Author Topic: Medaka Box Mafia - Night 4  (Read 158454 times)

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #480 on: March 12, 2014, 06:45:54 AM »
Votecount
Sky Paladin (4): NekoNekoRex, ActionDan, Serela, Sacchi Hikaru
O4rfish (2): Bardiche, Shadoweh
SB (0):
Conqueror (0):
Serela (0):
Zakeri (0):
NekoNekoRex (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Sacchi Hikaru (0):
ActionDan (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):

Not voting: Conqueror, Zakeri, BT, SB, O4rfish, Sky Paladin

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

You have ~53.25 hours remaining.

SB

  • You are good people
  • Even Dormio
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #481 on: March 12, 2014, 07:17:39 AM »
I'm pretty sure if Sky was legit, Dormio would have said cannot confirm or deny wrt VTs existing as opposed to outright saying that they don't exist.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sky Paladin

Sky_Paladin

  • Caution is advised.
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Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #482 on: March 12, 2014, 07:21:47 AM »
That is exactly my point. 

I gave up arguing with Dormio, we can figure it out postgame. 

Anyway, my best guess it's a bastard set up.  Be careful. 
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http://infinitestateautomaton.wordpress.com/

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Dormio Ergo Sum

  • MotK's Official Idlebot
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  • I don't bite... much.
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #483 on: March 12, 2014, 07:22:08 AM »
To reiterate, my statements regarding the current situation are as follows:
  • Every player is guaranteed to have a power role of some sort.
  • I do not consider the ability to post in thread and vote to be power roles.
  • Attempt to game the setup at your own risk.

SB

  • You are good people
  • Even Dormio
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #484 on: March 12, 2014, 07:32:36 AM »
Also how would you know that everyone has 3+ night actions unless you have scumbuddies?

Sky_Paladin

  • Caution is advised.
  • Unit vector from the center is the surface normal?
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #485 on: March 12, 2014, 07:42:01 AM »
Ok. 

As best as I can figure out, there is a difference between 'vanilla town' and 'pure vanilla town'.  I don't know what that difference is. 

My role says 'vanilla town' and that my abilities are vote and post.  Maybe there is a secret ability but I don't know what it is, which is why I speculated at a bastard setup. 

I will assume that there are probably other 'vanilla towns' around. 

I'm really frustrated by this whole situation but I mean, you try it.  Imagine you got a role pm saying you are vanilla town and then the mod says there aren't any vanilla towns right after you claimed, geez. 

I can't get past this, I'll try to scumhunt again later, I'm just really stuck on this because if I can't even claim I should have just made up some awesome fake claim and avoided this whole drama from the start. 

I mean WHAT WOULD YOU DO. 

Cut by SB: I was exaggerating because I was jealous of you and all your OP powers. 

Anyway I'm out for now.  I wasted all day on this. 
My programming et al blog;
http://infinitestateautomaton.wordpress.com/

You want more mafia?
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Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #486 on: March 12, 2014, 08:34:41 AM »
As for Bard it's a mix of cases I disagree with and cases I disagree with and how I can't figure out why he ignored CF7 of all wagons. Bring back GLaDOS.

CF7 reeked of newbie. The rolefish was so blatantly obvious, it was like making a first post claiming Scum. Nobody does that. Only the inexperienced even rolefish. I chose to believe it was too easy of a lynch and that a scum newbie would not be so blatantly obvious about it either; I've also never played with him before so I didn't know his playstyle. Bard never goes for the easy lynch, except when he does.

I am convinced Sky Paladin is not able to claim the full contents of his role and doubt Scum would so foolhardily claim Vanilla Town. Scum would fakeclaim. At the very least provoke a counter-claim, or try to dissuade people with a good claim. CF7 failed this litmus test, but I am convinced Sky Paladin is not an idiot and would not claim Vanilla Town as his "final bastion", and in fact his stubbornness to post and convince people of how right he is is Townie Effort.

"But Bard, you never mentioned Sky Paladin before this!" I would sheep NNR on this and he knows it, but there's discussion time. I like exploring other options. Tunnelling the entiriety of Town on one person is AMAZING LIKE FUCK but yeahno.

Yes, a quicklynch is possible and we could do it given the lack of night, but the more discussion is generated the more discussion we have for Day 3. Frankly, suggesting foregoing much discussion in Day 2 is a scummy thing to do because scum benefit from a low content ratio. Speaking of low content ratios, ActionDan is horribly guilty of this (again), and I wish Zakeri and Conqueror would post more. Conqueror doesn't suffer from low content necessarily but I like it whenever he posts and I wish he'd do it more.

Shadoweh, I know I'm in your heart. I'd come fly over and visit you but unfortunately I'm pretty sure there's like, at least eight other guys in there.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #487 on: March 12, 2014, 08:43:34 AM »
I honestly do not like this post because opinions are implied instead of given. "Does this look like defending?" invites us to draw our own conclusion that it isn't, but I dislike it when no reasons are given to convince us on that path.

Similarly, the reporting in the second line is just blas? and lame.

I'm just hoping O4rfish is going to make clear where his suspicions lie any time soon. Maybe I can stop giving his player slot The Look, but that post just doesn't help.

Shadoweh

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Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #488 on: March 12, 2014, 08:53:45 AM »
To reiterate: Sky P. is probably a Magikarp, so please get your votes off of him.
This means you, SB. Coming to that conclusion after my statements just increases my distrust of you.


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #489 on: March 12, 2014, 11:09:25 AM »
Also how would you know that everyone has 3+ night actions unless you have scumbuddies?
Okay what was the point of this line, you should know what hyperbole is.

Quote
and maybe Zakeri who got off of CF7 in order to vote Serela, despite saying his top scumpicks in order featured Serela only as third.
This is a fair point, but as I said before, I was trying to avoid voteparking by putting pressure onto other people. I admit at the end of the day I kind of got Confirmation Biasy against Serela, and by the time it occured to me to secure CF7's lynch, it was at L-1, a few hours until deadline, and bed time all at the same time.
That said, I gave up on Serela being scum over night, since counterwagons.

CF7's posts all sound like he's given up so I feel like at least one scum was committed to bussing. Basically someone who was early on the wagon and didn't get off. I haven't gotten around to reading yet so I don't know which is my pick, but it's probably not NNR just as the feeling I get from his play so far.

I'm still a bit iffy on Kingault just because He sounded more town that CF7 in his self-defeatism, I haven't gotten up to where Oarfish started posting yet, though.

Quote
Oh yeah, and do you all think that the first thing CF7 would do was rolefish his own scumbuddy?
I went back to the post this is referring to and
Quote
Oh that happens. Do you get some special stuff for selfvoting?
I dunno, it's pretty vague to just say "Hardcore rolefishing" to this. It could just as well be an unknowing question or even a scumbuddy tag setup.

that said, I don't think Scum!SB would be the first one to unvote at the L-1 notice. Scum are already too far behind with the roleblock, and if Sky was town they wouldn't really have been able to afford him the chance to give his last will and testament. That's not counting if both scum weren't already on Sky at the time.

BT's flavor hunt is super weird for me, especially after writing Sky off as a convenient mislynch.
Wait, nevermind I'm lost. I remembers BT attacking him, saw he wasn't attacking him, and then caught back up to the post were BT just throws out a "So detatched and scummy it hurts." What about Sky's post being detatched make it scummy, and what were the scum-motivated points you saw?

I kind of avoided giving an opinion about Sky considering people are already deciding scum wouldn't claim Vanilla town even if he was one.

okay I made it to the end, wrap up time
SB looks really bad. The amount of potshots he makes on Sky looks like he's not concerned with scumhunting but rather pushing Sky down and keeping himself afloat.

I decided to go back and look over BT and SB, and they both look pretty bad to me. People are already touching on how SB was trying to move CF7 out of the spotlight. (I had to rewrite everyone's names five times each just to make sure this sentence followed what I wanted it to say).

BT's initial vote is to just get CF7 to explain himself. It almost kind of feels like he's hoping CF7 would come back and absolve the need to vote him. The "Read Quota" line in post 203 kind of comes off as a "*nudge nudge*" towards CF7 to try and make more posts. It's also kind of weird that he opens dialogs on six different people, but like Serela noted two posts below, it might have just been an effect of having to catch up. BT's commitment to the CF7 case also solidifies in post 224, which happens right after CF7 posts "I give up, vote: some random guy".

I'm feeling super sleep-deprived right now, so it's super scary how this sounds like it makes sense in my head, considering this is based off of the assumption of scum bussing.
##Vote: BT
I'd like to see more people's consideration on the way he acted day one, since I think I only saw one other person mention it do far today.

Serela

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Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #490 on: March 12, 2014, 11:42:38 AM »
This reminds me of that time scum!Bard claimed third party and then when there was a cop guilty on him we still didn't lynch him, going "Well he's third party!" and then at the end of the game I hammered m-let's actually not talk about that
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Serela

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  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #491 on: March 12, 2014, 11:47:27 AM »
But yeah the point I was supposed to have made was scum made an outlandish claim and town fell over themselves (for multiple game days) explaining it -for- scum and giving it a pass.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #492 on: March 12, 2014, 12:10:29 PM »
To reiterate: Sky P. is probably a Magikarp, so please get your votes off of him.
This means you, SB. Coming to that conclusion after my statements just increases my distrust of you.

Uh explain. 

Don't lynch me.

O4rfish

  • something seems fishy
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Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #493 on: March 12, 2014, 02:35:42 PM »
Who is scummier, the scummy-looking person or the person who defends them?
In the last game, Skypal voted Mitsuki because she defended me.
This game, Skypal looks pretty scummy, and Shadoweh defends him. Who should I vote, Skypal or Shadoweh?

My pick for scumteam: CF7 Skypal Shadoweh.
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #494 on: March 12, 2014, 02:40:02 PM »
This game, Skypal looks pretty scummy, and Shadoweh defends him. Who should I vote, Skypal or Shadoweh
I don't see why this means you should vote Shadoweh until we actually had a scum flip from SkyPal.

Anyway, further justification to add onto what I just said; his lynch was looking so guaranteed that we were talking about how we were going to quicklynch him soon, with no one really voicing any real disagreement. His attempt to defend was getting a response of "Yeah nevermind let's just quicklynch him now." I can see the scum doing a ridiculous claim as a last-ditch effort since nothing else would likely have any chance to work. VT claiming is also easy :V
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #495 on: March 12, 2014, 02:41:57 PM »
Who is scummier, the scummy-looking person or the person who defends them?
In the last game, Skypal voted Mitsuki because she defended me.
This game, Skypal looks pretty scummy, and Shadoweh defends him. Who should I vote, Skypal or Shadoweh?

My pick for scumteam: CF7 Skypal Shadoweh.

You keep a preaching Marc Anthony

Don't lynch me.

O4rfish

  • something seems fishy
  • paranoia 4 lyfe
    • Ask an Oarfish!
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #496 on: March 12, 2014, 02:46:24 PM »
Um. Is Marc Antony town or scum?

Goddammit ActionDan I was in the middle of something and now I'm seriously considering this hypothetical
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Shadoweh

  • I will ahn~ vote count for you
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  • The STRONGEST Day Effect
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #497 on: March 12, 2014, 02:51:14 PM »
This reminds me of that time scum!Bard claimed third party and then when there was a cop guilty on him we still didn't lynch him, going "Well he's third party!" and then at the end of the game I hammered m-let's actually not talk about that
Maybe I wasn't clear, I'm not making a supposition here. Bard's claim was also 'miller vig who is maybe a zombie' not 'Vanilla Town'. VT is not easy in a game that says THERE ARE NO VT'S in the ruleset. He wouldn't have thought softclaiming PR's was weird if he knew everyone had one. Serela, who is your Townie God here? Are you going to trust yourself, or me?
Dan: Nope. Who do you want to lynch that's not Sky Paladin?

I don't really feel like dignifying Oarfish's scumteam with a response. lyyynccccchhhh


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #498 on: March 12, 2014, 03:02:40 PM »
I'd think about orefish Zach bard or conq.

But there's nothing that says paladin is scum that didn't know there were bl no vts.

Don't lynch me.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #499 on: March 12, 2014, 03:05:02 PM »
Anyway, further justification to add onto what I just said; his lynch was looking so guaranteed that we were talking about how we were going to quicklynch him soon, with no one really voicing any real disagreement. His attempt to defend was getting a response of "Yeah nevermind let's just quicklynch him now." I can see the scum doing a ridiculous claim as a last-ditch effort since nothing else would likely have any chance to work. VT claiming is also easy :V

"We"? Pray tell, who are the others that are desiring a quicklynch? Maybe my reading comprehension sucks but I think you're the only one that's a heavy proponent of a quicklynch.

Also I didn't claim miller vig who may be a zombie. I just said I was able to kill people at night, and I was not able to just kill people every night or some such. Didn't claim a role name at all, yo. This situation isn't even anything alike and frankly it's a bogus argument to say that it's unlikely SkyPal is seriously claiming Vanilla.

Like, seriously. Imagine Scum!Sky Pal. What possible reason could he have to claim Vanilla?

The entire "let's lynch SkyPal" train seemed good (if not somewhat suspect for the stupid quicklynch shenanigans) up to the point he started claiming Vanilla and floundered a little and now still insists on scum hunting. That's not Scum giving up. Maybe I'm just damn crazy, but that does NOT seem like scum giving up after a(n almost quick)lynch on them is nearly certain.

O4rfish, are we really going all scum teams? If so, why don't you consider me scum for basically agreeing with Shadoweh? What is scummy in Shadoweh that isn't in any of the others that think it's unlikely Scum would fakeclaim Vanilla?

O4rfish

  • something seems fishy
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Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #500 on: March 12, 2014, 03:05:49 PM »
The only plausible interpretation for Magikarp is that Shadoweh is saying Skypal has no power until something happens, perhaps he hammers someone, and then he gains a power. One problem with this is flavor: Myouri Unzen doesn't fit Magikarp.

Another problem with this is the assumption of bastardry. For Skypal to not know about this power assumes that Dormio would be holding back information from him until that time. In MotK, where there aren't any janitors or insane cops or things like that, it just wouldn't fly. Shadoweh knows this, and yet she put it forward as a possibility.

I am working on d1 interactions, but as of right now it seems less important than ... I dunno, pointing out the obvious?

Yeah, I agree. If Skypal flips scum, we can go after Shadoweh.
##Vote: Skypal
Cut by: ActionDan raises a good point (!)

Cut by, I'm going to respond to Bard in another post.
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #501 on: March 12, 2014, 03:08:23 PM »
I think by Magikarp, Shadoweh means he likes to use Flail and Splash.

O4rfish

  • something seems fishy
  • paranoia 4 lyfe
    • Ask an Oarfish!
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #502 on: March 12, 2014, 03:16:42 PM »
Bard: the reason we DIDN'T quicklynch Skypal is so we could do more scumhunting, not that people were having doubts. Calling out a scumteam is the desired result, right? If not ... what do you think was the point?

Thought experiments are fine, but you always have to have a control group.
Imagine Scum!Skypal. What possible reason could he have to claim Vanilla?
Imagine Town!Skypal. What possible reason could he have to claim Vanilla?
We can list them, and see which ones fit which motivations.
1: Skypal really believes he is Vanilla.
2: Skypal is protecting his role, which is similar enough to Vanilla.
3: Skypal is protecting his role which isn't anything like Vanilla.
4: Skypal is trying some gambit out of desperation.
5: Skypal is trying some gambit for a different reason.

For Scum, I'd say ... 2 for Godfather or something, 3 for Goon or anything really, 4 to avoid the d2 lynch.
For Town, I'd say ... 1 if Dormio is bastard, 4 if Skypal really believes this is necessary.

and the reason I haven't accused anyone else is I'm still working on the d1 interactions.
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #503 on: March 12, 2014, 03:20:08 PM »
Quote
Like, seriously. Imagine Scum!Sky Pal. What possible reason could he have to claim Vanilla?
Because he's a moron and you can't counterclaim vanilla.
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
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Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #504 on: March 12, 2014, 03:25:53 PM »
Maybe my reading comprehension sucks but I think you're the only one that's a heavy proponent of a quicklynch.[/quote]
Um I only spoke up to say I agreed with the notion -after- I saw several other people talking about doing it

Regardless of whether or not it's just because I was at work while it all happened >_>

Anyway I really think it could simply be a matter of "maybe it's crazy enough to work", possibly in combo with it being easier.

If you want to argue that it'd be retarded for scum to claim that, maybe you should look at the current situation and realize it seriously may have defused his lynch, and is probably the only thing that would have done so >_>; Any more expectable claim would probably have had his wagon keep pushing forward, but this is turning into WIFOM land instead for "Well scum wouldn't make that claim, right?". Refuge in Audacity at it's finest.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

NekoNekoRex

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Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #505 on: March 12, 2014, 03:26:15 PM »
His role is probably too anti-town to make a claim out of (like CF7, who outright refused to claim), so the only choice was to claim something absurd or claim vanilla, which would be strange in a game where everyone has power roles.
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #506 on: March 12, 2014, 03:27:06 PM »
I'm pretty sure Bard wasn't even the first person to call me out about the quicklynch thing which is annoying when I was nowhere near the first person to seriously talk about doing it >_>;
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Sky_Paladin

  • Caution is advised.
  • Unit vector from the center is the surface normal?
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #507 on: March 12, 2014, 03:27:38 PM »
Quote
For Skypal to not know about this power assumes that Dormio would be holding back information from him until that time. In MotK, where there aren't any janitors or insane cops or things like that, it just wouldn't fly.

This.  This is exactly what is happening.  That is why I am stuck.  What else can I do but assume bastard mod?  There's no justification except that apparently some vanilla townies are more vanilla than others.  It's ridiculous. 

Anyway. 

I discounted NNR's case on me, so I'll assume the players still voting me are voting me because they don't believe my claim.  We can get that far, right?  If you're still on my wagon it is because you don't think I'm vanilla town because the mod says there are no vanilla townies.  I can understand it, I'd vote too.  But at least hear me out. 

People didn't want to read my wall (or apparently BT speaks for everyone). 

The concise reasons why NNR's claim is bad:  He fabricates the reason for my vote on Kingault. 

Everybody agrees Kingault's vote was bad. At the time it looked like an easy scum park.  After a flip, it looks like scum bussing a buddy.  It put CF7 at L-2. 

The slot did not improve during the day - I voted in the first half of the phase and King just wilted.  He made no effort to defend or improve his vote.  Instead, only Hikari attacked me for it. 

I don't understand the reason why King's vote is OK but mine is not. 

***

On day 2, Kingault's first and only action is to OMGUS me.  His stated reason is because 'Sky was my next pick after CF7'.  What is the reason you wanted to vote me after CF7?  You never said it.  It's a fake vote hopping on the Sky wagon. 

The slot has not improved with the replacement of Oarfish, and actually, it's got worse. 

As picked up by Bardiche, this is a pretty bad post.  There's a logical fallacy (begging the question) and then he claims that I didn't respond to Sacchi's response to my push.  Well no offense, but I was pretty busy counterclaiming the mod, and actually, where is the question that I'm supposed to respond to there? 

Here, Oarfish calls Shadoweh scummy for defending me because I voted Mitsuki for defending Oarfish last game. 
Oarfish, did you forget.  Last game you were Mason.  How does that equate to Shadoweh and I being scum?  Your analogy doesn't match at all. 

Quote
"If Skypal flips scum, we can go after Shadoweh."
<-- let's add lining up lynches to your list of towny things you've done. 

Quote
and the reason I haven't accused anyone else is I'm still working on the d1 interactions.
Why would you casually put a player at L-2/L-1 if you were still working on interactions?

##unvote
##vote Oarfish


I'm voting Oarfish/King's slot for generally poor behaviour, illogical arguments, misrepping, lining up lynches, and awful votes. 
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NekoNekoRex

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Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #508 on: March 12, 2014, 03:31:10 PM »
Remember that Skypal is perfectly capable of coming up with ludicrous shit and has done so before as anti-town to get out of suspicion.

He's also totally capable of making huge mistakes.
Kilga is this right; like is this person seriously the player, and it's not some alias or something that's designed to be deliberately obfuscating? NekoNekoRex. Who the hell is that :C   ~Poya Aaaa (Serela), Bunny Must Die Mafia

Sky_Paladin

  • Caution is advised.
  • Unit vector from the center is the surface normal?
Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #509 on: March 12, 2014, 03:31:26 PM »
Also I just want to stress that we do have a situation where I was told I was vanilla towny in a power role game and the moderator has outright said there are no vanilla townies.  I've argued with the mod about it but it's obvious he's not going to clarify further except that there are so-called 'pure' vanilla townies that are not in the game, so we can deal with that drama after the game. 

I assume my situation is the first of many that will pop up as this game is not what we are told.  Look forward to it. 
My programming et al blog;
http://infinitestateautomaton.wordpress.com/

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