INVASION! (Game Over, Nobody Wins)

[Edible]

Vote Count: Now With 100% Less Changing
Anthony (4) - Kiro, Pesco, Kitten4U, Nietz
Angel Milk (3) - Suwako Moriya, Sodium, Serpentarius
Serpentarius (2) - Kilgamayan, Zakeri
Roukanken (2) - UncertainKitten, Affinity
Sodium (1) - Angel Milk
Zakeri (1) - Roukanken

Not voting: Anthony

You have around 12 hours remaining.  As a reminder, you need 8 votes to lynch.

[Kilgamayan]

Ugh. Letting Serp live to see Day 3 after all the garbage he spewed today pisses me off, but it doesn't look his lynch is happening today. Hopefully getting one of Anthony and Tenshi to flip will make more people actually look at him and see how truly scummy his play has been.

##Unvote: Serpentarius
##Vote: Tenshi

Tenshi and Anthony were basically the same for me going into the day, so I'd rather vote for the one whose (non-)actions are 120% unacceptable and warrant being banned from this game for a very, very long time.

[Pesco]

My phone post got eaten by bad connection.

I'm feeling quite sure of who is playing as Suwako now. Nobody really knows the meta to apply so there shouldn't be a problem if I make my reveal is there?

@Rou:

Aaaaand nothing really new happened. Except for a new Nietz case by Affinity.

True, I have to agree with you here.  The fact that Sodium asked me where that case went before Nietz even came on to answer me is also disturbing; his last post made him far worse.  What do you mean by being VgT's last gasp vote change, though?

It's the fact that as soon as the Suwako wagon appeared, there were 3 jumpers on it and other cases fell to the side. Given that the leading lynch at that point was a Mafioso, it seems believable that he was being quickwagoned to try and save VgT.

It started as a prod, and he continued to fail producing as the day went on which made me want to lynch him. I don't see a contradiction.

Was it bad enough to earn my vote for the sake of creating some sort of pressure on him? Yes. Was it bad enough for people to suddenly disregard secondary suspects like Nietz and Pesco and suddenly reduce Day 1 to a 2-lynch race? No.

Kilga had already pointed out why point 1 is unlikely, I've given my version too.

Your vote post here doesn't sound like a prod. You're accusing him outright of being scum trying to fly under the radar. A prod vote goes more along the lines of "You're not doing anything, deliver! Here's a vote to show you I'm serious."

I think people can see for themselves that the topic of your posts after the vote were mostly gripes against Suwako, self-defence and light throwbacks to Anthony or blanket suspicions.

Affinity's call on your contradictions is valid.

I'm still getting to that reread of Zak. Doublepost if I have to.

Cut: I've said my piece on Serp. Can we get the other people on Anthony and Tenshi to restate thier votes then?

[Kiro]

Have very little to add at the moment as I'm mostly waiting on Serp's latest reread and reply. I still find Anthony's reasons in #386 pretty bad including the now current push for Serp as his secondary lynch after not initially mentioning him. Your top 2 cases are on 2 rightfully suspicious players, but they really aren't voting you at the moment. Anthony, in your #436, you're highlighting your impression that there are "people making it seem like [your opinion on VgT] is more than what it was intended to be." Do you think any particular person that is doing this as being probable Scum? If you're actually a Townie, it is highly unlikely that every single person on your wagon or putting you as a #2 is an actual Townie. Share your suspicions and don't back down. Part of the problem with you is that you were indecisive in early Day 1 about voting and even backed off your vote on Rou. Especially since you're in the vote lead right now, you should be posting more of your suspicions while you still can rather than saying less.

I should be around for the deadline tomorrow. My preferred order at the moment would be Anthony, Serp, then Tenshi. I just feel Tenshi has the most chance of being a Scum mislynch target than either Anthony or Serp (also due to both Anthony and Serp being on the Tenshi wagon, although Anthony is figuratively on the wagon) so that's why Tenshi's 3rd for me.

[Suwako Moriya]

Oh, Pesco.  You're such a cutiepie.  It's horribly antitown to try to call down metagaming for no reason like that, but it'll be good for a laugh and you're wrong anyway so why not.  Pucker up and give the frog princess a smooch!

Kilga my man, you asked this a couple times and I gotta say, I just don't see how Serp is that much incredibly scummier than the other leading brands of lynch candidate.  I get that you don't like him and he's probably my second choice today but I'm just not sold on him enough to see why he'd go over Mrs. One Post.

[Pesco]

SirAlex

[Suwako Moriya]

Nope!
Hilarity reigns!

[Pesco]

It's not like you would admit it even if I was right. Further, Suwako would just change hands again after this game.

@Kilga:  Again, I don't follow.  Why is Suwako voting for you?

This never got answered. I'd like to know.

There wasn't much of Zak to reread since his stuff was few and far in between. I mean nothing that I can remember after his vote on Suwako. Grasping at Zak for his position on the wagon is weak. Questioning his content wrt the Suwako wagon might have been a more valid route.

[FinnKaenbyou]

What do you mean by being VgT's last gasp vote change, though?

He was being pressed to actually hold an opinion, actually choose a case to back, but instead of going for one of the leading wagons he puts his vote on Sodiphas. Why?

If you felt that way, it's not that unfeasible to think that many people would feel that way too, and just because you said that 'yeah I had a case on him' doesn't mean that you can be excluded from your own usage of the 'zero to four vote' argument to accuse others.  As Zakeri said, this is because anybody can say that yes they voted Suwako over others for genuine reasons and give a common few, including yourself. 

Starting a case because on a prod makes sense. Jumping on a bandwagon to prod who it's targeting, not so much.

Two of that above points apply to you as well.  Silence is circumstantial.

I don't see this post as anything other than trying to discredit my case. Except instead of pointing out what I'm doing wrong he just accuses me of being a hypocrite. Nice work.

We could give three shaky reasons why Town X deserves lynch, and still avoid suspicion by throwing in keywords and phrases like "Infolynch" and "I've just finished rereading".

Likewise, We could give five solid reasons for why Scum X, Scum Y, and Town Z all deserve lynches, and yet by leaving our vote on Town Z, we could still be called scum once those three flip.

Or alternatively you could be voting X who gets lynched, then why who gets lynched, or vice versa. This is outright grasping.

It's obvious you're never going to forgive us of the vote on Suwako, even if we could prove it was an innocent mistake.

Blatant strawman. It's not the Suwako case I'm pressing you on, it's the D2 sudden silence and the tunnelling.

You make it sound like we were here the whole time we were silent.

You made no effort to explain your disappearance, and 24 hours is a long time to be absent. Plus comparing it with your activity D1...

Again, Zak is The Lynch I Want But Can't Have. Tenshi I am terrified is Town but really I know I have no reason to believe that. Sodium is another lynch I wouldn't mind that isn't happening, and Anthony sort of just stopped talking.

Since Edible seems to be going to explicit lengths to not modkill Tenshi, and he had to explicitly point out that all modkills were day-ending, I'm going to just have to take scum lurking as scum lurking. Tenshi at least tried to produce in his last game. Here? Nothing.

##Unvote: Zak
Vote: Tenshi

Willing to switch to Anthony if necessary.

[Suwako Moriya]

Ah yeah that's another thing.  Why exactly are people TERRIFIED Tenshimilk is town?  Even if that is so, they're a liability that we can't afford to have around at endgame, scum sure ain't gonna kill them for us, and the mod refuses to deal with the lurking without ending the day, which is the same thing as us lynching 'em. 

And that's on top of the case for them being scum, which is preeeetty good. 

So what is with the strong language and terrification here?

[Affinity]

@Rou:

Jumping on a bandwagon to prod who it's targeting, not so much

Whoever said that I was prodding everyone?  Who ever said that anyone else on the bandwagon was prodding anyone?

He was being pressed to actually hold an opinion, actually choose a case to back, but instead of going for one of the leading wagons he puts his vote on Sodiphas. Why?

Regarding this, I never liked cases of 'I never did anything but scum molested me so I look scummy', because what VgT did has nothing to do with Sodium's alignment.  What you should be looking at is Eliphas' reactions, which there were none, so you embarking on this case is nigh silly.  His actual scuminess in his way of playing I can accept but no reason why you should not go after Suwako as well. 

Blatant strawman. It's not the Suwako case I'm pressing you on, it's the D2 sudden silence and the tunnelling.

It is!  Because you're not pressing Suwako, who has uhh... tunneled on Angel Milk himself with even less contributions.

---

And so Suwako somehow drops the case on Kilga!  And proceeds to persuade everyone to go on Angel Milk!  Generally, the people who have dumped their votes on Tenshi since the beginning of the day without really evaluating anyone else are currently, excluding bandwagon analysis, the scummiest, especially since Tenshi isn't going to answer anyways, and that the 72 hours of today could have been more fruitfully spent searching other people out, which Suwako does with flair.  Personally, however, I prefer the case against Anthony due to more solid evidence; since there is always a chance later in the game that a replacement will show up, and I'm willing to bank on that chance. 

##Unvote
##Vote: Anthony

[FinnKaenbyou]

Ah yeah that's another thing.  Why exactly are people TERRIFIED Tenshimilk is town?  Even if that is so, they're a liability that we can't afford to have around at endgame, scum sure ain't gonna kill them for us, and the mod refuses to deal with the lurking without ending the day, which is the same thing as us lynching 'em. 

And that's on top of the case for them being scum, which is preeeetty good. 

So what is with the strong language and terrification here?

It just feels too easy, I suppose. As in 'would scum ever really be this uncooperative'?

Whoever said that I was prodding everyone?  Who ever said that anyone else on the bandwagon was prodding anyone?

You said that later members on the bandwagon were just as capable of jumping off as me, but by building the wagon they basically made the case. Therefore they obviously weren't voting Suwako based on a prod, which is what you were suggesting with 'why couldn't the rest of the wagon thought the same as you?'

Regarding this, I never liked cases of 'I never did anything but scum molested me so I look scummy', because what VgT did has nothing to do with Sodium's alignment.  What you should be looking at is Eliphas' reactions, which there were none, so you embarking on this case is nigh silly.  His actual scuminess in his way of playing I can accept but no reason why you should not go after Suwako as well.

Not responding is scummy in its own way. And stop linking everything to Suwako, who's been more or less cleared. Unless you can come up with a good explanation for why scum would be fine with a double-scum wagon pair, he's more or less Town, but that doesn't make lurking okay.

It is!  Because you're not pressing Suwako, who has uhh... tunneled on Angel Milk himself with even less contributions.

Note that I WAS pressing Suwako until the clear was explained to me.

And so Suwako somehow drops the case on Kilga!

Because being early on a scum lynch is a terrible reason to clear someone!

[FinnKaenbyou]

EBWOP: Why are you disregarding the VgT vote as meaning anything? Why Sodiphas over someone like Anthony or one of the other suspects who'd appeared?

[Affinity]

You said that later members on the bandwagon were just as capable of jumping off as me, but by building the wagon they basically made the case. Therefore they obviously weren't voting Suwako based on a prod, which is what you were suggesting with 'why couldn't the rest of the wagon thought the same as you?''

Starting a case because on a prod makes sense. Jumping on a bandwagon to prod who it's targeting, not so much.

Isn't this contradicting what you said?  Also I was merely suggesting that everyone has their own vote and reasons to do what they do with them; if you can vote him, why can't they?

Not responding is scummy in its own way.  And stop linking everything to Suwako, who's been more or less cleared. Unless you can come up with a good explanation for why scum would be fine with a double-scum wagon pair, he's more or less Town, but that doesn't make lurking okay.

I concede the second point, but not the first.  'Not responding' is hilariously off the mark, e.g here.  Also, Sodium and Eliphas are different people; what disturbs me is that you never consider this post.

Because being early on a scum lynch is a terrible reason to clear someone!

He himself said that he had a lingering suspicion on Kilga in the beginning of the day.

EBWOP: Why are you disregarding the VgT vote as meaning anything? Why Sodiphas over someone like Anthony or one of the other suspects who'd appeared?

Because scum can do anything they want.  They may randomly vote someone to look different and to mislead town; they could vote you or me and you wouldn't be scummy for it by my standards.  As I said, the reactions to that vote are more important because that is left to the player in question.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Also I was merely suggesting that everyone has their own vote and reasons to do what they do with them; if you can vote him, why can't they?

If this is what you meant, I misinterpreted your statement. I thought you were implying that the later voters were also poking Suwako.
Anyway, I don't have any objection to the voting part, it's just that such a large bandwagon growing in so short a time with all the alternatives thrown aside is somewhat iffy.

I concede the second point, but not the first.  'Not responding' is hilariously off the mark, e.g here.

asdadfslogdkbndflhbkndlgkhbndfbknmd
I only just noticed that Eliphas was another of the early jumpers on VgT and that therefore VgT's vote is basically an OMGUS. FFFFFFFI can't play this game.

He himself said that he had a lingering suspicion on Kilga in the beginning of the day.

In the same way that I still have a lingering suspicion that this IS indeed all a setup and Suwako is scum. But until I have decent evidence to back that up, I'm keeping it at the back of my mind.

Getting incredibly infuriated at my own inability to recall basic information now. It's not even that I'm that busy, I just keep remembering things wrong. >_>

[Kilgamayan]

Kilga my man, you asked this a couple times and I gotta say, I just don't see how Serp is that much incredibly scummier than the other leading brands of lynch candidate.  I get that you don't like him and he's probably my second choice today but I'm just not sold on him enough to see why he'd go over Mrs. One Post.

It's more that I'm aggravated that every word from his mouth today has ostensibly been "Hi I'm Daisy scum" and yet he garnered exactly one vote outside of mine (and from someone I leaned scum on at the beginning of the day to boot). We had Kiro giving pussy-out reasons to avoid having to cast full judgment for a while and everyone else has either gone "yeah that looks pretty good" while focusing their attention elsewhere or flat-out ignored the case entirely.

Then there's the outside shot that Tenshi is town that's just really, really bad. It's like a 2% chance but it's still a chance. There is 0% chance Serp is town.

[Pesco]

Hey Kilga. Why was Suwako voting you yesterday? Umu asked, I re-asked and once more.

[Kilgamayan]

Kilga, I was referring more towards that last post where you were all "o lol sure is some rageathol here with people voting Suwako!.... *crickets chirp*"

I don't know what was up with pyosting that - JUST that with nothing else - and I'm not soooo sure I like it.

...

I think scum in this situation would lay back and spur on the gobs of bad cases and unproductive discussion while taking few hard stances themselves and putting out ambiguous statements about cases like the one on myself.  Pesco's been hanging back but supporting the spam and taking an attitude that puts himself out of the discussion while not condemning it, and Kilga did that with his one liner about rageathol.

Iiiiiinteresting
Looking active while providing no meaningful opinions eh
That describes, likero, half the game-o though.  Why VGT specifically?
Because he didn't throw down a "case" and vote like other people did?
Is this really indicative of scumminess?

Less than convincing. 

I'm on the fence with Kilga and Pesco, annnnd... still cool voting Kilga I think due to less than convincingness. 

[UncertainJakutten]

So, do I have time to catch up from what was admittedly lazyness and being sick of reading this fucking game over and over again?

Yeah, that's about how I feel. I'll do another crazy catchup post if I have the time. if I run out of time I'll store it in notepad and post it tomorrow.

[Kilgamayan]

I would only bother with catching up wrt Anthony and Tenshi, since no other lynch seems viable today.

[UncertainJakutten]

I would only bother with catching up wrt Anthony and Tenshi, since no other lynch seems viable today.

While I've been reading the past three pages, I've been glossing over them. that's the catch up I mean. And honestly, from what I remember of Anthony he's more actively scummy, even if I'm unhappy with his lynch. His vote being blocked is an interesting wrinkle but probably shouldn't factor into anything. I'm unhappier with Angel Milk's lynch mostly because, excuse the really bad argument, it is "too easy". Has anyone opposed it even slightly? (well, I hope to find out)

Now to really get on that thing...

[Pesco]

In your own words would be nice Kilga.

[Kilgamayan]

Why? Everyone else in this game is capable of reading.

[Kilgamayan]

(That is not to imply that you are not. Bit of poor phrasing there.)

[Kiro]

So, 2 hours or so left, Anthony and Tenshi at 4 votes, needing 8 to lynch?

Role roll call time. Anyone else besides UK, Kilga, Pesco, and me around?

[Pesco]

Rou is around. Maybe Anthony, but he's lurkscum so whatever.

Why? Everyone else in this game is capable of reading.

You're not telling us what YOU mean when you say you know why Suwako was voting for you.

[Kilgamayan]

Kiro: They both appear to be at 5.

Can I petition Anthony voters to move to Tenshi? Anthony will at least post, and who knows, he may pull something out of his ass that shows towniness. Tenshi is a completely useless lump that will remain a completely useless lump for the rest of the game.

Pesco: I mean that I read the reasons Suwako provided them and understood them.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Present. Fine with either lynch, but I'd prefer Tenshi right now.

[UncertainJakutten]

Affinity 410 re Tenshi vs. Anthony is about how I feel if we have to choose between them.

Rou 412 is rich

Serpy 414 makes sense...until you look at "two scum bandwagons is only statistically unlikely". Given the interactions between VgT and Suwako, do you think Suwako is scum?

Rou 416 practically states he himself is scummy. Yeah, you were the first of those 4 straight votes!

418 is a fair explanation for Angel Milk being scum showing a Suwako town.

Oh hey, Affinity 419 sees that thing I mentioned.

425 is terribad. Oh, it's Tenshi. No wonder. And he outs what could be a power role. Thanks a lot, Ten. Seriously. I'm suddenly less unenamored with his lynch.

The only problem with Kiro 434 is the CHEEEEEEEEENSAW that revved up with his Suwako/VgT behavior.

Haven't YOU disregarded secondary suspects like Nietz and Pesco and haven't YOU suddenly reduced Day 1 to a 2-lynch race in part by not, say, unvoting if you thought that the pressure was going out of control?  And if you think that way, why aren't YOU questioning the people on the bandwagon yesterday as having disregarded these secondary suspects like me and... yourself?  This admission makes it seem as if you never really thought that Suwako was scummy enough to be lynched and if so, why didn't you unvote in favour of someone else?

This is quite good. IIRC he found Anthony scummier than Suwako and swapped onto Suwako...I think Anthony's alignment may tell us a bit about rou, actually.

Anth 436: WHAT PREVIOUS REASONING ON SERP!? Wasn't that...EVERYONE ELSE'S reasoning?

Besides, by that time there was now a good deal of pressure on Suwako, and removing my vote at that time would've led people to believe I was trying to start a wagon and then disassociate myself with it when it got hot.

So, basically, you are more concerned with your appearance to others than proper scumhunting?

Well, we didn't agree with UncertainKitten's Lynch.

Actually, you started that wagon for reals

Actually, Rou (449), moving your vote gives a better vote history so we can track your actions at a glance. Just sayin'

I'd like to ask Pesco if he thinks Rou is scum. I see a lot of tangling and few opinions.

Don't follow pesco 456. How does this confirm them?

Serpy 459: I await it.

I miss the old UK

:dealwithit:

477 is bad, Zak. Sure, we won't forgive you. So drop it and scumhunt.

Most of the last page gives me a headache. It's mostly just "well, I think this but let's lynch Anthony/Tenshi"

And done.

Yeah, I'll ##Unvote, Vote Anthony, but state a large preference for Rou lynch still exists.



And Kilga, on the flip side, my view is that Anthony has been more actively scummy. Tenshi feels too unopposed.

[Pesco]

Edible's rules only account for a tie and not insufficient votes.

...

What a crap mod.

The wagons are 5 apiece right now. UK's vote makes the numbers if me and Kiro switch to Tenshi or you and Rou switch to Anthony.

Cut: Anthony 6, Tenshi 5