Author Topic: Umineko Mafia - Day 4  (Read 69432 times)

Carthrat

  • HITLER OF LURKERS
  • MEIN MAIDENKAMPF
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #270 on: July 20, 2009, 03:17:56 AM »
Yeah I'm not sure how much more obvscum NF needs to be to get lynched. Why are people letting him run away?

I'm not sure about this 'pesco is breadcrumbing into a later fakeclaim' theory. Why would he not, er, have claimed something solid by now if that was his plan from the start, instead of acting as though he has mysterious unknown powers? The day one pressure on NF and generally stringing out his responses are the two voteworthy things I can see from him, and the former no longer looks quite as bad, poor a move as it might be.

Quote from: Nietz
I don't see how Nk'ing and roleblocking the cop would be a likely strategy for scum. Seems a waste of resources, considering that a town-NF would be a prime candidate for lynch after coming up with a "I got blocked".


And yet I find it many times more likely than either possibility that NF presented, and considering the other crazy gambit strategies from the get-go seems laughable. That said, I do believe a no-kill strategy is more likely at this stage, but only because I think NF himself is scum and it's the only way I can reconcile how his posting has developed across the game.

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #271 on: July 20, 2009, 03:50:06 AM »
NF, you said that the amount of knowledge you could get from Mafia excluding dead people (e.g bandwagon analysis), couldn't fit into a thimble.  Your failure to respond to anything I say makes you deserve a lynch, and I'm all for it today.

Still, before the deadline, I would like Zakeri to respond first.

Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #272 on: July 20, 2009, 03:59:29 AM »
this is starting to get a little crazy.

just finished page 8, will catch up and respond asap.

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #273 on: July 20, 2009, 04:25:10 AM »
I'm not sure about this 'pesco is breadcrumbing into a later fakeclaim' theory. Why would he not, er, have claimed something solid by now if that was his plan from the start, instead of acting as though he has mysterious unknown powers?

What better fakeclaim than something which looks unique, but doesn't have any mechanical effect for us to expect from him, or any possible counterclaim?
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #274 on: July 20, 2009, 05:30:29 AM »
@Serp
Quote
If we don't lynch them as soon as it's clear that they'll be a liability, then when do we do it?
That's the idea I'm presenting - when it's apparent that they are going to be a liability. No later, no Sooner.

Whether Nuke was targeted by the nightkill or not makes no difference unless the Doctor claimed to have protected Nuke. even then, unless scum would want to confirm that, we still wouldn't have enough info to go on.

234-
Quote
I don't really like how you distanced away from the donut bandwagon on this sentence alone... so what do you mean by town pressure voting?  donut's pileups on Dorian and NF were a little opportunistic and didn't seem to convey any sense of pressure, after all; it seems a little bit that you wanted to get away from a misguided bandwagon as scum.
Adding another vote onto a bandwagon doesn't constitute pressure voting? It brings people to L-1 faster, which is suppose to make them respond with more haste than usual.

And why do I have to be scum to realize it's a misguided Wagon? I've already noted town and null tells in earlier posts. My real vote for the day would have gone to Serpentarius, except it wouldn't have done anyone any good to start a fresh bandwagon with only half an hour left in the day.

236 - Nuke WiFoMs himself into a corner without providing analysis on who he thinks is scum. Sorry to hear you lost sleep over this.

Quote
There is also a weird trait to his posting that assumes a cop is an inevitable fixture in the game, something I am far more willing to attribute to role-holding scum than town of any stripe, and the way he presents it is just downright unnatural as town in general.
I agree with this. His roleclaim looked more to me like "Well, crap, I'm going to get lynched. Okay, before I go, which one of you is the cop?"

added more to the above by the general weirdness when he realizes that even if the doctor claimed and proved himself and one townie innocent, it would still be a bad idea for the real cop to counterclaim today.

Quote
I do what I do for fun, and nothing more. Mafia is about enjoyment, and I'll play it how I see fit.
you are the Scrub to our Tournaments.
I've seen plenty of places where Mafia is played for fun. I've been to places where days are only 24 hours long. I've been to places where lynchblocking was a common mafia role. I've been to places where townies can revive those who died, role pm intact. I've been to places where the mod is asked to give decipherable clues that if figured out would lead the town to a mafioso that killed whichever townie died last night.

This is not any of those places. Get over it.

Quote
What's even funnier is that you assume I said we only had bandwagon analysis. Now I know your not even reading my posts, thanks affinity.
Then what was all of that you said about how ineffective our scumtells are? I remember you complaining about how town can do all of the things that we considered scumtells, which left only bandwagon analysis. Apparently, the only scum tells that exist for you is whoever is currently voting for you.

Quote
My theory on who scum are - Affinity and Pesco.
Case in point -
Affinity: has been calling your actions anti-town ever since you've been acting anti-town. Obvscum
Pesco: Is voting for you because he believes your merits as a player isn't worth keeping an unconformable roleclaimer alive. Obvscum.

Quote
Oh, and on the subject of replacing me - in case somebody cares to try... I don't think he'll be in any better position, so don't bother.
Off topic, but personally, I'd love to. It'd be my greatest Challenge ever since I dug myself out after replacing Donut. Though, I still could have done a better job surviving.

Kiro's 250 pisses me off. Mostly because it's filled with a decent case against me that any logical scumhunter besides myself should notice and point out.

I neglected to say that I was voting for Pesco to see his reaction. I agreed Nuke was lynchworthy based on his list of crimes, but the point of my vote was that I was less sure. By the time I had wanted to vote Nuke (The point you noted as unconfirmed voting for him) He had already claimed cop and the general consensus was to let him live until day 2.

As for my donut vote, all I can really say was that I believed, and I still believe that voting for donut was my best option at that time. My real answer was that I didn't believe any of Pesco, Dorian, or Donut were scum, yet the only other options I could turn to were all useless (Nuke, Serp, not voting at all, etc.).

My Main vote right now would like to go to Nuke, but I'd like to see a votecount and deadline information before I do. I don't know exactly what to pull from Serp by now though, and I'll relook Pesco again since Neitz and Sodium did provide good points against him.

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #275 on: July 20, 2009, 05:49:43 AM »
Muovo ancora un pezzo sul la scacchiera, ancora un destino aveva decisio.
Tutto ? possibile! Tutto pu? diventare realt?!
Logica pu? risolvere tutto!
La fine di mille annuta incontro del scacchi ? imminente.
Sar? scacco matto per me, o per te? La fate del mondo ? in pericolo, fa tuo mosse subito!


Day 2 Vote Count - 1 Day, 23 Hours remaining
Nucleaire Fusion (3) - Pesco, Carthrat, Serpentarius
Pesco (2) - NEETz, EX NaBrO_3
Zakeri (2) - Affinity, Kiro
Affinity (1) - Nuclear Fusion
NEETz (0) - EX NaBrO_3

Not Voting: Roukanken

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch! Good luck!

(also, the above text is not song lyrics from an existing song in Umineko, but rather something that basically just popped into my head the second I heard mortal stampede, translated into Italian. As I do not know Italian, this may wind up being more like Itarian, I make no claims to the correctness of said text, feel free to PM me with corrections, etc :P)

Edit: it takes skill to post a correct votecount on the previous page, and copypasta it into a wrong one here >_>
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 06:41:27 AM by Alice Margatroid »
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #276 on: July 20, 2009, 06:01:38 AM »
Thanks.

##Vote: Nuclear Fusion

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
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Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #277 on: July 20, 2009, 07:08:26 AM »
Alice: I meant put the vote count here

Can't think of anything decent to post right now. I miss Rou already.

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #278 on: July 20, 2009, 08:19:07 AM »
Serp's #251 answer to my question: Alright. since you did mention that before the following quote:
According to the last votecount, we still have a day left, don't worry.

It might be reasonable enough to conclude that you thought time was running out despite Donut defending Pesco a full 24+ hours before the deadline. Point is neutral.

Pesco's #252 answer to my question: Hrm, I don't know what you are expecting in terms of "special" evidence against you. My impression is that all the votes on you are for general evasiveness. There's no particular incident to pick out because the argument with Rou dragged on through pages. Your pick of Nietz could have been how you felt, but it's not a completely satisfactory answer since it's something you should have thought about with more effort if you're under the threat of being mislynched now that you say it was from a "self-centered defensive position" rather than a "give Town my best judgment if I do eat rope."

I should reread Sodium's posts more. The switching from voting Nietz to Pesco represented a sudden change in opinion and I should look into it more. But he's not a priority for today.

Zakeri: I don't see you mentioning Serpentarius as suspicios in your post with the Donut vote. You do present a bunch of questions for him right after the hammer vote, but it's not like you actually mentioned any intent on voting him. The rest of your answers are more or less what I expected, but this first point about Serp is not convincing. I think your case is still notable and worth keeping in mind.

Re NF:
Also, I'd self vote since you guys clearly want me dead, but I hate people who self vote. So I'm jsut not going to bother posting except after this one.

That's really helpful of you to just roll over and die... only if you're Scum. If you're Town and had even a remote interest in seeing Town win, I feel you'd have more to say to dissuade all these negative comments about you and to catch Scum by the means all Townies have, through open discussion and cases. I failed to notice the above during my last wall, but intentionally not wanting to post is probably the worst you can do and that's the last straw. And whoever your teammates are must be disappointed in you and I'm sure they'll let you know in postgame. You just better not be flipping Town, it'll mean more people have the right to be angry at you. I'll switch my vote here and maybe if he's Town, he'll feel compelled to come back and defend himself.

##Unvote Zakeri
##Vote Nuclear Fusion

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #279 on: July 20, 2009, 08:47:45 AM »
Yeah so like Nucleaire Fusion's at L-1. It seems to be abundantly clear that he is not coming back, too >_>

Since he didn't ask for replacement, I'm not going to forcibly replace him. However, he is still subject to standard inactivity modkill rules, in case anyone is wondering (i.e. another 24 hours and he gets modkilled).
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
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  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #280 on: July 20, 2009, 09:04:01 AM »
Will the modkill be inactivity modkill or punishment modkill?

Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #281 on: July 20, 2009, 09:06:18 AM »
The point I made about voting for Serp makes sense to me. I guess I keep forgetting that I'm the only one that can see into my mind.

I took a quick look at all of the votes and unvotes of donut's bandwagon, and i do agree that my vote looks the scummiest. I hope Pesco doesn't turn out to be scum for my sake.

Next scummiest in my opinion would be Affinity and Dorian, who both supported each other's vote with the same single reason
Quote
Dorian, aside from his seemingly incoherent post, makes a good point.  What I understand from his voting reasons is that you seemed to jump onto the NF bandwagon for a single reason, which was that his 'effort always deserves to get by" was scummy.  How was this different from the 'I overlook long posts because they show effort' thing he said earlier, which you questioned in a rather friendly way?
they both prod Donut, and when Donut never got around to answering the question, the only mention of it is Affinity saying he's still waiting for donut to answer well after it's apparent he missed the question. they essentially left two prod votes on donut. This is also the first two votes after Serp and Neitz's who both unvoted later.

Dorian's vote is also weird in that while his inactivity is the reason he didn't unvote, Sodium put the vote back onto Donut. The only person Sodium actually touches on at the end of the day is Donut

...Rereading what I just wrote, my point against Dorian/Sodium ended up being weak, due to inactivity and being pressed for time as a replacement. Affinity, however, gets no such slack because there's really no excuse for him.

Cut by ARISU: This game ought to be really fun.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
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  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #282 on: July 20, 2009, 09:09:39 AM »
##Extension in the meantime

Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #283 on: July 20, 2009, 09:33:07 AM »
Almost forgot:

Nuclear Fusion - joke vote confirmed by Donut's long reacting post. unvotes because he felt he had more on Dorian than Donut.
neitz - For Trying to attract attention early game. Unvotes because Donut is not master of plan enough to try it as scum.
Serpentarius - Agrees with Neitz. Unvotes to pick on Dorian for not posting often enough.
Dorian [sodum] - For jumping onto the Nuke Wagon to get attention off of him.
Affinity - agreed with Dorian
Kiro - Notes Donut's three tells, votes with belief that donut is scum
Zakeri - tipped the bandwagon towards Donut. Admits to not fully thinking he was scum.
Roukanken - tipped the votes all the way to donut because I switched off pesco.
Carthrat - Hammer for great justice.

basically what I got from my first scan.

Carthrat

  • HITLER OF LURKERS
  • MEIN MAIDENKAMPF
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #284 on: July 20, 2009, 09:38:54 AM »
A reading of the rules seems to indicate NF will be lynched and, if town, the day will end; if scum, the timer resets, effectively skipping a night phase. Correct me if I'm wrong here, circumstances are odd.

So basically I think we should let time run out and see what happens.

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #285 on: July 20, 2009, 10:13:39 AM »
No, it says in the rules that inactivity kills aren't punishment kills, and don't reset the time.  So if Nuke gets modkilled, we can still choose another lynch for this day phase.  As things stand, we have an extra kill to burn without shortening the game by another day.  If we lynch Nuke before the modkill, and the kills from here continue at the standard rate (no blocks or modkills), we'll go into even player LYLO.  If we let Nuke get modkilled and then lynch someone else today, then we'll be on our way to odd player LYLO.  However, if we lynch Nuke before the modkill, and then a kill is blocked, and there are no further modkills or other monkey business, then we've bought ourselves an extra day and go into odd player LYLO.  All of this remains true even if Nuke flips town.  I'm not sure which strategy to take yet, so I'm holding my extension vote.

Also:

Quote from: Zakeri
That's the idea I'm presenting - when it's apparent that they are going to be a liability. No later, no Sooner.

So then we're back to waiting 'till LYLO to lynch lurkers by your philosophy.  Do you really think it's good for town to have to pick between a decent case on one player and a complete lurker about which there is no information at all, with the whole game on the line?  Anything that increases confusion is scummy.

And one more thing:

##Unvote

I don't like leaving anyone at L-1, even my preferred lynch, with more than 24 hours in the day.  I'll be online in the hours before the modkill, if it's the consensus that Nuke ought to be hammered before he can be modkilled.
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #286 on: July 20, 2009, 10:46:07 AM »
@Zakeri:

But he already answered after awhile here.  Furthermore, I don't see how it was apparent that donut wasn't answering at all, and I don't see how it makes me scummy just because I agreed with Dorian.  I also, of course had other reasons for donut's lynch, which have already been said; sudden votes and lack of scumhunting were points already implicit in the discussion.

Quote
Adding another vote onto a bandwagon doesn't constitute pressure voting? It brings people to L-1 faster, which is suppose to make them respond with more haste than usual.

You're missing the point.  Scum can also pressure vote, really, and that vote wasn't convincing as the discussion was already pointing out, which points to scum.  At the very least you could have stated why you found his votes convincing, but you did not.

Quote
My real answer was that I didn't believe any of Pesco, Dorian, or Donut were scum

I don't like this reversal; you said that the only bandwagon you were not happy with was the donut one.  This inconsistency kind of has to be noted, even if you forgot to say that you were 'prodding' pesco.

---

@Sodium:

Quote
Oh, it happened in another game? Well, I guess it's a fair point.

While I liked your questioing of pesco and Nietz, the reason for changing a completely alright case against Nietz is kind of questionable.  Just because it happened in another game does not really mean anything objectively.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
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Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #287 on: July 20, 2009, 11:35:39 AM »
This:

Nietz:
Makes a case on Donut, claiming he wants to attract a bandwagon...thus, starting the Donut bandwagon, somewhat. Now, Donuts bandwagon didn't go anywhere because NF started getting a load of (justified) votes. But still, what the hell?
Abandons Donut vote, using the same reason Pesco would use later; Donut could not possibly pull it off(he's an idiot). Whee! Then hops onto NF's/Pescos wagon. Votes Pesco after NF's copclaim, and then the rest of the day, he tries to help Roukan bury Pesco. I agree with Pesco saying that Nietz was basically following along with Roukan without much originality, which seems opportunistic.
[notserious]Oh yeah, Nietz is always scum. XD[/notserious]

Basically, I'm going to vote Nietz, because NF seems more like completely useless townie cop, and I'd like Pesco to answer my questions before I do anything else.
I did find scum-pesco once with the Preemptive Bandwagon theory (even though town didn't believe me and he stealth-hammered me then), so I thought it could be applied here as well. I did give up on that because wasn't acting like the kind of player that pulls this kind of plot (which is different than pesco saying he's an idiot so it's OK to ignore him).
And while I did agree with Rou's arguments, it's not like just decided to agree with him at one point and call pesco scum. If you look at my Day 1 post you'll see that in almost all of them I'm suspicious of pesco.
Besides, if you believe NF is town, why wouldn't I choose him over pesco? It would have been completely justifiable at that point.

Got answered by this:

@Nietz:
Oh, it happened in another game? Well, I guess it's a fair point.
Alright then.
The only reason I find NF town is because no one counter claimed cop. Even then, he's useless in his current state, as he is being roleblocked apparently, and he's being useless during the day too.

So what exactly is going on in between here?

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #288 on: July 20, 2009, 12:02:28 PM »
@Serp: read the rules :P Inactivity modkills work just as any others do, resetting time to 0 if the person modkilled is Scum, and resetting time to deadline if the person modkilled is Town (and if the player modkilled is third-party, no time reset occurs).
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

Nietz

  • NEETz
  • *
  • Normal Person
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #289 on: July 20, 2009, 01:39:31 PM »
While I liked your questioing of pesco and Nietz, the reason for changing a completely alright case against Nietz is kind of questionable.  Just because it happened in another game does not really mean anything objectively.
While I do like that he dropped the case on me and do approve of pursuing pesco, I have to admit this was a little strange. Especially considering that me basing my theory on previous experience was just a minor part of my answer to him.

@Serp: read the rules :P Inactivity modkills work just as any others do, resetting time to 0 if the person modkilled is Scum, and resetting time to deadline if the person modkilled is Town (and if the player modkilled is third-party, no time reset occurs).
So, as things are, if NF doesn't post soon, the day will end/reset regardless of extension or not?

I don't like the possibility of the day ending without Rou even making a post, but I guess it's up to NF to show up.

Sodium

  • pew pew lasers
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #290 on: July 20, 2009, 01:41:57 PM »
Quote from: Affinity
While I liked your questioing of pesco and Nietz, the reason for changing a completely alright case against Nietz is kind of questionable.  Just because it happened in another game does not really mean anything objectively.
Bah. Got lazy. I meant that it was in another and WORKED. I found it okay because it apparently worked when it was used(unless someone can disprove that or something), not just because he used it in another game. I'd use something that I know worked before to find scum, and that's how Nietz explained himself. =V

@Pesco:
1.Look at what I said on the Affinity Quote
2.The alright then was me deciding to look over his posts again to check if what he said was true. I found it true enough, found it an acceptable answer, and so, stopped pursuing it.
3....Whoops. Misread the question. I thought he was asking why I thought NF was town. =V
...Uh, Nietz. "why wouldn't I choose him(NF) over Pesco?". I believe you were going to use "would".
If you did mean "wouldn't", then what? Explain yourself.
Otherwise, now that I actually understand what you were saying, I can see it was justifiable at that point, because NF wasn't going to get lynched that day, and I'm guessing you didn't want to vote Donut.

Also, Nietz had no actual opinion on Dorian what so ever during Day 1. Why?

The plan is to just let NF get inactivity modkilled right? Fine with me, don't see anything we can really lose. Alice, could we get a timer for that?

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #291 on: July 20, 2009, 07:04:52 PM »
Agh. FINALLY managed to get hold of the internet, but I'm really not going to have a dependable connection until late Thursday. I've only got time to take a quick look at the thread so this is all I'm gonna be able to contribute for a few days.

Pesco is basically saying 'I don't care if you're Town NF, you're useless so we'll lynch you'. It comes out sounding like a scum looking for a cheap excuse to lynch a player like Wrathie, and I don't like it. That in combination with his 'I'm not vanilla but I'm not claiming a role' is enough to seriously irk me.

##Vote: Pesco

I still think this takes precedence over the NF lynch/modkill, because NF is basically the new Wrathie IMO.

I'm going to try reading up on the rest of the thread, but my time is pretty short tbh. I'll do what I can...

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
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  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #292 on: July 20, 2009, 07:08:41 PM »
There's a difference there. Wrathie doesn't give off scum vibes and is actually difficult to force as a mislynch.

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #293 on: July 20, 2009, 07:34:12 PM »
NF looks to me like one of the players from another Mafia forum game I play - more focused on having a laugh than actually playing well. Quite obviously he isn't used to the more forceful and difficult analysis we have over here.
The lack of a cop CC is still enough to make me cautious about lynching him, that's for certain.
If anything, the storming off makes him look more confirmed to me, the sign of a Townie who can't argue for his own sake and is probably verging on distraught. Scum NF would have nothing to gain from storming off in a huff and getting himself modkilled, if you ask me.

Carth's post here seems weird:
Quote
I'm not sure about this 'pesco is breadcrumbing into a later fakeclaim' theory. Why would he not, er, have claimed something solid by now if that was his plan from the start, instead of acting as though he has mysterious unknown powers? The day one pressure on NF and generally stringing out his responses are the two voteworthy things I can see from him, and the former no longer looks quite as bad, poor a move as it might be.
Here's a question, Carth - if Pesco isn't trying to set himself up for a fakeclaim, what the hell is he doing? By saying 'I'm a role but I'm not saying what' he's already painted a target on himself for the Mafia, so there should be no harm in saying exactly what he is. If he was something like Bomb or BP he shouldn't be making any sort of claim at all, surely.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
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  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #294 on: July 20, 2009, 07:44:01 PM »
Wouldn't you say NF has some similarities to me back when I didn't get along with Kilga?

Lack of counterclaiming is a poor excuse for letting someone off the hook. Consider what would happen in my games, any bullshit role claimed will not be counterclaimed because it's pretty well likely that the role is so obscure that no counter exists.

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #295 on: July 20, 2009, 08:06:08 PM »
Did you strut off in a huff and try to get yourself modkilled? I forget.

Also, considering the lack of modkill, I find it hard to believe this game is entirely role-free. At the very least, the Mafia don't think so because either their kill was blocked or they want it to look like the kill was blocked.
Better yet, why would they want to do the latter? The lack of an NK would only be useful if one of the Mafiosi used it to fakeclaim Doc, which hasn't happened. Thus I'm inclined to believe the Mafia honestly did try to kill last night and came up short.

In other news my laptop is dying very quickly, so unless someone replies really soon this'll probably be my last post of the day. Sorry again for the circumstances.

Pesco

  • Trickster Rabbit Tewi
  • *
  • Make a yukkuri and take it easy with me
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #296 on: July 20, 2009, 08:36:51 PM »
I got myself modkilled in YOUR game >_>

Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #297 on: July 20, 2009, 09:50:04 PM »
alright. First of all, ##Unvote: Nuclear Holocaust since the rules state he'll be auto-lynched anyway.

Affinity-
Quote
But he already answered after awhile here.
This does nothing to help against my point. My point was you were letting donut slide in terms of answering.

as for donut's not answering...

Original complaint
147 - Donut clears up an earlier point, doesn't seem to notice your argument
149 - Dorian repeats your argument to clearify that's what he was looking for.
154 (Next page) - piggybacks on serp's vote
158 -
Quote
we still have a day left
162 - donut defends against Kiro. Still no mention of what you posted
164 - Donut again responds with nothing useful.[/s]
165 - damn it. I overlooked the bulk of this post when I made my case on affinity. Alright, I withdraw my case on affinity since it was largely based on what I though was him not presenting any opinions or reasons on the donut bandwagon he was on.

I've been trying to look back on my posts to follow my own train of logic. It's barely there, here's everything I see.

169 - I was starting to shift my focus onto Nuke here, since he couldn't stop from being a huge distraction (Being a distraction from pesco is a big honor, BTW). Ultimately, I was starting to see that Roukanken was victimizing Pesco for what looked like minor points. Specifically, Rou had been operating on Pesco's sudden assumption that Donut was an idiot, and used his initial wording as a contradiction. I admit, it does look weird to me, but it's not really anything to hold up an entire case. I don't think* I was unconditionally rewarding Pesco like Nuke did to Serp. I believe that if a person can explain their thought process with detail, rather than just leave vague comments when asked to explain, then they are making an effort to tell the truth, which can only hurt scum in the long run.

after saying I was entirely unhappy with the donut lynch, I then became entirely unhappy with the Dorian lynch. I realize Dorian had said one or two things that could be read as scummy, but he's also said a few things that could be read as townie. That any the most townie seeming voice going after Dorian seemed to have been operating under the conclusion that "If we do not lynch someone who only posted sporadically for the first half of the first day by the end of the first day, that person will never be lynched, never be modkilled due to inactivity, never ask to be replaced, never do or say anything that would give people the impression that he's townie or scummy, and will be let slip by all the way until lylo where he will be town and we will only then want to lynch him for lurking."

I suppose the bigger contradiction then saying I was entirely unhappy with the donut lynch and then voting donut, was saying that I wasn't planning on making the mistake of protecting Pesco, and then making that same mistake. I still don't understand what it is about Roukanken Vs. Pesco debates that I end up becoming Pesco's Schmuck.
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Hi, Roukan. Glad you could make it for a little while. For the record, I think Dorian is the new Wrathie, and I don't say that just because Dorian had trouble writing in english. If anything, I would compare Nuke to how I play on those forums you're mentioning, except instead of yelling at everyone telling them about how to win the game, he's yelling at everyone telling them about how to lose the game.

Also, I just lost the game.

Still, you do bring up valid points. I would have expected a ScumNuke to have come and explained to everyone that he's scum, forcing us to lynch him and preventing the counter from reseting.

...I think I just realized what it is about Roukanken Vs. Pesco debates that turn me into a Pesco Schmuck  :V

*Note: At least, that's what I would like to say. The more I think about it, the more I realized the Pesco is indeed trying to be vague about things. It would have done Pesco much better to explain what he thought about Donut when he unvoted him, rather than have had it pulled out of him. Even now people are struggling to get Pesco to convey something that looks like information out of him.

as for Pesco's breadcrumbs and such

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I have aspirins and I'm not going to be sharing them. Aspirins are headache tablets if you're not sure what I'm talking about.
He shares them with only himself, which means the pills are for his headaches.
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Natsuhi, wife of Krauss. A jerkass bitch with well-meaning intentions. And I have aspirins for use at night. Aspirins contain salicylic acid and ease headaches, that's all there is to it.
He can prevent headaches. No information of what causes headaches.
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The only confirmation of my role is that I never said I was vanilla.
What this basically means is that Pesco is trying to ellude to a certain role. The key here is that he never said he wasn't Vanilla. I'm lead to believe that his headache medicine does something similar to what my traffic signs did in Real Women of Science.

And yes, I do agree with Roukanken that it's an absolute crappy way of putting yourself up for the nightkill.

Nietz

  • NEETz
  • *
  • Normal Person
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #298 on: July 20, 2009, 10:25:07 PM »
Also, Nietz had no actual opinion on Dorian what so ever during Day 1. Why?
Basically because there there wasn't much of Dorian for most of the day. If anything, I thought of him as a newbie lurker, which his later request for replacement confirmed.

Rou and I seem to be having the exact same thoughts about pesco, as most should have noticed. Also, I'm not much for comparing NF to wrathie, but I'm also hesitant to lynch him because the lack of counterclaim (though apparently he's going to die anyway).

Lack of counterclaiming is a poor excuse for letting someone off the hook. Consider what would happen in my games, any bullshit role claimed will not be counterclaimed because it's pretty well likely that the role is so obscure that no counter exists.
The amount of irony here just went off the scale. Do I have to remind you who claimed a common and easily countered role, and who claimed a bullshit obscure role with no counter here?

Nietz

  • NEETz
  • *
  • Normal Person
Re: Umineko Mafia - Day 2
« Reply #299 on: July 20, 2009, 10:41:44 PM »
@Alice: What happens to NF if we somehow lynch someone else before his modkill?