Vanilla Mafia II (Game over, town wins!)

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

... That NK analysis looks pretty forced, given that I was actually calling Schezo as the NK. <___< I would have done the same thing.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

To elaborate, virtually everyone seemed to have cleared Schezo or at least considered him to lean townie after his wagon died out. Given that he wasn't on the flipped town wagon either, he probably would not have been a possible mislynch any time soon. Scum would most likely want to focus on offing the people they can't lynch due to the set-up.

[Kitten4u]

Dormio (0):
huh what (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):
Omba (0):
Pesco (0):
Serela (0):
PX (0):
Hero999 (1): huh what
JOB (0):
Shadoweh (0):

Not Voting: BT, Hero999, Dormio, Pesco, PX, Omba, Shadoweh,  JOB, Bardiche, Serela

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch.  D2 ends in ~69 hours (watch countdown).

[Shadoweh]

I on the other hand, am incredibly shocked all of Omba, Pesco and Bardiche lived. I'm not surprised at my own state of living being. You should take more pride and look at it from this angle. Who out there considers YOU less of a threat then SCHEZO the guy who was a scum wagon for one post?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Assuming that all three are town, Omba and Pesco were on the flipped townie wagon, and Omba was IMO already lynchable on D1. Bard... actually, I don't know. <_< Maybe he's just scum.

Honestly, I'm not gaining much out of NK analysis at all. Not stopping other people from using it (though I do agree with K4U's quote comparing NK anal and wikipedia) but I think Schezo was a fairly obvious kill.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

K4U's quote comparing NK anal and wikipedia

*possibly misattributed

[ActionDan]

WIFOM and WIKI!

BAH!

CHESS!!!

GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO Town!

[Bardiche]

##HAMMER: PX
##Vote: PX

I STILL want you to produce content.

Good morning, and I see I wake up to NIGHTKILL ANALYSIS (lol NK anal, Huh Whatty, you card) and Shadoweh suggesting that all of us being alive would be indicative of one of us being scum. Which is a fantastic strategy except scum could reason the same way and keep us alive PRECISELY because people'd reason the smarter people stay alive.

In short it's WIFOM and I can't believe Shadoweh is once again invoking WIFOM as some sort of strategy.

What the hell, Shadoweh?

[Shadoweh]

You know, I never understood the concept of WIFOM. More specifically, the wine in front of me is a fallacy because it didn't matter which glass was chosen. They were both poison. He had to look at the bigger picture to realize he shouldn't think about the WIFOM too hard.

[J.O.B]

I'm back and I'm ready to roll. During the night I did a reread of everyone that's still alive. I would post the reads now but Omba not providing his reads first worry me. I too think you should post your reads on them. Then I will post mine.
Also.

NK anal

This made me lol so much.

Oh and my reads were made in notepad so if the formating is lolfail then :dealwithit:
And the reads aren't heavily detailed either, just pointing out my general thought of them and not being hugely specific.

[Omba]

I would post the reads now but Omba not providing his reads first worry me. I too think you should post your reads on them. Then I will post mine.

So you have your reads already written out, but want me to post mine first. What difference does me specifically asking for some of them make when you had already planned to post them anyway?

[Bardiche]

You know, I never understood the concept of WIFOM. More specifically, the wine in front of me is a fallacy because it didn't matter which glass was chosen. They were both poison. He had to look at the bigger picture to realize he shouldn't think about the WIFOM too hard.

It's because you can argue either way, and one could argue scum!Shadoweh specifically left those alive so she can pull this argument out now.

Retort?

[J.O.B]

So you have your reads already written out, but want me to post mine first. What difference does me specifically asking for some of them make when you had already planned to post them anyway?

I want to make sure your opinions are original first. Mine are already done so I shouldn't have to change anything.

[Shadoweh]

The difference, my dear Bardiche, is that in this case there is a motive that is true, and findable if we look hard enough. You can always argue either way. Arguments can be examined and realized for how weak they are. For example, "Because scum would WANT you to think that!" is the usual dumb answer. NK anal is illegal, why bother rigging them? Don't actually answer that. My point is we should stop dismissing weird occurences.

JOB, dude, Omba isn't going to steal your reads. We'd appreciate it if you told us what you were maybe thinking so we could hit our heads on the table faster.

[J.O.B]

Okay then, I'll post them.
Just remember that this was not supposed to be too in detail, and that it was written before Schezo died.

"Pesco: I think Pesco is very good at getting the point across with little amounts of words. The only information he hasn't given town so far is his Mindhax results (unless he already said them). I think he's town.

PX: PX hasn't said much of use in this game. He has been taking reasons from other people and hasn't even said much at all. I would really like to see an original case on someone today. I think he could very well be scum.

Huhwhat: Huhwhat looks soo town to me. Good, original content, and a good amount of posts. Like Shadoweh said, it's almost impossible to see him as scum. Town.

Omba: I'm not too sure with Omba now. That argument with Schezo seemed to be more in favor of Schezo than Omba (based on towniness), but he is looking more town to me now. He is certainly posting a lot of content, a lot of it is his own too. Currently my main suspicion of him consists of gut. Leaning town with gut read of scum.

Bardiche: I'm still slightly weary of Bardiche. But other than a gut read, I've got nothing on him. Looking very town and is full of content, which is original too. Town with a slight scum gut read.

BT: I am really not sure what to think of BT. A lot of his posts make me go psyduck.jpg. That's probably the newbieness at work there. He is seems so confused at some points, and him not putting his vote down before he went was scummy but still understandable. Because that would've lynched PX. Rereading him makes my brain hurt. Neutral.

NeoSerela: Serela could really do with some more posts. Luckily the ones already there have a lot of content. Serela was being a bit derpy at the start of the game, but I would say the only bad thing they really did was leaving their vote out in the open (especially after saying they didn't do it earlier because it would be suspicious). Leaning town.

Hero999 (because Hero is catchier than Villian): I've already said why I suspect him. The reason being a whole lotta parroting. As said earlier, this isn't much to go on by itself, but he's basically the only good scum read I have other than PX. The reason why Hero parroting a large amount means his scum, is because he's basically said nothing else of value throughout the game. And suspecting someone only because of meta is stupid and is a highly scummy thing to do. Definitely leaning scum.

Dormio: Hasn't said much at all, though being busy excuses him from that, I do hope you post more from now on. I need more posts to really determine what I think. He has made some content within the small amount of posts he has made, but I don't think it's enough to go by. Neutral."

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I'm going to solely NK obvious mislynch targets next time I roll scum. It'll be awesome.

Also, there shouldn't be such a hassle over posting reads on other players in the first place. <_< It should just be something you do at the start of the day automatically assuming there aren't more important matters to attend to (which there aren't in this case as far as I'm aware). Blargh. Requiring significant prodding to post opinions is for scum and I still have no idea why Omba needs people to comment on the "Townie Voting Block" -Shadoweh before he talks.

[J.O.B]

I was suspicious of Omba because he is my strongest gut read. So it's natural for me to be suspicious of him (because why wouldn't you be suspicious of someone you think is scum).
If it was someone else I probably wouldn't have had a problem posting them. Except with that reread of Hero, which I said I was planning to do today because low content makes me unable to get a really good read on him and I didn't want to vote him that day either, because I was already voting PX..

[Omba]

Asking for reads because of :reasons:. Anyway.

##Vote huh what

I did a quick iso re-read of all the players on that little list of mine just now and surprise. He's the only one who so far managed to elegantly avoid getting his hands dirty one way or another.

[Pesco]

How would you feel about a Schezo lynch?

If I would be willing to "put my gut on something", it'd be on one of ActionDan or Schezo, so I have no problem changing my vote to the other. There's still plenty of time left though, no need to push for majority this early.

##Vote BT

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Asking for reads because of :reasons:. Anyway.

##Vote huh what

I did a quick iso re-read of all the players on that little list of mine just now and surprise. He's the only one who so far managed to elegantly avoid getting his hands dirty one way or another.

So why am I scum? Furthermore, why are you choosing only to scumhunt within a select group of players?

[Pesco]

Nice load of active lurking by SHadoweh and zero scumhunting. Stick down a vote for us won't you? And you still haven't answered the question I asked you yesterday.

How about you tell me why you're not voting for scum?

[BT]

Pesco: Really? Is that really what you'd call an excuse to vote me? I'm not the only one who had that opinion at that point (I'm pretty sure you were one of them, too). Not only that, but this kind of thing isn't something to warrant a lynch in the first place.


I share the same concern shown in huh what's post (the one before this one). As much as it's also a good way to start the day, it's also kind of weird. Why stay within the same pool of players? It's like saying "hey, I know for sure we were on track last time so let's just stay on these people because obviously some of them are scum".

[Omba]

So why am I scum? Furthermore, why are you choosing only to scumhunt within a select group of players?

Because you read like a good player, but not like a specifically town player. Unless you have a power role, these two should generally directly correlate. And in this set-up, I know for a fact that you have no power role that would warrant a different way of playing (to avoid getting NK'ed etc.). I haven't seen you show disregard for appearances. In other games, I'd call out the narrow focus each of the players on the list including myself have shown as scummy. But since this tell obviously doesn't work so far in this game, I've looked one step further and there, only you still fit. Hence scum.
Examples of what I'm missing from you: Shadoweh went 'gut vote Pesco', Pesco did whatever he could to get the ActionDan wagon to majority, Bardiche similarly worked for the PX wagon and I beat people with a big stick to get ActionDan lynched in the end.
I'm not looking only at this specific group of players. But I'm generally dissatisfied with the other cases that could be built from what content we have so far. We have a lot of players that produce enough shit to last us way beyond LyLo if we continue like we have.

[Pesco]

Yeah, I'm leaving. For the people that really wanted to see my vote, it's too bad, since now I can't cast it. I made my opinion clear, though, which should be enough at this stage.

Not good enough. You should have been ready to post what you had irrespective of whether or not PX came around again.

You didn't care either way on a Schezo/Dan choice. Then at the end of the day between Dan and PX you ditched posting more information than to let town know exactly what you thought.

[Pesco]

How is Shadoweh going 'gut vote <player>' a pro-town thing?

[Omba]

How is Shadoweh going 'gut vote <player>' a pro-town thing?

It might be (if she actually went with her gut like she said and thought it might lead to finding scum). It might also be scum motivated. The relevant part is that it's something that she could get attacked for and more importantly, something that she most likely knew she could be attacked for when she decided to post it and still went ahead with it.
I.e., I'm not saying it is an indication of her being town. But an absence of things like this is an indication of being scum.

[BT]

So you base my lynch off of a stupid reason, then find a (slightly related but) different reason when you realize that won't work? Ok.

I believe I told the town as much about my 'thoughts' as I could muster. I've never had to deal with scum-hunting like this before, so saying I'm "lost" is kind of an understatement. Despite this, I tried making an opinion, and this ended up being, consequentially, mostly based on others' posts.

Maybe a little explanation on my play-style so far is in order. At first I was wary of Schezo and ActionDan, because that seemed to be the consensus (yes, I know how terrible this is, no need to say anything). Then, to try and produce my own opinion without knowing how to properly scum-hunt, I tried finding inconsistencies and basing stuff off of logic. As a result, I had less INFO to post and more opinions. I'm not holding back from posting info, it's just that I don't have any in the first place. Call this scummy all you want, but it's the truth.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

RE: Omba: You fail to consider the possibility I might not be making risky moves that will get me attacked because I have no pro-town reason to take risky moves that will get me attacked. <_< Do you expect me to go out of my way to make myself a potential target just so that people with weird logic will think I'm town? Townies aren't going to try to make polarizing moves if they aren't put in a situation where they feel that the move they are making is benificial to the town overall, and I have not yet been put in one of those situations. You seem to be voting me over a null tell and possibly even just because my playstyle isn't notably aggressive. Bleh.

[Bardiche]

The difference, my dear Bardiche, is that in this case there is a motive that is true, and findable if we look hard enough. You can always argue either way. Arguments can be examined and realized for how weak they are. For example, "Because scum would WANT you to think that!" is the usual dumb answer. NK anal is illegal, why bother rigging them? Don't actually answer that. My point is we should stop dismissing weird occurences.

I read this a few times to try and understand. I've failed. So long as you understand I'm unwilling to vote anyone based off of purely WIFOM reasoning like you employ, and that I'll be combing through your posts shortly to see if I should even excuse your attempts now to push WIFOM in a game heavy on newbies. Because I don't like it, not a bit.

Now you say that in this case there is a motive that is both (a) true and (b) findable if we look hard enough. Given you believe in this theory of yours, why not commence the search for the reason so we can all follow your line of thought other than "GUT!", because I think "GUT!" is being thrown around so much this game it becomes difficult to understand who are bandwagon hopping and who really just don't have reasons other than a warm fuzzy feeling somewhere between the pelvis and tummy button.

I'll admit I'm somewhat miffed I didn't get my PX lynch yesterday after you were the one talking about voting the real lurker instead of trying to lynch the fake lurker, and speculating that Dan is green. You later backpedal to state that you haven't gotten a Town feeling from Dan yet. Which is it now? Looks like a convenient bandwagon hop to me. Yeah no, you're gonna have to explain this in a satisfying way, missy.

##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh

Bardiche: I'm still slightly weary of Bardiche. But other than a gut read, I've got nothing on him. Looking very town and is full of content, which is original too. Town with a slight scum gut read.

ヽ(；▽；)ノ Amazing.

Why is Shadoweh absent from your list?

JOB: I am really not sure what to think of JOB. A lot of his posts make me go psyduck.jpg. That's probably the newbieness at work there. He is seems so confused at some points. Rereading him makes my brain hurt. Probably Town: I haven't seen scum throwing in the towel yet.

[J.O.B]

Why is Shadoweh absent from your list?

Fuck I must've forgotten her. I'll reread her now.