Popcorn Mafia (GAME OVER - TOWN WINS)

[NekoNekoRex]

>32 new messages

At some point this marathon sleep session is going to end and I'm going to make an actual post

By which I mean I'll work on one right now and probably won't get much else done

[Lexicat]

I gave my reasoning already, Rawr. Your reactions are simply confirming it for me.

[NekoNekoRex]

Ignoring the PR right now, I would shoot Taokaka right now, she seems awfully rushed to get Rawr shot, her reasoning isn't exactly good.

This is, by the way, why I asked the question I asked. IS it scummy to want to influence Bard's shot? I want you to all think long and hard about it.

Bard may be a confirmed townie, but nobody is perfect, Bard's gut could be completely wrong, and a crowd works better then an individual, even if that crowd does have some seeds of dissent.

I think the best action is to analyze posts and try to see who is being the most manipulative here - that's who the scum is going to be.
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The Taokaka stalks her prey, Dr Rawr. getting ready to pounce and rip apart her posts with bad reasoning and panicked posts. Meanwhile, the leader of the pack, Bard, watches the townies from his high perch, not commenting or contributing, but waiting, waiting for the right time to strike

[NekoNekoRex]

As for reads I haven't seen alot of standoutish players aside from Taokaka. I guess Omba might be town, I liked her last big post.

I'd need to go back and read individual posts from each player instead of scrolling through the page in one go to get more out there. Which I will work on.

[NekoNekoRex]

Toot Toot post train time

Yeah, I really dislike Taokaka.

I know I said to shoot competent players, but I want to direct you to the post where he tries to claim that this is a team game and that everyone should lead the vig.

Vig or not, this IS a team game, and town should be working together to flush out the scum so that the vig's shot will be sure as... I'm out of good metaphors today. The vig is only an end to a means, but the vigilante should be taking the town's input on who to kill into account when deciding his shot.

Rawr is scum, Bard.

Cool story bro. Care to tell us why?

I gave my reasoning already, Rawr. Your reactions are simply confirming it for me.

This is awfully haughty and not very constructive, you sound like a jackass with these kinds of posts.


Personally, I have no problem with outspoken players who act as if they are absolutely dead sure someone is scum, some players can steamroll entire games this way and if they're really persistent at it (and right) then it shouldn't be a problem convincing town.
But Taokaka goes about it all the wrong ways, relying on vauge reasonings and gotcha games to get her dirty work done. Not exemplary behavior from a townie for sure.

[Omba]

Is it scummy of Rawr to suggest that town should come to a consensus on who to vig? (I'm pretty sure Rawr is including Bard here)

The big difference is between coming to a non-binding consesus and lynching like it would normally work.
If the vig thinks the decision the town's votes lead to is bullshit, he should throw it out the window and shoot who he thinks is the most likely to be scum.
Unlike town, who has 3 scum in it that can lead the town on the wrong trail, the vig is definitely town. That alone is reason enough for the vig not to be bound by town's decision.

a crowd works better then an individual

Ouch. Mafia aside, politics would like to have a word with you. A king with a brain and competent advisors works better about 10 times out of 10.

oh right omba because gut i find it particularly odd for you for several posts to not mention your reasoning for wanting him shot. Also the way you worded the post sounds like you were just teasing affinity or something.

:reasons: :V

Affinity: what do you think of rawr right now?  What about Omba?

What do you think about Affinity? What about me?

Neko: I suggest reading a few of LLD's games. After you have done that, tell me if it changes your read in any way and why.

Eh, I'm not quite as sold on Rawr being scum based on the push for normal lynching alone, since that by itself might come from someone who somehow believes it would work better (a believe that, although wrong, is possible to get as a town player). The way he reacted to LLD's push reads like scum, though.

##Unvote
##Vote DrRawr

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RP coming to a post near you soon.

[capt. h]

45.75 hours remaining.

Timer.

[Affinity]

Considering I didn't give any reason for suspecting Serela, how did you come to the conclusion that what I wrote above in that post was my reason for suspecting ActionDan?

In #36, you said you suspected Dan more that Serela.  Obviously, I linked what you wrote to your conclusion.  Saying otherwise is... pretty uncool, you know.

Not sure why you think Dan's idea to shoot me and Conq scummy?  Hasn't his opinion already been superceded by his preference for Rawr or something?

In the end I still don't know why you want Dan lynched.  Yeah, token questions were asked, objections were raised, but in the end you haven't moved an inch.  You and I, we are such lamers.

===

Ninja'ed by Omba proceeding to hop, skip and jump.

[Omba]

Not sure why you think Dan's idea to shoot me and Conq scummy?  Hasn't his opinion already been superceded by his preference for Rawr or something?

The way he came to the conclusion to specifically shoot one of you two read mighty strange.
Dan seemed to think Rawr is town last time he posted reads.

Anyone apart from me you find worthy mentioning for one reason or another?

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RP's release date has been pushed back yet again. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

[I have no name]

Ouch. Mafia aside, politics would like to have a word with you. A king with a brain and competent advisors works better about 10 times out of 10.

The TAS identification experiment I ran a while ago had the group get each replay correct on all except for one.  Only one person got everything right, so from that I'd say 90% of the time the consensus is correct.

What do you think about Affinity? What about me?

I think you're leaning town, Affinity is leaning town as well, but only barely.

[Omba]

The TAS identification experiment I ran a while ago had the group get each replay correct on all except for one.  Only one person got everything right, so from that I'd say 90% of the time the consensus is correct.

Only bothering to look at the first post of that, my guess is that
a) The conclusions can be reached by more less entirely objective criteria
b) Only people that have a lot experience with that stuff even bothered to participate

whereas mafia
a) is inherently subjective
b) levels of expertise vary widely
c) there's a minority that has a vested interest in misleading the majority
(very similar to politics, really :V)

Also, how does the conclusion you reached there fit together with your #87?

[Conqueror]

I'm increasingly comfortable with Serela as scum. Leaving aside the semi-joke reason I gave earlier, I'm more worried about Serela saying this.

As for how to approach this, I'm not entirely sure how to begin with trying to figure out who's scum in this kind of setup, but I figure if we keep going in the direction we are now we'll get somewhere eventually!

Which is bullshit waffle in the style of Omba pretending not to know what to do with the box vig in Shadoweh's Secret Vanilla, especially since I don't think anyone else has suggested against "hunt scum normally" or similar. Also, from past experience, town!Serela gets excited and theorycrafts in weird setups instead of just sitting back and asking people "what do?"

If I claim scum repeatedly can I be town too? :C

I'M TOTALLY SCUM GUISE. RAWR IS MY SCUMBUDDY. We're having pizza in our QT right now! It sure washes down that cheeta-BEDTIME.

_{It's really late and I'll make a more serious post tomorrow}

Psuedo-apologizing for not having a "serious post" three hours after the game start. Guilt? Cream on the top is that he didn't make that post anyway. GET YOUR LURKING ASS IN HERE.

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." ~Macbeth

[Serela]

Okay so I never slept last night and was, as such, in a horrible state for most of the day, but I'm okay again now! So let's see here.

##Vote IHNN

Subtle pull in the post for trying to keep alive.

My head sees this and tells me to ##Vote Dan. He plays the logic and then goes "LOOK IT'S AtE KILL IT". Okay, he didn't react that seriously, but it's the basic gist of the feeling I think it's, like, well, you know, uhhh lets move on since I don't know how to word this

Oh jeez how did I forget I was making this post for the past two hours, restarting the reread I had going >_<

I don't have a town read on Omba, but he's not scum with Dan at the least. But that would be getting into flips we don't have already so whatever.

I'm pretty sure Serela is going to be PoE'd as scum soon.  Good shot definitely.

"Let's pick on the person who doesn't exist!" ...okay nevermind maybe that's a legitimate reason to do it in itself. But, i'unno, wouldn't someone who hasn't done anything at all yet -not- be a good d1 shot? This doesn't look good to me, but it's clouded by the fact that, well, it's me, so it looks like I'm OMGUS'ing if I don't like it :/ Oh whatever.

Taokaka LLD is weird in a way I don't particularly like, but LLD is weird in a way I don't particularly like to me in general from what I've seen, so, I'm not entirely sure what to do with that. I think Neko is town.

Oh hi conq! Yeah I'm sort of looking like my scum meta up 'til now, bad timing with the not sleeping >.> <.< But was that seriously 3 hours after the game started? I thought it was more like... 15 hours. I guess I could be wrong though. I'm pretty out of it right now.

instead of just sitting back and asking people "what do?"

I'm around and not doing it now ;_; And I never asked people stuff like that D: I thought where the game was going at first was perfectly fine, that's all I meant by what I had said there :3 But yeah there was guilt, because I'm town, so not posting actual things is Not Good! If I was scum at least I'd have somewhat of an excuse for not caring as much.

IHNN:The problem with consensus is the amount of control people who want to rig the system (in this case, the scum faction) have in that sort of system. In real life it's more like lobbyists or big companies or whatever (US government is messed up as hell), but, anyway, I need to go to bed. It's past midnight and I already didn't sleep last night.

But I'd totally shoot the heck out of Dan  :]

[ActionDan]

^Would sheep Conq 5/5, Zero's seal of approval.

Skimmed most of the new stuff.  Whole lotta blah.  Nothing caught my eye except Neko targetting LLD, which I'll look into later.

Edit:
Shoot Serela for profit whenever.  She used the wrong emoticon at the end.

[Conqueror]

This is, by the way, why I asked the question I asked. IS it scummy to want to influence Bard's shot? I want you to all think long and hard about it.

Bard may be a confirmed townie, but nobody is perfect, Bard's gut could be completely wrong, and a crowd works better then an individual, even if that crowd does have some seeds of dissent.

I think the best action is to analyze posts and try to see who is being the most manipulative here - that's who the scum is going to be.

Alright, I'm going to need some clarification here. First off, what's your personal opinion on this? You keep asking us but you never give an answer yourself. Judging from the next paragraph, I'd assume the answer is no, but then you say the scum is going to be "most manipulative." What does that even mean? Feels like you're contradicting yourself, saying that it's not that scummy to influence Bard's shot, but the people who are manipulating most are going to be the scum? Unless I'm misunderstanding your point here; clarify please?

Cut by Serela: Hmm, okay. What are you trying to say here though?

I thought where the game was going at first was perfectly fine, that's all I meant by what I had said there :3

Where did you think the game was going then?

"I prefer the whore that is your sister." ~Marco Materazzi

[Omba]

"I prefer the whore that is my sister."

<3

Serela's latest post is pretty horrible. Not quite sold on that not just being him on amphetamine + lack of sleep, though.
If his next post is in a similar vein, riddle him with bullets.

[Serela]

Cut by Serela: Hmm, okay. What are you trying to say here though?Where did you think the game was going then?

Erm... lovely discussion somewhat resembling a normal mafia game? Other then the parts where the gunbearer lynches instead of people coming to a consensus.

The question was how we should handle the game, I thought what was going on was fine, and it developed into what we have now, which is also fine! :3

Anyway, I'm -actually- going to bed now, despite how HORRIBLE I am with not procrastinating. *Shifts eyes*

[Conqueror]

Alright, now I'm pretty sure I can't read rawr. That said, I'm also pretty sure he's not the best theorist, so I don't find him pushing "group consensus" scummy. His reactions are null to me because this is pretty much what he does every game. >_>

rawr, explain your point on omba, because I don't get it. Also explain why you would shoot LLD especially since:

are you saying you agree with actiondans plan on killing conq and affinity(possibly you or omba) based only on speculation? I hardly find this protown seeing as its lazy and is a lame excuse for scumhunting

I'm pretty sure you're misunderstanding her point as she said only to shoot the strong players if they are scumreads iirc.

I don't want a repeat of Shadoweh/rawr from PoR.

LLD, could you expand on why this is scum!rawr and not town!rawr?


"Peace for our time" ~Neville Chamberlain

[Omba]

Serela, did you take a post restriction and if so, what is it?

[Conqueror]

Eh, I guess I want to see more from IHNN (did anyone ever tell you you're a lazy git? :V It's your job to move past passive scumhunting if you want to improve as a player) and Affinity (maybe ease up on the post restriction because it sounds like you're calling everyone lame and I'm confused about what you're trying to say).

Frankly, Omba's posts here are pretty different from the blatant bullshit (sorry, no offense) he posted the times I've seen him as scum so I'm leaning town on him.

Dan is townish too I guess. Would still like to see more from him as I'm biased towards reading him as town. :V

"Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?   
I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.   
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.   

I do not think that they will sing to me."
~T.S. Eliot

[Affinity]

Given that I and maybe Neko pretty much advocated the same thing as rawr did back here, LLD's attack (and by extension, Nameless') strikes me as rather selective.  It's like that lame attack on the evils of democracy all over again, but America shall live forever so it's alright.  Would like Nameless to answer to this, since he seems to be following LLD's lead; his lame, passive scumhunting is gradually getting to me.

I wonder why rawr specifically answered Omba's question directed at me just to find him 'leaning scum'; that bothers me, along with him assigning all the lurkers and LLD as scumreads and his more interesting observations as 'not scummy enough to shoot' here.  The fluffiness reminiscient of active lurking is certainly there.

Not that I can pin anything on LLD either since that's just the cool, enigmatic manner in which she plays.  She is indeed the Dudette of MoTK, at least on D1.

I also like Serela's cute jab on Dan enough to think him town; what a one-two punch it is.  I'm such a lamer for that.

Words!

[Conqueror]

I take back what I said about Affinity's PR; it's kinda cute in the weirdest way.
(Not that I have any idea what it is).

I also think you're amazing... ~Haqua du Lot Herminium

[Bardiche]

I gave my reasoning already, Rawr. Your reactions are simply confirming it for me.

But it needs to be confirmed for me. Even if YOU're sure Rawr is Scum and needs to be elegantly shot, it's me who needs to be convinced, dood.

Serela hasn't contributed much and has chosen to be absolutely worthless in a way unprecedented by Serela. Taokaka is LLD? In any case, their tersity makes it hard to agree to their standpoints. A request for more questions is one I can honour, I suppose, though I had intended and intend to let you squabble among yourself before meting out justice.

(noting that not all players have responded to my previous question of which I am quite aware)

If you had the gun and there were five minutes on the clock, who'd you shoot, based on information you have right now?

I don't think I've had everyone state their top target rather plainly. I don't need a "why", I just need a "who". Moreover, what would you consider optimal scum play in this setup? It's a setup question, yes, but I find it a genuinely interesting question to assist in deciding who to shoot.

[Conqueror]

Eh, based on info right now, if I had to make a last minute shot I'd shoot Serela. In the case he turns out to be town, it's not too much of a wash either since my impression is that he usually has decent gut reads but is just horrible at explaining stuff.

I think optimal scum play is pretty much playing normally, but without the lynch aspect, they have to try to direct vigs towards townies and away from scumbuddies. Or they could suggest vigs on their scumbuddies to "bus." I'm not sure what the question is tbh, since aside from the rotating vig mechanic this is pretty much a normal nightless setup.
If you're talking about initial vig choice, I could honestly see scum either choosing a vocal/strong player hoping that they'll off themselves, or choosing a relatively weak/stubborn player in the hope that they'll run through the town's allowed misvigs through a chain of bad vigs. I suppose if I were scum, I'd personally choose the former, since in the latter case weaker players can still sheep town leaders to the right shot.

Ave, Imperator, morituri te salutant.

[NekoNekoRex]

Ouch. Mafia aside, politics would like to have a word with you. A king with a brain and competent advisors works better about 10 times out of 10.

It only takes one bit of corruption to make a monarchy a terrible thing. Just look at dictatorships. More brains means better chances.

Neko: I suggest reading a few of LLD's games. After you have done that, tell me if it changes your read in any way and why.

>Implying that I should clear some blatantly bad play because meta

Calling bullshit on this, I refuse to play the meta game.

If you had the gun and there were five minutes on the clock, who'd you shoot, based on information you have right now?

Taokaka (LLD)

what would you consider optimal scum play in this setup?

Being subtle, trying to manipulate opinions. "We should" or "You should" are scum phrases in this situation.
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I'll think up some PR related stuff later. No wonder I never do PRs.

[Omba]

Serela needs a big fat bullet in each orifice, eyes and ears included.

Calling bullshit on this, I refuse to play the meta game.

The point is that what might be scummy for some or general players may just be style of play for a specific player. Which is the case here.
Mind, I don't think her play here is specifically scummy anyway, but the meta thing makes your suspicion pretty, well, shit.

As for the optimal play. Conq already stated pretty much what I think. Give the gun to the best player and hope they die quickly seems best to me. Giving it to a bad player is the second choice, but since that has a good chance of weeding out a lot of the derp players and leaving the better ones, it's not as good a choice (when I'm scum, I tend to favor shooting good players so they don't catch me; the second strategy runs counter to this).

[Omba]

For the better players, I'd either shoot Affinity because :gut: or LLD because complete null-read + usually good at finding scum. Not quite sure which.

[I have no name]

Also, how does the conclusion you reached there fit together with your #87?

As you pointed out the comparison doesn't really work.

Eh, I guess I want to see more from IHNN (did anyone ever tell you you're a lazy git? :V It's your job to move past passive scumhunting if you want to improve as a player)

I went to sleep.  As it is I coughed myself awake at 5 in the morning and I'm really tired still.  I take offense to being called lazy, it's that I don't know where to start.  But the answer is definitely not now because 5 hours of sleep.

LLD's attack (and by extension, Nameless') strikes me as rather selective.  It's like that lame attack on the evils of democracy all over again, but America shall live forever so it's alright.  Would like Nameless to answer to this, since he seems to be following LLD's lead; his lame, passive scumhunting is gradually getting to me.

I was asking a question to one of the people who hadn't posted very much.  I don't entirely see how that's passive.

If you had the gun and there were five minutes on the clock, who'd you shoot, based on information you have right now?

Probably rawr.

I don't think I've had everyone state their top target rather plainly. I don't need a "why", I just need a "who". Moreover, what would you consider optimal scum play in this setup? It's a setup question, yes, but I find it a genuinely interesting question to assist in deciding who to shoot.

I'll answer this when I didn't just cough myself awake after 5 hours of sleep.  I think I'd try pushing LaL because a lurker would be less likely to submit the kill in time.  D1 hand the gun to a strong player, hopefully get then to shoot a lurker, lurker doesn't kill (like Bogre in the prior game), hand the gun to a weak player, guide them to misshot, win.  It's pretty flimsy but without a lynch I think it'd be a good starting point for scum play.


This post was brought to you by sleep deprivation.  If any thoughts contained within seem incoherent, that's why.

[Lexicat]

As scum I think I'd either endorse shooting myself as a gambit, to appear like I wanted to gun
 
OR
 
Try and get the gunbearer to shoot people who think I'm town, so I won't get shot.

[ActionDan]

As scum I'd either Bus Early or spread out my suscipions

Still definitely think Serela is the best shot.