Moriya Shrine Mafia II (Day 5)

[PX]

I only voted Affinity as a joke, since I forgot about him when I joke voted you. Also, I was just commenting at the end that he was mafia last game, so my vote would most likely be wrong *shrug*

So this is serious votes now? ....Well I have no idea, I'll just keep the joke vote until I can vote someone with definite certainty.

I was just correcting Rou's wrong assumption, since he accused me of choosing Affinity's cause he was a good player.

As for keeping my vote on Affinity, well, I guess I can unvote...

##Unvote: Affinity

As to huhwhat, I'm passive because, well, I'm not really good at being aggressive. Sigh.

As for me, I have finals this week, I got kicked out of my room so relatives can sleep in there, my house is fricken cold as hell, and most of these posts come when I'm either sleeping or at school. Speaking of which, I got to go to school now, so I'll be back.

[Bardiche]

In general, I can't see scum [or indeed scumteam] letting a buddy get away with spouting this sort of nonsense

Roukan, are you clearing Schezo based on WIFOM. Why are you doing this Roukan. Why are you attacking my bastion of sanity by going so derp. I mean, really, shit, Roukan, what?


For reVelske: the reason I think you're being a jerk about everything is because you come in going what basically amounts to "This current discussion is crap, and I am too good to participate in that". Presenting yourself as being better than others will always make you come off as a prick, no matter how well-intentioned you may be. Day1 bad reasons is part of the game, and saying, "I'm too good to participate in that part of the game" sours the mood towards you. Later saying you don't enjoy that part of the game explains it somewhat, but it doesn't excuse it. Does that sufficiently answer you?

Well you seem to have some issue against me "cheerleading" the bandwagons, and I do not quite understand your "Blatantly disregard for town's effort" comment.

Yes. On D1, you expressed agreement with the reasons for voting Schezo. You refused to vote him, based on giving him the newbie pass and, in your own words, refusal to lynch a newbie before he gets to enjoy the game... and egregiously, you've abandoned that sentiment since. What changed since D1 and right now that you suddenly want to "lynch the newbie"?



Less related to standing case:
"Blatant disregard for town effort" refers to calling our attempts to make something of D1 to be "shit flinging", which doesn't have any positive connotations and some of us want to play the game for fun, not for our efforts to be downgraded by some petty jerk who expresses himself as though he thinks he's better than the rest of us.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Roukan, are you clearing Schezo based on WIFOM. Why are you doing this Roukan. Why are you attacking my bastion of sanity by going so derp. I mean, really, shit, Roukan, what?

I'm going to admit that reasoning isn't enough on its own especially given his lack of productivity elsewhere, but I can't get over the speed of that wagon. It's just plain unnatural, and I'm convinced there's at least one, maybe even two scum on that wagon. [My suspicions would be Hourai and PX, roughly in that order.]

[reVelske]

@Bard: Fair enough. As mentioned, it's a matter of moral, same with how I refuse to lie in a game of Mafia, but I doubt people here would believe me for that.

As for voting Schezo, did I not mention how the no-newbie-lynch policy only applies to day one? If not, well, that's the case, the most I'd be willing to do is pressure them with votes to hope for a scumslip/bad roleclaim, in the previous scenario, it would've been more decisive than "pressure", so I chose not to do it. And yes, killing a newbie off on Day One would probably kill all the fun for them, considering how the game only really start from Day Two IMHO, I'd imagine it'd be rather unpleasant for them to get lynched so early simply for being newbie.

And as for shit flinging, I'll reword it as "free-trade of insubstantial accusations" then? *shrugs* I simply cannot hide my dislike for it. But no, I don't look down upon anybody who participate them, as explained.

I'm going to admit that reasoning isn't enough on its own especially given his lack of productivity elsewhere, but I can't get over the speed of that wagon. It's just plain unnatural, and I'm convinced there's at least one, maybe even two scum on that wagon. [My suspicions would be Hourai and PX, roughly in that order.]

That seem like one hell of a far-fetched thing to be convinced of. Why would the speed of the wagon-building affect the possibly of scum-presence? Especially considering how each of the voter has reasoned their action and the suspicions concerning Schezo were lost to no-one at that stage of the game. If anything, I'd have said that at least one scum is on Bob's wagon, considering he appears to be far more experienced than Schezo with the game and could potentially be more of a threat to the scums later in the game, a newbie like Schezo should be of absolutely no threat to them aside from being an unpredictable wildcard.

[Bardiche]

And why those two, out of all people? Out of all people you pick two of the newbies, Rou.

@reV: Raincheck on response, no time.

[Vibri]

reV: The "shit-flinging" during day 1 forms the basis of the entire game and your complete non-participation in it does not make you look good.  Handwaving it away by saying "well I don't like doing it" does not make you look good either.  You've said yourself that the discussion is important and that analyzing posts and ideas from day 1 is useful for the town.  So basically, you don't like doing the thing that helps the town find scum.  Awesome, thanks.  To me your rationalization just sounds like "I'm afraid of putting myself into the game early on because I might make a mistake and get lynched."  Hey, I wouldn't like getting lynched D1 as scum either.

I don't really know how to make my argument any clearer.  Abstaining from doing things that benefit the town makes you look like scum.  Spending all of D1 and half of D2 saying "I will not scumhunt now" makes you look like scum.  Referring to everyone's arguments as "shit-flinging" makes you look like an asshole.  I'd work on both of those things next time you play.

Oh you people say that now, but I frigging bet you it would've bit me in the ass later with some crap like "reV refused to post anything until he was pressured, clearly he had every intention to lurk the entire game, oh so scummy."

in case you haven't been paying attention that is exactly what is happening right now, sooooo

aw don't cut me bro

As for voting Schezo, did I not mention how the no-newbie-lynch policy only applies to day one? If not, well, that's the case, the most I'd be willing to do is pressure them with votes to hope for a scumslip/bad roleclaim, in the previous scenario, it would've been more decisive than "pressure", so I chose not to do it. And yes, killing a newbie off on Day One would probably kill all the fun for them, considering how the game only really start from Day Two IMHO, I'd imagine it'd be rather unpleasant for them to get lynched so early simply for being newbie.

Uh what
So basically you avoided voting for someone you claim to think is scum and instead let the town lynch someone you did not think was scum?  Wow good job dude that doesn't make you look completely anti-town or anything
Like, what? "No guys I totally did a bunch of scumhunting but I kept it to myself because it would have been mean to say it!!!" that isn't how the game works, I don't even know what to say to that.  Except the thing I already said (you're bad, get dead)

[FinnKaenbyou]

And why those two, out of all people? Out of all people you pick two of the newbies, Rou.

Hourai's absolutely brutal tunnel vision in combination with absolutely no worthwhile logic. His thought process is honestly 'maybe Schezo's just pretending to be bad!'. Combine that with his 'hey disregard everything I said d1 okay' request and D1 attitude which pissed me off, and I am unimpressed.

PX has offered no discussion on the current affairs and has wasted all his time pressing at another newbie, offering nothing useful to the conversation, being blatantly hypocritical, and most interesting appears to have forgotten entirely about his opinion on Schezo today. He picked up the case yesterday to bring it to L-3 and then...sort of disappeared.

Affinity is the other big member of the rush mob, and there's nothing I can really find with him that's so clear-cut. If Schezo is Town and Scum!Aff was on Schezo to make it a two-Town-horse race, why the need to cement himself as the last vote on Bob and bring more potential suspicion? Besides that he's pressing people and asking questions, two things which those mentioned above aren't really doing at all.

[reVelske]

reV: The "shit-flinging" during day 1 forms the basis of the entire game and your complete non-participation in it does not make you look good.  Handwaving it away by saying "well I don't like doing it" does not make you look good either.  You've said yourself that the discussion is important and that analyzing posts and ideas from day 1 is useful for the town.  So basically, you don't like doing the thing that helps the town find scum.  Awesome, thanks.  To me your rationalization just sounds like "I'm afraid of putting myself into the game early on because I might make a mistake and get lynched."  Hey, I wouldn't like getting lynched D1 as scum either.

How I look based on my moral choice is irrelevant to me, this is who I am, this is how I play, I see myself more than capable of making up for it after Day One (again, perhaps not as easily in a new environment such as MOTK, but I'm working on it), if my action mistranslates to something completely erroneous and absolutely warrants a lynch (which it doesn't unless you really got nothing else to go on), then that's just too darn unfortunate.

Abstaining from doing things that benefit the town makes you look like scum. Spending all of D1 and half of D2 saying "I will not scumhunt now" makes you look like scum.  Referring to everyone's arguments as "shit-flinging" makes you look like an asshole.  I'd work on both of those things next time you play.

I'm afraid nothing will change, I play how I play, I have no need to put on a deceiving persona just to convince people that I am of a certain alignment when I have perfectly good reasons for doing what I do, even the supposed asshattery.

in case you haven't been paying attention that is exactly what is happening right now, sooooo

In reality, I went on the scumhunt at my own pace when the time allowed me to. Don't you think it would've been worse if I brushed aside all the questions and suspicions without much of an explanation and went on to attack others after a simple apology? Wouldn't it look more like I'm desperately trying to take the pressure off myself by redirecting attention to others?

So basically you avoided voting for someone you claim to think is scum and instead let the town lynch someone you did not think was scum?  Wow good job dude that doesn't make you look completely anti-town or anything

Good job over-simplifying it. I don't judge people as "scum" and "not-scum" on Day One unless there are some convincing evidence. They are nothing but gut feelings on weak reasoning that I'd be perfectly willing to discard (not to mention how it was rather impossible to turn the situation around in the mentioned scenario, and things weren't set in stone by the time I went to bed and it was a little too late when i got up). And as stated, there is no bad lynch on Day One unless it's a PR, so even a vanilla death is tolerable, a town lynch will only help to fuel my suspicion on people who participated in the lynching, eg. you.

"No guys I totally did a bunch of scumhunting but I kept it to myself because it would have been mean to say it!!!"

Woo I like that example.

Except I really didn't do much on Day One, and it was a god damn weekend, assuming you have a job, you should know how much that meant! And no, sorry, not prioritizing Mafia game over chillaxing and housework, especially when it's just Day One and you smart individuals are surely more than capable of handling things on your own~

that isn't how the game works, I don't even know what to say to that.  Except the thing I already said (you're bad, get dead)

Again, that isn't how the game works FOR YOU. I'm sure we all value ourselves and the game differently.

Oh and...

[reVelske]

And in case it's not obvious, this reV-asshattery bashing isn't going to get us and the town anywhere, it sure feels like I'm busy writing an autobiography here. Rather look at the others perhaps? Or is this really the best "scumhunting" you can do on the second day?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

@ Bard: I'm pretty sure I already stated that I wasn't really intended to rolefish so much as just point out its existance (since somebody was going to do so eventually). That said, I don't agree with your implication that I spent the entirety of D1 hammering on Bob for rolefishing - sure, it was how the case got off the ground, but I did not actually spend the rest of the day assaulting Bob over rolefishing issues like you say. While I did find the rolefishing scummy, I mainly kept my vote on him because of how he followed it up with an OMGUS on Pesco and failed to explain it until prodded, which looked pretty argh to me. Most of the other times I brought up his rolefishing in the day were mainly responses to people questioning me about my actions during the original vote. That said, I don't really see how the case on Bob was any worse than the other options on that day. I did consider switching to Hourai since he was starting to look worse than Bob around the time of my #112, but I did not really feel comfortable doing so because it would tie the wagons and I was a bit wary of how awkwardly fast the Schezo wagon was springing up.

However, after a re-read, I do not like Rou for actually doing what Bard accused me of doing D1 as far as Bob rolefishing complaints go, especially considering he barely even gave any other of his D1 suspects more than a single sentence (which looks rather unconvincing) and just continuously went after Bob over the rolefishing issues. Even the post where he first properly jumps on Bob wagon isn't that good, he misreps Doll's jokevotes and parrots what has already been said about Bard's role being a nulltell before jumping on Bob without actually adding anything new to the case beyond some shakily-reasoned meta. His constant defense of Schezo does not look good either considering how poorly he explained it and how much the reasons border on WIFOM (Schezo wasn't actually -that- horrible D1, using the possibility of buddies to clear him as town is argh), and yet he continues to seem completely convinced Schezo is town to the extent that he is completely ignoring the wagon that flipped town in favor of a speed-wagon which never flipped. Sure, I'm not going to deny that the way the Schezo wagon grew looked rather shaky, but it seems a little bit off for Rou to suddenly be throwing around theories such as "two scum were probably on the Schezo wagon" when we don't even know Schezo's alignment yet. After all, it's not completely possible for a couple townies who thought alike to appear and post something around the same time, once you think about it.

...Actually, considering that I'm still not particularly fond of Schezo at this point either (though I guess a town/town struggle between him and Hourai still looks possible), I think Rou's awkward interactions with him and constant tunneling on the Bob case are enough to earn my vote over reVelske, since as horrible has reV was D1 been he is at least trying to produce now. So Rou, what do you think of the people on the flipped Bob wagon which you have been ignoring so much this day?

##Unvote
##Vote Roukanken

Speaking of reV, I'm feeling a little bit better about him now that he's producing (though his refusal to D1 vote Schezo is still a little off), but after his initial vote he reverted to defending himself. It feels like he's talking himself into his own grave, and I want to see him produce more than a constant defense again. He did it for one post, why can't he do it now? Though, he was actually wrong about Rou being the first on the Bob wagon (Rou only pops up first on the votecount because of a jokevote, he was actually the third on), and the passes he gives Rou while bashing me, Pesco and VgT seems kind of undeserved.

Also,

I refuse to lie in a game of Mafia

So reV, what's your alignment? :V

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Suddenly, fifty hours later:

143 - Besides the idea that Bob/Schezo is a Town/Town wagon? That is a pretty good reason for scum!Hourai to put his vote there.

oh hey i missed this

Yeah, I was being kind of dumb when I gave Hourai that pass now that I re-think it over. <_< I think I'll re-read him later today since I'm not really sure where I stand on him.

[Vibri]

And in case it's not obvious, this reV-asshattery bashing isn't going to get us and the town anywhere, it sure feels like I'm busy writing an autobiography here. Rather look at the others perhaps? Or is this really the best "scumhunting" you can do on the second day?

my brain hurts
OK look I'm not going to dig at you anymore, because I think your words and actions pretty much speak for themselves at this point.  My vote's staying where it is because you're the scummiest person to me.  Since you no longer have anything to respond to you're free to take the initiative and post about people other than yourself, so please do that.  Thanks in advance!

Nnnot really following the discussion on the Schezo wagon.  Rou's argument is that scum started a second wagon while Bob's was going on for some reason?  Given that Bob flipped town, why would they want another wagon to start up?

First things first, despite the pressure I put on him yesterday, I'm beginning to think of Hourai as town, because I cannot possibly think of a reason scum would want to park their vote on Schezo at that point if they knew Bob would flip town.

What would you predict scum would have done, then?  You're clearing all the weird stuff Hourai has done because if he did that thing as a scum player, it would be weird.  I don't really follow.  Relatedly:

Hourai: Remember that one time when people called you scummy and voted for you and then you haven't posted in the thread since?  That sure was cool!  Please come back!

Robotic Doll: You kind of haven't done anything this game, so that's weird.  Mostly you've just been cheerleading and responding to Hourai and reV , who are my two top picks for scum, so that's kind of a Thing.  You should probably, like, give some opinions on guys that are based on things that have been posted in the thread instead of wishy-washy gut feelings without a vote to back them up.

man shoot huh what don't cut me to realize the thing I was about to tell you before I told you it.  come on man.  come               ON

[FinnKaenbyou]

However, after a re-read, I do not like Rou for actually doing what Bard accused me of doing D1 as far as Bob rolefishing complaints go,

I...have no idea what you are accusing me of here. My response to Bard's publicity was

Bard's role being public knowledge is a nulltell. Bastard mod, doesn't specify whether he's town/scum, we're wasting time talking about it, blah blah blah.

Even then, given that by this point it was already a matter of discussion I felt the need to say something, even if that something was 'we shouldn't be wasting time on this'.

it seems a little bit off for Rou to suddenly be throwing around theories such as "two scum were probably on the Schezo wagon" when we don't even know Schezo's alignment yet. After all, it's not completely possible for a couple townies who thought alike to appear and post something around the same time, once you think about it.

I assume you mean 'not completely impossible' here, but besides that, the odds of four townies conveniently coming to the same conclusion and posting within three hours of each other are so low I'm not willing to believe there isn't at least one scum jumping on for good measure, especially since PX and Hourai did so in sentence-long posts basically saying 'yeah, what Affinity said'.
And again, 'one, maybe even two' means more likely one.

So Rou, what do you think of the people on the flipped Bob wagon which you have been ignoring so much this day?

Alright then.

HW - Besides the point Bard raised about 'HW brought up the Bard PR before Bob did and then called out Bob for bringing up the Bard PR', I am honestly not seeing much wrong with huh what. I admit there's a slight shiftiness but it's entirely gut reads and unless something more solid comes up I'm not going to chase him.

VgT - Honestly? I like VgT. He's consise, and I agree with just about everything he says.

Schezo - Is admittedly beginning to look worse and worse as D2 goes on. I am still adamant that scum would not press that hard and fast if Schezo was among them, and I find it difficult to believe all four of the members of the quick wagon are Town.

Affinity - Again, my idea with Affinity is that if he was scum he'd know Bob was Town, and therefore he'd have no reason to draw attention to himself by switching over to him at the last moment. This argument doesn't hold if Schezo is scum, but I've already said why I don't think that's happening about a dozen times.

Rou's argument is that scum started a second wagon while Bob's was going on for some reason?  Given that Bob flipped town, why would they want another wagon to start up?

Reduce discussion to a two-horse race, turn it into a dichotomy of 'Vote This Townie Or Vote This Other Townie'. One wagon on its own leads to too much risk of someone who disagrees putting a vote on scum, so pressing town/town is practically a distraction.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I...have no idea what you are accusing me of here. My response to Bard's publicity was
quote
Even then, given that by this point it was already a matter of discussion I felt the need to say something, even if that something was 'we shouldn't be wasting time on this'.

Basically, from what I understood of Bardiche's post, his case on me is "huh what rolefished, then constantly slammed Bob for the rest of the day with a poor case revolving entirely around his rolefishing" (which I don't think is true as I already explained when responding to Bard, but nevermind that). You did the latter half of that, though I suppose it's my fault for not specifying the hypocrisy part didn't apply here.

Will respond to the other stuff and do my Hourai re-read eventually, there are other things I should be doing at the moment but I wanted to at least get this out to avoid confusion regarding my current vote.

[Hanged Hourai]

honestly the way you're going at it like you had some intense personal revelation N1 just makes me think you have some kinda outside influence that told you to shape up.  An influence like the other members of the scum team am I right

Yeah. You got me. Well played. I admit it. I admit it everyone.
I found the wiki.

Hourai, PX, and Doll honestly need to gather their opinions, analyse why they think someone's scum and come out with solid reasoning

If my opinion wasn't clear before, let me say it now.

I am definitely suspicious about reV and Schezo being scum buddies.

D1, we see reV admit to his lurking, and Schezo says that he'll look for his reply later.
Wait-and-see, as said before, lets scum lead the game, which would be exactly what he wants.


And for my opinions on other players:
I am suspicious of reV definitely. Here's how the scenario works out in my head

D1, we see reV admit to lurking and then Schezo defends him.
A lot of people get really suspicious and start to voice their opinions on him being scum.
Then at the end of D1, we see Pesco get suspicious and voice his dislike for him.
And Pesco is a strong player. It would be dumb to nightkill a good player who clearly voiced his opinions about reV being scum, so he went and killed the player who was suspicious, yet strong. A preemptive strike.

As for other players, Doll and PX really haven't contributed anything to the game. So I have my eye there.

Huh what and VgT have been very pro-town this game, calling out people and going hunting. So I have some faith in them.

Also, we shan't forget about Neo's empty roll, which could be decreasing our odds of catching a scum.

Remember that one time when people called you scummy and voted for you and then you haven't posted in the thread since?  That sure was cool!  Please come back!

T_T I go to bed at nine, and I wake up at 5:30, then I go to school until 3. Please don't bash my schedule.

[Doll.S CUBE]

Well, it seems I can't think straight today. I really can't find anything that isn't already said and I need to prepare for a test today.

So here's a summary of what I think:

I agree with what Rev said about not accusing senselessly but yeah, he really shouldn't be a jerk on it, it just rubs people the wrong way. To those wondering why I think Hourai's town, It's his first post in D2 that really convinced me but I got to admit that him playing the newbie card didn't really help, also Schezo is just a bit suspicious to me with what I think is a panicky defense. Roukan reason against Hourai is somewhat meh with his 'I acted like this when I was scum, so he must be scum' mentality.

Also, to those that will be asking why I didn't vote for Schezo in near the end of D1 if I thought his defense was suspicious, it's because my reasoning is wonky and like I said, I agree with Rev in that I don't want to throw votes senselessly. (Unless it's a jokevote )

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Sigh, this is why I hate posting something long.

Will get back to you guys sometime tonight, maybe.

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.

ARRRGGG!!!

[Schezo]

reVelske your actions have drawn more attention to yourself just because of your behavior and attitude from day one then say Doll and PX and that seems to be why people started off on you so bad at the beginning of day 2.  Of course you haven't helped your case much but you are at least being proactive now and that's probably why we let PX go by without question, who just randomly appears and throws a vote on Doll for the exact same thing he's been doing.  I find both of them acting rather odd because Doll does nothing to help out with what's already out there.

PX just keeps rubbing me the wrong way and how he still hasn't contributed anything to this game other than bandwagoning and pressing Doll with little conviction.  Yet  he seems to constantly slip right under everyone's suspicions because others have been more outspoken and have drawn attention to themselves.  I also don't know what post 180 was since he just quoted Doll and didn't say anything about it.

Cut by 3 people: Hourai, we already said that it will just lead us in circles to try and figure out the nightkill because it could have happened for any number of different reasons.  I also decided that you seemed scummier than reV just because people liked to jump on him for attitude and how he decided to play the game, whereas you are just acting suspicious.

Doll you haven't even put a vote to your words so you aren't all that convincing.

[reVelske]

Though, he was actually wrong about Rou being the first on the Bob wagon (Rou only pops up first on the votecount because of a jokevote, he was actually the third on), and the passes he gives Rou while bashing me, Pesco and VgT seems kind of undeserved.

I stand corrected, dunno why I mistook Rouk to have been in the initial offense against Bob, in that case it does look rather suspect how Rou, having sat on his RvS vote all Day, decided to show up at the end of the day to bash Bob the way he has.

So reV, what's your alignment? :V

Obviously I will never answer that question or anything that may hint at my alignment in any Mafia game I play.

I agree with Rev in that I don't want to throw votes senselessly. (Unless it's a jokevote )

As much as I do not like the fact that you are spending most of your time looking uncertain about everything as always, I do appreciate the fact that someone actually see where I am coming from. Regardless, you have been making effort to put your foot down on matters as of late from what i can see, which is cool I suppose, but you still need a bit more aggression IMHO, and not having placed any vote at the end of Day One does not help your case at all.

@ HH: Cool story bro.

Now, tell me, do you not see any other possible scenarios out there? Take a moment and try come up with something else using other players as well. Is there anything about the scenario you've just described that's any more likely, than say, anything else you could possibly come up with?

lets scum lead the game, which would be exactly what he wants.

That's leading the game? Define lead for me please.

we see Pesco get suspicious and voice his dislike for him.

When?

Now say if you are right, tell me, what possible reason do I have to target Schezo right now when he's still in a relatively comfortable spot? Why don't I attack, say, huhwhat for the whole Bob-bashing, or PX or not being around?

And again, just to bring up the minor question I imposed in one of my earlier posts, Hourai, this is your first Mafia game, correct? I'm merely curious.

[Hanged Hourai]

That's leading the game? Define lead for me please.

Wait-and-see lets others lead the game, so as scum, they wouldn't have to be responsible for any "bad" turnouts that would occur.

Now, tell me, do you not see any other possible scenarios out there? Take a moment and try come up with something else using other players as well. Is there anything about the scenario you've just described that's any more likely, than say, anything else you could possibly come up with?

Yes, there could be other stories, but that is how I choose to think of those events.

When?

#126, he voices his distaste for you, which can be very easily translated into suspicion.

Now say if you are right, tell me, what possible reason do I have to target Schezo right now when he's still in a relatively comfortable spot? Why don't I attack, say, huhwhat for the whole Bob-bashing, or PX or not being around?

If you are scum, then it would be too easy to deflect onto one of your previous aggressors or take the easy route and go for someone who others think is suspicious. People would call you out on that.

Targeting Schezo makes it so that you look somewhat normal, he has some suspicion, but not enough to make it a bandwagon.
Also, it makes myself look bad since I'm voting for him too.

And again, just to bring up the minor question I imposed in one of my earlier posts, Hourai, this is your first Mafia game, correct? I'm merely curious.

Yes. But I do not want to employ the newbie excuse anymore.

[Vibri]

D1, we see reV admit to lurking and then Schezo defends him.
A lot of people get really suspicious and start to voice their opinions on him being scum.
Then at the end of D1, we see Pesco get suspicious and voice his dislike for him.
And Pesco is a strong player. It would be dumb to nightkill a good player who clearly voiced his opinions about reV being scum, so he went and killed the player who was suspicious, yet strong. A preemptive strike.

Right, except:
a) I'm not seeing any sort of defense in this post.  Saying "your next post will have to convince me that you're not scum" isn't exactly a defense.
b) Pesco also voices his dislike for you at the end of D1.

Also, seriously, I'd like to know: Your case on Schezo was that he had no defense and that he could be hiding behind a guise of stupidity.  In the same post you ask everyone to forget about your actions on D1 because you're a new player.  How do you expect anyone to reconcile those two statements? As far as I can tell, by your own logic, you're a pretty good scum candidate.

To those wondering why I think Hourai's town, It's his first post in D2 that really convinced me but I got to admit that him playing the newbie card didn't really help

His first post is the one that had him declare the newbie card, though?  So that post was enough to convince you that he was town despite your misgivings about that?  Why?

[PX]

And back, time to read everything and reread it again.

Schez: That post was responding to Doll's 154

Reading through, this post and this follow up change my opinions a bit. Hourai chasing down a tunnel after a train with Schezo on it with his explanations definitely make me want to vote for him like huh what said.

Cut to 113. What? huh what brings up a good point and you just fling shit back at him? At least huh what explained his post, so how about you respond to him? Oh wait, you said to excuse your derpy D1 play. My response.
NO
Schezo 147 made me feel indecisive. He brings up a good point or two against Hourai, but reV's offense with this post is entirely true.
New posts! Oh Hourai, what the hell. Not once this entire game have you mentioned reV AT ALL. And now you're saying he's suspicious? Jumping wagons, are you now? And you're still not providing reasons. Schezo is going down the scum meter because he's starting to do good posts though.

On to other people.
reV, I've played with before, and I hate his attitude, so I'm used to it. Not to mention he's providing legitimate, although controversial, reasons for his actions. His 165]http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535123.html#msg535123]165 answers everyone's questions, and I don't see a problem with it. Then he goes on the offense.

Reading on, all the problems on reV are on his different playstyle and his attitude. And I don't have a problem with either.

Doll: You still haven't looked better to me. You're not helping any cases, and it seems to me that you're trying to defend everyone. That is not pro-town at all. You're leading yourself and everyone else nowhere.

Meanwhile, cutting this post short so I don't get cut by more people, and I'll post a follow up within... 6 hours.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

[Hanged Hourai]

New posts! Oh Hourai, what the hell. Not once this entire game have you mentioned reV AT ALL. And now you're saying he's suspicious? Jumping wagons, are you now?

If you didn't notice, there were like 3 people who were asking my opinion on a person other than Schezo, so yeah. Not to mention I still have my vote on Schezo, so don't accuse me of jumping wagons.

Right, except:
a) I'm not seeing any sort of defense in this post.  Saying "your next post will have to convince me that you're not scum" isn't exactly a defense.
b) Pesco also voices his dislike for you at the end of D1.

a) Waiting is about as close to defending as a person can get without saying, "That's ok, nothing wrong with that."
b) Pesco's suspicion was based off me following up Bob on his vote. And as we all know, they were both town.

Also, seriously, I'd like to know: Your case on Schezo was that he had no defense and that he could be hiding behind a guise of stupidity.  In the same post you ask everyone to forget about your actions on D1 because you're a new player.  How do you expect anyone to reconcile those two statements? As far as I can tell, by your own logic, you're a pretty good scum candidate.

Schezo has had experience playing mafia, and therefore, should have known to throw up a defense. I was asking for leniency, but if you don't want to give it, then that's fine. If you want to grill me for asking help on a game new to me, then fine.

[reVelske]

#126, he voices his distaste for you, which can be very easily translated into suspicion.

Oh that was no distaste, that was totally his way of expressing his love for me TBH, I was dubbed pescofriend when I joined and made my first post for a good reason! (Right? Right.)

If you are scum, then it would be too easy to deflect onto one of your previous aggressors or take the easy route and go for someone who others think is suspicious. People would call you out on that.

And if YOU are scum, you erratic choice of actions will make perfectly good sense! You MUST be scum then, right? Right. Pls vote yourself Hourai kthnx.

Targeting Schezo makes it so that you look somewhat normal, he has some suspicion, but not enough to make it a bandwagon.

Considering how most people have displayed suspicions over Schezo, I'd say there is a pretty good chance for his wagon to be built up, or rather, it hardly worth the risk of busing a scum teamie.


And wait, hold on a sec, Schezo ISN'T new?

[Hanged Hourai]

Wasn't he in the last game?

*checks*
 
Guess not. Thought he was.

[Schezo]

Hi, this is my first ever game of Mafia and what's this?

I don't have time right now to make another post so, I'll be back later.

[Vibri]

a) Waiting is about as close to defending as a person can get without saying, "That's ok, nothing wrong with that."
b) Pesco's suspicion was based off me following up Bob on his vote. And as we all know, they were both town.

a) Uhhhhh, I disagree, but OK you're free to define terms however you like.
b) That's not true at all.  In this post and this post he questions you about your vote on Schezo, and in this post he seems to be expressing displeasure at your response.

PX also makes a pretty vaild point.  You didn't have anything to say about reV's actions during D1, and during D2 your case on Schezo was just that he had no defense and could be hiding behind a 'derpshield.'  You don't mention anything about reV until this post, which is right after huh what and I have voted him.  Like, reV does not even exist to you until that post in D2, where you seem to just assume he's scum?  You call out Schezo for 'defending' reV but you don't actually say that you find reV or reV's actions scummy.  What the hell?

Schezo has had experience playing mafia, and therefore, should have known to throw up a defense. I was asking for leniency, but if you don't want to give it, then that's fine. If you want to grill me for asking help on a game new to me, then fine.

I'm not going to be 'lenient', because you can be a new player and still be scum.  In fact, I would argue that new scum is more likely to make stupid mistakes than new town, because the new scum is very worried about getting lynched.  Also, there's a difference between asking for help in a new game and asking for what amounts to a 'do-over'.  It's one thing to ask stuff like "I don't understand what those terms mean" or "how does not posting at all during day 1 make you anti-town?" and another to say "I have consulted a wiki and somehow determined that my day 1 play was not good, so please ignore all of it."

cut: girls, girls, don't fight.  you're both pretty.

[WHMZakeri]

Second Count of Day Two

ReVelske (L-5) Roukanken, Huh what, Bardiche
Schezo (L-4) Hanged Hourai, ReVelske
Hanged Hourai (L-4) Schezo, Roukanken
Robotic Doll.S (L-5) PhoeniX Wrong
Roukanken (L-4) Affinity, Huh what

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to Lynch
Still more than two days left.
Also, if you're following along and think "Wouldn't it be cool to join in on this bloodsport" There's still one role waiting for a replacement.

[Vibri]

oh haha I forgot to put pound signs before my vote here so I guess it didn't count or something?  Whoops.  ##vote: reVelske  Also, how much time is left in the day?

[PX]

Meanwhile, cutting this post short so I don't get cut by more people, and I'll post a follow up within... 6 hours.

Did I say six hours? I'll push that back to tomorrow. Anyways, Doll looks more like a lost cat confusing itself and everything around it. Not really scummy, but not pro-town. Hourai gets my vote.

##Unvote
##Vote: Hourai

[FinnKaenbyou]

Roukan reason against Hourai is somewhat meh with his 'I acted like this when I was scum, so he must be scum' mentality.

I had specified already that he was TUNNELING INSANELY HARD on Schezo, jumped onto the bandwagon without much comment, and has been spouting some godawful logic since then.

PX has...stepped up his game considerably in 200. It irks me slightly about his sudden burst of literacy, but the point he makes about Hourai conveniently not talking about reV and suddenly having suspicions on him seems pretty justified. Strengthened by the fact that despite all these words Hourai still hasn't moved his vote from Schezo.

I probably like Schezo 196 more than I should. It just has a feel of genuine effort to me.

Keeping my vote as is. Will support a reV lynch, but not a Schezo, and obviously I think Rou is a pretty cool guy.

cut: girls, girls, don't fight.  you're both pretty.

am i pretty too ;_;