Yume Nikki Mafia - Waking 2

[Edible]

In reading through the Pesco-Affinity weirdness, I came across something that's really, really weird.

What something would this happen to be?

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

Sorry about the prods Nietz, hopefully I will not require another one this game. Again, my apologies.

Regarding Zakeri, I'm just not seeing a scum-Zakeri pull off such a horrible and blatant chainsaw defence of his scumbuddy - even if said scumbuddy *is* the GF. He's still fairly annoyingly suspicious but I'm unconvinced that he's the best lynch for today.

UK is all kinds of bleh, basically.

Need to reread pesco's wagon and reasoning before I can make any further statements, except that both Rou and Serp are kind of weird at this moment from my POV and I'm not sure what to make of them.

[WHMZakeri]

What something would this happen to be?

Most of it revolves around a pet theory I have. It's also incredibly hard to defend against since it's based on what Pesco said throughout the day, and I want more proof before I proceed. I don't want to distract him with it.

My main point is that I want to see more from him before I condemntribute.

It will be posted before the day's over.

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

Most of it revolves around a pet theory I have. It's also incredibly hard to defend against since it's based on what Pesco said throughout the day, and I want more proof before I proceed. I don't want to distract him with it.

My main point is that I want to see more from him before I condemntribute.

It will be posted before the day's over.

First off, for like the 543563646365454645th time,  antecedents are your friend. Who is "he"? Pesco? Pesco's dead in case you haven't noticed. If it's not Pesco, then who the fuck is it? Sadly we're not telepathic here, you know. (though if we were, that'd make for a fairly boring game, come to think of it)

Also, this is mafia. Cards on the damn table, please. There's no point to hide anything (unless you're scum). So can you please tell us your glorious pet idea already? Or do we have to bring you up to L-2 first?

[WHMZakeri]

I mean Affinity, the one who I am currently prodding for his vote.

Also, this is mafia. Cards on the damn table, please. There's no point to hide anything (unless you're scum).

The town is bad at playing poker. Here it is...

What something would this happen to be?

I saw Pesco Scum hunting

Notice the top two sets of quotes and responses. Pesco makes Serpent's vote against Affinity look bad by trying to note that he fed Serp the answer to his reasoning, then by claiming Serp's backtrack looked fishy.

Early day one Pesco had him nagging about people's opinions on Affinity. After feeding Serp's reason to vote to him with the suspected bussing post, he later says ?Looking forward to see where you take affinity? (Post 104)

In Affinity's next post (125) he states that Serpent's reason was not something he could defend against, and was null since Beilos had to answer to it, not him.

Sometime after that, Pesco states the following in responce To Alice's complaint on Serpent's Vote:

Baity's alignment is pretty irrelevant to the conclusion you've drawn because I don't see much of a downside to scumAffinity's position there.

This seems like Pesco is saying he knew the vote on Affinity could be easily dispelled. The same pesco that earlier said ?Looking forward to see where you take affinity?, and played off of Serpent.

It looks like Pesco was planning to turn Serpent's vote against himself, which in turn would make Affinity look better.

[Serp]

It looks like Pesco was planning to turn Serpent's vote against himself, which in turn would make Affinity look better.

Wait, so to make sure I'm reading this right, you think that Pesco saw how weak my case on Affinity was, and figured that he, Pesco, could turn my vote from Affinity to himself, and so make Affinity look Townie to later analysis?  That seems like kind of a stretch.

[WHMZakeri]

I know it does, but that case he made on you seems very weird in that he practically admits it was a gotcha game played on you, whether by accident or not.

[Jana]

Vote count:

Zakeri (1): Carthrat
Serpentarius (1): Affinity
Edible (1): Sodium Peroxide
Affinity (2): Edible, Zakeri

Not voting: UK, Roukanken, Alice, Serpentarius

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
~43.5 hours remaining.

Careful with the walls, guys. Last few posts are getting close to the limit.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Edible raises a good case about Affinity and Pesco. This is all that Affinity has to say on him:
- Should directly answer my questions to him. Coaching?
- Uses case as an excuse to attack Serp. Seems to be defending Pesco indirectly.
- Keeps his vote on KY, but notes that Pesco's behaviour has been 'weirdening'. Why is this the first opinion you've given on Pesco?
Pesco on Affinity:
- FPMH on Baity after he votes Affinity
- 'You don't like Affinity's vote?'
- Declares an interest in where the Affinity case goes, but doesn't do any questioning himself or declare any suspicion of him anywhere in the day
- Refuses to answer Affinity's prod to respond to me

Zakeri is still a very 'eh' case, but there's a point in that his defense was a little too upfront. At least he's actually responding to his accusations. Add the weird Serp vote (Serp lynches scum = BAD), and...

##Unvote: Zakeri
Vote: Affinity (L-2)

[Affinity]

Affinity, regarding my stance on Pesco:  Pesco had the votes.  More lynches are good (and yesterday's events make a good anecdote for that point).

When evaluating voting posts, one must, before considering the alignment of the person he voted (if it can be known to us), you must consider the reasons.  And Serp had no reasons, other than subscribing to the law that the more lynches, the better.  This raises the question, why pesco and not the others?  It doesn't matter a penny's worth of townie credit whether or not he lynched scum, when there is absolutely no reasoning behind that decision to lynch him other than the fact that he happened to have more votes.  Rou's post is all kinds of horrible misrep.  Zakeri is interesting in that he enjoys contemplating the reflections of crystal balls.

Should directly answer my questions to him. Coaching?

Inconclusive at best, scraping sludge at worst.  Just as would asking someone to give a reasonable case (e.g Baity) be compared to coaching.

Uses case as an excuse to attack Serp. Seems to be defending Pesco indirectly.

Give me reasons why the linked text gives you the impression you have instead of me just objecting towards Serp's actions and finding him slightly scummy for it.

Keeps his vote on KY, but notes that Pesco's behaviour has been 'weirdening'. Why is this the first opinion you've given on Pesco?

I disapproved of his actions against you, during your back and forth with him, for one.  I

[Carthrat]

dropouts

I think Edible is likely town because he had a good case on Zak on day one. Except in reality he didn't really make a case out of it, it was just a good point which I thought was pretty damning. Since he himself isn't going anywhere with it, I'm back to square one with him now. I wasn't liking him yesterday until that point, either. Doubt I'll want to lynch him today though.

I don't think Affinity's logic re: Serp is all that bad; it's a natural extension of yesterdays stuff on Serp (re, being okay with pesco lynch despite professed neutrality). Certainly I think it's a bit silly to clear him just because he was anti-pesco at the end. Lackluster votes, whether correct or not, aren't cool.

As I said earlier, btw, I found it odd from Zakeri that he voted Baity whilst at the same time acknowledging 'self-vote = always bad for town' yesterday. I kinda want him to clarify what he meant here.

Alice, who do you think is scum? Day is getting on and you haven't really dropped a case. Or really dropped anything, come to think of it.

[Nietz]

Vote count:

Zakeri (1): Carthrat. Roukanken
Serpentarius (1): Affinity
Edible (1): Sodium Peroxide
Affinity (3): Edible, Zakeri, Roukanken

Not voting: UK, Alice, Serpentarius

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Affinity is at L-2.

35.5 hours remaining.
(Also, if I don't get a replacement for UK before the 24 hours mark, she'll be modkilled.)

[Edible]

I think Edible is likely town because he had a good case on Zak on day one. Except in reality he didn't really make a case out of it, it was just a good point which I thought was pretty damning. Since he himself isn't going anywhere with it, I'm back to square one with him now. I wasn't liking him yesterday until that point, either. Doubt I'll want to lynch him today though.

It was pretty damning in the sense that it proved Zakeri had no idea what he was doing, yes.  I just don't think that necessarily makes him scum.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Affinity, list other players who were equally scummy compared to Pesco yesterday. Saying 'there were other players he could have chosen' without giving examples is poor play.
Secondly:

Won't object to a Pesco lynch, especially considering his late day absence.

This is condoning a Pesco lynch, not enforcing it. If he outright said 'vote Pesco, not anyone else' then that'd be enforcing it, but as is this is misrep.

Give me reasons why the linked text gives you the impression you have instead of me just objecting towards Serp's actions and finding him slightly scummy for it.

Chainsaw.

I disapproved of his actions against you, during your back and forth with him, for one.

One/two sentences in one post? That's it?

[Serp]

Firstly, Carth and Affinity regarding my stance on Pesco:  I've explained this several times already, and I'm not going to do it again on a day with these settings.  I'm well aware that being "okay" with a Pesco lynch doesn't get me nearly as much town cred as actively pursuing him, but I really don't see how it could be called scummy.

I see Zakeri as unlikely to be scum just because of how half-assed his defense of Pesco was.  If he had gone the whole way and voted KY to be lynched, then Pesco would be still alive, and both would look a little suspicious, but not nearly as much as they do now.  It's sort of a WIFOM, trying to distinguish between bad town play and bad scum play, but I guess the fact that Zakeri didn't invoke it for himself is a point in his favor.

Leaning more towards Affinity, but I don't want to bring him to L-1 yet.  Zakeri looked like an obvious lynch earlier, but Affinity went after me instead.  At first I thought this was a townie sign, since Affinity wanted to scumhunt instead of just let the lynch happen, but maybe since scum-Affinity knows that Zakeri is town, he's distancing himself from the Zakeri lynch and trying to set me up for a lynch tomorrow.  The way he just sat back and said "Let Zakeri defend himself" without following up on that defense supports this.

[WHMZakeri]

It looks like there's more to Affinity's post, but it also looks like the rest of it is defense from Roukanken's Analysis.

I would still like to see more on Affinity's case. It's a Valid point, Serp passively supporting the godmother's lynch since it was going to happen anyway. It's also a Valid point that I'm scum because I tried a last minute Blitz on Roukanken trying to get the Godmother off the lynch-list. It's also a Valid point that Beilos is scum due to trying to create WiFoM upon WiFoM with his self-vote.

A Major mistake I always >.>; make a lot is seeing one instance of someone that acted really scummy, and forming a case based around that. Forget the fact that I can't seem to find any other evidence even after an entire day's worth of back and forth, Roukanken is scum because he press an invalid issue! Except... he's probably not.

Likewise, the only case that turned out to be scum was the one that Roukanken had listed four good points against. four.

meanwhile, there are three major points against you today.
1. You do not talk about Pesco
2. You DO NOT talk about Pesco
3. Overbearing (God)Mom
4. Your preferred day one lynches were both townie, and followed the same amount of logic as your current Serp vote.

I also have another thing I'd like to bring up. Other's need to post opinions before I can though.

[FinnKaenbyou]

3. Overbearing (God)Mom

You lost me.
Also you can talk now, so feel free to explain your 'other thing'. Need to go for a few hours to play chess, but should be back here after that.

[WHMZakeri]

I was referring to Pesco.

I really need a second opinion on this:

Lastly, I support the double lynch KY and Baity today because I don't want to see them in the endgame, and that with their current style of play, none of them can seem to be capable to redeem themselves in the process stated above.  WIFOMs might be created horribly, and that's not something we want.

Is it really just me, or does it look like Affinity was attempting to Justify Beilos and Blender as Mislynches in this paragraph?

Also, while I was waiting, I noticed I forgot to pick up a few points.

As I said earlier, btw, I found it odd from Zakeri that he voted Baity whilst at the same time acknowledging 'self-vote = always bad for town' yesterday. I kinda want him to clarify what he meant here.

I think I was speaking with memories of Real Women of Gensokyo when I said that. The one where I Joke-Self-Voted, Kilgamayan made a huge deal out of it, even though I said it wasn't serious, and eventually wound up leading to the Cop outing himself to keep me alive.

[Sodium]

Back from school, gonna post Zakeri and Affinity Day 1 stuff soon. Mean while...

I really need a second opinion on this:Is it really just me, or does it look like Affinity was attempting to Justify Beilos and Blender as Mislynches in this paragraph?

Eh, it was a valid point:Baity was...yeah, and Kanako Yasaka was Kanako Lurksaka. But I'd say that it was too early for "They will not redeem themselves in any way", because it was DAY 1. He should've given them more time before saying that they'll be useless late game, and should be lynched. So yeah, the argument isn't bad, but the time at which it was said is too early. This long paragraph is basically saying I agree, btw.

Although there is a good case on Affinity,does anyone else think that Zakeri has been tunneling him? I mean, all Zakeri has done in Day 2 is defend himself, and attack Affinity, so yeah.

Edible is acting more like Edible again, from what I can tell, so yeah. I'll change my vote after I check Day 1 Zakeri and Affinity.

and eventually wound up leading to the Cop outing himself to keep me alive.

This brings back some memories...not good ones though. FFFFF

[Nietz]

Vote count unchanged.

30 hours remain.

[FinnKaenbyou]

I really need a second opinion on this:Is it really just me, or does it look like Affinity was attempting to Justify Beilos and Blender as Mislynches in this paragraph?

I agree that his reasoning seems to have jumped from 'they're scummy' to 'they might be town, but they'll be liabilities if we keep them alive', and the fact he's able to say this while entirely ignoring Pesco is pretty argh. Voting players based on later WIFOMs on Day 1 is pretty awkward, and damning them for good based on D1 actions is even worse.

Another point: Affinity's case revolves around Serp getting Pesco lynched. The alternative is either a triple Townie lynch/only double lynch, and in either case Pesco lives for at least another day. How is getting the GF killed a day earlier for 'Townie cred' a logical strategy?

[Sodium]

Bleh.

Affinity:Starts off pretty good, and get worse. I can't really give anything better then what Edible has already said about Affinity and his interactions with Pesco. =| Also, I can't really add anything else to what the others have said either. >_> Yeah, I know, I'm being stupid, but I really can't find anything that hasn't been said yet.

Zakeri:Edible's 269 made me laugh my ass off while I was reading it. Thanks Edible. Now, onto business. I don't get you at all during Day 1. Why did you choose Pesco over Roukan? Why did you blame Roukan completely for Roukan vs Serp? What the hell were you trying to do? Maybe I'm just tired of and pissed about reading Day 1 too many times, but seriously, what the hell?

##Unvote
##Vote:Zakeri

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

 yArgh, nothing makes sense in this damn game at this point:

Zakeri - The way he's been conducting himself (the horrible chainsaw defence of pesco D1, the repeated "I have a theory but I'm not going to tell you guys etc" on D2, essentially everything you've said on D1, etc) makes him certainly look weird, but at this point I'm not willing to believe him being scum. Even if Pesco was the GF, why would scum do such a blatant defence on D1? So at this point I'm going to tentatively clear him, but he's worth looking into further tomorrow and later. Or as a vig target. Either works.

Affinity - What? What. What, seriously. What. While I see your reasoning... what. I disagree with Serp about the reasoning for a scum-Affinity, though. It seems artificial and requires more leaps of faith than I'm willing to take at this point.

Serp/Rou - "?" is a good summary of what I think of you two.

Edible - I'm slightly suspicious of you, as you're not as obvtown as you normally are when you're Town.

Carthrat - Needs to exist, needs to scumhunt a bit more. Seems entirely too me-too for my liking at this point.

Sodium Silicate - All of his cases seem to be primarily based off of meta, which is horrid. Appears to be doing not that much scumhunting. Not seeing any justification in his vote for Zakeri beyond "I don't know what you were trying to do so

[Edible]

So in terms of suspicion, I'd actually say Sodium Benzoate is the most scummy at this point. However, I'm going to have to do another re-read in a bit once I'm finally awake before I slap down a vote.

Did you see this?

Thoughts?  (The bit about Alert)

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

Hm. Would a Scum-Pesco want a Townie-Mr_Alert promptly replaced? Not really, the replacement might be an actual threat. Best to wait it out as long as possible on someone who is not playing. Combined with Sodium Perchlorate's latest behaviour, it certainly does not endear himself to me in the least.

[Nietz]

To clarify, if I don't get a replacement for UK in 4 and a half hours, she'll get modkilled and:

- If she's Town, Dream ends immediately and Waking Phase starts.
- If she's Scum, Dream ends, Waking is skipped, and Dream 3 starts immediatly.
- If she's Third Party, Dream continues.
 
Also, if the Dream ends before that, deadline for replacement will extend until then end of the Waking phase.

----

Vote count:

Zakeri (2): Carthrat. Roukanken, Sodium Peroxide
Serpentarius (1): Affinity
Edible (0): Sodium Peroxide
Affinity (3): Edible, Zakeri, Roukanken

Not voting: UK, Alice, Serpentarius

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Affinity is at L-2.

~28.5 hours remaining.

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

- If she's Scum, Dream ends, Waking is skipped, and Dream 3 starts immediatly.

Why this instead of just continuing the present Dream like a standard scum modkill?

[Serp]

Should we push to lynch someone before UK gets modkilled?  I'd be willing to hammer either Zakeri or Affinity, though I'd prefer Affinity.

[Edible]

@Nietz: What happens if we lynch someone before you modkill UK?

I refuse to have a repeat of last game.

[Nietz]

Why this instead of just continuing the present Dream like a standard scum modkill?

I thought this was the usual.

@Nietz: What happens if we lynch someone before you modkill UK?

I refuse to have a repeat of last game.

Also, if the Dream ends before that, deadline for replacement will extend until then end of the Waking phase.