Vanilla Mafia II (Game over, town wins!)

[BT]

this isn't some kind of test I hope

[Bardiche]

>Shadoweh implying she needs to unvote
Were you specifically holding off on voting today until you could snipe someone, Shadoweh?

[Kitten4u]

Dormio (0):
huh what (2): Omba, Hero999
BT (1): Pesco
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (1): Shadoweh
PX (1): Serela
Hero999 (2): huh what, BT
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (2): Bardiche, Dormio

Not Voting: PX,  JOB

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.  D2 ends in ~51 hours (watch countdown).

[Shadoweh]

>Shadoweh implying she needs to unvote
Were you specifically holding off on voting today until you could snipe someone, Shadoweh?

..It's a habit okay? I forgot I wasn't voting.
I was holding off on voting until I finished playing D&D with UK, actually, so I wouldn't be trying to write paragraphs between Spot checks.

[Pesco]

What, why I'm not voting scum? How do you expect me to answer that ever? Especially when I'm voting people I don't know the alignment of. If you ask a stupid question repeatedly and don't get an answer for it, maybe it's because it's a stupid gotcha question, Pesco. Do you think I'm going to take YOUR word that you're not scum if I vote you? Hey Pesco, why were you voting for Schezo? Your gut was wrong and he wasn't scum. Hey Pesco why were you voting for Dan? He wasn't scum either. OBVIOUSLY SINCE YOU WERE VOTING TWO TOWN YOU MUST BE SCUM AMIRITE?!

The difference between you and me is that I posted a case on why the person I'm voting is scum. You never did that. How convinced were you when you made your vote on me? Not very much if you couldn't bother bringing it to more people's attention. Your voting now is again a weak vote. NeoSerela annoys you, but how is that scummy? Your vote is just going to park on the guy until we need a majority elsewhere.

*What 'caught scum'? The situation wasn't Scum/Neutral -- it was Neutral/Town.
*She wasn't confirmed town, nor was she confirmed scum. All her comment did was make me reconsider my action. I realized there were two more hours (not one), and that I may not be giving PX enough time, so I reconsidered.
*What makes you think he didn't want to defend himself? I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that he's in PST earlier in the thread, so not having a chance to defend himself, rather than choosing not to defend himself, is perfectly possible.

Yes, OK. How does this contradict with what I'm saying? I thought he was slightly scum, then I thought he was slightly town. This post was still in the process of changing my perspective, but yes, my vote was still going to be on Dan at the time. It wasn't after his spree of random posts that I changed my mind.

Who says I was going to question him? As I noted a few times back then, it was really late for me. All I wanted from him is an indication that he's ready to defend himself, then hopefully to see some of this defense and possibly change my mind. I didn't have any questions for him regardless, maybe aside from "why do you post so little" -- he posted so little, I didn't have what to ask about! Let me repeat: he was NEUTRAL. I didn't have any opinion on him. So, when I had a bad opinion on Dan, my vote was on Dan, and when I had a good opinion on Dan, my vote was on PX. This doesn't mean I had anything at all against PX, or anything to ask him about. I was hoping that the people who voted for him originally had the questions, so ultimately, they would be doing the questioning.

Caught scum is a matter of how strongly you believe in the guy being lynched is scum. The choices are to announce no intention to hammer (you don't believe the person to be scum and WILL NOT agree to their lynch) or to announce intention to hammer AND specify that you think the person is scum OR specify that you're only willing to hammer because it's deadline. All three of these options tell everyone exactly what your stance is.

The fact remains that Shadoweh is unconfirmed. Why do you accommodate the request of an unconfirmed player? Why don't you decide for yourself what to do instead of following another player's whim?

I know that PX is unlikely to respond because he's playing DotS. That's the DotS meta of his activity in general. When I know he won't show even if you vote him to death, there is absolutely no point in waiting for him to respond.

Your opinion changed and you never told anyone of that while there was still time. Explaining it in retrospect leaves it an unknown factor.

Leaving the questions to other people is lack of scumhunting. Does it make you look bad to attack someone you can't get a read on? Are you afraid? You don't have questions for PX translates to you have no scumhunting intent on him.

Pesco, there's another thing that bugs me that I didn't mention above. Namely-- what you were doing with me in these last few posts. At first, you fling a dumb case at me. I respond, and you fling yet another case at me. And then you do it AGAIN. If you have something against me, just do it in one big case. There should be no reason for this stupid shenanigan. You're either toying with me, testing me, or just being outright dumb.

And we'll keep responding to each other after every post. The more we post, the more people can get a read on us. Do you consider it noise what we're arguing about? If so, why?

Your big wall of text gets us nowhere because you kinda lack people you're willing to call scum and fight with them about it. Your vote sucks and I called it out before already.

It's always better to vote scum than prod maybes.

[PX]

##Vote Serela

I looked through all your posts and I manged to find no scumhunting, cases, or even reasons why you're voting people other than "Gut! =D" All the reads I can get from you are "This guy is town", and that's not good.

Bigger post coming after class.

Cut by giant wall post what?

[PX]

Oh right, and another interesting thing is that Omba still hasn't posted his opinions of the people he asked everyone to post about. Did everyone forget about that?

[Omba]

I can show you the reasons I've noted so far.
Pesco's isn't in Schezo's posts, it's the grounds of his voteswitch here. Huh what outlined the exact motives I would give Pesco for wanting that kill. I didn't expect someone else to follow the train of thought for that.

Errr... yes, that might be one possible reason, although I think it's a pretty bad one. Now what about all the other possible motives that point in completely other directions?
Using something like that as a reason to look into a certain direction is fine. But actually using it as a reason for a vote is wtf, "gut vote" or not. That you didn't actually go through with that vote doesn't make it better.

Huh what still seems town and I would consider him explaining his nightkill choice to be one of those anti-town mistakes Omba is looking for.

Don't think so. Especially not since you started discussing the NK, so it was already clear you'd be taking the flak for it.

Oh, also. Pesco summing up that post of yours with "waffle" was not mudslinging, but pretty damn fitting.

What, why I'm not voting scum? How do you expect me to answer that ever? Especially when I'm voting people I don't know the alignment of. If you ask a stupid question repeatedly and don't get an answer for it, maybe it's because it's a stupid gotcha question, Pesco. Do you think I'm going to take YOUR word that you're not scum if I vote you? Hey Pesco, why were you voting for Schezo? Your gut was wrong and he wasn't scum. Hey Pesco why were you voting for Dan? He wasn't scum either. OBVIOUSLY SINCE YOU WERE VOTING TWO TOWN YOU MUST BE SCUM AMIRITE?!

Are you intentionally misunderstanding his question here? He's not asking you why the players you vote for don't flip scum. I fail to see how you could even think he meant that, given the question was asked before anyone had flipped. He's asking you why you're not voting for someone you strongly believe to be scum because of :reasons:. That retort of yours is all kinds of horrible.


PX: I guess I got all I could out of that question, so reads on those here:
huh what - well, obvious since I'm voting him right now
Pesco & Bardiche - unchanged so far, which is to say both are still my only town reads; reasonable cases, not afraid to take clear stances
Shadoweh - Is looking increasingly bad. Would lynch if huh what magically died.

[BT]

Caught scum is a matter of how strongly you believe in the guy being lynched is scum. The choices are to announce no intention to hammer (you don't believe the person to be scum and WILL NOT agree to their lynch) or to announce intention to hammer AND specify that you think the person is scum OR specify that you're only willing to hammer because it's deadline. All three of these options tell everyone exactly what your stance is.

So, since I didn't hammer, I didn't think there was 'caught scum'. What's your point?

The fact remains that Shadoweh is unconfirmed. Why do you accommodate the request of an unconfirmed player? Why don't you decide for yourself what to do instead of following another player's whim?

And suddenly respecting an "unconfirmed player"'s wishes is some kind of scummy behavior? You're going to be dealing with "unconfirmed players" for the bulk of the game. Also, I wasn't "accommodating her request", I changed my mind after her request made me re-examine the situation. It's not the request, it's the re-examination.
[/quote]

Your opinion changed and you never told anyone of that while there was still time. Explaining it in retrospect leaves it an unknown factor.

I made a post about wanting PX to be heard before I vote (#292). If this isn't a hint of a possible change of heart, I don't know what is.

Leaving the questions to other people is lack of scumhunting. Does it make you look bad to attack someone you can't get a read on? Are you afraid? You don't have questions for PX translates to you have no scumhunting intent on him.

Didn't I already explain how PX was completely neutral to me? I know I found some credibility for his roll while making the "big wall of text", but back then, he was literally completely neutral. I didn't know exactly what he was doing wrong (aside from not posting), but why does this make me have no 'scumhunting intent'? I did, I just had nowhere to start from. I wanted to see questions asked and answers to those questions so I could establish an opinion on him that way. Obviously, there wasn't going to be any time for me to do that, but that was the original plan.

And we'll keep responding to each other after every post. The more we post, the more people can get a read on us. Do you consider it noise what we're arguing about? If so, why?

If 'noise' translates to something completely unneeded, then no, as people getting a read on us automatically makes it worth something. Explanation accepted.

Your big wall of text gets us nowhere because you kinda lack people you're willing to call scum and fight with them about it. Your vote sucks and I called it out before already.

No. My big wall of text wasn't in order to find and debate against scum, but this is more of a welcome result if it happens. Yes, it did not, so what was the actual purpose of this?

Obviously, to make my thoughts known. That's what people want, isn't it? What I think about players, how much credibility I give to each, who I suspect, who I trust, the works. This wall of text helps people understand where I currently stand, what my thought process is, and who I'm willing to lynch more than others. Ultimately, it allows for people to get a very good read of me, and like you said in this very post, that's something that's worth the time, isn't it?

[BT]

Also, that's very nice of you to completely discredit my vote just because I'm not 100% certain about it. Maybe I'm 99% certain? Maybe I just want to hear more out of him? Maybe this is all just a result of a big gut feeling?

[Shadoweh]

My case is not that Serela annoys me. What the hell. I think he sounds like he knows all the wagons are town, and that's why he didn't want to vote for either of them, then forgot he never had a reason to vote PX when he voted him again today. Does that make more sense to you? It could also make other people look at him and realize yes, he could be scum. You don't mention what you think of him while you're busy deriding my vote. What's your opinion, Overlord Pescorz?

...Uhm, PX, that's really not.. Ugh. Way to make me feel uncomfortable with my vote. Bigger post sooner, please. It's my fault you're alive, you know, I expect you to use your livingness usefully. I will make you talk.

Omba: I listed multiple motives. Why are you quoting me as if I only looked at Pesco? Why do you even say it would be wrong to vote just for that, then say not voting was wrong? You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You don't even comment that I'm voting for someone else. This is suspiciously bad reasoning for attacking me. Stop it.
And his "question" was put forth when I was voting for him. It was really "Why are you voting for me?" which answers itself. The second time was answered by "Because I'll vote when I'm good and ready you damn rabbit".

[BT]

Does that make more sense to you? It could also make other people look at him and realize yes, he could be scum.

Yes, I agree, he could be scum. So? Are there really no better alternatives? There are plenty of possible 'could-be scums' at this stage.

[BT]

Omba, did you read the part of my wall about HW? If not, read it. I want your opinion on it.

For reference:

huh what: About Omba's claim that you "haven't gotten your hands dirty", I... agree. You've had some helpful and calculated posts, but I'm not sure how huge your contribution to the town really is, and like Omba explained, this kind of behavior could easily be explained by being scum. However, this can also have other explanations (like anything else in mafia), and the little posts he did make are posts I can really agree with. Others posts just raise really interesting conclusions. #180 and #205, for example. In the former, he raises a good point about the Omba vs Schezo incident which I fully agree on. In the latter, he raises a good point against the ActionDan wagon. Notice how both of these players were revealed to be town. Why, I ask you,  would scum mitigate rolls against not one but two non-scum? Town.

[Shadoweh]

That's really interesting but what do you think of the actual points I've raised against him?  Your opinion on it isn't as interesting to me as Serela's response. I would hope he returns soon to comment on it rather then letting me add lurking harder then the Godfather from Darker then Black to the list.

[Omba]

Omba: I listed multiple motives. Why are you quoting me as if I only looked at Pesco? Why do you even say it would be wrong to vote just for that, then say not voting was wrong? You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You don't even comment that I'm voting for someone else. This is suspiciously bad reasoning for attacking me. Stop it.
And his "question" was put forth when I was voting for him. It was really "Why are you voting for me?" which answers itself. The second time was answered by "Because I'll vote when I'm good and ready you damn rabbit".

I meant: It's still bad, even if you didn't actually put the vote down with that reasoning. And yes, you named a few other players the kill might implicate. What you didn't explicitly mention is that there's reasonable motives for pretty much all of the players; and considering we've got quite a few new players, we've got even more possible NK motives (all the bad ones). And what does you voting someone now have to do with your reasoning many hours before?
And no, that answer doesn't cut it. He specifically called you out on going for the lolgut vote instead of really pushing a case. That he happened to be the target of your vote does not somehow excuse you from answering the question. No, really, it doesn't. Never.

BT: That question was specifically directed at me? Ok then. Most obvious reason: Defending players later revealed to be town can make the defender look town. And for the Dan thing specifically: In case both Dan and PX are town, scum would have absolutely nothing to lose by defending one of them. They'd still have a town lynch. Moreover, defending town is easier for scum than hunting scum. They already know that whatever the other players are doing is town-motivated (or laziness / ...).
Hence doesn't tell me anything because it's a completely reasonable thing to do both as town and as scum.

[BT]

 

I think he sounds like he knows all the wagons are town, and that's why he didn't want to vote for either of them, then forgot he never had a reason to vote PX when he voted him again today.

Are these (this) your points? If so, that's not a very good point. It's more of a huge "what if" than anything. Yes, he may have not voted because he knew they were town, but what if he didn't vote for them just to not get blamed of bandwagoning? Or because he simply didn't think they were scum? My opinion on this point is "not very good".

I am, however, interested in Serela's response, as I definitely want more content from him.

Omba: I was asking you because I thought my logic was sound, and you were the one leading the lynch on him. And, your reply in fact proves that my logic wasn't that sound. I still find it kind of town-ish that he chose to defend BOTH wagons and not just one of them, as defending one of them and leaving the other for 'insurance' seems like a scum thing. But I guess it's more of a gut feeling than anything else. I don't think I'll be quick to lynch him, at least not right now.

[Shadoweh]

I meant: It's still bad, even if you didn't actually put the vote down with that reasoning. And yes, you named a few other players the kill might implicate. What you didn't explicitly mention is that there's reasonable motives for pretty much all of the players

No there aren't. I refuse to believe this can possibly be true, not compared to the other hands on deck. There are plenty of reasons to push this line of thought as true though. The kill is too strange for the newer players, and I doubt their partner would have let them pick the kill. (Inb4JobxBT team trolls us all.) 
Let me try this again. I'm not voting on nightkill speculation. You're attacking me for suspecting someone based on nightkill speculation. Nevermind that before people started suspecting me it was a town tell to you. And cases aren't nessicary to find scum, even if they're nice. Simplicity is. I get that you think Pesco is town, but that doesn't make him right.

Actually. Can you tell me why you haven't looked back at PX since this happened and just basically said hello when he posted a vote and a BBL? Didn't you think he was scum?

[Bardiche]

Bard: Tried to get a wagon running up on him. Wagon dissapated for little to no reason. Kind of being cleared by people. Who would do a kill that effectively trolls all the players like that instead of killing someone pushing discussion?

Stupid scum?

The worrying thought is that someone thought what he did yesterday would make him obvtown later.

So up till here it's still all WIFOM, and the only reason you think Pesco is scum is because Night Kill Analysis assuming scum!Pesco. Hey, let's do more analysis. Scum!Shadoweh shoots Schezo in the night, then posts a case on Pesco out of the gate by using NK Analysis with what looks like reasonable reasoning on the outside in a game laden with newbies and derps.

About the wagons, uhm.. wow I really said that. Now I'm feeling even more trolled by the kill. I changed my mind, is all I can say. The suspicions on his play looked reasonable and I hadn't actually cleared Dan before that. It does make me feel worse about my choice though. I was worried I was tunneling on an early game read and that the wagon I was on had no basis in reality.

How does the kill have anything to do with your decision to suddenly abandon the PX train and jumping onto the express train to Danlynch? Do you feel there is still no basis for Scum!PX, then?

I'll be blunt. I think your vote looks like a chainsaw by attacking Serela over voting PX (and now attacking Omba for NOT voting PX). Of course without his flip this is USELESS speculation (thanks, Shadoweh, for denying me that flip!), but it's all these things added together that make me think Shadoweh is scum. "I changed my mind" seems an odd way to suddenly go "I haven't gotten a town read on Dan yet!", which moreso looks like scum throwing in throwaway opinions and then forgetting what they've said. How can you honestly forget whether someone looked Town to you or not?

[Bardiche]

Also PX: Who do you think are scum beside Serela? Reads, produce them. Fuxdamnit.

Can't I lynch BOTH Shadoweh and PX?

[Omba]

No there aren't. I refuse to believe this can possibly be true, not compared to the other hands on deck. There are plenty of reasons to push this line of thought as true though. The kill is too strange for the newer players, and I doubt their partner would have let them pick the kill. (Inb4JobxBT team trolls us all.)

... :V
Fun fact: There are plenty of reasons to push this line of thought as well.

Let me try this again. I'm not voting on nightkill speculation. You're attacking me for suspecting someone based on nightkill speculation. Nevermind that before people started suspecting me it was a town tell to you. And cases aren't nessicary to find scum, even if they're nice. Simplicity is. I get that you think Pesco is town, but that doesn't make him right.

My natural gut instinct is to vote Pesco. First, he voted up both the town-flipped now. Secondly, when I ask myself "Who the fuck would nightkill Schezo?" I can clearly see him reasoning that no one wants to vote Schezo anyways and killing him now when it's nebulous. It looks guiltless since Schezo never looked back at Pesco. Hmm. I can see motive for Omba and huh what, and the trail pointing to Hero seems so obvious as to be forged.

Now tell me this doesn't read like X is reason for voting Y. That you add the qualifier that it's just gut doesn't help one bit, you're still using this line of reasoning. Also, I'm not attacking you for suspecting someone based on speculation. I'm attacking you for actually stating that speculation, and specifically in a way that makes it look like it was more than just speculation.
Also, a quick look back will tell you that Pesco already asked me how you gut-voting him is a town-tell. To which I replied that it wasn't, just that the absence of anything like it is a scum tell.
Cases may not be necessary for finding scum, yes. Keine-tan has a chance of 2/11 to catch scum on the first hit. You might have insane mindhax that allow you to instantly spot the scum. W/e. That all doesn't matter since we have no way of knowing whether you're actually town. Finding scum is reason a) for making cases. Reason b) is allowing town to determine whether you're scum.

Actually. Can you tell me why you haven't looked back at PX since this happened and just basically said hello when he posted a vote and a BBL? Didn't you think he was scum?

My read of him changed at the time I changed my vote to Dan. Further re-reads today have told me that all I can really tell from his posts is that he's lazy as all fuck. There's exactly one more thing I could have said in reply to his newest post: "You're a lazy fuck. Post more goddamnit." I'm pretty sure that won't make him spit out more content so I might as well not say it. As it is, he'd be a perfect policy lynch. And I'd rather not waste a lynch on someone that pretty much has a 1:1 chance of flipping either way when there's people actively displaying scum traits around.

--cut by Bard telling PX exactly that.

[PX]

So first, there's Serela's first post. Here, he says he'll go with a Schezo vote, but instead goes vote Bard based on "GUT! =D". Next post isn't much better than a "Don't prod me" and a giant garbled mess of "I don't like these people." And not a thing about his current vote, Bardiche. Next post. "Yeah, that Bardiche thing was just voting for the sake of voting. I never wanted him dead." Uhhh, is nobody else seeing that? "I don't like Dan, but I don't want to vote him. I like PX, post more before I decide if I want to vote you or not. Pesco is scum, but I'm going to unvote and not vote anyone despite saying that I didn't want to do that last post." Combined with his next post, it looks like he's avoiding one town wagon while being on the other wagon, but trying to sound like he's not really on it so when either one flips Town, he'll be in a good spot as not really being on the Town Wagon. His latest post is a defense of huh what, along with a suspicion of me and Hero. I would seriously like to know how you came to this conclusion of Hero, as you haven't so much as put an opinion of him before that post all game, and now he's randomly a top scum suspect?

Shadoweh, I still don't like her. The forcing the lynch on Dan over me makes no sense as Scum, but her actions so far on D2 are just terrible. Trying to indict people based on NK analysis? Really, if you're not pointing it at Pesco and instead saying anyone can do it, then let's just lynched everyone! She's neutral, more scummish. And before you go "Stop copying stuff.", originality on the internet is overrated and pretty damn hard when everybody has covered EVERYTHING about Shadoweh.

The Hero case, I can very easily see, especially after that OMGUS vote on huh what. However, he's giving me a Sid GUT which conflicts with the case, but I can get behind the wagon on logic.

JOB and BT are just what

Pesco reads to me like Town scum. He's green.

Everybody else would be town but I FORGOT ABOUT DORMIO GHISDHBFISD

Okay, after "reading" his posts (The ones that are legible), I like his cases, and they make sense, but he could do with MORE READS. Neutral, townie.

CUT BY TWO PEOPLE GDI THIS POST TOOK A WHILE BETWEEN STUFF

[PX]

Oh right, I forgot this.

I only have one question for him, and it's serious so he should answer. Why didn't you hammer yourself?

Uhhhhh, because I'm scum? Truthfully, I was going to, when suddenly a voice came screaming out to me saying "DO NOT SELF HAMMER. DO NOT GIVE UP" right before I hit post. Probably Kitten/Shadoweh's back from CotA. And are you seriously asking this? -.-

[Shadoweh]

So up till here it's still all WIFOM, and the only reason you think Pesco is scum is because Night Kill Analysis assuming scum!Pesco. Hey, let's do more analysis. Scum!Shadoweh shoots Schezo in the night, then posts a case on Pesco out of the gate by using NK Analysis with what looks like reasonable reasoning on the outside in a game laden with newbies and derps.

Oh no, you've seen through my secret scum mastermind plot, killing someone so I could stunningly speculate on it. How will I never defend against this. This motive is bad and you should feel bad for considering it.

How does the kill have anything to do with your decision to suddenly abandon the PX train and jumping onto the express train to Danlynch? Do you feel there is still no basis for Scum!PX, then?

It seemed like a good idea at the time. I'm indecisive, sue me. The kill doesn't have anything to do with yesterday and I don't know what your point with this is. Yes, a PX scum is still a possibility.  No, you can't lynch both of us at the same time. Incidentally I'm mortally insulted you are putting us on the same level.

I'll be blunt. I think your vote looks like a chainsaw by attacking Serela over voting PX (and now attacking Omba for NOT voting PX). Of course without his flip this is USELESS speculation (thanks, Shadoweh, for denying me that flip!), but it's all these things added together that make me think Shadoweh is scum. "I changed my mind" seems an odd way to suddenly go "I haven't gotten a town read on Dan yet!", which moreso looks like scum throwing in throwaway opinions and then forgetting what they've said. How can you honestly forget whether someone looked Town to you or not?

>.> I feel like I'm letting down some kind of intelligence quota you put in me. I forget alot of things. Towniness doesn't stay at a solid level anyways. I thought I was lynching PX just because my vote is magnetically attracted his face and the other side sounded more reasonable then me, okay? As for the chensaw (a whole new level of wince because it sounds like you're accusing me of being scum with PX and feeling the need to defend him from NEOSERELA), I think it's reasonable to point out differences in opinion regardless of whether they contradict. Serela thought PX was town, Omba thought PX was scum. Serela hasn't come back to answer me. Omba answered pretty quickly with an answer that portrays how I felt about the PX wagon in general. "Let's lynch PX because PX is being PX." Serela hasn't answered because posting is hard, I'm sure. Guess which one I'm still voting?

Oh right, I forgot this.Uhhhhh, because I'm scum? Truthfully, I was going to, when suddenly a voice came screaming out to me saying "DO NOT SELF HAMMER. DO NOT GIVE UP" right before I hit post. Probably Kitten/Shadoweh's back from CotA. And are you seriously asking this? -.-

Flattery will get you everynowhere. It's a serious question. We were starting to look in danger of a Keine-lynch after BT disappeared. I was curious why you didn't offer. Alright, I'll buy your Serela vote now.

Now tell me this doesn't read like X is reason for voting Y. That you add the qualifier that it's just gut doesn't help one bit, you're still using this line of reasoning. Also, I'm not attacking you for suspecting someone based on speculation. I'm attacking you for actually stating that speculation, and specifically in a way that makes it look like it was more than just speculation.

I'll concede this point. I think I misunderstood what you disliked. You are correct that I'd originally included a vote in that post. I think it's more then just speculation. I simply don't think I can convince enough people of my suspicion when I'm not confident enough in my own point to push it.  It's.. probably a bad habit. My faith wavers at the though of possibly mislynching the stronger town.
And yes, yes I know that cases are good. I just think you're accusing me of saying less then I am.

Apparently I should stop being lazy and actually try to find the scum. Can one of you do something really scummy so I can notice you? That would be super.

[J.O.B]

If huhwhat wants a vote, I'll give him a vote. I was trying to decide on who I should vote today and I've pretty much made my decision now.

##Vote PX
I still don't see much improvement here. So I still think he's scum.

[PX]

You... still have yet to say why I'm sum in the first place?

[J.O.B]

I'm pretty sure I've made a case on you already. Besides, don't the opinions shed some light on why I think your scum?

[Pesco]

@BT: Look at the people that everyone has a town read on. Those town reads don't appear to be uncertain of whoever they're attacking. If they are indecisive, they aren't showing it. It's scummy to not show this investment into a stance because of how fluid it lets you be when the wind changes. Now tell us again who you are willing to fight to the death because you believe strongly in them being scum.

My case is not that Serela annoys me. What the hell. I think he sounds like he knows all the wagons are town, and that's why he didn't want to vote for either of them, then forgot he never had a reason to vote PX when he voted him again today. Does that make more sense to you? It could also make other people look at him and realize yes, he could be scum. You don't mention what you think of him while you're busy deriding my vote. What's your opinion, Overlord Pescorz?

ANYWAYS. Dormio, can you ask Google Translate to make your posts today if you're going to be like this? The simple answer to your question is because I have a habit of voting for whoever annoys me the most and I don't know if I'm tunneling on him for being annoying or because he's actually scum. I think my reasoning for why he's town still holds. Your reasoning for not doing anything but posting junk about me doesn't exist. Opinions, we need them to make choices.

If it makes you all feel better, I have found something that irritates me more:

##Unvote
##Vote: Serela

He doesn't annoy you you say? Well you're voting him for irritating you and going by what you say here, it's a knee-jerk vote at that. Why aren't you voting for scum?

My opinion of NeoSerela is that he's a moron. If I were to support his lynch, it would be policy and gets us absolutely nothing.

Apparently I should stop being lazy and actually try to find the scum. Can one of you do something really scummy so I can notice you? That would be super.

Vote yourself. TownShadoweh was never this lazy.

I'm pretty sure I've made a case on you already. Besides, don't the opinions shed some light on why I think your scum?

You most certainly didn't.

Gonna have to drop BT seeing as there's no interest. Shadoweh has been making less sense than drunk-posting Dormio on meds. Active lurking and zero scumhunting on Day 1, making a weak vote and trying to weasel out of being caught for the poor voting reason today, and IMO from above, pushing a policy lynch.

##Unvote BT
##Vote Shadoweh

[Shadoweh]

Let me try actually remembering who is playing this game.

The Townies:
2.) huh what - Trying
3.) BT - Trying
4.) Bardiche - Trying
5.) Omba - Trying
6.) Pesco - Trying Jerk

I think we should stop fighting with each other as of now. We're bombarding everyone that's speaking and the lurkers are slipping through the cracks. The more we sort through the people not talking, the more we can hear what the speakers are actually saying, and no matter how many times I stare are you with suspicion I just keep seeing something obviously town. My order of towniness here is Omba > Bardiche > BT > huh what > Pesco. I just can't stand Pesco's posts and I don't know why. I'm getting a bit of a lurker vibe from huh what. BT just has the newbie trying spirit. Bard is being himself and Omba is The Townest.

The ITP:
13.) Shadoweh - It's funny when you lynch me as scum. It's mean but understandable when you lynch me as third party. But I will throw a fit if I end up as a town mislynch. I can't even defend myself properly from some of your accusations due to how mindblastingly silly they are, especially if they center around "OMG SHADOWEH DID SOMETHING FOR A BUNCH OF ATTENTION INSTEAD OF MISLYNCHING PX/RIDING PX INTO THE SUNSET, SHE MUST BE SCUM! OMG SHADOWEH IS DOING SPECULATION EVERYONE HATES, OBVIOUSLY SHE MUST BE SCUM NOT WANTING TO HELP US MISLYNCH TOWNIES!"
Me: That's stupid. Shadoweh would never do that as scum.
Town: THAT'S WIFOM OMG SCUM LOGIC.
Me: No it isn't. It's logic. Why would I want to-
Town: WIFOM WIFOM MORE WIFOM VOTE SHADOWEH
Me: ...Kitten can I replace out?

The Scummies:
1.) Dormio - ..You actually added the Whee. You cheeky little.. okay. Here is Dormio's reasoning for the Dan vote. It is because 'what Pesco said', because he dislikes him saying the two towny people are town, and because of a possible false dicot.. dic.. a false situation where one town flip implicates the other. That's not what Dan did though. Saying if one is scum the other is town possibly clears the other. It doesn't mean if one is town the other is scum. The rest of Dan's posts are blatantly ignored as 'loldefending'. About the only other thing he said yesterday was that I looked townish. Obviously not anymore. He might even have a case if not for the mistyped garbage.

 I'm getting tired of tearing apart these loaded cases against me, but I don't think I addressed the 'wanted to switch between both wagons' thing. I was already on one of the wagons. It was less then an hour before lynchytimes. As scum I didn't have a reason to suddenly care which wagon I was on, especially if I intended to be on one of them. So yeah. You're about due for a prod too. Less drunken tunneling. More actually looking for scum.

11.) Hero999 - Well apparently other people think he's scum. I think I want more reads from him specifically on the people he's questioned in the past. JOB, BT, Pesco.. and pretty much other then one question each everything else was addressed to Schezo and Dan. Hmm. He does read more like tunneling town to me.

10.) PX - Uhm.. I think the most scummy thing he's done was this post. This is the one 20 minutes before lynch when it sounds like he thinks there's no one else here. How is it not giving up to curl into a ball and die?

12.) JOB - I'm not sure I feel like he's trying. I mean, he doesn't feel like he has that go ahead townie spirit. He did actually make a case on PX earlier now that I look through his posts, so I'm less ready to punch him for the PX vote. I do question why he felt the need to say he was voting just because huh what wanted him to.

8.) Serela - I already looked at this one. >8(

I started this post three hours ago ;-; Why can't I think in a consice manner? It worries me how the most likely team I'm casting here is Dormio X NeoSerela. My order of dislike here so far is Serela < Dormio < JOB < PX < Hero.

I would yell some more at Pesco but I need to sleep, so this is what you get.

[PX]

I saw your scummy behaviour but I wanted to wait to see if you would do something scummy again, before being sure of it. What you did was scummy. You voted Schezo for what I assume was to pressure him for lurking and you didn't even give a real reason other than that. Then later on you vote Shadoweh for only one reason that's your own (IIRC) and about 2-3 reasons taken from other people (one person being me suspecting her for throwing around WIFOM). Then later on you vote Action Dan for OMGUS, which it turns out actually was supposed to join with a whole other case. Stop taking from others, and make your own cases. If you can find another thing bad with Dan then that would be good.

Go find your own damn original reasons. How the fuck does make me scum. If I come up with my own conclusions on someone and someone else already said that, how does that ruins the validity of my opinions?

Cut by Pesco

[Pesco]

My order of dislike here so far is Serela < Dormio < JOB < PX < Hero.

I like how they're all people you could push a lynch onto without much effort.