Author Topic: MotK Mafioso Mafia! Over (Read 91592 times)

Carthrat · « **Reply #150 on:** April 22, 2010, 08:55:42 AM »

Quote from: Alice

@Carth: except that he's not even voting UK! And really, both NewbScum and NewbTown are likely to be wishy-washy on Day freaking One. There just doesn't seem to be anything outright scummy in his posts, and it's too early in D1 to bring about active lurking charges imho. I don't think he's worth a lynch at this point, even for D1 reasons.

Irrelevant here, really, given the emphasis he put on it. A vote might not be attached, but he's completely mangled any reason he had to vote her in the first place. In fact, he didn't even have a real reason for her to be scum! "She's defensive"... right? So why is he finding it relevant give her 'benefit of the doubt'? What does he think she did in the first place that's so bad?

Edible · « **Reply #151 on:** April 22, 2010, 03:38:00 PM »

Zakeri (5): Kilgamayan. Roukanken, Serela, Zentillion, Kefit
Chaore (1): Kitten4u
Furienify (1): Alice Margatroid
Serela (1): Chaore
Zentillion (4): Furienify, Carthrat, UncertainKitten, huh what
Roukanken (1): Zakeri

~10 hours remain or so.

Zakeri is at L-2! Zentillion is at L-3!

FinnKaenbyou · « **Reply #152 on:** April 22, 2010, 03:39:21 PM »

Okay, sooooo.

Taking a bit of a gambit here, noting Alice's point about Zak's wagon rising to five votes unchallenged, well aware of the fact that MotK town is incredibly good at screwing up. This also comes in connection with me really losing a lot of my interest in the game, tbh, but oh well.

##Unvote

##Vote: Carth

I thought that you were the one who was always screaming at us for lynching people for non-scummy mistakes. No-one is going to be fooled by a horrendous Gambler's Fallacy, and scum wouldn't be stupid enough to try producing that as a defense. Zentillion got pressed for content, had none, and produced fluff that said nothing either way - again, newbtell, not Towntell. Seeing a player of your 'calibre' go at him for that is just plain ridiculous.

FinnKaenbyou · « **Reply #153 on:** April 22, 2010, 03:41:00 PM »

EBWOP: Scumtell, even. >_>

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #154 on:** April 22, 2010, 04:49:43 PM »

Very...interesting

.

Anyway, my point about natural aversion to lying is, of course, based on myself. Even in mafia, I still try to avoid telling outright lies. Pragmatically, it's easier to point to the truth part of any prevarication and say you weren't lying. And I think that a fair amount of people do feel bad about lying, even in mafia, but I can't really directly prove that.

Either way, the "whatever my alignment is" statement STILL feels pretty goddamn terrible and I love how all the "respected" players except Carth are ignoring this, or trying to rationalize it. It's a sarcastic I love but I can't really draw any conclusions from it.

I don't think Carth is wrong.

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #155 on:** April 22, 2010, 04:51:04 PM »

Oh...god dammit.

Deadline was an hour ago.

Good job no lynching guys.

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #156 on:** April 22, 2010, 04:51:49 PM »

EBWOP: :V

I can count hours. Sorry, I saw "11:38 AM" and was thinking that was yesterday when...it wasn't.

Nevermind, we have 9 hours left.

Edible · « **Reply #157 on:** April 22, 2010, 07:39:35 PM »

~5 hours remain!

FinnKaenbyou · « **Reply #158 on:** April 22, 2010, 09:31:05 PM »

I was hoping for something more of a response. T_T

UK's defense of Carth is noted, if that means anything.

Carthrat · « **Reply #159 on:** April 22, 2010, 09:33:30 PM »

Good morning, MotK!

There were several scumtells in that post that went a long way to destroying Zent's newbie cred, so I do not think that defense is valid here.

Also, you are voting me on meta? :|

FinnKaenbyou · « **Reply #160 on:** April 22, 2010, 09:41:38 PM »

Quote from: Carthrat on April 22, 2010, 09:33:30 PM

There were several scumtells in that post that went a long way to destroying Zent's newbie cred, so I do not think that defense is valid here.

- Calling UK scum based on odds is not a scumtell, it's a sign you don't know what you're doing.
- Flipflopping over several posts is a scumtell, perhaps. Flipflopping on the same opinion in a single post is just cluelessness.

Quote

Also, you are voting me on meta? :|

I'm voting you on the case of 'why on Earth is Carth going for the easy target who really isn't doing anything scummy?'

Carthrat · « **Reply #161 on:** April 22, 2010, 09:47:38 PM »

Flipflopping + arbitrary nonjustifications + bizzaro meta case suffice as a good enough case for me to vote. "Hasn't done anything scummy" is surely not right, here.

Anyway, that's it from me for today. work work.

Kitten4u · « **Reply #162 on:** April 22, 2010, 10:01:40 PM »

Breaking my rule of "don't post when hungry" because I'll probably be eating when the dealine hits. :V It looks like it's going to come down to Zak vs Zen, and, as I've said, I think the newbie wagons are silly.

##Unvote
##Vote Zakeri

And that's L-1 methinks.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #163 on:** April 22, 2010, 10:05:42 PM »

That's kind of an awkward jump, K4U. Any reason why you chose to make it? Your post says nothing about the reasoning for your actual vote.

Serela · « **Reply #164 on:** April 22, 2010, 10:13:29 PM »

Quote from: huh♥♪!?what on April 22, 2010, 10:05:42 PM

That's kind of an awkward jump, K4U. Any reason why you chose to make it? Your post says nothing about the reasoning for your actual vote.

It looks like K4U would rather there isn't a No-Lynch, and that at this point, it's clear it will either be Zak or Zent to get lynched if anyone at all. And since she isn't liking the newbie wagons, she'd rather go for Zakeri.

Also, since Rou switched his vote, that only puts Zak at L-2 again, and not L-1.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #165 on:** April 22, 2010, 10:15:53 PM »

Wait, why would there be no lynch? As far as I'm aware there's not a tie and the majority is on Zak, so...

Speaking of Zak, I'm kind of curious why he still has so many votes.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #166 on:** April 22, 2010, 10:17:23 PM »

Oh nevermind. Missed Rou's unvote.

Serela · « **Reply #167 on:** April 22, 2010, 10:22:01 PM »

Because of

Quote from: UncertainKitten on April 22, 2010, 04:51:04 PM

Oh...god dammit.

Deadline was an hour ago.

Good job no lynching guys.

When the rules say "No Majority" and "No tie" as different things, I believe majority means a majority of the entire player cast and not just more votes then the others. In other words, if we don't get someone to 7 votes (since there are 13 people right now) by the deadline, No Lynch. And the deadline is in about 2 hours, I think.

It'd be nice if Edible clarified, but due to UK and the rule's wording, I'm pretty sure that's what it meant.

[edible]You hit the nail on the head.[/edible]

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #168 on:** April 22, 2010, 10:24:23 PM »

Votes were tied when she posted that though

FinnKaenbyou · « **Reply #169 on:** April 22, 2010, 10:32:27 PM »

Well, crap. I didn't realise that we needed a majority to get any lynch at all.

##Unvote, Vote: Zakeri (L-1)

Still find the case against him more believable than that against Zentillion.

GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em · « **Reply #170 on:** April 22, 2010, 10:34:13 PM »

I still don't understand the case on Zak much at all. Could somebody sum it up for me?

?lice Bl?ckb?rn · « **Reply #171 on:** April 22, 2010, 10:34:52 PM »

Honestly, given the choice, I'd rather lynch Zent over Zak, considering Zent has at least done something to warrant a wagon, as opposed to the one on Zak basically springing out of thin air on fairly awkward and meaningless charges.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #172 on:** April 22, 2010, 10:45:29 PM »

I don't mind if the Lynch happens to be on me. A Bandwagon is a bandwagon, and since mine started pretty early, it should be much harder to hide behind the deadline excuse. I'm sure you guy'll find scum. No hard feelings.

Besides, I probably shouldn't be in this game. The threat of my internet being cut is still real, and I honestly wouldn't have joined if I had known half a week ago.

?lice Bl?ckb?rn · « **Reply #173 on:** April 22, 2010, 10:47:32 PM »

For that matter, I'll put my ~~money~~vote where my mouth is, and Ninja Zakeri: huh. Not willing to replace /out? We do have some replacements in the queue, and it's early enough (i.e. Day freaking One that such a replacement wouldn't actually be detrimental to the game as a whole)

Brief summary: it's not so much that Zent is scummy (I'm actually decently sure he's town), but rather the fact that the case on Zakeri literally is nonexistent. Let's take a look at some of the votes for him and the reasoning thereof:
Kilga: The only person with decent reasoning on the entire wagon. Zakeri has been cheerleading wagons for most of the game. The problem is, I'm still not sure what to make of this, as I actually agree with him that said wagons are on DerpTown instead of Actual Scum, so yeah. Overall, fine.
Roukan: Same reasoning as Kilga, I suppose is fine. Voteshift to Carthrat actually makes him look more Townie in my mind, due to the sheer bizarreness and inanity of it all.
NeoSerela: I've read your posts over a zillion times and still can't seem to find a reason for your vote. What, I mean seriously, just what?
Zentillion: You claim UK is the most Scummy, then vote Zakeri for...what reasons *exactly*, anyway?
K4U: whee awkward-ass votejump.

So Kilga and Roukan are fine, Serela, Zentillion and K4U are all awful. The worst part is that I'm pretty sure that both Zentillion and Zakeri are probably Town, but it's too late to start an alternate wagon right now anyway. Thus, given the choice, and the fact that the latter 3 people on the Zakeri wagon are really unsettling me and yeah.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #174 on:** April 22, 2010, 11:07:00 PM »

I could replace out, but it would just be a jerk move to do when I'm the one with the most votes on him.

Kilgamayan · « **Reply #175 on:** April 22, 2010, 11:20:12 PM »

Been around, haven't had much to say. I guess Rat and I will just have to agree to disagree.

Speaking of disagreeing, I have to disagree with Alice's assessment of Roukan's vote flip to Rat, it's weak reasoning and could possibly be a jump away from double town trains in an attempt to gain credit with "hey look my vote was elsewhere when the day ended!" though obviously this would require some flips to really have any meaning.

K4U's jump is timely, yes, but was at least telegraphed by her earlier sentiments regarding newbie wagons. I'd be more suspicious of her if she went to Zent instead.

Edible · « **Reply #176 on:** April 22, 2010, 11:25:53 PM »

One hour remains!

UncertainJakutten · « **Reply #177 on:** April 22, 2010, 11:38:12 PM »

...could you at least have posted a LAZY votecount there so I could know who's closest to lynch? Kinda helps so close to deadline.

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #178 on:** April 22, 2010, 11:39:04 PM »

The Case on Zen Master boils down to this:

-Using Craplogic to push a (failed) wagon on UK (Found by Furien)
-A "Cake and eat it, too" Approach to flipfloping (Found by Carthrat)

UK and huh what don't bring up anything new on the case, but their answers are depthy enough to make me think they're either really good at plagiarism or not parroting for the sake of bad-wagoning.

The first point is a legitimate point to use against him, and alone it's good enough for a day one case. The second point however doesn't hold as much water, since Zen Master is pretty new and you can always expect someone new to not know he needs to hold back on second guessing himself. I agree his play has been anti-town to this point.

Normally, I'd hate to vote for someone for this sort of play, mainly because it feels more like we're punishing someone for not knowing how to play than anything else. But this is one of those things you've just got to suck up and learn not to do next time, Zen Master.

##Unvote
##Vote: Zentillion (L-2)

WHMZakeri · « **Reply #179 on:** April 22, 2010, 11:42:20 PM »

The Somethingth Unnofficial close to deadline votecount:

Zakeri (6): Kilgamayan. Roukanken, Serela, Zentillion, Kefit, Kitten4u
Furienify (1): Alice Margatroid
Serela (1): Chaore
Zentillion (5): Furienify, Carthrat, UncertainKitten, huh what, Zakeri

I am at L-1
Zentillion is at L-2