most of my arguments last game were sheepish and pandering to popular opinion, and the only clear cut difference was I was instacleared with the vig kill.
Notably, I find the only D2 post from Nagisa to be very lacking. There was only one post, two if you count even the one during nighttalk about Nagisa's position on CF7, and as you may observe, his opinion pummels rather rapidly from somewhat suspicious questioning to directly scumread, as seen here;I want to note specifically Nagisa is leaning particularly heavy on following existent players cases or majority's consent, even after addressing my inital D1 question of his posts still feeling very rehash heavy, in addition, I noticed upon a reread that most of Nagisa's arguments which are original are mostly cookie cutter scumhunt logic, I personally don't feel elaboration on why 'lurking is bad' or 'claim philosophy' are very indicative of commitment, and I have a bone to pick with that.
The D2 post was pretty massive a change, but I was overly confident on that read and on Kilg's assessment of the slot. I recognize how scummy it looks that I immediately jumped onto that vote over one post, but there was nothing convincing about his apathetic response to mine or anyone else's questions.
Wait WHEN did we do that? When did you pose a question D1 regarding my posts feeling rehash heavy, and when did I respond to it? I don't recall this AT ALL, and I can't find that anywhere. Are you making that up, and why?
Which posts in particular are you referring to at the end there, and what exactly do you have an issue with on such cases?
Finally, my biggest problem to note is how in particular laid back Nagisa is and how confident he is at upholding his townreads and lynches. I want to bring your attention in particular to last game in FTL mafia where Nagisa was waffling a million times back and forth and is basically swayed to a degree by every wall. I find his play this game to differ very greatly from his playstyle last game and is notably much more confident and super concise (to a degree his presence is somewhat lacking), and thats not really good, I find his townreads are constructed
very weakly upon generalizations instead of logic, and his votes are parked usually without much deliberation which I saw was characteristic from town!Nagisa last game. It can basically be contrasted with Kilgs playstyle, which you can note that Kilg is very bold, straightforward and lays his convictions and intents clearly on the table where they do seem to represent a gradual developing thought process as he reaches out for new information and reconsider his standings once hes being approached. Nagisas play this game is essentially defined by sheeping, and that seems to be rather characteristic scum behavior from me combined with an overall lack of presence.
cut by 2
Yeesh, this is what I get for trying to have some confidence in my own decision-making skill? >.>
In any case, I made clear post-game that I wasn't immediately familiar with forum-styled mafia play, and I was playing in a new environment in general. My understanding of the basic rules was all I had for that game. I've got that experience now, and I tried to make use of it and put a little more faith in my deductive ability. While my confidence on the singular lynch that town has initiated was misguided, most of my remaining townreads that haven't been cleared have been shifting all over the place, namely my opinion on your own slot, which went from blind townread with little basis of evidence to a pretty heavy scumlean, more based off probable fabrication of evidence - such as the D1 question you mentioned which I'm fairly certain never happened - and unnecessary concealment of your role.
You make a good point on my behaviour seeming sheepish and my activity being lacking, and I don't have any good reason for it. Lack of experience isn't good enough to excuse that here.
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2 hours and 10 minutes (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/election?iso=20150822T2045&p0=%3A&msg=Day+3+Countdown&font=cursive&csz=1&swk=1)
Kilga, Shalako, Rei, Serela voted extend. Gonna need Nagisa's vote to extend before end of Day to extend the Day.
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Ah, right, sorry.
##EXTEND
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Rejoice, the Day is now 26 hours long again! (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20150823T19&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+LYLO&font=hand&swk=1)
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Rejoice, young swimmer. Your wish to be Free! will finally come tr-- Hold on, wrong series.
Not sure if I'll be here for deadline or for when anything exciting actually happens, because apparently that all happens around 3 - 11 am EST. >:| So I'm putting my votes down on the table now so maybe we can get this ball rolling.
##Vote1 Rei Ryugazaki
##Vote2 Serela
##Vote3 Kilgamayan
I made my case on Rei-chan last post, but to sum it up, I don't feel there's any reason for a vanilla townie to drag us on for so long over his role while having a so-called crumb that he can fall back on to cover him. That alongside his decline in quality as of D3 and his sudden fabrication of several different points leads me to believe he's almost certainly scum.
There is definitely something fishy about Serela seeing everyone present as town at the beginning of D3, and switching over to seeing Rei-chan being scum only after it being mentioned seems like sheeping. While it's true Serela's playstyle has always been erratic and difficult to pin down, I'm not about to let it slide and give the idea that I feel it's beneficial for town. Maybe Serela's scum, maybe not, but at the moment, only Rei-chan has been sticking out as scummier during this day phase.
I don't have a strong case for either Kilg or Shalako, and at the moment I feel more convinced that their fight D1 was a town/town battle, but while Shalako has generally convinced me he's more likely to be town, I don't know if I feel the same for Kilg. Laser-guided offense and all, I haven't properly analyzed Kilg's arguments and logic, despite stating I would keep an eye on him, so I'll make sure to look over his case before I have to go anywhere pre-end of phase.
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Hmm hmm hmmmmm.
That was a rather illuminating reread. I think I've seen why Shalako wanted me to look through DNA interactions so badly. My desire for Shalako's lynch has decreased and I'm willing to humor them for the time being, though I'd still prefer they present their pairings and such first, for my own peace of mind if nothing else.
But first, some responses!
I didn't, I attacked your arguments, and dang it is important since you said you intend to vote me in LoL over it. Voting me over a playstyle difference over me not overtly calling people scum when I'm clearly questioning people is weak.
I meant that I didn't think the difference between "has outright accused no one of being scum" and "has outright accused exactly one person of being scum, back on Day 1" was very much, certainly not enough to go "oh never mind Shalako did outright accuse someone of being scum one, forget it, I'm dropping the whole thing". Sorry for the confusion.
And dang right i'm hunting for things to go off of. Everybody should be hunting for things to go off of.
"Hunting", in that case, didn't mean scumhunting, but rather flinging everything you could at the wall and hoping something would stick. The accusation felt less like a genuine concern with my play and more like you stumbled across it and went "hey, here's a thing I can use to attack someone" in response to an accusation that you aren't calling people scum. Does that make more sense?
I didn't question why you didn't re-read DNA at the time because your pair reread ended with you saying you found nothing and I was way more focused on other things at the time.
I'm questioning it now because I wanted to see WHY you thought DNA was so townie you didn't bother reading him in LoL and it's a vague one-liner so i'm working backwards to see if your logic was for clearing DNA was sound in the first place since you mentioned DNA looking more suspicious in your eyesBeing a Notable Step Down.(Underlined here is the reason specifically for my timing).
You still haven't been clear at all with why his play D1-2 were fine.
DNA read like he had genuine concern for making sure scum were flushed out. His posts were a combination of good questions, reasonable accusations, and generally good ideas. He was wary of you defending him so hard rather than simply going with it, which I doubt anyone would have blamed him for. This (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205991.html#msg1205991) and this (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1206116.html#msg1206116) are generally-good posts in particular. His Major Day 2 (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1206937.html#msg1206937) post is also good, including thought-out opinions on and explanations for a lot of players. His Day 3 has been substantially different from that, as yourself, myself, and Serela have catalogued throughout the course of the day.
I'm not really sure how to address this query beyond this sort of explanation, so hopefully this is satisfactory.
The reverse psychology thing Shalako brought up about how caring about his commitment will 'lose us the game and is silly' is honestly rather confusing too, unlike Kilga who seems to be accepting Shalako's arguments, I don't understand why its ok for Shalako to avoid that questioning altogether and instead throw us a WIFOM and tell us not to think about it.
To be honest, I read it as Shalako admitting to being one of those types of players that holds their vote sacred and doesn't cast it unless they super-duper mean it, as if it's a sticky vote or something. I've never agreed with this playstyle - it runs contrary to my philosophy that people need to be held accountable for their actions for good scumhunting to get done - but I've seen it often enough from people in town slots that I have a tough time bringing myself to care about it in an in-game setting, instead simply grinding my teeth in private and debating whether a post-game playstyle discussion is worth the energy. If this isn't what Shalako meant, though, then clarification would be appreciated.
Vote for me is noted. Not particularly perturbed. I can only assume Patorikku didn't double-vote DNA (or Serela, I suppose) due to quickhammer concerns. I think the concerns that "anything exciting actually happens...around 3-11 AM EST" are humorously misguided, though. What overnight activity party did you witness last calendar night? <_<
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Lookit all them posts. Glad we got this extension!
I'm going to bed pretty soon, so I guess I can at least put the results of my reread out there. Based on interactions throughout the game:
* DNA/Shalako is the only scumpair less likely than Patorikku/Shalako
* DNA/Serela is plausible but not too likely
* DNA/Patorikku is not only plausible, but is actually the most likely candidate of the six possible scumpairs, and by a fair margin at that
I will provide justification for these after Shalako provides his promised analysis, but I figure getting the conclusions out can't hurt.
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Lookit all them posts. Glad we got this extension!
See, that's what I'm saying! No one's ever around and posting when I am! Do I have to deliberately stop watching the game in order for people to post?
Also, I'm kind of curious what your reasoning is on the DNA/me scumteam possibility, especially since now that we're in LYLO and I'm pushing him as my most promising scum candidate. I recognize what would make him a logical case from earlier in the game, though. Don't post it just 'cause I asked, though; I'd also like to hear what Shalako has to say on his analysis.
Anyway, 12 hours and 45 minutes to new deadline, folks. I'll make sure to pop in once or twice around three or four hours before deadline, if there's some last-minute concerns that need to be addressed. For now, I'm going to bed.
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Also, I'm kind of curious what your reasoning is on the DNA/me scumteam possibility, especially since now that we're in LYLO and I'm pushing him as my most promising scum candidate. I recognize what would make him a logical case from earlier in the game, though. Don't post it just 'cause I asked, though; I'd also like to hear what Shalako has to say on his analysis.
Small phrasing error; what I meant was closer to "I recognize what would make the two of us a logical scum-pair case."
And now bed.
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The fact that the two of you are going after each other right now was a consideration in my conclusion, yes.
Though I would really prefer to see Shalako's pairing analysis. >_>
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5 hours left! (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20150823T19&p0=%3A&msg=End+of+LYLO&font=hand&swk=1)
Rei Ryugazaki (1): Nagisa Hazuki
Serela (1): Nagisa Hazuki
Kilgamayan (1): Nagisa Hazuki
With 15 votes in play, 8 are needed to lynch.
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:| If people could not lurk through deadline, that'd be much appreciated.
I'm going to be in and out for pretty much the rest of the day, though I will still be able to pay more than enough attention to keep up with the game. Just don't expect immediate responses.
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I didn't really intend to claim so late, I was only doing so because I assumed Shalako didn't claim yet and wanted to push him to claim first because I had a heavy scumread over him back then. The flurry of activity over that significantly delayed my post which was why I claimed so late. Besides, I want to bring up that in all of my scum games I never had any problem conjuring a fakeclaim. With the bare minimum of VTs all flipped I am directly endangering my position by not inventing a claim.
Nagisa claiming that my points are fabricated is very awkward. Perhaps expectations on my play is higher because I have demonstrated myself as a capable player. But I am not attacking Nagisa for being confident in his reads, I am attacking him because he isn't elaborating on any of his reads, and his 'confidence' is not something I can infer from his posts because there has always been a great leap from deliberation->decision, and he tends to never review the interactions amongst the mislynches, which means his posts are very sheepish, and is something I find scummy.
I also tried rereading everything Shalakos posted up to this point and I can understand Kilgs argument that Shalakp could be a player who defaults to a very reactive and tunnelish playstyle. But I am still dubious because of his relative drop in activity and that is something very similar happened last game where Shalako is scum, I want some degree of reassurance before I decide who is scum between Serela and Shalako
Basically, because of how passive Nagisa is, he can essentially be paired with anybody as a scumteam. Now I can see a Patrorikku + Serela/Shalako scumteam being most likely. And kilgas involvement could swing either way as scum looking to get the final lynch done or town intent on solving the puzzle. But I think I still have a town lean on him ATM, and he's not a lynch I want today.
##1st Vote: Nagisa Hazuki
Either way, I think my position on Nagisa is pretty firm, let's put this down.
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Cut by 1
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Bluh.
What I got out of the DNA/Patorikku possible scumpair reread was that they spent very little of the game interacting with each other. They affirm townreads of each other a couple of times, there's a rather lackluster back-and-forth in these (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205991.html#msg1205991) two (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1206051.html#msg1206051) posts and...that's really about it, at least before Day 3. Here are my notes for DNA/PAtorikku over the course of the first two days (these were written to be simple statements of fact rather than opinions of post contents):
#50: Patorikku endorses DNA
#100: DNA is slightly off-put by Patorikku being more reactionary when compared to Raitaki being proactive but otherwise gives Patorikku a ringing town endorsement
#101: Patorikku affirms townread of DNA, but asks for explanation of DNA's townread of himself
#105: DNA explains his townread of Patorikku
#134: Patorikku acknowledged DNA when discussion his (Patorikku's) Raitaki read
#161: Patorikku expresses dissatisfaction with Dan's response to DNA's questions
#166: DNA affirms Patorikku townread
Patorikku did point out that they were after each other when I first brought this up, but the thing is that neither of them looked at the other very seriously at all until after Shalako had spent time on Day 3 grilling both of them to the point where it was pretty much impossible to continue to ignore each other. And even then, it takes a while to materialize, with some soft suspicion from Patorikku toward DNA here (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1208194.html#msg1208194) (and even then it's rather dwarfed by the pursuit of Serela in the same post).
My current problem is that even with this, I'm still stuck in a situation where Shalako has not actually posted much of anything in the way of opinions and explanations. I understand that weekends are tough, but if a time frame is given for these things (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1208400.html#msg1208400) and we've gone several hours beyond that time frame, it gets harder and harder to ignore. Serela's in a similar boat in that he hasn't said a word since voting for the extention despite his lone scumread providing a substantial amount of content since then. Where'd you go?
So here I am, back at Square One where everyone is scum. x( I'm not a huge fan of speaking this much about the details of my DNA/Patorikku scumpair reread before Shalako has returned to present anything, but presumably Shalako will be providing plenty more than just that (and if he doesn't, that's all the more reason to believe he's scum trying to skate by without providing many/any opinions).
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why did i even vote for the extend I swear to god
If it turns out Serela and Shalako are scum and they're intentionally lurking out to deadline for the night kill I'm gonna be so pissed.
I mean Shalako made his point on why he can't post much on the weekend but we're getting REALLY close to deadline here.
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I'm here,
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I honestly, seriously want to believe that this is a town slapfight between patrorikku and me. Because I do find his posts to be generally much more logically sound than anything Serela/Shalakp has put on the table. But his OMGUS vote on me after I cased him is very reactionary and the logic in that one was rather far fetched. I think I need something clarified from Nagisa;
1. Who do you think is the second scum? And why?
2. In our past game, I have also demonstrated that I am prone to slip ups, how does this one in particular makes me look scummy?
3. Your case on me was a very sudden and abrupt call, and was built only upon my case on you. Why is your vote not an OMGUS vote?
Answering these questions can greatly help my decision making, thanks.
Not getting how exactly Shalako has been grilling Nagisa and I to interact with one another. I can count discretely the situations when I have even considered Shalakos opinions as part of my casemaking, which were on D1 when he had a very bloated presence and on D3 over the claim dispute and when Kilga cites his points to attack me/prove Shalako is town lean for Kilg. Shalako has very limited elaboration for his logic throughout and I usually am not even confident that I can claim I 'get' his arguments due to how we apparently agree on different definitions of words. Hes just a very voltaile player I find difficult to handle.
Notably, indeed Serela has still been missing.
Cut by1
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Shalako, your questions this game throughout have all been very diffuse and brief. And also you do not really pursue them after players you have questioned had given you answers.
I am asking, aren't those questions mere filler then? You aren't really using those answers to build meaningful cases or pursue reads, and I want to know what yoj hope to achieve with such questioning you don't follow up upon
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Additonal question for Nagisa
4. You have acknowledged my early accusation that your arguments are relatively sheepish, then why have you still decided to follow through this style of posting?
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Little less than 2hr remaining
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Bluh.
What I got out of the DNA/Patorikku possible scumpair reread was that they spent very little of the game interacting with each other. They affirm townreads of each other a couple of times, there's a rather lackluster back-and-forth in these (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1205991.html#msg1205991) two (https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18766.msg1206051.html#msg1206051) posts and...that's really about it, at least before Day 3
Yea this is what I noticed, the lack of interactions between the two.
Off in Paranoid land are the possible scum pairs like Kilg/Rei for Kilg gunning off of Rei then dropping it completely with one vague line,
In a Vacuum Selery is clearly the scummiest with his current Actions/Vote/Scum suspicions. However as conditionary as it is that Kilg said he doesn't believe in Meta then used another players Meta (Shadow) as an example of why he doesn't distrust Selery I rather agree with it since i've had those games where it just doesn't "click"
At this time I'm confirming if there is a Beloved or not in the game, I don't know why no one has asked me if i've asked a question today or had any suggestions for questions so that's whats happening.
Nasagi has had overall very solid play and the whole Claim thing makes sense and how he went about it but my biggest beef with him is he's said he's going to re-read 3 people and so far he hasn't done it and absolutely nothing has come out of it.
Kilg Actions, suspicions have been pretty clearly investigative and while he's aggressive (everytime you question him he gets you back lol I love it)i'm convinced it's from a pro-town mindset (the why I hate C-37 post)
Rei is an absolute mess I didn't really intend to claim so late, I was only doing so because I assumed Shalako didn't claim yet and wanted to push him to claim first because I had a heavy scumread over him back then. The flurry of activity over that significantly delayed my post which was why I claimed so late. Besides, I want to bring up that in all of my scum games I never had any problem conjuring a fakeclaim. With the bare minimum of VTs all flipped I am directly endangering my position by not inventing a claim.
He's more concerned with his own well being and being viewed threat for claiming VT then he is with leading the town by the nose for some reason. We are also expected to belive he'd have no problem making up a fake-claim if he was scum when i'm a Know-it-All.
, I will bank it on Shalako because of his toxicity and sudden drop in activity.
But I am still dubious because of his relative drop in activity and that is something very similar happened last game where Shalako is scum,
He's also spent the day attacking me for not posting over the weekends (Hint I'm busy on the weekend)then uses an Emotional Plea about him being busy in Real Life
I don't buy that this whole I missed your claim, no I wasn't claiming because i'm VT and didn't want to paint a target on my back because i'm so concerned about ME
Shalako, your questions this game throughout have all been very diffuse and brief. And also you do not really pursue them after players you have questioned had given you answers.
I am asking, aren't those questions mere filler then? You aren't really using those answers to build meaningful cases or pursue reads, and I want to know what yoj hope to achieve with such questioning you don't follow up upon
I'd love for examples how me questioning Kilg has been diffuse and brief.
I also won't answer your leading second question.
##Vote Rei Ryugazaki
##Vote Rei Ryugazaki
##Vote Rei Ryugazaki
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Okay fine i'll answer the second question since I love talking about myself. Stop making me talk about myself you animal.
I'm good enough to be able to get info with my questions without boasting about how i'm God's Gift to Mafia and tearing others down. Sure they're "short" but I get results
@Shalako: You're...right, actually. Right now I haven't seen anything discriminating, and I wasn't really sure on how to get people to talk more about things other than the team captain election without blatantly trying to distract people from that, which happens to the focus of the D1 vote.
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Serela is who I'm most convinced is second scum. The amount of investment in Serela's reads in either direction seem to be purely gut, with some possible seeping when it comes to Serela's case on you. I'm willing to argue there's scum mirror behaviour overall from Serela than you, but the difference in playstyle has me holding you up to a bit of a higher standard.
That also leads into question 2, in which I just hold you up as a strong overall player. There's more than one slip up that I presented, though. The problem I found with these slips is that you seem to have referred to a query that I have no recollection of you making to me, or at least during D1. If that was a typo, then I apologize, but right now I can't find any reasoning that'd push my vote onto Shalako.
I had stated that I had some suspicion of your posts earlier in D3, though I will admit that a lot of it was pure speculation. I'm not in a position I can accurately argue the case right now, and I'll admit there was some OMGUS motivation behind my switch. That said, I don't feel your explanation on some points are fully satisfying, notably your role claim, because I still don't see why you would rather wait for Shalako than claim vanilla. Is it because you were concerned town would see it as "too safe?"
And I'm at least trying to jump off the sheepish playstyle, but if it appears like I'm still seeping, then I guess I'll have to be here when I'm not regularly here so I can actively participate in the game and not have everyone else post my exaCT thoughts on scummy behaviour before me.
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"Scum mirror" is probably mean to be "more scum". Dammit phone
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##Vote Rei Ryugazaki
##Vote Rei Ryugazaki
##Vote Rei Ryugazaki
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##Vote 1: Darkninjaabc
##Vote 2: Darkninjaabc
##Vote 3: Darkninjaabc
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Whelp, I'm taking off for the day then
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I look at the Shalako wall and I sigh very deeply.
You hold my attack on you for lack of content other than questioning because you are apparently very busy during weekends as scummy, when this is not a point that only I have brought up. This is an observation made ans generally agreed on by the rest of the playerbase, including Kilga whom you worship and love. There is a clear lack of mutual exclusivity in your logic.
In fact, being busy is an argument I was also employing and I am curious as to how vile and unsympathetic you are to my plight. Considering your D2 was even more lackluster than I do, I find the angle of which you are attacking me from is very confirmation bias heavy and ignores most mistakes which you have also done. You apparently is gnaring your teeth and antagonising me for being egocentric when I have hardly done so this game. Your vote does not feel like a logical deduction, it feels like a roaring vengeance fueled by your virtrol. l am not even aggravated, I am just pitying how toxicity is the only way you could express yourself.
Besides, my claim was only scummy because it was false associated with that I am deliberately withholding my claim, when that was never my initial intention. I have said it and I will say it again. I intended to claim right after everyone has done so. This is due to my belief a withheld claim can generate psychological pressure and produce more insightful content. The late timing was only a problem because the flurry of activity cropped up forced me to take a thorough reread of the game. I am more comfortable with claiming only after understanding the circumstances, it was as simple as that. I also bring to your attention that I have been feverishly trying to compensate for my inactivity and account for my missplay. If you still insist to scrutize me for not being capable of being completely devoted to mafia, when multiple other players have done even worse in this regard, just because you think I am the better player, I shall take this as a compliment.
Cut by 4
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Good job scum, I suppose.
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You apparently is gnaring your teeth and antagonising me for being egocentric when I have hardly done so this game.
You literally didn't claim because of self-concern.
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If you still insist to scrutize me for not being capable of being completely devoted to mafia, when multiple other players have done even worse in this regard, just because you think I am the better player, I shall take this as a compliment.
You should! I love how much you care about Mafia and how devoted you are.
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GG, scum win.
EDIT: I learned some additional things, like not introducing a lynchless/NKless Day 1 to keep the excitement in (though I did manage to eliminate RVS), and that I should give Town the additional power to void an NK in a 6-2 game, or make it a 7-2 game instead. I just wasn't sure 9 players would be feasible, given MoTK levels.
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(http://i61.tinypic.com/2el6qew.png) (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=49873196)
Girl power! (Generic Pixiv link warning)
gg folks, this was a lot of fun despite me being an internally panicky mess the entire time. Apologies to Shalako if I made you legitimately angry at any point on D1; despite being happy to irritate people when I play as scum, I wasn't intending to get as heated as I did. (That entire week was a very bad week for me in terms of stress.)
Also, as already stated in the scum QT, sympathies to Bard for the activity of this game. I had to constantly remind myself that I was scum and therefore inactivity was good. >_>;
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On ActionDan
I was accused during the game of breaking my own rules by killing ActionDan for not posting. Let me make clear that I did not kill ActionDan because he did not post. After he claimed the Night Talk power and to have a Post Restriction, I sent him a message requesting clarification on his behaviour, as I could not rhyme it with pro-win behaviour. Put simply, going against your wincon and confusing Town is trolling the game, and trolling is toxic behaviour.
Because ActionDan never replied to my message, and because I saw Town considering lynching ActionDan, I made the judgement call that I would not have Town mislynch because one player decided to be a dick and play counter to their win condition by lying about their post restriction and lying about their role power. That's unacceptable behaviour and I refuse to let that be the reason for a loss.
TL;DR, I modkilled ActionDan for breaking Rule #1 after giving him the benefit of the doubt. I understand I allowed "lie, cheat and deceive your peers", but that did not include playing counter to your win condition. I made the call that it's counter to enjoyment if you lose not because scum played well, but because one Townie played aggravatingly counter to their win condition.
In the end, I suppose Town did lose anyway, but that's a balance factor I'll look at closer. With Scum having NIGH ZERO power that directly supported them (Serela could become Beloved at the cost of giving Town Night Talk), I felt that three mislynches to win might be too much for them to pull off. I was severely wrong and for that, I sincerely apologise to Town for putting them in a hard situation.
Town powers were limited, but designed to help Town by giving them clarity about the game (Shalako could ask question and receive 100% accurate answers, so long as he didn't try to be a lie detector, cop or role checker) or by letting them completely bypass a Day event they felt were against Town.
For example, if DNA had chosen to NL or mislynch someone other than the guy with the highest votes, Day 3 would instead only allow unmovable votes in the first 24 hours and then another set of unmovable votes in the last 24 hours. While I think that's pro-Town (it forces people to make an immediate call, and the threat of vote at the end of the day as "pressurevote"), if Patorikku disagreed he had the power to void the entire Day event.
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I'll give my own endgame spiel after I'm back at home. So in like... 10 - 12 hours.
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I had no problems with the Dan modkill in the interest of fairness. It made us have to work just a little bit harder since he wasn't a free-and-easy LYLO mislynch anymore.
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?\_(ツ)_/?
Must feel crap to be misguided town, I know that feel though.
A tip to Shalako is to not drop a confident vote barrage when you aren't good at it. Especially in LyLo, when the other party is present, legitimately responding and nobody is announcing their intention to leave, all you did is just letting scum quickhammer and win while silencing me. I also enjoyed your passion regardless because it reminds me of how innocent I was and ready to sheep anyone who thinks I am town, its very cute. Let's both step our game up next time.
Kilga has also been devilishly clever in nudging town to the consensus that I am scummy without really specifying how, and letting others do your work for you, it became a bit obvious near the end that you are trying to buddy Shalako though near the end of your posts though, who admittedly was the player most bent on my lynch, to which I was like, 'well that townread seems to have came out of nowhere.' Good for you I was already under too much scrutiny the time to do anything about it. Well done.
too bad rei chan apparently can't be trusted.
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Sorry for the doublepost, mafia reflexes lol
?\_(ツ)_/?
Must feel crap to be misguided town, I know that feel though.
A tip to Shalako is to not drop a confident vote barrage when you aren't good at it. Especially in LyLo, when the other party is present, legitimately responding and nobody is announcing their intention to leave, all you did is just letting scum quickhammer and win while silencing me. I also enjoyed your passion regardless because it reminds me of how innocent I was when I first played mafia and ready to sheep anyone who thinks I am town, its very cute. Let's both step our game up next time.
Kilga has also been devilishly clever in nudging town to the consensus that I am scummy without really specifying how, and letting others do your work for you, it became a bit obvious near the end that you are trying to buddy Shalako though near the end of your posts though, who admittedly was the player most bent on my lynch, to which I was like, 'well that townread seems to have came out of nowhere.' Good for you I was already under too much scrutiny the time to do anything about it. Well done.
too bad rei chan apparently can't be trusted.
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Day 3 was a mess for me :C After I realized the extension had to be unanimous I was like "OH GOD WHY DID I VOTE FOR IT I JUST THOUGHT IT NEEDED TO BE A MAJORITY", I could have easily lurked out the last few hours safely without extending the day otherwise; whilst I did figure the extension wouldn't get my lynched even after things started looking bad, it would have been a much safer and more painless win.
Also here's the scum QT! It's mostly me talking to myself. http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/yVn7rXeAymea2
Yes I intentionally lurked the hell out of the last 24~ hours because me posting would have made my lynch was more likely; I was sorta backed into a corner where I had nothing to say that wouldn't suck.
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Mate you really gotta work on how condescending you are, even more so when your play is what made you get lynched not me sheeping a Scum when the non-interactions is something I brought up as is you not seeing me claim and not claiming.
Why did you decide to not claim again? Who were you gonna counter-claim as VT? How did you expect to claim VT after saying you weren't gonna claim because you could counter-claim someone?
I'll admit I did have a few moments where I really thought you were town (Your view on how TC forced you to lynch someone) but I'll learn to read you eventually ;)
End game I was literally suspicions of every one D: so that didn't help me any lol
In a Vacuum Selery is clearly the scummiest with his current Actions/Vote/Scum suspicions. However as conditionary as it is that Kilg said he doesn't believe in Meta then used another players Meta (Shadow) as an example of why he doesn't distrust Selery I rather agree with it since i've had those games where it just doesn't "click"
:blush:
I wasn't angry at all Kilg, despite how much people wanna label me as Toxic I'm simply playing the game and I don't get upset(I attack arguments not people) and I always enjoy sparing and think that's what makes game fun!
Celery did a great job of out winfoming and Kilg wow
Worth noting another solid Patorikku game and hope next game he posts more!
Yes I intentionally lurked the hell out of the last 24~ hours because me posting would have made my lynch was more likely; I was sorta backed into a corner where I had nothing to say that wouldn't suck.
GL on your next town game if you can't figure out who you wanna lynch/were involved in mislynches D:<
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Everyone's going to be involved in mislynches XD That's just something that happens.
As town I... usually won't decide to lurk for days. >.> Not after d1 at least.
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As town I... usually won't decide to lurk for days. >.> Not after d1 at least.
Serela you''ve won, you don't have to lie to people anymore!
This game's Day 1 was hilarious to watch, I enjoyed all the mafia players becoming anime characters. DNA played really good this game and I'm disappointed he got lynched for it but such is life.
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I think assuming the team captain will decide to NL is kind of situational, especially since there's no flip on D1 due to game mechanics, doing so is only going to be testing the patience of players and suicidal for the TC. Probably.
Scum also has a much better justification in their lurkstrat because of this inherent apathy generating mechanic too. I was honestly pretty irked after I got ignored as TC, so I was kind of participating only on and off after that point. It was only after Shalako got so misguided on D3 that I started getting somewhat pissed off and started responding seriously (and since my mantis cruiser died because flagship is a bitch).
Probably if to modify balance I would suggest a 9p setup instead, as you've mentioned. I feel that its very important town should have that buffer mislynch and scum gets another additional kill. Unlike what scums have worried about, I feel that theres painfully little NK analysis that could be done on a single death because he's the obvious townie and he also wasn't very active D2. The rest is probably fine.