Popcorn Mafia (GAME OVER - TOWN WINS)

[capt. h]

26 hours remaining.

Timer.

[Omba]

Taokaka. Would you currently shoot Serela?

[Lexicat]

Tao doesn't know what a Serela is, but she certainly wouldn't shoot one!
 

[Affinity]

I'm for shooting Omba for being lame, wobbly, and downright jello.  Seems to be adept at supporting every viable target (e.g rawr, dan, serela) and more, and his decisions keep changing with little sense of who over who over what.  While I may be lame, I am at least sure and steadfast in being lame.

If I was scum I would lie as low as possible, bus all my scumbuddies, and try to win by numbers.

[Lexicat]

I'll also endorse an Affinity shot.

[Omba]

Seems to be adept at supporting every viable target (e.g rawr, dan, serela) and more

In your view, were the players I named as good shots actually such at the time I did?

[Omba]

Taokaka should not be shot btw. Most likely saw the same thing I did and reacted like this.

[Affinity]

In your view, were the players I named as good shots actually such at the time I did?

Not sure what you mean here?

[capt. h]

Dr. Rawr has received a prod.

22.5 hours remaining.

Timer.

[Omba]

Not sure what you mean here?

At the time I voted Dan, did you think he was reasonably likely to be scum (completely regardless of the reasoning I (didn't) give). Same for the rest.

[Serela]

Serela, did you take a post restriction and if so, what is it?

Since the requirement was cut out I ended up not being able to be bothered to do one, despite having been excited about it beforehand.

what would you consider optimal scum play in this setup?

This depends too much on what's going on :S But for one thing, the fact that you don't have to vote makes it a lot easier to passively (or perhaps even somewhat actively, especially if the shooter isn't supportive) bus scumbuddies (Or well, safer) , not to mention recently MotK has a reputation for ridiculous amounts of bussing anyway.

Still definitely want to shoot Dan. Can't really come to a clear conclusion on anyone else except for slight town reads on a couple (like Neko)

[Dr Rawr]

the prodding has been received.... reading

[Conqueror]

zzz guys I ain't asking these questions for show. 

Aren't you even a tiny bit interested in me?

@Neko: I'll rephrase to make myself more clear.

First off, there's a difference between clearing bad play with ~*meta*~ and realizing that such and such is someone's playstyle, and I feel like you're misrepping Omba's statement by boiling it down to >implying. And in the end it sounds like you're attacking LLD because you think she sounds a jackass.

This is, by the way, why I asked the question I asked. IS it scummy to want to influence Bard's shot? I want you to all think long and hard about it.

Bard may be a confirmed townie, but nobody is perfect, Bard's gut could be completely wrong, and a crowd works better then an individual, even if that crowd does have some seeds of dissent.

I think the best action is to analyze posts and try to see who is being the most manipulative here - that's who the scum is going to be.

Being subtle, trying to manipulate opinions. "We should" or "You should" are scum phrases in this situation.

These are empty words without a conclusion. You're asking us questions without providing any of your own thoughts on them. So share with us: what's your opinion on the first questions you asked? Who is being most manipulative and how? I don't like it when people offer observations that aren't really related to the game events because it's a soft way of not getting involved.


Serela, why Dan over everyone else? Half of the reasons you provided for scum!Dan you talk yourself out of immediately afterwards.

Affinity, why is Omba scum for being one of the more open-minded people around? I don't get the impression that he's supporting all these so-called viable targets simultaneously, so your position feels a bit slippery. The fact that he's actively making conversation is townier than not imo, especially given the lurkfest that is this game. What do you think about the targets you mention?

The half of the game that hasn't said anything of worth recently (which is...most of the playerlist rofl) should get in here with the deadline so close. At this point I wouldn't really mind Bardiche shooting any of them, although I guess I still prefer Serela.

[Conqueror]

Eh, I should probably rephrase that since I don't actually want Bard firing blindly into a sea of nulls. :V
Still think Serela has a good chance of being scum from what he's put out. NekoNekoRex, Rawr, IHNN could all be lurkscum but ultimately just haven't provided enough content to tell. Seriously guys, wtf. You're not all scum.

Happy Birthday, Mr. President

[Bardiche]

I'd just like to say I have made my decision and will be shooting Affinity unless revelations abound.

[Bardiche]

EDIT: I will also be willing to shoot Serela if someone else will shoot Affinity at a later point given Affinity isn't a bad player and his strength, as Town, may be beneficial.

[Affinity]

I guess... I really am a lamer after all.

At the time I voted Dan, did you think he was reasonably likely to be scum (completely regardless of the reasoning I (didn't) give). Same for the rest.

Reasonable as in marginally higher than one-third?  As I said before, I do find rawr suspicious for his lurker scumreads, which got outdated very fast.  For the others, Dan's evolution from Nameless to Serela (especially compared to your sudden switches) and Serela's original stuff on Dan (however invalid) feel town.

That's not the main point though, and your question feels like a strangely lame deflection.  I'm not getting how you layer your suspicions one atop another with none of them receding.  It feels like you're covering all bases, touch-and-go style.

Affinity, why is Omba scum for being one of the more open-minded people around? I don't get the impression that he's supporting all these so-called viable targets simultaneously, so your position feels a bit slippery.

It's easy to be open-minded when you are agreeing with possibilities with one-liner reasons without evaluation.  Not seeing these 'conversations' either, the ones I took note of are either on sociological applications to mafia here, or on Dan's 'Affinity and Conq' thing here, which was as passe as flower power in the 90s. 

[NekoNekoRex]

Reading up and considering the questions I've been asked. It'll take awhile.

[NekoNekoRex]

I've been generally answering my own questions quite fine, first of all. When it comes to influencing opinions on the gun bearer, I don't see much of a problem with it, so long as it isn't subtle.

Being outspoken and clear is the way to go. Opinions on who should be shot and shouldn't should be concise. Being on the fence about people or hinting that someone is scummy without being clear about it is what I define as "being manipulative".

The reason I don't like Taokaka's posts were for the above reason; saying "Rawr is scum bard" and "Your reactions are simply confirming [you're scum] for me." is, while pretty clear on opinion, not clear at all on reason. Explain how the reactions are scummy, don't just say they are scummy. Was Rawr being over-reactive? Unclear? Too defensive or offensive? It also felt like gotcha games to me, Taokaka used one bad (opinion) post to attack rawr ceaselessly.

Also screw PRs, I always use a PR and then drop it pretty quickly, it gets in the way of trying to make a decent post and it takes long enough to type these up as-is, unless it's a pretty simple one.

I'm still endorsing a Taokaka shot, although the Affinity opinion seems pretty popular and I also disagree on sentiments about shooting Omba and the reasoning, Omba's play is pretty good so far, despite disagreements about my opinions (and therefore I don't like Affinity for calling Omba out on it)

Might have more to say, might not. On the subject of who's being manipulative, I haven't really seen too much, although I'm probably not analyzing posts enough to catch it if it's there.

[NekoNekoRex]

Apparently nobody posts during the morning =V

[I have no name]

I am not lurking for going to sleep and then having something to do in the morning :S  Either way I'm here now and here's a post.

The reason I don't like Taokaka's posts were for the above reason; saying "Rawr is scum bard" and "Your reactions are simply confirming [you're scum] for me." is, while pretty clear on opinion, not clear at all on reason. Explain how the reactions are scummy, don't just say they are scummy. Was Rawr being over-reactive? Unclear? Too defensive or offensive? It also felt like gotcha games to me, Taokaka used one bad (opinion) post to attack rawr ceaselessly.

Taokaka is playing exactly like Bogre from the previous iteration.  Exactly.

Bard is confirmed town.
ActionDan is very likely town.  Has posted reads, good thought processes, and was active ED1.
Conq is very likely town.  Has very good thought processes, is asking questions and generating content.
Serela reads as pretty town to me right now, I like his thought processes right now, although he's not really pushing opinions (though the same can be said of most of us at this point).  If someone could explain to me why Serela is scum that would help, I don't remember seeing that earlier.
Neko also feels town to me.  He's active and the posts reach logical conclusions.  Would not shoot at the moment.
Omba also feels town to me.  He's active and asks questions that need to be asked.  Would not shoot at the moment.
Affinity is 'lame'.  This is a shot I'm ok with, because I don't like his stance on Omba.  It comes across as "oh crap I've been caught better get someone else shot instead eeny meeny miny Omba".
I don't like rawr.  Something about his posts feels forced to me, and they feel rather disjointed.  Is that how he usually plays?  IIRC he didn't play like that D1 of MC Mafia.
LLD has done almost nothing.  Do some stuff that isn't playing like Bogre/calling rawr scum.  I agree that rawr is scummy, but we have no idea what else you're thinking.

[capt. h]

8.75 hours remaining.

Timer.

[Omba]

It comes across as "oh crap I've been caught better get someone else shot instead eeny meeny miny Omba".

First post by Affinity, he votes me. No name goes up on my scum list.

Regardless of that, shooting Affinity is good. Case sometime soon.

[I have no name]

First post by Affinity, he votes me.

I missed that.  In that case, the reason is not "random choice" but "let's push my first target even farther so if I go down they go down with me"

[I have no name]

I missed that.  In that case, the reason is not "random choice" but "let's push my first target even farther so if I go down they go down with me"

Alternatively bussing, but speculating as to which is pointless until we get at least 1 flip.

[ActionDan]

I will be pretty much unable to post for today + tomorrow.

Affinity is not scum with Serela, one of his posts said that he found serela's jab at me town minded when Serela is a serious contender to be shot.  I doubt scum would do that.  However if serela town, that same line could come from a scum perspective.   

I am going to agree with Conq about Omba (that he's more likely town), metametameta

[NekoNekoRex]

Sleepy time

Hopefully will be back before deadline.

IHNN: I have no idea who Bogre is. How does that factor into Taokaka's play?

I think reliance on meta for reads is a bad thing, I want to point out. People can use meta to make their playstyle seem more town then it actually could be, and I don't think it should be used to rule people out for reads.

[I have no name]

IHNN: I have no idea who Bogre is. How does that factor into Taokaka's play?

I noted that she's playing exactly like one of the players from the previous iteration of popcorn mafia.  Just read the first day and you'll see the similarity (both tunneled immensely on 1 player)

[Lexicat]

IHNN, are you actually accusing me of doing nothing?
 
That's funny.

[Affinity]

Nameless feels rather lackluster at the moment?  Didn't he find me town right when I was in the process of attacking Omba, only to suddenly think it scum now or something?  I also thought he agreed with LLD's reason for going after rawr?

I don't get the feeling that people are addressing my points directly (Nameless being a direct example) as to why I think it touch-and-go rather than 'open-mindedness'.  Anyone can say that Dan is suspicious for setup speculating, that rawr is suspicious for being brash at LLD's brash attack, that Serela's waffling is scummy-looking; it is the choice between viable targets and the reasoning behind it which counts, and Omba has none of that.  I would think my line of questioning is valid in that sense.

Promising a case with 7 hours left in the day (while I'm asleep) is also pretty jerkass, but whatever.  If I had to choose someone other than Omba, Nameless and rawr would come to mind for the standard reasons, though I doubt shooting them would be very beneficial.  I am a lamer and will always be one due to my inauspicious history.