Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER

[WHMZakeri]

The key difference between CF7, Me, and Bardiche was when we gave up. CF7 gave up immediately, I gave up halfway through, and Bard Never gave up.

It's all a matter of willpower.

[SB]

I played horribly this game. Welp.

Bard did really well though, so props to him. Setup was cool too I guess.

[Vhaltz]

Also the role that Conq was given in this game was terrible, pretty much equivalent to any percentage-based role only they don't even know what they do.

[Kitten4u]

I'll just repeat what I said on IRC last night.  I haven't been lurking in Mafia for awhile because :effort:, but sometimes I lurk in the QTs if I have access to them.  Reading through what was going on there made me skim the game a bit, and once it was down to 5 players I think I was just reading the thread completely.  The entire endgame was played really well by both sides, and everyone on both sides.

Sky, I know you feel bad because of what happened, and I can't really blame you for it because losing sucks, but I think you played better than you think you did.  If nothing else, you managed to look really town to everyone, which is an important skill on its own.  I think your problem is similar to mine in my early games.  You are very easily caught up in paranoia and small things that don't mean anything.  The chances of you finding a genuine scumslip are so astronomically small that it's not even worth looking for them in my opinion.  You will probably not find contradictions (in fact, I find them in townies just as much as scum), you will probably not have some kind of slam dunk case ever.  It's just a matter of weeding through their words to pick out their motivations.  Townies want to lynch all the scum, and the scum want to lynch anyone but the scum (or at the very least, keep at least one scum alive).  Motivations are the best tool you can use for that reason; that single truth is the only unchanging truth in Mafia.

[Kilgamayan]

You will probably not find contradictions (in fact, I find them in townies just as much as scum)

this is true because you never find them in townies or in scum because you never play :c

[Kitten4u]

this is true because you never find them in townies or in scum because you never play :c

Hey, I played a lot in the past.  I'm just retired or something

[Mr. Sacchi]

I found Sacchi to be by far the strongest player. I literally could not find any angle from which I could say Sacchi was Scum, and that is why the NK happened.

Oh, you flatter me Bard. Still, thanks, I half-expected scum to leave me alive for being Useless!Town, I guess the game being partially centered around my role helped in the decision though. And for whatever it's worth, good luck on your IRL issues Bard.

I feel like I shouldn't say much about this considering it was my first game, but I can't say that the scum team as a whole - only Bard - deserved the victory, I can't say that Town deserved the loss either but the fumbles D5~LYLO were like  :derp: though I doubt I would've done much better than that. I guess it's partially my fault for waking up late on D5 and not being able to contribute before Serela Self-Destructed.

Despite raging a lot on the Dead QT about Sky, honestly he put in infinitely more effort than I would've, and effort is something I that can't go unnoticed, even if the end result was a loss, I have to congratulate all parties involved, I dunno how much this means coming from a newbie, but for what it's worth, the closest to catching scum I was was my scumread on Zak and being "iffy" on Bard, everyone else looked like town.

[Serela]

Also the role that Conq was given in this game was terrible, pretty much equivalent to any percentage-based role only they don't even know what they do.

Dreaming God is a rare exception in that it's a RNG role that isn't implicitly horrible. Day events can add a little interesting stuff here and there, and whilst rng'ing them can lead to questionable results, it's not so bad; honestly, Conq was pretty much VT, but he got to have a little bit of Informed Townie power and to participate in role shenanigans a little, which I think is a really nice way to add roles into a game without worrying about tipping power balances. Although I might feel different if the order of events had ended up different in a more one-side-slanted manner , which would have been possible (albiet unlikely?)

That's from a viewpoint assuming day events would have existed even if no player had been given them, e.g. Shadoweh's game which had daily events through no one's specific doing.

I guess there's also the fact that he was hated, though :V I'm not sure I've ever seen Hated status actually turn into an issue, though, even though it's been used regularly. Dormio's last game where Shadoweh was like triple-hated at one point could have been really lol though

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

nah dreaming god is shit

i don't see why you can't find a way to give town motivation to use day mechanic abilities while also knowing what they are

[Serela]

That'd be fair but only depending on what the day powers actually are. If you know what they are then the mod is limited in what he can give to you, imo

Plus actually gaming the order of the powers could be a thing if they aren't mostly fairly harmless (like kingmaker), etc, Double Lynch Day and Nightskip are pretty powerful tools.

I don't think it's that bad of a role to not know what they are, knowing what they are is also fine it just affects how you balance it (and probably means the day effects will overall be more tame?)

[WHMZakeri]

I dunno, skipping a full day phase after skipping a full night phase is pretty cool.

Sacchi, that might not sound like much catching one scum and being willing to slam another, but it's actually a lot for one townie. This is a team game after all, even if you can't trust your teammates.

Also, I think it's super cool that we have like 3+ Retired mafiosi that just sit around watching games and coaching the lesser experienced players, like, it's like we have some sort of rich history or something.

[Bardiche]

>Mostly harmless
>Kingmaker
Oh Serela.

[Pesco]

[23:45:57] <oarfish> although Dormio seems to actively put troll roles into his games

Lrn2DtB. Kyuubey was a troll role and I have no regrets of it.

[Serela]

I could argue PoS' paranoid gun owner was a troll role ;_;

Kyuubey was glorious, though.

Anyway that irc discussion was mostly about "so why don't you want people to game your setup?" and I wish I was there because I feel the point was never really gotten through to o4rfish ;_; MotK has issues with Going Off The Deep End and killing themselves on it, basically. Several people have learned, though :D

[Vhaltz]

If anybody wanted to have day or night phase changes happen at random in their setup they could literally just roll a die to have them happen every time a day phase starts instead of giving it to somebody as a useless PR. "Getting to participate in role shenanigans" is not really a good thing unless you can actually do things the way you want to do them, just like having a vote but having it cast at random instead of where you want it to go.

And in the case that you're going to give out a power like that, then at least make sure that negative modifiers are given to the roles that can actually choose the things they do so that nobody gets a PM that's worse than "you're a VT".

[Conqueror]

I remember when  Shadoweh gave Bard the only worse-than-VT-role in an otherwise functional vanilla game, was glorious.

[Serela]

The hated part was questionable, yes. However, it might be balanced if you consider claiming dreaming god will probably make some people clear you as town.

"Getting to participate in role shenanigans" is not really a good thing unless you can actually do things the way you want to do them, just like having a vote but having it cast at random instead of where you want it to

This is a really bad example. "Not knowing what the day effects are is like not being able to control your vote" is taking things waaaaay out of proportion :V Basically, it's okay because It's Better Than VT in terms of "horray rolez" but it doesn't really have a big impact on power balance in comparison to selecting day events by real rng instead.

Role madness games with roles like this are better than role madness games where everyone's powers are actually kinda pretty strong. Balancing power with more power is usually a terrible idea, but it's fun to be able to give everyone -some- kind of alright role. Plus the claim power is -something-, even if it's mostly a meta kind of power.

cut by oh god yeah that was pretty hilari-bad. She immediately changed it to remove the voteless part. >_>;

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

If you want to say shit about my setup, say it to me while I'm around and I'll explain why I made the choices I did instead of being a whiny little bitch behind my back and making everyone have a bad time.
That is all.

[Vhaltz]

All I'm saying is that it helps to review that modifiers for setup balance don't end up screwing one particular guy in the game. It might be funny later on but nobody likes getting the short end of the stick while the game is running and everybody else gets cool stuff.

I don't see the reason to take it so personally when I'm leaving it out here instead of trash talking on IRC or whatever.

[Serela]

He wasn't talking about you.

You could argue SkyPal was getting the short end of the stick for awhile, by the way :V

Anyway, I have a feeling I'm not the only one who basically handwaved Conq as town for being the Dreaming God, at least until EVERYONE WAS TOWN OH GOD WHY

[Sky_Paladin]

I decided that by signing up to Dormio's game I was subjecting myself to his version of balance.  There was also oversight in the form of K4U checking the roles. 

I personally disagree with his interpretation on the vanilla/not vanilla scenario but I don't think the game was unbalanced or overpowered in any way because of it.  In the end it is just that - a personal disagreement - and nothing more.  I was happy to play in Dormio's game and ultimately snatch defeat out from the jaws of victory.  Damn it. 

Man I am so bad at using town power roles.  I keep vigging obv town and detective checking people that die at the same time.  Next time watch me roll a doctor and save a scum. 

[Conqueror]

Dormio is actually talking to oarfish. Way to be ambiguous and make everyone think you're yelling at them Dormio.

[Serela]

Next time watch me roll a doctor and save a scum. 

Poor Dormio. Maybe one day he'll be a kevorkian doc and his immense accuracy at targetting scum with it will come in handy.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I don't understand doctors. You are meant to target the scum with them right?

[Shadoweh]

The thing about tying the Day effects to a player is it leaves an easy way to shut them off.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

And, yeah, Vhaltz that wasn't directed at you.
Although I am the type of guy that absolutely hates whenever anybody says shit about me behind my back.
I'm quite open with my opinions and have no qualms with telling others about them and get very annoyed when the same isn't done for me.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

dormio sux

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

u sux (me) :blush:

[ActionDan]

u sux (me) :blush:

go on

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I'd Definitely Dormio. all homo