Doctor Wars Mafia - Game Over

[ActionDan]

I thought you were town because I didn't think you could be this stupid as scum.

Then I thought things over a bit and decided you being town didn't make any sense.

None of my speculation thus far has been near stupid.  The miscalculation I could possibly have made at this point is if raikaria is town and there are 3 town prs when I thought 2 would suffice

[NekoNekoRex]

##Vote: SB

I don't think there are two town doctors. For one, flavor is unimportant in this game except that we all have PhDs (or are characters who would have them), and because two town doctors in a Mafia game isn't exactly balanced anyway.

If Dan is the vig, there's no good reason why SB would have survived a kill, except that he's scum with some kind of scum protection.

[Sky_Paladin]

My main concern is that Dan seems to keep driving it as a 1 v 1, which is not the case since it can simply be explained away as 'scum redirected Dan' or 'some other player did something'.  This inability to think outside of the box feels generally off.  It feels like Dan has some other specific knowledge that is impacting his thinking, which I will refer back to in just a moment. 

The only other person who was driving it as a 1 v 1 is Raikaria with his weird beginning of the day antics. 

On day 1 Dan claimed neighbourizer.  Then, he crumbed targeting SB here.

"SB a light will shine on you.  enter the spotlight"

Except, how was that supposed to look day 2 according to Dan's claim?  SB would have been dead.  People would have asked "Hey who did you neighbourize, Dan?" and Dan would have said "Actually I am a vig and I shot SB." 
OR would he have said "I targeted SB but he died :/" thus preventing us from checking his role claim for another day.  If SB is scum and died, Dan would be super town confirmed now, but if SB is town and died, we'd probably be lynching Dan for lying about his claim.  Instead we have a middle ground but Dan is still pushing a 1 v 1. 

Dan didn't get his response for 'action failed' until quite some time after the phase transition, and not until SB had already voted Dan for failing to have mentioned an 'action failed' response. 
Then there's this weird message about getting a second message sent from the mod for a night result that apparently confirms first SB (eventually) as scum. 

And finally, there's this. 

I guess my first question is when do players get two night results for one action...? Dan was told his action failed (in his first message) and then got some kind of confirm guilty (in his second message).  The first time he talked about the second message, he said he couldn't share it because it was a game break.  Well, that was when he thought he got the message incorrectly. 

Now Dan, you told us that the second message does belong to you.  Is there any reason you therefore haven't shared it with the thread? 

At this stage I want to vote ActionDan because his story keeps changing, but Dan said that he has some reason to think SB is scum because of a night result.  Therefore, I want to know what this 'game break' info is, since apparently he is allowed to talk about it, and it can help us determine if it really is a 1 v 1. 

[ActionDan]

you're convoluting a lot of things :/

Three messages in total:

1. a night result PM that says I succeeded in attempting to kill someone
2. a message that denies that BT sends messages to people whom have been targeted for a kill (I thought this would have had to been sent to BT not me)
3. a message that explains message #2 was directed at me and not BT.

at the beginning of the day message #1 had not been sent to me yet. 
sometime after, when I rechecked the thread, I saw both message #1 and message #2 in my inbox.
sometime after, I received message #3.

[ActionDan]

... apparently the 2nd message was meant for me and BT is very confuse at what I was doing in my opening remarks.  herp on him IMO.

Anyway I concede that MAYBE random stuff could have happened and BT is not scum.  BUT YEAH RIGHT.  I wasn't roleblocked and he's not dead.  redirector? maybe but it's pretty OP with a vig + whoever it would have been redirected to isn't dead (and scum aren't going to kill zak twice [unless potentially they thought I was a friendly neighbor and wanted to send me to zak for that reason...]) doc? ok but I don't really believe scum wouldn't doc themselves THOUGH it's possible it's a frame job since I'm alive and they guessed I was going to shoot SB.  STILL it's a lynch I would have wanted anyway and after a MC I'd be town anyway and I'll be the kill the next night

This is me "thinking outside the box" Sky Paladin.  In the end it's likely via roles alone that SB is scum most likely for surviving the vig.  Even if someone a redirector did redirect me, or some other random thing, I'd have still no problem voting SB, since random roles shens wouldn't imply that SB would be more likely to be town from them. 

Right now SB is definitely scum from a claim of a 4th PR + his two incredibly asynchronous posts today.

[Sky_Paladin]

OK.  So I guess we just need to look at the 'succeeded in attempting to kill someone'. 

On MTF we would tell the hitter 'Your hit was blocked' or 'you were sabotaged'.  Some indication that the action failed.  I'm not clear what happens here. 

But your hit succeeded. 

So this would mean - SB is bulletproof or was protected in some way, yes?  We can establish that you weren't redirected on to Zak because: scum hits resolve before vig hits (yes?). 

That means that Zak was a scum hit, not a redirect hit.  I think SB said as much before. 

So far does this line up?

[ActionDan]

all I know is that I wasn't roleblocked in some way.  I could still have been redirected (I asked). 

And I think here all kills resolve simultaneously

[Sky_Paladin]

Well never mind then, I was trying to work something out based on the assumption I could rule out a redirect. 

So let's think about message #2. 
"2. a message that denies that BT sends messages to people whom have been targeted for a kill (I thought this would have had to been sent to BT not me)"

Why would this have been sent to you? 
It wouldn't have been sent to SB because this would basically confirm to a town!SB that he was hit overnight. 

Did you ask for a clarification from BT, which prompted this message?

[ActionDan]

nope.  BT thought that I thought that my target would receive a message from my first two posts.

[ActionDan]

I thought it was meant to be sent to SB if he thought he was targeted for a kill and asked about the meaning of what I said (would imply a scum SB with protection)

[BT]

Votecount 2.4

SB: (2) ActionDan, NekoNekoRex
ActionDan: (2) SB, Raikaria

Not Voting: [3/7] Serela, Sky_Paladin, Darkninjaabc

You have 36 hours. 4 votes are needed for a majority.
(Countdown)

[DNAbc]

I want a SB or Raikaria lynch.

[Raikaria]

And I'd like an SB or an Actiondan lynch, since it's pretty obvious that one of them is scum. I don't think so much he would have been redirected, as much as a Bus Driver is more likely. A redirect I don't think the scum would have sent after the dead player. A bus drive of the dead player and one of them, however, would allow them to bypass any protection as well as mess up anyone targeting Raitaki.

And I dunno, from the looks of this setup so far with a Doc and a Vig and a BP on town, I'd be more inclined to think scum has a Bus Driver than a Redirecter, simply because there's only been one action revealed so far that scum would want to redirect off themselves, while there's two a Bus Driver would help more with.

So basically, either SB is scum and scum has a Bus Driver, who drove SB and Raitaki, or Actiondan is lying. I am pretty sure this is the case.

And as I said before, I feel like Actiondan's prior actions don't make sense is he is a Vig.

However, it is worrying that SB has suddenly entered lurkmode when things get hot for him. Like he dosen't want to get involved and possibly slip up. This is making me have second thoughts, especially combined with the blatant appeasement towards Actiondan he did towards the end of Day 1 when Actiondan FoS'ed him. Almost as if he did not want to be FoS'ed at all, even if it was by connections.

I mean... while I was AD's most solid scumread, he did scumread SB as well, if to a lesser extent, and even theorised me being scumbuddies with him.

Hmm, the more I think about it, the more plausable the fact that Actiondan might have shot SB over me could actually be.

Ah, let's see what happens.

##Unvote
##Vote: SB

[Sky_Paladin]

Raikaria, I'm really confused by your story. 

Raitaki was lynched on day 1.  He couldn't have been bussed night 1.  The first half of your post that ends with "So basically, either SB is scum and scum has a Bus Driver, who drove SB and Raitaki, or Actiondan is lying" seems to be around the idea that somehow scum picked up Raitaki's corpse and used it to block a shot on SB...?

I can't so easily decide between the two.  I was scum reading NNR, most people were scum reading Raikaria, but both of them are voting SB.  It just makes me even more hesitant about voting him. 

SB has been around in the last few hours so it's not like everything you said is invalid, but I'd like you to reconsider the situation. 

[Raikaria]

Raikaria, I'm really confused by your story. 

Raitaki was lynched on day 1.  He couldn't have been bussed night 1.  The first half of your post that ends with "So basically, either SB is scum and scum has a Bus Driver, who drove SB and Raitaki, or Actiondan is lying" seems to be around the idea that somehow scum picked up Raitaki's corpse and used it to block a shot on SB...?

I can't so easily decide between the two.  I was scum reading NNR, most people were scum reading Raikaria, but both of them are voting SB.  It just makes me even more hesitant about voting him. 

SB has been around in the last few hours so it's not like everything you said is invalid, but I'd like you to reconsider the situation.

Oh derp not Raitaki who was bussed; Zakeri.

[DNAbc]

before we do this, please dont put ppl at l1.

and moreover, we need a massclaim before we go into the night

[Serela]

People aren't good at writing down the correct names this game.

Whilst I was defending BT's side of things at the start of the day, after more claims have gone through (and me realizing 2 town docs is kind of -really- strong, plus then Raikaria claimed BP) yeah this does look kind of bad of him.

Wait why was AD good again? Oh yeah, because he crumbed. Yeah nevermind. I just woke up and I mixed things up. I really don't know which I'd rather lynch >_>; I liked SB's d1, so I'd lean towards lynching Dan, but SB claimed PR so I'm pretty interested in what that is considering town already has a good chunk of power claimed.

[Serela]

People aren't good at writing down the correct names this game.

Whilst I was defending BT's side of things at the start of the day

QFT, ActionDan did it so many times that now even -I- can't spell SB correctly ;_;

[Raikaria]

Fine, let's not put at L-1 yet then, although the amount of time that SB has been at L-1 without being hammered makes me think he's even more likely scum. [Scum quickhammering today makes sense, tomorrow would be LYLO, and if AD shot, it would be MYLO. With Serela still alive.]

##Unvote

For all intents and purposes, consider my vote on SB unofficially.

[Serela]

Also, are we really massclaiming or not? It seems kind of iffy. If SB claimed another PR and we -didn't- lynch him over being possible scum I guess there'd be no reason not to, and even if he did get lynched it still wouldn't be too bad...

But you say things like that and then it turns out that wow, town has a lot of power, and we reveal even more roles we probably shouldn't've.

Cut:Raikaria you really are too paranoid about scum seriously trying to quickhammer. No, scum would not bring a ton of suspicion onto themselves by quickhammering SB if he's town. It's not lylo -now-, so they wouldn't do it.

[Raikaria]

Except here's the thing Serela.

If SB is town and scum quickhammer, we are down to 6, with presumerably 2 scum.

Scum nightkill, down to 5 and LYLO. In which case we'd lynch and quickhammer, but we're still at LYLO the next day.

If Actiondan shoots the scum, and it's NOT redirected, we are 3:1 and MYLO.

If Actiondan shoots the scum and it is redirected and kills a townie we lose than and there.

[Raikaria]

So no, I'm not paranoid. There is potential to lose the game tonight if we mislynch.

[Raikaria]

Of course all this is assuming Actiondan really is a Vig.

[DNAbc]

Serela, this is not being paranoid, Raikaria is WIFOMing us and getting himself hyped for the Bus Driver speculation which nobody really commented on.

We call this a guilty response, would lynch Rai over SB at this pt

[DNAbc]

serela, stop wasting time and claim now.

if dan has another shot, he wont tell us obviously
even if dan doesn't, scum has to shoot dan to be safe anyway since they dont know

[Serela]

So no, I'm not paranoid. There is potential to lose the game tonight if we mislynch.

Um... it'd be mylo or something if that was the case. And if the game doesn't end tonight, scum very most likely wouldn't consider quickhammering, unless it was from a scum very likely to kick the bucket soon anyway.

Anyway fine, I'm VT. There's several people who haven't claimed and I'm not going anywhere today (I... think?) so if we weren't fully massclaiming I didn't want to have already jumped at it. :T Also Darkie, Raikaria does these shenanigans pretty regularly, I don't see it as a guilty response that we need to lynch him over.

[SB]

well that happened

I guess I'm not getting out of this without claiming, so meh. I'm another binary doc, and I was on NNR last night. I'm pretty sure I've been insistant on another existing for a while, so yeah. I almost said "everyone self-target D1" in my first post but I'm not allowed to do that which kind of sucks and I think there are 7 less doctors than I thought there would be...

I entered lurkmode because I'm completely demotivated due to the fact that most of the people who were keeping me sane in this game are now dead, one of them for stupid reasons and one of them I considered protecting but then thought that him getting shot wasn't likely. If this sounds harsh, sorry, but I don't know how to explain it any better than that.

Dan is blatantly lying about being a vig. First off, it's ridiculously swingy to put a vig in a 9p likely 7/2 game because it means D2 is MYLO on a misfire, and secondly he's pushing me as scum because I'm not a corpse. Him being town relies on a couple of unlikely scenarios (scum having a redirect while town has a kill in a game this small, or scum having a doc or a bulletproof solely for the sake of dealing with a vig.) Second, if Dan was telling the truth about being a vig it would be MYLO today. I asked him if he was limited shot and he seems to have completely ignored that, but in that case it's more of him just adding to his claim as he goes along. You know, with him not even claiming vig outright at the start?

I have no idea on how this reflects on Raikaria's BPV claim. I disbelieve it on the claim and just the setup in general but at the same time I feel like scum!Rai wouldn't risk throwing in another PR claim at a point when it's likely scum would be expecting at least one more power role to come out of at some point. I guess it could be a potential ruse from scum to throw off theoretical town!Dan from shooting him, but I think I've made how unlikely I feel that is clear.

Also, assess all the claims as if they were in the game alone. BT said that the setup was kind of role-heavy in signups iirc and I was honestly expecting for there to be more roles than there actually seem to be.

[ActionDan]

Dan what.

WHY ARE YOU NOT CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT DOCTORS ARE USUALLY TOWN

This is too stupid.

So I don't think a town SB says this after he votes to kill Raitaki deadline or not after Raitaki claims his exact role.

Oh and if SB was town with that role it'd be reasonable to assume town could have a vig with the amount of protective power him + Raitaki + (possibly Raikaria) could make up

[ActionDan]

secondly no intent to explain why he voted Raitaki considering the above + why not protect the claimed confirmable power role. 

[ActionDan]

o yeah, I'm not limited shot. 

I can fire every night.