Medaka Box Mafia - Night 4

[SB]

(also i'm doing that content thin now, bear with me)

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Votecount
O4rfish (4): Bardiche, Shadoweh, Sky Paladin, Sacchi Hikaru
SB (2): O4rfish, Serela
Sky Paladin (1): NekoNekoRex
BT (1): Zakeri
Zakeri (1): ActionDan
Conqueror (0):
Serela (0):
NekoNekoRex (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Sacchi Hikaru (0):
ActionDan (0):
Bardiche (0):

Not voting: Conqueror, BT, SB

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

You have ~15.3 hours remaining.

[SB]

I don't like Bard much anymore, looking back. His D1 was basically Serela Serela Serela and a couple of posts on others that basically amounted to nullreads. He picked up D2 but then his content is basically a tunnel on Kingault for the stuff he used to argue against CF7's lynch yesterday. I know CF7 flipped scum, but that doesn't mean that the scumtell or towntell is completely rendered invalid. The rest of his reads are basically one liners saying that he should read into people more closely but then sort of doesn't.

Suppose Sky Paladin is gone. He is not an option. Who is scum and why?

He says this about O4rfish but then continues the tunnel himself. Imo Bard is scum who decided they would try and coast through the game tunneling Serela but then due to him being a counterwagon decides that it was no longer viable.

I am a lazy man and pretty much agree with what BT posted about O4rfish. His play today seems more like he's desperately trying to survive (see sudden wagon jump to me once I became a thing) and the reasoning behind it was awful. Would support a lynch here, but no more words because I should probably do homework soon.

Trying to read BT overall though is like bashing my head into a wall, there are parts of his post that make me think that he's scum (mostly his interactions with CF7) but if I try and take it beyond that it just feels like I'm forcing the case rather than actually believing in it. Stupid Ascetic makes things harder.

Conq is also pretty weird. He has a really passive D1, and his BT read seems kind of forced? Having different reads than you doesn't make a person scum after all, they can be town with a different perspective. I also find it kind of weird how despite all the time you spent defending CF7, it felt like you weren't actually responding to the attackers? I dunno how to word this, but the only person I remember you calling out on it explicitly was BT, whereas everyone else it seemed to be like you were being sort of passive and not trying to get on anyone's bad sides? Even against Shadoweh who he seems to be pushing as scum, it feels like he's just sort of saying "you're wrong" and using meta to justify the vote. His Kingault vote is also pretty much meta motivated as far as I can tell, and honestly looks more like a prodvote than "yo this guy is scum" vote. His constant mention of CF7 as null over town also pings me, if the case is bad and scummy, why should the alignment matter of CF7 if he hasn't flipped yet? Couldn't it just be that scum is trying to push a bus case and is failing to make it look legit? I don't really know how to describe his D2 tbh, it feels just sort of lackluster? I feel like he's spending a disproportionate amount of time on Kingault (who Wasn't Actually Posting I might add) over Sky who seemed to be his primary scumread at the time? I get the not voting thing to stop a quickhammer, but still.

Basically I think Conqueror is scum and a lot of his posts seem erm, articial I guess? But words are horrible.

##Vote: Conqueror

[BT]

Conq: Yes.

I'm reading Zak's ISO and I'm on the fence. The point I made a few days ago about Zak correctly gauging CF7's scumminess and whether or not to keep the vote on him could easily come from scum who's keeping himself aware of how scummy his buddy is. I'm trying to judge between parts that seem really townie like -

To be honest, my vote on Serela was kind of a votepark at the time, mostly because like I said I gave up hope of Cf7 improving. That, and also the fact that I pretty much have to force a scum read on Serela because I can't seem to think he's anything other than town no matter what his alignment is. Even now my stance is "Okay, let's lynch Sere-WHAT ARE ALL OF YOU OTHER PEOPLE DOING AAUGH".

And parts that seem incriminating in hindsight, like -

Uhh, no He didn't. You specifically asked  Which is a question directly asking about his role. Conqueror's Question is open-ended  It's a Yes or no question, with the implications that the answerer would put down a reason if they had one. Conq doesn't imply the reasoning has to do with King's Role.

The "rolefishing" feels like he stumbled accidentally without realizing it, and the vote on Rawr is null for me, but the way CF7 is trying to handle the pressure from people calling out his rolefishing feels scummy to me.
##Unvote: Rawr
##Vote: CF7

CF7 it would help if you pointed out the parts of Rawr's posts that seem off so other people could comment on it.

@Zak.
Both questions are implying some self-profit from self-voting. And both are questioning reasons for self-voting. Somehow mine is scummy and Conq's is not.

For CF7's sake I would accept actually pointing out something that felt 'off' rather then a blaze it just does.

quoting this so CF7 can read it again in case he scoffed and/or ignored it in Shadoweh's post above.

How should i say. It just feels weird. Call it guts. For example SB claimed ascetic. Rawr says that claim is weird based on Rawr's own role. There might be 2 ascetics, sure, but on other hand Rawr never said that he's ascetic. Then there were posts about figuring out roles of some people. It's D1 no info and it's rolemadness so any role can has any alignment and all that. Maybe he's just extremely knowlegable of Medaka Box, i don't know. And all this. I dunno. As i said, weird.

It honestly feels like a solid buddy conversation on CF7's part. It's also pretty interesting that Zak's take on my CF7 opinion is pretty similar to what I'd say to his if not better. Zak slams CF7 pretty hard in #165 (as I've said before) with regards to the points he brings up, but before this he's been waiting on CF7 to explain himself (the convo above) and ever since he's parked his vote on Serela, while saying -

Top scum picks are in order of mention CF7, Sky, and Serela for now. I don't feel like CF7 is going to answer to any more questions just from keeping a pressure vote on him, but I'm still willing to switch back if he doesn't find new scumreads to talk about.

So If I'm reading right, the wagon's are between a guy that's had the case stick around since ed1 and a case where half of the people voted because mod shenanigans.

I would rather CF7 had voted for King, even though I'm still pretty convinced King is town. Shadoweh is right when she says CF7 is too apathetic.

To be honest, my vote on Serela was kind of a votepark at the time, mostly because like I said I gave up hope of Cf7 improving.

...Actually, I hate this, a lot. Specifically the first quote, since he doesn't actually go and do as he promised - he doesn't review CF7's newer posts and doesn't revote from Serela to CF7. The second and fourth quotes make me itch because, as I said, I thought his CF7 vote was strong, calling him out on things that go beyond "he's not doing enough", so those quotes don't feel like they're coming from the same person. The third one's just a typical paranoid thought that he would be more concious about his buddy's votes as scum.

Even despite all this I have a hard time seeing Zak as scum. His posts don't feel fake in any way and I wouldn't have had such a hard time if it wasn't for the above connections. So I'm just going to ask some questions and see how that goes. I'll do it in a different post.

[Conqueror]

Having different reads doesn't make someone scum, but if I can't follow that person's thought process it's a good sign they might be faking them. It's a tool that I've often and successfully.

Re: not getting on people's bad side. Contrary to popular belief, I don't actually like getting into heated walls of rhetoric.  Also, what do you mean by not responding to CF7's attackers?
The Shadoweh vote, as I've stated before, wasn't about CF7. It was about the way Shadoweh was pushing CF7. The Kingault vote was never a meta vote, but I brought up meta for people who like that sort of stuff.

His constant mention of CF7 as null over town also pings me, if the case is bad and scummy, why should the alignment matter of CF7 if he hasn't flipped yet? Couldn't it just be that scum is trying to push a bus case and is failing to make it look legit?

If scum is trying to push a bad bus case then why not lynch the scum making the bad bus case? In any case, it's far more likely the scum make bad cases on town, so I don't know what you're trying to get at here?

I feel like he's spending a disproportionate amount of time on Kingault (who Wasn't Actually Posting I might add) over Sky who seemed to be his primary scumread at the time?

I actually haven't spent that much time on either if you look at my posts, I've been busy with not!mafia. But even if I was spending more time on Kingault over Sky, what does that have to do with anything?

As for not voting, if discussion is going well enough without my vote and I've made my positions clear then I'm fine with holding off on my vote if I feel there are already lots of people on a wagon. See me in Utena mafia.

[Conqueror]

ebwop: I said that CF7 was a null read to me because he was. I didn't think his posting was scummy, but I didn't think it was townie.  :derp:

[Conqueror]

Oh, and yeah, Oarfish should claim.

[BT]

BT's flavor hunt is super weird for me, especially after writing Sky off as a convenient mislynch.
Wait, nevermind I'm lost. I remembers BT attacking him, saw he wasn't attacking him, and then caught back up to the post were BT just throws out a "So detatched and scummy it hurts." What about Sky's post being detatched make it scummy, and what were the scum-motivated points you saw?

What felt weird to you about all that? All you're really doing is saying what I did. I suspected him but still feared he was town, I questioned him about flavor because VT seemed like a plausible Lazy Scum fake and, actually, I did give an example for what I meant by detached and scum-motivated - that he was trying to bring up dirt on people regardless of the state of the game or whether it makes sense or not or even if it fits the opinions he claims to have. So, yeah, what felt "weird" about that?

BT's initial vote is to just get CF7 to explain himself. It almost kind of feels like he's hoping CF7 would come back and absolve the need to vote him. The "Read Quota" line in post 203 kind of comes off as a "*nudge nudge*" towards CF7 to try and make more posts. It's also kind of weird that he opens dialogs on six different people, but like Serela noted two posts below, it might have just been an effect of having to catch up. BT's commitment to the CF7 case also solidifies in post 224, which happens right after CF7 posts "I give up, vote: some random guy".

What made you interpret my initial vote like that? Fact-checking is making my frown deepen. The last bit isn't true at all as far as I can tell, so all the same, tell me how you reached that conclusion too. I also pretty much explained the read quota thing to Conq when he explicitly asked about it so you have no excuse for getting it exactly wrong (I was calling him out for bullshitting content, not nudging him for MORE fake content). Why did you never read my back-and-forth with Conq all this time?

I would like to point out that in addition to [BT] being the second most likely busser on CF7's wagon, There was the period where he was supposedly AFK but had enough time to participate in roleshens on day one.

I still don't see what's wrong with this. What's wrong with this? And who's the winner of the most likely busser contest? What's making you vote me instead of him?

I'll read SB's posts as well as Conq's now I guess.

[BT]

First quick question - SB, how are you sheeping me after saying Bard's scum who's been tunneling on Serela and then Kingfish? They're not both scum.

[SB]

It's unlikely that both are scum now, yeah, but I think both players are scummy and until one flips mafia I'll probably still be suspicious of both of them.

Response to Conq is coming now.

[BT]

First quick question - SB, how are you sheeping me after saying Bard's scum who's been tunneling on Serela and then Kingfish? They're not both scum.

I'm silly, I thought you were voting Oarfish. Though I guess the question still stands.

As for your Conq case, you're right about him taking a neutral stance on CF7. In fact, I had other reasons for disliking said stance and I mentioned them on D1. I don't think he's scum, though? Something to do with how his scumhunting is sort of flexible. Not sure how to word it exactly. Yeah I have no idea how to word this. "I'll try later."

[O4rfish]

Not sure how claiming will do anything but speed the game up by like ten hours, but whatever.
Gagamaru Chougasaki. My power is a night action, targeted redirect from me to my target. King targeted Serela n1.

[Bardiche]

He says this about O4rfish but then continues the tunnel himself. Imo Bard is scum who decided they would try and coast through the game tunneling Serela but then due to him being a counterwagon decides that it was no longer viable.

Way to take it out of context. O4rfish was building cases based on the idea that Sky Paladin has already flipped Scum. This is why I asked him to create cases without even assuming the existence of Sky Paladin.
"Scum tunnelling Serela" only works if that's what I am doing.

I pretty plainly stated I did not want to lynch Sky Paladin or Shadoweh Day 1, not sure how that is "null reading". "Tunnelling" isn't necessarily scum, so explain to me how my vote on Serela D1 is scum-motivated.

[Bardiche]

O4rfish claim: Does nothing for me.

[WHMZakeri]

How can scum stand to write all these walls

I can't.

Who are you talking to zak in your last paragraph?

Oarfish.

BT is right in that I don't really have a follow post about his case. Also his recent posting responding to Oarfish and Sky don't feel like they have scum intent in them.

Meanwhile, SB responding to Sky's read by quotestripping every line, with half of them being more AtE potshots.

Your post did though, even though you're, you know, supposed to be a VT and there'd been a severe lack of flips at that point.

Are you really trying to push this? Like, for serious?

And for all the size that post has amassed, you're main defense is "I've bussed scumbuddies in past games, which obviously means I will never ever in a million years and especially not in this game ever try to defend one of my buddies from the lynch on day one." Which isn't as absolute of a defense as you're trying to imply it is.

##Unvote: BT
##Vote: SB

With the claim, I'd actually want to lynch SB before Oarfish. Considering scum lost a nightkill, it's only fair they'd have a role that would cost us a lynch.

Cut: No comments about the case on Conq, except that I'd need more evidence that distancing himself from the argument while contributing to it in order to take a serious look at it.

BT: I can't say anything about how CF7 spoke, but the thing about not switching back is that I went to bed right after Conq voted him to L-1, and there was still four hours left. I think there were still people who had something to chime in, so I didn't want to cut them off just because I was too tired to stay up until deadline.

The Weird part was just me not understanding you going from Convenient Mislynch to Scum motivated. Actually, I suppose looking back at it, you said it was a niggling feeling rather than your opinion, so part of my confusion might have been reading it wrong.
Even if you link the post that gave you the feeling you mentioned, it doesn't actually explain to me what was scum-motivated. I don't see it in that post, and being detached by itself isn't scummy (I try to remain detached all the time).
Edit: wait, was it the list of alerts was what looked scum motivated? I actually thought it was a good enough town tactic, since it suggested he was interested in looking more into people and keeping notes to remember his feelings.

I think what caused me to read the vote like that was going through the game with the preconception of "Does this make sense if X was scum with CF7" and that's how it made sense to me. I don't have any evidence to suggest that my interpretation is more likely than the one you're trying to demonstrate, even if I still feel it's true, and other people have since talked me down from it.

This bus winner was of course Kingault, but everyone's already wagoning Oarfish and I was focusing on newer content.

Cut:
Hi Bard
I'm going to go ahead and post now. I don't think BT is town quite yet but my read on him is reversed enough to not be high priority.

[O4rfish]

Dormio that doesn't even fit with the flavor.

[O4rfish]

So apparently my role is NOT a redirect, but some sort of duplication where my target experiences the same effects I experience. No idea what would happen if I got investigated.

[BT]

Dormio should stop trying to fix every little thing going on, it's ultimately worse than letting the players deal with their own mistakes because it results in mod intervention like this. I could claim that Oar just got a lot more townie.

Oarfish, just claim exactly what your role is called. Again, like rawr was the Abnormal Backup.

IMO the target would be scanned as well. That's really nifty, you know.

[SB]

Having different reads doesn't make someone scum, but if I can't follow that person's thought process it's a good sign they might be faking them. It's a tool that I've often and successfully.

I can't follow Dan's thought process ever. Does that make him scum?

Re: not getting on people's bad side. Contrary to popular belief, I don't actually like getting into heated walls of rhetoric.  Also, what do you mean by not responding to CF7's attackers?

I guess the first part is good point. If you thought CF7 was null but the cases on him were bad, it felt like it would make more sense for you to refute the cases rather than defend the slot. I dunno.

The Shadoweh vote, as I've stated before, wasn't about CF7. It was about the way Shadoweh was pushing CF7. The Kingault vote was never a meta vote, but I brought up meta for people who like that sort of stuff.

Okay, I think I misread this part then? Welp.

Also the thing about how you kept repeating CF7 was null struck me as kind of odd, like you were trying to sort of reduce the ties between the two of you which would be pretty much scum motivated.

If scum is trying to push a bad bus case then why not lynch the scum making the bad bus case? In any case, it's far more likely the scum make bad cases on town, so I don't know what you're trying to get at here?

Scum can make bad cases on their buddies in order to give them towncred if something goes horribly wrong and they get lynched instead. ...Although I don't entirely remember either.

I actually haven't spent that much time on either if you look at my posts, I've been busy with not!mafia. But even if I was spending more time on Kingault over Sky, what does that have to do with anything?

Sky is active and supposed to be your primary scumread. Kingault was inactive and a lesser scumread, which seems really odd that you would focus on him rather than Sky.

As for not voting, if discussion is going well enough without my vote and I've made my positions clear then I'm fine with holding off on my vote if I feel there are already lots of people on a wagon. See me in Utena mafia.

I'm pretty sure I implied that you not voting wasn't scummy but okay?

Meanwhile, SB responding to Sky's read by quotestripping every line, with half of them being more AtE potshots.
Are you really trying to push this? Like, for serious?

And for all the size that post has amassed, you're main defense is "I've bussed scumbuddies in past games, which obviously means I will never ever in a million years and especially not in this game ever try to defend one of my buddies from the lynch on day one." Which isn't as absolute of a defense as you're trying to imply it is.

If it comes across as AtEish oops, I was kind of annoyed because I thought the case was awful and never actually stopped to think "what if the read is wrong". I'm quotestripping because it's easier to follow than just writing a paragraph, why is that a problem? And yes, I'm still half entertaining the idea of SkyPaladin's role fooling whatever Shadoweh has on him.

No, my defense is that basically his entire case is that I'm scum who hard defended my buddy rather than just using my fucking governor in order to save him, or better yet, just cancel day 1 altogether and leave town extremely confused and force them to random pretty much everything while we got an extra kill. And just because X balances out Y doesn't mean X and Y can't both be town, especially considering town can use a governor to defend themselves or a strong townread from being lynched. Also denying town a lynch while also having a mafia role with an extra kill seems sort of strong. My scum meta only supports the fact that I'm town.

I feel sort of better about Conq now I guess due to the response. I'll be around to change my vote before phase end anyway unless overnight quickhammers end up happening.

I was gonna say the original roleclaim from O4rfish sounded like scum but after the addendum it sounds townier I guess, doubling town's investigations probably isn't a thing scum wants, if that part can be proven.

[O4rfish]

So ... there's apparently no rule about quoting mod PMs.
Welcome, O4rfish, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Gagamaru Chougasaki, Unexpected Accident(Action Reflector)

People are treating the popularity contest like a game, toying with the results to meet their own ends. And everybody knows that games are a complete waste of time and the reason for humanity's decline in productivity. And so, you will purge the world of these gamers.
Gagamaru Chougasaki placed 14th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:
Encounter (Minus): Not once have you ever experienced a single wound, physical or mental. Your minus, Encounter, allows you to push away any damage that you would take away from yourself. Every night, you may target a player of your choice and have that player experience every action you do.

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.

and it doesn't even make sense. "Not once have you ever experienced a single wound" so how exactly would this ability let me do that?
This is making me think SkyPal could be right, and we should lynch Dormio after the game ends.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Forsooth!
Hast thou taken leave of thy senses?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

RULES
1) You may not directly quote any communications with the moderator. Paraphrasing is allowed, but run it by the moderator first if you feel that it is too similar to the original content.

O4rfish has been modkilled.

Day 2 has ended.

It is now Night 2, you have 0 hours to send in any night actions that you may or may not have.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

The third day of the popularity contest has begun!

"It never happened to begin with."
The current day phase will last 72 hours less than usual.

Votecount
Conqueror (0):
Serela (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Zakeri (0):
NekoNekoRex (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Sacchi Hikaru (0):
ActionDan (0):
SB (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):

Not voting: Everybody

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

You have 0 hours remaining.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Day 3 has ended with no lynch.

It is now Night 3, you have 24 hours to send in any night actions that you may or may not have.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

To avoid any confusion, the consequences of a modkill are as follows:

• The player being modkilled will be immediately removed from the game.
• The player being modkilled can under no circumstances reach a win state.
• Other players will not be affected other than the modkill acting as the lynch for the current day phase.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

"What are you doing in our school? You're far too old to be a student here! Get out!"
Having managed to capture NekoNekoRex, her captor's wanted to see if they could remove a player through more peaceful methods.
"Well, don't I look young enough to be a student here?"
"If we were to go purely by looks, then you're too young to be a student here! Get out!"
NekoNekoRex - Hitomi Hitoyoshi, MILF(Neighbour) was forcibly removed from the game N3!

Motherly Love (Abnormality): You know that your son has grown into a respectable adult, but as his mother you simply can't help but continue to dote on him. As a result, you know that Zenkichi Hideyoshi is in this game and may communicate with him at any time here.

The fourth day of the popularity contest has begun!

"And here's some fanservice for our viewers."
Today will use a variant of the usual Kingmaker rules. The voting system will be used to elect a king, who will then decide on the day's lynch.

Votecount
Conqueror (0):
Serela (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Zakeri (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Sacchi Hikaru (0):
ActionDan (0):
SB (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):

Not voting: Everybody

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to make a king.

You have ~72 hours remaining.

[Conqueror]

Okay, looks like there's some sort of dreaming god hanging around.

I don't think SB is scum. Don't think it's BT either. Will probably push for a Zak lynch.

Would support making Shadoweh/Dan/Sacchi(lol) king. Sky, did you get anything overnight?

[Conqueror]

Also to SB from yesterday: I can usually follow Dan's thought processes. :V That's why I said it's a tool that works for me.

[Shadoweh]

>_> I am seriously wondering if someone is causing these or not. That last disaster would have made a pretty inventive scum ability.
Okay, so you're not getting much more of me for quite a few hours, but I feel the need to comment, let's not turn this game into Night of the Vampire aka Night of the Violent hatred everywhere 2.0, calm townie thoughts. <^_^> There isn't half as much confusion to deserve what happened yesterday.

[Conqueror]

I'm causing them. :V