Author Topic: Koakuma's Writer's Parlour ~ Have some tea and discuss fiction and writing here!  (Read 226130 times)


Well, this is kinda' bad. I don't know whether I want to use Mokou, or a Gensokyo OC.
[Facedesks.]

Again: what works best for the story you're planning?

Well, I can't think of anything that'd justify why Mokou would be there other than some plan of Kaguya's. More or less the same with said OC, though with a different character. Maybe Yukari got bored, or something. I want to use Mokou (Mainly 'cause I'm a Mokou fangirl), but I can't really think of a good reason.

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Well, this is kinda' bad. I don't know whether I want to use Mokou, or a Gensokyo OC.
[Facedesks.]

It depends. And I couldn't know without knowing the story.

Mokou is Mokou. You pick her, you have someone who is very much defined by her immortality. Interpretation varies from their, but she's often defined as being a loner type and by her relationship with Kaguya and Keine.

You pick an OC, and you get an OC. I'm told that OC's can work, but they are really dangerous.

As someone who uses Mokou a lot, I have to say that she is the best choice if you want a story where a normal character would die repeatedly. I follow the belief that in a story, events should only happen if they are exactly what you would expect to happen. For example, if an OC picks a fight with Yuka, the OC should probably die; because that is what I would expect to happen when a normal person picks a fight with Yuka. I also would expect the OC to be a normal person - no handy dandy plot armor. (warning: links to Tvtropes, which may cause lost hours.) For example, if the OC was created to be the center of the plot, I would assume a human OC would lose to Mystia, and a Youkai OC would be weaker or equal to Meiling. If your OC is created as a side character or to explain a plot point, the OC can be significantly more powerful. But generally speaking, I would not expect an OC to be very impressive in Gensokyo. naturally, this is not an overarching rule, and I tend to start flame wars with my opinions on writing, but it's a rule of thumb I tend to follow.

In addition to the rule of thumb, your OC should be treated no differently from the plot than any other character. If your OC can do it, other characters should be able to do it as well. The other characters in the story should react no differently to your OC at first than they would any other nameless character and should not befriend your OC unless they would befriend someone like your OC. You OC probably shouldn't have all the good ideas, or be the best at danmaku, or any of those things, and your OC probably shouldn't be anyones best friend because all the characters already have their circles of close friends worked out. For example, if your OC is friends with Cirno, she shouldn't be Cirno's best friend because Cirno barely knows your OC and has established ties to her other friends.

Basically, my rule of thumb is that any character in a story should be exactly what you would expect, and OCs are no different. If anything, if I were to make an OC, they would have quite a bit less protection and be on significantly less friendly terms with the canon characters than other canon characters, because my OC's would be very average and not have the connections to canon characters that the canon characters have to eachother.

These are the conditions under which I would consider writing an OC. You can write an OC however you want though, as fundamentally it's all up to you.

Well, I can't think of anything that'd justify why Mokou would be there other than some plan of Kaguya's. More or less the same with said OC, though with a different character. Maybe Yukari got bored, or something. I want to use Mokou (Mainly 'cause I'm a Mokou fangirl), but I can't really think of a good reason.

Heh. Have you read Mokou and Cirno Crossover into Pokemon?

As for the story, I'm set on writing  a self-insert where I end up having a character from Gensokyo staying with me for a while. It was a very weird dream I had at one point, and yes, the character was Mokou, before you ask. It's really the only idea I've had for anything Touhou-related that I could actually write, so I figured why not. Again, I more want to pick Mokou because of my fangirlishness, but at the same time I want to have a valid reason for her to be there, without being lazy about it. I didn't plan on much fighting taking place, mainly because it'd be rather short unless Mokou wasn't involved. I can't really say I've ever used plot armor, despite the numerous opportunities I've gotten to do so, not all of which were during fanfic writing, and I don't plan to.

On OCs, I would plan on writing her like I would any other character, really. She has her flaws, her strong points, and the things she's okay but not great at. Long stuff short, she's likely to be a Youkai or maybe (but not likely) a half-Youkai, and she's probably going to stay within reasonable rules. That is to say, she's not going to pick up something new and instantly know how to use it (like some people I've seen do in the past), or be invincible, or anything like that.

Also, Mokou and Cirno crossover into Pokemon?...... Yeah, no, I'll pass.
[Isn't a fan of Pokemon.]

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
As for the story, I'm set on writing  a self-insert where I end up having a character from Gensokyo staying with me for a while. It was a very weird dream I had at one point, and yes, the character was Mokou, before you ask. It's really the only idea I've had for anything Touhou-related that I could actually write, so I figured why not. Again, I more want to pick Mokou because of my fangirlishness, but at the same time I want to have a valid reason for her to be there, without being lazy about it. I didn't plan on much fighting taking place, mainly because it'd be rather short unless Mokou wasn't involved. I can't really say I've ever used plot armor, despite the numerous opportunities I've gotten to do so, not all of which were during fanfic writing, and I don't plan to.

On OCs, I would plan on writing her like I would any other character, really. She has her flaws, her strong points, and the things she's okay but not great at. Long stuff short, she's likely to be a Youkai or maybe (but not likely) a half-Youkai, and she's probably going to stay within reasonable rules. That is to say, she's not going to pick up something new and instantly know how to use it (like some people I've seen do in the past), or be invincible, or anything like that.

Also, Mokou and Cirno crossover into Pokemon?...... Yeah, no, I'll pass.
[Isn't a fan of Pokemon.]

A half youkai that travels around with Mokou...

Without knowing the plot, I could suggest Keine, with the reason for being there involving history alteration/research. She is the only character Mokou is fairly sociable with, and you can have Keine going just about anywhere if the reason is to collect material for her classes - She could go to Chireiden to learn about the history of hell, the youkai mountain to learn more about the outside world, Yuka's flower field to learn about plant biology, or Hakugyokurou to learn about death. She would probably be the perfect character to insert yourself into for what you're describing.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 01:32:55 AM by capt. h »

Well, originally, it was going to be something along the lines of "Gensokyo character gets lost in the outside world, ends up staying with me until finding a way back". However, I do like the idea of Keine staying around to do research...

...I also now want to make myself a half-Youkai, and not know it.
[Facedesks again.]

TAKE IT CACODEMON!!

  • OKAY THEN I'M A LEGAL AIDE
  • AND ERIN BROCKOVICH IS MY NAAAME
Yeah, don't. Explore language problems (it'd be amusing) and trying not to get them to run amok everywhere, kidnapping humans/"exterminating" youkai by beating them over the head with gohei/doing drive-bys.

...

I just realized that two of my stories - "Eientei (eventually the rest of Gensokyo) deals with a tar-black, destructive Ex-Rumia)" and "Koishi and Satori fight off a demon invasion" sound extremely similar to Imperfect Metamorphosis and The White Rose of Chireiden.

Except the former's Ex-Rumia is more like a predatory Eldritch Abomination in the vein of The Thing that wants to be left alone and the latter is more DooM-styled (Makai was getting invaded as well). And neither of them delve much into POLITICS!
Sonata of Scarlet Sunflowers, a Flandre x Yuuka story. | Laziness of Daemonic Wastrels, wherein The Dude, Frylock, HW Guy, and David Wong get their asses kicked in Gensokyo.  | T.O.U.H.O.U.: Land of Shadows, a S.T.A.L.K.E.R./Touhou crossover. | Abomination, a monster story.

Yeah, don't.
Don't what? The half-youkai bit is what I'm -guessing-, but...

TAKE IT CACODEMON!!

  • OKAY THEN I'M A LEGAL AIDE
  • AND ERIN BROCKOVICH IS MY NAAAME
Half-youkai bit. Most people are going to scream Mary Sue at it and stop reading it, bad enough it's an SI. I don't doubt your writing, but it'll be most people's reactions.
Sonata of Scarlet Sunflowers, a Flandre x Yuuka story. | Laziness of Daemonic Wastrels, wherein The Dude, Frylock, HW Guy, and David Wong get their asses kicked in Gensokyo.  | T.O.U.H.O.U.: Land of Shadows, a S.T.A.L.K.E.R./Touhou crossover. | Abomination, a monster story.

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
 
Don't what? The half-youkai bit is what I'm -guessing-, but...

Half-youkai bit. Most people are going to scream Mary Sue at it and stop reading it, bad enough it's an SI. I don't doubt your writing, but it'll be most people's reactions.

You know, Keine IS a half youkai.

It'd be infinitely more likely that I'd perceive myself as an Anti Sue (not that everyone else agrees, mind you), considering that's how I do act a lot of the time.
...Then again, useless info is useless, huh?

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
It'd be infinitely more likely that I'd perceive myself as an Anti Sue (not that everyone else agrees, mind you), considering that's how I do act a lot of the time.
...Then again, useless info is useless, huh?

Maybe I should rephrase. You wanted to make yourself a half-youkai. There is already a half-youkai in canon. Therefore, you can make yourself the canon half-youkai.

I can't honestly say I don't use self-inserts, if only because I consider every character I ever write that has any level of depth to be an insertion of myself into the character - they're all characterized by facets of my personality and my interpretations of how I would behave in their shoes. Thus, I'm kind of wondering why you don't use the canon character as your self insert, since you want to insert yourself into Gensokyo as a half youkai anyway.

Unless the issue is that you don't want to insert yourself as that particular canon character, in which case nevermind.

Incidentally, an author self insert into a canon character needs some tinkering to work. When using a canon self insert, Keine isn't you, you are Keine. You are a were-beast that teaches in the human village and creates history. But Keine isn't you, the author, and won't act like you would in the same situations. Half the fun and the creativity is figuring out the things that your canon self insert does fundamentally different that you would expect, as a product of being themselves rather than you.

EDIT: I was just told on the IRC that what I mean is "extensions of my personality".
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 02:38:05 AM by capt. h »

Bias Bus

  • It's unpleasent
  • *
  • if you're better than me
Erebus' key tips and tricks to writing OCs (in Touhou);

- First and foremost,  avoid pumping them full of cool powers and all that. I know it's tough to resist, you like giving your custom character cool attacks and shit (anyone who's played a game that has a custom character feature would relate), but giving your OC a broken power that equals to Yukari is an obvious no-no. If you really want to give them a power, try to aim for something small and give them reasonable limiters. Maybe they can tank magic attacks, but can't do it unless they have a certain amount of energy. Perhaps they were blessed with the ability to control wax but, they lose all resistance to fire and heat, maybe they can't produce their own wax unless they have it on hand?

It pays to be creative with it, but also not to let yourself go overboard. It sounds restricting, but with the right amount of thinking you can pull it off.

- Second, make them support characters, if you can. People read Touhou fanfiction to see their favorite Touhous doing shit. Having a story focus on someone who isn't (technically) a Touhou is a good way to get folks to not pay attention to your stuff. You'll need to hold off on using them in any arcs or side stories that focus solely on them until people get a feel for the OC and can ultimately stand being apart from their favorite touhous to let you do your thing. If you can pull this off with little to no bitching from the audience, then you know you've done well with an OC.

- Lastly, if you really want to make your OC the focus of things, then it's best that you try and make them interesting characters (not saying that you shouldn't do this regardless). If people are going to be focusing on someone who is not a Touhou, then you need to give them a reason to pay attention to them. Otherwise you just won't catch anyone's interest. And before you say anything, yes...background/support characters CAN be interesting. Give them flaws, personality quirks, a bad habit, a moe verbal tic like 'Pwheee!', some angst COULD help in this department, but it's best to avoid it.

I've used OCs for...god knows how long in most of my short stories and these are pretty much the rules I go by. Never seemed to get any flak for any OCs I've used since then. Also, there's the usual Mary Sue traits to look out for, but those go without saying and should be something you're well aware of regardless.

Seems this was mentioned before...fuck it, I'm letting this be known here anyhow since I'm the only prolific user of OCs as it is anyway. I use OCs most of the time, because sometimes...Gensokyo just doesn't have what I'm looking for so I turn to my own creativity to add more spice to the story I wish to write. like in Mystic Mutation, there were no chimera in Gensokyo when I started writing it (which was years before Nue came along) and I needed one as a plot point in the story...what did I do? Make one, of course.

There were no dinosaurs in Gensokyo either and I needed one to appear in the story. So I made T-rex loli as a result.
Spoiler:
Sometimes I want to write a bit of romance, but I hate yuri in Touhou, so I make an OC to help give me some room.

Sure, OCs can be a bit dicey to use, but they can also open up new doors of creativity.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2011, 11:35:27 AM by Fattybus »
No Math Zone - Tumblr (slight nsfw) | Legend of a Hot-Blooded Pig

"The only guy you know to draw fat Touhous." - Erebus

Erebus' key tips and tricks to writing OCs (in Touhou);

- First and foremost,  avoid pumping them full of cool powers and all that. I know it's tough to resist, you like giving your custom character cool attacks and shit (anyone who's played a game that has a custom character feature would relate), but giving your OC a broken power that equals to Yukari is an obvious no-no. If you really want to give them a power, try to aim for something small and give them reasonable limiters. Maybe they can tank magic attacks, but can't do it unless they have a certain amount of energy. Perhaps they were blessed with the ability to control wax but, they lose all resistance to fire and heat, maybe they can't produce their own wax unless they have it on hand?

It pays to be creative with it, but also not to let yourself go overboard. It sounds restricting, but with the right amount of thinking you can pull it off.

- Second, make them support characters, if you can. People read Touhou fanfiction to see their favorite Touhous doing shit. Having a story focus on someone who isn't (technically) a Touhou is a good way to get folks to not pay attention to your stuff. You'll need to hold off on using them in any arcs or side stories that focus solely on them until people get a feel for the OC and can ultimately stand being apart from their favorite touhous to let you do your thing. If you can pull this off with little to no bitching from the audience, then you know you've done well with an OC.

- Lastly, if you really want to make your OC the focus of things, then it's best that you try and make them interesting characters (not saying that you shouldn't do this regardless). If people are going to be focusing on someone who is not a Touhou, then you need to give them a reason to pay attention to them. Otherwise you just won't catch anyone's interest. And before you say anything, yes...background/support characters CAN be interesting. Give them flaws, personality quirks, a bad habit, a moe verbal tic like 'Pwheee!', some angst COULD help in this department, but it's best to avoid it.

I've used OCs for...god knows how long in most of my short stories and these are pretty much the rules I go by. Never seemed to get any flak for any OCs I've used since then. Also, there's the usual Mary Sue traits to look out for, but those go without saying and should be something you're well aware of regardless.

Seems this was mentioned before...fuck it, I'm letting this be known here anyhow since I'm the only prolific user of OCs as it is anyway. I use OCs most of the time, because sometimes...Gensokyo just doesn't have what I'm looking for so I turn to my own creativity to add more spice to the story I wish to write. like in Mystic Mutation, there were no chimera in Gensokyo when I started writing it (which was years before Nue came along) and I needed one as a plot point in the story...what did I do? Make one, of course.

There were no dinosaurs in Gensokyo either and I needed one to appear in the story. So I made T-rex loli as a result.
Spoiler:
Sometimes I want to write a bit of romance, but I hate yuri in Touhou, so I make an OC to help give me some room.

Sure, OCs can be a bit dicey to use, but they can also open up new doors of creativity.
YES! A basic guide to writing OCs! Why hasn't anyone done this before?  :getdown:

Crow's Dumping Ground of Art

"So I never have to worry what tomorrow will bring, because my faith is on solid rock; I am counting on God."

Maybe I should rephrase. You wanted to make yourself a half-youkai. There is already a half-youkai in canon. Therefore, you can make yourself the canon half-youkai.
True.
I can't honestly say I don't use self-inserts, if only because I consider every character I ever write that has any level of depth to be an insertion of myself into the character - they're all characterized by facets of my personality and my interpretations of how I would behave in their shoes. Thus, I'm kind of wondering why you don't use the canon character as your self insert, since you want to insert yourself into Gensokyo as a half youkai anyway.

Unless the issue is that you don't want to insert yourself as that particular canon character, in which case nevermind.
I'd rather not. The main reason I want to use an OC/self-insert is more or less because I'm bad at figuring out how canon characters would act in a given situation. Probably why writing characters I didn't make is hard for me. >>
...I just thought about what some of the people I know would say to that.
"So? Practice."
Erebus' key tips and tricks to writing OCs (in Touhou);

- First and foremost,  avoid pumping them full of cool powers and all that. I know it's tough to resist, you like giving your custom character cool attacks and shit (anyone who's played a game that has a custom character feature would relate), but giving your OC a broken power that equals to Yukari is an obvious no-no. If you really want to give them a power, try to aim for something small and give them reasonable limiters. Maybe they can tank magic attacks, but can't do it unless they have a certain amount of energy. Perhaps they were blessed with the ability to control wax but, they lose all resistance to fire and heat, maybe they can't produce their own wax unless they have it on hand?

It pays to be creative with it, but also not to let yourself go overboard. It sounds restricting, but with the right amount of thinking you can pull it off.
I was actually thinking about what powers I -did- want to use. I came up with these:
- Probably accelerated healing
- A limited control over water, maybe?
- Skill with either swords, a bow, or maybe a quarterstaff. I'm unsure which.
And hopefully it's not too limited and not too good. >>
- Second, make them support characters, if you can. People read Touhou fanfiction to see their favorite Touhous doing shit. Having a story focus on someone who isn't (technically) a Touhou is a good way to get folks to not pay attention to your stuff. You'll need to hold off on using them in any arcs or side stories that focus solely on them until people get a feel for the OC and can ultimately stand being apart from their favorite touhous to let you do your thing. If you can pull this off with little to no bitching from the audience, then you know you've done well with an OC.

- Lastly, if you really want to make your OC the focus of things, then it's best that you try and make them interesting characters (not saying that you shouldn't do this regardless). If people are going to be focusing on someone who is not a Touhou, then you need to give them a reason to pay attention to them. Otherwise you just won't catch anyone's interest. And before you say anything, yes...background/support characters CAN be interesting. Give them flaws, personality quirks, a bad habit, a moe verbal tic like 'Pwheee!', some angst COULD help in this department, but it's best to avoid it.
That was, more or less, why I wanted to tie my two plot ideas together, with the first part being mainly focused on either Mokou or Keine, most likely, and then the second part shifting focus more to OC/self-insert. The first bit would be both a bit of a test to see A) How well I'm doing, and B) To see how well OC/Self-insert is received.
...Or... Yeah, something like that.

Iced Fairy

  • So like if you try to hurt alkaza
  • *
  • I will set you on fire k'?
    • Daisukima Dan Blog
So apparently no one in any country can teach English worth a damn before the Senior year of college.  If you're lucky.

However there's actually a lot of literary theory out there that can be useful for getting ideas.  Narrative styles, wording techniques and characterization patterns that might turn on a little light bulb.

So here's a glossary of those terms : http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/lit_terms_A.html  I wouldn't suggest treating these as gospel.  After all the best works usually differ from the formula, but they're great for outlining.

I wouldn't suggest treating these as gospel.
I can't think of anything I -would- treat as gospel. But yeah, I'll take a look.

Esifex

  • Though the sun may set
  • *
  • It shall rise again
Totally tooting my own horn, here, but Fresh Faces in the Kaleidoscope was my entry in the 'Self-insert Prompt' for the Weekly Writing Challenge way back when. I had a lot of fun with tweaking it - for example, I am not a girl, though to make it flow with Touhou's canon better, I did a self gender-swap, and fiddled a bit with the personality. End result was a character heavily based enough on me that you could point at it and say 'yep, that's Esi,' but at the same time, had room to develop into a character of her own.

I addressed the issue of powerlevels by using Yukari as my plot coupon - she would be able to outfit Sara with the gear she would need to help her survive not just a feral youkai attack, but the wilderness itself. On top of that, her high empathy slowly evolves into raw telepathy, earning her a satori-like status as a minor youkai. Despite suddenly gaining magical mind-reading powers and being a quasi-youkai, Sara was still terribly weak - relying entirely on spellcards to be any manner of a threat because of how useless she was with a sword - and in fact was nowhere near as good as she thought she was. Yes, Yukari and Reimu end up having to pay attention to my wretched creation, but in my opinion (again, self-horn tooting) it was justified. Even though the story was told from Sara's perspective, she ended up becoming an antagonist to Gensokyo, and we all know who handles troublemakers. A potent troublemaker in that she was planning to willfully wreak havoc with her growing mind-powers, and essentially mind-rape the majority of the human village.

I'm operating under the assumption that you're not fully reading everything being linked to you, so I'll sum it up - Sara is yanked from the real world to Gensokyo by Yukari, originally looking for more breeding stock. Since Sara's life was in danger, Yukari pulled her along just to be a Good Samaritan. Exposed to the highly magical nature of Gensokyo, Sara's latent psychic nature - high empathy - begins developing into proper telepathy. Before she's clued in to this, Yukari feigns being disinterested in caretaking Sara anymore and dumps her outside the human village, conveniently in Koishi's path. At this point - like Erebus suggested - Sara becomes a supporting character for Koishi, using the full youkai as a sort of sounding board and role-model while Koishi drags her around by the hand (figuratively). Upon reaching the human village, Koishi leaves Sara to continue being a vagrant, and Sara ingratiates herself with the town guard because of the armor and sword Yukari had generated for her. The guard later organizes a hunt for a feral youkai that had been preying on their livestock, and requests Sara take point because of said armor and S'n'S. Sara inadvertently ruins her reputation with the guard by unleashing combined spellcards, causing her to not only attack the feral youkai but also some of the guards. Later, she reveals that she found out that she's developing telepathy, and suddenly the guard is suspicious of her. She decides to leave the village, but on the way out is accosted by three guardsmen. She fights them, again relying on dumb luck and spellcards to overpower them and escape the village. Yukari brings Koishi and Sara both back to Mayohiga and presses upon Koishi to train Sara in how to control her telepathy. After a short while (training montage! woo), Koishi and Yukari are both satisfied with Sara's progress and Yukari once again unleashes Sara upon Gensokyo. Sara, however, was still harboring resentment towards the town guard and wanted to explain her case, or at the very least, exact revenge on the guards. Koishi picks up on this and warns Yukari, who'd had suspicions of this, and Yukari goes to Reimu, and together confront Sara and Koishi, who in the intermittent time has befriended Sara after she explained herself and promised not to act vengefully. Reimu and Yukari don't hear this exchange, and instead Reimu launches directly into an attack and subdues both psychics. Yukari then wipes Sara's memories and gaps her over to Mangekyou, or, the MotK-verse, and just wipes Koishi's memories of the incident, to prevent Koishi from trying to find gaps in the boundaries between the worlds and leaving Gensokyo/trying to pursue Sara into Mangekyou/being a Wandering Koishi.

The End, except not really because now Sara is known as Esifex and is one of the Librarians and the continuing story can be read in the Librarian Stories :O

I actually -do- try to read the stuff people link to me. I don't always comment on it, but I do read it. Though, the part with Yukari erasing Sara's memory reminded me of a book I read. That one turned out... A bit better, to say the least.
I had a lot of fun with tweaking it - for example, I am not a girl, though to make it flow with Touhou's canon better, I did a self gender-swap, and fiddled a bit with the personality. End result was a character heavily based enough on me that you could point at it and say 'yep, that's Esi,' but at the same time, had room to develop into a character of her own.
I'm considering doing the same thing to myself (minus the gender-swap, though). I doubt I'd be a good character to read about as I am currently. >>

Alfred F. Jones

  • Estamos orgullosos del Batall?n Lincoln
  • *
  • y de la lucha que hizo por Madrid
I am now going to interrupt the current discussion with something entirely unrelated! :justasplanned:

The other day, I was talking to some writers on another site and talking about how to write fight scenes. One of them linked me to this and its page 2, but the link is currently dead. However, I still have the content, and so I shall repost it here, as the question of how to write action scenes comes up fairly often 'round these parts.



Writing Action Scenes (Part 1)

Action sequences and fight scenes are a necessary element of many genres of stories, but they are also tricky to write. In fact, some published authors write terrible action sequences.

Mistakes

Let?s begin by examining a passage from Eldest.
Quote from: Christopher Paolini, Eldest
    The monsters had the advantage of surprise and quickly cut down four men, forcing the rest of the warriors, men and dwarves alike, to cluster around Ajihad in an attempt to protect him. Swords and axes clashed as the groups pressed together. Light flashed from one of the Twins, and an Urgal fell, clutching the stump of his severed arm.

    For a minute, it seemed the defenders would be able to resist the Urgals, but then a swirl of motion disturbed the air, like a faint band of mist wrapping itself around the combatants. When it cleared, only four warriors were standing: Ajihad, the Twins, and Murtagh. The Urgals converged on them, blocking Eragon?s view as he stared with rising horror and fear. (p. 10)
    So, as you might have guessed, this is a poor action sequence. I could make a long list of why this is so, so I will.

Lack of detail.

?The monsters had the advantage of surprise and quickly cut down four men.? How? How were the men cut down? How many Urgals cut down four men? Did they cut down four men in an organized thrust of halberds? Did a bunch of them just run in with machetes? The point of a fight scene to convey the movement of the fight to the reader. My mental image of this line, as it is written is, ?Four Urgals step up together, raise their swords, and behead four men.? Real exciting.

?Swords and axes clashed as the groups pressed together, but then a swirl of motion disturbed the air, like a faint band of mist wrapping itself around the combatants. When it cleared, only four warriors were standing.? Have you ever watched one of those really old animated cartoons, like Tom and Jerry? Often when the characters got in a fight, you would see that cheesy dust cloud and an occasional limb, instead of the actual fight. This was for two reasons. Animating an actual fight is a lot of work, and animation was hard back then. And also because the animators thought some of the fighting was inappropriate for adults. It?s almost like this book was written in a really lazy way, and portraying actual combat would be too much work, or this book desperately wants to be a young adults' novel, which I guess it is.

Sentence Length

In a fight scene sentences should be kept short. More on this later.

Bad Writing for Plot Convenience

Bad tactics. For battle trained warriors, these people demonstrate a stunning lack of tactics. Since it should be obvious that the Urgals are trying to kill Ajihad his men shouldn?t be clustering around him. The Urgals start behind the men. So if Ajihad?s men really want to save him, they should form a line to block the Urgals, allowing Ajihad to run ahead and back to safety. But since Ajihad?s death was a plot device, it doesn?t matter.

Spacial inconsistency. ?The Urgals converged on them, blocking Eragon?s view.? As I recall, Ajihad was already surrounded by tons of men, dwarves, and Urgals. Why is it that only now Eragon?s view is bad? Because him not seeing Murtagh and the twins escape is another plot device.

Now, let?s address some of these points, and see how we might be able to fix them.

Detail

A fight scene is all about conveying detail, but a different kind of detail than normal description.

Consider:
Quote
    ?Jaecyn avoided the sword. The sword was pure steel, wrought in steamforges before the plague, and it was decorated with gold leaf and emeralds. Jaecyn attacked.?
Versus:
Quote
    ?Jaecyn avoided the sword. Jaecyn attacked.?
Which do we prefer? The first conveys more information, but at a high cost. The flow of the fight is ruined by the description. In a longer description of a fight, where the tempo is established, this would stop the action dead. This actually applies to more than just action sequences. Generally long blocks of description disrupt the story.

Now consider:
Quote
    ?Jaecyn avoided the sword. Jaecyn attacked.?
And then:
Quote
    ?Jaecyn shifted his torso right to avoid the stab, and cut at Lord Strent?s extended arm.?
Again, we prefer the second choice. Instead of using the vague terms ?avoid?,?attack? some of the actual movement is shown. This is the kind of detail that we need. However, this still isn?t where we want it.

Actors vs. Actions

When writing these scenes, verbs need to be attributed to the actors.

This has half of it:
Quote
    ?Jaecyn shifted his torso right to avoid the stab, and cut at Lord Strent?s extended arm.?
This is better:
Quote
    ?Lord Strent thrust his sword arm forward to stab. Jaecyn shifted his torso right to avoid the stab, and cut at Lord Strent?s extended arm.?
Now the action is actually attributed to someone, and it isn?t just mysteriously there. Now we have a problem, the sentences are long and clunky.

Even better:
Quote
   ?Lord Strent thrust his sword forward to stab. Jaecyn shifted his torso right to avoid the stab, and cut at the extended arm.?
For the purposes of imagining this scene, we only need to know Jaecyn shifted right, and not something slightly different and more specific. This cuts down on clunky-ness in the sentence. Further, now that the action is clearer, we don?t have to signal that an action is made to ?attack? or ?Evade? or such nonsense.
Quote
   ?Lord Strent thrust his sword forward. Jaecyn shifted right, and cut at the extended arm.?
This still isn?t perfect, but we will stop here for the moment. We will further refine this in part two of the article.

----

Writing Action Scenes (Part 2)

Action-Reaction

Fight scenes are nothing if not Action-Reaction. The name should be pretty self descriptive. We are pretty familiar with this concept already.
Quote
    Lord Strent thrust his sword forward. Jaecyn shifted right.
That was an action-reaction sentence.
Quote
    Jaecyn shifted right to avoid Lord Strent?s thrust.
That was not an action-reaction sentence, because we placed the reaction before the action. This is something you?ll want to avoid, because it disrupts flow. If you have a series of action-reaction sentences and then suddenly you pull a reaction-action things get thrown off. The reader should see the reason for the reaction before the reaction. Thus action-reaction.

Action-reaction plays an important role in portraying a fight. The person with action is implied to have the initiative in the fight, as the other person is reacting to his movements. When the direction of the battle switches, ie. someone takes the initiative you break the paragraph, and then continue with the action-reaction sequence.

Changing Initiative
Quote
    Strent chopped down. Jaecyn raised the chair, and caught the sword in the back of the chair. Strent raised his sword and tried again. The wood splintered, but this time the sword stuck in the chair. Jaecyn twisted the chair, trying to wrench Strent?s sword out of his hand.
Observe the first two action-reaction pieces. ?Strent chopped down. Jaecyn raised the chair? and ?Strent raised his sword and tried again. The wood splintered?. Even though in the second action-reaction, Jaecyn?s action isn?t explicitly stated, his action is implied. But then the underlined next sentence begins with an action by Jaecyn?he has gained the initiative here, and the following paragraph will involve Jaecyn?s actions and Lord Strent?s reactions.

Interruptions

This is another way initiative can be stolen. When the first person has the initiative, but is interrupted during his action.
Quote
    Jaecyn drew another three, but Strent chucked a china plate at Jaecyn. He ducked as the china exploded overhead.
Here Lord Strent has gained the initiative, he turned what was going to be Jaecyn?s action into his Action-Reaction. Jaecyn is forced to react to his interruption.

Caveats

There is a caveat here. For concurrent actions, the action-reaction model doesn?t exactly work. You?ll still want to start with the action of whoever has the initiative, even if they are happening at the same instant. This can help preserve flow.
Quote
    While Lord Strent swung, Jaecyn lunged forwards.
In the larger context of several action-reaction models, this doesn?t sound at all out of place. The important thing is to be mindful of the way words can change the time frame we view things in.
Quote
    Lord Strent cut, Jaecyn stabbed.
Sounds like they are taking turns.
Quote
    Lord Strent cut and Jaecyn stabbed.
Sounds more like they are acting in the same moment. I?ll use this to lead into a discussion of time flow.

Time

Time in fight scenes can be kind of tricky, because there are two interactions. On one hand, sentence and clause length functions as an indicator of time.
Quote
    He cut.
Sounds like it happened faster than
Quote
    He twisted his wrist in an elaborate circular motion to cut.
Doesn?t it? This is why the following is a bad passage:

Quote from: Christopher Paolini, Brisingr
    ?Out of the corner of one eye, Eragon watched as a humpbacked figure leaped toward him, extending its leaf-bladed sword so as to impale him. The world seemed to contract around the thin, narrow point; the tip glistened like a shard of crystal, each scratch a thread of quicksilver in the bright light of dawn.

    He only had time for one more spell before he would have to devote himself to stopping the Ra?zac from inserting the sword between his liver and kidneys. In desperation, he gave up trying to directly harm the Lethrblaka and instead cried, ?Garjzla, letta!?

    It was a crude spell, constructed in haste and poorly worded, yet it worked. The bulbous eyes of the Lethrblaka with the broken wing became a matched set of mirrors, each a perfect hemisphere, as Eragon?s magic reflected the light that otherwise would have entered the Lethrblaka?s pupils. Blind, the creature stumbled and flailed at the air in vain attempts to hit Saphira.

    Eragon spun the hawthorn staff in his hands and knocked aside the Ra?zac?s sword when it was less than an inch from his ribs. The Ra?zac landed in front of him and jutted out its neck. Eragon recoiled as a short, think beak appeared from within the depths of its food. The chitinous appendage snapped shut just short of its hood.? (p. 46)
Those two bold sentences are the Action and the Reaction. Remember, it is Action-Reaction, not Action-awholelotofotherstuffthatjustgetsintheway-Reaction. With so many words there, that felt like the world?s slowest leap and thrust, didn?t it? In fact, everything in this scene seems to happen in slow motion, as the Action-Reaction is constantly being delayed by words. Sentence length plays a big role in the perception of time. Any word that isn?t essential to the understanding of the scene should be cut, so that the action is crisp and clean, not cluttered. I?ll use that to lead into our discussion of description.

Description

Let?s revisit a but of that excerpt.

Quote
    ?Out of the corner of one eye, Eragon watched as a humpbacked figure leaped toward him, extending its leaf-bladed sword so as to impale him. The world seemed to contract around the thin, narrow point; the tip glistened like a shard of crystal, each scratch a thread of quicksilver in the bright light of dawn. ? (p. 46)

This is wrong. The description interrupts the narrative flow, is terrible, and isn?t appropriate for an action sequence. There are only two kinds of description that are appropriate in action sequences. There is the kind you would remember in the heat of action. Imagine you were in the middle of a bull run in Spain. What would you notice in the moment? Probably the flashes of red, the smell of sweat, and the shouting. In fact, these are the things that you can describe if you must. Color, smell, and sound. Perhaps feel, if appropriate. These are the things someone in the moment would be capable of observing. In the middle of a bull run, you won?t have time to compare the red of the headbands and cloaks to flowing blood and the lips of your lover. If you have that kind of time, it?s probably because a bull has trampled you, and you are dying. Poetic imagery isn?t for survivors.

The other kind of appropriate description is anything important to the reader?s understanding of the physical circumstances.
Quote
    Jaecyn drew another three, but Strent chucked a china plate at Jaecyn. He ducked as the china exploded overhead.
Here the description of china plate is acceptable as a description of the physical properties of the plate. It won?t simply clatter like a metal plate would.
Quote
    Jaecyn drew another three, but Strent chucked a china plate at Jaecyn. He ducked as the plate exploded overhead.
It could be argued that once you add the second paragraph you could remove the china descriptor, because the fragility of the plate is now implied. However, I kept it in as an indicator of status. As always, there are exceptions to rules that can be made.

Use the Environment

Far too often, fights just happen in generic open spaces, and the author gives no consideration to how terrain might affect a fight. The fight we read above from Brisingr is purported to be fought in a cave, but this is never an important fact. Are the characters? movements ever constrained due to the low space? Do people ever use chokepoints in tunnels to make sure they aren't double-teamed? No, no. There seems to be infinite space in this cave, because these enormous Godzilla-esque lizards are prancing around in it. Saphira is getting attacked by two Lethrblaka. If she backed into a narrow tunnel, only one would be able to fight her at a time.

You should always keep your setting in mind when choreographing a fight. High ground is useful for people who leverage that advantage. A fight on a staircase will only feel like a fight on a staircase if you keep aware of the inherent dangers present. One false step and you could tumble to your death.

Putting This Together

I?ll go through the process for writing a fight scene.

It?s important to keep your characters in mind, so I?ll give some background. Jaecyn has just returned from an exile imposed in large part by the Strent family. Although he is suspicious, he cannot afford to offend, so he attends a feast hosted by the Strents to ?celebrate? his return. Lord Strent has other ideas. Jaecyn fights with a smallsword, primarily used for quick thrusts. Lord Strent comes from a traditional school of sword fighting that favors using a cutting weapon to deliver a single fatal stroke. He uses a broader blade to cut. Jaecyn has the advantage of reach and quickness here. The battle takes place in a feast hall, so the long table will be the center piece of the action.

Quote
    Jaecyn was the only one in the hall. He sat at the head of the long table, across from the entrance. For the time, he enjoyed the food alone. Lord Strent strode into the room. Jaecyn saw the black scowl on his face, and stood up from his chair, alarmed. Lord Strent drew his sword, and now Jaecyn was sure. I can?t say I didn?t expect this.

    He approached from the right. Jaecyn circled, keeping the table between them. As they circled, Jaecyn got closer and closer to the doorway. He glanced at the open door. Lord Strent saw the look, and dashed for the doorway. Caught off guard, Jaecyn sprinted, but Strent got there first. Lord Strent cut, and Jaecyn had to slow and scramble back to avoid being hit. Strent slammed the door shut while Jaecyn regained his footing and drew his smallsword.

    ?Please let me leave,? said Jaecyn.

    ?I don?t think so.?

    Lord Strent charged, holding his sword low. Jaecyn rapidly backtracked. Strent swept his sword in an upward arc. Jaecyn braced; intercepted with the forte of his sword. His sword was nearly swept away as the cut swung past. Lord Strent rushed past, and turned to charge again. As Strent approached a second time, Jaecyn vaulted over the table, knocked over a jar of wine, and landed on the other side.

    ?Coward,? said Strent as he faced Jaecyn across the table.

    ?Better than dead, at any rate.?

    Strent tried to cross the table, but Jaecyn threatened. Strent cut, and Jaecyn stepped back as Strent bumped into the table. He lunged and thrust his sword forward. Jaecyn sidestepped, and struck Strent?s outstretched arm.

    ?Agh!?

    Strent grimaced, then grabbed a chair and lobbed it. Jaecyn hesitated. I should duck. Strent jumped onto the table, kicking aside several plates of fowl. The chair struck Jaecyn and he managed to avoid injuring impact by catching the chair. Strent hopped down and faced Jaecyn. Reeling slightly, Jaecyn took a step back. Strent chopped down. Raising the chair, Jaecyn caught the sword in the back. Strent raised his sword and tried again. The wood splintered, but this time the sword stuck in the chair.

    Jaecyn twisted the chair, trying to wrench the sword out of Strent?s hand. He twisted back and the sword broke free. He readied another attack, but Jaecyn pushed the splintered back of the chair into his stomach. He staggered, as the breath him. Jaecyn took this chance to dive across the table, flying into all manner of puddings and utensils.

    He landed with a half tumble and tried to ignore the broken piece of bowl he landed on. Standing and drawing three daggers, he threw them. Strent roared as one glanced off his forehead and left a long cut. Another struck his left shoulder, and stuck.

    Jaecyn drew another three, but Strent chucked a china plate at Jaecyn. Jaecyn ducked as china exploded overhead. By the time he got up Lord Strent was already across the table, scattering salad bowls in his wake. Jaecyn lost his composure, he panicked, there wasn?t enough time to think.

    Snarling, Strent cut vertically. Jaecyn tried to sidestep, but there was no space. As the stroke bore down Jaecyn was forced to block, and he was driven to his knees. Strent swung at Jaecyn?s neck. Jaecyn tumbled backwards and away.

    ?Why are you trying to kill me??

    ?You murdered my son!?

    ?It, it was an unfortunate accident, for all of us.?

    ?This?ll be an accident too, you bastard.?

    Lord Strent charged. Stubborn. He wants to deliver the deathstroke. Jaecyn grabbed a heavy cauldron and flung it in his path. There was a flash and a crunch, and Strent was on the floor screaming as the hot soup scalded him. Jaecyn jumped forward, landed on Strent?s stomach. Amid the soup he saw a bulging adam?s apple and slashed at it. Blood ruptured from beneath the covering of soup as Strent gurgled.

    When Jaecyn finally stood, the blood intermingled with the overturned soup. The red blended and swirled in the soft cream. He breathed heavily, trying to regain his composure, but as he breathed in the savory smell of the soup the sharp stench of blood overwhelmed. He held his breath, trying to avoid it, but it was too much. He heaved up the meal he had just eaten. He fell to his knees in exhaustion. And there was Lord Strent, dead, amid what had been a perfectly good clam chowder.


I think my favourite part was "Poetic imagery isn?t for survivors. " :V

Anyway, this isn't perfect, but I think it should serve as some kind of placeholder answer to those people who ask how to write action scenes, at least!

nintendonut888

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Ooh, interesting! I may just have to give this a more thorough read-through for when I need it.
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Iced Fairy

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Indeed.  Some good stuff there.  I'll have to review it.

Very informative and useful. I haven't really written a lot of action-y stuff, but that's still helpful information to keep in mind for the future.

Thanks, Ruro. That's a great help. By any chance, will you also post part 2 as well? I'd like to see the rest of it if at all possible.
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Yuyuko Yakumo

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I'm terrible at action sequences, so I'm glad you posted that. I'll try to put some of these into practice.
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Thanks, Ruro. That's a great help. By any chance, will you also post part 2 as well? I'd like to see the rest of it if at all possible.
It's there, I just didn't want to split it into two posts. Beginning with Action-Reaction.

It's there, I just didn't want to split it into two posts. Beginning with Action-Reaction.

Oh, okay. Thanks a lot, then.
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