The iDOLM@STER Mafia Thread 1 (Locked)

[Sky_Paladin]

Guess I'm probably toast tonight.  Might as well sheep Dan although I think Serela and Shadoweh are scum. 

##Vote Dan

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I spent the entire last night not being able to sleep and woke up like an hour ago so i don't have anything to add? huh what why is Zak obvious town?

Zak doesn't fake confusion as scum, he's not Serela. imo it's pretty blatant he's just his wordvomit obvtown self from recent games. you were his buddy in GHW you should know this :colbert:

unrelated but I'm mad Conq is voting town when he could be voting Dan: NNR is also really blatantly town because as scum he'd be self-conscious about being caught, not about play quality. If somebody insulted his play he'd just be "whatever I'm scum" or get offended BUT keep it to the scum QT. I also think he would've jumped on Darkninja D1 instead of just being admonishing; NNR likes to vote people who are playing objectively badly when he's scum.

granted all of this probably doesn't mean anything and my read is really just "I'm good at reading NNR so Fuck You"

I'm still reading the game, but I got caught up updating my SF game and kind of lost focus.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I was town (of course).  The reason I was suspicious of Raikaria on day 1 was because he had claimed doctor - and I was a doctor as well.  Only my doctor ability was way less lame!  If I covered somebody, they were sabotaged too!  So I thought if there was already a sweet doctor, why would there also be a lame-doctor?  It didn't add up. 

Anyway I thought Sarela was either being a good towny or an evil scummy, so I decided to cover them last night on the chance they were a good towny being targetted for death, or an evil scummy trying to kill somebody.  So when I asked in thread "How many hits do mafia get?" I was hoping to get some confirmation that there were less deaths than expected, and thus confirm that I had blocked a hit somehow. 

Then Sarela was the one who chimed in how many hits mafia got, so I thought 'how coincidental AND SUSPICIOUS'. 

I really thought Shadoweh was scum but before I could evaluate their role post and Sarela's rebuttal I had to go to work.  And now I am back.  Looking forward to the rest of the post-game analysis~

damn serela really is a sk isn't he

no other reason for doc + jk together

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

oh right and we also had a bp lmao

[Polaris]

##Unvote

no need for L-1 with so much time left in the day.

[Shadoweh]

oh right and we also had a bp lmao

doc + bp + jk + bus driver joat
I supose Serela could have been roleblocked from killing.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I don't like Validon's slot. In #221, Shadoweh had one reaction to Raikaria's claim, and it was an attempt to draw further information out of him. Contrast this with Conq, who was hardpushing Raikaria as being obvscum in light of the claim. Why would Validon gun for Shadoweh over Conq unless he was scared he couldn't get Conq lynched, but still wanted to whiteknight the doomed townie? I don't normally buy into "if I were scum" as scumtell but this post makes it look like he just defend Raikaria because he expected towncred from it.

IHNN is ehhhh. I wasn't fond of CF7's ED1 reaction to Darkninja, which looks likes the way newbscum would treat somebody they knew was town. CF7 also did this awkward thing where he pushed Raikaria without really wanting to, and this is scummy behavior since he's content to let an expected mislynch pass instead of finding, pushing and lynching scum. Meanwhile, IHNN handwaving my slot as town is just weird, especially after he grouped it in with the active people. SB had barely posted anything and wasn't obvtown in any sense of the word, this just makes it look like IHNN already knows I'm town because he is a mafia. That said I think this is a lot weaker than the dirt on Dan and Validon.

If I'm wrong on one my scumreads (tbf IHNN/Polly as buddies would be kind of weird albeit not impossible) then PoE says the third maf would be Shadoweh (or just 2 scum + SKerela which might make more sense due to altwins. or MULTIBALL but then that'd create new problems), which isn't unbelievable but I think she picked up her game after ED1 and don't find her horrible or anything. I really don't think any of Conq/NNR/Zak are scum, though. If Paladin is scum then that's the best acting job this forum has ever seen. Serela probably isn't town and I will support a lynch on him as a last resort, but I don't think he's Mafia.

All in all I'm still the most confident about lynching Dan.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Polly, why is having somebody at L-1 at this point in the day a problem? A self-hammer wouldn't really be anti-town at this point and accidental hammers just don't realistically happen very often.

[Shadoweh]

It's always when we stop guarding against quickhammers taht they happen, you know.
huh what has half my reads, maybe we can be townie bros again :> If you think ihnn and polaris are the most suspicious as partners though, they did kind of mob Dan as quickly as he became a suspect.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

it doesnt seem too implausible to me (dan didn't really look good, so he'd be an alright bus target) but maybe i am just trying to justify all my reads in my mind

imo lynch dan first then sort out buddies

[Vhaltz]

Aw man it's cool that Hw replaced SB now I can actually read that slot properly.

I guess he has convinced me a little about lynching Dan, I still have my doubts though.

3 conditional vigs sounds like a really boring theme for a mafia game, I buy Conq's conditional over Serela's because the one Serela claimed is literally one I made up myself as part of my fakeclaim to make everything fit together.

I'm thinking one of them may be scum because of jailor+doc and BT's vig being a daykill. The two night-protecting roles don't feel right with just 2 conditional 1-shot vigs and the scum kill, there may just be an actual ITP and Serela is either the one who sent the mafia kill or the SK getting blocked.

There's also what I said about two vigs activating in the N3/D4 period where theoretically only one would be of any use for town.

But yeah I don't know this is all setup speculation. I guess being an unkillable innocent child means I'm thinking of the game in the long run for once and I just really want to see Serela's flip because it'd be a really central piece of the puzzle.

[Vhaltz]

Uhhhhh

Conq what do you think of Serela's crumbs?

[DNAbc]

Basically, I can see town being rather clueless about what's happening atm.

On a whole I do not agree with Dan wagon, the major point being made is that he's lurking, and lurkers must be lynched. I simply do not want to sheep

Conq's too good, I would prefer to test his claim instead.  Which is easy, either by us not lynching or me investigating, I would recommend the former.

Serela wagon on D2 start was just my cop result. Note that its before Vhaltz pulled captain planet.

Sky Paladin is claimed jailkeep, jailing those who have claimed, we can confirm their towness later.
I also do not see placing my reads on the table as being scum, for information is necessary for any mafia games. Though I am still answering most inquiries directed to me anyway since I simply cannot risk random scum leading a partial wagon then removing my passive.
---------------------------------

tldr you may want to lynch dan, but wait please since its still ages until deadline.
Before I move on, I must remark of Prims behavior in the QT.

His reads on players are generated mostly based on his previous interactions with them, which, in a nutshell doesn't even work; they play bad last game, but they can and will improve by correcting their mistakes and altering their style. Which makes most of his so called reads actually do not even stand for they only contain his comment on a few players.

Based on his mentality as a replacement starting afresh, it is not unlikely for him to make bold strokes as scum considering how in this game, stated in the rules, have no prodding system. Making it plausible for one scum to lurk while the other diverting attention away from said lurkscum. SB could actually be too busy with his games, or just realized his lurkstrat cannot persist forever and thus requested a switch. Then the rest is history; Prims trying to look enthusiastic town with a clean record while brainwashing most of us in the QT with walls of short reads in hopes that we will sheep for him.

Therefore I find him scummy, lack of a clear case towards one individual is suspicious enough. Plus there's the fact that he also gladly went with the ''sheep whoever is okay'' stance DESPITE he has clearly shown a huge degree of passion towards his reads. Quality regardless, the short reads which do not really sway the game, but enough to show contribution; Weak stance on any of his cases cannot convict him as scum bad enough.

My scumteam: Prims (former SB)/Serela/Dan

Just don't fucking vote dan and end the day now, even if you want him dead bad.

And Serela's claim of vig simply makes no sense whatsoever, please genuinely match his posting behavior and how quickly and willingly he obliged to my accusation of not having posted enough instead of explaining why beforehand he DIDN'T DO SO. And think of whether it makes enough sense of you for there to be three vigs in one 14 player game.

[Sky_Paladin]

## unvote
## vote Serela

Darks comment on wheeling for Dan also cut me, so. I should vote for somebody I actually believe to be harmful, right?

[Serela]

Darkie "OH NO TOO MANY VIGS IN ONE GAME WHO PROBABLY NEVER GET TO SHOOT ANYWAY"

Seriously, BT's vig had a -very- low chance of coming to fruition if you seriously think about it, Conq's vig activating practially guarentee's BT's will not AND also just balances out town's no-lynch (so town comes out with the same number of town-minded kills as if they had lynched in the first place), and while I haven't claimed my conditional it is also pretty damn unlikely to happen, DESPITE HOW HOPEFUL I CONTINUE TO BE ABOUT IT

On a whole I do not agree with Dan wagon, the major point being made is that he's lurking

Nope, you're looking at it wrong. Dan isn't just "lurking", he pretty much literally refused to scumhunt even when people were hounding him about it (he -eventually- gave in and said he'd read some people, but not only has he not done it and it's been over 30 hours (!?), it doesn't make up for the previous talk being nigh-unimaginable from a town player)

He tried to use a town clear (that is -not- in actuality a town clear) as why he wasn't going to scumhunt when confronted about it, and instead of trying to do any scumhunting he put his effort into arguing his confirmed-town-ness instead, and then OMGUS'd people who voted him anyway (which is also -really really scummy-)

The case is not "Dan is lurking". It was that at the beginning of D2, but since then he's done a lot of super scummy stuff as soon as people actually scrutinized him, and then dropped off the face of the planet to boot. If PX wasn't taking an abnormal stance of not punishing lurkers, Dan would be in danger-of-modkill territory right now. (But he's not, so we have to lynch him instead)

I'm also not sure I understand why you think HW is baseless. While overrelying on Meta is bad, and in some cases HW does ADMIT his read isn't so solid and more just "I think I'm good at reading this person" and he admits it openly (it's not like it's for his scumreads anyway), I don't think this applies to most of his reads or anything >_>

If you've played in a place with a small playerbase for multiple years, you're going to be using previous knowledge of their play as you read them. And it's probably going ot be helpful. While people do tend to try to change, there's only so much they can do- they're very likely to act similarly to how they have in the past, because it's just how they work.

You saw HW has a lack of a clear case towards anyway, but I think his Dan thing is sufficient? He didn't say a lot about Dan, but quite honestly, Dan is a very open-and-shut case. All there really is to it is stating whether you agree or disagree it makes him scum.

Conq's too good, I would prefer to test his claim instead.  Which is easy, either by us not lynching or me investigating, I would recommend the former.

Conq's "too good"? What is this supposed to mean? Anyway, we're not no-lynching. What if Conq just gets nightkilled or the scum can roleblock him or something? Even if we have a doc (err, jailer?), scum might have a strongman kill to go through it; with what we know of the setup so far that's not unlikely.

Investigating him is useless. Whether he's scum or town telling the truth, he's going to come up "positive". It'd be a depressing waste of your night action. The only way you'd get a result other then "positive" is if he's town lying about having ITP conditionals which makes absolutely no sense and means we still don't want to lynch him anyway. (I highly doubt scum has a person with immunity to your cop because half the townies are already false positives, any more would mean PX is a dick)

Plus there's the fact that he also gladly went with the ''sheep whoever is okay'' stance DESPITE

I don't  have a lot of time because I have work soon so I'd rather just ask you to show me where he does this (HW tends to joke a good bit as forewarning, also you might be interpreting something wrong)

please genuinely match his posting behavior and how quickly and willingly he obliged to my accusation of not having posted enough instead of explaining why beforehand he DIDN'T DO SO.

I'm confused I don't understand. Please explain. Anyway the other two parts of "why serela should die" are silly shenanigans about me having a conditional vig, which I already explained.

[Serela]

wait, you said you on a whole do not agree with the dan wagon but then he's on your estimated scumteam

[Serela]

You saw HW has a lack of a clear case towards anyway

towards anyone*

also hw has some other scumreads too iirc but honestly I don't remember concretely enough so I'm not going to go further on that

gtg get ready for work, not actually leaving for like 40 minutes though so I'll still be able to reply to stuff if you respond fairly soon

[Serela]

towards anyone*

you said* towards anyone*

>_> <_<

[Serela]

Actually now that I think about it, I think the wagons between Dan and me are even right now >_>

Granted, Polly unvoted to avoid quickhammer but still wants Dan lynched (afaik) and NNR expressed desire to lynch Dan over me but didn't switch because it would put him at L-1 (iirc) so I don't think I actually need to be worried.

But. :T

[Serela]

Don't you people dare put me at L-1 today because scum!Dan would be all over quickhammering that.

[Serela]

off to work BBL

[PX]

Don't Go Any Other Way!

Song: Go My Way!

ActionDan (3) - Serela, I have no name, huhwhat
Shadoweh (1) - Zakeri
Serela (3) - Darkninjaabc, NekoNekoRex, Sky Paladin
NekoNekoRex (1) - Conqueror
Zakeri (1) - Shadoweh
Not Voting: ActionDan, Polaris

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||(64%)

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[DNAbc]

Serela, you still haven't fullclaimed despite we repeatly asked you to many, many times. Its' not just once, but again and again, even when you are now at L-3, you still refuse to fullclaim your role, is there really anyone other than scum who will do this?


Even with meta wild guessing aside, the major point I have always made on you is how you have lurked through a major portion of d1, and just spontaneously came to life in d2 once arguments have been made on you, which is pretty damning evidence considering how carefree after lynch and that your intial attitude with either wagons being quite emotionally invested, or such that you would want us to believe. 

Worse still, you have never explained the crumbs for your lurk in d1, detailing your thoughts at the time, which is a thing I have asked you to tell us since in literally almost every single goddamn post I made. Why would this even be a concern to one who's town, just fullclaim your role and thoughts on what the hell happened in d1 behavior and we see if the pieces fit together, imho you have already dragged this way past the event horizon, the only possibilty otherwise can only be that you are scum, and you and your scumteam need to decide on whether to hard defend you or just draft up some believable shit.

You literally have been doing nothing in d1, sans nitpicking posts and posting neutral stuff which doesn't help with reads. There has never been any detailed cases which spawn from you, and you have never bothered to explain said lack of detailed cases. Even when being the leading wagon, you still refused to fullclaim the details of your so-called unlikely-to-ever-proc-vigilante-role,  you tell us its unlikely to proc, and therefore we should trust you and this combined with the fact that there's already been 2 more vig makes 3 vigs totally reliable. It doesn't work like that, we do not necessarily have to trust conq's claim, for it might just be a gambit, and we have even less of a reason to trust you for we still haven't heard a fullclaim from you. If anything, you are the prime candidate to lynch. Scum.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

serela you should probably just go ahead and fullclaim

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

actually this serela wagon sucks

dark, reply in the quicktopic if you didn't see

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

oh I guess he's not around.

basically, my altcon says I'm not considered a threat to the town. from this it can be assumed that all the alt wincons that don't say anything about this are. which means the result on serela doesn't mean shit, at all

anybody else who has an alternate wincon that's not considered a threat should be able to confirm this

so basically i take back what i said about serela being sk, he's probably just town.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

the actual serial killer is: Conqueror

[I have no name]

Meanwhile, IHNN handwaving my slot as town is just weird, especially after he grouped it in with the active people. SB had barely posted anything and wasn't obvtown in any sense of the word, this just makes it look like IHNN already knows I'm town because he is a mafia. That said I think this is a lot weaker than the dirt on Dan and Validon.

I had been reading SB as town and know I'm horrible at reading you unless something jumps out, and nothing is so far.

Serela, you still haven't fullclaimed despite we repeatly asked you to many, many times. Its' not just once, but again and again, even when you are now at L-3, you still refuse to fullclaim your role, is there really anyone other than scum who will do this?

Yes, there are valid reasons for town not to claim their role.  If Serela has a conditional vig that's unlikely, did you consider that revealing the condition would make the chance of it occurring 0?

Even when being the leading wagon, you still refused to fullclaim the details of your so-called unlikely-to-ever-proc-vigilante-role,  you tell us its unlikely to proc, and therefore we should trust you and this combined with the fact that there's already been 2 more vig makes 3 vigs totally reliable. It doesn't work like that, we do not necessarily have to trust conq's claim, for it might just be a gambit, and we have even less of a reason to trust you for we still haven't heard a fullclaim from you. If anything, you are the prime candidate to lynch. Scum.

Don't try to PoE what roles will/won't exist from the setup on conditional vigs >_>  Also fullclaims don't mean anything because...

Anybody can ask for a fakeclaim at any time

...so claiming willingly I would read as null leaning scum and not claiming at all until absolutely necessary is completely null in this game, IMO.

If you guys really want to we can lynch Serela but today we are lynching Dan, because I'm pretty sure we can all agree that he needs to die.

[WHMZakeri]

as for why I am disregarding shadoweh for style points, that is because if we lynch Shadoweh I feel the game will be a lot more boring. As the Romans say, variety is the spice of life, in which Shadoweh is the variety and mafia is life as we know it.

plus I bet Shadoweh plans on being loud and obnoxious and she's done a lot of things that she will have to take responsibility for which seems very anti-scum to me. I didn't immediately clear her as town because Shadoweh but technically she's on my skimmed town reads I suppose.

don't get the wrong idea ok? it's not because i like shadoweh or anything.

This sounds worthless, and also kind of like a series of bullshit excuses to deny a wagon (that doesn't even exist, curse everyone of you).

btw I think CF7 is scummy so

##Vote IHNN

This also feels like a weird thing to push, like of all the scumspects to push, why the one that's not even playing the game anymore? It doesn't even feel like you're pushing Nameless, you're literally just going after an unflipped dead guy.

I like Huhwhat, despite the fact that all he's really done is give me hope only to rip it away a few posts later.

umm, as much as I enjoy spending the time being a useless piece of magikarp, it's been more than 72 hours into the day and I feel like some attempt at consolidation and admitting that it is way too boring sitting in a wagon trying to grease the tires is due.

##Unvote: Shadoweh
##Vote: ActionDan (L-2)

Dan is been my second pick for scum all day, so I guess I'm not unhappy with this anyways. Also, Dan's flip is much more useful to us than Serela's ever will be, since the way He's gone about claiming it proves the Serela is incapable of lying about what his role does.
The only part he hasn't claimed is what actually needs to happen in order to get his vig shot going, and that's probably the least likely part to be suspicious of, so the calls for a fullclaim seem kind of lame to me.
There's also the fact that Dan is fullscum, while Serela has nigglings of townie almond in the dark chocolate of suspiciousness.

[Conqueror]

still in the process of rereading but what do people think about a no lynch? i dont think there's a mafia rb since sky claimed something like jk and rb-jk interactions are nasty. plus there's a claimed cop running around so...