Welcome, Dormio, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Kamome Tsurubami, The One Closest to being the Main Character(Action-Immune Serial-Killing Paranoid Gun Owner)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Kamome_Tsurubami.png)
You, the Dark Hero, deserve to be the main character instead of that spineless Shonen Jump fanatic. However, as much as you would like to demonstrate how deserving you are of the title 「Main Character」, this popularity poll is not the way to do it. You don't want to be associated with an immature brand like Shonen Jump after all. You'll just let the others fight out this particular battle. There's always next time, after all.
As the one closest to being the main character, you obviously hold several powers in addition to your ability to post in thread and vote:
- Combat Expert (General): You have the ability to recognize and counter any attack before it even begins and possess inhuman reaction speed to compliment this ability. Naturally, this proves to be exceptionally useful in combat. Your expertise will allow you to get the upper hand on anyone that would attempt to target you and kill them. In addition to this, you may make your very own attempt to kill a player of your choice every night.
- Kamome System (Abnormality/Minus/Style): The Kamome System is what makes you the strongest student within all of Hakoniwa Academy. Formed by combining your Abnormality 「Spinning Angler」, Minus 「Octopus」, and Style 「Provocations User」, the Kamome System allows you stop anyone in their tracks. The Kamome System will allow you to prevent any and all actions that target you during both the day and night phase from taking effect.
You win when every other player has been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from happening. Best of luck.
##Vote: NekoNekoRexWhat? I made the fist post of the day. I've been sitting here for hours waiting for people to post.
Was active after day began, did not post. Obvious lurker scum is obvious.
Nah, I have every reason to selfvote.Oh that happens. Do you get some special stuff for selfvoting?
Like misreading my own role pm.
Oh that happens. Do you get some special stuff for selfvoting?or maybe hes gets cool powers when people vote him or possibly something cool will happen when hes lynched
##Unvotepolicy lynches arent
##Vote: Dr Rawr
What happened to "Voting is too mainstream"?
Oh that happens. Do you get some special stuff for selfvoting?##Unvote
What happened to "Voting is too mainstream"?So you're voting him for actually trying to get out of RVS now?
Thirdly, @mod, where are the fruits of my labor?They would need to exist in order to have a location.
policy lynches
So you're voting him for actually trying to get out of RVS now?
I'm voting him for contradicting himself. But this is RVS. :Vwas RVS.
Rolefishing.
Why is Rawr not guilty of the same thing?Because I dont really care about your role
Oh, by the way, I'm ascetic. Don't target me unless you want your action to fail.
I find this rather stange!I find it rather plain.
What's strange about it Dan? I mean claiming Ascetic immediately is roughly along the same lines as claiming Miller
I swear if Bard just actually vigged meThat would have been FUCKING AMAZING but you are lucky.
Sacchi Hikaru (1): Conqueror
Wouldn't this be WIFOM though?
That would have been FUCKING AMAZING but you are lucky.Further proof there is still no god.
Again.
##Unvote/shrug
##Vote: CF7
Rolefishing.
@Kingault: Were you trying to achieve anything specifically with your self-vote? Just wondering, as SB already did it before you.Also, Conq here does the same thing, let's all vote him for it.
Also I'm not voting because I don't think anybody is worth voting right now. Just to clarify.This is a bad mindset to have. Vote the person who you think is most scummy. It's that simple. Use your gut if you need to, sometimes that itself can be a plenty good reason.
/shrugDon't ask, don't tell.
I just asked a question.
Also, Conq here does the same thing, let's all vote him for it.Are you gonna start voting seriously also, any time soon?
i have flavor speculation rolling around in my head so im currently leaning more town for you guys.Well, you really shouldn't.
inb4 someone calls me out on this ^
tbh i missed having a qt since it let me post my useless babbleIn all seriousness, considering the main thing people bring against you is lurking, post your useless babble in thread.
Don't ask, don't tell.I'm still undecided.
Are you gonna start voting seriously also, any time soon?
CF7 smells more of noob than scummy, considering how super obvious the rolefish there is. Voting there also smells opportunistic to be honest.
i have flavor speculation rolling around in my head so im currently leaning more town for you guys.
inb4 someone calls me out on this ^
Shadoweh should post why she's voting. BT, is that a prodvote or a serious suspicion?Generally when a post is followed by an immediate vote, one can assume the whole of the terrible, terrible post is the cause.
NNR feels off to me. I feel like he's trying too hard to look like he's contributing and force people into making solid votes when they don't have any reason to with no reads.No opinions are just as bad as having terrible opinions. We're out of RVS, and if people are going to hunt scum they should have a vote down.
Not a lot's happened so not having a serious vote is perfectly acceptable, and you look like you're basically trying to push people as scum for not having reads, but then they're the only reads that you have, which doesn't really work.Since it's so soon out of RVS, I'm not asking for a rock solid vote, just one that isn't a joke.
Also, Conq here does the same thing, let's all vote him for itand for generally being wishy-washy and reliant on rolespec.
i also agree with shadoweh that his vote also seems kind of like a lazy asspull that he only did in response to my prod.Because as i said i'm still undecided. So far nothing much happened. And Rarw posts seem kind off to me. So that's pretty much it.
/shrugUhh, no He didn't. You specifically asked
I just asked a question. Also, Conq here does the same thing, let's all vote him for it.
Do you get some special stuff for selfvoting?Which is a question directly asking about his role. Conqueror's Question is open-ended
Were you trying to achieve anything specifically with your self-vote?It's a Yes or no question, with the implications that the answerer would put down a reason if they had one. Conq doesn't imply the reasoning has to do with King's Role.
Generally when a post is followed by an immediate vote, one can assume the whole of the terrible, terrible post is the cause.
Waffling on Conq's Schrodinger's Hated Alignment is the epitome of wasted words.
Also Rawr's post aren't weird, they're Rawr-y. Why didn't you ask CF7 the same question considering his vote reason is just as non-existant, but disguised behind a paragraph of nonsense?
No opinions are just as bad as having terrible opinions. We're out of RVS, and if people are going to hunt scum they should have a vote down. Since it's so soon out of RVS, I'm not asking for a rock solid vote, just one that isn't a joke.
It's an easy litmus test for scum, town are more likely to be paranoid and vote everything that moves at the beginning.
@Kingault: Were you trying to achieve anything specifically with your self-vote? Just wondering, as SB already did it before you.
I wanted to get my joke vote out of the way.>:V Hey Kingu what do you think of voting Conq over it, maybe he is scum looking for your mislynch.
[conspiracymode] Why do you call me out on this? Are you perhaps scum, trying to pin someone else for even the smallest thing?[/conspiracy]
Town aren't always going to be more paranoid earlygame, you get tryhard scum fishing for early towncred for breaking out of RVS and stuff like that.
For CF7's sake I would accept actually pointing out something that felt 'off' rather then a blaze it just does.quoting this so CF7 can read it again in case he scoffed and/or ignored it in Shadoweh's post above.
For CF7's sake I would accept actually pointing out something that felt 'off' rather then a blaze it just does.How should i say. It just feels weird. Call it guts. For example SB claimed ascetic. Rawr says that claim is weird based on Rawr's own role. There might be 2 ascetics, sure, but on other hand Rawr never said that he's ascetic. Then there were posts about figuring out roles of some people. It's D1 no info and it's rolemadness so any role can has any alignment and all that. Maybe he's just extremely knowlegable of Medaka Box, i don't know. And all this. I dunno. As i said, weird.
I think CF7 is a townie who posted carelessly and got wagoned for it, tbh. The rolefish is pretty much like what Zak described, and then it sort of escalated and he just seems annoyed that nobody applied the same logic to Conq. It didn't look like he was trying to smear Conq so much as call people out for inconsistent scumhunting.Actually, he's not calling anyone out for it. Therein lies the problem.
How should i say. It just feels weird. Call it guts. For example SB claimed ascetic. Rawr says that claim is weird based on Rawr's own role. There might be 2 ascetics, sure, but on other hand Rawr never said that he's ascetic. Then there were posts about figuring out roles of some people. It's D1 no info and it's rolemadness so any role can has any alignment and all that. Maybe he's just extremely knowlegable of Medaka Box, i don't know. And all this. I dunno. As i said, weird.So you notice rawr doing weird stuff because maybe he has knowledge or... whatever it is you're trying to say. Why would that make him scum? It feels like you voted him because he was doing weird stuff and your explanation now failed to deliver when people called you out for it.
CUT: I'd like rawr's thoughts on my interpretation, then. By the way, flavor knowledge or not, I didn't say anything about my flavor, so how can you know who my character is, or Conq's?oh, yeah, I did think this stuff was super weird too
Ducks
##unvote
##vote: BT
Feels like scum adding fuel to the fire by nit picking at cf7 post
Cut-
@BT because WUMBO FLAVOR was used in this game and I'm surprised my phone s spell check didn't catch wumbo
>:V Hey Kingu what do you think of voting Conq over it, maybe he is scum looking for your mislynch.
How about CF7? He's pretty annoyed, could be scum, tell us about it.
We're a little past jokey now, let's hear some non-joke's thoughts.
but the way CF7 is trying to handle the pressure from people calling out his rolefishing feels scummy to me.What would be a townie way for him to handle the pressure?
Kingault, time for joke votes is over, game has started. B) Let's get a move on.
yeah, that bit was posted before I read your post before me. respond to the post after it. :VNo, but maybe they were acting like a noob on purpose to make people think they were just being a noob instead of scum.
DrRawr/Conq/SB... yeah I've no clue.Also, since you posted this, I was wondering if you could elaborate on it a little. Doesn't matter if you think it doesn't make much sense. Just trying to figure out what you were thinking when you posted it.
My real question to you is whether or not you think CF7 is "actually a noob," or at least in the way you're using that word. Because if he is, then it wouldn't be amiss of him to be acting like a noob, right?
I think you are a cool dude, but I think BT's summary is more or less accurateim pretty sure anyone has the ability to summarize peoples actions and make then sounds scummy. also actiondan since you seem to agree with BT on cf7 do you think hes scum? im just wondering since you seem pretty hung up on zak because he did 1+1=fish. it really looks like you seem to think making a error is more scummy then actually looking scummy since youre agreeing with BT case on cf7
One thing I want to ask NNR; why single out CF7 over other noncontributors?As of ED1, as I quote here:
Anyways I'm not actually voting exclusively over lack of votes. I have a bunch of minor reasons to vote CF7 right now, such as him not doing much until prodded, and trying to pass the buck to other people with quotes like this:I simply had more and better reasons to vote him over others. Before even that rawr vote, there were still minor ED1 reasons I had been voting for, so I didn't really see it prudent to switch when all the other NoVotes were more or less the same.QuoteAlso, Conq here does the same thing, let's all vote him for itand for generally being wishy-washy and reliant on rolespec.
I think both Cf7 and Zak are scummy yes
dormio when did bardiche vote me?I am not entirely sure of that myself. Counting is hard.
I am not entirely sure of that myself. Counting is hard.
I'm currently voting for Dan because in my experience he is either AFK or anti-town. Also I was kind of (meta) waiting for him to hand out one of his famous town clears and voting that person. Instead he gave two 'definitely scum' and has been pretty damn active this game. Therefore, there is a big chunk of me that wants to keep my vote there because of meta.wut
I'm currently voting for Dan because in my experience he is either AFK or anti-town. Also I was kind of (meta) waiting for him to hand out one of his famous town clears and voting that person. Instead he gave two 'definitely scum' and has been pretty damn active this game. Therefore, there is a big chunk of me that wants to keep my vote there because of meta.
For now, I think Kingault's vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077365.html#msg1077365) on CF7 is basically because "it's not like I can think of any better options at this point." There's plenty of options but you just happened to consolidate on to the guy with the most votes? We're not even halfway through day one. It looks like a scum vote park to me.
##vote Kingault
I'm currently voting for Dan because in my experience he is either AFK or anti-town. Also I was kind of (meta) waiting for him to hand out one of his famous town clears and voting that person. Instead he gave two 'definitely scum' and has been pretty damn active this game. Therefore, there is a big chunk of me that wants to keep my vote there because of meta.okay
For now, I think Kingault's vote on CF7 is basically because "it's not like I can think of any better options at this point." There's plenty of options but you just happened to consolidate on to the guy with the most votes? We're not even halfway through day one. It looks like a scum vote park to me.
##vote Kingault
Sacchi looks like blatant hopping on the bandwagon, especially considering the "me too" part. Is there no one else you consider worthy talking about or are you just going to regurgitate popular arguments?
Hard to tell whether Sacchi is being Depore from CotA or just impressionable. Is being half-assed scummy to you, and why CF7? Why did you bring up CF7 only after everyone else had done so. Don't be afraid to bring stuff up even if no one is saying it; otherwise it's hard to see your thought process.
i still cant put this together... how does dan being more active and having scum reads over town reads make you want to vote him? its like hes doing the opposite of what you didnt want but youre suggesting that you would want to keep your vote on him anyways?was hoping you would take the hint lolz
But sure, go for it. Lynch me and waste a day.One vote does not a lynch make. No need to react to a vote in that way.
I think CF7 is a townie who posted carelessly and got wagoned for it, tbhI think the careless posting is exactly why I feel he's scummy, since he generally seems uncaring he has a wagon on him, which I feel is something scum would be more apt to do. His criticism of the wagon is that CF7 is voting based on rawr's playstyle, which doesn't really hold true if you look at the reasoning. As Bard also mentions, he apparently thinks that anti-RVS measures are scummy. Which is wrong. Would switch if he had more recent content.
Zak's post seem pretty alright to me. His CF7 vote isn't too weak and he pushes it a bit while not being hyperagressive, which feels like town intent. His rolespec is at acceptable levels as he's basically arguing more game mechanics then actual "what's the role?" games. Not quite sure why exactly his posts deserve votes. Maybe I'm discounting them too much?Here's why I'm voting Zak: try to summarize Zak's vote on CF7, and realize you can't beyond that the way CF7 is handling the the pressure on him feels scummy, which would be an alright sentiment if Zak responds to me and tells me what a "townie" way to handle that pressure would be.
I never said that CF7 was inexperienced/a newbie. I said that he was a townie getting wagoned for bad reasons - there's a difference. Scum are more likely to react to large wagons imo instead of getting apathetic due to a ed1 strong wagon on them.I kinda want to argue that you implied it with reasoning he didn't know rawr's playstyle, but I already made the point on that and I don't want to make a "who meant what' argument.
There's a lot more I should probably respond to but I'm tired so maybe not.
It's a pretty convoluted use of meta to be sure, but I'd find it scummier of him if he were using it as an actual push (which he isn't yet).Sums his Dan opinion up nicely. I want to see more opinions on other players from him. The Kingault vote is pretty easy and he could use more or better scumreads.
Yeah, I want to believe that 'active Dan = scum Dan'. And I may yet switch back there, but I'm not getting a scum feeling from Dan.I'm pretty sure Scum-Dan is even more inactive then Town-Dan actually.
Instead what happened was I got a prod and Dan is being active, so...we're both off of our normal game. If I want to make the argument that unusual Dan = scummy, what's to stop others from doing the same to me? Better stay out of that bad place.
I don't really think my vote was bad at the time I did it, "I think Shadoweh having a townclear on me already seems kinda weird, plus I have meta for strongly buddying up to people who like me apparently" seems like a decent enough reason to voteThe first part is about what I figured. The second part is you asking to be punched. Since when have I ever cared what other people say about you in making my read on you, that goes against every way I have ever treated you in play. You are being a lazy little butt and apparently need reminding that I will blast you off at the speed of light if you think you can just sit on me all day and leave. I rolled the dice and you're getting remarkably sane and paying attention Shadoweh this game. (That goes to Conq too.)
if it's because I said "mostly joking" well yeah it's a barely-not-rvs vote and I wanted it to be clear that I'm not actually putting a lot of stock into Shadoweh being scum just for having a townclear on me >:V
Game has been progressing more but I apparently have to go get dragged places because "it would be good for you to leave the house"and sit around bored somewhereso I'll have to pay attention later `-` Vote might be a little outdated but I think it still stands enough, especially considering other people think my stuff so far is pretty bleh so that's arguably evidence Shadoweh's townclear is weird and probably unwarranted
What would be a townie way for him to handle the pressure?
I rolled the dice and you're getting remarkably sane and paying attention Shadoweh this game. (That goes to Conq too.)I what? Did "to" autocorrect to your own name or something?
I what? Did "to" autocorrect to your own name or something?Is it really that hard to believe I'm not slacking this game? <_< We even agree on some things even if I'm not sure on you yet.
How should i say. It just feels weird. Call it guts. For example SB claimed ascetic. Rawr says that claim is weird based on Rawr's own role. There might be 2 ascetics, sure, but on other hand Rawr never said that he's ascetic. Then there were posts about figuring out roles of some people. It's D1 no info and it's rolemadness so any role can has any alignment and all that. Maybe he's just extremely knowlegable of Medaka Box, i don't know. And all this. I dunno. As i said, weird.See SB? This isn't playstyle. I looked back before asserting this is the only thing CF7's said, and I've decided this is still unacceptable. This explanation for how Rawr is weird is seriously lacking the step that makes Weird = Scummy. Rawr is rolespecing, and this is scummy because...? It's the kind of case I would expect ScumSerela to make actually. I'm not done reading but I just saw CF7 post so I'm going to put this down for him to respond to while continuing.
SB: That post is 'weirdy' is not a reason you can hold someone to. It also has nothing to do with player style, really. You're self-supplying what weird means because CF7 didn't explain himself. I don't think Rawr has made a scummy post, so something that superficial and imo wrong isn't going to fly with me.
Well my Dr Rawr post was made at the time, when i didn't have many reads. I picked it as the one that made sense at the time. He's likely town.O_o you do realize you're still voting for Rawr, right. I don't get where anyone's town reads on CF7 are coming from. Compared to his righteous anger in the previous game under the same situation, his response here has been downright anemic. I could fall asleep from the apathy.
As for people voting for me. Don't really like Kingault jump on the most popular and the only wagon with the reasoning he gave.
Can't say much about anyone else.
Also i'm quite busy at work at the moment.
O_o you do realize you're still voting for Rawr, right. I don't get where anyone's town reads on CF7 are coming from. Compared to his righteous anger in the previous game under the same situation, his response here has been downright anemic. I could fall asleep from the apathy.I do. And well... I can vote for Kingault. But it just doesn't seem right. Even tho his overall posting and jump on my wagon is bad, he's a relatively new player and i well... It just doesn't feel right. Still his reaction to Sky_P vote on him is not too good imo. I mean this part.
But sure, go for it. Lynch me and waste a day.So, it's either this or blank unvote. Not sure which is worse.
People who are saying CF7 is a newbie are wrong, but he's still not scummy.noob =/= newb, though.
Gonna try and pick up where I left off earlier now I guess.
Hey, Sacchi. I'm just curious. You wrote that Kingault's vote was really bad, but then voted me anyway. Can you please clarify why you didn't vote Kingault?
Sacchi: do you have any reads on non Sky players? That's a big wallpost for something that barely said a thing.
Stuff.I just don't really care whether I get lynched or not because I doubt I'll come up with anything of value.
I just don't really care whether I get lynched or not because I doubt I'll come up with anything of value.;_;.
BT's post seems... off.Might be that I rushed it out, because I felt that was the most effective way. I mostly have gut pointers as to where to look at and I gave some vague input to explain why I think that way.
Not in a way I can describe.
Maybe it's just because he was gone until now so it all had to come at once.
Serela: was there really a reason to test it?It wasn't very important to test it, but suffice it to say that there was little reason for me not to.
To be honest i'm not sure whom i really want to vote for atm. Maybe Zak, maybe Serela. Maybe even Conq. Still i'll be around the deadline and i guess i'll vote then.:I
##Vote Serela for now.
but his opionion on Zak feels like it's using the wrong reasons, like what does "pushes it a bit while not being hyperagressive" even mean, is he even addressing the cases on Zak here and what's he doing if he isn't?RE: Zak, I'm mostly not seeing the scum intent, hence why I'm not voting him. If there is scum intent, my Gut is saying "no" on him,
RE: Zak, I'm mostly not seeing the scum intent, hence why I'm not voting him. If there is scum intent, my Gut is saying "no" on him,Yeah, yeah, but what bothers me is how you went to explain it. Like, for instance, I think he's town for a super agreeable #165. Your reasons didn't feel sincere, I guess? I might be looking into it too hard but that's what I meant, anyway.
Read on him hasn't really changed since yesterday.
Yeah mmm the most I came up with from this read-through is a bunch of townreads. Just makes me want to stay on CF7. He's still showing a lack of initiative and "rawr is town now, kingault is scum" came way too easily like he was just trying to reach a read quota.Not sure what this "read quota" is supposed to mean. If he were really pushing a Kingault scum it would make sense for him to vote him, right?
(didn't feel like he read some of the CF7 cases, and NNR's vote on SkyPaladin was unique enough)NNR's vote on Sky_Paladin was an RVS vote so I have no idea what it has to do with anything. Which CF7 cases did you think I didn't read. This reads like lazy surface reasoning.
You are being a lazy little butt and apparently need reminding that I will blast you off at the speed of light if you think you can just sit on me all day and leave. I rolled the dice and you're getting remarkably sane and paying attention Shadoweh this game. (That goes to Conq too.)
Active Shadoweh isn't going to be able to post for a few more hours to look in depth at CF7, but Kingault's vote kind of makes me sick to my stomach being here. <_<
See SB? This isn't playstyle. I looked back before asserting this is the only thing CF7's said, and I've decided this is still unacceptable. This explanation for how Rawr is weird is seriously lacking the step that makes Weird = Scummy. Rawr is rolespecing, and this is scummy because...? It's the kind of case I would expect ScumSerela to make actually. I'm not done reading but I just saw CF7 post so I'm going to put this down for him to respond to while continuing.
O_o you do realize you're still voting for Rawr, right. I don't get where anyone's town reads on CF7 are coming from. Compared to his righteous anger in the previous game under the same situation, his response here has been downright anemic. I could fall asleep from the apathy.
To be honest i'm not sure whom i really want to vote for atm. Maybe Zak, maybe Serela. Maybe even Conq. Still i'll be around the deadline and i guess i'll vote then.For CF7, since it would help your case lot if you posted beyond the bare minimum you're posting now.
##Vote Serela for now.
<snip>Read quota in the sense that he felt obligated to share some reads. The fact that he proceeded to do nothing with said reads supports the notion that his priority was to get those reads out there and not other things.
Not sure what this "read quota" is supposed to mean. If he were really pushing a Kingault scum it would make sense for him to vote him, right?
I'd ask BT about the bunch of townreads given that the rest of the post mentions reasons to look at me, NNR, Bard, Sacchi, Dan, and rawr (and in a later post Serela). So I'd want to know who these townreads are and also, presumably that would mean you have townreads on people like Sky, and Zak, among other people, so some elaboration would be nice instead of a blanket statement.
Also, explain this:
<snip>
NNR's vote on Sky_Paladin was an RVS vote so I have no idea what it has to do with anything. Which CF7 cases did you think I didn't read. This reads like lazy surface reasoning.
I think part of why I think BT looks mildly scummy is probably just because I disagree with so many of his reads. Also that he's pushing a CF7 scum (who has been known to be lynchbait as town) over say me, NNR, or Bard. I mostly want BT to elaborate on some stuff.
The fact that he proceeded to do nothing with said reads supports the notion that his priority was to get those reads out there and not other things.See, I half agree with this, except that he didn't even do anything with those fake reads. As in, if he were scum, the optimal move would be to push on those reads, just like the optimal town move, right? I feel like the only real conclusion I can make from that is that he's not playing well. On the flip side, this doesn't mean he's town, so I'm going to waffle like a Serela once again and I'm waiting for how he responds.
I felt like your take on CF7 would have been different if you tried reading what people like me said about how he was lacking initiative. You didn't address that at all, which is why I think that. The whole "this is how he acts" thing isn't elaborated on either, which doesn't help when you didn't address what people were saying.I read them all, and they felt pretty inconvincing imo. I can agree on CF7 lacking initiative but the thing is, few people really have initiative at that stage in the game.
It's more likely that scum would put down a snap vote like that.I don't think this is true. It really depends on the player.
Alright, I see where you're coming from more now.See, talking about optimal moves is a trap, but even then, why wouldn't he act according to his reads as town? He just agreed to townread someone he'd thought was "weird" for no given reason (arguably because everyone was doing it), then name someone as suspicious for the easiest reason ever, and did nothing else, leaving no proof that he actually thinks what he posts. Are you claiming that's null?
See, I half agree with this, except that he didn't even do anything with those fake reads. As in, if he were scum, the optimal move would be to push on those reads, just like the optimal town move, right? I feel like the only real conclusion I can make from that is that he's not playing well. On the flip side, this doesn't mean he's town, so I'm going to waffle like a Serela once again and I'm waiting for how he responds.
I read them all, and they felt pretty inconvincing imo. I can agree on CF7 lacking initiative but the thing is, few people really have initiative at that stage in the game.
Speaking of initiative, I think that's part of what I find off about Shadoweh. Sure, Shadoweh voteparks people as town, but iirc she doesn't hound someone like this for all of D1 (correct me if I'm wrong Shadoweh!) Usually it's near the later parts of the game.I think it happened before, and even then, it's pretty understandable imo. She isn't the only one guilty of this.
I'm tempted to respond to the Shadoweh case but I'll wait for Shadoweh to reply to the Shadoweh case instead. If you're town, uh, you're wrong. (Best response of 2014.)Did you read Shadoweh as scum in her most recent scum game?
See, talking about optimal moves is a trap, but even then, why wouldn't he act according to his reads as town? He just agreed to townread someone he'd thought was "weird" for no given reason (arguably because everyone was doing it), then name someone as suspicious for the easiest reason ever, and did nothing else, leaving no proof that he actually thinks what he posts. Are you claiming that's null?Yes, I'm claiming it's null given that he didn't even push that person he named as suspicious for the easiest reason ever. It's scummy in the sense that it's bad play, but see below. Consistency and clarity in thought doesn't always go in hand with a town role pm.
When I say "initiative", I mean the most basic things imaginable. He would have just sat there defending himself if not for someone prodding him. He's not showing any original scumhunting, with the rawr thing still being unsubstantiated. He's playing to scum's wincon by doing nothing, not town's.
I think it happened before, and even then, it's pretty understandable imo. She isn't the only one guilty of this.I know. But like I said, I can usually get a town read on Shadoweh when she's town (even when the rest of the game is scumreading her). The fact that I haven't gotten that this game (SHADOWEH YOU SAID THERE WOULD BE MINDLINKING, YOU LIED TO ME) is a personal alarm bell for me.
<snip>When even was her last scum game? Holy War? I totally caught her with the Serelas.
Did you read Shadoweh as scum in her most recent scum game?
<snip>
Yes, I'm claiming it's null given that he didn't even push that person he named as suspicious for the easiest reason ever. It's scummy in the sense that it's bad play, but see below. Consistency and clarity in thought doesn't always go in hand with a town role pm.
Re: playing to scum's wincon, I've always said there are more scum than mafia.
Now that you brought it up though, when CF7 gets back it'd be nice to know why he switched to town!rawr.
I know. But like I said, I can usually get a town read on Shadoweh when she's town (even when the rest of the game is scumreading her). The fact that I haven't gotten that this game (SHADOWEH YOU SAID THERE WOULD BE MINDLINKING, YOU LIED TO ME) is a personal alarm bell for me.I'll just wait for Shadoweh to show up then.
SB have you just been voteparking on me all day
I see the eternal love dance between Bardiche and Serela continues. Serela's panic Bow Down to 'confirm' ascetic was really pointless, if you had done it on a non-ascetic then maybe you could have verified yourself. What were you thinking? I'm genuinely curious, because right now it looks like a fake action to get out of Bard's sights. Which won't work, by the way. He can't resist those delicious waffles you bake up.
Hikari, I want to see some better analysis from you. You basically posted a rehash of other people's opinions and then magically landed a vote on me 'because Kingaults vote was bad'. That's not a reason to vote. Especially since you are condemning King as a beginner, you need to set yourself at a higher level.
I'm seeing...I guess, I think BT is throwing out a lot of WIFOMing over the CF7 situation. Conq is kind of playing back with it but the situation is so ludicrous to me. BT is going 'if he was scum...xyz' 'optimal plays xyz'. Look. As soon as you try to guess what somebody would do 'if they are scum', you're doing wifom. #1 You don't know if they are scum #2 if they are scum, you dont know if they are making an optimal play because you don't know their situation and #3 even people with all the information sometimes make sub optimal decisions. Out of this debate, I consider Conq 'winning/least scummy'.What are you talking about? Seriously, point out specific parts of the posts, because I have no idea.
Out of this debate, I consider Conq 'winning/least scummy'.Just because two people are having a discussion doesn't mean one of them has to be scum, ftr.
There's no tiny glimmer of content I can point at that proves he's trying to play the game.I know what you're saying, but I think he's perfectly capable of putting forth as scum (if his Xykon posts were any indication). In any case, I think in order for this conversation to go any further CF7 needs to post.
@Dormio, if a day ability was activated, would we be notified?In most cases, yes.
Are you cheerleading me to stay on Serela?
Just because two people are having a discussion doesn't mean one of them has to be scum, ftr.
I'm underscoring that I think you're tunneling on Serela. Do you actually have a scum read on her?
Would you announce if an ability (that subsequently failed) was activated?In most cases, no.
I'm wary of Conqueror due to the lack of scumreads honestly, especially now that it turns out Zak isn't one of them. As far as I can tell your only serious suspicion at this point is Shadoweh? BT's play has the same awkward feel to it I can't grasp.Lacking scumreads is totally a towntell for me. But in all seriousness, I don't have trouble finding scumreads when I'm scum. If you want something more clear cut, my current suspicions for scum are in Shadoweh/Kingault, with mostly everyone else in various shades of null leaning whichever. rawr gets to be town, as does Sacchi. Dan, I'm waiting for his updated post to confirm my earlier read on him.
Mostly this progression of posts, actually. The statement that CF7's posts are unacceptable feels more like admonishing someone for playing terribly than being confident he's scum, picking on his reasoning for even though CF7 stated outright in the quote Shadoweh quoted that it was gut. Chiding him for not being angry enough isn't reasoning that works because people aren't always angry in the same situations. So Shadoweh, why don't you get where anyone's town reads are coming from? Why is he scum and not fumbling town?That was clearly a post about Serela being town despite Bardiche's lyncher levels of hatred towards him, I still think Kingault is scummy. The first post you quoted is also me talking about Serela and I don't appreciate you making it look like it was addressing CF7. It looks like the only excuse being used not to keep voting CF7 is that he's a newbie being wagoned, which has nothing to do with CF7 himself and more to do with everyone's white-knight instincts and hating the newbies for voting dumb.
There's also minor stuff like going from "Kingault's vote makes me sick" to "Kingault could be town :derp: :derp: :derp:" (presumably, that little joke of hers was so vague I don't know what it was referring to) and the fact I usually read her as town and I'm not getting that here. Feels like she's parking on CF7 for the hell of it, or because she can, rather.
That was clearly a post about Serela being town despite Bardiche's lyncher levels of hatred towards him, I still think Kingault is scummy. The first post you quoted is also me talking about Serela and I don't appreciate you making it look like it was addressing CF7.I didn't, it was clearly a post about Serela. >_> I was more pointing out the fact that you declared yourself as super-paying attention Shadoweh when I saw nothing like that.
PS: I keep seeing calls for reasons CF7 is scum (sad clown apathy has already been cited here) so I'm going to reverse it and ask you again why anyone thinks CF7 is town, using words CF7 himself has postedNo, actually. The burden of proof is on you. Otherwise I can just go "Man Look At All These Reasons Shadoweh is Scum. Why Is She Town?"
Conq, ever since shadoweh said the newbie (sacchi) and serela were town, I've been shadoweh a town read. So...It's not a hard position to take. No one is really contesting Sacchi town and even if Shadoweh called Serela town no one would listen to her anyway. One read is just one read anyway. What about the rest of her play?
It looks like the only excuse being used not to keep voting CF7 is that he's a newbie being wagoned, which has nothing to do with CF7 himself and more to do with everyone's white-knight instincts and hating the newbies for voting dumb.
I am voting CF7 because I can though. Are you hard-defending your buddy this game? I still don't have a townread on you either and it would be super to actually catch you without vig shots or cops for once. RE: Hounding, I'm trying to remember what game it was with Hero999. I've done it to Serelascum before too. I don't like unvoting until the person actually gives a reason, and I don't see CF7's responses as town that cares. I am not voteparking, that would imply I don't have a scumread on who I'm voting (which sometimes I do). There is no one I am more inclined to lynch right now.
Fair enough. Do you think Kingault then is worse than Shadoweh? What makes you vote Kingault over Shadoweh?
It's a massive overreaction to nonpressure, and it's not like Kingault isn't around to post. Hey Kingault, what do you think of the game now?
Also if Kingault flips scum I'd turbolynch Shadoweh.
My reading(not literal reading, of course) ability seems to have gone to jack. I just can't seem to think about what actions might be scummy or not.Okay. If you're town here, just give your thoughts on the game. It doesn't matter if you think it doesn't make much sense. Do you have any opinions on people?
I do like this recent turn of events, however.
I'll be in bed in an hour or so and won't wake up until like 40-50min before D1 ends, and I have to leave 30min or so before it ends, so.
PS: I keep seeing calls for reasons CF7 is scum (sad clown apathy has already been cited here) so I'm going to reverse it and ask you again why anyone thinks CF7 is town, using words CF7 himself has posted.Ew, this statement reeks of fallacy. We're looking for reasons to lynch people, not reasons to not lynch people.
Conq: If you want to use meta, don't you think a newbscum!Kingault would be a little bit more energetic? Being scum certainly excites me.I hate being scum. Some people like being scum.
Yeah I got nothing.If you can't make a single opinion about the game, maybe explain why you're playing this game so differently than your first? Your inability to come up with anything is suspect; I know you're totally capable of the English language.
Well I'm not sure about NNR's latest statement.
That might be a thing.
I'd lynch CF7 over Serela.
If you can't make a single opinion about the game, maybe explain why you're playing this game so differently than your first? Your inability to come up with anything is suspect; I know you're totally capable of the English language.
Zakeri, if your top scumpicks are in order of mention CF7, Sky Paladin and Serela, then why is your vote on Serela? It honestly reads like a votepark considering you're voting him "until he develops reads [...]" on basically others. That's an extremely lazy vote if you can just abandon it once Serela does develop reads.To be honest, my vote on Serela was kind of a votepark at the time, mostly because like I said I gave up hope of Cf7 improving. That, and also the fact that I pretty much have to force a scum read on Serela because I can't seem to think he's anything other than town no matter what his alignment is. Even now my stance is "Okay, let's lynch Sere-WHAT ARE ALL OF YOU OTHER PEOPLE DOING AAUGH".
Sacchi might be worth looking into as well. People pointed out how he's paranoid and that's good (IDR who) but I think he's overdoing it, like he's pointing out every little thing because why not. Take the comment on Bard/Serela for exampe.I disagree with this simply on the basis that for people who don't have as much experience in what to look for in scummy behavior, I would rather they be Sacchi overdoing it rather than King "Beats me" ault.
I'm still pretty convinced King is townCould you elaborate on this a little? There's defeatism when you're looking to be the likely lynch, and then there's hyperdefeatism when the game's barely started and there's just a smidgen of pressure.
Ew, this statement reeks of fallacy. We're looking for reasons to lynch people, not reasons to not lynch people.Except that I'm obviously asking because I don't think people have any real do not lynch reasons and should switch to wagoning CF7 with impunity? this is ignoring that I disagree with the sentiment in general. Has CF7 claimed yet?
That's not a good mindset to have.
this is ignoring that I disagree with the sentiment in general.shadoweh isn't this a blatant lie on your part :v
Except that I'm obviously asking because I don't think people have any real do not lynch reasonsAlso I hope you don't actually believe this. You ask for "real do not lynch reasons." Others ask for "real lynch reasons." No one gets anywhere. You read my posts (presumably). You saw that my points boiled down to "it's not scummy play, it's just plain bad play." So what, that's not a real reason now? Give me your real reasons.
Except that I'm obviously asking because I don't think people have any real do not lynch reasons and should switch to wagoning CF7 with impunity?Perhaps CF7 is Town Playing Badly. That is Just As Likely As Your Scenario Where He Is Lazy Scum. So why is it the latter and not the former?
I didn't, it was clearly a post about Serela. >_> I was more pointing out the fact that you declared yourself as super-paying attention Shadoweh when I saw nothing like that.Although this one sums a bunch of them up nicely. You called my "bluff" while I was unconscious you know. I don't get why you think that post was me not paying attention, I was saying Serela is town and Serela is really super obvtown being wagoned for stupid reasons, this means I'm not paying attention because ???
No, actually. The burden of proof is on you. Otherwise I can just go "Man Look At All These Reasons Shadoweh is Scum. Why Is She Town?"
Could you elaborate on this a little? There's defeatism when you're looking to be the likely lynch, and then there's hyperdefeatism when the game's barely started and there's just a smidgen of pressure.That's actually a good point and I swear I had a town read somewhere where did I put it?
Because I'm rereading backwards.Although this one sums a bunch of them up nicely. You called my "bluff" while I was unconscious you know. I don't get why you think that post was me not paying attention, I was saying Serela is town and Serela is really super obvtown being wagoned for stupid reasons, this means I'm not paying attention because ???I don't know what you're even talking about. If I had cared anything about your Serela posts I would have quoted the ones that came after that progression. The "paying attention" bit was bravado that felt fake, like you were trying to imitate what you usually do in your town games, but it was different. The other part of that first quote was pointing out the bit about Kingault, but apparently you've thought he was scum the whole time so that doesn't matter now.
It's funny that you say the burden of proof is on me when two seconds of reading CirnoF7 should net you the same conclusion as me, CF7 is on snoremode. Why tthe fuck are you advocating quicklynching me if someone whose wagon I would support flips scum? If SeaEffSet claims something big we can quickwagon non-care #2 together.It's funny you should say that because I spent way more than two seconds reading CirnoF7 and I didn't get the same conclusion. CF7 is on snoremode, sure. That doesn't make him scum, that makes him a lazy bum like half the players in this game.
I think you're wrong. You could argue last game he was playing badly. Right now he is not playing as himself.Remember that game where Validon got replaced by a weird bear?
I don't know what you're even talking about. If I had cared anything about your Serela posts I would have quoted the ones that came after that progression. The "paying attention" bit was bravado that felt fake, like you were trying to imitate what you usually do in your town games, but it was different. The other part of that first quote was pointing out the bit about Kingault, but apparently you've thought he was scum the whole time so that doesn't matter now.Oh yes, I've read how my Serela posts appaently don't matter because no one listens to what I say, and in otther news SCREW YOU. Sometimes I do imitate what I do in my town games. In other games I'm just fucking obvtown reading what's going on and apparently being misunderstood because you listened to who Bard thought I was talking about instead of who I was clearly saying Bard should stop making Epilectic Tree cases over. Why on earth did you think I would be telling Bard someone other then Serela is town anyways considering who he was spamming the lynch button on?
Remember that game where Validon got replaced by a weird bear?Conq, it's 4am and I'm sleepy, the coffee is not telling me what you're talking about.
If Kingault was my buddy there'd be alot more honk honk involved. Or completely avoiding talking about him. Screw you, if you want to bum rush your choice wagon you can do the work yourself, I'm not pulling you favors for tanking my credibility because you're a blind spammy SDGDFHGJ. YOU KNOW VERY WELL HOW I TREAT MY BUDDIES, WHY ARE YOU BEING SO NOT-CONQ.I wasn't talking about your posts in relation to Serela in the first place, I was talking about how you approached CF7. I have no idea how we came to this issue.
Conq, it's 4am and I'm sleepy, the coffee is not telling me what you're talking about.I think it was town mafia. Validon wasn't posting neurotically and several of us thought he was scum for it. But he was town and just not in his groove yet.
For CF7, since it would help your case lot if you posted beyond the bare minimum you're posting now.Mostly gut. But my gut reads are usually more or less right and i tend to trust my gut. But it's not enough of reason at this point.
Why these three?
Okay, so you vote Kingault for what I can understand are valid reasons, but your case on dan is just... No. And I don't think this game works on statistics.
Kingault's answer feels incredibly anti-town to me however, if you really are town then why is your answer basically amounting to "sure, whatever"?
Mostly gut. But my gut reads are usually more or less right and i tend to trust my gut. But it's not enough of reason at this point.HEY DUDE what's your claim. You are like super getting lynched, lay it out.
HEY DUDE what's your claim. You are like super getting lynched, lay it out.I am good at figuring out stuff.
-_- No please, be more vague, I think it would really help your chances here.You know, thinking, analysis, comparison.
Do you just like being punchable or are you pleading inability to claim here? If you're claiming something informationable you better be fucking clear, it's beyond the 7th hour right now andd your alt wagon is obvtown.Okay, sorry.
Apparently I have, in fact, woken up for deadline.I know right? Day lights saving time and all
- <REDACTED> (General): <REDACTED>
- Raff-Rafflesia (Minus): Your minus, Raff-Rafflesia, allows you to cause anything you touch to rot away. During the night you may use this minus to kill a player of your choice and corrode their corpse until they are no longer recognizable, causing no alignment or role flip to be given. You may only use this ability once. You may not use this ability in conjunction with any of your other abilities. You will regain the use of this ability once if you have used every ability at your disposal. <REDACTED>
- Raff-Rafflesia Twisted Version Type「Bondage」(Minus): Your minus, Raff-Rafflesia Twisted Version Type「Bondage」, allows you to defile the very earth and shape it to your liking. During the night you may use this minus to trap a player of your choice and kill them. You may only use this ability once. You may not use this ability in conjunction with any of your other abilities. You will regain the use of this ability once if you have used every ability at your disposal. <REDACTED>
- Raff-Rafflesia Twisted Version Type「Mandragora」(Minus): Your minus, Raff-Rafflesia Twisted Version Type「Mandragora」, allows you to twist vegetation into a form more desirable to you. During the night, you may use this minus to create humanoid plants that will kill a player of your choice for you. You note that, as your rotten plants will be performing this action instead of you, you will not return a result to any trackers or watchers that may be observing you. You may only use this ability once. You may not use this ability in conjunction with any of your other abilities. You will regain the use of this ability once if you have used every ability at your disposal. <REDACTED>
- Raff-Rafflesia Twisted Version Type「Thousand Year Cedar」(Minus): Your minus, Raff-Rafflesia Twisted Version Type「Thousand Year Cedar」, allows you to create an enormous humanoid plant to do your bidding. During the night, you may send this towering beast to kill a target of your choice. Because of its sheer size, nobody will be able to prevent this kill from occurring. You may only use this ability once. You may not use this ability in conjunction with any of your other abilities. You will regain the use of this ability once if you have used every ability at your disposal. <REDACTED>
- The End (Abnormality): You are, what some people would call, a genius. You have mastered every skill you have come across by having simply observed them. These abnormalities are no different. You will gain access to every abnormality that is eliminated from the popularity contest.
Re: SB - I don't really know how to distinguish between newb scum and newb town. I just pick scummy and not scummy. For example, I think CF7 is experienced yet lots of people are calling him new. He has more time here than me, so I don't get it.
I think there is some reason for people to vote CF7 this game (last game I defended him because there was no case); I just think Kingault's reason was truly awful and he's done literally nothing to either improve his vote or defend his current vote.
. Actually, I was one of the people dismissing the CF7 wagon because I don't feel like there's really a case in there; however CF7's ACTUAL behavior is kind of anti-social so I'm not hard defending him like I was last game. So this is incorrect.
CF7 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077215.html#msg1077215); I feel like his address of NNR's weak vote is scumtwitch and his complaint against Conq is more of a 'its not fair' than anything else.So the comment about not believing there's a case there doesn't parse.
DEAR EVERYONE FROM YESTERDAYMMMMMMMMMMMM DELICIOUS!
SUCK MY CHOCOLATE SALTY BALLS.
Sky, did you honestly just ask Neko if he's scum misrepping you, sounding like he might answer yes?
I just thought that Hikari had fallen for my Serela-baited-trap
fallen for my Serela-baited-trap
so that's why I... set a trap.
"It was a gambit"Magic words.
Now, you could make the argument that Hikari was thinking about vote hopping already, but I want to make the argument that Hikari countervoted me to protect his scumbuddy Kingault, and then when no wagon eventuated, needed to find a better place to vote park.
Now, you could make the argument that Hikari was thinking about vote hopping alreadyP.S. I'm making that argument and it's a perfectly valid and reasonable argument to make.
Kingault's answer feels incredibly anti-town to me however, if you really are town then why is your answer basically amounting to "sure, whatever"?
Kingault's post was bad, yes, but I also feel that you're way too opportunistic for immediately hopping on him, and which is really scummy behaviour, especially now that people are starting to dismiss the CF7 wagon. Plus, I don't feel any "scum" intent coming from Kingault's bad post, just, you know, the post itself is bad.
I'm not giving him a beginner pass however, mostly because I'm also a beginner and I'm trying my darnest, while he has pretty much admitted to not even be trying. His posts get worse by the minute, but the problem I feel is that lynching him would be mostly a Policy Lynch, since I do not feel him to be scummy (nor townie, for the record).
Hikari even agreed that Kingault's answers are incredibly anti-town yet still votes for me.
Hikari even agreed that Kingault's answers are incredibly anti-town yet still votes for me.Notice how he treats Kingault exactly the same as CF7 (Shitty vote is a Policy Lynch) but voted you for having the Easiest Vote Jump Ever, and for your hilarious post-RVS case on Dan. There's obviously a difference in your intent and play compared to Kingault, and yours is simply scummier.
Pleasse tell me more about how CF7 is obvtown and we should avoid lynching him. Conq can put his butt in the same boat here.You mad that I wanted to lynch you over now confirmed scum? 8) (Also, I'm miffed that you keep saying I thought CF7 was town; I didn't, I thought you were scum bullshitting an argument on him. :V) Anyway, lynching scum feels good, doesn't it? You should be more active more of the time, it's more likely to happen that way. This hat is also delicious.
maybe Zakeri who got off of CF7 in order to vote Serela, despite saying his top scumpicks in order featured Serela only as third.About this, I just want to point out that at least part of this could have been me poking at Zak's CF7 reasoning in a way such that he felt moving his vote would be more productive. The thing I found personally funky about Zak is the role logic he used against Serela near the end of yesterday (since it felt a little forced) but that could just be wordvomit Zak!town so I'll have to do an actual reread.
Oh and SB is pretty scummy too for Not Scumhunting and for defending CF7 a whole bunch for basically no good reason.
##Vote: Serious Bananas
Pleasse tell me more about how CF7 is obvtown and we should avoid lynching him. Conq can put his butt in the same boat here. I supose I should actually read Sky Pal, his wifoming seemed fine to me like last game so I didn't look too closely.
I'm actually willing to vote Shadoweh, but I'm waiting for her next post before doing so. And the only reason I'm not voting Serela right now is because I'm waiting for this whole "ascetic test" thing to end.
Hm...
Honestly, I can't tell who has the possibility of being scum, other than CF7. Even then, I think it might be due to being a "noob" instead.
DrRawr/Conq/SB... yeah I've no clue.
As for voting Conq over his response to me... doesn't really seem scummy to me.(Not sure if you were serious or not.)
Hm... CF7 could be acting like a noob on purpose...
Bah, it's not like I can think of any better options at this point.
##Unvote
##Vote: CF7
world's worst bus post if it was. Very little attempt to take credit, very little gain in bus value.If Kingault is scum, it would be his first scum game, so it doesn't seem too farfetched for someone who doesn't yet know how to play as scum.
So I'm going to lean no.
Oh yeah, and do you all think that the first thing CF7 would do was rolefish his own scumbuddy?Okay yeah, SB is probably town.
If i wanted CF7 alive, he would still be alive. My vote change basically made a Serela lynch impossible and sealed CF7's fate as the D1 lynch, alongside other stuff.I could see it as last minute bus cred.
I read him wrong I guess? It just felt like a repeat of last game where CF7 got D1 lynched and I actually didn't see his posts as scummy (bad, yes, but not scummy.) Also my scumplay is filled with bussing so I don't think I'd bother trying to hard defend him?I take this kind of thing with a grain of salt, exactly because of what was just demonstrated, though. CF7 didn't play into whatever 'meta' he had, and he flipped scum.
Oh yeah, and do you all think that the first thing CF7 would do was rolefish his own scumbuddy?I could argue RVS, I guess. Probably one of the more valid points, though. I guess you got me there.
Kingault is town for some tiny things. Here (1) is a pretty good example. His comment on him being a waste of a lynch makes no sense in the context of Scum CF7 being run up already. Scum newbies post stuff like that when they think things might go downhill and/or they'll get wagoned soon. Except things were already going pretty bad, so it doesn't fit. CF7 trying to divert attention to Kingault for being a weak vote on his wagon (2) is also a pretty big deal.Elaborate a little? For 1) Scum newbies post stuff like that either as a form of defeatism/AtE or a way to sub in for content. Things were going bad, but I don't see why that would prevent him from posting something about him being a "waste of a lynch?"
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077395.html#msg1077395
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077530.html#msg1077530
I do. And well... I can vote for Kingault. But it just doesn't seem right. Even tho his overall posting and jump on my wagon is bad, he's a relatively new player and i well... It just doesn't feel right. Still his reaction to Sky_P vote on him is not too good imo. I mean this part.QuoteBut sure, go for it. Lynch me and waste a day.So, it's either this or blank unvote. Not sure which is worse.
Elaborate a little? For 1) Scum newbies post stuff like that either as a form of defeatism/AtE or a way to sub in for content. Things were going bad, but I don't see why that would prevent him from posting something about him being a "waste of a lynch?"My main drive here is that it just doesn't feel right if they're both scum. Like, you just jumped on the wagon of your buddy who's hogging all the townie attention, someone calls you out on your vote, you reply with "I don't care, go ahead"? In fact it would probably be more awkward coming from scum regardless of context. I'm seeing it as townie overall. Kind of walked away from the point I made but whatever.
As for 2), yes, but he never follows it up. There's one mention and then he's gone from his posts. Granted, CF7 also stopped posting around that time.
My main drive here is that it just doesn't feel right if they're both scum. Like, you just jumped on the wagon of your buddy who's hogging all the townie attention, someone calls you out on your vote, you reply with "I don't care, go ahead"? In fact it would probably be more awkward coming from scum regardless of context. I'm seeing it as townie overall. Kind of walked away from the point I made but whatever.I know what you mean by that type of reply being townie and it is in a lot of contexts, but the thing is in context it just reads really fake. In the situation where he used it, it would have to be coming from a sassy/petulant player or someone getting lots of pressure, but Kingault gave that response to just the one vote and he doesn't strike me as someone with that kind of personality. ~*Mafia Psychology.*~
As for the second point, notice that the Kingault thing never really picks up steam. I read it as a momentary attempt to bring something else to the spotlight. When that failed, obviously you move to something else, like Serela.
I know what you mean by that type of reply being townie and it is in a lot of contexts, but the thing is in context it just reads really fake. In the situation where he used it, it would have to be coming from a sassy/petulant player or someone getting lots of pressure, but Kingault gave that response to just the one vote and he doesn't strike me as someone with that kind of personality. ~*Mafia Psychology.*~I'll be honest, I don't really understand your psychology explanation. Why doesn't it absolve him if he's scum too?
BT, would you mind claiming your flavor character? This should clear up the strangeness that ActionDan and Medaka got from your role claim.Eh, sure. Tokemichi Choujabaru. I'm physically incapable of bias, so apparently no one even bothers influencing me.
Blithely ignored the CF7 wagon yesterday, most mentions of it were second-hand (referring to people who were voting CF7)
Kingault's vote on CF7 was really bad so I voted him for it.
King voted CF7 so for this story to make any sense at all, CF7 is probably town, and Shadoweh/Serela are probably also town.
An he does so basically the whole day! At one point he switches to Alternate Wagon Lynch Serela, buuut eventually he goes back to Kingault despite there being basically no ground gaining on getting him lynched.
At the end of deadline he FINALLY switched to CF7, mostly probably because if he didn't he'd look like obvscum who would rather no lynch then get on his buddy.
-Sky Paladin avoided the CF7 wagon because he didn't want to bus his buddy on D1.It would have been easier and strategically more sound for scum!Sky to have bussed CF7, so this point doesn't hold water.
-Sky Paladin sat on the Kingault vote because it's an ~easy~ and ~original~ case to make on a player who basically is playing the apathy game.I voted in my second post for Kingault because he made a bad vote (which most players agree with); I had no way of knowing that King was going to apathy out the rest of the day, so this is an invalid argument.
-Sky Paladin briefly switched to Serela because of ~role shenanigans~ being an equally easy mislynch to make.
-Sky Paladin attacks Sacchi for basically calling his bluff to smear his only vocal detractor.
Oh and SB is pretty scummy too for Not Scumhunting and for defending CF7 a whole bunch for basically no good reason.
Anyway, I just can't see how you can wrap your head to say "Sky's vote on Kingault was to save a scumbuddy" but won't consider "Kingault's bad vote was bussing a scum buddy."
Gotta have an excuse for being so pathetic.
Conq, I know you're still around. Talk to me about Bard in the meantime. Oh, I think SB is town too. Turns out I don't approve of both your "other picks". Don't make me think you're scum just based off of reads, I think you're town otherwise. >_>I'm only around because I'm procrastinating on the work I should do. Anyway, I thought Bard's Serela case was over the top but I saw it as something he could conceivably post as town. I'll have to reread his insistence on why CF7 was town. Really, the most jarring thing about his play is the fact that he hasn't mentioned Sky_Paladin at all today despite everyone else wanting to lynch him. I'm not sure what to make of that.
@mod: When you said this game was role madness, does that mean every player has a power role?Every player is guaranteed to have a power role of some sort.
Zak's persual of CF7 became really solid at one point, probably #165, where you can tell he's not putting priority on opening doors or skirting around the issue, instead opting to punch CF7 in the face for the scum he was. The line where he says there's no reason to change his vote really sells it to me. It's just such a good approach to the whole thing that I feel comfortable eliminating the "hard bussing" option.Like, re: this. I'm torn between thinking scum!Zak would bus harder and thinking scum!Zak wanted to try and shake the wagons up a little given inertia. This is getting to be a tired refrain, but at this point I just want to see Zak post to see where he goes for today.
Every player is guaranteed to have a power role of some sort.
Mod: Is 'vanilla town' a power role?I do not consider pure vanilla to be a power role.
Well of course I want to know, saa, but it seems like we had quite a few players hint they have some kind of role without any pressure at all. I think it's a really bad strategy because you are basically inviting being hit, and towny players wouldn't do it.
BT, would you mind claiming your flavor character? This should clear up the strangeness that ActionDan and Medaka got from your role claim.I kinda expect more from you then to come in with a one liner and also get on the bandwagon, Oarfish. Where is the crazy role spec? pls more send.
(@mod Hey Dormio, the last two votecounts say there's five votes on Skypal, even after O4rfish's unvote)You can't prove that.
@Mod;Do you really think that I would answer a question like this?
Is there at least one vanilla town in this game?
@Dormio can you confirm my role to everyone TY in advanceOf course I can. But I won't. Because you're a whore. I thought what we had was special. But I guess I was wrong.
Do you really think that I would answer a question like this?
@Dormio can you confirm my role to everyone TY in advance
@Dormio, can we expect this game not to be Shadoweh Quest levels of bastard?.If my game was bastard, it would have been labelled as such.
As for Bard it's a mix of cases I disagree with and cases I disagree with and how I can't figure out why he ignored CF7 of all wagons. Bring back GLaDOS.
Also how would you know that everyone has 3+ night actions unless you have scumbuddies?Okay what was the point of this line, you should know what hyperbole is.
and maybe Zakeri who got off of CF7 in order to vote Serela, despite saying his top scumpicks in order featured Serela only as third.This is a fair point, but as I said before, I was trying to avoid voteparking by putting pressure onto other people. I admit at the end of the day I kind of got Confirmation Biasy against Serela, and by the time it occured to me to secure CF7's lynch, it was at L-1, a few hours until deadline, and bed time all at the same time.
Oh yeah, and do you all think that the first thing CF7 would do was rolefish his own scumbuddy?I went back to the post this is referring to and
Oh that happens. Do you get some special stuff for selfvoting?I dunno, it's pretty vague to just say "Hardcore rolefishing" to this. It could just as well be an unknowing question or even a scumbuddy tag setup.
To reiterate: Sky P. is probably a Magikarp, so please get your votes off of him.
This means you, SB. Coming to that conclusion after my statements just increases my distrust of you.
This game, Skypal looks pretty scummy, and Shadoweh defends him. Who should I vote, Skypal or ShadowehI don't see why this means you should vote Shadoweh until we actually had a scum flip from SkyPal.
Who is scummier, the scummy-looking person or the person who defends them?
In the last game, Skypal voted Mitsuki because she defended me.
This game, Skypal looks pretty scummy, and Shadoweh defends him. Who should I vote, Skypal or Shadoweh?
My pick for scumteam: CF7 Skypal Shadoweh.
This reminds me of that time scum!Bard claimed third party and then when there was a cop guilty on him we still didn't lynch him, going "Well he's third party!" and then at the end of the game I hammered m-let's actually not talk about thatMaybe I wasn't clear, I'm not making a supposition here. Bard's claim was also 'miller vig who is maybe a zombie' not 'Vanilla Town'. VT is not easy in a game that says THERE ARE NO VT'S in the ruleset. He wouldn't have thought softclaiming PR's was weird if he knew everyone had one. Serela, who is your Townie God here? Are you going to trust yourself, or me?
Anyway, further justification to add onto what I just said; his lynch was looking so guaranteed that we were talking about how we were going to quicklynch him soon, with no one really voicing any real disagreement. His attempt to defend was getting a response of "Yeah nevermind let's just quicklynch him now." I can see the scum doing a ridiculous claim as a last-ditch effort since nothing else would likely have any chance to work. VT claiming is also easy :V
Like, seriously. Imagine Scum!Sky Pal. What possible reason could he have to claim Vanilla?Because he's a moron and you can't counterclaim vanilla.
For Skypal to not know about this power assumes that Dormio would be holding back information from him until that time. In MotK, where there aren't any janitors or insane cops or things like that, it just wouldn't fly.
"If Skypal flips scum, we can go after Shadoweh."<-- let's add lining up lynches to your list of towny things you've done.
and the reason I haven't accused anyone else is I'm still working on the d1 interactions.Why would you casually put a player at L-2/L-1 if you were still working on interactions?
The stars just don't align for a hidden bastard town game just to screw over one player.
I am outright telling you there is a way he is telling the truth and also a PR.
Wow. How much wine do you expect us to drink, Skypal?
I also think it's kind of impolite to case me based on Kingler's apathetic play, seeing as how he was so apathetic he requested a replacement.
Shadoweh, if you have some rolespec that could clear someone, you could either explicitly state it or ignore itAre you drunk? You don't have any reasons to suspect me other then me hard-defending an unflipped player you replaced in and immediately voted. So on me you've got Is Being Shadoweh, and on your side we have Discrediting Shadoweh Who Is Your Townie Master plus Trying to Lynch Easytown. You better bring more then that if you want to honestly sound credible attacking me. Ask Conq for pointers from yesterday.
or maybe giggle and say "ohhh, I know something you don't know, so you better not vote Skypal"
and if you have better reasons for me to suspect you, you could maybe explicitly state them =)
and murky flavor he refuses to actually claim.
. I argue it means VT claims have the same caveat as a Mason pair in a Worst Roles Mafia gameBut that's just the thing, Dormio stated that what Skypal is claiming (no powers, voice and a vote) doesn't count as a Power Role.
I don't agree.He isn't the only one who refuses to move of of a scum wagon.
You casually put me at L-1 and just now refused to cancel your vote.
Isn't it because you're scum and you're afraid of being lynched now? Are you biding time until a scumbuddy can come hammer? Or are you waiting for the next town to blithely push me over the edge?
Since when is cutting off conversation town?
That aside; do you want to explain why you are throwing out town-clears or are these just arbitrary words to pad an otherwise non-content post?
I'm not voting because I want this day to last longer. We need to look at more scum candidates, and I'm recovering from a cold so the longer it goes on the better my posts should get.
Well if I can't lynch Skypal's buddies I'll just lynch Skypal himself
IRONY, OR SCUM REFUGE IN AUDACITY?
The most likely candidates would be those who either
defended CF7, ignored CF7, or quickbussed CF7;
coinciding with those whom CF7 defended, or ignored, or attacked followed by a swift and accurate rebuttal.
I wasn't actually looking for evidence implicating anyone besides Shadoweh and Skypal, so ...
yeah, sorry. Hopefully I'll have that soon here.
I'm starting to think this game cannot progress without a Sky Paladin lynch because people are so hung up over it
This is kind of my thought as well, and to be honest I was okay with it right up until Dormio said that I had fake claimed. Then I was RAAAAGE OH NO YOU DONT. Because I expected to get hammered immediately after, this extra 12 hours has been a massive drain.
I'll never self-vote because I never give up. There's a few people who haven't voted yet, and it's about to hit 2 am. I should have gone to bed hours ago. But I'll be very surprised if I wake up tomorrow still in the game. I've lost my edge for the night and I'm just sitting on caffiene.
But people are WRONG on the internet. How can I just go to bed?
I don't mean to sound Whiplash levels of paranoia
Bard, I know you know we both remember who was who in that game, so just pretend I put all the angry emoticons and gifs and demotivational posters and such into this post pointed at you, all right?
I mean that if NNR wants to consider that Oarfish and I are scum, then why won't he vote for the person who is actually scummier. As in, keep his vote exactly where it is.fixed that up for you mate
He wouldn't have thought softclaiming PR's was weird if he knew everyone had one.
and more importantly, wrong.Fine, let's review your defense.
NNR's case is a fairly blatant misrep because he cherry picks from my posts, deliberately highlights things out of context, and selectively ignores what I did do.I 'cherrypicked' quotes past the first 90 posts (I stop reading the first 90 after ED1), finding your direct mentions of CF7 (or most of them, I'm not perfect), because you seemed like you were refusing to look at CF7 as a case at all. The quotes I find (and what you pull up) mostly put the nail in the head.
King voted CF7 so for this story to make any sense at all, CF7 is probably town, and Shadoweh/Serela are probably also town.(which is pure speculation)
NNR's actual case against me is misrep:But this isn't true. Kingault is much easier to vote, simply because he isn't doing anything. CF7 was a more scum-motivated player, but he was 'trying' and he originated as an ED1 case. It's easy to just blow that thing off. But Kingault was apathetic and his vote was pathetically jumpy. Easy case, easy vote.Quote"Meanwhile, he, of course, votes Kingault, mostly known as The Easiest Player To Vote In The Universe, basically decrying the evils of a newbie who really needs to just switch out from the game if he can't find the will to play. "No, CF7 was the easiest player to vote in the Universe. I could have done so without trouble and put CF7 at L-1, thus earning myself an easy slice of town cred had I voted for CF7 earlier in the day. CF7 was probably going to be lynched so there was no reason for scum!Sky to avoid that wagon.
CF7 was probably going to be lynched so there was no reason for scum!Sky to avoid that wagon.This was never a guarantee at any point. I stated myself that I could have jumped off the wagon at some point if CF7 just actually fucking tried. But he didn't, and he got lynched.
It's a misrep because NNR presents a fake situation (that Kingault was the easiest vote) and that my vote was because Kingault is apparently a newbie. I stated consistently that Kingault's vote was scummy and it was, in fact, the easiest vote in the Universe. It's doubly misrep because NNR made this point out to be bigger than it really is.It's not misrep. You were voting Kingault for easy reasons without taking a single glance into his motivations or his intent. You simply voted him for doing it.
I stated the reasons for my Serela vote switch was because I was suspicious of the Hikari/Kingault interaction. It's relevant because he is painting a picture of me hopping on to a wagon for no reason, intending to discredit my vote even more. When I highlight this to NNR (that he completely ignored what I had done and why I had done it) he ignored what I had to say. It's confirmation bias.Bullshit and backpedaling. Your jump was scummy and let you get off your weird Kingault stance for awhile. I've already gone over why your entire case on Sacchi is also bullshit and why you're wrong for pushing him.
It would have been easier and strategically more sound for scum!Sky to have bussed CF7, so this point doesn't hold water.But it makes sense, and Scum Bussing does not always mean instant town cred. You probably have a buddy who DID bus, even, just so you both wouldn't be caught as one or the other.
I voted in my second post for Kingault because he made a bad vote (which most players agree with); I had no way of knowing that King was going to apathy out the rest of the day, so this is an invalid argument.So why didn't you switch off when he went apathy-mode and continued to push it?
Anyway, I just can't see how you can wrap your head to say "Sky's vote on Kingault was to save a scumbuddy" but won't consider "Kingault's bad vote was bussing a scum buddy."Glorious scuicidal bastard etc etc. Also insert all the stuff about Sacchi.
I never said it was a gambit. NNR misquoted me for profit.Let me type that phrase in a different way.
...This is actually a good point.
##Unvote
Don't know if I want a quickhammer, catching up on other stuff now.
I'm tempted to just wait for the other adults to come back >_> Bard and I are being drowned out by the sounds of screaming. Also I just got home from sushi and im feeling fat and sleepy!
Also you were feeling fat and sassy ;)nice reference *high five*
I want a summary of the last three pages.
What are claims? Why is he VT? Hidden role powers?! (http://i.imgur.com/ffIwbDM.png)
I want a summary of the last three pages.Sky claimed VT, Dormio proved that VT was an impossible role,
Bard and Shadoweh think he has a hidden role despite there being no hint of thisTechnically everyone does. You want hints but you're going to ignore me throwing them in your face.
You want hints but you're going to ignore me throwing them in your face.WHAT HINTS?? Where has he hinted that he had a hidden role or something before this???
I don't want to live in this town any more
The game is not fucked up. It is the players. That is all.
Okay what was the point of this line, you should know what hyperbole is.
SB looks really bad. The amount of potshots he makes on Sky looks like he's not concerned with scumhunting but rather pushing Sky down and keeping himself afloat.
To reiterate: Sky P. is probably a Magikarp, so please get your votes off of him.
This means you, SB. Coming to that conclusion after my statements just increases my distrust of you.
It was worth it for looking at reactions imo.I don't see how any reaction other than "Stop twisting my words, RAEG" could even be possible as a result of that jab. Even if you suspect Sky, it crosses the line from Reaction gathering to simply trying to throw him off his balance.
Except Shadoweh and Sky are the only ones in the game who want me dead at all? I don't think me being lynched is a worry. I don't see how taking potshots at someone who you want to lynch is scummy either?This bit was mostly referring to the fact that I don't like you pulling up "But why would CF7 rolefish me?" (Post 371 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078171.html#msg1078171)), especially since I don't think it was CF7's intention to rolefish to begin with.
I like your BT case a lot though, actually.Why thank you, I was hoping more people would comment on it.
For now, I think Kingault's vote on CF7 is basically because "it's not like I can think of any better options at this point." There's plenty of options but you just happened to consolidate on to the guy with the most votes? We're not even halfway through day one. It looks like a scum vote park to me.
"(which is pure speculation)" - yes, it's speculation. I don't know for sure anybody's alignment. Do you know some other player's alignment?The point is that it has literally nothing to do with a CF7 read, which is the main pivot of why I think you're scum.
King never improved or defended his vote. That's a scum vote park!He also kinda stopped fucking playing. CF7 was still trying to play the game, he was also making the worst decisions possible. Kingault was really just not playing the game or showing scum intent.
It's the same reason for you having tunnel vision on me. When you have scum in your sights and the target starts to look increasingly accurate (CF7 and King both demonstrated the same kind of apathy and reluctance to contest) you become even less inclined to shift - even when a more obvious target appears.IT'S BECAUSE YOU POST NOTHING BUT SCUM INTENT GRAAAAAGH
I think Hikari's alignmentHoly fucking shit are you even reading his posts at this point because I think you are making this up as you go along.
I think Hikari's alignment is somewhat conditional on a flip from Oarfish. I think they do have some kind of buddy or relationship going, but it doesn't have to be scum. They could be masons, lovers, neighbours, or yes, even scum. I think King/Oarfish's slot is scummy but I don't know for sure he is scum. Secondly, it's a one way relationship. Hikari was defending King, but King/Oarfish never interacted back towards King/Oarfish. A good association has two way interactions and I really only saw one way, and in particular, the vote change when I hopped off King. As the game has progressed I'm becoming less confident of scum!Hikari because he has largely been eclipsed by scum!Oarfish. If Oarfish flips scum THEN I would reconsider Hikari. However, the situation right now is already difficult and complex because of the whole VT claim drama so I don't think spending time pursuing a Hikari case would be efficient.Seriously oh my god
BT and ActionDan have been criminally afk/non participatory for the last day.
Cut by: NNR, would you say that SkyPal and CF7 are definitely buddies?Yes. Skypal displayed signs of distancing and avoiding the wagon until it became extremely clear CF7 was an unavoidable lynch. I've been arguing this basically all day.
I believe that SkyPal is intentionally lying about his role.
SB is scum. SkyPal is playing badly, and defended CF7 somewhat, but ... I am not sure that he is scum./me shakes O4rfish violently.
##Unvote. Vote: SB
Sky Paladin (1): NekoNekoRex
The fact that Bard and Shadoweh read Kingler as town early, but then claim to have suspected him all along.
NNR:Literally the only reason I unvoted is because Shadoweh is being as blatant as possible without outright claiming that her rolepm apparently strongly implies we shouldn't lynch SkyPaladin's claim.
Why? Why what?
Why is Bardiche voteparking Kingler, criticizing me for pointing out how apathetic he was, and keeping his vote on me even after I addressed all his points? Also, this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078626.html#msg1078626) followed by this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078584.html#msg1078584)?
Cut by Bard: my mistake. I read this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078461.html#msg1078461) but apparently didn't remember anything about this post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078131.html#msg1078131)
Bard: the "my mistake" was for recklessly representing your view improperly. I still think your votepark on me should be reexamined.Perhaps you'd care to define "votepark", because I don't think it means what you think it does.
WHICH WHY ARE YOU ASKING ME NNR?why are you contradicting yourself by revoting? It doesn't make sense to me you can believe he's a liar and then not think he's scum.
Nice defense there, ignoring half the arguments now.You are welcome to raise points that you feel I have failed to address. I see you have already done so.
He also kinda stopped fucking playing. CF7 was still trying to play the game, he was also making the worst decisions possible.
There is absolutely nothing here that indicates any of this is based off what Hikari has posted so far
Hikari attacked me for my vote on King, and voted almost immediately. I then shifted my vote off and Hikari shifted his vote off. Actions speak louder than words. I saw a chainsaw defend and a conditional countervote. It looked very scummy and reinforced my view on King.
QuoteI'm actually willing to vote Shadoweh, but I'm waiting for her next post before doing so. And the only reason I'm not voting Serela right now is because I'm waiting for this whole "ascetic test" thing to end.
[...]As for Shadoweh? Her next post did not satisfy me, so I voted for her, made a question, and then promptly fell asleep because there was no way I could be awake for the deadline.
About 'speculation';I have no clue what you are talking about, or what this has to do with your blithe avoidance of the dead scum player.
I voted for Kingault because I saw him making a bad vote on an easy wagon. CF7's alignment never factored into it because the idea is that scum make bad votes. It could have been scum bussing a scumbuddy, scum making a vote park on a towny, or town just making a lazy vote. CF7's flip actually doesn't remove any of those options, but 2/3 of those options are that King is scum. And that is why we question bad votes, so that a towny has a chance to defend themselves, and a scum will ideally be caught. You don't get to say people can't countervote bad votes because that completely ignores the world where scum can bus their buddies. You even try to argue for some scenario where King and I are scumbuddies and I'm bussing him, yet you ignore that I'm saying that King could have been bussing CF7.
Your case is "All swans are white, swans are birds, therefore all birds are white." You want to make the argument that "All birds are black, swans are birds, therefore all swans are black." You are back to front. This point has been proven false.
You don't know that CF7 would still be playing this phase if we had lynched King instead. Both of them simply wilted and offered no credible defence at all. There are more things in common with King and CF7 on day 1 than there are not. I also had no way of knowing that King was going to stop playing. I voted him early day 1. He fell apart. I got countervoted. I switched my vote. Hikari unvoted. I revoted a player who wasn't doing anything.It's not about King switching out, it's about him effectively 'quitting' on D1 with his apathy mode.
We had no way of knowing that King was about to quit. I thought he was lurking. Lurking players who make bad votes are scummy. Do you disagree?
Hikari attacked me for my vote on King, and voted almost immediately. I then shifted my vote off and Hikari shifted his vote off. Actions speak louder than words. I saw a chainsaw defend and a conditional countervote. It looked very scummy and reinforced my view on King.but that doesn't mean anything when his switch to Shadoweh was both already telegraphed and his vote on Shadoweh was perfectly reasonable, and had nothing to do with your vote switch.
Anyway, do you have any other scumpicks, or is tunneling me all you've got? :/Well, I'm still 200% convinced you're scum, sooooo... actually I kinda am. tbh I'd rather worry about other players once you're dead, but looks like I won't have that luxury, will I?
Shadoweh, I just want to make sure on something, I won't question you why, but you said that "Skypal's VT claim doesn't mean automatic scum", does this mean you think he's towny, or that you simply find O4rfish scummier?It didn't mean either of those. I do think Sky P is town on his own merits at this point. Suspicions of Oarfy are independant.
I believe that SkyPal is intentionally lying about his role. Dormio's posts are quite clear. I'm not exactly sure why this is causing everyone to abandon the SkyPal wagon. I suppose it's not unheard of for a town to gambit in such a way (cf. Schezo) but it just seems wrong.What made you switch to deciding Sky_Paladin was town lying about his role instead of scum lying about his role?
SB is scum. SkyPal is playing badly, and defended CF7 somewhat, but ... I am not sure that he is scum.
##Unvote. Vote: SB
Why is Conq trying to explain the setup in terms of information to be given later when Dormio stated (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078318.html#msg1078318) that the setup (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078326.html#msg1078326) is not bastard (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078434.html#msg1078434), but rather that players' claims and/or actions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078660.html#msg1078660) are causing the mystery?I'm giving you an example of a role in the previous game Dormio ran where a player had elements of their role they were not aware of, and this was not considered bastard.
@Sacchi
Even without the VT claim shenanigans by this point Sky's pretty towny on account of...well he just did more work than half the players in the game. Just made me tired reading it.
@NNRBut what about all my other points, from his bad jump and park on Kingault to his utterly trash case on Sacchi? Hell, I still can't ignore his Actually Fake claim, there is just piles of evidence against him being town.
You realize the possibility at this point that he could have been town badly defending CF7, right?
Nah, I have every reason to selfvote.
Like misreading my own role pm.
Oh that happens. Do you get some special stuff for selfvoting?So I guess it's plausible it was a genuine dialog between scumbuddies or a casual conversation. That just means I'll have to reread SB again.
But what about all my other points, from his bad jump and park on Kingault to his utterly trash case on Sacchi? Hell, I still can't ignore his Actually Fake claim, there is just piles of evidence against him being town.I agree the case on Sacchi was trash and at the time he made it I thought it was a super scummy deflection. :V But I've made terrible cases as town. The park was bad and lazy, yes, but I think Kingault has a good chance of being scum so I'm biased there.
I'm pretty tired right now but I think I'm still okay with an Oarfish slot lynch. Stuff like his "why" post reads somewhat like scum complaining that they don't think people are suspecting them fairly. I wasn't in VA2 and I haven't had the opportunity to read it yet, so was he like this as Spicer?I wasn't Jack Spicer, that was Cheez. I was Snidely Whiplash. I would like to point out that BT was the only town out of my three early defenders in that game, and in this game he is one of extremely few defending Kingler (and I presume also me once he reads my amazing town posts).
I believe that SkyPal is intentionally lying about his role. Dormio's posts are quite clear. I'm not exactly sure why this is causing everyone to abandon the SkyPal wagon. I suppose it's not unheard of for a town to gambit in such a way (cf. Schezo) but it just seems wrong.
SB is scum. SkyPal is playing badly, and defended CF7 somewhat, but ... I am not sure that he is scum.
##Unvote. Vote: SB
(Conq)What made you switch to deciding Sky_Paladin was town lying about his role instead of scum lying about his role?I didn't. I said I wasn't sure that he was scum.
I'm giving you an example of a role in the previous game Dormio ran where a player had elements of their role they were not aware of, and this was not considered bastard.I see, I didn't know Dormio ran that game. What was the fallout after that revelation, and do you think the present Dormio would build something like what is being discussed, while posting the modposts he has?
[...]and do you think the present Dormio would build something like what is being discussed, while posting the modposts he has?
And THIS. THIS IS SO FUCKING BAD. "Hey guys, I replaced in for someone who was scummy but making a case on me based on his play is impolite". It's not impolite. Replacing in sucks if the player before you is scummy. Replacing in sucks even harder if your first few posts are pretty scummy too. That's what sucks about replacing; the benefit for Town is that if you're a Town player you can bring fresh insights to the table. Sadly, you haven't, I've seen nothing fresh from you.Here's my actual post.
It's even more impolite to make your statement after wildly shoving aside Sky Paladin's posts as "whine". Seriously, fuck you.
Wow. How much wine do you expect us to drink, Skypal?I think Bard and I simply disagree on whether Kingler was so scummy he had to replace out, or so apathetic he replaced out.
I also think it's kind of impolite to case me based on Kingler's apathetic play, seeing as how he was so apathetic he requested a replacement.
(and then some stuff on Shadoweh being coy and not actually claiming)
Alright.
I want you to consider this. I'm claiming vanilla town, right? Everyone agrees that it's the worst claim to make in a power role game, right? Don't you think I'd make a better claim? Look at my fake claim in AUS mafia. Look at my fake claim in Villains Anonymous. Look at my TRUE claim in Utena mafia. I said I was vanilla towny and got lynched anyway. Why the hell would I say I was vanilla towny if I actually had a role? At least if I was roled, and even scum roled, I could fake it and say some kind of cop or detective and buy out another phase or two.
I said when I claimed that I was literally the best mislynch because there's no night phase and I'm vanilla so I don't have any useful abilities for town.
If I die and flip and there's suddenly abilities there, then the mod added them retroactively (probably an explanation for why I got given this stacked deck alongside it) and I want you to strongly consider what it means for the rest of you if this game is actually bastard.
I've got nothing left except scumhunting. SO when I die town, please do as I asked. Check Oarfish. Check Hikari. Check SB.
I see, I didn't know Dormio ran that game. What was the fallout after that revelation, and do you think the present Dormio would build something like what is being discussed, while posting the modposts he has?I was a survivor for ten minutes before dying and we all had a good laugh at my expense.
Bard: there's really nothing here for me to respond to is there? Kingler never put real effort into the game so that makes me scum. I have a scummy attitude and I haven't posted anything worth considering.
Is there a reason you sign up for Mafia besides malicious insults? How about trying to play the actual game instead of some poseur performance art.
Here's my actual post.I think Bard and I simply disagree on whether Kingler was so scummy he had to replace out, or so apathetic he replaced out.
The other part of the post I wanted to address earlier but never got around to it. I didn't say "whine" at all. I said "wine" as in WIFOM. Here's Sky's post which prompted mine:
This post, especially the first part, coming from someone close to being lynched, seems pretty WIFOM to me.
I didn't. I said I wasn't sure that he was scum.You did say that you were convinced he was Lying about his role. If you were convinced of this, and weren't sure he was scum, than it follows that you must have considered town-lying!Sky.
BT did you ever get around to reiterating why you think O4rfish is Not Scum, I don't remember you actually doing thatSaying this because o4rfish is cruising to be the lynch, not because I need to hear it myself
Back from sleeping. I, however, am a terrible person, and joyfully slept in long enough that I still have to go to work shortly even though I ~*~don't~*~ have a particularly early shift today. It's probably a travesty how little I've done d2 `-` I have a feeling I might get lynched for this later, but anyway
SB (and I) also voted for Serela, so the wagon had a scum and at least one (or two if you believe NNR~~) scums on it.because I'm assuming SB is scum.
Lastly I think King's slot is awful but I think SB is probably more scummy. Sadly it's scummy mostly because of positive interactions with King/CF7.
SB (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078664.html#msg1078664) has been awfully silent. Last active says Today at 07:53:30 am and now its 05:02:05 pm.
I also thought my post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078613.html#msg1078613) was clear. Yes, this is a case against SB, which he hasn't addressed. The case is: the first and fourth times he defended CF7, he quoted other people defending CF7 and then said he agreed. I find this to be suspicious, which in combination with other factors (he doesn't seem to wholeheartedly (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077731.html#msg1077731) believe (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077737.html#msg1077737) his votes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077861.html#msg1077861) for instance) makes him scum.
Conq: a couple of misunderstandings I think. I wasn't Jack Spicer, that was Cheez. I was Snidely Whiplash. I would like to point out that BT was the only town out of my three early defenders in that game, and in this game he is one of extremely few defending Kingler (and I presume also me once he reads my amazing town posts).:V :V :V :V :V :V hold it bucko, maybe if you argued that I have a gold handle on you or something, but you're trying to cite the fact that I defended someone that wasn't even you, not to mention the situation's leagues different than what it was in VA2
Self vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1076942.html#msg1076942) in RVS because misread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1076985.html#msg1076985) his role pm. What kind role could you misread in this way?
//When NNR (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077005.html#msg1077005) calls CF7 out for rolefishing...
...SB (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077070.html#msg1077070) challenges NNR over it.
Casual (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077237.html#msg1077237) indirect defend of CF7. Countervotes NNR because "I feel like he's trying too hard to look like he's contributing" and other details. Seems legit except CF7 flipped scum.
Continues (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077263.html#msg1077263) to defend CF7 against Shadoweh and NNR. "So basically you're saying you want people's posts to be bad because of X, not because of Y?"
//NNR actually sums up SB's pass here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077411.html#msg1077411) as "using the excuse he's inexperienced and a newbie."
SB (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077421.html#msg1077421)argues.
SB (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077532.html#msg1077532) continues to defend CF7 from Shadoweh. Possible scumslip. Criticises my vote for Kingault but neglects to criticise Kingault's vote. Strong evidence for CF7/SB/Kingault scum team.
Blanket (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077548.html#msg1077548) AOE defend of CF7.
Questions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077606.html#msg1077606) several random players on their scum picks. Has not yet made a reasonable case yet and we are a long way out of RVS. Vote suppression on NNR.
Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077683.html#msg1077683) bow down drama commencement. Only snippy one liners from SB.
Called out (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077720.html#msg1077720) by NNR for doing nothing all game and vote parking. SB agrees. Says 'gonna speed iso some people i guess.'
Questions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077729.html#msg1077729) Serela for her ascetic test. Questions my vote on Kingault again. Questions Conqueror.
Proposes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077861.html#msg1077861) turbo lynch of Sky near phase end because "Regardless I don't want CF7 lynched so." Refusal to get on CF7 lynch.
Challenged (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078170.html#msg1078170) by NNR. Blatant lie about what he did day 1, "My vote change basically made a Serela lynch impossible and sealed CF7's fate as the D1 lynch". That is not what happened at all. You sat on NNR all day for chasing CF7, then when that bus was gone, chased after me for pursuing Kingault, and took a brief shot at Serela when a window appeared.
WIFOM. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078171.html#msg1078171)
Votes for Sky. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078186.html#msg1078186) Picks BT's vote as weird and targets me for not voting CF7 until later which ironically is what SB never did on account of going for a turboskylynch.
Unvotes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078209.html#msg1078209) to prevent quickhammer. The first towny thing I've seen him do yet, except then fishes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078212.html#msg1078212) for permission to hammer.
//(mod counterclaim)
Revotes Sky (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078446.html#msg1078446) because mod counterclaim. /Reasonable
Possible scumslip. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078449.html#msg1078449) Indicates that he knows players have 3+ abilities, "how could you know...?" Right back at you, SB.
Defends (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078664.html#msg1078664) against Zak: "It was worth looking for reactions." Maybe so. Buddying Zak.
Overall assessment of SB is pretty awful. There are no serious attempts to scum hunt and there are many one liner minimum effort posts. Heavily defended CF7 day 1 including asking for a quicklynch of Sky late day 1 and all of day 2.
The scum team of CF7/Kingault/SB not only fits nicely together but it actually explains a lot of their interactions. SB has yet to refer to Oarfish in any meaningful way but he was keen to defend the King slot on day 1.
In addition, both Kingault and SB self-voted on day 1. SB said he misread his role pm which is consistent with scum getting a link to a quicktopic and SB accidentally reading his scumbuddies role instead of his own.
And look at CF7's role, it's massive, you could easily make a mistake with that. So yes, I am suggesting that King has a role where self-vote is OK and that SB thought it was his role and that is why he self-voted. And also, you know, self votes are scummy and both King and SB did them.
Are you guys serious? How about actually reading the thread and weighing the arguments?
Yknow, I feel like complaining about many things. The fact that Bard and Shadoweh read Kingler as town early, but then claim to have suspected him all along. The fact that the first thing I did on replacing was unvote, and yet I get accused of moving SkyPal closer to lynch when I revoted him.Typical newbscum posts. Mr. Townie knows what he feels about the people making cases against him, Mr. Goon doesn't - he just cares that people are making cases against him, hence the super general cry to those casemakers that suggests he views it all the same. Mr. Townie doesn't feel as big of an urge as Mr. Goon does to complain about the woes of circumstances. Mr. Goon does this a lot because his own well-being is at his forefront and if anything's going to annoy him it's what he believes is unfair suspicion.
I'm also just going to say that I have the power to stop one lynch from a command posted in my role pm. Considering CF7 had an extra kill, there's no reason for me not to have done that.im sorry to say this argument only applies if we know this power exists and it could have been used on cf7 anyways.
Suppose Sky Paladin is gone. He is not an option. Who is scum and why?
To be honest, my vote on Serela was kind of a votepark at the time, mostly because like I said I gave up hope of Cf7 improving. That, and also the fact that I pretty much have to force a scum read on Serela because I can't seem to think he's anything other than town no matter what his alignment is. Even now my stance is "Okay, let's lynch Sere-WHAT ARE ALL OF YOU OTHER PEOPLE DOING AAUGH".
Uhh, no He didn't. You specifically asked Which is a question directly asking about his role. Conqueror's Question is open-ended It's a Yes or no question, with the implications that the answerer would put down a reason if they had one. Conq doesn't imply the reasoning has to do with King's Role.
The "rolefishing" feels like he stumbled accidentally without realizing it, and the vote on Rawr is null for me, but the way CF7 is trying to handle the pressure from people calling out his rolefishing feels scummy to me.
##Unvote: Rawr
##Vote: CF7
CF7 it would help if you pointed out the parts of Rawr's posts that seem off so other people could comment on it.
@Zak.
Both questions are implying some self-profit from self-voting. And both are questioning reasons for self-voting. Somehow mine is scummy and Conq's is not.
Quote from: Shadoweh 103For CF7's sake I would accept actually pointing out something that felt 'off' rather then a blaze it just does.quoting this so CF7 can read it again in case he scoffed and/or ignored it in Shadoweh's post above.
How should i say. It just feels weird. Call it guts. For example SB claimed ascetic. Rawr says that claim is weird based on Rawr's own role. There might be 2 ascetics, sure, but on other hand Rawr never said that he's ascetic. Then there were posts about figuring out roles of some people. It's D1 no info and it's rolemadness so any role can has any alignment and all that. Maybe he's just extremely knowlegable of Medaka Box, i don't know. And all this. I dunno. As i said, weird.
Top scum picks are in order of mention CF7, Sky, and Serela for now. I don't feel like CF7 is going to answer to any more questions just from keeping a pressure vote on him, but I'm still willing to switch back if he doesn't find new scumreads to talk about.
So If I'm reading right, the wagon's are between a guy that's had the case stick around since ed1 and a case where half of the people voted because mod shenanigans.
I would rather CF7 had voted for King, even though I'm still pretty convinced King is town. Shadoweh is right when she says CF7 is too apathetic.
To be honest, my vote on Serela was kind of a votepark at the time, mostly because like I said I gave up hope of Cf7 improving....Actually, I hate this, a lot. Specifically the first quote, since he doesn't actually go and do as he promised - he doesn't review CF7's newer posts and doesn't revote from Serela to CF7. The second and fourth quotes make me itch because, as I said, I thought his CF7 vote was strong, calling him out on things that go beyond "he's not doing enough", so those quotes don't feel like they're coming from the same person. The third one's just a typical paranoid thought that he would be more concious about his buddy's votes as scum.
His constant mention of CF7 as null over town also pings me, if the case is bad and scummy, why should the alignment matter of CF7 if he hasn't flipped yet? Couldn't it just be that scum is trying to push a bus case and is failing to make it look legit?If scum is trying to push a bad bus case then why not lynch the scum making the bad bus case? In any case, it's far more likely the scum make bad cases on town, so I don't know what you're trying to get at here?
I feel like he's spending a disproportionate amount of time on Kingault (who Wasn't Actually Posting I might add) over Sky who seemed to be his primary scumread at the time?I actually haven't spent that much time on either if you look at my posts, I've been busy with not!mafia. But even if I was spending more time on Kingault over Sky, what does that have to do with anything?
BT's flavor hunt is super weird for me, especially after writing Sky off as a convenient mislynch.What felt weird to you about all that? All you're really doing is saying what I did. I suspected him but still feared he was town, I questioned him about flavor because VT seemed like a plausible Lazy Scum fake and, actually, I did give an example for what I meant by detached and scum-motivated (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078374.html#msg1078374) - that he was trying to bring up dirt on people regardless of the state of the game or whether it makes sense or not or even if it fits the opinions he claims to have. So, yeah, what felt "weird" about that?
Wait, nevermind I'm lost. I remembers BT attacking him, saw he wasn't attacking him, and then caught back up to the post were BT just throws out a "So detatched and scummy it hurts." What about Sky's post being detatched make it scummy, and what were the scum-motivated points you saw?
BT's initial vote is to just get CF7 to explain himself. It almost kind of feels like he's hoping CF7 would come back and absolve the need to vote him. The "Read Quota" line in post 203 kind of comes off as a "*nudge nudge*" towards CF7 to try and make more posts. It's also kind of weird that he opens dialogs on six different people, but like Serela noted two posts below, it might have just been an effect of having to catch up. BT's commitment to the CF7 case also solidifies in post 224, which happens right after CF7 posts "I give up, vote: some random guy".What made you interpret my initial vote like that? Fact-checking is making my frown deepen. The last bit isn't true at all as far as I can tell, so all the same, tell me how you reached that conclusion too. I also pretty much explained the read quota thing to Conq when he explicitly asked about it so you have no excuse for getting it exactly wrong (I was calling him out for bullshitting content, not nudging him for MORE fake content). Why did you never read my back-and-forth with Conq all this time?
I would like to point out that in addition to [BT] being the second most likely busser on CF7's wagon, There was the period where he was supposedly AFK but had enough time to participate in roleshens on day one.I still don't see what's wrong with this. What's wrong with this? And who's the winner of the most likely busser contest? What's making you vote me instead of him?
First quick question - SB, how are you sheeping me after saying Bard's scum who's been tunneling on Serela and then Kingfish? They're not both scum.I'm silly, I thought you were voting Oarfish. Though I guess the question still stands.
He says this about O4rfish but then continues the tunnel himself. Imo Bard is scum who decided they would try and coast through the game tunneling Serela but then due to him being a counterwagon decides that it was no longer viable.
How can scum stand to write all these wallsI can't.
Who are you talking to zak in your last paragraph?Oarfish.
Your post did though, even though you're, you know, supposed to be a VT and there'd been a severe lack of flips at that point.Are you really trying to push this? Like, for serious?
Having different reads doesn't make someone scum, but if I can't follow that person's thought process it's a good sign they might be faking them. It's a tool that I've often and successfully.
Re: not getting on people's bad side. Contrary to popular belief, I don't actually like getting into heated walls of rhetoric. Also, what do you mean by not responding to CF7's attackers?
The Shadoweh vote, as I've stated before, wasn't about CF7. It was about the way Shadoweh was pushing CF7. The Kingault vote was never a meta vote, but I brought up meta for people who like that sort of stuff.
If scum is trying to push a bad bus case then why not lynch the scum making the bad bus case? In any case, it's far more likely the scum make bad cases on town, so I don't know what you're trying to get at here?
I actually haven't spent that much time on either if you look at my posts, I've been busy with not!mafia. But even if I was spending more time on Kingault over Sky, what does that have to do with anything?
As for not voting, if discussion is going well enough without my vote and I've made my positions clear then I'm fine with holding off on my vote if I feel there are already lots of people on a wagon. See me in Utena mafia.
Meanwhile, SB responding to Sky's read by quotestripping every line, with half of them being more AtE potshots.
Are you really trying to push this? Like, for serious?
And for all the size that post has amassed, you're main defense is "I've bussed scumbuddies in past games, which obviously means I will never ever in a million years and especially not in this game ever try to defend one of my buddies from the lynch on day one." Which isn't as absolute of a defense as you're trying to imply it is.
RULESO4rfish has been modkilled.
1) You may not directly quote any communications with the moderator. Paraphrasing is allowed, but run it by the moderator first if you feel that it is too similar to the original content.
Motherly Love (Abnormality): You know that your son has grown into a respectable adult, but as his mother you simply can't help but continue to dote on him. As a result, you know that Zenkichi Hideyoshi is in this game and may communicate with him at any time here (http://quicktopic).
@Dormio, does the result of D3 mean that we no longer have our no-lynch?
14) You may no-lynch TWICE throughout the game. Any further no-lynches will result in a universal loss.There was a slight change after that happened.
I was sure even "D3" was caused by a role, to counter the double lynch one. Okay. This is less swingy. I'm satisfied.
Also BT just to give me piece of mind you could summarize in your own words the difference between your scum game and your town game? I'm reading Utena mafia and I'm reconfirming that I wouldn't have caught you there until your D3 case on Shadoweh.I was actually musing about my play on D2 for reasons I won't delve into, so this is fresh in my mind.
Curious, 'cause there was no N2 for role shens, and everyone was roleblocked D2.Yeah, you're right. It was just my reaction to seeing a day be skipped and how it was likely to counteract the "double lynch role". My bad. This doesn't really... mean anything, though.
I believe it's safe to assume that the omniblock was also caused by role shens, but you claimed ascetic, did you not?
FoS BT
5 - BT's ascetic claim kind of overlaps Oarfish, I think, but Dan also soft countered it too.That's a 'no' to both of those. Oarfish is kind of like a doubler. He could have gotten unlucky and wasted it on me a few times. That's why I pubclaimed early, though. I'm actually still unsure what Dan meant but he seemed to say something about how he wouldn't expect me to want to pubclaim, somehow based on his role? He can clarify if he wants.
I think NNR's neighbour is likely town as I don't see why scum would waste a nightkill on a role they know to be useless. I dunno. i also haven't used my gov yet, so.Slightly likely, I guess, since NNR was townie enough to be a probable doc target, so they'd have had to risk it. It's not solid, but it's notable.
What is a 'Dreaming God'?Here
Forsooth!
Hast thou taken leave of thy senses?
"Tunnelling" isn't necessarily scum, so explain to me how my vote on Serela D1 is scum-motivated.
Conq, why did you first allude to someone being the dreaming god (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079440.html#msg1079440) but then very quickly changing your mind and claiming here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079446.html#msg1079446)?I was going back and forth over what I should do wrt claim, but I suspected people would assume it was a scum ability and review people's D2 actions in that light. I was originally just going to crumb really hard but then Shadoweh posted something and then I just decided to claim to put an end to that direction of rolespec.
Yeah, you're right. It was just my reaction to seeing a day be skipped and how it was likely to counteract the "double lynch role". My bad. This doesn't really... mean anything, though.
Except, how confident are we that this is actually a kingmaker vote? On day 2 we were told 'yeah the night phase will be skipped and you will get a second lynch'. Then somehow we functionally did not skip the night phase - effectively we just had 'night 2' but it was called 'night 3'. We also were told there were no vanilla townies but well I'm sure you get the theme now. I'm worried that the 'winner' of the kingvote will actually get lynched.
are you suggesting we try to make a king that we in general, do not find very townie?
Dan, you would be an easy choice, I'll call you the Katsuki choice right now. Your play dropped off so far that it's gone off the deep end into ima lurking scumbag territory. Get your ass back in here and either help me find real scum or continue acting like a lurksack. I promise not to drink really heavily if I do end up being Queened <_<His ramblings about his role and others makes it pretty unlikely that he's scum but that's a horribly lame reason. One that I would still use to put him deep on the waiting list, though. The only noteworthy thing about his play is that he opted to go for Zak (I think?) over CF7 for some chunk of D1. Dan should make cases.
SB, how does your governor effect the 'town may only no-lynchoncetwice' situation?
Would still like SB to respond to me from yesterday, vis-a-vis the following:
Basically I think that you're competent and self-aware enough as scum to get away with tunneling Serela as scum while as town I believe you would've at least had some form of secondary player to pursue.
Because you did nothing BUT go after Serela's lynch.
That was a bad way to word it but eh. Your only scumread was Serela for at least the vast majority of the day and the rest of your reads basically ended up being paragraphs that just concluded the player was null.
Well, that's a blatant lie.
CF7 smells more of noob than scummy, considering how super obvious the rolefish there is. Voting there also smells opportunistic to be honest.
CF7 seems like the easy vote on newbies still. I only consider NNR's vote appreciable there. I'd borrow sugar from him without fearing for getting shanked. Sacchi looks like blatant hopping on the bandwagon, especially considering the "me too" part.
Zakeri, if your top scumpicks are in order of mention CF7, Sky Paladin and Serela, then why is your vote on Serela? It honestly reads like a votepark considering you're voting him "until he develops reads [...]" on basically others. That's an extremely lazy vote if you can just abandon it once Serela does develop reads.
Everyone is scum in this game.
He's town, Bard. Really probably town. God is Dead.
Kingault? Probably.
I personally would not lynch Sky Paladin, not even for consolidation.
I don't think he's the scum we're looking for.
CF7 reeked of newbie. The rolefish was so blatantly obvious, it was like making a first post claiming Scum. Nobody does that. Only the inexperienced even rolefish. I chose to believe it was too easy of a lynch and that a scum newbie would not be so blatantly obvious about it either; I've also never played with him before so I didn't know his playstyle. Bard never goes for the easy lynch, except when he does.See, as it stands, you apologize for being wrong and move on. I claim the weight you gave the post in question is overblown. I claim it's unlikely to have happened to you as town. Here, I'll quote it so it's there for convenience -
Oh that happens. Do you get some special stuff for selfvoting?Here it is. What you said was "like making a first post claiming scum". No, not really. Not at all. I don't believe you'd be blinded by something this... normal, honestly, so much that it would conveniently let you name CF7 a wagoned townie for the rest of the day. CF7's post doesn't stand out that much no matter how you look at it.
His later vote switch to Sky basically seems to be reporting what he did, then saying that he hadn't really done anything noteworthy.Um, yes, voting people who are doing basically nothing worth anything at all, is a completely legit course of action.
I also find it weird how he gives CF7 a newbie pass but not SkyPaladin?What? Are you being serious here? I can't even understand how you can -seriously- come to this conclusion. I'm not entirely sure how to respond to this though, because it's fairly meta I guess? But I think this is a ridiculous accusation.
also find his random voteblocking of BT weird since there was no reason for someone to doubt the Ascetic claim and nobody even suspected BT iirc?This is also ridiculous. I have a day power I'm literally probably not even going to use otherwise, I see no reason not to test BT's claim with it just in case. Yeah, I highly doubted he was lying, and even if he was scum he was probably a scum ascetic. But if I'm not even going to use it otherwise, why in the world is it bad for me to test the claim?
He also says "man someone on the CF7 wagon is probably scum" but then doesn't actually do anything about looking into the votes ------------ His change of opinions on CF7 just seems like he's accepted that he's going to be lynched.I read over everyone and said in probably the same sentence that I can't tell who it'd be. CF7 actually flipped scum though so. Anyway, if you look back at D1, there's a part where CF7 comes back and he's just like "well I could vote X, Y, or Z I guess I'll vote Z lol bye" and I immediately went "uh, okay cf7 you're making it really hard for me to argue you're null anymore >_>;" which is supposed to explicitly imply "god that post was scummy" and in my later posts I explicitly say that, especially once he never came back and said anything else. I didn't just accept his lynch, CF7 make a post that was actually scummy as hell levels of lazy and he never came back, so he actually became really bad. At the end of the day I had forgotten it for a minute so I was searching for a different wagon but then I realized that wouldn't work, and only afterwords remembered cf7 probably needed lynching after all :V
The next read he actually posts is basically him waffling on O4rfish saying that it could be town!O4rfish but it was also really scummy which is pretty much a terrible read to give out.This is a big misrep of how I handled o4rfish; I was saying "Well, he's new, but... well actually these posts are pretty scummy." Then I complained about the bickering over Kingault's presence and said that part was null but, that, again, o4rfish's actions were actually fairly scummy. After awhile I remembered BT had given reasons for the slot to be town, and upon that I immediately started going against the o4rfish lynch. BT never restated those reasons though like I asked (He said -himself- he was going to do it before I even asked, so I figured that was fine, the second time I didn't have any time to do it myself) so bah.
re:SB claiming gov, it's actually the best because dear god I hope Dormio wouldn't really put a self-governoring scum into the game (Just think about that for a second) , so if he can do it to himself then hooray, mislynch prevented, and if he can't HOORAY HE'S SCUM. Or mislynched town I guess since, really, even a town-gov probably shouldn't be allowed to self-govern unless you really think it's good for the balance for whatever reason >>From memory, didn't SB claim that he just stops a lynch from happening? Did he say he redirects the lynch onto someone else too? Anyway, I see the motivation scum would have for fakeclaiming governor, but why would Scum SB do it when he did?
But anyway yeah. SB claiming gov doesn't deter me at all.
Who do you think would be scum with Serela btw, I don't see anyone that would explain the PX-level weird kills. Serela is also a, let's say simple killer and I don't see him avoiding the hard people to nightkill two people that commonly get themselves lynched, as townie as people were perceiving them.Oh, thought I'd address the part about the kills again. I thought the NNR kill was perfectly normal. The rawr kill was the weird one, I guess, but notice that some other kill options didn't make as much sense. Conq claimed hated. TBH they could have killed me but I guess they knew I was harmless role-wise anyway. Bard and Zak would have been fine kills if town (HINT) but you had people like yourself, NNR and Serela being just... more obvious. And Dan lurks.
O4rfish has seriously not done anything significant to making people think he's a townie,Which is hunting for lack of Town behaviour rather than hunting for presence of scum-motivated behaviour.
I kind of avoided giving an opinion about Sky considering people are already deciding scum wouldn't claim Vanilla town even if he was one.And then he proceeds to continue avoiding giving an opinion about it. Obviously the first line here is him admitting to being scum who can't stand writing walls (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079105.html#msg1079105), lynch pls.
Um, yes, voting people who are doing basically nothing worth anything at all, is a completely legit course of action.
What? Are you being serious here? I can't even understand how you can -seriously- come to this conclusion. I'm not entirely sure how to respond to this though, because it's fairly meta I guess? But I think this is a ridiculous accusation.
This is also ridiculous. I have a day power I'm literally probably not even going to use otherwise, I see no reason not to test BT's claim with it just in case. Yeah, I highly doubted he was lying, and even if he was scum he was probably a scum ascetic. But if I'm not even going to use it otherwise, why in the world is it bad for me to test the claim?
I read over everyone and said in probably the same sentence that I can't tell who it'd be. CF7 actually flipped scum though so. Anyway, if you look back at D1, there's a part where CF7 comes back and he's just like "well I could vote X, Y, or Z I guess I'll vote Z lol bye" and I immediately went "uh, okay cf7 you're making it really hard for me to argue you're null anymore >_>;" which is supposed to explicitly imply "god that post was scummy" and in my later posts I explicitly say that, especially once he never came back and said anything else. I didn't just accept his lynch, CF7 make a post that was actually scummy as hell levels of lazy and he never came back, so he actually became really bad. At the end of the day I had forgotten it for a minute so I was searching for a different wagon but then I realized that wouldn't work, and only afterwords remembered cf7 probably needed lynching after all :V
This is a big misrep of how I handled o4rfish; I was saying "Well, he's new, but... well actually these posts are pretty scummy." Then I complained about the bickering over Kingault's presence and said that part was null but, that, again, o4rfish's actions were actually fairly scummy. After awhile I remembered BT had given reasons for the slot to be town, and upon that I immediately started going against the o4rfish lynch. BT never restated those reasons though like I asked (He said -himself- he was going to do it before I even asked, so I figured that was fine, the second time I didn't have any time to do it myself) so bah.
...but yeah all the parts where I didn't really scumhunt d2 are totes legit `-` But, uh, half of your case misrepresents me and the rest I feel are completely unwarranted pokes. Still want you lynched even if I never actually made a case on why *coughcough* but I'd probably not feel bad about OMGUS'ing you for this case if it wasn't that it's Kingmaker today.
Who do you think would be scum with Serela btw, I don't see anyone that would explain the PX-level weird kills. Serela is also a, let's say simple killer and I don't see him avoiding the hard people to nightkill two people that commonly get themselves lynched, as townie as people were perceiving them.
I've never been a neighbour before.
And if you did claim NNR's NB you'd need to die obviously.Of course~~~~
I figured the reason for NNR's night kill was because he had a scum neighbour. I also figured that a towny neighbour would report "I was NNR's neighbour".
I wouldn't actually know, I've never been a neighbour before.
I only consider NNR's vote appreciable there. I'd borrow sugar from him without fearing for getting shanked.
11) SB - Governator that ends the day phase completely?
Oarfish - Action Sharer (p good role tbh)
>Claiming before LYLOAt this point you can make that accusation at everyone. :V I half-wonder if Neko got shanked because he hadn't claimed a shitty power. Uh, you were talking with Neko during that entire episode yesterday? Did you two talk privately about that whole thing and uh getting him to calm down?
At this point you can make that accusation at everyone. :V I half-wonder if Neko got shanked because he hadn't claimed a shitty power. Uh, you were talking with Neko during that entire episode yesterday? Did you two talk privately about that whole thing and uh getting him to calm down?
Wait Bard claimed the not!Neighbour. Never mind.What? He's the neighbor.
Also, Shadoweh: Unless you think Sacchi or Zakeri is a roleblocker, there's at least one lie in that list.
Not entirely sure that the roleblock came from mafia yet though. Town needs some sort of actual power from somewhere.What roleblock is this?
It's also completely hypocritical, considering that you hadn't done anything yourself.People complaining that you can't vote people who do something you technically also did is just the stupidest thing ever. It's still scummy, get out.
You basically dismissed CF7's scuminess throughout the day because you considered him a newbie, but then you attack Sky who started playing here after CF7, which is what?I'd easily rate Sky as being significantly better at mafia then cf7 (I'm trying to be as least offensive as possible but with this topic it's hard, retyped this response a few times already) and... uhm, I still don't know how to respond to this better then that. SkyPaladin consistently shows that he's fully capable of playing mafia to a fully satisfactory degree, most of the time at least? I can't remember a single game from CF7 that wasn't pretty meh. To be fair, though, almost all the games I remember him being in, he barely existed and then subbed out, mostly due to internet issues.
Let me explain this a little better. It looked like you were defending a buddy at first and then changed your opinions to get bus cred when he seemed to be too far gone.k fair point
I'm still a bit iffy on Kingault just because He sounded more town that CF7 in his self-defeatism, I haven't gotten up to where Oarfish started posting yet, though.to
I do agree with the notion that Oarfish hasn't done anything incredibly town but I also don't like that people are just hopping onto the next delicious wagon in the buffet line.to
This bus winner was of course Kingault, but everyone's already wagoning Oarfish and I was focusing on newer content.which sounds like he's presupposing Kingault scum with his BT/SB cases and doesn't make sense with what he'd been saying about that slot. Or, I would expect more about Oarfish's content if he switched his mind on that slot beyond "everyone's already wagoning Oarfish."
Keine is better at mafia then some of the actual people playing.Let's not forget that time someone rng'd a voteblock in lylo and Keine actually hit scum with it. If only I could use mine in lylo.
Sacchi doesn't have to claim because spoilers I already know what his role is.
Not entirely sure that the roleblock came from mafia yet though. Town needs some sort of actual power from somewhere.Well at the moment there are two scenarios here, Zak claims to have roleblocked Bardiche because ??? or it's scum.
I was given an ability toand
I really didn't expect to get Oarfish's Minusdoesn't exactly line up with
I decided not to shoot immediately on night one. Zak's stated use implies that the ability given is random but he also stated that he chose not to shoot.
CF7 says SB claimed ascetic, mixup with Bt's role, what does it mean?!I forgot about this. It sounds like a pretty solid towntell because SB and I are two-letter acronym brothers and he probably would have enough tact as scum to notice he thought his scumbuddy pubclaimed ascetic.
How should i say. It just feels weird. Call it guts. For example SB claimed ascetic. Rawr says that claim is weird based on Rawr's own role. There might be 2 ascetics, sure, but on other hand Rawr never said that he's ascetic. Then there were posts about figuring out roles of some people. It's D1 no info and it's rolemadness so any role can has any alignment and all that. Maybe he's just extremely knowlegable of Medaka Box, i don't know. And all this. I dunno. As i said, weird.On second thought, he obviously means me when he says "rawr says that claim is weird", I think. So basically we're asking if his slip-up in acronyms means anything. Maybe. Not as solid, though, unfortunately.
I can see that SB turbolynch on me day 1 is consistent with jailing me the followingdaynight
I don't understand why SB continued with the Lets-Lynch-Sky on day 2 when he would have known 100% I didn't make the hit on night 1.Because there'd probably be -two- scum left still so you wouldn't be cleared by any means?
I think Town!Serela's alternative was to just not use it to begin with. Also I think I eventually turned towards the way of thinking you spouted at me about how Serela used his role. I think the reason he used it on BT was as a panic button to get some sort of roleclear cred, and of course he couldn't use it on the only guy tunneling on him because that would be hyper-self-defencism which would only cause people to look at him more suspiciously.this is semantics I guess? But I think the notion that I shouldn't even bother testing BT's ascetic when there's no reason not to just seems really silly. So instead Zak paints it as a scummy action? Seems kinda weird
The role question is whether Dan is basically a functional vanilla townie given the lack of any claimed inventor roles. I don't think Dormio would put a functional vanilla in the setup, so either there's some method by which he gets actions or there's a scum that gives actions? I assume that if there was a town that gives actions they would have either softclaimed so or targetted Dan given he was asking outright earlier. There's also the possibility that one of my day effects is an activator (since we still have the issue of Sky Paladin's vanilla claim) but uh yeah. I'm wondering what the point is of the apparent once every three days restriction though. Seems like a pretty useless qualifier unless Dan was expected to pick something up.Its apparent use is to inconvenience rawr if Dan died so he can't voteblock (and other things?) every night. It actually sounds logical if swingy.
Also, SB just finished a game where he bussed all of his scumbuddies so yeah.
Forgetting that you have a vig as a backup, even if you get another power overnight, is a pretty unbelievable scenario for me.
If we're ignoring role shenanigans completely Zak is by far my biggest scumread on play alone. :derp:
Also, Dan, could you explain the specifics of your role again? After you action once you can't action again -at all- for the next two nights?
So what you're saying is, SB, that you asked Dormio if one of the kill abilities in CF7's flip indicated that Scum had an extra kill? And Dormio confirmed this to be true?
2 scum suspects are again Zak/Bard.More or less this.
Zak for misuse of role + Serela vote in lieu of F7 vote and Bard for imo picking at small minutia.
Haruhi...and Shadoweh has Sacchi and SkyPal blackmailed, or something. You think I'm obvtown. I hope you don't plan on making a case on yourself.
Would it be fair for Dan to seriously have that role as scum? I'm honestly not sure. As in, powering down Rawr when he's lynched. Hrm.That's... yeah, he could have it as scum, but it was pretty sharp of him to immediately react to my ascetic claim if that's the case. Actually, that stemmed from how he thought there'd be a gift giver.
Well I don't know anything about what Shadoweh has on Sacchi
SHADOWEH THE POWER IS IN YOUR HANDS WHAT ARE YOU THINKING SO FARHour 49:
I might be jumping the gun but I feel like the day is mostly over at this point.Sorry, I forgot to add in "except for even more role shenanigan discussion"! WE ALL KNOW THAT'S COMING itneverends;_;
I told you not to claim :V
Well at least you can understand why I believed Sky Paladin could grow up to be a real role.
wait fuck I'm not supposed to edit posts in mafiaBecause I am so kind and benevolent, I will not kill you. You will, however, be restricted to only ONE post every 6 hours for the remainder of the day and during the next day phase.
Jesus fuck Serela how can you have played mafia for years and still forget you can't Edit posts?I think it's because the post wasn't about mafia so the natural deterrence didn't kick in? Outside of mafia, most of my posts get edited immediately >_> Often multiple times! (Oftimes I edit by erasing the entire thing before I actually hit post) I edited that one twice before I actually had any conscious thought about what I was doing aaaaaaa (It's a miracle this hasn't happened before)
Jesus fuck Serela how can you have played mafia for years and still forget you can't Edit posts?
Cut: ... :V Isn't that more of a reward for Serela?
You know, I've been rereading Day 1 and Conq's play is basically a hard defense of CF7 the whole way. In a kind of sneaky way that doesn't involve ever voting Serela. He did kind of push CF7 over the edge during a point where Serela was actually a bigger wagon though. Uuuuuugh I feel like I'm ping-ponging between these difficult choices, I would feel super-terrible if I lynched a Conq-Town.
- <REDACTED> (General): <REDACTED>
- Remodeling (Abnormality): Your abnormality allows you to remodel others, or even yourself, to gain new abilities or enhance existing ones. Lately the introduction of all these minuses have caused you to remodel yourself so that you possess one yourself, but you certainly wouldn't mind having more. Every time a player with a minus is killed, you will experiment on their corpse until you figure out how their minus works so that you can take it for yourself.
- Ice Fire (Minus): Ice Fire is the first minus you've gained by remodelling yourself. During the night, you may use your control over ice and fire to kill a player of your choice. You may not use this ability in conjunction with any of your other abilities. <REDACTED>