Adorable Game of Mafia (Everyone wins!)

[NekoNekoRex]

Erg, NekoRex as a D1 wagon was inevitable as always, I suppose.

Dude has spent most of his time sniping other players while voteparking. Rex, if Omba looked bad to you early on for the Raitaki vote, and looked bad to you later in hindsight, why's your vote been on Serela this whole time? Seems opportunistic given that you haven't followed your Serela stance up with anything. Additionally,

I've had a reason for this! Serela hasn't contributed anything recently, and it's a fallacy that I should vote Omba for having more recent and scummy content.

How was this worse than your Raitaki vote, which was the same sort of "try harder" prodvote? You also referred to Raitaki's ED1 as "completely worthless".

I throw around a LOT of hyperboles, okay? Also my posts towards Raitaki have been constructive, while Omba's comment was just plain negative.

Also, when Raitaki improved himself to you, why did you immediately go for the rising wagon instead of attempting to re-read Omba and PX before voting, when they both previously irked you?

I don't have a problem with PX at the moment? Omba's aggression wasn't clear until later on. Also you may notice I was the first one to vote Serela. His wagon started with me.

Would I really switch off my own wagon so easily?

[Pesco]

Doesn't change the fact that both your Raitaki and Serela votes are flimsy.

[NekoNekoRex]

Doesn't change the fact that both your Raitaki and Serela votes are flimsy.

Raitaki was an Early Day 1 vote, of course it's flimsy.

I think Serela is opportunistic scum jumping on IHNN's wagon and trying to cover and defend herself with walls of fluff, and furthermore I agree with Shadoweh's writeup(s) on Serela.

My Serela vote looks flimsy because Serela has only posted a few large text walls today, and not had a very active participation in the rest of the thread affairs.

This is the same fallacies that were complained about pregame, with people only wanting to lynch active folks.

[Edible]

Vote Count: SHOPPING edition

Serela (4): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, Raitaki
NekoNekoRex (3): PX, Pesco, huh what
IHNN (2): BT, Serela
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity
Raitaki (1): Omba

Not voting: Nobody!

You have ~6 hours remaining.  With 12 in play, it takes 7 votes to launch.

[Raitaki]

Don't know about the NNR case yet. Agree that Neko's been sniping on various people through D1, however to me at least this line of action reads null. Also this Omba-Neko tennis match needs to stop. IMO it's distracting Neko from scumhunting other people, and makes a lot of Omba's post just retaliations at NNR's posts :\ This activity surely isn't making either player more productive.

There is only around 6 hours remaining, I suggest Omba, BT and Serela drop their current votes (@BT: It's pointless to keep your vote their atm, the case on IHNN is dying and Serela certainly isn't helping) and choose one of the current bandwagons to go with. Unless we flip scum there'd be at least 2 deaths a night due to lack of protective roles, so NLs won't do.

[I have no name]

Unless we flip scum there'd be at least 2 deaths a night due to lack of protective roles, so NLs won't do.

4) Don't bully No Lynch-chan.  Voting to No Lynch is not allowed, and a majority MUST be reached by the end of each day or Rocks Fall And You Will Die.

There'd only be 1 death per night though, the scum faction as a whole gets 1 NK.
I'm here for now but will be away for an hour soon.  I'll be around for deadline though.

I can see where the case on Neko is coming from and the steps taken to reach it, but I don't entirely agree with it, Neko seems sincere in his opinions and seems to be trying.  I don't have time to take a closer look right now but that's my opinion on it at a glance.

Handwaving play as silly needs to stop.

:ohdear:

The following:
Quote from: I have no name on August 01, 2012, 04:58:50 pm
There's something funny about Omba though in general I find myself agreeing. Scum can be right about stuff and at the time something felt off
Quote from: I have no name on August 01, 2012, 10:29:11 pm
*sigh*
and again, more experienced players come in and put into words what I'm thinking far more eloquently/convincingly than I've been able to.   This holds despite the EBWOP due to my inexperience at writing casewalls
Kilga's post pretty much exactly sums it up, with more words and more reasons than I would have.
Quote from: I have no name on August 02, 2012, 04:34:51 pm
Omba:
<stuff that existed during the former post was made>
Verdict: Likely scum.   Opinion changing is scummy?  Being away then coming to the same conclusions as several others is scummy?

EBWOP to the bolded part: before having to go to bed for the night.
Additionally, the first and last posts of those 3 are separated by 24 hours; you expect me to have the same opinions on everyone 24 hours later?  Most of my opinions didn't change, so IMO seizing on the only tentative town read that I later thought was scum is scummy.

[Pesco]

I want to reactionvote Raitaki for claiming there'd be 2 deaths.

[Raitaki]

That's fine.

If I may though, I blame SEN mafia

Half jokes aside, I'll reiterate the point that we should start deciding between the current top 3 wagons unless someone brings a case strong enough to convince people to quicklynch someone else. Atm the minor cases aren't getting much attention, so votes on those are about as likely to get a lynch as voteparks.

I myself is torn between Omba and Serela. Unless convinced otherwise I'd support a lynch on those two over the others.

[NekoNekoRex]

I want to reactionvote Raitaki for claiming there'd be 2 deaths.

But we're in an open setup with no vigilantes...

[Raitaki]

But we're in an open setup with no vigilantes...

Think it's time for clarity. When I read the MS wiki, the part where they said all scum can use the factional nk made me misunderstand that each can nk once.

[Pesco]

Don't know about the NNR case yet. Agree that Neko's been sniping on various people through D1, however to me at least this line of action reads null. Also this Omba-Neko tennis match needs to stop. IMO it's distracting Neko from scumhunting other people, and makes a lot of Omba's post just retaliations at NNR's posts :\ This activity surely isn't making either player more productive.

I myself is torn between Omba and Serela. Unless convinced otherwise I'd support a lynch on those two over the others.

Soft dissuading from a NNR lynch makes me want to stay on it even more.

[Omba]

I don't think Raitaki has improved that much. Would still be up for lynching him.
That said, Neko and Serela both read as scum. As much as it pains me not go through with the lurker policy lynch I wanted, Neko needs the rope more than Serela.
There've simply been too many inconsistencies in his cases, starting with his one on Raitaki. I find it very hard to believe that what he's posting is the result of actually trying to find scum.

##Unvote
##Vote NekoNekoRex

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

This kind of language sounds really odd from you. It's the kind of parsing I would expect Affinity to write. What do you mean by 'dynamic enough to be satisfying'? I also dislike how you use the vote on NNR to sidestep commenting on Serela. At all. He's a p. big wagon right now but you give an opinion on everyone but? Earlier you said you agreed with the case on him but right now it looks like you wouldn't touch it.

Right now it looks like he's actually trying and has insight. I still find his early-day play scummy  and would like him explain why it took him so long to come up with anything good like I said (he pretty much ignored my unvoting paragraph), but more pressing matters etc. He was starting to look better and keeping my vote down on him wasn't going to do much with the wagon crumbling.

I only have so many words. I didn't express disapproval with the Serela lynch, so I'm still fine wth it but think Rex is more likely to flip scum. Would switch to Serela for deadline though.

[NekoNekoRex]

I don't think Raitaki has improved that much. Would still be up for lynching him.
That said, Neko and Serela both read as scum. As much as it pains me not go through with the lurker policy lynch I wanted, Neko needs the rope more than Serela.
There've simply been too many inconsistencies in his cases, starting with his one on Raitaki. I find it very hard to believe that what he's posting is the result of actually trying to find scum.

##Unvote
##Vote NekoNekoRex

Care to point out any inconsistencies besides my ED1 vote?

I find it hard to believe the major case on me here is that I'm waffling on a vote on a newbie that I put down in the middle of RVS. This is Angel Beats D1 levels of bad.

[BT]

IHNN. That part of my post accused you of waiting on writing an Omba case. Nothing else. Why are you accusing me of accusing you of changing reads when I did nothing of the sort?

Raitaki: Fair enough. I fully expect everyone to take a good look at IHNN's game today.

##Unvote
##Vote Serela (L-2)

The only things I find crooked about NNR- I already mentioned, nothing else screams at me after several rereads. Would lynch Serela over NNR, would lynch NNR over Omba.

cuts. Omba, what inconsistencies? I'm rather satisfied with how NNR explained his Raitaki vote era.

more cuts

[Raitaki]

@HW: I was struggling and you said I should at least comment on the wagons, so I decided to that instead, as that doesn't require as much scumhunting as...pure scumhunting. At that point I decided I wasn't going very far with trying to outguess scum intents etc so I decided to just scumread based on motivation and weight of contributed content.

-cuts-

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I've had a reason for this! Serela hasn't contributed anything recently, and it's a fallacy that I should vote Omba for having more recent and scummy content

Why is Serela scummier than Omba from your point of view, though? Your case on Serela was basically a couple of buzzwords - "looks forced" and "backed up with fluff" doesn't cite specific examples.

I don't have a problem with PX at the moment? Omba's aggression wasn't clear until later on. Also you may notice I was the first one to vote Serela. His wagon started with me.

The point was more that Serela's post was pretty bad and likely to gain him some votes for being Serela. I'm not asking about your current reads - why did you not give a fuck about PX and Omba when you went to vote Serela?

[Shadoweh]

I want to shoot Pesco with my vigilante kill for trying to throw suspicion on the newbie for thinking there'd be two kills at night but that doesn't seem to be happening either.

HEY SERELA YOU GOT TWO HOURS LEFT HERE'S YOUR CHANCE TO CLAIM WATCHER VOYEUR!

That said, Neko and Serela both read as scum. As much as it pains me not go through with the lurker policy lynch I wanted, Neko needs the rope more than Serela.

Then do it because he's a scummy guy doing some scummy stuff. The reason you're voting for Neko applies to Serela as soon as I do this:

There've simply been too many inconsistencies in his cases, starting with his one on Raitaki. I find it very hard to believe that what he's posting is the result of actually trying to find scum.

[Kilgamayan]

Have no problem with either Serela lynch or NNR lynch should I not get Omba lynch, find them both scummy as previously stated. Will not support Raitaki lynch should he become a numerically viable candidate.

Not having had chance to do more than skim-read developments since I left for work, head slightly prefers a Serela lynch to an NNR lynch due to recalled differences in effort.

Cut by 4 posts, reading now, but break almost over.

[I have no name]

IHNN. That part of my post accused you of waiting on writing an Omba case. Nothing else. Why are you accusing me of accusing you of changing reads when I did nothing of the sort?

Because I misunderstood.
Writing a case takes time, time that I didn't really have until I wrote it.

[NekoNekoRex]

Why is Serela scummier than Omba from your point of view, though? Your case on Serela was basically a couple of buzzwords - "looks forced" and "backed up with fluff" doesn't cite specific examples.

Already mentioned this. Serela's vote on IHNN looked like a cheap wagon hop that wasn't backed up by very much evidence. It stuck out because it was a late vote in the wagon and the post wasn't very convincingly written, like scum trying to make a cheap excuse to add momentum to the wagon.

IHNN is posting a bunch, and it feels like he's at least trying, even if it's coming out sort of weird, so I'm not interested in him as a D1 lynch.

Serela says this, but then goes back to waffle on it with a subpar reason.

He goes through all that only for him to chicken out and go back to voting Raitaki. Okay, well, I guess he never -was- voting Raitaki, but it almost feels like he has been, considering how he's been talking about him during the day so far. IHNN's BT vote only felt like an afterthought given the amount of attention he gave it in his post compared to everything else, and he was easily talked out of it. He barely even sounds convinced in his Raitaki vote, saying "Well he looks worse in hindsight" and moreso in "...but he's using logic! But logic is null, soooooo..."

I basically read this as "I'm voting IHNN because his posts sound like he doesn't care". It's not convincing and doesn't explain very well why IHNN is scummy.

The point was more that Serela's post was pretty bad and likely to gain him some votes for being Serela. I'm not asking about your current reads - why did you not give a fuck about PX and Omba when you went to vote Serela?

BREAKING NEWS
Player rereads game, gets different opinions
Story at 3

I called out PX early in the day (again, middle of RVS) but I didn't see anything else about him that stuck out since then. Not a reason to switch votes.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Serela, question. You said that IHNN looked like he was trying right before you got cut by him, and that was your justification for not originally supporting his lynch. Why did this cut suddenly make it look like he wasn't trying?

[Omba]

Care to point out any inconsistencies besides my ED1 vote?

The way you spent many words to point out what was -not- a reason for your vote on Raitaki is a big point.
But the most egregious example by far is your main point in the case on me.
You stated in #201 that you're making an effort to play nice.
This means you need to consciously word your posts to read nicely - i.e. you aren't nice. Let's be perfectly clear here for a moment. If Edible wasn't there holding this huge modhammer over our heads, we'd be flaming each other into oblivion right about now. I know that. You know that.
But yet, you openly stated that your main reason for thinking me scum is that I read as aggressive and disrespectful. Nevermind the modkill last game - if you were town this game, you would -know- that you yourself as town aren't a nice player and need to make an effort to fake it. There's simply no way you can go from there to confidently stating that someone else who's not so nice, too, has to be scum because of it.
tl;dr you're an ass, I'm an ass, thinking I'm scum because I'm an ass doesn't make sense if you're town.

BT: Re-read the reasoning Neko gave for voting Raitaki at that point. It's long-winded and contains more about what's -not- included in his case than what is. Overspecification in that way is a clear sign he didn't actually believe in the case at the time he was voting him.

[Serela]

Blargh I have to go somewhere really soon. Trying to make an actual post in the time I've got.

First off, obligatory not-me-over-me for obvious reasons.

##Unvote ##Vote NekoNekoRex

TBH I don't really think Neko is scum, but obv would prefer it over self, and I haven't had time to really look at his more recent stuff in-depth either. Agree that Raitaki looks a lot better now, still think IHNN/Omba are scummy, etc. Ahhhh what else is there. I can't think of anything other then case elaborations that I don't have time to reread and make. Will be back in time for deadline and able to claim then if needed, etc. If you ask me questions before then I'll totally answer them and stuff too!

Oh look, there's one now. HW:Because he went and voted Raitaki for reasons that felt empty and lazy, and it felt like a sudden big step backwards to me.

Actually, in hindsight, I'm not quite sure how I still feel about IHNN after his more recent stuff, but I haven't had time today to actually read it; it's been one of my rare busy days so I'm really falling behind on this game right now.

[Shadoweh]

Serela this is now ad-libs fill in the blank.

"I claim that I am a _____."

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

We only have about an hour and a half. Claiming now seems like a good idea.

[Raitaki]

Now it'd be easier for everyone if those last 2 posts were made before Serela claimed to going out

[Raitaki]

EBWOP
**'d be would have been

[Edible]

Vote Count: quack edition

Serela (5): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, IHNN, Raitaki, BT
NekoNekoRex (5): PX, Pesco, huh what, Omba, Serela
Omba (2): Kilgamayan, Affinity

Not voting: Nobody!

You have ~3.5 hours remaining.  With 12 in play, it takes 7 votes to launch.

[Shadoweh]

Unfortunately I am not a psychic. I believe I made my wish for Serela to claim already quite clear. If he doesn't think it's important, he can also feel free to die.