Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: Raikaria on January 09, 2014, 10:55:36 PM

Title: Urist Fortress Mafia - Night 3
Post by: Raikaria on January 09, 2014, 10:55:36 PM
WELCOME TO URIST FORTRESS

Death is a usual occurance at such places. One wonders why Dwarves even go into fortresses with the inevitable chaos that ensues. However; the recent string of deaths has been most worrying.

You see; Dwarves usually engineer their own deaths in the fortress; but inruders is a stain upon the entire fact that this is a FORTRESS. The Urists therefor agree to stop working on their construction project that may or may not flood the entire fortress in magma; and ferret out the intruders.

Of course; you'd think they'd be good at detecting goblins dressing like Dorfs. But Dorfs are dumb and smelly and dirty anyway so can't tell the difference. All a Goblin has to do to pass as a Dorf is grow a beard.

Rules:
1: I am the Moderator; and as such; my word is final. BBM is the Co-Moderator on request. Looking for loopholes in the rules will be punished.
2: No outside contact; this includes hydras
3: Do not post in the game thread unless you are part of it
4: Do not directly quote communications with the moderator unless given permission. This includes the role PM
5: Going 24 hours without posting in a meaningful fashion will put you on the ?On Break? list and earn you a prod. Going 48 hours will result in being dumped into magma; and a replacement Dwarf found if possible [Replacement/Modkill]. Note that consistent prods may earn a replace/modkill without 48 hours passing. Prod Dodges are not acceptable except with good reason.
6: No screenshots
7: No edits.
8: Flavor is delicious and thus you should eat it yourself and not share it with anyone. This includes character names. You?re all Urist.
9: If you are modkilled you lose regardless of the game outcome. If for whatever reason it is a tactical modkill your allies will also be punished based on the severity.
10: Play to win
11: Keep it civil. No personal insults or whatever.
12: Hammer = Shut Up. No speaking at night.
13: Send PM's to both me and BBM with actions

Set-Up Information:
-   Day phases will be 72 hours long; while night phases are 24 hours long. Majority is required to lynch. You may No-Lynch once. Failure to lynch again results in the miners; having no lynching to do; breeching a hollow Adamantine vein and the Circus wins. [You all lose. I win if the Circus wins.]
-   Flips will contain everything. Name; role; alignment; powers. Flips can always be trusted.
-   LYLO and MYLO will be announced. Potential will not be.
-   There are no ties. Win priority is 3rd Party > Mafia > Town; should 3rd parties exist.
-   This set up is not bastard. In addition; the following roles are confirmed to not be included:
Jester/Fool/Variants
Lyncher/Variants
Captain Planet or any role that leaves the game upon victory
Lying Flips
Cops that are not sane
Alignment changes
Roles relying on RNG

Still Alive:
Players:
1: Serela
2: SB
3: Cheez8
7: CF7
10: Darkninjaabc
11: NNR Dorian
12: Conqueror


Thrown into a Fire
6: Dormio - Urist McCatLady
13: Actiondan - Urist McSherrif
4: Sky_Paladin - Urist McHammerer
9: Zakeri - UristMc GreenSpearman
5: O4rfish - Urist McHunter
8: Shadoweh - Urist Mc Not Urist

Important Votecount Links and Stuff
Day 1 End (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061665.html#msg1061665)
End of N1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061861.html#msg1061861)
End of D2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1062937.html#msg1062937)
End of N2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1063183.html#msg1063183)
End of D3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1063738.html#msg1063738)

Extra: -Kill Resolution works in the same priority as win resolution
Title: Re: Urist Forress Mafia - PreGame
Post by: Raikaria on January 09, 2014, 10:56:26 PM
Role PM's are being sent; please wait warmly. Confirmations will start when I post again saying all PM's are sent. Feel free to be silly until then.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - PreGame
Post by: Raikaria on January 09, 2014, 11:14:47 PM
Role PM's sent; Confirmation Phase Begins. Please PM me and BBM if you have any questions about the PM.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: Conqueror on January 09, 2014, 11:23:17 PM
Look at how silly I'm being.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: Cheez8 on January 09, 2014, 11:29:53 PM
The Urists therefor agree to stop working on their construction project that may or may not flood the entire fortress in magma; and ferret out the intruders.
B-but I ~love~ magma floods!

...Fine... confirming. SIGH
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: O4rfish on January 09, 2014, 11:33:34 PM
Urist McCarpfodder reporting for duty sir.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: Raikaria on January 09, 2014, 11:34:55 PM
Dwarves do not exactly have good logic. They'll mine the ground out all around them and then fall 500 feet if you let them. I mean if they plan to suicide anyway they may as well take the Not-Dorfs with them. But UristMcMagma cancels 'Flood Fortress in Magma': Scared of Not-Dorfs.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 09, 2014, 11:36:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwhVFKzA72Q
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: DNAbc on January 09, 2014, 11:41:20 PM
confffffffffirm bleaker
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: SB on January 09, 2014, 11:41:48 PM
conform
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: NekoNekoRex on January 09, 2014, 11:59:42 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/ZFJqHat.png)

IT BEGINS
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 10, 2014, 12:15:51 AM
/confirm~~
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: Serela on January 10, 2014, 12:51:25 AM
confirm`
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: Shadoweh on January 10, 2014, 01:02:28 AM
Mconfirmed
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: ActionDan on January 10, 2014, 03:23:17 AM
confirmed.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: ActionDan on January 10, 2014, 04:48:16 AM
bold confirmed players if possible
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: BigBangMeteor on January 10, 2014, 05:12:22 AM
I believe only Zak and CF7 have yet to confirm.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: CF7 on January 10, 2014, 06:56:10 AM
/confirm
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: Raikaria on January 10, 2014, 11:31:22 AM
Eh we're only waiting on Zakeri; it's good enough.

Votecount of the First Barrel of Booze
Dormio (1): Fortress Populous

Not Voting:  Everyone

With 13 in the game it takes 8 to lynch.

You have roughly 72 hours left in Day 1:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140113T1130&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: CF7 on January 10, 2014, 11:46:09 AM
Well, in that case #Vote Sky_Paladin.
There can be only one.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: Shadoweh on January 10, 2014, 12:16:16 PM
##Vote CF7
APPEAL TO AUTHORITY!
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: CF7 on January 10, 2014, 12:35:53 PM
There's no authority in this fort. Only madness.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Confirmations
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 10, 2014, 01:18:15 PM
##vote CF7 obligatory Sky OMGUS may as well get it out of the way now.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 10, 2014, 01:51:20 PM
##Vote: CF7 due to meta on Sky.

Leave Patrol duty to me~
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 10, 2014, 02:18:55 PM
nice outfit Sera

##Vote: Dormio

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 10, 2014, 02:38:35 PM
##Vote: Conq

Every time I read "Conq" I keep turning it into "Conquistador" for some reason and that bothers me
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 10, 2014, 02:38:59 PM
#Vote: zakeri

from my obsevations. zakeri is scum 90 percent when he rvs wagon sheep

because scum meta nobody verifies.

obv i meant that scarastically.

so yeah.
##:unvote

##:Vote: sky paladin

because 100 percent of a time, sky is scum when hes retardedly confident on anything without big crossreferencing walls of quotes
on motk anyway
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 10, 2014, 02:52:03 PM
##Vote Shadoweh

I don't think I need to say anything more.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 10, 2014, 02:53:04 PM
##Vote Darkie
2manywords
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 10, 2014, 03:07:44 PM
Votecount of the Bronze Sword

Dormio (2): Fortress Populous, ActionDan
Sky_Paladin (2): CF7; Darkninjaabc
CF7 (3): Shadoweh; Sky_Paladin; Zakeri;
Conq (1): Cheez8
Shadoweh (1): Dormio
Darkninjaabc (1): Serela

Not Voting (4): Conq; NNR; SB; O4rfish

With 13 in the game it takes 8 to lynch

You have roughly 69.5 hours remaining
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140113T1130&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 10, 2014, 03:08:47 PM
so dormio is hated?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 10, 2014, 03:34:31 PM
Hm... Curiuous.
##Unvote
##Vote Darkninjaabc

Because. Too serious.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 10, 2014, 03:50:14 PM
##Unvote
##vote SB
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: O4rfish on January 10, 2014, 04:03:26 PM
So much voting right off the bat.Too many nobles in this fort.

I need alcohol to get through the day.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 10, 2014, 04:06:30 PM
so dormio is hated?
It's an anonymous vote as far as I can tell (which is fairly different). Apart from observing it, though, there's no use talking about it for a pretty long time (It's specifics could be practically anything, from anyone, at this point)

anyway off to get ready for work~
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 10, 2014, 04:09:22 PM
Oh, I didn't get an alert for that post. @O4rfish:The game usually starts by everyone voting everyone else for more or less no reason at all, and somehow it coalesces into a vaguely reasonable debate within 24 hours or so as the "reasons" gradually get slightly less insubstantial until, finally, they start to actually kind of mean something.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 10, 2014, 04:13:04 PM
##Unvote
##Vote: Darkie


...Kinda seems to me like Dormio's hated, seeing as that vote was there as soon as the confirmation phase was over. If this is an anonymous vote, somebody cast it pretty darn early.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 10, 2014, 07:05:17 PM
##Vote: ActionDan[/s]

oh my god you suck
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 10, 2014, 07:09:02 PM
posting correctly is hard
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 10, 2014, 07:40:21 PM

##Vote: NNR
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 10, 2014, 07:58:01 PM
Maybe Fortresss Populus is a secret player? (or it's Dan which'll become obvious in next votecount or not)
Dormio is obvDormio of course, what did I do to you this time you son of an Urist?

Dark, I was about to ask you if you were being serious, but that's more meta no one verifies isn't it >_>
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 10, 2014, 08:08:38 PM
Votecount of the Flimsy Elvish Wooden Dagger

Dormio (1): Fortress Populous
Sky_Paladin (1):  Darkninjaabc
CF7 (3): Shadoweh; Sky_Paladin; Zakeri;
Shadoweh (1): Dormio
Darkninjaabc (3): Serela; CF7; Cheez8
SB (1): ActionDan
ActionDan (1): SB
NNR (1): Conq


Not Voting (2): NNR; O4rfish

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140113T1130&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 10, 2014, 08:53:36 PM
This shit is boring.

##Unvote
##Vote Serela

Clearly coaching a newer player to appeal to a sense of loyalty and obligation so that they're more hesitant to vote him in the future.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 10, 2014, 08:54:11 PM
This Fortress Populous guy seems nice, let's lynch him.
...assuming he's scum of course.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 10, 2014, 08:56:39 PM
Darkninjaabc (1): Serela; CF7; Cheez8
Is that just a typo?

Rai Edit: Yes.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 10, 2014, 09:53:40 PM
##Unvote
##Vote: Cheez8


Cheez, how would you describe your scum game?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: NekoNekoRex on January 10, 2014, 10:02:16 PM
##Vote: Darkie (policy vote)

Bah, can't be arsed to scratch my beard hairs with all this fancy thinkin' and socializin', when there's stuff to build and mines to dig. I'll be down below if anyone needs me.
(in other words I'll be busy toll tonight)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 10, 2014, 10:13:02 PM
##Unvote
##Vote: Cheez8


Cheez, how would you describe your scum game?
I guess I'm generally paranoid about my actions? Honestly I don't really know since I only have one good example to judge myself from- all the others happened two years ago, in a community with a completely different playstyle to boot.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 10, 2014, 10:16:20 PM
What about taking into account your scum game a few games ago on this board? (I didn't read it, that's why I'm asking you.)

I know this line of inquiry is a little weird, so just bear with me here.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 10, 2014, 10:39:01 PM
Actually, I'm already taking that into account. That was the one good example I mentioned.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 10, 2014, 11:14:46 PM
##Unvote
##Vote Shadoweh
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 11, 2014, 12:43:15 AM
##Unvote ##Vote Fortress Populous

just checking
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 11, 2014, 01:09:54 AM
No idea why people are even contemplating a secret player given how long it took for signups to fill up. :V

Seeing as the vote was there before the day even started I see it as part of someone's role ability.

##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 11, 2014, 02:51:30 AM
It could just be that Dormio really is hated.
or that the secret playing is actually Raikaria.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 11, 2014, 03:14:14 AM
it was just a slightlyvlonger descriptive rvs vote. if you ask me they flipping out on me is what i would call weird
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 11, 2014, 03:17:24 AM
at least one of shadoweh and Conq are town
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 11, 2014, 03:19:44 AM
honestly i would say that its gut. but sky pal lurking all the way while you all just cast votes at me without providing any reasoning is weird, so to say. since i thought i was sparking off discussion, which should be a good thing, but am walled in the face with bad things

and honestly if it was due to ninja!meta drop it. i looked back up a few games in the storage so that i wont become neo serely. i hope at least you guys can bother to explain your votes on me if anything else so we can get to scumhunting
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 11, 2014, 04:09:46 AM
ActionDan
Quote
at least one of shadoweh and Conq are town

Why is that?

***

I think that Cheez8 voting for DNA here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1060902.html#msg1060902) was strange and totally unexplained.  He was voting for Conqueror then suddenly switched to DNA for no reason given.  It was right after CF7 vote switched to DNA, too. 

My vote on CF7 was 90% lol rvs and 10% 'My mafia strategy is basically to OMGUS all the time' but now he stopped voting for me I have to re-evaluate. 

I think that CF7's switch on to DNA was because he saw he suddenly had three votes and needed to light a fire under somebody else. 

I'm actually going to keep my vote on CF7 and switch it from 'omgus' to 'serious vote'.

I think that DNA's vote on me for meta was not unreasonable but I live in Japan time, so I was asleep, not lurking ^__~
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 11, 2014, 04:19:07 AM
I don't really think that three votes during RVS counts as people flipping out on you. That's pretty normal, honestly, and it strikes me as odd that you're trying to defend yourself already. It's also the only vaguely suspicious thing I've noticed so far, so I'm keeping my vote on you for real now.

...Also I just re-checked the votecount and it says with 13 players it's 8 to lynch. I guess there's really something more to the Fortress Populous than Dormio being hated?

Cut by Paladin. That switch was mostly just from remembering my tendency to not understand Darkie's logic and have tremendous difficulty getting any reads out of his posts, which bothers me more than my issues with Conq's name.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 11, 2014, 04:39:05 AM
@sky.  conq's vote on shadoweh would be unusual if it occurred with both of them scum at that time
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 11, 2014, 04:53:10 AM
so cheez
you logic for you doing a serious vote is because you think someone criticising the status quo is not okay

wut
and my logic is perfectly clear. i just said that it was a rvs for sp vote thats a bit more wordy. and in a game qith 13 people where lynch thereshold is 7 having three unexplained vote switching is p damn convicting. thats why i am asking you guys to make sth reasonable else if anything you guys should be policy lynched.

##vote: cheez8
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 11, 2014, 05:12:50 AM
I wasn't criticizing your logic from earlier this game, I was talking how confused you made me in previous games. And I don't know why you're calling my vote serious this early in the game.

But okay.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: BigBangMeteor on January 11, 2014, 05:13:52 AM
Votecount of the Miniscule Cave Dragon

Dormio (1): Fortress Populous
CF7 (3): Shadoweh; Sky_Paladin; Zakeri;
Shadoweh (2): ActionDan; Conq
Darkninjaabc (3): CF7; Cheez8; NNR
ActionDan (1): SB
Serela (1): Dormio
Cheez8 (1): Darkninjaabc

Not Voting (2): O4rfish, Serela

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140113T1130&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1

(DNA, in the future, unvote before voting someone new)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: O4rfish on January 11, 2014, 05:15:26 AM
@sky.  conq's vote on shadoweh would be unusual if it occurred with both of them scum at that time

This sounds like poor logic, given we are in the first segment of day one.
##Vote: ActionDan
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 11, 2014, 06:45:16 AM
it comes from experience
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 11, 2014, 06:47:06 AM
wait a second.

haven't we played sometime before in some abortive game?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 11, 2014, 06:53:35 AM
my guess is that the scum team is Shadoweh, SB, and NNR.

boom headshot?

sleeeep
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 11, 2014, 07:15:51 AM
##Unvote
##Vote Shadoweh
at least one of shadoweh and Conq are town
Care to explain this bit? Seems kinda weird me.
My vote on CF7 was 90% lol rvs and 10% 'My mafia strategy is basically to OMGUS all the time' but now he stopped voting for me I have to re-evaluate. 
I think that CF7's switch on to DNA was because he saw he suddenly had three votes and needed to light a fire under somebody else. 
I'm actually going to keep my vote on CF7 and switch it from 'omgus' to 'serious vote'.
Actually he just thought that a bit too big post in rvs phase was a bit suspicious.
And i'm honored by your seriousness.
Considering you try to justify keeping your omgus vote is a little bit... curious.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 11, 2014, 07:24:44 AM
Also i'm a bit concerned by Conq's lurking. Usually he's way more active.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 11, 2014, 07:50:45 AM
Also i'm a bit concerned by Conq's lurking. Usually he's way more active.
Several things I want to start about this statement but first: CF7, how would you construe my posting in this game so far as lurking? Also, is your vote on Darkninja serious?

Oarfish, this is your first game of mafia, right?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 11, 2014, 07:54:37 AM
Several things I want to start about this statement but first: CF7, how would you construe my posting in this game so far as lurking? Also, is your vote on Darkninja serious?
Well, it's just that i am kind of used to more active you it seems.
And vote on Dark is somewhat serious.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 11, 2014, 08:11:54 AM
Well, it's true that I would generally be more active, but not within the first 24 hours of game start.  ;) Also I only joined this game because Dormio forced me to.

Nobody posting seriously seems scummy to me as of yet (Dan is probably town, CF7 as well after the latest few posts, sky/cheez/dna all up in the air though). Shadoweh's easier to read when she's forced to post (hint hint).   :3
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 11, 2014, 09:02:21 AM
##Unvote
##vote: conq

guts never lie to me


can we seriously have someone wall something. i am here to
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 11, 2014, 09:04:29 AM
play. and i want conq to explain his reads
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: O4rfish on January 11, 2014, 09:05:16 AM
This IS my first game of mafia (aside from RvB which wasn't really mafia), but it seems from reading some past games that people who lurk or refuse to pass judgement on their fellows will be lynched, and newness is not deemed a valid excuse.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 11, 2014, 09:34:58 AM
okay ao since everyone is hqppy being quiet heres a piece of my mind for everyone.

cheez, what the fuck. your intial vote on me was followed by an explaination of someone else. and when you are asked to explain shit you just deny well this isnt what i mean literally lol. the fuck. i dont understand that, but effort whatever.

cf7 i have no idea why me liking discussion and sparking off said discussion to play to my wincon is bad. i also have no clue why defending myself from retarded people is bad. given ihave named the scenario that is d1. ppl are easier to get lynched d1 anyway so imo me flipping out is totes justified. also, wtf is somewhat serious. you are not explaining anything at all. just dragging out shitting on ne and my beautiful head with your shitty vote. if i can multishit i would vote you for being absolutely retarded but i cant multishit

say SOMETHING shadoweh.
my answer to your q earlier is rvs. should be obvious enough at a glance

conq explain stuff better we saw you did that


becuz i am arrogant and selfcentered i cannot comment on shit like the big picture which do not threaten my immediate existence. ask me or you do it. ninja out
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 11, 2014, 10:51:00 AM
Not sure why people are focussed on lurking Shadoweh when I've posted even less, lol.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sky Paladin

I don't really like his "its a serious vote now" post. It feels like he's just sort of forcing himself to come up with a reason; nobody feels massive pressure from 3 RVS less than 24 hours after the game starts.

O4rfish bugs me slightly on his Dan vote seems seems like a really weird reaction to Dan's post. idk, maybe its just because of the contrast between the "what do i do" posts and suddenly there's a real reason there.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 11, 2014, 11:20:02 AM
cf7 i have no idea why me liking discussion and sparking off said discussion to play to my wincon is bad. i also have no clue why defending myself from retarded people is bad. given ihave named the scenario that is d1. ppl are easier to get lynched d1 anyway so imo me flipping out is totes justified. also, wtf is somewhat serious. you are not explaining anything at all. just dragging out shitting on ne and my beautiful head with your shitty vote. if i can multishit i would vote you for being absolutely retarded but i cant multishit
By somewhat serious i meant that your initial post seemed kind of scummy to. It's a rvs post i admit, but well, your switch to Sky_P in the same post after your vote on Zak was weird.
And, please, don't shit on me. =)

becuz i am arrogant and selfcentered i cannot comment on shit like the big picture which do not threaten my immediate existence. ask me or you do it. ninja out
Oh. Not pro-town post at all...
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 11, 2014, 11:26:38 AM
if you are deliberately twisting my scarastic jab at you scums wagoning without any reason given on me in this way suit yourself
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 11, 2014, 11:44:35 AM
DNA, why are you so concerned about RVS votes?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 11, 2014, 12:05:27 PM
It feels like he's just sort of forcing himself to come up with a reason; nobody feels massive pressure from 3 RVS less than 24 hours after the game starts.

in hindsight this is kinda funny
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 11, 2014, 12:34:22 PM
1.d1 mindset
2.for sparking off discussion
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 11, 2014, 12:48:29 PM
you guys are lucky if I post at all before tomorrow *crosses arms*
also Conq is cheating by checking when I'm watching the IRC, nerf plz ban mod, yes i know it's obviously not a secret kilgamans, having to explain the joke makes it not funny, why would you even call that out?

Care to explain this bit? Seems kinda weird me.
Dan explained it literally before this post (expeerience!) Please explain if 'curious' means scummy or not on SB. Also how Conq is lurking in a game no one is posting in :V

uhm, I think I'm too tired to read DABC's posts because they're making my head hurt. I'll check tomorrow to see if he's actually saying words that make sense. By then I also expect Zakeri to have made a post with substance in it. And Serela I guess, but one of these people is marginally less likely to hurt my head to read afterwards.

I dunno, it doesn't seem like much has happened yet. Dormio sounds a little townie+ for already being mad about the game state and that's about it?



Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 11, 2014, 01:38:08 PM
Dan explained it literally before this post (expeerience!)
Please explain if 'curious' means scummy or not on SB.
Best explanation. Ever.
Well, i'd say i'll give him FoS for now.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 11, 2014, 02:19:01 PM
it was just a slightlyvlonger descriptive rvs vote. if you ask me they flipping out on me is what i would call weird

It's not weird. It's pretty standard to pick on the biggest posters of the day, especially when trying to transition out of RVS.

Sky's 57 seems kind of confirmation bias-y to me. it sounds more like trying to fit CF7's actions into a scum mindset than evaluating it alone.
Quote from: Sky Paladin
I think that CF7's switch on to DNA was because he saw he suddenly had three votes and needed to light a fire under somebody else.
This is probably a better argument for him being town than scum. Any good Mafia player will react to getting a wagon by pointing out people who (they think) deserve the wagon more. Reacting to pressure isn't scummy, it's how you react to pressure.

I can't parse Ninja's vote on Cheesy. I can't tell if his outburst in post 75 is sincere or not, but I'm a little wary.

Quote
By then I also expect Zakeri to have made a post
Lurkers complaining about lurkers complaining about lurkers complaining abo-
I don't keep strong track of time, but I'm like 85% certain it's not been 24 hours since game start so could everybody just stop complaining about the fact that others haven't posted yet? I mean it's 99% likely that everyone is just sleeping and waiting for you to post.

Cut: I really wanted this post to be after Shadoweh's to compliment my point about complaining about lurkers in ed1, but you just reminded me that I actually forgot to switch votes.

##Unvote: CF7
##Vote: Sky_Paladin

DarkNinja is the closest second but honestly the only strong feeling I have right now is CF7 prob-town.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 11, 2014, 02:22:38 PM
I thought the curious comment was directed at Sky, not me, since you were quoting him.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 11, 2014, 02:36:00 PM
It had been like 27 hours since game start when you said that, but yeah it's kind of pointless to complain about people not posting when the game hadn't left RVS yet. Or maybe it had, it's kind of hard to tell so far in this game.

Quote
I think that CF7's switch on to DNA was because he saw he suddenly had three votes and needed to light a fire under somebody else.
##Unvote ##Vote CF7

Probably the most disagreeable logic I've seen so far that isn't obviously stemming from RVS (or Darkie). At this point in the game that's satisfying enough of a vote for me
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 11, 2014, 02:36:19 PM
##Unvote ##Vote SkyPaladin

how2type correct names
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 11, 2014, 02:44:37 PM
I probably sounded angrier than I really am, but it's kind of absurd seeing CF7 complain about Conqueror who complained (with Dark) about Shadoweh, who complained about Me, with a little of SB complaining about himself sprinkled in between there.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 11, 2014, 02:54:38 PM
And, yes, my "curious" reaction was about Sky_P. Thinking about switching to him, but i'd like to hear what he has to say, still.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 11, 2014, 03:52:41 PM
cheez, what the fuck. your intial vote on me was followed by an explaination of someone else. and when you are asked to explain shit you just deny well this isnt what i mean literally lol. the fuck. i dont understand that, but effort whatever.
I was switching from one RVS vote to another, Darkie. I get that it would be helpful for everyone to have logic in their votes but RVS votes really just don't have that.
I did make a post where I used logic to keep my vote on you, though! Please stop ignoring that one and focusing on ones which I literally cannot justify (which isn't helping your case, by the way.)

Also yay I can start getting vague reads now
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 11, 2014, 04:36:38 PM
Votecount of the !!Kitten!!

Dormio (1): Fortress Populous
CF7 (2): Shadoweh; Sky_Paladin
Shadoweh (2): ActionDan; Conq
Darkninjaabc (3): CF7; Cheez8; NNR
ActionDan (1): O4rfish
Serela (1): Dormio
Conq (1): Darkninjaabc
Sky_Paladin (3): SB; Zakeri; Serela

Not Voting (0): No-one ^_^

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140113T1130&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1

##Unvote ##Vote CF7

##Unvote ##Vote SkyPaladin

how2type correct names

How 2 Unvote when you were not voting Serela :V
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 11, 2014, 04:43:50 PM


ok

zak. what you think is meta aka that bullying the most wordy player for content i can understand. but apparantly there exist people other than you yourself voting and how can you ensure even first timers to the game, me, practically everyone not you understand your so called meta. this is also exactly why i am asking people to explain shit themselves, as opposed to you explaining for everyone.

just so everyone will actually read my shit, i am gonna tldr every point i make.

tldr, zak is not you, the reader. what he thinks is right may not be what you think, hence i am asking for you to justify shit yourself.

to cheez. is it your scummeta to willfully misunderstand shit? i am obviously referring to this post
I don't really think that three votes during RVS counts as people flipping out on you. That's pretty normal, honestly, and it strikes me as odd that you're trying to defend yourself already. It's also the only vaguely suspicious thing I've noticed so far, so I'm keeping my vote on you for real now.

...Also I just re-checked the votecount and it says with 13 players it's 8 to lynch. I guess there's really something more to .....
and i said, explictly. your response, aka the quote. is shit. i am extremely clear in stating my stance and my justification for flipping out referring to this post. how would you assume that i am attacking your rvs other than this obvious display of logic you mentioned is beyond me.

tldr, cheez is making a retarded assumption i am attacking his rvs logic rather than the above quote where he obviously included his own analysis.

this is bullshit
##Unvote
##vote:cheez8
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 11, 2014, 05:14:42 PM
or wait I think I was supposed to vote CF7 yeah

I don't know why I thought I had it wrong? >_>;

##unvote ##vote cf7
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 11, 2014, 05:17:02 PM
why does darkie have "meta" in like half of the sentences in his posts, meta is not -that- important
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 11, 2014, 05:47:25 PM
to cheez. is it your scummeta to willfully misunderstand shit?
...
and i said, explictly. your response, aka the quote. is shit. i am extremely clear in stating my stance and my justification for flipping out referring to this post. how would you assume that i am attacking your rvs other than this obvious display of logic you mentioned is beyond me.
Believe me, Darkie, I am doing my best to understand what you're saying. I thought I was succeeding, too!
As for you being "extremely clear"...
cheez, what the fuck. your intial vote on me was followed by an explaination of someone else. and when you are asked to explain shit you just deny well this isnt what i mean literally lol. the fuck. i dont understand that, but effort whatever.
...Every way I look at it, this sounds like you're talking about my response to Paladin, where I explained why I swapped my RVS vote. I really can't see how any of this quote applies to the post where I listed an actual reason to keep my vote on you.

If we're talking about that post though, yeah, I agree. It was a pretty weak reason. You haven't done much since then to make me change my mind though, and the only reasons I can come up with to vote for anybody else so far are even worse.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 11, 2014, 05:59:20 PM
Oh wait I think I finally know what you're talking about. Were you talking about this post?
I wasn't criticizing your logic from earlier this game, I was talking how confused you made me in previous games. And I don't know why you're calling my vote serious this early in the game.

But okay.

If so... yeah, no, you were definitely not "extremely clear" in stating your stance.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 11, 2014, 06:36:43 PM
Zakeri;
Confirmation bias is a logical error, but both townies and mafia can make this mistake, so it's not useful as a discriminatory factor. 

I voted for CF7 because his reason of voting for DNA seemed fake.  Townies don't need to lie.  This looked like a lie!  Therefore, I voted for the one who I thought was scum. 

***

ActionDan
Quote
at least one of shadoweh and Conq are town

Conq's vote on shadoweh would be unusual if it occurred with both of them scum at that time

This is useless. 

"Conq's vote on Shadoweh would be unusual if it occured with both of them scum at that time" = Conq's vote on Shadoweh is unusual if both of them are scum. 

But there is a vote so this is saying...what.  One of them must be town and the other is therefore scum?  What's your point here?

They can't both be scum?  Could they both be town?  It's day 1 and RVS.  Scum can (and do!) vote for scum. 

I think making a nonsense argument and then handwaving it as 'experience' isn't helpful. 

***

Serela
Why Serela is voting for CF7 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061147.html#msg1061147)
Oops, Serela meant to write Sky (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061148.html#msg1061148)
No wait they really meant CF7 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061168.html#msg1061168)

Reasons:
Quote
Probably the most disagreeable logic I've seen so far that isn't obviously stemming from RVS (or Darkie). At this point in the game that's satisfying enough of a vote for me
This was apparently in response to something I said, but Serela accidentally voted for CF7.  Then they switched to me. 
But then Serela switched back to CF7 a little later, because...
Quote
or wait I think I was supposed to vote CF7 yeah

I don't know why I thought I had it wrong? >_>;

Serela, why did you really vote for CF7?

***

I think Serela's (missing reasons) are more serious than Dan's junk argument and my feeling about CF7's motives. 

Therefore:
##unvote
##vote Serela
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 11, 2014, 07:21:20 PM
Um... I don't really see where any of the suspicion towards CF7 is coming from. I'm not getting any scum reads from his posts, really.

I guess I suspect Dan a little bit right now though. His contribution is pretty baseless for a post of that nature, especially so early, so I guess he could be trying to mislead people. Then again it's kind of a weird way to mislead people, but then again it's just sort of a weird post in the first place, so I'm not too sure what to think.

...Not getting too much to go from otherwise, though, other than thinking SB's reasoning seems refreshingly town-like for whatever reason, and not trusting Darkie. I could probably have a read on Serela by now but I don't even know which of his posts I should be looking at.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 11, 2014, 07:42:03 PM
I voted for CF7 sheeping what I quoted from Zakeri. Then I looked at it again and got confused >_>;;; Uh. I didn't get enough sleep the night before.

It's pretty much just a sheep though, so yeah, the quote is the entirety of the reasoning.

I have no idea why I even thought it was supposed to be you, I think I had some thoughts on you that weren't related and then I mixed them all up when trying to review what I'd done. You weren't actually relevant to my post at all.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 11, 2014, 07:58:00 PM
So in order to understand you, That quote you took from Sky_paladin was there because you agreed with the reasoning, not because you disagreed with it.

Your post is vague enough that I and maybe a few others had completely thought it was the opposite of that, so switching back to CF7 the second time made you look really bad.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 11, 2014, 08:08:35 PM
I... wasn't that a quote from you

oh it was from skypaladin

so that's why I got confused and voted SkyPaladin. Oops.

But no I agreed with the quote.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 11, 2014, 08:08:58 PM
This is a lesson that I need to continue to put the names on quotes like I usually do >_>;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 11, 2014, 08:14:11 PM
Now I feel bad because I went back and reread Zakeri's posts and found it and realized why I went "Oh wait I wanted to vote SkyPaladin", because the quote was from SkyPaladin and Zakeri used it as a reason SkyPaladin was scum and I agreed with that.

Oh my god now I'm just confusing myself.

I'm going to go take a nap.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: NekoNekoRex on January 11, 2014, 08:15:47 PM
I'm back from me work under tha fort.

DNA is mos undwarvenly wit' his reactions. A true dwarf would nah panic so greatly wit' a couple ah RVS votes. I am suspicious ah him nah bein' a dwarf, ta say the leas'.

Ah was lookin' at Paladin's problem everyone has been goin' on ahbout fer the longest time, and finally figured out ah had been reading it wrong tha whole time. Ah thought it was a bit strange that folks would put that much reaction over one single post, bein' more reactionary then the post the were callin' reactionary. I do think thah it is pretty strange a dwarf like S_P would accuse another dwarf of panicin' over three votes.

Ah the same time I cannae help but think there may be filthy Elves among tha naysayers fer Paladin, but ah have no definite idea as ta who it maht be.

I think I'll keep mah vote where it is for nah. If anythin', DNA's unreadable posts and flurries of strange logic should be ah matter o' policy to rid us of until he improves. The way he explodes mo' then S_P is of note as well. He's gah' notin more to worry bout then what he himself is stirring.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 11, 2014, 08:17:40 PM
Serela, please stop being cute.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 11, 2014, 08:26:23 PM
Welp.

On the bright side I'd imagine Serela would have been a lot more careful than that as scum, so that makes for a pretty solid townread.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 11, 2014, 08:30:14 PM
I don't know whether to be happy or concerned this occurs on a regular basis
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 11, 2014, 08:47:26 PM
Ok, Selery is his usual d1 self, which is ~unhelpful~. But i guess he's town enough for now.
Darkie is a bit complicated. He's somewhat his usual self too, but i'm leaning on the scummy side on him. Can't exactly pin it down.
From Cheez's answers to Darkie i'd say he's town.
As is Sky_P.

Not much to say about the rest, i guess need more posts.
Anyway, i guess i'll just go to sleep early and reread stuff tomorrow. Also i'll probably leave my vote where it is at the moment.
P.S. Darkie do you get some perks for saying the word "shit" every other sentence? Just curious.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 11, 2014, 08:58:30 PM
Holy shit, I'm in full ham mode and forgot that posting was a thing I was meant to do.
Either way, I'm pretty happy with keeping my vote on Serela for now.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 11, 2014, 09:20:50 PM
i find dna's posts so much easier to read when i just get microsoft sam to read them

maybe its because i'm not actually reading them

Anyway.

##Unvote
##Vote: NNR


He basically called Sky scummy, then turned around and said "but there are probably some scum pushing on Sky too!" without saying who or why he thought that, and then pretty much said "we should policy DNA", which is a great way to avoid the blame if he flips town, and then essentially we're back to day 1, even with a scumflip.

Sky's Serela vote post doesn't make me feel much better about him, not so much his reasons for a Serela vote (although serela probably did just screw up in hindsight but its a null tell in that case) but his Dan suspicions pretty much seem to be based on the fact that Dan is playing like Dan. Seriously, he does this shit every game.

CF7, earlier you said you were considering voting for Sky (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061152.html#msg1061152), but then you turned around and said he's town (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061218.html#msg1061218)? How did that happen?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 11, 2014, 09:31:51 PM
OH MY GOD

I JUST DISCOVERED THE QUICK REPLY FEATURE

I FEEL LIKE AN IDIOT
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 11, 2014, 11:12:17 PM
Holy shit, I'm in full ham mode and forgot that posting was a thing I was meant to do.
Either way, I'm pretty happy with keeping my vote on Serela for now.
Does Serela's recent failures add or subtract from this decision?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 11, 2014, 11:18:27 PM
In review of SB's case: ##Unvote Sky_Paladin
##Vote: NekoNekoRex


I agree with both of distancing from DNA's lynch and empty content on Sky's wagon. I feel like this is more important than the thing I had on Sky that I've almost already forgotten.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: BigBangMeteor on January 11, 2014, 11:37:17 PM
OH MY GOD

I JUST DISCOVERED THE QUICK REPLY FEATURE

I FEEL LIKE AN IDIOT
holy shit so did I
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 11, 2014, 11:40:33 PM
play. and i want conq to explain his reads
Gut. B)

Also, I wasn't really calling out Shadoweh for lurking (lol 24 hours since day start), but more picking on her because Shadoweh is fun to poke and you usually get nice reactions from wagoning her.

Darkninja, I can't follow any of your reasoning especially when you're just throwing clusterfuck bombs out. Tone down the language and cut out unnecessary words. >_>

Serela flying off a logic bridge is nothing new and also non alignment indicative. :V I just want him to make a coherent post when he wakes back up because I still have no idea what he's talking about upon rereading.

Quote
I think Serela's (missing reasons) are more serious than Dan's junk argument and my feeling about CF7's motives.
Sky_Paladin, could you explain what you mean by this? I mean I know what you mean by missing reasons, but what makes it more "serious" and thus more deserving of a vote?

I'm in half agreement with the votes on NNR; I want him to explain who he thinks is the scum picking on Sky_Paladin since the way he casually threw that out is the scummiest part of his post imo.

But right now I'm going to
##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio

because even if Dormio is too busy playing around with his new computer, I see this post:
Holy shit, I'm in full ham mode and forgot that posting was a thing I was meant to do.
Either way, I'm pretty happy with keeping my vote on Serela for now.
as Dormio taking advantage of Serela not making any sense to just stick to him. Like I'm pretty sure Dormio as town here would give us something other than just "oh hey sup btw I'll just keep my Serela vote here."
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 11, 2014, 11:43:38 PM
Difference between Dormio!town and Dormio!scum is that the latter sticks to someone because he thinks they're scummy and the former sticks to someone because he can.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 12:08:11 AM
I'm in half agreement with the votes on NNR; I want him to explain who he thinks is the scum picking on Sky_Paladin since the way he casually threw that out is the scummiest part of his post imo.
A better way to phrase this is that I want NNR to explain why he thought there were scum pushing Sky_Paladin.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 12, 2014, 12:12:12 AM
Gut. B)

Also, I wasn't really calling out Shadoweh for lurking (lol 24 hours since day start), but more picking on her because Shadoweh is fun to poke and you usually get nice reactions from wagoning her.
I'm ignoring you because I'm onto you, you know. STOP POKING ME!
Also, shouldn't that be the other way around with Dormio?

Serela has confused his own scumpartners before so he really hasn't done something I'd consider Sereley enough yet to be obvtown. Actually this is the kind of thing I would expect if Sky P is his scumbuddy and he thought Zak was catching his obvscum partner. Serela if you could take it from the top with who is scummy and why, that would be super friends great.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 12, 2014, 01:21:47 AM
Phone post like first one ever.  Keeping vote on shadowed because I can.

Um I believe Nnr has a pr.
I
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 01:40:17 AM
Also, shouldn't that be the other way around with Dormio?
How so?

Also, there are barely 34 hours left in the day guys.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 01:41:05 AM
EBWOP: And gals, of course.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 05:06:23 AM
Also Shadoweh why are you still on CF7? GOSH SHADOWEH. >:(
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 05:30:05 AM
Difference between Dormio!town and Dormio!scum is that the latter sticks to someone because he thinks they're scummy and the former sticks to someone because he can.
oh, fuck, i can't believe i didn't parse what you were talking about until now. yes, i meant the other way around. >_>
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 12, 2014, 06:26:36 AM
Morning. Reread stuff.
Serela's general posting and reasoning for voting me is just uh... And i think he's a bit too scummy even for d1.
CF7, earlier you said you were considering voting for Sky (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061152.html#msg1061152), but then you turned around and said he's town (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061218.html#msg1061218)? How did that happen?
I was considering voting for Sky_P because of his justification of making his rvs vote into serious vote. I think he's still town at the moment. And funnily you as well. Because it looks like your usual scumhunting and picking on people.

So, yeah.
#Unvote
#Vote Serela

I gave my reasoning earlier.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 12, 2014, 10:47:27 AM
Also, there are barely 34 hours left in the day guys.
What, really? Well shit. It doesn't feel like it, probably just because of how afk everyone is. I blame marathon hype. 24 hours from here. I might just have a good vote though.

Morning. Reread stuff.
Serela's general posting and reasoning for voting me is just uh... And i think he's a bit too scummy even for d1. I was considering voting for Sky_P because of his justification of making his rvs vote into serious vote. I think he's still town at the moment. And funnily you as well. Because it looks like your usual scumhunting and picking on people.

So, yeah.
#Unvote
#Vote Serela

I gave my reasoning earlier.
Ignoring how wrong 'a bit too scummy for Day 1' sounds, your only previous mention of Serela was that he's his usual unhelpful self, but town enough for now. I thought he'd at least posted between here and now, but he hadn't so the only thing I see here is someone who saw he was at 3 votes and a leading wagon going into the end of Day 1, saw someone else picking up votes who also happened to be attacking them, and picked a spot for themselves. You need to give a better explanation then uhhhhhhhhhhh..
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 12, 2014, 10:52:09 AM
Hmm? I still dislike Serela.

##Unvote
##Vote Conqueror

oh, fuck, i can't believe i didn't parse what you were talking about until now. yes, i meant the other way around. >_>
This is clearly a slip and Conq knows that I tryhard way more as scum than I do as town.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 12, 2014, 02:23:06 PM
Dormio's reply to Conq just looks super reactionary and lazy, just like his Serela park.

CF7, you still haven't answered WHY the change happened, I know that you think Sky is town now but have no idea why, and that's what I was asking for.

Man, nothing really happened while I was asleep. I think Serela being a derp is null.

Can we get votals?

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 12, 2014, 02:23:44 PM
also o4rfish get in here seriously
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 12, 2014, 02:48:21 PM
I'm totes not a votecount bot but the biggest wagons are Serela and CF7 at 3 right now I think
So either vote one of them or hit up Dormio harder or something? Let's get something going in here.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: O4rfish on January 12, 2014, 03:01:19 PM
also o4rfish get in here seriously

Are you tunneling me? I gave my reason for voting already.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 12, 2014, 03:04:13 PM
Tunneling = Focusing solely on one player. I'm definitely not doing that. You hadn't posted in over 24 hours and that's all you come in to say?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: O4rfish on January 12, 2014, 03:15:35 PM
What exactly do you want?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: BigBangMeteor on January 12, 2014, 03:28:11 PM
Votecount of the Terrible Toad

Dormio (2): Fortress Populous, Conq
CF7 (2): Shadoweh; Serela
Shadoweh (1): ActionDan
Darkninjaabc (2): Cheez8; NNR
ActionDan (1): O4rfish
Serela (2): Sky_Paladin, CF7
Conq (1): Dormio
Cheez8 (1): Darkninjaabc
NNR (2): SB, Zakeri

Not Voting (0): No-one ^_^

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140113T1130&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1

~20 hours left, if you're too lazy to click on the deadline like me.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 12, 2014, 03:28:25 PM
Do you have opinions on other players? What are they?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 12, 2014, 03:29:27 PM
Damnit my votecount got cut by BBM

On a side note remember that you may vote for No Lynch once during the game. No majority counts as No Lynch.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: O4rfish on January 12, 2014, 03:55:41 PM
grrrr, all right I guess I can't argue with that.
Be back in an hour or so.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: O4rfish on January 12, 2014, 04:48:31 PM
All right, my reads on fellow players.
DNA: talks like a goblin.
Shadoweh: competent farmer/brewer.
(Kilga is the secret dwarf! it all makes sense now)
Serela: glitching. Possibly a butterfly in the workplace?
ActionDan: no effort to explain poor logic. Noble.
Skypaladin: harried worker. Possibly the Main Character?

In conclusion, ##unvote ActionDan, ##vote DNA
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 12, 2014, 05:12:40 PM
Okay, starting from the beginning this time and writing down the stuff so I don't SCREW IT ALL UP IN MY HEAD >:T

Quote from: SkyPal
I think that CF7's switch on to DNA was because he saw he suddenly had three votes and needed to light a fire under somebody else.

I'm actually going to keep my vote on CF7 and switch it from 'omgus' to 'serious vote'.
Okay. This. This is the logic that is bad, which I disagree with, and want to vote the person who made it. Yes. That's what I wanted to do the whole time. (I think; at the least it's how I see it now) Moving on.

Skypal's 97 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061187.html#msg1061187), I'm not quite sure how to feel about- prodding my confusing mess and Dan's ????-ness was justified but it's also going after two obvious-tier targets that also kind of do this stuff all the time ;_; (I guess that means it should be neutral, but... I don't like it. This is probably me being bad at properly explaining how I feel about something so the conclusion comes out wrong)

I can see the case on NNR but I'd rather get more content from him, I understand why he's getting voted but I don't feel as strongly about the post as others seem to.

Dormio is Laz-E tier and Shadoweh's point on CF7 is pretty decent.

Oh jeez, we have to consolidate already. I'd be okay with lynching any of Dormio/CF7/Skypal and NNR I wouldn't complain too much about- but I suppose I'd pick SkyPal as the bigger priority. This d1 must be 72 hours but for some reason it feels like a 48 hour lynch in terms of the amount of content there is to try to get reads off of; it's totally true that my "okay with lynching" list is from things I'd normally consider fairly small and needing to be advanced upon, but d1 is d1 so w/e

Cut by Oarfish giving opinions so covered in flavor it's hard to understand what he's actually trying to say :c
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 12, 2014, 05:18:39 PM
oh shit I forgot about voting

##Unvote ##Vote SkyPal

I'll be gone at some point later in the day but I'll be around plenty, etc
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 12, 2014, 05:27:05 PM
Re Conq asked me why I thought Serela's (missing reasons) was more serious than ActionDan's nonsense. 

Basically, I'm operating on the premise that town players don't need to lie.  Therefore, when we see players lying it's what I consider to be a scumtell. 

Of course this isn't universally true.  There's some reasons that a towny might lie (about their role for example).

At the time, I thought that Serela had lied about their reason for vote switching.  Meanwhile, ActionDan had posted something that was illogical.  I felt that a lie was a bigger red flag than a logical error. 

However, just now I ISO'd ActionDan. 
He actually was voting for Shadoweh whilst saying "One of Shadoweh and Conq is town."  Relevance:  Why would you vote for somebody you thought was 50% likely to be town?
Quote
my guess is that the scum team is Shadoweh, SB, and NNR.
So at this point ActionDan's pretty clear that he thinks Conqueror is the one that's town.  Mind you, his line about Conqueror/Shadoweh came up some time after he voted for Shadoweh, and shortly after Conqueror voted for Shadoweh.  ActionDan never made his reason for voting Shadoweh clear; he just vote switched to Shadoweh after RVS voting SB for whatever mystery reason.
Then he disappeared until this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061281.html#msg1061281) random gibberish, 'keeping vote on Shadoweh because I can'. 

And that's the last we've seen of ActionDan until now. 

So I'm going to go with:
##unvote
##vote ActionDan


Because of pretending to help, vote parking, and posting random gibberish does not compute to towny.  I understand this may be "Dan's usual playstyle" but it's about time somebody called him on it. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 12, 2014, 05:29:41 PM
Cut by Serela. 

What is the ACTUAL REASON you are voting for me?

Please drop the not sure what you are doing act and stop lying. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 12, 2014, 05:31:42 PM
Also, Serela, nobody else is voting me at the moment. 

If you want to consolidate, at least pick somebody who has votes.  Please pay attention to the game. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 05:44:24 PM
SP I'm going to dissect your vote on Dan later but I have to go right now and:

##Unvote
##Vote Conqueror
This is clearly a slip and Conq knows that I tryhard way more as scum than I do as town.
Dormio is basically scum for this post. 1) Dormio never reads me as scum and 2) "clearly a slip" and 3) Dormio knows that his not trying hard at the moment has nothing to do with his alignment and everything to do with the fact that he's playing vidya games instead of mafia.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: O4rfish on January 12, 2014, 05:47:12 PM
Skypaladin: are you named after a MtG card? Also, I agree that ActionDan seems scummy but DNA already has a wagon.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 12, 2014, 05:50:15 PM
I have an actual fortress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himeji_castle) to attend to tomorrow, so I will be gone for around 15 hours, in time to get back for the last two hours of the day phase.  If I read a compelling argument for somebody else I will be able to change my vote. 

Cut by Conqueror:  No problem.  I'll read what you have to say when I get back. 

Cut by O4rfish:  It's the result of an evolution of names from 'Sky_Tank' but people kept picking that user name so it eventually polymorphed into paladin. 

With over half of an actual day left, I think it's a little early to be jumping onto wagons of only two votes; but I'm out for the large part of the rest of this phase so the decision is probably out of my hands. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 12, 2014, 06:16:12 PM
If you want to consolidate, consolidate on NNR, he's even less town that Sky and DNA combined.
In the middle of processing new information.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 12, 2014, 06:39:51 PM
Sigh.

I disagree with both the Dan and DNA cases. I don't think they're town, but the cases themselves seem to just be that they're playing like Dan/DNA normally do.

I can't make out most of O4rfish's reads aside from DNA and Dan. Could you explain them please?

Half of Serela's last post is a waffly mess and I don't really like it.

Would lynch NNR and Dormio right now. Both of them need to get back in here.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 12, 2014, 06:45:26 PM
I'll sheep Conq.

##unvote
##Dormio

willing to compromise on NNR if needed.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 12, 2014, 06:51:40 PM
I don't really know how to explain to SkyPaladin any clearer why I'm voting for him, because I thought I already made it pretty clear >_>; "Stop lying" is a blatant and unwarranted attack on my character without actually addressing anything, as well. It only makes me want to vote him more.

I actually wouldn't really mind lynching Dan, actually. "Dan being Dan" doesn't really change that... if it was absolutely anyone else I'd probably have him as my highest priority >> It's all unexplained and sometimes non-sensical seeming reads. And I just got cut by being sheep. Also that wasn't a vote all you did was ## at dormio :V

Quote
If you want to consolidate, at least pick somebody who has votes.  Please pay attention to the game. 
I'm going to be here most of the day, as I said, so I can vote whoever I want to right now. There is still like 16 hours left, and I only just got a real post out there, so it's almost like I only just arrived. Other people were voting you earlier so it's realistic enough to think the wagon may pick back up.

As well, the "big wagons" were people with TWO VOTES ON THEM (maybe three if I'm misremembering) so it's hardly like there's real, noteworthy wagons going on here right now >_>;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 12, 2014, 07:01:15 PM
since that's a pretty bad response to SkyPal, let me make a vaguely better one

On my previous post where I talk about why I don't like you, after the quote you can fluff up the following sentence with an obvious restatement of what everyone else who voted you already said was bad about the reasoning. For the next mini-paragraph, you can reduce the parenthesis sentence to "Maybe it should be considered null, but I don't like it".

That pretty much covers the entirety of things
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 12, 2014, 07:01:54 PM
my mistake.

##Vote: Dormio
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 12, 2014, 07:05:31 PM
(oh, skypaladin's reaction is also a reason I'm voting him now, but yeah)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 12, 2014, 07:18:03 PM
Votecount of the Cheesemaker

Dormio (3): Fortress Populous, Conq; ActionDan
CF7 (1): Shadoweh
Darkninjaabc (3): Cheez8; NNR; O4rfish
Serela (1): CF7
Conq (1): Dormio
Cheez8 (1): Darkninjaabc
NNR (2): SB, Zakeri
Sky_Paladin (1): Serela
ActionDan (1): Sky_Paladin

Not Voting (0): No-one ^_^

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140113T1130&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1

16 hours 11 mins remaining.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 12, 2014, 07:30:46 PM
Wait Conq.

Dormio is hated though.  you sure about this?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 12, 2014, 07:31:22 PM
(I kinda guess it's conditional though and not permanent)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 12, 2014, 07:35:43 PM
"so, I'm sheeping you"
"but wait, I'm not actually sure about this vote of yours that I'm copying"
 ლ(╹◡╹ლ
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 12, 2014, 08:33:11 PM
CF7, you still haven't answered WHY the change happened, I know that you think Sky is town now but have no idea why, and that's what I was asking for.
Because i'm not getting any scum vibes from him. Other than that one time. So i guess it's a misread.
Ignoring how wrong 'a bit too scummy for Day 1' sounds, your only previous mention of Serela was that he's his usual unhelpful self, but town enough for now. I thought he'd at least posted between here and now, but he hadn't so the only thing I see here is someone who saw he was at 3 votes and a leading wagon going into the end of Day 1, saw someone else picking up votes who also happened to be attacking them, and picked a spot for themselves. You need to give a better explanation then uhhhhhhhhhhh..
I voted him after rereading. His vote shenaningans seemed really off. And his explanation of "messing up names" doesn't sound like a solid town read to me tbh.
Zak's Post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061395.html#msg1061395) bothers me a bit, since there's like no case on NNR at all.

Considering we have like 1/3 of players who are too lazy to do stuff i'd vote one of them.
NNR pretty much gave 1 post worth of information.
O4rfish. Not really motivated. Gave half-assed evaluation and left.
Zak is not entirely here too.
Dormio and Conq just vote each other. Plus there's that anononymous vote on Dormio. Also total sum is 14 votes. Either there's someone with 2 votes. Mechanic that makes one player getting auto-vote. Or That anon vote actually displays like it has power but it doesn't.

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 12, 2014, 08:53:25 PM
Dormio is basically scum for this post. 1) Dormio never reads me as scum and 2) "clearly a slip" and 3) Dormio knows that his not trying hard at the moment has nothing to do with his alignment and everything to do with the fact that he's playing vidya games instead of mafia.
This is pretty hilarious.
Like how do you read this shit as being townie instead of being an incredibly lazy vote on an easy target like me since I'm being super lazy?
Just putting that out there.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 12, 2014, 09:37:02 PM
Just under 14 hours remaining. Votecount remains the same.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 09:45:48 PM
This is pretty hilarious.
Like how do you read this shit as being townie instead of being an incredibly lazy vote on an easy target like me since I'm being super lazy?
Just putting that out there.
What's hilarious is that you're using this argument against me as an excuse to keep continuing to be "lazy." I know you care more about your town game than that, and your tone here pretty much gives away that you're trying to find any way to paint me as scum instead of legit thinking I'm scum. Because clearly the only thing I've done this game is to votepark on you, instead of your monumental protown contribution, right?

Sure, let's play. How is what you quoted in any way a "slip" in any way shape or form and not you just bullshitting because you're too lazy to do anything else and think you can get away with this?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 09:47:06 PM
Re: Dormio being "hated", before I comment on that I want Raikaria to answer this first.
@Raikaria: Is this correct?
With 13 in the game it takes 8 to lynch
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 10:04:58 PM
Shadoweh can you at least give an opinion on where you're leaning for today (besides the CF7 thing I guess?)

Oarfish, I have no idea what that list is supposed to mean. What does "talks like a goblin" mean? Like, who do you think is town or scum and is there any particular reason why? That's more what people are interested in.

Serela, sky paladin isn't voting for you on the "lying" thing anymore since I think it became pretty clear you just mixed up your words or whatever. As for the forced reads you're pointing out, I'm not a big fan of them but I also remember skimming SP in the last game we played in where he was forceful on D1 for weird reasons and got lynched for it. I'd take his contribution over half the players in this game anyway.

Sky_Paladin, your logic for Actiondan scum is basically that he's lurking as far as I can tell?
Quote
Relevance:  Why would you vote for somebody you thought was 50% likely to be town?
I mean this kinda takes what Dan says out of context but you wrote a paragraph right afterwards explaining why Dan was voting Shadoweh,  so I'm just confused what that tangent was about since it doesn't seem to lead anywhere. Or did you think Dan switching his vote to Shadoweh in the first place was scummy?

Also, I don't know why people are ragging on Dan for being nonsensical, he makes perfect sense to me. :V If you want to vote someone who doesn't make sense, why not vote for Dormio? His accusation that what I said was a "slip" doesn't even make sense if you think about it, and now he's taking the "how are you reading this shit as townie" angle? Well, how's this Dormio? Instead of asking why am I townie, let's ask, why am I scummy?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 12, 2014, 10:05:46 PM
Wow I've got a lot to catch up on. Note to self, only develop unknown eye injuries when I'm not busy with a pair of mafia games.

Oh cool there's a Quick Reply feature.

Serela has confused his own scumpartners before so he really hasn't done something I'd consider Sereley enough yet to be obvtown.
Oh geez. Well, that changes things.

I was considering voting for Sky_P because of his justification of making his rvs vote into serious vote. I think he's still town at the moment. And funnily you as well. Because it looks like your usual scumhunting and picking on people.
Isn't this like your fourth game here or something? I'm surprised you already know what SB's "usual" looks like.
I probably wouldn't have even pointed that out but there are all these small things you're doing that bug me but I don't think they're worth pointing out and then other people keep pointing them out, so maybe this means something too. I dunno. It still bugs me, anyway, and keeps making me think maybe you only said it to get SB off your back.

The more I read Dormio's posts and the arguments against him, the less I'm inclined to see him as town.

Oarfish's "analysis" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061383.html#msg1061383) doesn't really make too much sense, and to my surprise this has not been remedied yet. Do you have any reads that we could understand, by any chance?

Now that there's somewhat less pain to distract me I'm beginning to notice that yeah, SP's CF7 vote logic (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061040.html#msg1061040) was pretty poor. It was kind of one of the first semi-serious reasons of the game though, so I don't think it really indicates his alignment one way or another.

Dan please say something useful.

Huh, there wasn't as much to catch up on as I thought. Right now I'm most comfortable with voting Dormio, followed by CF7 I guess and maybe Paladin. SB is pretty much the only player I really don't want to lynch though so that could probably change. As much as I try, I'm not getting any reads at all on NNR yet which seems weird despite him only posting once or twice.

##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio


Cut by Conq.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 10:06:08 PM
"so, I'm sheeping you"
"but wait, I'm not actually sure about this vote of yours that I'm copying"
 ლ(╹◡╹ლ
serela do you think dan is scum or are you just frustrated at him
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 10:15:46 PM
I could also do an NNR wagon based off his one post I guess. Will look over the CF7 point people were talking about but I tend to see minor inconsistencies like the one Shadoweh pointed out as mostly inconsequential this early in the game where there's so little to work off of.

Well, I'd ask CF7 this: why Serela over everyone else you mentioned?

Darkninja wagon would be purely policy; I haven't seen anything from his that point one way or another yet.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 10:17:05 PM
*from him that points one way or another yet, so I'd rather let night actions or further posting sort him out.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: O4rfish on January 12, 2014, 10:42:04 PM
All right, my reads on fellow players.
DNA: talks like a goblin.
Shadoweh: competent farmer/brewer.
(Kilga is the secret dwarf! it all makes sense now)
Serela: glitching. Possibly a butterfly in the workplace?
ActionDan: no effort to explain poor logic. Noble.
Skypaladin: harried worker. Possibly the Main Character?

In conclusion, ##unvote ActionDan, ##vote DNA

Well, all right. DNA is difficult to understand, uses frowned-upon words, and seems to get really emotional about his defenses. Policy lynch on account of writing too much, and not too well.

Shadoweh: infrequent poster (not that I am a great example, but whatever) with logical reads and cool demeanor.

Serela: acting exactly like one of those dwarves whose goals and environment and temperament and equipment and management all conflict. Exactly like one of those dwarves who is getting interrupted by an animal all the time. If Serela was scum, the scum team wouldn't gain much.

ActionDan: made a questionable logical leap and then COMPLETELY FAILED TO JUSTIFY IT. Since then, he has not been acting defensive upon receiving votes, which leads me to believe he is simply lazy town.

SkyPaladin: putting forth some good effort in scumhunting even on D1, although he parked his vote on a 1-wagon and then said "I'll be back at hammertime" so ... dunno, tryhard? scum? it would be difficult to tell at this point.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: O4rfish on January 12, 2014, 10:43:32 PM
and, before you say "well why didn't you say it like that the first time"
I made the connections in DF mode, then translated them just now into mafia.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 12, 2014, 10:45:49 PM
@Raikaria: Is this correct?


It's called me being a derp and forgetting that the 'Fortress Populous' vote did not count to the majority requirement. It's 7 to lynch.

I'm new to this modding thing. Derps are to be expected.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 12, 2014, 10:54:44 PM
Sure, let's play.
Alright, now we're getting riled up, let's do this.

So why we should all vote for Conqadour, part the first.
Does anyone remember these two (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1060956.html#msg1060956) posts (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1060966.html#msg1060966)?
Because it doesn't seem like Conq does. What this looks like to me is token questioning designed to do little more than set himself up to look like an active contributor that's doing so much to help town in finding the scums.

I mean the entirety of Conq's early game consists of him making some gentle nudges and prods at basically half the playerbase. (Cheez8, Shadoweh, CF7, O4rfish, Sky Palladium, DNA, and NNR)
So, what's the point of me pointing this out? Well, it's pretty simple.
Just ask yourselves why Conq would bother with all of this poking and prodding. What's the end result here?
Conq does absolutely nothing to offend any of the players or get on their bad sides while simultaneously painting himself in their minds as someone active and contributing.
I mean it's much easier to remember someone that's been "attacking" you, if you want to call Conq's pokes that, as opposed to someone doing other things which are detached from yourself.
So, yeah, I think Conq's early game and later assertions of having given a monumental protown contribution (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061428.html#msg1061428). (Saying something like that implies that you believe yourself to be in a position to be condescending, so don't try any of that "I didn't actually say that" bullshit)

Finally, we get to Conq making what is closest to an actual attack here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061257.html#msg1061257).
However, despite the apparently logic driven process that he's used this far, the only reason that he gives for me is one based on meta.
Now, to explain further about what was clearly a slip, I would like you to look at this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061258.html#msg1061258).
I'll give you some context here, I chat with Conq quite a lot about mafia and some other random topics in general.
Because of this, Conq knows that I tryhard way more as scum as opposed to town, and I think that the wording in that sentence reflects that.
I mean, it seemed to natural to Conq that he failed to correct himself (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061284.html#msg1061284) when called out on it the first time by Shadoweh.

So then, let's move on from that topic to here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061391.html#msg1061391).
Look at how little effort goes into this post because Conq is getting complacent.
He's pretty sure I'll be an easy lynch because I'm busy playing vidya games, so he doesn't feel the need to put nearly as much effort into explaining anything he does.
Instead, what we get are the following three points.
Quote
1) Dormio never reads me as scum
I'm not really all that sure what to make of this statement.
I mean, I do find Conq to be agreeable almost all of the time, but absolutes are a pretty dangerous thing.
The fact that Conq is trying to use this as a point just goes to show how arrogant he's feeling right now since he feels that easy lynch coming.
Quote
2) "clearly a slip"
Like, I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.
The fact that Conq is using lazy points like this is just further demonstrating his current arrogance.
Quote
3) Dormio knows that his not trying hard at the moment has nothing to do with his alignment and everything to do with the fact that he's playing vidya games instead of mafia.
And yet, despite making this point, Conq tried to say that my not trying hard is related to myself being scummy.
It basically all culminates in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061428.html#msg1061428) anyway, where Conq basically just claims I'm doing something with absolutely nothing to back himself up because he feels that he doesn't need it since I'm being super lazy.

After that, we have nothing but pokes and prods on other people again. :derp:
Alright Conq, your move.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 10:56:19 PM
Ah, okay. In that case, I'd point out that we don't know what is going on with the Fortress Populous vote and that it probably has no bearing on Dormio's alignment.

Responding to this monster that cut me shortly.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 11:12:24 PM
Does anyone remember these two (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1060956.html#msg1060956) posts (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1060966.html#msg1060966)?
Because it doesn't seem like Conq does. What this looks like to me is token questioning designed to do little more than set himself up to look like an active contributor that's doing so much to help town in finding the scums.

Oh no, I remember these perfectly. The only thing I was trying to do was get some discussion going and possibly a read on Cheez8 based on his response, because his initial vote on DNA slightly pinged me (why vote DNA while agreeing that Dormio is hated) so I wanted to poke around a little. To paint this as me trying to "look like an active contributor" is laughable because guess what? I was trying to get something started. Am I lording that around like it means you should townread me for me? No, absolutely not. I dropped the line completely because I didn't get anything from it and my next posts were about other stuff.

Bringing me to Dormio's next point.
I mean the entirety of Conq's early game consists of him making some gentle nudges and prods at basically half the playerbase.
Yes, absolutely. And? This has always been an integral part of my towngame, and you picking this game to suddenly pick it out and painting it as the scummiest of things to do is completely laughable? I question people. I don't try to piss off people unless they piss me off first, because mafia is a game I like to enjoy, not scream in.
So, yeah, I think Conq's early game and later assertions of having given a monumental protown contribution (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061428.html#msg1061428). (Saying something like that implies that you believe yourself to be in a position to be condescending, so don't try any of that "I didn't actually say that" bullshit)
Compared to your activity? Yeah, yeah I do, and anyone can see this. And I didn't actually say that either, so that's another point for me.

However, despite the apparently logic driven process that he's used this far, the only reason that he gives for me is one based on meta.
If you actually read that post instead of skimming it you'd see that the "meta" point was just a tack-on. The part I was voting for you was the complacency about the Serela vote.

Now, to explain further about what was clearly a slip, I would like you to look at this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061258.html#msg1061258).
I'll give you some context here, I chat with Conq quite a lot about mafia and some other random topics in general.
Because of this, Conq knows that I tryhard way more as scum as opposed to town, and I think that the wording in that sentence reflects that.
I mean, it seemed to natural to Conq that he failed to correct himself (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061284.html#msg1061284) when called out on it the first time by Shadoweh.
In fact, the wording in that sentence reflects that when people usually list two things, they then talk about "former" before the "latter" and I just mixed up the two words. I still don't see how you could see this in any way as a slip. Are you saying I meant to say that Dormio!scum thinks people are scummy and Dormio!town likes to tunnel people just because?

Re: trying hard. Yes. However, and this is the crux of the whole meta argument here, if you're busy doing schoolwork or games or hats or whatever, then your activity in mafia won't really matter that much and what shows is the attitude you bring to the game. It's not like you don't lurk as scum, it's just that you enjoy scum better because you have a gameplan.

Cutting myself.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 12, 2014, 11:28:57 PM
Continuing:
Look at how little effort goes into this post because Conq is getting complacent.
He's pretty sure I'll be an easy lynch because I'm busy playing vidya games, so he doesn't feel the need to put nearly as much effort into explaining anything he does.
Given that I was literally running out the door and stated as such that I need to leave in that post, this attack is along the lines of Dormio attacking NNR for being conveniently absent from the thread in Mirai Nikki when NNR lost his internet access. Seriously. But since I actually have the time to sit down and explain now...

I mean, I do find Conq to be agreeable almost all of the time, but absolutes are a pretty dangerous thing.
The fact that Conq is trying to use this as a point just goes to show how arrogant he's feeling right now since he feels that easy lynch coming.
Agreed, absolutes are a dangerous thing and you did read me as scum in NotV. But seeing as you attacked me on the basis of "he knows my meta" (ignoring that while talking to me you talked about changing up your scum meta in the future) and "lol scumslip" as opposed to something that would make sense like "paranoia," I'm inclined to see all this as posturing.

Like, I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.
The fact that Conq is using lazy points like this is just further demonstrating his current arrogance.
The point is that you were either being facetious (in which case why are you making a joke vote so late in the day) or you were faking conviction because I still cannot see how that could be interpreted as a slip. Why don't we ask the crowd of players here how many people think that could be remotely seen as a slip as opposed to a miswording? It would be like saying Serela forgetting who he was voting was a slip on his part. That fact that you apparently think that this is supposed to demonstrate my "current arrogance" is I suspect a statement designed to try to piss me off because the logic doesn't flow and I know you're a logical person.

And yet, despite making this point, Conq tried to say that my not trying hard is related to myself being scummy.
X
Seeing as I never said anything of the sort...well yeah, I think you're just making stuff up at this point.

It basically all culminates in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061428.html#msg1061428) anyway, where Conq basically just claims I'm doing something with absolutely nothing to back himself up because he feels that he doesn't need it since I'm being super lazy.
I've backed up my points, however much you want to deny them. You disagree? Point it out and then we'll see how it stands up in front of everyone instead of having you make these insinuations.

After that, we have nothing but pokes and prods on other people again. :derp:
Precisely, exactly what I do in the game of mafia, thanks for telling everyone Dormio.  :) What was the point of this? Are you trying to insinuate that I have no scumreads or that I'm not pushing scum? Except you can't do that because it's not true?

Your move, Dormio.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 12, 2014, 11:50:41 PM
eh, regarding some recent stuff...
where is nnr , seriously

o4rfish you dont argue for policy lynches at such a time,  not when theres 2/3 of an actual day left. moreover, you sheeping for the sake of sheep is also baffling , theres the aforementioned dormio and nnr and whoever can be argued for a lynch at your time of posting and i simply do not understand why wont you just point out how null they are yourself and vore.

to dormio v conq, since you guys are not finished i will wait. but i buy dormino scum more at this point.a

i still dont understand serela and cheese but i guess i dont have a say about them so meh

i will gladly hammer whoever that is nnr, oarfish and dormio at this point
irl seeya
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 12, 2014, 11:51:47 PM
Everybody loves quote wars.

Oh no, I remember these perfectly. The only thing I was trying to do was get some discussion going and possibly a read on Cheez8 based on his response, because his initial vote on DNA slightly pinged me (why vote DNA while agreeing that Dormio is hated) so I wanted to poke around a little. To paint this as me trying to "look like an active contributor" is laughable because guess what? I was trying to get something started. Am I lording that around like it means you should townread me for me? No, absolutely not. I dropped the line completely because I didn't get anything from it and my next posts were about other stuff.
The sheer volume of fluff makes me think otherwise.

Bringing me to Dormio's next point.Yes, absolutely. And? This has always been an integral part of my towngame, and you picking this game to suddenly pick it out and painting it as the scummiest of things to do is completely laughable? I question people. I don't try to piss off people unless they piss me off first, because mafia is a game I like to enjoy, not scream in.
The last sentiment here is blasphemy.
Anyway, I dunno about you, but I'm pretty sure I've been pretty paranoid about people making lots of weak pokes in the early game in the past so you picking this game to suddenly pick it out and painting it as the scummiest of things to do is completely laughable?

Compared to your activity? Yeah, yeah I do, and anyone can see this. And I didn't actually say that either, so that's another point for me.
So I like how you just outright stated it here as opposed to implying it before, and then have the gall to say that you didn't say it.

If you actually read that post instead of skimming it you'd see that the "meta" point was just a tack-on. The part I was voting for you was the complacency about the Serela vote.
because even if Dormio is too busy playing around with his new computer, I see this post:as Dormio taking advantage of Serela not making any sense to just stick to him. Like I'm pretty sure Dormio as town here would give us something other than just "oh hey sup btw I'll just keep my Serela vote here."
I don't know about you, but this looks like more than just a tack-on to me.

In fact, the wording in that sentence reflects that when people usually list two things, they then talk about "former" before the "latter" and I just mixed up the two words. I still don't see how you could see this in any way as a slip. Are you saying I meant to say that Dormio!scum thinks people are scummy and Dormio!town likes to tunnel people just because?
Yes, actually.

Re: trying hard. Yes. However, and this is the crux of the whole meta argument here, if you're busy doing schoolwork or games or hats or whatever, then your activity in mafia won't really matter that much and what shows is the attitude you bring to the game. It's not like you don't lurk as scum, it's just that you enjoy scum better because you have a gameplan.
And yet you mentioned nothing about my attitude?
Alright then.

Given that I was literally running out the door and stated as such that I need to leave in that post, this attack is along the lines of Dormio attacking NNR for being conveniently absent from the thread in Mirai Nikki when NNR lost his internet access. Seriously. But since I actually have the time to sit down and explain now...
Well, how am I meant to know that?
I do like how you frame this as though I've done a terrible thing though, since I am clearly at fault for you having not given an explanation.

Agreed, absolutes are a dangerous thing and you did read me as scum in NotV. But seeing as you attacked me on the basis of "he knows my meta" (ignoring that while talking to me you talked about changing up your scum meta in the future) and "lol scumslip" as opposed to something that would make sense like "paranoia," I'm inclined to see all this as posturing.
I don't really think that there's anything I can really respond to in this sentence.
I mean, I don't really get the difference here so whatever, if you feel like explaining it in some more depth for me I'd appreciate that.

The point is that you were either being facetious (in which case why are you making a joke vote so late in the day) or you were faking conviction because I still cannot see how that could be interpreted as a slip. Why don't we ask the crowd of players here how many people think that could be remotely seen as a slip as opposed to a miswording? It would be like saying Serela forgetting who he was voting was a slip on his part. That fact that you apparently think that this is supposed to demonstrate my "current arrogance" is I suspect a statement designed to try to piss me off because the logic doesn't flow and I know you're a logical person.
The logic flowed in my mind, and still does, and that's all that matters to me.

X
Seeing as I never said anything of the sort...well yeah, I think you're just making stuff up at this point.
Like I'm pretty sure Dormio as town here would give us something other than just "oh hey sup btw I'll just keep my Serela vote here."
I dunno about you, but this looks like it to me.

I've backed up my points, however much you want to deny them. You disagree? Point it out and then we'll see how it stands up in front of everyone instead of having you make these insinuations.
:)

Precisely, exactly what I do in the game of mafia, thanks for telling everyone Dormio.  :) What was the point of this? Are you trying to insinuate that I have no scumreads or that I'm not pushing scum? Except you can't do that because it's not true?
I'm trying to say that what you're doing does little more than generate mild interest in you that isn't likely to go anywhere which keeps you in the back of the minds of various people without actually having really done anything which I think is a great position for scum to be in.

Your move, Dormio.
Your move, Conqadour.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 12:12:33 AM
The sheer volume of fluff makes me think otherwise.
No fluff at all. I said a few sentences, and then dropped them later completely because I didn't get anything out of them. The only reason we're talking about it is because you brought it up because?

Anyway, I dunno about you, but I'm pretty sure I've been pretty paranoid about people making lots of weak pokes in the early game in the past so you picking this game to suddenly pick it out and painting it as the scummiest of things to do is completely laughable?
This is just going to go in circles forever. Yeah, people making weak pokes in the game and not doing anything else is scummy, but how am I doing that, and especially given the context of what you're pointing out, which is in the early part of D1, the worst day of mafia to play on? (this is why replacements are superior)

So I like how you just outright stated it here as opposed to implying it before, and then have the gall to say that you didn't say it.
Hey man, if I didn't say it, I didn't say it. But what's the relevance of this anyways?

I don't know about you, but this looks like more than just a tack-on to me.
I dunno about you, but I dunno about you thinking that looks more than just a tack-on. Since you're saying differently, ball's in your court. How is that so?

Yes, actually.
::) This is why I think this push of yours is fake. Since when have I ever described your play like that? You know I've stated differently in the past.

And yet you mentioned nothing about my attitude?
Alright then.
Quote
I see this post as Dormio taking advantage of Serela not making any sense to just stick to him.
This is what I was talking about. It's complacency with the status quo as opposed to, you know, actually looking for scum.

Well, how am I meant to know that?
I do like how you frame this as though I've done a terrible thing though, since I am clearly at fault for you having not given an explanation.
Given that I explicitly said I had to go in the post, um, by reading it? The important thing is this. What's your reaction to that post now that you know that? The fact that there's absolutely no reevaluation from you after your supposed discovery of this fact is incredibly suspect.

I don't really think that there's anything I can really respond to in this sentence.
I mean, I don't really get the difference here so whatever, if you feel like explaining it in some more depth for me I'd appreciate that.
I'm saying you're arguing that I'm scum based on shitty reasoning that I think is beyond you as town. Capiche?
The logic flowed in my mind, and still does, and that's all that matters to me.
Sugoi monogatari, onii-chan.
I dunno about you, but this looks like it to me.
Nope. I wasn't referring to your lack of activity there, but the complacency with the Serela vote for completely unexplained and mysterious reasons. See above.
:)
:3
I'm trying to say that what you're doing does little more than generate mild interest in you that isn't likely to go anywhere which keeps you in the back of the minds of various people without actually having really done anything which I think is a great position for scum to be in.
...Which is a great position for scum to be in, true. It's also a great position for town to be in. This is the equivalent of saying that since I'm a human being I must be a female, ignoring that both males and females can be human.

A toi, Dormio.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 13, 2014, 12:26:49 AM
No fluff at all. I said a few sentences, and then dropped them later completely because I didn't get anything out of them. The only reason we're talking about it is because you brought it up because?
Because I see it as scummy. This isn't going to go anywhere like this.

This is just going to go in circles forever. Yeah, people making weak pokes in the game and not doing anything else is scummy, but how am I doing that, and especially given the context of what you're pointing out, which is in the early part of D1, the worst day of mafia to play on? (this is why replacements are superior)
Because I still don't like your Cheez8 questioning and think it was a weak and lazy attempt to look productive, don't think the poking of Shadoweh is meaningful, and others.

Hey man, if I didn't say it, I didn't say it. But what's the relevance of this anyways?
Just adding to the whole arrogance thing.

I dunno about you, but I dunno about you thinking that looks more than just a tack-on. Since you're saying differently, ball's in your court. How is that so?
I don't know about you, but to me it looks like you saying that I would give more than "lol selery" is the main point.

::) This is why I think this push of yours is fake. Since when have I ever described your play like that? You know I've stated differently in the past.
You have? I don't recall.

This is what I was talking about. It's complacency with the status quo as opposed to, you know, actually looking for scum.
What if Serela is scum?!

Given that I explicitly said I had to go in the post, um, by reading it? The important thing is this. What's your reaction to that post now that you know that? The fact that there's absolutely no reevaluation from you after your supposed discovery of this fact is incredibly suspect.
Did you?
Oh, I actually parsed that differently.
I read it as you saying that you're just going to ignore SP for the time being to respond to me.
Re-evaluation comes later because right now I'm just responding to the points you're giving me because I'm trying to get $$$.

I'm saying you're arguing that I'm scum based on shitty reasoning that I think is beyond you as town. Capiche?
Okay then.

Sugoi monogatari, onii-chan.
Isn't it?

I wasn't referring to your lack of activity there, but the complacency with the Serela vote for completely unexplained and mysterious reasons. See above.:3
Well see above for me too or something.

...Which is a great position for scum to be in, true. It's also a great position for town to be in. This is the equivalent of saying that since I'm a human being I must be a female, ignoring that both males and females can be human.
I didn't know you were a girl!
I think it's more beneficial for scum so whatever.

A toi, Dormio.
A toi, Conquiche.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 12:55:08 AM
Quote
Because I see it as scummy. This isn't going to go anywhere like this.
Good for you? It's not scummy though. Seriously, do you want me to bring up past examples of me doing stuff like that as town? Or would that be a useless venture because you'd keep harping on it regardless?
Quote
Because I still don't like your Cheez8 questioning and think it was a weak and lazy attempt to look productive, don't think the poking of Shadoweh is meaningful, and others.
If we're going to use meta, I don't do "weak questioning" as scum. I just wait until people make dumb mistakes and just pounce on them without attempting to really dig in there. The poking of Shadoweh isn't meant to mean anything than to get her to post in a game she was supposedly pumped to sign up for. You're assigning motivations to my questioning like I'm a manipulative bastard carefully controlling my public image when I'm just asking people questions. What's up with that?
Quote
Just adding to the whole arrogance thing.
Facts are facts no matter how much you spin them.
Quote
I don't know about you, but to me it looks like you saying that I would give more than "lol selery" is the main point.
Well, it's not, and despite how you keep insisting it is, it still isn't (not to mention the main point always goes before the side points in writing but whatever). But how's this? Now that I've outright stated that my reason for suspecting you was not based on meta, what do you think about your statement that after posting mostly using logic I made a case on you solely through "meta?"
Quote
You have? I don't recall.
Dude, I've talked to you enough about mafia that I don't believe that you believe that I believe that you tunnel on people as town just for the heck of it. If you're actually telling the truth here, what the fuck Dormio.
Quote
What if Serela is scum?!
Given the way your approached your Serela vote and stated reasoning that's like NNR policy voting DNA and saying "but what if DNA is scum????" Also if Serela is scum, then you jumped off scum to attack town for ??? and I either hate you or want to lynch you with fire, depending.
Quote
Did you?
Oh, I actually parsed that differently.
I read it as you saying that you're just going to ignore SP for the time being to respond to me.
Re-evaluation comes later because right now I'm just responding to the points you're giving me because I'm trying to get $$$.
Dormio, I'm not you, I don't ignore people, even when they piss me off I spend the time to yell at them until the mods warn me to back off or eat modkill. :colbert:
Deadline is in less than half a day. Waiting for "re-evaluation" when you don't have much else on the table is >_>.
Quote
I didn't know you were a girl!
I think it's more beneficial for scum so whatever.
Only on the internet. And I'm still town, so whatever? Lurking is beneficial to scum but are all lurkers scum?

Now I'm just annoyed.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 12:57:17 AM
SP I'm going to dissect your vote on Dan later but I have to go right now and:
Actually I'm looking at this again to see how you could have parsed it differently and I'm not seeing it. >_>
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 13, 2014, 01:35:16 AM
Quote
Serela, sky paladin isn't voting for you on the "lying" thing anymore since I think it became pretty clear you just mixed up your words or whatever.
No, he told me (again?) to stop lying after my actual not-messed-up post
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 02:09:59 AM
You're assigning motivations to my questioning like I'm a manipulative bastard carefully controlling my public image when I'm just asking people questions.
The thing is, I can actually kind of see you being a good enough player to control your image almost perfectly as scum. (probably because you did so in the very first game I saw here)

On the other hand I think I've come to the conclusion that asking questions really probably isn't too incriminating, and even though I'm going back and forth on this at roughly the same rate you two are posting I'm pretty sure I still don't like Dormio. "What if Serela is scum" is... well, a pretty bad argument for insisting on voting someone. I don't know if Dormio would try more as town or as scum and I honestly don't care, because in the parts of the debate that aren't drowning in meta, Dormio is doing a pretty bad job at justifying his actions. I'm a little happier about my vote now.

It is kind of getting hard to keep track of whether or not you guys have actually said the things you're claiming were said or not said though.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 13, 2014, 02:43:14 AM
I'm awake! And holy shit these votecounts do not look good. I'm sure that's a very interesting wall argument you and Dormio are doing, Conq, and it's totally not something I've done with Dormio-Town in the past, but Dormio is the only wagon at 4 votes thanks to his helper and everyone else is spread like a bucket of lazy? With 8 hours left, there should be something by now if he's scum. (unless I'm his partner and slept through him getting wagoned of course, oh my!) I see DABC creeping in seeing if he can sneak a vote on Dormio and leave, let's get some actual competition going here.

##Vote: Darkninjaabc
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 03:06:02 AM
No, he told me (again?) to stop lying after my actual not-messed-up post
Oh, I missed that. Well, now I'm just confused. Will reread him again in a bit.

With 8 hours left, there should be something by now if he's scum.
I hate you. :V Dormio's also totally capable of wall wars as scum; I'm mostly waiting for his reaction now I guess.

I guess I'll have to go and actually read that game where darkninja was scum to see if I can get a better read on that slot if he's the other major candidate.

Also @mod, are we going to get a modkill/replacement for NNR or what?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 13, 2014, 03:07:21 AM
I'm sorry, I've learned through practice that hating Dormio very much doesn't make him scum :<
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 03:24:47 AM
Yeah sorry Shadoweh, I reread Darkninja and I just don't know what to think of him. :V

In the interest of shaking things up, I'm going to
##Unvote
##Vote: Sky_Paladin

based on this post
Cut by Serela. 

What is the ACTUAL REASON you are voting for me?

Please drop the not sure what you are doing act and stop lying.

If Dormio doesn't produce something satisfactory by the time I go to sleep I'm pushing for him over darkninja for making me join this game and then lurking it out while I suffer here. B)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 03:26:21 AM
NNR is another possibility if he's not getting modkilled or whatever.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 13, 2014, 04:34:03 AM
7 hours to deadline...

I want to go to sleep but I won't be able to change my vote again afterwords >_>;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 04:41:34 AM
Dormio (3): Fortress Populous, ActionDan, Cheez
Darkninjaabc (3): NNR; O4rfish, Shadoweh
NNR (2): SB, Zakeri
Sky_Paladin (2): Serela, Conq
Serela (1): CF7
Conq (1): Dormio
Cheez8 (1): Darkninjaabc
ActionDan (1): Sky_Paladin

approximate votecount

lol 7 needed to lynch and the deadline in the middle of american night.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: BigBangMeteor on January 13, 2014, 04:44:36 AM
Votecount of the Devastating DEATH TRAP

Dormio (3): Fortress Populous; ActionDan; Cheez8
Darkninjaabc (3): NNR; O4rfish; Shadoweh
Serela (1): CF7
Conq (1): Dormio
Cheez8 (1): Darkninjaabc
NNR (2): SB, Zakeri
Sky_Paladin (2): Serela; Conq
ActionDan (1): Sky_Paladin

Not Voting (0): No-one ^_^

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140113T1130&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1

6 hours 45 mins remaining, approximately. There is a possibility that neither I nor Raikaria will be here for deadline. If hammer/deadline occurs, shut up even if neither of us are here to say it.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 13, 2014, 04:48:35 AM
yeah this is p.great >_>;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 04:50:22 AM
Hey Dormio, I'm waiting.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 05:17:50 AM
I am not posting long walls of stuff because I am not quoting and is using a phone.

While that excuse may be lame its most certainly true, if you would still opt to outright ignore me then please.

The thing is I dont really parse what's exactly wrong with me, I am pointing fingers at Shadow and Oarfish here specifically, for if anything they lurked relatively more, if not similar hard as I do, while I actually attempted to ''sneak in'' (as Shadow would like to put it in all his biased glory) some content. He just dumped a copy of oarfish's lazy case and went bam, I do not understand how those two, who are also coincendentally on my wagon, has exactly the same carbon copied cases fail to have fingers pointed at them.

cheez has been disappearing forever already, I do not understand.

Serela is null, I really don't see a reason to wagon him.

Folks, let's face the fact, we can either consume our one-shot no-lynch, elsewise its only really possible to coordinate a quickwagon on either me or dormio. I am most certainly town, and the only reason for my lynch is that my ragepost is insulting, which is an ad hominim attack used by shadow/oar that doesn't really come to the conclusion ''he's scummy''. If anything, their current case on me is but saying ''Well he's a bad player let's policy him''.

But there's dormio guys, we have actual edvidence that he's scum.

Firstly, look at his post record, he has been lurking for the majority of mid-D1, and only confronted directly with conq when he was genuinely threatened by votes. Moreover, he even turned his lurking and short posts against conq himself by stating that ''his posts are filled with useless fluff'', seemingly justifying him not saying much minus his quote walls in reality with minimal effort while giving a town impression.

Secondly, look at his content, as I have mentioned in my first point, dormio is but defensively poking at everything conq did, which is hilarious in hindsight because that's exactly what dormio accused conq for doing in the first place (slightly jabbing each player)to ''rack up towncred''. Dormio himself did never go to justify his lack of effort nor explain for the sake of us. But instead, he unreasonably fit in whatever that could fit and tossed them at conq. He is but deviously distracting us from the status quo, instead of helping us clarify what actually happened in his own damn mind.

Thirdly, let's check dormio's position, he's hated, sure, but there's little suspicion aside from that being leaded by conq and presently me also. In my second point I stated dormio was attacking conq and distracting us from deciding on a wagon instead of helping us see the status quo, but that, at his time of posting, was entirely uncessary and a waste of time. This quote war is obviously attention-demanding and dormio completely took advantage of that to flail with conq against eachother so that his scumbuddies can drive a turbolynch on me when day closes, exactly what's happening now guys.

Scumteam is oarfish/shadoweh/dormio

We can lynch dormio, so do it, please.

##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 13, 2014, 05:21:15 AM
calling scumteams in a not-mostly-kidding kind of matter in d1 is pretty silly

I'm too tired to think properly at this point, though, in any case >_> Debating which wagon I should shift onto because of impending deadline.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 05:25:18 AM
Oh, and clarifications on my third point because I never proofread it. :V

Thrid point means dormio is threatened, but its nowhere near enough to justify flailing at conq just to shift attention and to convince everyone him should be lynched instead at that point. What he could have done with that time was actually to cooperate with conq and clarify to us he's town, and tell us his views on the big picture, et cetera. What he should have done as an experienced player and what he actually did then are diverging and unhelpful as town. Dormio knows full well the value of time and always enjoys advocating for town quicklynches and turbowagons. (Dude justice juice mafia scum qt hammer wall). And that's precisely what he's doing right now, wasting our time, hence it follows that the action is deliberate and therefore scummy.

Even worse, Dormio himself acknowledged the term ''quote wars'' and gladly accepted conq's challange, this shows that he's actually AWARE of what he did, he's AWARE of how time-consuming a quote wars imply and he's willingly doing it.

Good enough, people?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 05:31:50 AM
And I apologize to cheez, I have been too concentrated on the quote wars and neglected to acknowledge your little blurb displaying your suspicion to conq, but still with your vote on dormio without any apparant reason given to how did you otherwise come to the conclusion dormio is scum without trusting conq's words, or something like that. I feel its hard to conclude a stance from your blurb because most of it is just you waffling on either side of the argument without your own thoughts, and vaguely stating you are ''okay with where this direction is heading''.

This confuses me to no end however, for now that I put it in words I realized the likeliness that if cheez is scum from such, then dormio must be town. Then what leaves conq? Conq is town or scum? Please give me a moment to read this through.

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 05:34:19 AM
And I am still absolutely okay with lynching oarfish, serela, nnr, shadoweh or dan so saying. They lurking means that they are never going to be a big loss to us. In fact, if anything their deaths are but going to tell us more than they will compared to when they are alive.

I am advocating the lynch on dormio because I feel that its the only possible option for a lynch given the tight deadline and the existing wagons. Moreover, it is undeniable that the quote wars did much to convince me dormio is scum. Can you alive guys posts something real quick so we can like coordinate something? I am leaving in ten minutes.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 05:37:37 AM
Dormio should claim.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 05:39:34 AM
Darkninja, what do you think about Sky?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 05:39:40 AM
If I am dormio I would play dumb and completely ignore you while going offline and cross my fingers for the best.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 13, 2014, 05:40:00 AM
##unvote
##Vote Sky Paladin
##proxy vote to conq

that may or may not work.

I'll stay up for a few hours or so
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 05:40:22 AM
And I never truly read sky, he's null, but obviously he's never going to be a lynch candidate now so what's the point?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 05:46:42 AM
Conq are you still hanging in there

and dan please say something more


Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 05:49:58 AM
I will be here for a few more hours before I go to sleep.

The longer I wait without Dormio coming in to post, the more I think he's stalling, but he could just be busy, so I don't know. I'm waiting for a claim to help my decision, but it's getting to the point where it might be too little too late barring something very useful or confirmable.

I would rather lynch Dormio over darkninja at this stage.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 05:50:34 AM
cheez has been disappearing forever already, I do not understand.
D1s are still hard for me and they're harder still when looking at a computer screen for too long makes the back of my eyes hurt. Also I decided I should probably come to a conclusion on the Conq-Dormio debate before interrupting the Conq-Dormio debate, because otherwise I'd just be my usual waffley self and it wouldn't help anything.

Anyway yeah it's nice to see Dormio getting the votes he probably needs. He's the strongest scumread I have so far (okay, the only scumread, but I'm somewhat comfortable sticking with him) and I can't say the same about any of the other possible lynches. Everything Darkie has said so far just registers null for me, and the things NNR and Paladin have said just leave me waffling between "maybe slightly scummy" and null.

Cut by Darkie-
And I apologize to cheez, I have been too concentrated on the quote wars and neglected to acknowledge your little blurb displaying your suspicion to conq,
Hooray!
but still with your vote on dormio without any apparant reason given to how did you otherwise come to the conclusion dormio is scum without trusting conq's words, or something like that.
um
Okay, I admit it started as kind of a gut read that I didn't think too much of as I read Dormio's few posts earlier in the day, but by the end of the big debate with Conq, I realized Dormio failed to justify anything he did and it basically assured me that my gut was right. I do actually trust Conq, or at least his logic, but I'm trying to take what he says with a grain of salt just in case.

Cut a bunch more. Dang it, Dan, you are being less helpful than NNR right now. Please say something.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 05:51:15 AM
And yes Dan, it would be nice for you to give some input in this because there are too few people talking and I could use another voice.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 05:53:05 AM
Cheez, why do you specifically ignore the part where I nailed your blurb contains much waffling but little stance.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 05:54:30 AM
Off now bb later in 2 hours.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 13, 2014, 05:56:44 AM
you have my vote conq.   Your own voice counts for 2 people
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 13, 2014, 06:01:28 AM
did I ever mention that Oarfish was practically confirmed town since his first post?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 06:05:27 AM
you have my vote conq.   Your own voice counts for 2 people
Incoming multiple personalities.

did I ever mention that Oarfish was practically confirmed town since his first post?
Oh hey, I think you're probably right about that. Missed that nuance the first time round.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 06:06:57 AM
actually, oarfish seems to be familiar with dwarf fortress, so it doesn't mean as much. >_>

I think he's having too much fun for newbie scum though. Especially with that post he translated out of dwarf lingoese.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 13, 2014, 06:07:48 AM
If I were Dormio I would be asleep and/or in school right now.
If you're seriously going to hold the lynch hostage like this when no one is here fine but I don't think Mr. P is swingable.

##Vote: Sky Paladin
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 13, 2014, 06:08:20 AM
##Unvote
##Vote: Sky Paladin

Whoops just remembered this isn't MS
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 06:08:44 AM
Cheez, why do you specifically ignore the part where I nailed your blurb contains much waffling but little stance.
Oh, sorry. I guess it's because I've been waffling so much during these games that I've just come to terms with it and kind of forgot that it meant anything.

...Also because I'm not entirely sure that there was any waffling in the post of mine that you said had waffling in it. If there was, then I've grown so used to waffling that my standards for what counts as "waffling" have actually risen as a result. Sheesh.

Cut by Dan. No, you never mentioned that. You also never mentioned anything else. You also never mentioned why you think that. Thanks, Conq.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 06:10:51 AM
If I were Dormio I would be asleep and/or in school right now.
If you're seriously going to hold the lynch hostage like this when no one is here fine but I don't think Mr. P is swingable.

##Vote: Sky Paladin

I don't want to hold the lynch hostage. :( I just want people's input.

Also, I'm pretty sure Dormio not asleep or at school right now, but he could be playing vidya games.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 06:13:33 AM
Oh due to unexpected circumstances I am back on.

Throw me more stuff people
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 06:16:49 AM
Dormio (3): Fortress Populous; Cheez8; Darkninjaabc
Sky_Paladin (4): Serela; Conq; ActionDan; Shadoweh
Darkninjaabc (2): NNR; O4rfish
NNR (2): SB, Zakeri
Serela (1): CF7
Conq (1): Dormio
ActionDan (1): Sky_Paladin


If Sky is around I want him to explain what's so offensive around Dan's posting in this game compared to last game where he went so far as to vote someone for attacking Dan.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 06:19:39 AM
Actually, I'm pretty sure Dormio is around here, if not expressly reading the mafia forums. But he gets email notifications, so he knows there's activity here. DORMIO GET IN HERE OR IM SWITCHING TO YOU BECAUSE IM SLEEPING IN LIKE AN HOUR.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 06:22:04 AM
Actually, I'm probably being too nice to Dormio just because I don't want to be too mean.
##Unvote
##Vote Dormio

If anyone else here had pulled what Dormio had done in this game I would have already turbolynched them.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 06:26:39 AM
Oh you~

I think the scum team is Serela, ActionDan, and Conqueror.  Watch me die tonight~

NOW I HAVE TO PERSUADE YOU TO LISTEN SOMEHOW. 

So let's start with the easy one. 

Serela --

Serela's back and forth about her reason for voting for CF7 (which turned out to be accidentally voting for me but then she changed her story and said she meant to vote for CF7 all along but somehow got confused) culminates in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061385.html#msg1061385) and ends up as a vote for me, because:

"Oh jeez, we have to consolidate already. I'd be okay with lynching any of Dormio/CF7/Skypal and NNR I wouldn't complain too much about- but I suppose I'd pick SkyPal as the bigger priority"

Trying to force a consolidate when there's over half a day left in the phase is scummy.  Trying to consolidate on to somebody specifically because there was a wagon isn't so bad, except there were no votes for me at this stage and there was no wagon. 
Serela's conclusion is wrong and she has lied about her reasoning and motivation throughout this entire game.  At some point you have to wake up ask can somebody consistently get it wrong and then blame lack of sleep or is there an actual legitimate scumslip in there.  If anybody else did it you'd string them up without a second thought.  This was an OMGUS vote.

"I don't really know how to explain to SkyPaladin any clearer why I'm voting for him, because I thought I already made it pretty clear >_>; "Stop lying" is a blatant and unwarranted attack on my character without actually addressing anything, as well. It only makes me want to vote him more."

If it is pretty clear then it should be easy for you to quote your own post to highlight where and why.  Handwaving arguments and stalling tactics without posting results is scummy behaviour

Quote
I'm too tired to think properly at this point, though, in any case >_> Debating which wagon I should shift onto because of impending deadline.
  What's the point in 'debating' when your trying to play off against other players that you are incapable of making a rational decision?  Town should vote for the people they think they are scum, not pick the most popular wagon

Guys, Serela is scum. 

***

Action and and Conq next. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 06:27:05 AM
Also, in the event we're lynching Dormio, I'd like to bring him up to 8 votes, just in case there are shenanigans.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 13, 2014, 06:28:39 AM
##unvote
##vote Dormio
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 06:29:06 AM
I told you I was away for a couple of hours, so of course they all vote for the guy who was afk :P  That's so lame. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: ActionDan on January 13, 2014, 06:31:13 AM
tough shit
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 13, 2014, 06:31:48 AM
Just woke up. Noticed walls of text and an actual discussion. *Overjoyed.* Will post and vote after reading stuff.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 06:32:54 AM
And now those three will try to push for Dormio, no?

Conqueror's spent the whole game poking people trying to get a weakness so he can drill 'em.  Why would he go after players like Oarfish and leave ActionDan alone?  Oarfish was actually voting for Dan at the time, until Conqueror poked him.  Once the vote was gone, Conqueror left him alone. 

It's clearly...Conqueror and Action Dan working together.  I wish I had three votes.  I'd vote you all. 

If there's a detective, please check one of those two tonight.  If there's a medic, please cover me.  Pretty sure I'm dead otherwise. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 06:33:37 AM
And Sky cuts me with a post that makes me want to switch back.

Quote
Trying to force a consolidate when there's over half a day left in the phase is scummy.
Given how disorganized this town is, no. I've had to scream and kick for a Dormio lynch and I only have about 4 interested parties and it's a few hours to deadline. What's your justification for saying the Serela has been lying about motivation the entire game? Summarizing Serela's counterarguments as handwaving arguments and stalling tactics doesn't work because Serela hasn't been doing that in your case?

If it is pretty clear then it should be easy for you to quote your own post to highlight where and why.
Highlight where Serela did what you were talking about, please.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 06:36:13 AM
Conqueror's spent the whole game poking people trying to get a weakness so he can drill 'em.  Why would he go after players like Oarfish and leave ActionDan alone?  Oarfish was actually voting for Dan at the time, until Conqueror poked him.  Once the vote was gone, Conqueror left him alone. 

It's clearly...Conqueror and Action Dan working together.  I wish I had three votes.  I'd vote you all. 

If there's a detective, please check one of those two tonight.  If there's a medic, please cover me.  Pretty sure I'm dead otherwise.

Serious question, Sky. Do you have any proof of you making outrageous statements like this as town, where you confidently declare a scumteam on d1 and expect to be nightkilled? If you do, link me, because holy shit the logic in this is wow. When did I ever go after Oarfish? Point me out. It should be easy for you to do so, right?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 06:38:08 AM
##Unvote
##Vote: Sky_Paladin


Dormio, you suck, just fyi.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 06:40:48 AM
##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio


nvm just skimmed utena d1
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 06:44:42 AM
Conqueror
Quote
What's your justification for saying the Serela has been lying about motivation the entire game? Summarizing Serela's counterarguments as handwaving arguments and stalling tactics doesn't work because Serela hasn't been doing that in your case?

Because Serela keeps changing her story and contradicts herself in nearly every post. 

Quote
Highlight where Serela did what you were talking about, please.
I can't show you where Serela did it because I am saying SHE DIDN'T DO IT.  I am asking her to do it, because of "I don't really know how to explain to SkyPaladin any clearer why I'm voting for him, because I thought I already made it pretty clear >_>; "Stop lying" is a blatant and unwarranted attack on my character without actually addressing anything, as well. It only makes me want to vote him more." which I actually quoted in the post that you replied to.  The post in question is here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061404.html#msg1061404). 

Quote
Serious question, Sky. Do you have any proof of you making outrageous statements like this as town, where you confidently declare a scumteam on d1 and expect to be nightkilled?

I don't know, maybe the game we just played.  Or the game on Megatokyo where I died night 2, so yeah.  It's a pretty common occurrence.  That's why in #Megatokyo, voting for me is a valid scumslip.  I get killed pretty often early in the game. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 06:48:08 AM
This feels more like a miscommunication error than anything. I'll wait for Serela to reply to that though.

Sky, what do you think of Dormio independent of the false scenario where I am scum?

I don't think I want to lynch Sky anymore. I know, I'm fickle like that. Dormio lynch full speed ahead!
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 06:50:05 AM
I'll get to it (Dormio) after I've finished my Dan post. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 06:53:51 AM
I kind of have to admit here, it's pretty rare for people to catch the entire scum team D1 (and I have a feeling this is the case here as much as it is anywhere else.) Kind of sad to say, but I'm not exactly as confident in Paladin's theory as he is. I'm still more inclined to view Serela's confusion as a towntell than a scumtell.

I still think Dormio is the scummiest right now and it would be great if that lynch could happen. Dan is rising in the ranks pretty fast though, with how much he's not contributing (to the point of even expressly stating he will sheep player X and stop providing his own reasons), and it's kind of a shame he doesn't have more votes right now.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 06:56:15 AM
Such a shame~~  Then why not vote for ActionDan?  You can make a difference <3
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 06:57:33 AM
Hey, conq, but I actually feel that paladin is more suspicious in his crack theory. It is pretty obvious in AUS maf Sky tends to flip into incoherent theories madness when he's pressured as scum.

Moreover, its never really Sky's style to be so excessively bold. At this point I am very much willing to hammer sky.


Wanna do it?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 06:59:54 AM
Moreover, I feel that jumping on Serela is another lame scum attempt at wasting our time. It is pretty obvious where the wagons are actually leading, and it obviously has been agreed on that Serela is not to be bothered because she's Serela. To randomly pick on who can be the most fickle, confusing and difficult-to-turbolynch candidate is retarded considering Serela contradicting herself is almost normality as opposed to Sky Paladin balantly contradicting his priority lynches and to just jump on whoever on his so-called ''scumteam''
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 07:02:53 AM
Such a shame~~  Then why not vote for ActionDan?  You can make a difference <3

Dormio's basically just as scummy (maybe moreso) and he's over halfway there. Dan has one vote.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 07:04:30 AM
Quote
and it obviously has been agreed on that Serela is not to be bothered because she's Serela.

And what if when Serela is scum?  You're just gonna do nothing?  You going to give her a free pass forever because of who they are?  It's the same thing as people wanting to policy lynch you.  Is it really such a good strategy? 

Do you honestly think I am doing less for town than the players who are chronically afk or just sheeping others, like ActionDan?

Can you honestly vote for me thinking I'm scum? 

But you know, it's better to kill off the active players that are scumhunting - even if they aren't 100% right - than to go for the ones who are probably scum.  It was such a great strategy, you did it last game, and oh whoops, scum won. 

But hey sure let's do it again.  I'm sure it'll be different this time. 



Or maybe you could vote for somebody you actually think is scum.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 13, 2014, 07:08:08 AM
SkyPal I already gave you a slightly more thorough response directly after that post about my vote on you, which basically explains it to the fullest extent possible, even if I'm kind of stupidly roundabout in how I do it.

Quote
Trying to force a consolidate when there's over half a day left in the phase is scummy.
Half a day left is DEFINITELY when you need to be consolidating, especially when the last 7 hours are past midnight in US time. It's a miracle I'm even still awake at 2am right now. The current situation has been a good example that yes we did need to be consolidating by then, anyway.

Between Dorm/SkyPal I'd rather lynch SkyPal but dormio isn't half bad either so

Anyway, regardless of your meta on MegaTokyo SkyPaladin, you're not getting nk'd anytime soon this game unless roleshenanigans occur :V Viable lynch options who aren't seen as threats to the scumteam are super duper low priority nightkills and even if your reads are correct I'm sorry but I don't think the scum would perceive you as a big detriment. Besides I know that I'm town and I'm as far as I can tell your strongest read (I'm the most pushed at least) "Clearly Conq and ActionDan are working together" with no scumflips is really pretty reaching of an assumption to make anyway

the skypaladin cut is a pretty big misrepresentation of the situation as a whole because I don't -seriously- get free passes forever for being who I am and when I'm scum I usually get caught (or completely fall apart) pretty fast; but regardless, people not being interested in lynching me d1 doesn't mean "oh everyone is just going to townclear serela based off something stupid and let him coast through the game". Then it goes into AtE and other such shenanigans. It's pretty silly.

can we lynch him now :D
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 07:12:40 AM
conq do you want paladin dead now.


Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 07:12:55 AM
I am pretty goddamn sure I do want it.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 07:13:34 AM
And what if when Serela is scum?
Not this again.

I mean yeah at least you're actually following up and using it to make a point but still, I don't really think it's an argument that should fly. "What if X is scum" during D1 seems like something that could apply to any player because there's absolutely nothing to go by yet that could make anybody confirmed town.

Oh hey Serela's back. Cool.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 13, 2014, 07:13:53 AM
Hm... Major wagons are Dormio and Sky_P.
From Conq/Dormio quote walls i'd say Dormio is still scum. He started it. Coupled with his dissappearance and rather weird argument over complacency

Now about Sky_P.
His argument about Serela is weird and while originaly i thought Serela to be scummy, he's not my first pick. At least today.
That's why in #Megatokyo, voting for me is a valid scumslip.  I get killed pretty often early in the game. 
Actually for this alone i'd vote Sky_P. And i guess that would be scumslip and that would be bad. But worth a try. Because that's kind of scummy.

##Unvote
##Vote Dormio

Unless Dormio comes back and makes some valid points why we shouldn't lynch him, i'll prefer him over Sky_P.

Cut by Serela. Yeah, nightkilling popular wagons is kind of silly.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 07:15:01 AM
I had been pretty sure I didn't want Paladin dead until now but I might have to seriously reconsider that >_>
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 07:15:19 AM
##Unvote
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 07:16:45 AM
IF dormio flips town CF7 is confscum
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 07:17:45 AM
Since dormio is online even on motk as I just checked let's hear him say something
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 07:18:07 AM
I want to strangle Sky, sure, but I don't even know anymore. I have to go do something for a bit. I'll come back and maybe that will provide a fresh perspective on the game AND DORMIO WILL HAVE ACTUALLY POSTED HOLY SHIT DORMIO
Or maybe you could vote for somebody you actually think is scum.
Did he ever state anything to the contrary? Also, deadline is actually a thing, you know. It's not like we have the manpower to push 7 people onto a flashwagon with so many people absent.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 07:18:20 AM
If I still don't hear him defend himself sure let's go and hammer him
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 13, 2014, 07:19:49 AM
IF dormio flips town CF7 is confscum
Oh, really?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 07:21:32 AM
This D1 hiatus really simplify gamestate.

Firstly, even if we didn't reach a lynch, it is obvious who the scums are.

CF7 for one is a sore thumb for stating both lynches are delicious and then tryharding plopping his vote on dormio, my instincts are screaming that he's scum looking to save paladin's ass

Besides his record shows that he has been lurking and was actually online for ages.

Conq is obvtown hardtown.

Dan is whatever, so is serely.


If Dorm flips town sky is scum, if sky flips town dorm is scum, not that sure on the latter, but the former is almost most certainly true.

Gonna off bye bye.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 07:22:24 AM
Oh but wait before I go.

##Vote: Sky Paladin
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 07:22:48 AM
Uh, what?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 07:24:56 AM
Actually, hold on, where's a votecount?

Dormio (5): Fortress Populous; Cheez8; ActionDan; Conq; CF7
Sky_Paladin (3): Serela; Shadoweh; DNA
Darkninjaabc (2): NNR; O4rfish
NNR (2): SB, Zakeri
Conq (1): Dormio
ActionDan (1): Sky_Paladin

Okay yeah I am definitely sticking with Dormio for now.

Darkie is there some reason you are suddenly obsessed with hammers instead of lynches? It's kind of weird. And I still don't see why CF7 would be scum but I guess I'll just drop it for now.

Cut a couple times.
...Wait, what?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 07:27:15 AM
...I'm gonna eat some humble pie about this, I'm sure, but I don't think I can ignore that. 

##unvote
##vote DarkNinjaABC


Because he just did in one post three times what I accused Dan of doing :/
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 13, 2014, 07:32:26 AM
I should probably put it out there that I control the Fortress Populous vote.

##Unvote
##Vote DarkNinjaABC

Lining up lynches etc.
Still suspicious of Conqueror and Serela because I'm stubborn and haven't really reread yet.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 07:35:57 AM
...Huh. Sounds legit to me, though it doesn't really say anything about your alignment.

I don't know what to think about the two most feasible lynches both voting the third most feasible lynch option at roughly the same time. I'm pretty sure that's suspicious though.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 13, 2014, 07:36:08 AM
CF7 for one is a sore thumb for stating both lynches are delicious and then tryharding plopping his vote on dormio, my instincts are screaming that he's scum looking to save paladin's ass
Sorry where am i tryharding? Player makes quotewalls, makes some rather silly arguments and then suddenly disappear with deadline being close at is is.

If Dorm flips town sky is scum, if sky flips town dorm is scum, not that sure on the latter, but the former is almost most certainly true.
If Dormio flips town then Sky_P is scum, as every other player who voted him. Shouldn't that be Conq who actually pushed for Dormio.
I should probably put it out there that I control the Fortress Populous vote.
Curious, actually thought about this possibility. Doesn't make you any less scummy tho, since it can be used by scum as a defensive tactic too.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 07:38:21 AM
you are but panicking scum. sky pal. shat happened to your beloved scteaam guesses

and i am concerned with hammers because deadlines.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 07:39:29 AM
Quote
I don't know what to think about the two most feasible lynches both voting the third most feasible lynch option at roughly the same time. I'm pretty sure that's suspicious though.

Well, I guess if either of us were scum, we'd have voted for the other person by now.  I guess you could make an argument that we were both scum but if that's the case I would have thrown Dormio under a bus as soon as I saw Conq's walls.  Because when I am scum, I am a dick. 

I guess you just have to deduce we are both town. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 13, 2014, 07:41:10 AM
Ugh I probably don't have time for this. Haven't really been able to read these last few pages because most of page 5 onwards happened when I was asleep.

I'll see if my dad can drop me off or something.

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 07:41:25 AM
Quote
shat happened to your beloved scteaam guesses

I can be wrong. 

I hate it because I always put in 100% of my energy. 

And then when I am wrong it gives meaning to the expression 'eating crow'.  Blergh. 

Now I actually have to read that Dormio/Conqueror wall battle.  Ugh.  It was so easy when I thought I had the whole scumteam picked.  DAMN IT DNA. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 07:42:27 AM
Dormio, I still hate you for involving me in this game.
Well, I guess if either of us were scum, we'd have voted for the other person by now.  I guess you could make an argument that we were both scum but if that's the case I would have thrown Dormio under a bus as soon as I saw Conq's walls.  Because when I am scum, I am a dick. 

I guess you just have to deduce we are both town. 
Didn't you just say something along the lines of you ignoring your scumbuddies completely in An Untitled Mafia? Or was that in Utena and I'm remembering things wrong? It's getting late here. :V

I'll get to it (Dormio) after I've finished my Dan post.
I want this.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 07:44:19 AM
Hey Dormio, what do you think of Sky_Paladin?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 07:46:41 AM
Well, I wouldn't be too unhappy about any of these three lynches, but it's actually getting to the point where I'd be alright with voting any of them. I'm going to try really hard not to vote Darkie though because a lot of the things he's saying are still not actually outright scummy to me (this might just be because I can't tell the difference between his town logic bombs and his scum logic bombs though)

Cut by Paladin and others.
Well, I guess if either of us were scum, we'd have voted for the other person by now.  I guess you could make an argument that we were both scum but if that's the case I would have thrown Dormio under a bus as soon as I saw Conq's walls.  Because when I am scum, I am a dick. 

I guess you just have to deduce we are both town. 
I kind of think you're right but at the same time there's definitely room for either of you two to wriggle out of a lynch, so I could kind of see you not wanting to throw him under the bus yet, or being talked out of it or something. It's really not convincing enough for me to have to deduce either of you are town. Especially Dormio.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 07:48:08 AM
Actually Dormio, if the Fortress Populous vote is yours, is it permanent, and why did it start out on you?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 07:49:11 AM
Also Darkie you were saying "hammer" a lot earlier in the day too, I think. I dunno it was weird okay
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 07:51:06 AM
dorm is probably mindfucking with us. i can hardly care
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 07:54:18 AM
Oh, there's no doubt he's trying to mindfuck us. The question is whether he's town trolling us or scum trolling us.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 07:56:28 AM
If Dormio keeps the vote the entire game that's enough for me to say he's town or third party, I think. Full scum doublevoter is lolop. But if it's just a D1 doublevoter that's plausible as a scum role. Dormio won't be able to lie about this either (because it'll become obvious when he's asked to prove his extra vote) so I want details from him on this.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 13, 2014, 08:02:50 AM
So my dad's cool with it.

Time to actually read the thread that doubled in size since I went to sleep screw you all.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 08:06:22 AM
OKaaaay.  So Dormio vs Conqueror (to me) basically boils down to this:

Dormio voted for Serela early day 1 and didn't change his vote until quite recently.  Conqueror asked for an explanation for it and the explanation never eventuated; the closest was 'what if Serela is scum?'. 
I think that's more or less the core argument.  There was a lot of back and forth over other stuff that I think is not relevant (but if you disagree please point out where). 

I think it's not damning for either Conqueror or Dormio but it definitely reflects poorly on Dormio that he couldn't explain his vote.  It's the main reason that I picked up on voting for Serela myself, anyway (not properly explaining his vote). 

The difference is that I've personally been tangling with Serela so I feel more invested in this outcome.  Dormio vs Conqueror, well, I just can't see how Conqueror would fight so hard as scum, after spending most of the game poking random people, and picking on Dormio of all people.  There's easier prey to be had.  SO I think this is probably Conq = town.  Which sucks because I was only an hour ago wanting him dead. 

People who bought into that argument fairly early, though, are DarkninjaABC and ActionDan. 

Somewhere in the middle Shadoweh voted for me for no reasons so I wanna query that. 

So I'm hnnng.  I think Dormio handled it really poorly.  I think the vote on DarkNinjaABC was opportunity for him to escape. 

Let me wash the dishes some more and think about it.  I do think Dormio is more likely scum than Conq, now. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 13, 2014, 08:11:24 AM
Hey Dormio, what do you think of Sky_Paladin?
Quick post to say what I see is an attempt to create a dichotomy between you and I which is pretty bad actually.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:12:35 AM
Could you claim more details of your vote thingy real quick?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 13, 2014, 08:14:05 AM
It's my extra vote. It's also stuck on me for a while.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 13, 2014, 08:14:36 AM
conq being scum was ever a realistic option...?

Anyway the lynch is pretty much between Dormio and DNA at this point as far as I can tell. (people not voting major wagons switched to Darkie since the last votecount) As TEMPTING as it is to lynch Darkie, I pick Dormio in this argument.

Cut by IT'D BE COOL TO LYNCH SKYPAL TOO
Quote
People who bought into that argument fairly early, though, are DarkninjaABC and ActionDan.
This sentence is the first actual seems-more-likely-town-then-scum effort from SkyPal, but, it's outweighed by everything else.



Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 13, 2014, 08:15:48 AM
I should mention that I keep my extra vote in LYLO.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:18:35 AM

Needless to say if Dormio doesn't have the vote in LYLO insta lynch him. That said, scum doublevoter is hella OP, so...

##Unvote
##Vote: Sky_Paladin
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:18:53 AM
It's my extra vote. It's also stuck on me for a while.
when do you gain access to it?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 13, 2014, 08:21:10 AM
Okay. I'm a little confused. Can i see votecount atm. And
##unvote
for now. Need time to rethink all this.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 08:24:18 AM
I don't get a scum vibe from Dormio.  I read it all over him in fruit mafia, but chickened out in the last second. 

That said, I can't see a lynch of my main target - Serela - happening. 

Conq, why are you voting me over DNA?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 08:26:08 AM
...So what I'm gathering is that, as long as Dormio isn't bluffing about the Fortress Populous, he's probably not scum, since a second vote is pretty strong for a scum role (even if it can't be changed during the day, which is what I'm guessing.)
...Shoot.

Um, well... I guess that'd leave me to voting Paladin, since the prospect of lynching Darkie really doesn't sit too well with me now that I have, you know, actual reasons to distrust people.

Votecount? Lemme see...

Dormio (4): Fortress Populous; Cheez8; ActionDan; CF7
Sky_Paladin (4): Serela; Shadoweh; DNA; Conq
Darkninjaabc (4): NNR; O4rfish; Sky_Paladin; Dormio
NNR (2): SB, Zakeri

Woo, decisive. I think I'll vote in a couple moments because I kind of want to post this votecount with it at 4-4-4.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 08:27:47 AM
I'm so smart.

Actually since I have to fix this anyway lemme just ##Unvote and ##Vote: Paladin now

Dormio (2): Fortress Populous; ActionDan
Sky_Paladin (5): Serela; Shadoweh; DNA; Conq; Cheez8
Darkninjaabc (4): NNR; O4rfish; Sky_Paladin; Dormio
NNR (2): SB, Zakeri

Not Voting: CF7
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:27:53 AM
A lot of your recent emotional outbursts feel overblown, like you're putting on an act. By the way, what was the thing you said Darkninja did three times that Dan did, because I didn't understand what that was while reading.

Also, for once I can actually parse what Darkninja is saying and don't think he's spewing complete nonsense.

I will think about it some more before I go to sleep.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 13, 2014, 08:29:31 AM
CF7:Friendly reminder that deadline is in 3 hours.

Well, everyone could use that reminder, really.

If I wasn't too tired to reliably get it right I'd do the votecount too, but I -think- SkyPal is at 3 votes? It takes 8 to lynch. DNA and Dormio are at 4 each as well I think. Cut by actual votecounts, except... they're significant different from eachother. oh wait the second is the right one, okay. Oh we're likely lynching SkyPal cool! I REALLY have to sleep, though, so I'll have to see whether or not DNA counterwagon wins out when I wake up in the morning.

But yeah I agree that Darkie actually somewhat makes sense this game, at least after rvs ended.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 13, 2014, 08:29:52 AM
But yeah I agree that Darkie actually somewhat makes sense this game, at least after rvs ended.
this doesn't actually make him not-scum but it helps
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:30:05 AM
I don't get a scum vibe from Dormio.  I read it all over him in fruit mafia, but chickened out in the last second. 
Uhh I'm also a little confused about this given a few posts above you said this.
Quote
I think Dormio handled it really poorly.  I think the vote on DarkNinjaABC was opportunity for him to escape. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 13, 2014, 08:31:01 AM
scum doublevoter could exist. persuader is a predominantly scum role that exists and is basically better than doublevoter in almost every way. plus We Don't Know The Setup so the doublevote could exist to make up for low scum numbers or something else that we don't know.

i'm still reading through but yeah
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 08:34:11 AM
The thing was that DNA said 'if x is town then y is scum' which is the same sort of thing as Dan's 'one of Conq and Shadoweh is town'. 

Well that's every game in MoTK that's had me either lynched at day 1 or L-1. 

If I claim I'm dead or useless for the rest of the game. 

My scumpicks are Serela, SB, and ActionDan.  Look carefully at Shadoweh.  Towns gonna lose. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 08:34:53 AM
what the fuck serela. dormio and cf seven and sp are just pushing for me necause they have no hope of getting out of this mess
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 08:35:11 AM
I'm not gonna self hammer but SB is here so seeya guys <3
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:36:39 AM
Claim your role.

Quote
My scumpicks are Serela, SB, and ActionDan
What happened to Darkninja?

Sky, are you trolling me? :(
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 08:37:49 AM
Part of me still wants to believe that Dormio is scum anyway and he's just bluffing and the Fortress Populous is actually a vote that none of the players actually have direct control over, mafia or otherwise, but that's extremely far-fetched and probably falls into the category of RNG-related stuff that won't be in the game.

I'm still probably going to believe it in the depths of my heart though because this is the sort of crackpot theory that I just can't bring myself to abandon.

Cut by actual votecounts, except... they're significant different from eachother. oh wait the second is the right one, okay.
I hope so, anyway.  I don't trust myself too much either after forgetting to include the vote change from the person who requested the votecounts in the first place. >_>

Cut by Paladin. I can never seem to remember why any role would become useless simply if scum knew what it was. Does that actually happen sometimes?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:40:01 AM
For the large part, no. In fact, Sky, you might as well fullclaim if you're just going to walk away like that.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:40:53 AM
Because if it's confirmable, useless >>> dead. Being nightkilled >>>> lynched. Why would you not claim. >:(
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 08:41:14 AM
I'm not trolling. 

You guys always kill me for no reason at all. 

I'm dead if I claim and I'm dead if I don't claim.  Therefore, I'll save this small satisfaction for myself. 

I hope town can win but with the way you guys are ignoring all the afk and liars, I can't see how it will happen. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 08:41:51 AM
Well Conq,

That's a good point. 

Ok. 

I'm the vigilante :/
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 08:42:27 AM
And now, if scum aren't already voting for me, I shall die. 

Well it's been fun~  Well that's a lie.  This last 24 hours was horrible.  You guys are mean jerks :/
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 08:42:46 AM
Wait a minute

Paladin, we still need you to talk! Stick around! You're also not at L-1 so even if SB decided to vote for you immediately you still won't be lynched so no, you don't have an excuse to leave. Get back here and stuff!

Cut by Paladin twice

um

correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think a vigilante counts as useless even if scum know he exists
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:43:13 AM
If anyone quickhammers and you're town, it'd be a scumclaim on their part.

Fullclaim, anyway. Role, name, everything.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:43:37 AM
##unvote
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 13, 2014, 08:44:29 AM
"instead of claiming I'm the vig I'll just let everyone lynch me and let my power go wasted and not try to get town to lynch someone who might actually be scum over me"

literally worst logic, and the notion that scum would quickhammer him right now is also terrible because as Conq says they'd effectively be scumclaiming (so they'd never do it)

Anyway, that SURE IS CONFIRMABLE, so if it doesn't happen we can just lynch him tomorrow

wait who the fuck are we lynching then

right

##unvote ##Vote dormio
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 13, 2014, 08:44:48 AM
can we go back lynching dormio

or can we turbo nnr or something
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 08:45:15 AM
I am Urist McHammer.  I am (a/the) vigilante. 

I am a vig with no restrictions, unlimited night hits.  I can't hit during the day, implying the existence of a dayvig.  But it's not me. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 08:46:28 AM
Oh wait a minute (again)

##Unvote
##Vote: Darkie
I guess?

yeah between vigilantes being very helpful, the likelihood of at least one protective role existing in a game, and the lack of any other claimed roles to protect (aside from Dormio), I at least want to go back and make sure that if I'm voting for you I definitely absolutely think you're lying without a doubt.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 08:46:59 AM
Quote
Anyway, that SURE IS CONFIRMABLE, so if it doesn't happen we can just lynch him tomorrow

Pretty sure I'll be sabotaged/put on a bus/etc.  So this is just delaying the inevitable.  But maybe I'll get to taste sweet sweet justice and find the right target tonight. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 13, 2014, 08:48:11 AM
Definitely not a dayvig present if you're an unlimited nightvig >_>; That's already a huge amount of extra killing power if you lived a few nights.

Scum probably have a roleblocker but at least -trying- to let him shoot once seems worth the assumably minor cost of letting him live to d2. We don't know what powers town has after all

Cut by, yeah, probably, but as said may as well at least attempt
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 08:48:43 AM
Oh wait is a Dormio lynch actually feasible? Because that would mean a scum Dormio is actually feasible and from basically every post aside from the ones regarding his role, I'd say a scum Dormio is more than feasible. If that roleclaim doesn't actually stop him from being scum, I'm all for that.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 13, 2014, 08:49:57 AM
Serious question, Sky. Do you have any proof of you making outrageous statements like this as town, where you confidently declare a scumteam on d1 and expect to be nightkilled? If you do, link me, because holy shit the logic in this is wow. When did I ever go after Oarfish? Point me out. It should be easy for you to do so, right?

i'm pretty sure this came from me in justice juice when i threw out an rvs strong scumteam

then it turned out i got killed n1 and it turned out that it contained 2/3 scum

ANYWAY I'M CAUGHT UP

dormio basically only did enough shit to lynchdodge and then disappeared again, which is pretty much horrible

##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:51:50 AM
Unlimited nightvig is holy shit. I don't even know anymore.

For the record, I expect there to be only one death tomorrow. :V I don't know what that will mean for Sky's alignment though. I'm mildly suspicious of the rolename Sky claimed but I don't have any proof Rai is consistent, so. >_> I'm starting to ramble now and I should have gone to sleep hours ago.

Dormio lynch is feasible I think.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 08:52:21 AM
Sweet.

##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 08:53:22 AM
##unvote
##vote Dormio


Well fingers crossed.  Apparently I've been wrong about everything all game, so.  Why not now?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:53:37 AM
Dormio, now would be a good time for a fullclaim.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 13, 2014, 08:54:03 AM
I'm pretty sure we should just ignore flavour stuff since it said so in the op.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 08:54:24 AM
##unvote

Since we are all getting vote happy lets not accidentalhammer
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 08:56:14 AM
Quote
8: Flavor is delicious and thus you should eat it yourself and not share it with anyone. This includes character names. You?re all Urist.
Oh, right.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 13, 2014, 09:02:05 AM
Unlimited nightvig is holy shit. I don't even know anymore.
For the record, I expect there to be only one death tomorrow. :V I don't know what that will mean for Sky's alignment though. I'm mildly suspicious of the rolename Sky claimed but I don't have any proof Rai is consistent, so. >_> I'm starting to ramble now and I should have gone to sleep hours ago.
Dormio lynch is feasible I think.
His rolename is suspicious? Are you trying to get him modkilled? We're not even suposed to be claiming rolenames from the title. The first sentence is my thoughts though.
I still don't really want to lynch Dormio. How many people are here?

Cut by Pfft
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 13, 2014, 09:05:17 AM
Dormio (5): Fortress Populous; ActionDan; Serela; SB; Cheez8 (L-2)
Sky_Paladin (3): Shadoweh; DNA; Conq
Darkninjaabc (3): NNR; O4rfish; Dormio
NNR (1): Zakeri

Not Voting: CF7, Sky_Paladin
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 13, 2014, 09:06:06 AM
Hm... Unlimited vig sounds op. Also we can lynch Dormio or DNA. Well, can go back to Dormio. Since i'm not convinced that his role is a town role.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 13, 2014, 09:06:43 AM
Actually, screw it.
##Vote Dormio.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Serela on January 13, 2014, 09:07:29 AM
did Raikaria officially retcon the lynch threshold to 7 and not 8? I know he mentioned this at some point, but.

Just in case, whenever you people hammer, make sure to get the lynch to 8 votes if possible.

I'm off to bed. Really this time, I am <<
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Sky_Paladin on January 13, 2014, 09:08:28 AM
I will be here to hammer if needed.

Raikaria did retcon the hammer threshold to 7.  So that is L-2.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: SB on January 13, 2014, 09:08:37 AM
iirc yes he did
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 13, 2014, 09:10:01 AM
He did. Also you realize the only reason a Dormio lynch would be possible right now is because of the vote he claimed he put on himself? I cannot seriously believe this is still a thing people want to do.

##Unvote
##Vote: Darkninjaabc


And CF7 just made it L-1 actually
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 13, 2014, 09:11:34 AM
Well, as i said it can be a risky scum gambit to avoid lynch actually. Because who would vote yourself. I guess i have some time to quickly reread DNA.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 09:13:11 AM
dormio if you are here for chrissake fullclaim before i say fuckit and go to sleep because i am this close

dormio claimed the vote was stuck to him iirc, he didn't put it there and it's stuck there for a while?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 09:22:41 AM
Theory, Dormio actually takes 8 votes to lynch instead of the normal. That's why the mod messed up the first votecount. It would also balance out the extra vote on him and explain why Dormio seems so unconcerned because seriously Dormio.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 09:23:49 AM
Shadoweh, if I vote Dormio, will you promise to vote Dormio afterwards in case of shenanigans?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 09:30:09 AM
Actually can we just have a show of hands of people who will be around near deadline? If not, I may just vote Dormio now because if I stay up much ;onger I'm going to fall asleep at the wheel tomorrow.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on January 13, 2014, 09:32:16 AM
I still take 7 votes to lynch.
Fortress Populous is my extra vote.
This vote is stuck to me for now.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 13, 2014, 09:34:47 AM
I'll be around the deadline. Also i still have some doubts.
##Unvote
##Vote Darkninjaabc
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 13, 2014, 09:35:03 AM
I won't be here for much longer just because my eyes keep droopign
If you're asking if I would secure the lynch I would if it seriously looks like people won't go for a less special option
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: CF7 on January 13, 2014, 09:35:23 AM
##Unvote
##Vote Darkninjaabc
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Shadoweh on January 13, 2014, 09:36:19 AM
Dormio come vote for abc1234
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 09:37:42 AM
fitst things first why is me even being consideted as a wagon...

oh. scum cf seven. didnt really...

sorry tiny phone cant type.

can hammer dorm
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 09:38:57 AM
drop if scums. i  am umlimit doc.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 09:39:44 AM
umm wtf? is that a serious claim?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 09:40:24 AM
yes so i trust sp
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 09:42:27 AM
>unlimited doc + vig in a game
 :derp:  :o ???
I think at this point dormio is the best lynch. Sorry if you're town, but if you are you're being extremely unhelpful. :(
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Cheez8 on January 13, 2014, 09:43:00 AM
As much as I'm trying to stay awake just in case, I really don't see me changing my vote at this point. Especially after Darkie's claim just now.  I'm going to leave my vote on Dormio and head off to get a bit of shuteye. Night, all~
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 13, 2014, 09:45:20 AM
Votecount of the Dwarven Clock

Dormio (5): Fortress Populous; ActionDan; Serela; SB; Cheez8;  (L-2)
Sky_Paladin (2): DNA; Conq
Darkninjaabc (5): NNR; O4rfish; Dormio; Shadoweh; CF7 (L-2)
NNR (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (1):  Sky_Paladin

With 13 players it takes 7 to lynch. [Not 14 votes so it's 8. Dumb Mod]

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140113T1130&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1

You have just about 105 minutes [1 hour 45].

I will be present for the deadline.

====

It kinda sucks having so much happen while you sleep. TIMEZONES.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Conqueror on January 13, 2014, 09:46:20 AM
##unvote
##vote: dormio

sleeping now
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 13, 2014, 09:47:03 AM
Dormio is at L-1!
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: DNAbc on January 13, 2014, 09:47:26 AM
##unvote
##vote dormio

also i can self protect always so.

skypAL SHOOT CF OR DHADOWEH
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 13, 2014, 09:48:34 AM
HAMMER SHUT UP
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 13, 2014, 09:51:24 AM
Really; Dormio should have seen it coming. Everyone hated him anyway... the constant mewing... and scratches... the catsplosions...

Dormio; playing UristMcCatLady - Cat Lover - [Vanilla Hated] was pushed under a moving minecart!

Quote from: Raikaria
Dormio; you are UristMcCatLady ? Cat Lover ? [Vanilla Hated Townie]
You are UristMcCatLady, that crazy cat lady with 50 cats who threaten the fort with a Catsplosion, but can?t be prevented because you refuse to let the butchers at them. As such, the town is perfectly happy to lynch you at the first opportunity they can get, so they can then solve the ?Cat Problem? without making you go insane. Did we mention that?s as a really bad idea seeing as you are a Legendary +5 SwordLady with an Adamantine Sword? You?d solo the whole fort if you ever lost it because of your cats dying. Anyway, you require 1 less vote than normal to be lynched. This will be represented by you starting with an extra vote by ?Fortress Populous?.

Looking after 50 cats is tiring. You sleep at night.

You win when all threats to town are eliminated! Good Luck!


It is now Night 1. You have 24 hours to send in actions. Send actions to both me and BBM.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Night 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 13, 2014, 09:55:20 AM
Votecount of the !!Cat!! [x50]

Dormio (7): Fortress Populous; ActionDan; Serela; SB; Cheez8; DNA; Conq (L-0!)
Darkninjaabc (5): NNR; O4rfish; Dormio; Shadoweh; CF7 (L-2)
NNR (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (1):  Sky_Paladin
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Night 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 13, 2014, 10:02:33 AM
Extra note: Can all players PM me and BBM to confirm activity?

On Break:
Zakeri [His only post within 24 hours amounts to a prod dodge]
NNR
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Night 1
Post by: Raikaria on January 14, 2014, 09:54:43 AM
Dawn breaks over the fortress; and we are not all here!

Sky_Paladin; playing UristMcHammerer ? Dwarf Justice [Town Vigilante] was found with a spear in his chest!

Quote from: Raikaria
Sky_Paladin; you are UristMcHammerer ? Dwarf Justice [Town Vigilante]
You are a Dwarf who delivers Dwarven Justice. This amounts to you beating up anyone who is thought of being a criminal. Usually to death. You have been given free rein to hammer people due to the Goblin threat; but only at night; else you may cause a Tantrum Spiral as other Dwarves see you. As such; you have the following ability:

##Hammer:
Perform a Nightkill on your target

You win when all threats to town are eliminated! Good Luck!


However; ActionDan; playing Urist Mc Sheriff ? Dwarf Sheriff [Town Cop] was also found dead!

Quote from: Raikaria
ActionDan; you are Urist Mc Sheriff ? Dwarf Sheriff [Town Cop]
You are the Dwarf who identifies the criminals and solves the cases, so ?Justice? can be applied. As such, every night, you may ##Investigate someone, and you will be told if they are a ?Dwarf? or not. Consider anything that is not a Dwarf as anti-town.

You win when all threats to town are eliminated! Good Luck!

It is now Day 2.

You have 72 hours remaining in the day.
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140117T0953&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+2

With 10 remaining in the game it requires 6 to lynch.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 10:03:45 AM
Oh god.

DNA, why is Sky dead?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 14, 2014, 10:05:17 AM
Is it possible that Sky killed Dan, or can we tell?
I guess it may also have been a third party kill
also the spear probably indicates goblins (mafia)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 14, 2014, 10:07:45 AM
Isn't this just awesome? Why hammering Dan tho?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 10:11:40 AM
Anyone want to claim responsibility for Dan or Sky? DNA, who did you protect?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 10:14:15 AM
Third party is highly likely for various reasons.

##Vote: NNR
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 10:14:55 AM
It's possible that Sky got redirected or something, but it seems like a weird kill for him to make. SK could make sense too, but given the numbers it seems sort of uncomfortable? Especially when it could result in 3 kills in a single night.

Really starting to worry about DNA now due to his end of phase conduct yesterday, the hammer seemed out of nowhere when Dormio still could've shown up and the fact that a Cop/Vig flipped and the doc is apparently able to self protect makes me worry.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 10:17:50 AM
i'll just come out and say it actually. SK is confirmed because I was shot at last night. I'm assuming Sky shot Dan.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 10:19:05 AM
@Mod, are NNR and Zak still playing?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 10:20:19 AM
I'm curious about DNA's hammer as well, but if no one counterclaims him today he's probably legit given the number of kills flying around. >_>
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 10:21:56 AM
Conq, you're BPV? 3 kills per night seems really worrying.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 10:22:30 AM
Yes. And the mod notified me last night about it.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 10:25:42 AM
3 kills per night in a game of this size is pretty nasty, so uh I'm assuming there's a lot of stuff that could get in the way. Either that or a load of town power.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 10:27:51 AM
Maybe it's a 2 man scumteam or something? 5/3/1 on D2 with a hated townie means that town is literally in D1 MYLO.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 10:34:15 AM
potentially it could be even worse with more killing roles actually, i dunno
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 14, 2014, 10:39:34 AM
Dan's role wording does imply there's more then just one type of scum out there.
Is it possible that Sky killed Dan, or can we tell?
I guess it may also have been a third party kill
also the spear probably indicates goblins (mafia)
So with that in mind, Why did you think there was a third party kill here? The natural assumption when you see a vig and another person flip is that A killed B.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 14, 2014, 10:45:04 AM
@Mod, are NNR and Zak still playing?

I received confirmations from both that they were still playing during the night phase. If they do not post meaningful stuff in 24 hours they will be replaced still.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 14, 2014, 10:47:11 AM
The wording of the setup seems to go out of its way to not preclude a third-party kill.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 14, 2014, 10:48:42 AM
Also, how does order of operations work if there's a vigilante who shoots and also gets killed?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 14, 2014, 10:53:30 AM
People die when they are killed!
Where does the setup wording sound like there's a third party kill anywhere?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 14, 2014, 10:57:52 AM
Also, how does order of operations work if there's a vigilante who shoots and also gets killed?

Priority of kills has Vigilante at the bottom.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 11:16:24 AM
conq. i protected you.

also. i lied about self protect. i am a non csc self protect variant.

lynch cf seven or shadow. confscums
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 14, 2014, 11:23:59 AM
##Votte: darkninjaabc123
Well, at least half your sentence is right, there's a comf scum in there somewhere.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 14, 2014, 11:24:57 AM
(That came out wrong. Maybe I shouldn't make comebacks at 6am.)
THERE IS CERTAINLY A TRUTH THERE. THERE IS A COMF-SCUM, AND YOUR LIES SHALL PROVE IT IS YOU!
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 14, 2014, 11:25:16 AM
@Raikaria, just to be clear, you are saying if a vigilante shoots someone in the same night in which the vig also dies, the vig shot does not happen?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 14, 2014, 11:28:01 AM
Shadoweh, I used my dwarf skills and saw something involving Conq. I want him to give more details before I make a full engraving.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 14, 2014, 11:28:43 AM
That's not how kills work..
kills happen last on mafia scales and generally at the same time, so you can't kill a killer before they kill
At least that's how I'd assume it works.
@Raikaria Can you just post action resolution in your first post or something

Uh, okay then?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 14, 2014, 11:31:08 AM
That's not how kills work..
kills happen last on mafia scales and generally at the same time, so you can't kill a killer before they kill
At least that's how I'd assume it works.
@Raikaria Can you just post action resolution in your first post or something

Uh, okay then?

In places where I come from kills have orders. @_@

@Raikaria, just to be clear, you are saying if a vigilante shoots someone in the same night in which the vig also dies, the vig shot does not happen?

Correct; the Vig is killed before he can fire his shot.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 14, 2014, 11:32:11 AM
Actually i'm a bit concerned about Conq/DNA. They might be scum team. DNA's hammer and overall posts. Also it's not confirmable that Conq was shot and DNA actually protected him. And 3 kills per night in setup this small... I don't believe it. So.
##Vote Darkninjaabc.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 14, 2014, 11:34:49 AM
It's not possible that DNA protected Conq. At all.
Thinking they're scum together is kind of rediculous though.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 14, 2014, 11:37:05 AM
Correct; the Vig is killed before he can fire his shot.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat the fuuuuck IM GOING TO BED IT IS TOO 6AM TO DEAL WITHTHIS SHIT
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 14, 2014, 11:43:04 AM
Correct; the Vig is killed before he can fire his shot.
And considering that Vig kill was stopped. And ahem... Conq said that he was shot, and DNA said that he protected Conq. And we also have 2 corpses. Something doesn't add up. Like we can't have 4 kills in the single night? Unless there was 1-shot vig or something. And it's very likely that someone from above pair is lying.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 14, 2014, 11:43:24 AM
Well then, we have four night kills. Goblins killed Skypaladin. Skypaladin assumedly tried to kill someone but was unfortunately dead at the time. Someone tried to kill Conq but failed. Fourthly, someone killed ActionDan.

This is disturbing.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 14, 2014, 11:55:42 AM
This is disturbing.
This is FUN!
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 14, 2014, 11:59:52 AM
This is !!FUN!!

The !!---!! means on fire.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 14, 2014, 12:18:06 PM
My bed is too hot to sleep in but it's too cold without the blankets ;-;
Okay, so we're overthinking this. It says Win priority, which I assume is basically that mafia win takes priority over town, and uh, third party takes precedence over ???
It's still possible with what we've got that Dan was shot by mafia, Conq was shot by Sky P, and Sky P was shot by ??? Well whatever. Maybe he fell into a mantrap or something. I'm just going to guess there aren't four kills here.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 12:39:52 PM
i want to make a big post but i need to find a computer.

but lol i am laughing madly right now. its bloody obvious what has happened
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 12:44:47 PM
Yes I found a computer.

Basically what I want to do is simple, I Will first point out what's wrong with those two just in the span of this day, and then I will backtrack and also point out their slips in D1. Then I am gonna conclude why they are scums.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 01:08:38 PM
its bloody obvious what has happened
enlighten us

Shadoweh, I used my dwarf skills and saw something involving Conq. I want him to give more details before I make a full engraving.
Uh, more details about what? o_O
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 01:12:19 PM
Actually i'm a bit concerned about Conq/DNA. They might be scum team. DNA's hammer and overall posts. Also it's not confirmable that Conq was shot and DNA actually protected him. And 3 kills per night in setup this small... I don't believe it. So.
Even without my claim, the revelation that Sky would have died before he could have made his shot means there's still at least 3 kills per night. My information means there's 4 kills per night, which is bordering on the ludicrous, so again it would be nice if anyone would like to claim responsibility for Dan/SP.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 01:13:51 PM
Firstly, conqs question to me about my hammer. Basically, I have three mobile devices, one home phone, one work phone and a computer.

My computer has no internet connection and needs to use the work phone tethering wifi to work.

While my home phone cannot tether but has wifi yet its screen is tiny.

So basically, I cannot keep up an argument nor vote effectively considering there's a five second lag on loading every page. I also was incapable of accessing my work phone in due period during ED1 so I hammered for our sake. Its just simple as that.

----
Secondly, what's wrong with those two during just today.  Actually, screw it, I am gonna go from the very start of my logic train.
My short statement of cf7 and shadoweh being confscums come from the fact that I am triple hated. Look at ED1 votals, I had NNR, Oarfish, Dormio, Shadow and CF. Dormio is just being a jerk and mindfucking with us to wriggle out of a lynch, and oarfish and nnr have parked their vote on me for a actual day and two actual days respectively. They provided completely no reason to me being a more valuable candidate to lynch as compared with the lurker who did barely enough to lynch dodge. But they are not the subject here.

Basically, I would call my biggest turning point as town in my case against dormio. But since those two (oarfish and nnr) effectively ignored the game at that point and dormio is just looking for an escape. The only two persons who actually had to have a reason to vote me boils down to CF7 and Shadow. Yet, both of them never, and by that I mean literally never, not once, provide ANY MATERIAL NOR ANALYSIS pointing to me being scum. They are both just shouting empty words at the top of their lungs to lynch me because I am the second wagon coming after. That's why I find it both so hilarious and stupid at the same time. I would've thrown it in their faces then if I were not effectively talk-restricted and the deadline is 1.5 hrs away.

Mind you, while this may not be obvious enough to some people ,(like Serela who just went ''ahhh yyeaaaah DNA is like secondary wagon and everyone on that wagon are super serious and logical about this'')  are you actually going to believe SHADOWEH, SHADOWEH of all people for christ's sake would not realize that the three people on my ''wagon'' are one being actual afk, the other (oarfish) faking being afk, and dormio just looking to escape.  In fact, just the fact that cheez and serela exist and buys that the DNA wagon is an option because HEY THERE'S PEOPLE ON IT  is also a substantial part in my decision to just get it over with and hammer with conq. Because just saying ''don't listen to shadoweh/cf7 because I am triple hated'' is already going to take forever typing out on my home phone and is not even plausible considering that small statement is pointless without elaboration and if anything would just contribute to me being pushed harder.

So I did the other viable option, I claimed, I am a doctor, I can self protect every non consecutive night.  It turned out okay, I suppose.
-----
Thirdly, what has happened now.

Just so for Serela and Cheez, I would like to remind you once again to please read through pages 7-10 in the thread again, note how there's absolutely zero material, analysis and anything-not-nonsense-nor-a-stub argument being made against me.

Noticed it? Good.

So basically, what Shadoweh and CF7 did even today are outright weird and do not resemble any townplay at all.

Let's get into the townie's mind for a moment. Three, or possibly four kills have occured, which pretty much have confirmed the existence of a SK. A D1 super hardtown player claimed to have tracked at least three kills, with one failed because of my (now assumed not from me) docblock and the other kill being a dud in skypal which never got detected.

What those two did in this scenario, instead of immediately questioning the doctor, or just asking for people to counterclaim, or to just own themselves up and to hopefully piece together the situation considering 2/3 of the core town roles (cop and vig) died, WAS TO DISMISS THE DOCTOR'S CLAIM AS RUBBISH, WITHOUT ASKING FOR ANYTHING ELSE, AND TO ALSO COMPLETELY DISMISS THE DOCTOR'S READS. WHAT THE FUCK MAN. How is that even town? I said I am a doctor, and I already know much more than an average vt. Wouldn't it make an ounce of sense for any reasonable townie to at least for a moment, HEAR WHAT THE CLAIMED PR HAS TO SAY?

Moreover, their crackpot theory about me and conq being scumbuddies are even more pure comedy gold, and by gold I mean shit. Look back through ED1. While that period of time is messy, there are alot of useful hints of everyone's alignments by just looking at the vote records...... I am getting tired and has to eat, so let me cut this brief now and return to it later;

The interaction of votals between me and conq are effectively impossible for we both to be scumbuddies. Besides, conq is claiming a watcher/tracker/voyeur estque role if i interpreted it correctly, and I claimed doctor. I seriously do not believe that in a setup where D1 three attempted kills were done would exclude those two mentioned roles or their variants. It would be outright suiciding to do that.

The thing about me being impossible to protect conq is also retarded. I talked about me being able to selfdoc every day because I for first do not trust paladin entirely, and was worried scum would make me a priority target because i am the doctor. So I just guarded the towniest player and hoped for the best. It worked.

Cut by dinner will return to this later catchya
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 01:14:53 PM
On seconds thoughts I don't think I even parse why is it impossible that I couldn't have protected conq.

Anyway dinner later
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 01:16:46 PM
Is triple hated supposed to be a figure of speech?

Also, I'm not claiming tracker or watcher. I'm just BP, and I got notified when I got shot.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 01:20:28 PM
it is a figure of speech

and pardon i dont understand what you said

....eating..
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 01:21:11 PM
I'd like Shadoweh to explain why DNA's claim is impossible, but other than that statement uh I don't see anything that makes me think she's scum.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 01:42:52 PM
Basically, there are four kills being sent N1, one being a dud.

Conq enabler status allowed him to track three of them being used. Correct me if I am wrong.

One comes from scum, the other from SK, and the third one is likely from the second vig.

Or it could be something like scum/vig/vig too, but that would make one enabler tying into 3 vigs, and when in the worst possible situation the enabler is killed first the entire town game will fail to progress as the mod intended for it would result in three vanillas popping up.

That's about it really.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 02:20:21 PM
oh, and i am gonna doc myself tonight.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 14, 2014, 02:32:27 PM
Shadoweh, why are you voting for Dark. It looks like you're only voting him because his protect target got shot, and I know you're better than that.

Dark, I think you misunderstand what Conqueror's role is. He can survive one nightkill attempt on his life, and it will tell him that an attempt was made on him. That fact that he got shot proves that you're protection either went somewhere else, doesn't exist, or got blocked somehow.

I'm going to have to go through and reread because 1. I was convinced Sky was a Serial Killer from his multi-vig claim and 2. I didn't really prepare myself for surviving night one.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 14, 2014, 03:01:14 PM
oh, and i am gonna doc myself tonight.
also. i lied about self protect. i am a non csc self protect variant.
Oh...
Somebody is forgetting his own words it seems. Or you're lying again. And that somehow should bolster your claim.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 03:05:47 PM
then i am even more confused. for i am definitely sure i sent my night action to both the mods.

and if i were roleblocked i certainly didnt receive any message nor pm stating i failed . so this is truly baffling.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 03:17:16 PM
cut by whaaatttttttcf7 you are hilarious.

firstly i said at d1 i am unlimited doc, meaning i can target whoever however many times i want. in order to ward off nk attempts on me, the claimed doc

then i clarified in d2 i was actually a non consecutive self protect version of doctor and was gambitting night 1 by protecting conq. but apparently it failed. maybe due to conqs bp trigger in priority when hes shot, or i got roleblocked and didnt receive any confirmation regarding if it was sucess or fail.

you are just making silly, irrelevant and stupid jabs which do not mean anything

if you actually had the time to nitpick a tiny, perfectly reasonable statement in my wall and to fling hurriedly excreted faeces at me, i believe you have more than enough time to have actually response to what that i heavily questioned you on, that is voting me with no reason in d1 sans that i got triple voteparked.

you know what, i feel that a vote at this point is completely justified.

##vote: cf7
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 03:25:29 PM
what the fuck happened

Anyway, I wouldn't be super surprised if Darkie doccing Conq successfully would still have this event occur, although it -would- be a hilarious way to have a doc fakeclaim outted. I'd ask the mod before assuming the roles do not interact this way.

CF7's statement was bad logically but darkie voting him for it right now is pretty bad too IMO. (It was bad logic but it seems like a communication understanding that's pretty easy to sort out, and isn't CF7 not even voting Darkie or anything?)

Except for the part where I haven't really paid attention to CF7 much this game so maybe he's only been making insignificant pokes like this all game, which actually would be a fairly alright reason to vote him >>; I can't -recall- him doing anything better.

Also I can imagine Conq also being an SK caught in a hilarious fakeclaim here (in terms of the amount of nightkills after it was shown SkyPal's vig was disabled by death, which, by the way, has never been how it works in MotK before AS FAR AS I AM AWARE :V Not that that's a bad thing, it's just very unexpected, normally anyone who gets shot at and isn't protected will die) but the only reason to fakeclaim extra kills would be "Let's confuse the fuck out of town", albiet that can be a legitimate strategy

anyway I'm not seriously suggesting this on conq but I just thought it was an amusing thought and that it is still somewhat realistic

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 03:27:23 PM
maybe oarfish's thing about conq will help clarify something, I'm highly interested in what that's about
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 04:01:57 PM
Anyway, I wouldn't be super surprised if Darkie doccing Conq successfully would still have this event occur, although it -would- be a hilarious way to have a doc fakeclaim outted. I'd ask the mod before assuming the roles do not interact this way.
oh right
Raikaria if a doc protected someone with a one-shot BP vest and they got shot, would the vest get used up?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 04:03:09 PM
I almost edited my post oops
anyway, in addition
If a doc protected a bulletproof who knows when they're shot, would they still be told about the attempt on their life

idk how conq's role is/works so :SHRUG:
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 14, 2014, 04:14:24 PM
So this is kind of tough to make sense of. The way I see it, either Conq or Darkie has to be lying, because the only way I could see both of their claims being true is if there was a bus driver and a fifth potential kill involved last night, and five kills on the first night sounds absolutely ridiculous.

Darkie, it really should be no surprise to you that people are voting for you when you've already proven to be lying about your role, especially now that it looks like you're lying again. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if in a few days you turned around again and said "What is wrong with you people I clearly said that I was a nonconsecutive doc can't you understand anything you all are scum." At this point, I don't trust you enough to believe that you've been telling the truth about your role so far. I don't want to vote for you quite yet but you're definitely at the top of my list.

Conq could also be lying, for sure, but right now Darkie kind of trumps him in being untrustworthy. Maybe looking back through the game will change that though.

Also.
then i clarified in d2 i was actually a non consecutive self protect version of doctor and was gambitting night 1 by protecting conq. but apparently it failed. maybe due to conqs bp trigger in priority when hes shot, or i got roleblocked and didnt receive any confirmation regarding if it was sucess or fail.
I highly doubt conq's bulletproof vest takes priority over a doctor rescue. That's like somebody's death taking priority over a doctor rescue. It doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 04:26:01 PM
The easy explanation that everyone seems to be ignoring wrt darkninja's doc claim is roleblocker, which in the case that Dark is town scum is guaranteed 100% to have blocked him to ensure a shot on I'm assuming Sky_Paladin. If you're going to tell me mafia doesn't have a roleblocker with a flipped full cop and vig then lol.

Anyway this by itself doesn't mean that much but uh, I don't know why scum!darkninja would claim he protected me after I stated in thread that I was shot.

@Mod: Are roleblocked roles notified that their actions failed?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 04:26:37 PM
Cheez, why are you turning this into a 1v1 between me and darkninja?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 04:29:34 PM
I guess bus driver is also possible. In either case there's still way too many kills flying around.

Anyway, role shenanigans aside, I think NNR is the best vote.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 04:33:06 PM
conq. i protected you.

So I asked about this and a BPV who was doc'd wouldn't be hit.

This IS a 1v1.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 04:35:36 PM
So I asked about this and a BPV who was doc'd wouldn't be hit.
suddenly, 1v1

THIS IS WHY I ASKED THESE QUESTIONS BEFORE I LAID JUDGMENT
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 04:36:40 PM
cut by conq

pretty much what he said. cheez isnt really getting the main point here, that hes absolutely futzed up his own logic.

suggesting a fifth kill is hilarious. sorry pal, this wont work. never

if anything a likelier scenario is that conq is sk. he claims to have been shot, but hes actually the one who shot dan because dan displayed that he totally worships conq and the association back to conq would be weak.

in this scenario, then conq couldve just confused every townie while giving off a harmless vibe to scum, seeing there is the doctor , aka me, who is likely to be protecting him every chance i get. which makes the kill less appealing because random factor.

moreover, in this scenario only three kills would be involved. one from scum, one from sk and dud in vig. i personally think that is much more reasonable given 13p setup. but i just want scums to die first
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 04:37:15 PM
Honestly I'm inclined to believe in DNA here. We have two unclaimed kills already, and if no kills are claimed then they can be assumed to all be antitown. 3 antitown kills in a single night seems like massive overkill to me.

##Vote: Conqueror
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 04:44:15 PM
##unvote
##vote: conq
yeah this sounds much better as i read it over
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 14, 2014, 04:44:47 PM
Cheez, why are you turning this into a 1v1 between me and darkninja?
It's the main thing I noticed when I woke up. Didn't mean to turn it into a 1v1.

...Didn't realize I was doing so, either. Sorry about that. (though I guess it kind of happened anyway)

suggesting a fifth kill is hilarious. sorry pal, this wont work. never
Um. Yes. I agree. That was my point in bringing it up, actually, because it's the only way I can see you both being honest, so I'm pretty sure you're not both being honest.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 04:47:18 PM
i dont think its needed to ne said but scums obviously shot sp because they know hes vig
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 14, 2014, 04:47:50 PM
I feel like only Conqueror is going to get those answers.

Also.I highly doubt conq's bulletproof vest takes priority over a doctor rescue. That's like somebody's death taking priority over a doctor rescue. It doesn't make sense.

BP Vest have no priority because they're not even an action. it literally would be death taking priority over doctor rescue which is impossible.

Cut: I kind of agree with Conqueror. I don't know how to word it but I feel like Darkie's claim is too all over the place to actually be a lie (he could just say he was roleblocked, or claim to have actually protected somebody else, or just said he was lying about being doctor to attract the NK or something)

cut again I should probably throw this post out for  being too outdated.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 04:50:38 PM
The claimed cop getting bus driven/otherwise redirected in a game where targets aren't notified about it would be a lot more likely then a fifth kill, but we're already stepping into big role shenanigan territory depressingly early in the game, so

But yeah, basically. Raikaria was questioned and answered that if the BP was docced then they wouldn't be notified about a kill on their life. So either Darkie's action was redirected and he isn't notified, or one of them is lying.

That brings up another question.

Raikaria, if someone with an active, targetted power is redirected, will they be notified they were redirected? For example if Doc protects PersonA but is redirected to PersonB do they just know "action went through" or "action went through on personb"
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 04:51:08 PM
The claimed cop getting bus driven
doc*
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 04:52:45 PM
This IS a 1v1.

Nope, try again.

Darkie, what are you doing? >_>

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 14, 2014, 04:54:08 PM
Wait, hold on, there's something I forgot to ask.

in this scenario, then conq couldve just confused every townie while giving off a harmless vibe to scum, seeing there is the doctor , aka me, who is likely to be protecting him every chance i get. which makes the kill less appealing because random factor.
Why would Conq believe that you are likely to protect him? At the end of D1, you said you trusted Paladin. Shouldn't you have been protecting him instead?

This is a big part of the reason I'm suspicious of you. You claimed doc, explicitly stated you trusted the guy who claimed vigilante, and then when the next morning comes that guy is dead and you claim you were off protecting somebody else. Somebody who just happened to not be protected that night after all.

Actually yeah you know what?
##Vote: Darkie
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 14, 2014, 04:54:27 PM
i dont think its needed to ne said but scums obviously shot sp because they know hes vig
didn't Raikaria already state that Sky's shot wouldn't have gone off if he was NKed? That still leaves an extra shot from an unknown source.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 04:54:41 PM
Also, I'm not Prims, I don't gambit randomly and make claims for no reason so the notion I would do this as any type of scum, let alone SK because that would draw everyone's attention to me when I want to be sneaking under the radar doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 04:56:04 PM
How is it NOT a 1v1. He claims to have protected you. You claim to have been shot. Doctors prevent the BPV from being hit. Seems like a 1v1 to me.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 04:56:26 PM
Nope, try again.
uh we have two sets of claimed night results that directly contradict eachother. You shouldn't both be town at this point, whether it's you or Darkie.

The only realistic other option I see is Darkie was redirected, the answers of which I'm waiting on from the mod before I actually place a vote on one of you two.

Yeah, this doesn't make a ton of sense from either of you. But it seems that one of you is most likely guilty.

I don't like role shenanigans like this but they just can't be ignored because they -look- like the way to play to your win condition ;_;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 04:58:54 PM
Why would Conq believe that you are likely to protect him? At the end of D1, you said you trusted Paladin. Shouldn't you have been protecting him instead?
This 100% btw. Also if I were SK I wouldn't have shot Dan given he literally proxied his vote over to me.

3 antitown kills in a single night seems like massive overkill to me.
That's pretty cool, but it's a fact. Not to mention that 3 antitown kills doesn't mean a mafia and 2 SKs. There are probably other shenanigans at work here.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 04:59:29 PM
selela do you even get the point of this

there are three possibilities given what we have, when we assume both conq and i are not lying

1. scum roleblock me. i failed docblock. second vig or sk shot conq. he got notified. whoever didnt shoot killed dan. total four kills since scum must kill sp for being vig. the flaw in this scenario is that it necessitates the mod derping up and didnt notify the doc, and a shitton of kills

2. i got bus driven to someone else. sucess so no notification. scum shot sp. conq shot by second vig or sk. whoever didnt shoot kill dan.

flaw as aforementioned that it needs a shitton of kills. besides, imo scum should have all three of roleblock, bus and clop given how many full fledged roles 4town should have been able to abuse.

i mean like full cop and full vig seriously. its a hellton of town killing power. godfather must be there in scums too, cool its irrelevant now

anyway

3. conq is sk. he shot dan himself. claim to have been shot to confuse blah blah blah.

just read my last post yourself
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 04:59:35 PM
How is it NOT a 1v1. He claims to have protected you. You claim to have been shot. Doctors prevent the BPV from being hit. Seems like a 1v1 to me.

HOW MANY TIMES TO I HAVE TO SAY
IF HIS DOC PROTECTION WAS MESSED WITH VIA ROLEBLOCK OR BUS DRIVE
THEN THERE IS NO 1V1
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:00:52 PM
darkninja are you seriously voting me because you think I'm SK?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:01:30 PM
uh we have two sets of claimed night results that directly contradict eachother. You shouldn't both be town at this point, whether it's you or Darkie.
The only contradictory thing is the logic you people are using.

I blame Dormio for making me join this game.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 05:03:10 PM
I hadn't even considered that someone could be roleblocked and not notified because being notified your action failed seems like one of the obviously standard things that would always happen.

But I guess I could ask that too? >_>;

Raikaria I'm sorry if you think it's lame that I'm trying to "game the setup" by asking all these questions but "do people know if they're roleblocked/bus driven" is 100% innocent questions that I'm sure you would answer otherwise even if I'm not sure you'll answer them at this point.

but yes etcetcetc

I'm just going to pm raikaria at this point
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 05:03:41 PM
but yeah I've been discounting all of darkie's alternatives because they imply things that he should already know if this setup was run by most of the mods here
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:04:25 PM
Notifying players about failed actions only happens with half the mods, and even then sometimes only for investigative roles.

If you people are going to play the role game then for chrissake at least play it right.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:05:12 PM
cheez. can you actually try to grasp my intentions. instead of just raising strawman arguments

look, i told everyone first thing in my incredibly long wall i was facing deadline with a really crappy phone. i decided at that point of time, i cannot type nor communicate properly thus, in order to prevent the town doc, me, from being lynched, i claimed and said i trust paladins CLAIM enough to not lynch him. because, as i have mentioned, i cant even defend for myself, how can i even rack back up 7 votes for paladin is beyond me

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:05:29 PM
but yeah I've been discounting all of darkie's alternatives because they imply things that he should already know if this setup was run by most of the mods here
I don't know what this statement means given what happened in games like Town Mafia where Shadoweh lynched SB when she rolecopped him as the Bus Driver. Except the mafia bus drove him and Shadoweh wasn't notified so she was wrong.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:06:40 PM
darkninja are you seriously voting me because you think I'm SK?

dude its zakeri logic. "bully the wordy guy for content"
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:07:25 PM
I don't know what that means.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 05:07:51 PM
If you people are going to play the role game then for chrissake at least play it right.
I'm asking the mod all these questions and waiting for a response before laying down judgment, so I fail to see what I'm actually doing wrong here
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:08:49 PM
and if cheez you were actually drilling on the fact that i was lazy and left out the word CLAIM then lol sorry i really am lazy and left that out

now i am going to wait as you connect my laziness to some omgus scumslip resulting in a crazy conspiracy logic in full bloom
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:11:28 PM
Anytime the game devolves into rolegaming you're already doing it wrong.

Given the flips so far, I highly doubt this is the case in this game, but your assumptions could be fucked over by experimental roles, nonstandard action resolution, or just plain modfuckery.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:12:12 PM
actually darkninja the scummiest thing you have done all game is vote me right now because ??? and blame it on "zakeri logic"
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:12:48 PM
conq is saying the mods has the decision in whether informing docs or jailkeeps they "sucessed " or not because there are role shens that can be ruled out by confirmation like that. eg strong man and roleblock can be guessed

so some mods can just dont so it. those questions are p worthless if we are srsly trying to game the setup which is sadly what we are doing. and thats also why i said scenario 1 and 2 are not good because it relies on modshens

conq just exlains why we should trust theres a second vig who refuse to fess up instead of you being sk
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:14:47 PM
There is no second vig.

There is probably an SK.

I am not the SK.

The mafia possibly have a conditional extra kill, or there is a weird role out there like Trapper that creates extra kills. Dan hitting a PGO would be an example, although it's most certainly not the case in this game (because no claimed PGO + scum PGO is OP) but it's an example of how an extra kill could come into play.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 14, 2014, 05:15:10 PM
dude its zakeri logic. "bully the wordy guy for content"

He's reffering to the time I mentioned that people pick on those who provide a lot of content simply because they have a lot of content to pick on.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:15:54 PM
look conq, zak logic is a mockery of what he did.

if you think its scummy because it concerns you ehhhhh
i believe i have said that i am willing to trust conq is sk rather than that theres a second vig on top of the confirmed sk.

so i want you to explain to me why we should trust 4 nk instead of 3 nk in a 13p setup
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:17:52 PM
cut by conq.

yes exactly
maybe theres a trapper whatever it doesnt matter but then its still maximum possible 4 nk

just justify why the fuck would we have 4nk
instead of 3

and why , after you have justified the above scenario being possible, you are not involved

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:18:11 PM
I already said there is no second vig. >_____>

You want counterexamples? One of kilga's game had 4 nightkills in one night due to a role and that was 15p iirc. There was still only one mafia.

If you think I'm SK via play, that's fair game, though you're wrong, and I can show you why you're wrong (because I'm totally obvtown B) ). But if you're going to pull half-baked role shenanigans on me, hell no.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:20:00 PM
and why , after you have justified the above scenario being possible, you are not involved
HOW THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW IM JUST A BP TOWNIE

Why don't you ask the mod why there are 4 nk's in the game? Go ahead, ask him. Also ask him why he put an unlimited vig in a 13p game with at least two antitown factions, a hated townie who doesn't have any other abilities and is still hated in lylo, etc.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:20:55 PM
I am not involved because the only thing I did last night was PM Raikaria that I was still active. V:
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 14, 2014, 05:21:54 PM
cheez. can you actually try to grasp my intentions. instead of just raising strawman arguments

look, i told everyone first thing in my incredibly long wall i was facing deadline with a really crappy phone. i decided at that point of time, i cannot type nor communicate properly thus, in order to prevent the town doc, me, from being lynched, i claimed and said i trust paladins CLAIM enough to not lynch him. because, as i have mentioned, i cant even defend for myself, how can i even rack back up 7 votes for paladin is beyond me
I don't know what a strawman argument is.

While I acknowledge that you have a crappy phone, the fact remains that what you said was that you trusted Paladin, and so what we were led to believe was that you trusted Paladin. This is the first anybody is hearing otherwise and I still think if you were really a doc you would have been more worried about protecting a player who claimed such a powerful role, even if you only trust him enough not to lynch him. I mean, you said yourself multiple times today how obvious it was that oh, of course scum would kill Paladin because of his role. If you believed that was so obvious you really should have acted on that.

Essentially, I have a lot of trouble believing that you'd protect anybody other than Paladin if you were a doctor, in light of his claim and what you've been saying so far today. The issue with Conq not being protected only serves to make me more confident that you can't actually protect players at all.
now i am going to wait as you connect my laziness to some omgus scumslip resulting in a crazy conspiracy logic in full bloom
Nope sorry, pretty sure being lazy has nothing to do with being scum
and you haven't been lazy anyway

oh gosh so many cuts
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 14, 2014, 05:25:26 PM
My head hurts.  I tried to run through all options considering both Darkie's and Conq's claims.
Results of the night. 2 corpses. Flipped Cop and Vig. Raikaria confirmed that Vig's kill goes last. So. We probably have mafia scum and sk.
Conq claims he was shot. If it's true then that means that there's another sk or some other killing role. Which is weird, but oh, well.
Darkies claims that he's doc and he protected Conq this night. If he's doc, then as Cheez mentioned, why he didn't protect Vig, which imo is a bit suspicious.
Now i'm not sure if they're both telling the truth or lying but it seems a little bit too convinient to claim that.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:25:43 PM
Also I can imagine Conq also being an SK caught in a hilarious fakeclaim here (in terms of the amount of nightkills after it was shown SkyPal's vig was disabled by death, which, by the way, has never been how it works in MotK before AS FAR AS I AM AWARE :V Not that that's a bad thing, it's just very unexpected, normally anyone who gets shot at and isn't protected will die) but the only reason to fakeclaim extra kills would be "Let's confuse the fuck out of town", albiet that can be a legitimate strategy

anyway I'm not seriously suggesting this on conq but I just thought it was an amusing thought and that it is still somewhat realistic
since this pretty much seems to be why people are voting me someone like Shadoweh should get in here and confirm that I would 100% never make a QUALITY play like this as scum/sk. Every time I've been scum, I've claimed either VT or something close to my actual role, excluding my first scum game where I claimed something to troll Shadoweh. B) There was also a scum game where I claimed doc, but that was after rolecopping and killing the jailkeeper in a no-role-flip game.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:25:48 PM
yeah sure so you are saying you have no idea lolololil

then at least you couldve given us some ideas on whos the sk then, and why nobody has fessed up to your 'imaginary fourth nk guy'.

if you were actually inputing content and theories insteaad of flailing and screaming 'omg its possibl3 so i am inno3ent' it would be oddles more helpful if you are town.

but now you are just wasting my time without any progression on whos the scum or the sk if you arent the one.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:27:01 PM
I'm voting NNR you derp.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:28:18 PM
then at least you couldve given us some ideas on whos the sk then, and why nobody has fessed up to your 'imaginary fourth nk guy'.
Who the SK is = who fucking cares? Probably one of you people pushing this as a 1v1. Let the mafia take care of the SK.
Fourth nk guy = did you miss the part where I talked about a conditional scum nightkill?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:28:23 PM
who th3 fuck cares about a slot thats either getting modkilled
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:28:55 PM
then conq. WHO THE FUCK ARE THE SCUMS?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 14, 2014, 05:29:20 PM
I would just like to say, I was right about ActionDan being Town, and may therefore have gotten the Town Cop shot, but I was also right about him being a Noble.

OMG, a PGO in a setting with so many Town roles would be madness.
The more I think about it, the more likely it is that EVERYONE has a role. How likely is it for a massclaim on D2?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:29:29 PM
1) It's not getting modkilled as the mod said.
2) It's probably scum.

but now you are just wasting my time without any progression on whos the scum or the sk if you arent the one.
You're wasting my time by going BUT WHAT IF YOU'RE SCUM in response to everything I say.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:32:16 PM
then conq. WHO THE FUCK ARE THE SCUMS?

fuck you, that's what I should be asking you. All you have is LOL CONQ IS THE SK.

At this stage something like NNR/Zak/CF7 wouldn't surprise me but that's just off the top of my head and I need to reread to make sure it actually makes sense. Serela and SB have generally read townie but their current posting makes me think potential SK candidates, but not mafia. Cheez looks okay. Shadoweh is probably town via delicious meta. Oarfish also probably town.

I have no idea what you are.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:33:54 PM
look conq . theres nothing to discuss about nnr , literally.
if i have a better option and actual clues leading to scum i want to lynch those people first lor

i am never saying what if you are scum, i am saying what if you are sk. :V and i think you failed to grasp my argument where i am saying and repeating the whole time just tell me your reads and thoughts on the gamestate if you are town. you are just sragging on the pointless, of course i am calling you out, you mever responded nor acted to the core idea of everything i directed at you. that idea is, prove me otherwise.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:36:28 PM
now that you have actually posted your reads for christ knows how motherfucking long explain them

my sk candidate has always been you. scumteam of cf7/shadoweh/nnr or oarfish. i have enough explainations already in my walls dammit
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:37:48 PM
and i am the town doctor. motherfuck. how could i be anything else
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:39:00 PM
If you think I'm SK let the mafia take care of me. :V I'M STILL NOT THE SK THOUGH.

I've just responded to that. I think NNR/Zak/CF7 make sense as mafia. If you're town, a lot of D1 was town on town action, and it makes sense if scum was lying low and letting town scramble for lynches. NNR makes sense as scum because his one post was just bad. Zak doesn't have much of a presence and I'm pretty sure when he's town he shows more conviction than this; right now he's kinda standing on the sidelines of the whole Conq/DNA rolemess without providing any alternative. CF7 is mostly leftovers; I don't like the way he's approaching today. I'll look over him again later.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 14, 2014, 05:41:31 PM
Answers to questions; votecount momentarily:

1: If a doctor protects a bulletproof who learns if they've been shot, does the bulletproof still learn there was an attempt on their life?

No. The Bulletproof only knows if their vest was hit.

2.If someone uses an active, targetted power, and it is redirected, are they informed in any capacity that their action hit someone who was not the intended target?

Variable. Something like a Cop would have the name of whoever was investigated in a report. Something such as a roleblocker; a gift giver; a doctor and so on would not.

3.If someone uses an active power and it completely fails to function for whatever reason, are they informed their actions failed?

Variable. Roles which return a report know from the complete lack of report. Roles that do not return reports do not know.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:41:41 PM
oh and i never did miss that part about conditional nk

but since its conditional why would it be fufilled n1. anyway, thats not the main point.

look conq. many things are possible. saying in this gamestate and to completely ignore my analysis and roleshens screams lack of actual thought and insight in the game. and you know what, scums and sk dont think about gamestate as hard as towns do because its not their only loyalty. is that clear enough
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:44:15 PM
SB and Serela were day one townreads. SB for generally solid posting and good energy as opposed to his lurkfest of a scumgame and I agreed with a lot of his opinions. Serela's conviction on Sky_Paladin felt genuine although thinking back about it I'm kinda wavering, but I still don't think he's mafia. The way they're approaching today is what makes me think possible third party, and thus unimportant.

I think I have a pretty good record at reading Shadoweh. I think she's pretty town here, no joke. If she were scum she'd have more direction and fakerage. I don't think what she's posted in this game reads as fake. Oarfish is too cute to be scum. Also, him taking personal responsibility for reading Dan as town and getting him shot is kinda hilarious and I don't know if he's capable of saying something like that as scum. :V
Cheez is a tough read but he's one of the more logical posters here. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he was scum, but I feel like he's one of the people trying to actively figure out the game, so I'm leaning town here.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:44:46 PM
conq if you are the sk i would want you to die and leave our ppl alone considering town lost both their vig and tracker
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:45:43 PM
I'm ignoring your roleshenanigans because they're wrong and I'm ignoring your analysis because I disagree with them and think they're based on faulty assumptions. Nothing personal. :v I did read them though.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 14, 2014, 05:47:42 PM
Votecount of the Restless Ghosts

NNR (1): Conq
Darkninjaabc (3): Shadoweh; CF7; Cheez8
Conq (2): SB; Darkninjaabc

Not Voting (4): NNR; Zakeri; Serela; O4rfish

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140117T0953&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+2

If NNR does not post by midnight GMT he shall be replaced/modkilled.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:48:19 PM
conq if you are the sk i would want you to die and leave our ppl alone considering town lost both their vig and tracker
1) I'm not the SK.
2) If I'm the SK I have to aim for mafia because all this SK speculation just put a huge target on my back.


Raikaria's responses should send everyone still harping on roleshenanigans back to earth.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:50:38 PM
you ignoring everything because you say they are wrong means you do not input as town . if you are going to deny things deny it with logic. i am literally watching my fingers flash on the board while pointing out everything i find wrong aabout your so called logic. and then you just handwaving everything saying "its POSSIBLE!" leans town? i dont understnad

i will read your reads tmr but let me just say it. your even worse because you suggest letting sk roam after town lost both cop and vig. chances of town actually benefit from that is incredibly low considering sk think for themselves
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:51:51 PM
cut by what why would you have to aim for maf if you aee sk
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:52:39 PM
Point out the specific posts you want me to reply to and I'll reply to them later after I get some sleep because I'm nodding off right now.

This is getting into theory, but SK have to kill mafia to win. Simple as that. Kill SK today leaves town at MYLO tomorrow if there are three scum.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 05:52:50 PM
I'm way too used to announced hooks/redirects.

##Unvote

If anyone tracked or watched Conq they should totally say something though.

##Vote: NNR

While I reread other people I guess?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:53:41 PM
Dude if the SK doesn't aim for mafia he gets nightkilled by the mafia or endgamed/lynched by them when mafia reach majority. SK play is all about keeping the balance between scum and town. Napping now, I'll be back later.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 05:54:08 PM
comq, are you kididing me
rai reponses only cleared up doc and bpv thing

theres still no material saying 4nks are now somehow okay 13p setup.

this game got reviewed by both bbm and hw. are you seriously going to tell me to BE THE BOMB COP LIKE IN IDOLMASTER and trust CRAZY IMBA NUMBER OF KILLS
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:57:12 PM
theres still no material saying 4nks are now somehow okay 13p setup.
And yet that's what happened here.
this game got reviewed by both bbm and hw. are you seriously going to tell me to BE THE BOMB COP LIKE IN IDOLMASTER and trust CRAZY IMBA NUMBER OF KILLS
You should see some of bbm/hw's setups on serenesforest.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 14, 2014, 05:57:52 PM
I really should be going now. Mafia is bad for my time management.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 14, 2014, 06:01:00 PM
i am gonna sleep too but one last response to mylo thing.


cept town would still be going in lylo with us being strung on by scums and sk combined. tit would basically become a dilemma  where town is good as ded.

it a retarded suggestion to let maf kill the sk. you are spewing nonsense that would only make sense if you are sk
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 14, 2014, 06:02:48 PM
this game got reviewed by both bbm and hw. are you seriously going to tell me to BE THE BOMB COP LIKE IN IDOLMASTER and trust CRAZY IMBA NUMBER OF KILLS

HW only reviewed the initial setup; he did not respond to my queries about the current one.  I did warn that balance cannot be assured.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 06:13:31 PM
Darkie I'm sorry but you don't understand how faction interactions work.

Yes, mafia want to kill the SK. The sk can nightkill the mafia even if there's no general suspicion on them, which would be horrible- it's like an unlimited town vig in situations where the SK doesn't need to worry about leaving maf alive. And right now, yes, it is -definitely- in the SK's best interest to nightkill mafia; the serial killer will be endgamed by the mafia if more then one remains at the end of the game, assuming the mafia doesn't catch onto them and NK/lynch them first, which the maf also always definitely want to do.

It's not good to just assume how things work when you don't know, and say things like "since you are saying this you must be sk", because no, Conq is right.

Quote
those questions are p worthless if we are srsly trying to game the setup which is sadly what we are doing.
this is also a bad assumption. In fact, this is like, the worst assumption. You should absolutely always ask the mod questions about how roles interact if it's not completely 100% clear. The worst thing they can do is say they're not going to answer, which is completely harmless. Games have been lost because people don't ask the mod questions that THE MOD ACTUALLY WOULD HAVE ANSWERED.

Raikaria ignored me ;_;

raikaria plz if you're not going to answer you can at least tell me you're not going to answer (I'm assuming he just forgot or missed the questions/pm, it's easy to miss PMs if you don't have the setting on for the forum to yell at you)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 14, 2014, 06:16:21 PM

Raikaria ignored me ;_;

raikaria plz if you're not going to answer you can at least tell me you're not going to answer (I'm assuming he just forgot or missed the questions/pm, it's easy to miss PMs if you don't have the setting on for the forum to yell at you)

I answered all three questions you included in the PM to the best ability I can without breaking the setup.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 06:24:29 PM
oh I'm sorry Raikaria I completely missed that post somehow.

I'm bad at this.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 06:27:05 PM
The logical conclusion here, then, is that Darkie was roleblocked or redirected.

Okay! Moving on. (I've never consciously noticed a game on here where an active power that's roleblocked is not informed of being roleblocked, so I had assumed that wasn't even a possibility. However, since it's not the case, then yeah)

I have priorities to reassess, but I'm going to instead relax in the next two hours before I leave for work. I'll reread the game or whatever either after I get back or tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 14, 2014, 06:38:36 PM
I've been pretty uncertain about what I could offer to the discussion. I stand by the fact that I feel like Darkie is being too genuine about his role to be scum playing up the advantages of rolegames. if it was a 1v1 I'd have to pick Conqueror, but I honestly don't like that either for reasons I have yet to place.

Raikaria confirming that doctors don't get told they are blocked help solidify my first thoughts about Dark's position as town

also it occurs to me that I've been holding out on voting for a while, so ##Vote: NekoNekoRex reasoning has made no changes since last time I voted except for intensifying.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 14, 2014, 06:57:50 PM
Alright, I took a shower to give myself some time to think and this is what I'm coming up with.

Even though it seems like Darkie could've been roleblocked or something, I still don't trust him. That only cleared up the role shenanigans issue- he's still claimed doc, doubled back on what he said his role can do, has nothing to show for himself actually being doc, and didn't protect the person who would have made a lot of sense to protect. I'm too suspicious of him to believe he's a real doc, and in fact I half expect him to redefine what his role can do again if he lives long enough.

While I don't trust Conq entirely, I will say this much: I think what he said about his bulletproof vest was true. I have no idea what kind of complicated plan would involve lying about that, especially since he claimed his vest was taken before Darkie mentioned who he supposedly protected. I imagine he's either a bulletproof townie or a bulletproof SK (probably the SK,) and I guess with this many potential kills a bulletproof scum would actually fit in too, but I don't get scum vibes from him so much as SK vibes. I don't really believe in myself enough to act on that though, especially since I can't figure out why I can see him so easily as a SK, so I'll leave it be.
(Also I don't really know too much about third party interactions so I don't know if I should be more or less worried about this than I am right now, but I think it's alright to leave him up to the mafia?)

As for other players, SB did kinda go along with the 1v1 idea surprisingly quickly so I'm not as confident he's town anymore, but I don't know where that leaves him for me. Oarfish strikes me as maybe town on the basis of not really resembling how I'd imagine a new player would act as scum. I still can't figure out what it is that people are gleaming from NNR's one post though and I feel like I'm missing something there.

Also, based on his most recent posts I'm pretty sure Serela is town. I don't think a mafia member would display such a vested interest in clearing up misunderstandings.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 07:03:25 PM
Quote
he's still claimed doc, doubled back on what he said his role can do, has nothing to show for himself actually being doc, and didn't protect the person who would have made a lot of sense to protect.
BS

Conq wasn't the vig, yeah, but he was far and away the best NK option for every other reason. He even ~*~actually got shot~*~!

You're also drastically overplaying the amount of "doubled back on his claim" Darkie did. The only thing he went back on was how often he's allowed to doc himself, which is understandable since docs doccing themselves is something that might deter scum from killing the doc (whether because "well he's not doccing someone else" or "well we can't kill him at least not without using a bunch of powers on him tonight" or etcetcetc, TL;DR there's some justification for such a minor lie as that)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 14, 2014, 07:11:35 PM
Okay. I guess, Darkie's claim got cleared somewhat after Raikaria's answers. So, he's probably doc, and i'll probably go to sleep and write full analysis tomorrow morning.
And i guess i'm okay with lynching mostly absent NNR.
##Unvote
##Vote NNR
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 14, 2014, 07:18:48 PM
BS

Conq wasn't the vig, yeah, but he was far and away the best NK option for every other reason. He even ~*~actually got shot~*~!
Well, yeah, I guess that's partially true. I'm just bothered because to me Paladin seemed far and away the best option for the doc to protect, and he ~*~actually got shot~*~ too. I guess I'm still putting too much stock into what players' roles can contribute rather than what the players themselves can contribute but that won't stop it from bothering me.

You're also drastically overplaying the amount of "doubled back on his claim" Darkie did. The only thing he went back on was how often he's allowed to doc himself, which is understandable since docs doccing themselves is something that might deter scum from killing the doc (whether because "well he's not doccing someone else" or "well we can't kill him at least not without using a bunch of powers on him tonight" or etcetcetc, TL;DR there's some justification for such a minor lie as that)
Actually that's a good point as well. I'll admit I'm kind of reaching with that one. Just to be sure though, doubling back to "clarify" a role's limitations is still more often a scumtell, right?

I'm going to stubbornly keep believing in myself though (I hope) because suspecting scum early on and then giving them the benefit of the doubt and degenerating into a waffley mess is something that I do all too often.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 14, 2014, 07:42:16 PM
Uh, I guess Conq could be a BPV SK? I don't think he's actually been one before so I don't know how he'd treat it, but if he's bulletproof I don't see why he'd kill Sky Paladin because he'd need more kills to win? This isn't the kind of thing you go after on Day 2 when there could be another unclaimed explanation.

Basically here's what we have for the moment.
1: Conq got shot by someone and he was informed, so his own role blocked it.
2: As expected, a doctor would have protected him first.
3: Dark really really wants to lynch Conq as a serial killer, not as scum.
4: We're left with Dark claiming to have targetted Conq, who was targetted by a kill, and who Dark doesn't think is scum with a red but really wants to lynch.

There are other explanations, but I find it highly likely that Dark just didn't want to claim someone he didn't target and tried to kill Conq last night.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 14, 2014, 07:45:04 PM
It's possible that Sky got redirected or something, but it seems like a weird kill for him to make. SK could make sense too, but given the numbers it seems sort of uncomfortable? Especially when it could result in 3 kills in a single night.

Really starting to worry about DNA now due to his end of phase conduct yesterday, the hammer seemed out of nowhere when Dormio still could've shown up and the fact that a Cop/Vig flipped and the doc is apparently able to self protect makes me worry.

I apologize in advance for these words which may sound like insults.
This post seems kind of scummy. DNA hadn't posted yet today, and SB is simultaneously blaming him for Sky's death and acknowledgeing his ability to self-protect. If I had roleblocked DNA and killed Sky, I might have wanted to blame DNA and possibly get him lynched, but casting doubt on him by lessening the validity of the blame seems a mistake. Possibly a scumtell.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 07:47:58 PM
Shadoweh:At this point it's become mod-spoken that Darkie wouldn't know if he was redirected or roleblocked, and Darkie had claimed doc beforehand. He very totally could have just been stopped, so now that everything's settled, those shenanigans are null. (He also totally could have tried to kill Conq, but, we have no real evidence either way, so)

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 14, 2014, 07:51:31 PM
He could have, but his target doesn't make sense, and neither does the enthusiasm he's trying to get the person he thought was so townie he protected him yesterday? I don't know about you but I protect people I think are so town I want them to live over me.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 07:57:04 PM
Good point, now that darkie knows he very well may have been rb'd or redirected (Which is definitely more then likely since he claimed doc, that this happened) I'm curious to know about the reasoning he has for continuing to vote Conq, since as far as I can tell there is none anymore.

I also assume SB is getting off Conq upon review of the current state of events.

If NNR gets modkilled that means that almost every vote in the game will have to move! Oh boy.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: NekoNekoRex on January 14, 2014, 08:01:39 PM
>Day 2 starts at 5 AM
>Wake up 2 PM because getting decent sleep around here is hard
>already 5 new pages on top of the 10 pages I was too busy to get to last time

thanks England

Might replace out after all
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 14, 2014, 08:05:44 PM
...Now that you mention it, it is kind of weird how Darkie managed to make the transition from "protecting Conq over the unlimited vig since he is the towniest player and I trust him that much" to "Conq is definitely the SK and needs to be lynched today". Lemme see if I can find where that transition happened...

Well, here's (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061966.html#msg1061966) the post of Darkie's where he first entertains the idea of Conq being SK, and even though it makes absolutely no sense to me (SK Conq kills the player who displays the absolute most complete and unflinching trust in his innocence and reliability what) there's apparently something in it that made Darkie go from not suspecting Conq whatsoever in his previous post to becoming fully convinced in his following post, and all of his posts afterward.

Cut by oh hey NNR is back! Hang in there, buddy. You've got a lot to make sense of.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 14, 2014, 08:08:52 PM
>Day 2 starts at 5 AM
>Wake up 2 PM because getting decent sleep around here is hard
>already 5 new pages on top of the 10 pages I was too busy to get to last time

thanks England

Might replace out after all

Modkilled for violating post restriction. amidoingitrite
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 08:17:22 PM
So look at this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061218.html#msg1061218) and his Serela opinion. This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061326.html#msg1061326) is about a page later, and he hadn't posted in between, but suddenly he thinks Serela is "too scummy for day 1" and that's about all the reasoning he gives. The post also shows how he flip flopped on his Sky read. This one (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061421.html#msg1061421) looks like a subtle push for a D1 lurker lynch which is sort of stupid. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061558.html#msg1061558) paints Sky as scum for just stating something about another site as a scumslip, when really it means nothing at all? He even says that he would vote him over the thing. Towards the end of the day too he seemed to be around, but was sort of lurking through it with short posts that don't really add much to the discussion at all besides votes and "we could lynch x".

Here  (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061892.html#msg1061892)CF7 jumps on DNA using the hammer point parroted from me/Conq in our earlier posts and aside from that he just says "general posts", and a weird post saying that Conq/DNA might be scumbuddies. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1062059.html#msg1062059) honestly just looks like a lazy excuse to get out of his DNA push when he was never confirmed to be doc in the first place, just that the 1v1 might not be valid (although it still might exist), and the NNR vote just looks like he's joining the bandwagon with no effort required, he doesn't even say why NNR is scummy.

tl;dr cf7 has been pretty inconsistant and has spent a lot of time active lurking and has barely contributed anything to the game. Still happy with lynching NNR but if he's not here we're not getting any answers.

##Unvote
##Vote: CF7
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 14, 2014, 08:19:23 PM
What I get for being lazy is stuff like SB beating me to the punch on CF7, since he was my first planned reread. Oh well, he probably did it better then I would have anyway :3

Time to get ready for work, see you all later~
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 08:19:50 PM
Still sort of entertaining scum!Conq (for some reason one of his posts reminded me of scum!Prims, but idr which and why) but I was townreading him D1 so I have no idea. I suppose I should reread him at some point.

DNA is probably legit because of How Many Kills Are There In This Game?

Time to look at all the stuff that cut me in that last post I guess?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 14, 2014, 08:28:56 PM
I suppose SB makes a good point about CF7 acting scummy, which would strongly indicate DNA town. Also DNA is not SK. I want a certain person to roleclaim, but I will out them if they do not. My beard tells me they are the SK.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 14, 2014, 08:29:21 PM
Dorian replaces NNR; effective immediately

[NNR opted out before the deadline]
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 08:32:14 PM
Shadoweh, I used my dwarf skills and saw something involving Conq. I want him to give more details before I make a full engraving.

If it's on Conq, he already claimed...
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 14, 2014, 09:00:09 PM
...Hmm. SB, you're mostly right about CF7 (though there's at least one point which I'm pretty sure you just misunderstood) but there's something I'm wondering about first.

DNA is probably legit because of How Many Kills Are There In This Game?
What does the large number of kills have to do with Darkie being honest or innocent? I don't really follow.

I might have to consider CF7 after Darkie now. It hadn't occurred to me, but I guess CF7's posts have been rather inconsistent for as much as he's been cruising by.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 09:29:32 PM
There's been no CC and there are AT LEAST 4 killing roles. Something has to stop them.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 09:34:10 PM
I apologize in advance for these words which may sound like insults.
This post seems kind of scummy. DNA hadn't posted yet today, and SB is simultaneously blaming him for Sky's death and acknowledgeing his ability to self-protect. If I had roleblocked DNA and killed Sky, I might have wanted to blame DNA and possibly get him lynched, but casting doubt on him by lessening the validity of the blame seems a mistake. Possibly a scumtell.

It was less about Sky dying and more "wow these are some pretty strong roles flipping" and the fact that self protecting doc is really strong. It's like an infinite shot BPV with flexibility, which is why mods don't usually allow it. I'm not really sure how this is a scumtell, considering that town could find these things suspicious too and then would want to push for a suspicious player's lynch.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 14, 2014, 09:42:09 PM
There's been no CC and there are AT LEAST 4 killing roles. Something has to stop them.
Well, yeah, I can't imagine that there's not a doctor. At the same time though, since there are at least four killing roles, would it be unreasonable to assume that there's a second doctor, or at least a second protective role of some fashion? Regardless of whether Darkie's telling the truth, if somebody other than Darkie is a doctor, I don't think it would be too far-fetched for that person to look at all of the killing roles at the start of Day 2 and hold off on a counterclaim.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 09:44:25 PM
It's possible for there to be a jack or something with a doc shot maybe but I dunno. I doubt there would be an exact duplicate role in the setup.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 14, 2014, 09:48:00 PM
Also in a game with four killing roles I can see a doc deciding it would be prudent not to claim unless absolutely necessary so that they can remain useful for longer.

I don't think there'd be a duplicate role either, really.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 14, 2014, 09:55:22 PM
Lynching scum is necessary to win though, and if a real doc didn't CC then DNA could just coast to endgame and we would lose.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 14, 2014, 10:06:47 PM
Geez, that's was quicker than I expected it,^^; and to be honest, I feel a bit unprepared. So I'll need some time to get into the game but here is what my unreliable memory has to offer:

Unfortunately is the only thing that I can recall about day one, the fact that the later two of the three main wagons claimed major roles and that I was wondering that there wasn't even the slightest doubt about them. You can call me a nonbeliever but here is were I start.

Vote:  Darkninjaabc
You could call it gut but it's mostly a placeholder till I had the time to iso him.

Next in line to my interest are Zakeri and Shadoweh, mostly because I doesn?t remember anything they did.

So, with that out of the way I'll go to catch up with the 100+ hours of game so far.

PS: I try to answer questions but I may have to look into the matter first, so don't expect the anwer quickly.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 14, 2014, 10:07:40 PM
That is true.

Darkie, once you wake up, could you please state exactly what your role allows you to do so that any other protective roles know what they're counterclaiming? Without any small lies, please.

Cut by someone new!
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 14, 2014, 10:23:15 PM
Votecount of the Party at the Masterwork Stone Table engraved with Cheese

Dorian (3): Conq;  Zakeri; CF7
Darkninjaabc (3): Shadoweh;  Cheez8; Dorian
Conq (1): Darkninjaabc
CF7 (1): SB

Not Voting (2): Serela; O4rfish

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140117T0953&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+2
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 15, 2014, 12:03:31 AM
I don't have time to make more super-aweesome posts for a few hours but I'm reading. And/or also seeing more reasons to keep voting DNA if I'm reading things right.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 12:20:45 AM
how is the fact that 3+ kills happened last night a reason to distrust the uncced doc
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 15, 2014, 12:34:13 AM
Maybe you should read a little closer?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 15, 2014, 12:41:55 AM
Well, that read kind of ? disturbing, I don't even know where to begin here and I'm running out of time, so I leave the actually case for tomorrow. But there is one thing I would like you to think about till then.
We know about two successful kills, one supposed kill attempt and a mod confirmed vig shoot that failed. No one claimed to be responsible for one of them, so I think we can rule out another town killing role. Which leaves the conditional extra scum kill and that leads to the question, ?
...
but since its conditional why would it be fufilled n1. ...
I may not know many conditional scum roles but the last one I saw had, among others, the condition to hammer someone, does it ring a bell?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 15, 2014, 12:54:31 AM
DNA and/or CF7 may be goblin, but I know who shot JR Conq.
It's probably the SK. Should we vote for them over a possible goblin lynch?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 15, 2014, 01:06:10 AM
...Yes? If you think you caught one of the killers who isn't Sky p. you should out them, since it doesn't sound like anyone is going to take credit for the kills anytime soon.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 15, 2014, 01:11:08 AM
...Yes? If you think you caught one of the killers who isn't Sky p. you should out them, since it doesn't sound like anyone is going to take credit for the kills anytime soon.

It's you, Shadoweh.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 15, 2014, 01:16:46 AM
I'm sorry, what?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 15, 2014, 01:21:48 AM
Night 1. Standard investigative practice says follow the towniest dwarf who doesn't have a huge chance of dying, in order to hopefully clear their name. Following a waffler like Serela or a lurker like NNR would do no good. Following someone like ActionDan or SkyPaladin had a high chance of being useless. So I followed you, and saw you visit Conqueror.

I wanted you to claim an investigative role. I practically begged you to claim anything other than SK. At this point, I didn't care even if you were the SK, because I wanted to lynch goblins. But, here we are.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 15, 2014, 01:25:56 AM
Pfft, why would I investigate Conq on Night 1? I'd be more likely to get his role from his role pm in the morning. That's really weird though because I didn't target Conq last night.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 15, 2014, 01:32:22 AM
Apparently SOMEONE got busdriven, isn't this game ~*~fun~*~!

Or there's people being bold liars, that's also "fun"

Stuffing my face with caramel filled cookies maybe I'll read cf7 later
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 15, 2014, 01:56:21 AM
So who did you target then?
This might actually prove that there's a busdriver in the setup which in turn helps prove Dark's thingy.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 15, 2014, 03:16:44 AM
Ugh do I really have to do this
I'd rather not talk about what I was doing, it won't give us any more real information.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 15, 2014, 03:21:47 AM
Ugh do I really have to do this
no
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 03:36:34 AM
...
And why exactly not? According to Oarfish, Shadoweh ended up visiting Conq, who claimed somebody tried to kill him. Correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't seem like the sort of thing you handwave because somebody doesn't feel like bothering with it.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 15, 2014, 03:52:15 AM
If Shadoweh claims and is a half-decent PR then we may as well just massclaim, because the scum would already know about several powerful town PRs to go after, and the cop and doc and vig and tracker and BP (basically all the standard powerful PRs) are already claimed. >_>;

Like, you don't massclaim immediately so scum don't know who the important PRs are, so they can't disable them all.

We already have 3 powerful town PRs claimed and alive, and 2 powerful PRs dead, so A.How many can there really be?! and B.The rest being out in the open stops being much of a further detriment to town then we're already at.

There's benefits to massclaiming, such as scum all being locked into their fakeclaim (which is risky) or being VT. Obviously, if we do this, town shouldn't fakeclaim VT under any circumstances.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 04:04:25 AM
...I kind of can't tell whether you're advocating a massclaim or saying we shouldn't massclaim yet and Shadoweh shouldn't need to claim right now.

One way or another, we'll need to start pressing people sooner or later if we want to find mafia and Shadoweh sounds like a pretty good starting point (Darkie too but he's not back yet)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 15, 2014, 04:09:06 AM
The more I think about it, yeah, massclaiming immediately is actually a really good idea. Supposedly all the really good town PRs should already be out, and even if they aren't, scum already have their choices of a doc and tracker to screw with and know Shadoweh has something. (I'm working on the assumption everyone in the game is town, which is dumb and obviously not true, but the easiest way to go about this for the moment)

So scum already has their hands full enough that the reasons you DON'T massclaim are kind of out of the way.

Shadoweh just go ahead and claim, even if people don't agree on massclaim, anyone who apparently targetted Conq is auto-suspicious. I don't particularly think you're scum right now but I'm starting to realize we should massclaim anyway so it doesn't really matter.

Assuming massclaim is A-OK then the people after Shadoweh should be CF7 then maybe Dorian or Zakeri, then Cheeze, then SB and Me. That's only my super biased opinion, though.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 04:13:45 AM
Assuming massclaim is A-OK then the people after Shadoweh should be CF7 then maybe Dorian or Zakeri, then Cheeze, then SB and Me. That's only my super biased opinion, though.
In that order, I take it?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 04:14:28 AM
answer: yes. That's what the word "then" indicates, Cheez.  :derp:
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 15, 2014, 04:15:24 AM
I only recently realized than was a real word and not just a mispelling of then, so I'm not terribly familiar with which you use where ;_;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 05:06:36 AM
Real quick post for now. With cop/vig dead and tracker/doc claimed massclaim right now seems like a good idea. Let's take this all the way aww yeah.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 05:14:56 AM
...At this rate I'm pretty sure I'm going to end up falling asleep before I get the chance to claim. Welp.

Be back in the morning!
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 15, 2014, 05:36:59 AM
I'm waiting for Raikaria to clarify something so you'll have to hold onto your butts
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 05:50:01 AM
I am back.

Skimmed everything real quick which is generally okay. But I feel that some fundamental concepts are not clear so that there are alot of silly crack theories from the scumteam dorian/cf7/shadow. I am am convinced now that conq isn't the sk. but zak is actually the sk instead. Massclaim is awesome and I am okay with it completely, but the thing is that shadoweh and cf and dorian being scums and all would definitely not cooperate.

But hey, since Dark is here and he walls where are his analysis? Good point, because I am gonna do analysis right now.
AKA roleshens, I am feeling mashocistic enough to do this finally, after like 2 cups of coffee and 20 balls of screwed paper.
-----
WHAT HAPPENED IN N1
1. I PROTECTED CONQ
2. CONQ BPV TRIGGERED
3.OARFISH TRACKED SHADOWEH, SEES HIM VISIT CONQ
4.SKY PALADIN DIED BEFORE HE COULD VIG
5.ACTIONDAN DIED
--------
WHAT HAS LIKELY HAPPENED FROM N1 ALSO
1. I got roleblocked.
----Firstly, let's address this big problem, the existence of a roleblocker, at least one. Simply due to the fact that there are revealed unlimited cop, unlimited vig and unlimited doc (sans small restriction on self protecting), now even a tracker. By modding philosophy there must at least be one godfather/busdriver/roleblocker. On top of the very possible rolecop for scouting by scum.

Therefore the scum PRs are something like this
Roleblock and busdrive fusion/rolecop/godfather (with possible X-shot strongman)

The balance may change a bit, but that's pretty much it. We can maybe have roleblock and busdrive being separated on different players but they exist, and they must be used, that's enough for this point.

So now we have known that from balance there has to be scum PR that can interfere with town actions. We come to the second point.

Secondly, is it possible for me to lie? I have been called as lying. But never with clear reasons why, I even kindly supplemented reasons for those people who just shout pointlessly (doc may not exist, both conq/dark are scum), theorized every scenario and demolished those silly arguments. You know what, for your goddamn sake so that you can understand everything in one sitting, I am going through all those silly accusations again.

No doc exist is retarded given confirmed sk from setup, confirmed vig from town and factional scum and town kill. Resulting in four kills per day/night cycle. IF we factor in the worse possible scenario where town mislynch and claimed vig got redirected it would be 4 anti town nightkills in a single night. Jailkeep is also retarded (I am bringing this up as pre amp against more scum crack gambit because I can't help to do this later and frustrate myself). While one doc isn't enough for such a setup, we have a one shot bp. Moreover, if the aforementioned worse possible scenario did happen it would force a massclaim, pretty much like its now. Then town would basically  be able to toy with scum with two blockers given most docs would self protect d1 if they can do it and the same goes to jailkeep.

In conclusion, conq must not be lying because of its specificness of the role he claims, and I am not lying because its just impossible for me to lie.

Which brings us to the second rubbish consipracy against me

2. Doc exist but hasn't claimed, Dark is lying entirely about blocks.
For god's sake, I misunderstood BP as enabler. My assumption was entirely off the bat and if I were lying it would show balantly after I was corrected of my mistake. Example like directly contradicting material. Even when I worked with a questionable intial assumption I poured every ounce of truth and told everyone ''I targetted conq'', going the hard way where scum can and is now still pushing me for ''HE SHOT CONQ!''. I guess its possible, but with the amount of rapidfire content I am dishing out and pretty much walls and walls of analysis involved in each one. I can hardly imagine even Kilga would be able to manage to not screw up. I never did screw up even when I am throwing out so much. Why? Because I am telling facts. Facts cannot be contradictory. I hope you have remembered the silly jabs to discredit the CLAIMED DOC by cf7 and shadoweh, which were literally, pointless. They either extracted minor bits of my walls without regard for anything which follows and go ''hey this is wrong you are scum'', and when I defended myself and accused them they just slink away and ignored me entirely. Oh, and they are also dropping their votes first thing on me, the CLAIMED DOC d1 when it could very well be lylo tomorrow.

Post too long continue later
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 05:52:57 AM
Okay I realized I derailed myself literally and went from ''roleshens'' to defending myself.

The set of numerals I used to mark my post is wrong, there is still only point one. The seemingly point 2 should be the second reason for the first point further proving why I cannot be lying and was roleblocked and the accusations flying around are not trustworthy and rubbish anyway.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 05:53:56 AM
Second scenario of what MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED comes 2 hrs later.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 15, 2014, 06:24:24 AM
But you could have been driven and not roleblocked at all.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 15, 2014, 06:46:36 AM
somanywords.txt
Thinking on it I don't need clarity right away. I'm a bodyguard. I went to darkninja's house last night so we could put docs in your docs. Funnily enough either Conq or Dan was who I was thinking of protecting anyways so yay?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 15, 2014, 06:58:55 AM
That can't be right, because Conq started this whole thing saying his BPV activated. If you and DNA were redirected, or if DNA and Conq were bussed, DNA's medicine would have been applied to himself and your bodyguard would have been applied to Conq. Assuming Conq is not lying about his BPV activating, and assuming I am not lying about seeing you at his house, you cannot be a Bodyguard.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 15, 2014, 07:04:41 AM
Let's examine the case in which Shadoweh was roleblocked AND bussed, and in a setting in which roleblock doesn't leave you at home. We know the SK fired a shot, which means the Goblin team both roleblocked and bussed Shadoweh, the at-most third-from-the-towniest target from Goblins, while killing Skypaladin, while someone else also killed ActionDan. Implausible at best.
Sorry, but ##Vote Shadoweh
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 15, 2014, 07:05:48 AM
Yes, that's why I'm asking for clarification, because I noticed I was in a state of not dying this morning.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 15, 2014, 07:11:21 AM
If you can think of a good enough reason for Conq to make up a lie about having a BPV activating in a situation where nobody shot at him, I will vote him instead of you.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 07:12:08 AM
As weird as these role shenanigans are I'm still not entirely inclined to see Shadoweh as scum. Sk maybe, but uh. The rest of the massclaim might provide some insight. I dunno.

And/or also seeing more reasons to keep voting DNA if I'm reading things right.
I kinda want to know why you're so convinced about darkninja scum though?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 07:19:14 AM
dark, what convinced you that I wasn't the SK since that's pretty much a completely 180 from before you left?

We know about two successful kills, one supposed kill attempt and a mod confirmed vig shoot that failed. No one claimed to be responsible for one of them, so I think we can rule out another town killing role. Which leaves the conditional extra scum kill and that leads to the question, ? I may not know many conditional scum roles but the last one I saw had, among others, the condition to hammer someone, does it ring a bell?
Are you suggesting that that's the case here? Also, with so many kills, what are the odds of town not having a protective role like doctor (although massclaim isn't finished yet)?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 15, 2014, 07:20:22 AM
Uhm, huh. I still think he's being wonky but if all the actions are being crazy then I guess it's more possible he's not.
I haven't honestly thought about it since the claim. If scum were busy messing around with me/oarfish though it makes it less likely they had actions to mess with Dark.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 15, 2014, 07:22:42 AM
Shadoweh wants or wanted to lynch DNA because he was pressing for a SK lynch, which hints at him being Goblin, but also maybe because she's the real SK.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 07:25:39 AM
I'm down with a CF7 lynch since his rational for jumping on NNR is for being mostly absent...when that wasn't why NNR was scummy. Plus SB's case is pretty solid.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 07:27:36 AM
re: roleshenans Okay yeah at this point we're pretty much going to have to finish massclaim to see if that will make everything make more sense. I'm fine with following Serela's order from earlier.

So CF7> Dorian > Zak > Cheez > SB > Serela
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 07:30:20 AM
double ebwop: where the order is pretty flexible because timezones means if we wait for a rigid order we probably wont finish it in time
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 08:01:55 AM
So, mass claims on day 2. Okay.
And i'm a townie. With an extra one snot on demand vote. So, you don't want to lynch me.
And i'm not sure how many goblins we have and what else, but i'm not really sure whom i want to lynch at this moment.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 15, 2014, 08:55:09 AM
...
Are you suggesting that that's the case here? Also, with so many kills, what are the odds of town not having a protective role like doctor (although massclaim isn't finished yet)?
Maybe, it was mostly a side note to the case that began to unfold in my head and about the doc dilemma, a claim that fits into a setup doesn't make it true beyond doubt, there are more ways to get protection. Yesterday we had a BP claim and we got a bodyguard today, pretty noisy to make it sound, isn't it?

On the new revelation, I can't say that a Ninja <> Conq bus makes much sense from my current perspective, it even holds a implication that I really don't like but that's matter when things got more clear.

Now to my part of the messclaim before I go back to my promised case, I'm VT, plain and boring but true nonetheless. 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 09:30:34 AM
wrt night actions tonight, dna should doc o4rfish so she can test if conq is really a passive role.

trying to get something up in the next 30 mins but literal phoneposting is hard
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 09:37:19 AM
(i feel like this setup would make more sense if conq is scum, 4+nightkills is sort of ridiculous)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 02:41:36 PM
Sweet computer, jesus.

Second scenario why distrusting me is pointless for anyone town.

Myself included, have gotten too caught up in that silly debate to heed the direction of where this is going.

Basically, if I am not lying as a doctor, I am eventually going to have to screw up my self protect and die in nightkills. Or just to have scum deem me a big enough threat to powerblock and kill me anyway if I value their attention. Leave that silly debate later when its actually going to be somewhat relevant. Right now however, you don't want to waste more time listening to those crap arguments against a non-cced doctor in a minimum 3nk setup who could've chosen a much easier night action claim.

In other words, this is something which can be left later, don't waste my precious time please, I might only live one more day, if you trust me that I am not lying. I for one knows that I am saying the truth, so all those scumbags advocating for my lynch have to be scum because its pointless, or has semen filling their skull.

Just stfu about me already and leave it later if I actually manage to survive shit, which I don't want to because its tiring to dismantle shitty arguments as they involves pointing out the most basic logical errors and doing explaination.
----
I don't buy bodyguard X BPV comboooooo either, because that would've made absolutely no sense.

Right now we have a list of claims here.

Dorian: VT
Shadoweh: Bodyguard
Conq: BPV town
Me: Doctor (non-consecut town doc)
Serela: I can't put this into words but I have this serely gut call about him being pr
Zakeri: Lurked hard with little content, can be SK candidate
Oarfish: Tracker
SB: What are you anyway? SK?
CF7: At this point he's confirmed scum anyway, from both votals, avoidance of ED1 entirely even when online by the systematic tracking of [classified]. The only problem remains is probably, when do we want him dead?

Basically I am pretty sure after both conq's and oarfish's claim that this setup is persumably role madness. Because while one cop is cool, what happened in this game's D1 is probably accounted for. What if the cop and doc got nk'd? Town would be absolutely screwed. Oarfish suggesting an alternative form of investigation actually sounds pretty okay for a claim. But since oarfish pointed fingers to shadoweh and her claim being absolutely false. (details of which I haven't been able to read and analyze yet) I have to give the credit to oarfish for actually claiming beforehand and confronting an experienced player. So if this is a 1v1 and I see nothing more from Shadoweh, I will distrust her claim, because she's likely scum.

Guys guys and please SK won't draw attention to himself.  At least I would try to lurk my way through. But sure, I was tired yesterday, and thus was unable to properly process that if scum wagons me  and make a shitty claim about  ''shit being 1v1'' its not necessarily true. I fell prey to that entirely because I was tunnel visioned and narrow minded at that point because as aforementioned, I am tired. I apologize for being a dick. But midnight is like when I can actually analyze maf, and I am emotional at those times due to lack of sleep.  There's not even one full hour in a day when I can dedicate to playing games at my *top condition*. So every minute counts and I try to make best use of those time to be of help.

Yeah, so I was stupid and ignorant and bought their shit, then I realized it was unnecessary and stupid, approximately when conq pointed out **POSSIBILITIES**. Though it wasn't his argument I accepted, but that his argument reminded me if I can readily assume at least one roleblocker we should keep our minds open. So this is exactly the stance I am taking between this oarfishx shadoweh standoff this time, waiting for them two to post.

Besides, we actually have an edge, if shit goes awry and we can't decide on stuff just policy dorian and have the SK shoot CF7, that leaves a full day for us to decide who the SK/last scum is.
And its not a compromise, its a must, CF7 and Dorian must go down, former from actually being scum, latter for spouting a VT CLAIM and loads and loads of bullshit on the claimed doc, me, while subbing isn't an excuse either because nnr was the asshole who voteparked on me entirely through day one.

I am cutting this day one crap now because I tend to get worked up when I mention it.

Anyway, that's the plan, I don't really believe my doc will be relevant, but I am definitely helping myself above everyone else. Or at least this is what I will throw out on the thread to gambit. Hell yes I love gambitting powers so I can force scum into blocking me if they don't want to risk themselves.

Finally, I would like to address the conq question because I forgot halfway if I had addressed it, I changed my stance after I saw your argument and a good night's sleep, that's it.

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 02:48:46 PM
Oh yeah Cheez slipped my mind in that claim list, I still have to say that cheez is looking scummy to me. Personally, I am willing to swap my scumteam of shadoweh and put cheez in it because it would make much more sense if I just look at cheez behavior-wise (hurr durr pushing on town doc), but then shaodweh refused to respond to oarfish's track and claim immediately, but instead slinked away later, and without sharing with us his thought processes of how he arrived at the conclusion claiming it better, cowed and threw out that he's a bodyguard, which is effectively a 1-shot movable BP on a town PR.

I guess it takes roleshens to justify how can shadoweh be town PR. But cheez being scum is an unikely notion I will entertain if shadoweh actually manage to disprove oar.

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 03:06:33 PM
oh, and i guess i have to thank dorian for subbing in.

but really, what you have said are anti town and pointless. i dont think scum is up to the proper version of gamestate even now. the biggest argument coming from the scums are that dna may not be doc lynch him. but actually from what i have read from things around massclaim we have already accepted that we can just claim and deal with ensuing roleshens later, aside for cheese with his constant waffling on me.

dorians posts carry the vibe of subbed scum who wasnt really able to process and digest the gamestate properly or was just deliberately derailing us.

and he claimed vt

vt for gods sake
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 03:20:02 PM
Basically, if I am not lying as a doctor, I am eventually going to have to screw up my self protect and die in nightkills. Or just to have scum deem me a big enough threat to powerblock and kill me anyway if I value their attention. Leave that silly debate later when its actually going to be somewhat relevant. Right now however, you don't want to waste more time listening to those crap arguments against a non-cced doctor in a minimum 3nk setup who could've chosen a much easier night action claim.

In other words, this is something which can be left later, don't waste my precious time please, I might only live one more day, if you trust me that I am not lying. I for one knows that I am saying the truth, so all those scumbags advocating for my lynch have to be scum because its pointless, or has semen filling their skull.

Just stfu about me already and leave it later if I actually manage to survive shit, which I don't want to because its tiring to dismantle shitty arguments as they involves pointing out the most basic logical errors and doing explaination.

You know, that's not a bad point. Especially now that there are other leads, it is kinda risky distrusting a claimed doc this early on. You'd probably be killed at night before long if you're telling the truth anyway, so... I guess I can wait a little more before seriously considering lynching you again.

That said,
##Unvote
Hard to say who I want to vote for now, but I'd imagine it's between Shadoweh, Oarfish or Conq. I still don't believe Conq was lying about the vest though, SK or not, so I'm ruling him out for now. I don't know much about bodyguards but from what I'm gathering, there's some issue there with Conq being damaged and Shadoweh not dying from it. I think I'll wait til more of the massclaim goes through to see who I trust more or less though.

dorians posts carry the vibe of subbed scum who wasnt really able to process and digest the gamestate properly or was just deliberately derailing us.

and he claimed vt

vt for gods sake
VT is not out of the question.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 03:22:11 PM
Actually I'm not really too sure why I keep dismissing the idea of Conq as a BP scum role. It seems likely enough, whenever I think about it.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 03:27:13 PM
CF7: At this point he's confirmed scum anyway, from both votals, avoidance of ED1 entirely even when online by the systematic tracking of [classified]. The only problem remains is probably, when do we want him dead?
I like how you ignore my claim, paint me as a confirmed scum (confirmed by your words alone). Now we go along with your awesome plan, lynch a townie and bring mafia a bit close to the victory.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 03:31:25 PM
Actually, since I'm second in line after Zak should I just skip ahead to my claim now? It occurs to me I don't actually know what times he's usually around.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 03:33:18 PM
your awesome plan for the entirety of d1 and d2 was to lurk and push on the claimed doc for being a wagon because the votes are there.

if you arent going to submit anything reasonably efforted nor a pile of shitty nonsense after all this time maybe people would have had a better reason to trust you.

if you want to play the blame game i can oblige. but thats a waste of time because you are scum and we can all agree on that

con1 being scum pr?that actually can be thought about. but right now we are definitely gonna lynch or kill cf7 and dorian first since they are pretty much confirmed, plus i want to hear from swadowmeh to see if the notion is even worth consideration
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 03:34:17 PM
please go ahead, more time for us to digest stuff
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 03:39:24 PM
Alrighty, I'm a Jailer.

This is why I was as suspicious as I was about you claiming full doc.

Also I still need some convincing that CF7 is actually scum but I guess it wouldn't be too far-fetched anymore.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 03:42:34 PM
Well, i'm fine with lynching Doriano, i'm even fine with getting nightkilled, tbh. But not vise versa.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 03:44:03 PM
Then claim, fully, CF7.

What did you do Cheez?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 03:46:16 PM
I have one shot extra vote. Also i live for one more day after being nightkilled and can still vote if i want.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 03:48:38 PM
Shadoweh.

...Good decisions are hard to make sometimes, okay?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 03:51:18 PM
lolwut

allow me a moment to process this. .....
*kneels down and clutches head*
So basically.

CF7 knew he has a one shot extra vote.
And when dormio claimed extra voter in d1
didnt counterclaimed
and still pushed on my wagon
nor voted dormio for lying

I would make a hitler reaction video out of this.

Cheez is even more hilarious
oarfish tracked shadoweh
And saw him visiting conq
you jailing him means oar won't see him in the first place

hotdamn so you two really are scums
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 03:53:26 PM
You know this is so funny I am doubling over right now.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 03:54:52 PM
So, you don't believe my claim, i presume?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 03:56:40 PM
Yeah, this is also why I want to hear from other people. I don't have the foggiest idea what went on last night anymore.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 03:57:07 PM
lol what the hell

let me put it this way.

You claim doublevoter d2
Dormio claim was a doublevoter d1.
You didn't counterclaim him
You also didn't vote him either just for lying in our faces

You just pushed me and voted me, all through both days.

ARE YOU FUCKING KidDING ME BRAH
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:00:00 PM
##Unvote
##Vote: CF7

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 04:00:19 PM
...
I can make sense of that, though, yeah. CF7's claim doesn't really translate to his actions very well. At all.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 04:03:57 PM
You claim doublevoter d2
Dormio claim was a doublevoter d1.
You didn't counterclaim him
You also didn't vote him either just for lying in our faces
My double vote is one time use only.
There's nothing stopping Mod from making 2 roles with double votes.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:05:31 PM
Neither does yours anyway but CF7 request to be alive for night actions

I am willing to stop him just forthat. Because I am an asshole

And sk kill either zak, cheez or dorian. If you actually want a sporting chance else worst case scenario is we do not lynch the roleblocker nor bus driver and we are all fucked.

So basically if you co-op with us temporarily at least this night you have a chance to win. Elsewise nope.

I am willing to drop my case on shadoweh temporarily because the fuckup is too massive to ignore
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:07:15 PM
There's nothing stopping Mod from making 2 roles with double votes.

There's nothing stopping us from lynching you off the face of the earth since your interest is only yourself and is balantly retarded in even the regard of defending yourself either which is the only thing you did.

And there's pushing on me.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 04:09:17 PM
...
I can make sense of that, though, yeah. CF7's claim doesn't really translate to his actions very well. At all.
Actually scratch that, I just went back and actually checked and CF7 didn't actually do what you said. After Dormio claimed CF7 still chose to keep his vote on him for a while. He did kind of switch to you at the last moment, which is definitely strange given his claim, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:09:53 PM
Oh and you also said that you are a chicago voter.

On top of one shot doublevote

I don't even give a fuck right now. There's no two roles with double votes, dormio was lying in the first place and died. Have you even watched him flip.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 04:11:17 PM
I am willing to stop him just forthat. Because I am an asshole
Not a doc mindset at all. Not a townie mindset for that matter.
And sk kill either zak, cheez or dorian. If you actually want a sporting chance else worst case scenario is we do not lynch the roleblocker nor bus driver and we are all fucked.
So basically if you co-op with us temporarily at least this night you have a chance to win. Elsewise nope.
Who says that sk will go along with that plan?
I am willing to drop my case on shadoweh temporarily because the fuckup is too massive to ignore
How about you stop targeting a town player and look for an actual scum? Seriously try it. Might be !!FUN!!.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 04:14:01 PM
I don't even give a fuck right now. There's no two roles with double votes, dormio was lying in the first place and died. Have you even watched him flip.
Hey. Question.

If there aren't two roles with double votes, and Dormio didn't actually have a double vote...

What's the problem?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 04:16:12 PM
Oh and you also said that you are a chicago voter.
On top of one shot doublevote
I don't even give a fuck right now. There's no two roles with double votes, dormio was lying in the first place and died. Have you even watched him flip.
I did. He was hated. That is it.
Also try to cool off a bit. Because you're not making sense. At all.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:20:29 PM
quote broken apart for easy dismantling
Actually scratch that, I just went back and actually checked and CF7 didn't actually do what you said. After Dormio claimed CF7 still chose to keep his vote on him for a while. He did kind of switch to you at the last moment, which is definitely strange given his claim, but it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

For BOLDED shit: This is shit, he voted for me, he pushed for me and did both things I have mentioned. Moreover, CF7 never got a case on anyone for that matter, he had no analysis and no material, merely a stance, and a weak, not-to-point poke attempt at that. And him actually jumping to my wagon with his vote which is the only thing worthy of his presence in this game means alot.
But I guess I will leave that to underlined part. In any case, he did everything I mentioned, your wrong.

For ITALLICS crap: OMG WHAT. How do you define ''a while''? Or ''time'' for any scenario? When you say AWHILE you mean A SIGNIFICANT AND NOTICABLE ENOUGH BLANKET OF TIME. And that isn't waffling either. CF7 never panicked because as aforementioned, he literally had not shared any of his thoughts. He was hopping from wagon to wagon so him sitting on dormio for A WHILE (as you would like to put it) is fucking irrelevant. What matters is not his half assed attempt to vote dormio and ultimately went for me, but that he kept his vote for me and pushed for the lynch. WHEN DORMIO IS STILL THE CLAIMED DOUBLEVOTER, AND CF7 NEVER QUESTIONED HIM ABOUT IT OF ANYTHING

Like wow is that even possible. Tell me Sherlock.

For UNDERLINED faeces: Not a big deal? IT IS  a big deal. You are comparing his case on dormio and case on me here. And this is the guy who barely had any content to start with. The fact that he made a relatively much longer case on me and finally decided to push for the claimed doc when he's a similar PR as dormio and never questioned him is noteworthy, and by noteworthy I mean bloody obvious. Oh, and he also in the end, and for the majority of time also, kept his vote on me. This is his predominating stance, which is to lynch the claimed doc before claimed doublevoter when he supposedly has knowledge or queries about the matter.

I don't parse at all how everything you have mentioned makes any sense. Ninja out.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:22:46 PM
Hey. Question.

If there aren't two roles with double votes, and Dormio didn't actually have a double vote...

What's the problem?

The problem is that supposedly, when in D1, dormio claimed and nobody can confirm if he's lying or not.

CF7 had this knowledge due to his role, and never voiced a question. Instead he opted to gun for me, and is still gunning, for that matter. Even after dormio's flip which has told everyone he's just hated.

Also I have to thank CF7 for outing his scumbud cheez
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:25:33 PM
Hey, say something.

*poke*
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 04:27:02 PM
What the fuck happened while I was at school.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 15, 2014, 04:28:54 PM
Votecount of Cacame Awemedinade Mon?pal?thi (Cacame Apebalded, the Immortal Onslaught); Elf-King of the Dwarves

Dorian (3): Conq;  Zakeri; CF7
Darkninjaabc (3): Shadoweh;  Cheez8; Dorian
CF7 (2): SB; Darkninjaabc
Shadoweh (1): O4rfish

Not Voting (1): Serela

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140117T0953&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+2


What the fuck happened while I was at school.

Chaos
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:30:02 PM
just read page 19 from cheez and cf massclaim

pure comedy gold
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 04:30:14 PM
Darkie, haven't you noticed, that i switched my vote to NNR/Doriano after i sort of believed your doc claim? Also i switched from Dormio to you, because you were the only alternative at that moment. Also don't deny that your hammer was kind of suspicious.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:31:06 PM
and since you two are obviously still online, I assume you two are busy reconciling in the back alleys of your dingy scum basement to discuss or rage so that you won't accidentally screw up even more by defending your scumbuds,
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 04:31:44 PM
and since you two are obviously still online, I assume you two are busy reconciling in the back alleys of your dingy scum basement to discuss or rage so that you won't accidentally screw up even more by defending your scumbuds,
Do you want to be at L-1?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 04:33:22 PM
@MOD

If A visited B but was hooked by C, would D see A visiting B or would they see A not visiting?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 15, 2014, 04:33:54 PM
I overslept and have to go to work too soon to say much but, from how massclaim is going, IT PRACTICALLY SEEMS LIKE EVERYONE GOT RANDOMLY REDIRECTED TO SOMEONE ELSE >_>; And then scum lying about their roles to make town even MORE confused about what happened.

I'm not seriously suggesting this happened, but, seriously whaaaaaaaaaaaaat ahaha.

Anyway, Zak/SB/Me left, and yes I still think Zak should deffo be claiming first out of this. SB is a good townread of mine and based on being unable to recall anyone suggesting we vote SB (apart from Darkie for him going along quickly with the 1v1 which wasn't too weird for a human) this seems about right so I hardly even mind what his claim is going to be.

CF7's claim is kind of lol and isn't making want to not lynch him any less, but it seems like it might take awhile to sort out any semblance of "what the fuck happened last night". Shadoweh got roleblocked, and also got tracked as going to bodyguard someone who she didn't target. Aaaaaaahhaha. This implies, what, scum bussed Conq and Darkie? Why would you do that when the claimed doc says he can self-protect? That's bussing two of the three most likely doc targets (next:sky for being claimed vig, which I wouldn't have picked either since he still looked like likely scum), which completely negates the entire point of MAKING SURE YOU CAN ACTUALLY KILL YOUR TARGET

But if that happened, Shadoweh would have been roleblocked by jailer anyway.

Yeah, someone's definitely lying somewhere. But we can't figure out who right now, I think. That's almost a relief, we can just lynch someone for being scummy instead of for role shens.

Dear god why did I spend this much time on a post I need to get ready for work. CUT BY 8 POSTS OH GOD WHY
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 15, 2014, 04:35:13 PM
I even forgot to mention the cf7/dorm shenanigans B) yeah this massclaim is grade a comedy gold

Zakeri, SB, are you going to make this even more ~*~fun~*~ when you claim?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 04:36:34 PM
I sure hope I won't!
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 15, 2014, 04:36:40 PM
@MOD

If A visited B but was hooked by C, would D see A visiting B or would they see A not visiting?


They would not be seen since they never successfully visited.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 04:37:18 PM
OKAY SO WE HAVE A 1V1 BETWEEN CHEEZ AND O4RFISH

WONDERFUL
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:37:22 PM
1.Darkie, haven't you noticed, that i switched my vote to NNR/Doriano after i sort of believed your doc claim?
2. Also i switched from Dormio to you, because you were the only alternative at that moment.
3.Also don't deny that your hammer was kind of suspicious.
1. EVEN IF you sort of believed my doc claim you never talked about it, how could we know. Besides, as you are bringing something else up I assume that you are acknowledging your d1 hiatus was unrefutably scummy

2.What the hell, you should have the knowledge that you are town doublevoter, and yet you never asked any questions to dormio, nor pressed the fact that you massively futzed up in D2 and did something else, nor made any stances so far. In fact this exchange with you is probably the longest I actually had the chance to directly question you.

3. I explain it first thing at D2 start, due to my crappy phone rending me incapable of posting. Since I was ''triple hated'' due to silly voteparking, and we have selela and cheez(whom I thought of at that point as null/waffling town). I figured me and conq needs to do what has to be done. Surprise! Turns out cheez is scum WITH you! And we took advantage of your vote to rid us a heavily suspected hated townie instead of claimed doc!

I think you forgot you are supposed to be a lazy doublevoter town who hates me for all day long cf7, you should've at least some emotional rant if you are genuinely displeased or just outright ignore me and go straight lazy.

Also I believe you have forgotton your own claim and the mindset you are supposed to have with your claim, better luck next time.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 15, 2014, 04:38:47 PM
!!fun!! intensifies

(okay actually leaving now apart from a 5 second check right before I leave to make sure nothing exciting happened)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:38:58 PM
Do you want to be at L-1?

ohhh my goood you are threatening me with VOTALS and STUFF because YOU ARE THE SCUM.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:39:17 PM
serlea, unvote or vote cf7
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 04:40:00 PM
For BOLDED shit:
CF7 does have very little to show for himself, true. I'm not arguing that. But if you honestly think that the only noteworthy thing CF7 did is switching his vote to you, then I don't know what to say other than you're wrong and probably acting a little too self-centered.
Quote
For ITALLICS crap:
How long is a while? I don't know. It's long enough for him to post once saying he's leaving his vote on Dormio, retract his vote to look at the big picture, then place his vote back on Dormio.
Quote
For UNDERLINED faeces:
I am not comparing his cases. He has hardly made any cases to compare. I am saying that your accusations are just you overblowing the importance of somebody voting for you and it's starting to make me feel a lot less bad about distrusting you.

Even after dormio's flip which has told everyone he's just hated.
I don't understand how this is incriminating at all. If anything, it seems like the opposite to me. Please make more sense.

Cut a bunch.
and since you two are obviously still online, I assume you two are busy reconciling in the back alleys of your dingy scum basement to discuss or rage so that you won't accidentally screw up even more by defending your scumbuds,
I was busy trying to make sense of the loud and angry nonsense of you talking about various forms of poop. Cut me some slack. Your logic isn't the easiest thing in the world to follow, you know.

Cut a bunch more.
Again.
Help.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 04:44:08 PM
ohhh my goood you are threatening me with VOTALS and STUFF because YOU ARE THE SCUM.
Just to prove my claim i suppose...

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULLS THRONE.
Oh, wait... That's not it.

By the Divine Right of Amok; Highest Dwarven God; and the God of Blood; hear my words today!

##Unvote
##Vote Darkninjaabc


Now, real scum can come and hammer you.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:47:47 PM
Hey Cheez that's a smart move, you ignored everything I typed out and went to even censor my arguments in your quotes to make it more difficult for people to read because what? I am swearing? And my logic is hard to follow? Come on, if you are resorting ad hominim and that old thing about my logic being weak please just drop it, your doctor is not pleased.
CF7 does have very little to show for himself, true. I'm not arguing that. But if you honestly think that the only noteworthy thing CF7 did is switching his vote to you, then I don't know what to say other than you're wrong and probably acting a little too self-centered.
I am self centred but I am not wrong, That's irrelevant and shows to your irritation.  Also I am damn sure I mentioned countless times about everything CF7 did and even you yourself just said in the LAST SENTENCE RIGHT THERE CF7 MADE NOTHING TO SHOW FOR HIMSELF. Also why are you even defending and befriending the guy who had little to show and obvious operates on an impossible mindset when you could've questioned him instead?
How long is a while? I don't know. It's long enough for him to post once saying he's leaving his vote on Dormio, retract his vote to look at the big picture, then place his vote back on Dormio.I am not comparing his cases. He has hardly made any cases to compare. I am saying that your accusations are just you overblowing the importance of somebody voting for you and it's starting to make me feel a lot less bad about distrusting you.
:V
Its okay I never trust you anyway
But I don't gather exactly what is this part meant for anything in your stance because you never stated any in that section of your quote. But you accusing me is unacceptable because I know full well this time everyone follows me.
I don't understand how this is incriminating at all. If anything, it seems like the opposite to me. Please make more sense.
Can you just not throw ad hominim at me when you are losing at logic and make more sense instead? Thanks~~~~!!! :D
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 15, 2014, 04:48:30 PM
Anyone who prevents massclaim from finishing today will earn all of the disdain.

no time to sort through this
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:48:51 PM
thank you, now I am out of this mess, in case you are not lying.

:D
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 04:50:44 PM
But obviously, you have to be!

Rai, please, votecount?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 04:54:05 PM
Yeah. Votecount would be nice.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 04:57:23 PM
that whole post: ffs Darkie

Actually it just made my post way too long and I didn't like how it looked. I "ignored" most of what you typed because most of what you typed was both untrue and irrelevant to what I actually said.

I sure don't mean to defend CF7 (at least not now) because you and him seem to have started a little race to become the scummiest poster recently. The one thing CF7 has to show for himself is the double vote, assuming it's not a bluff, because even a one-shot double voter scum in a game with a hated townie seems skewed to me. Maybe the idea was to give town more power during the night and scum more power during the day or something, which would be neat. Actually, yeah, that extra vote doesn't really mean as much.

Also I still don't trust you fully because two fully functional protective roles is hard for me to swallow, even in this kill-happy setup.

But you accusing me is unacceptable because I know full well this time everyone follows me.
Your smugness really isn't helping matters either, you know.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 05:02:42 PM
Actually it just made my post way too long and I didn't like how it looked. I "ignored" most of what you typed because most of what you typed was both untrue and irrelevant to what I actually said.
Okay, so you are deliberately twisting my words to your favour and defend the bits your like, caw caw.
I sure don't mean to defend CF7 (at least not now) because you and him seem to have started a little race to become the scummiest poster recently. The one thing CF7 has to show for himself is the double vote, assuming it's not a bluff, because even a one-shot double voter scum in a game with a hated townie seems skewed to me. Maybe the idea was to give town more power during the night and scum more power during the day or something, which would be neat. Actually, yeah, that extra vote doesn't really mean as much.
Hey, why are you pre-amping for the extra vote and even bothered to make it a majority of your post? You even went as far as to ignore my arguments, as well as everything you said falling apart, to come up and pre amp the IF TEH VOTE IS GONNA WORK, CF7 is PROLLY TOWN because roleshens that I literally cannot follow (was it that, a scum with doublevote and hated town in a setup is subjectively bad? lol)
Also I still don't trust you fully because two fully functional protective roles is hard for me to swallow, even in this kill-happy setup.
Your smugness really isn't helping matters either, you know.
Its simple, shadoweh and you are both lying.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 05:08:19 PM
And if you are gonna choose a fakeclaim don't make something so bloodily obviously fake.

I mean chicago doublevoter? lol, more like activator scum (posts a command that gets modconfirmed to do something, but in reality does nothing). But in this case, with fake votes.

Elsewise its just doublevoting scum then, I don't see how he being able to doublevote and putting it on me goes to prove anything that he has an impossible d1 mindset.

And even that ''doublevote'' just now was fueled by no reason at all, sans that he's probably pissed.

------
cheez, things are not wrong because you state them to be, you prove them by logic. Now can you actually address everything I told you did wrong and logic me back instead of pre amping the idea of IF HE ACTAULLY CAN DOUBLEVOTE EVERYTHING IS IRRELEVANT.

No things are still relevant, cf7's d1 mindset is still a mess, he still never explain why did he pop the vote on me and why he posted nothing until now that hes strung on.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 05:10:11 PM
...My goodness. At this point I'm just going to go take a shower to cool my head. If you're actually right about my logic falling apart, then there's little point in me continuing to post in my current state.

And none of that "lol scum is running away" crap, because I will still respond to you.

Cut again. I will consider this during my shower, Darkie, and I will come back later once I've thought logically about things and know where I wish to stand on current events. Alright?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 05:11:12 PM
go on
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 05:12:01 PM
although I must add its actuallly still very likely they just need more time to recouncil in their scum qt.

Because god knows how long a shower takes
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 05:15:15 PM
And if you are gonna choose a fakeclaim don't make something so bloodily obviously fake.
I mean chicago doublevoter? lol, more like activator scum (posts a command that gets modconfirmed to do something, but in reality does nothing). But in this case, with fake votes.
And even that ''doublevote'' just now was fueled by no reason at all, sans that he's probably pissed.
The problem is, that it's not a fake claim.
More like annoyed, actually. Because somehow you to refuse to listen to anything i say.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 05:19:24 PM
I think you have mistakened.
I listened to everything you said, pointed out the impossibility in the logic and how therefore it adds to my argument that you are scum.

And as I have have said, even if its not a fakeclaim, it still goes to prove nothing on that you have never justified your impossible mindset d1, and is just calling attention to this pointless struggle.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 05:22:27 PM
this pointless struggle.
QFT&E.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 15, 2014, 05:38:47 PM
Votecount of Amok

Dorian (2): Conq;  Zakeri
Darkninjaabc (5): Shadoweh;  Cheez8; Dorian; CF7; CF7 L-1
CF7 (2): SB; Darkninjaabc
Shadoweh (1): O4rfish

Not Voting (1): Serela

With 11 votes in play it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140117T0953&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+2
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 15, 2014, 05:41:46 PM
Fore the sake of sanity will I leave the role implication out for the moment and only look at Ninjas content.

First point, his scum picks:
Aside from RVS and his short dispute with Conq was his first suspect Cheez and that for the better part of day one until ?this point? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061502.html#msg1061502). What I find interesting about this post is that the only thing he said about Cheez here is: ?cheez has been disappearing forever already, I do not understand.? which by all means doesn't sounds like a change of mind but he dropped him entirely in favor of his new scum team ?oarfish/shadoweh/dormio? two supposed lurker and his counter wagon at said time, which strikes me as quite opportunistic. Even his later post ?here? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061505.html#msg1061505) doesn?t explains the sudden drop in priority nor does it actually sounds like he dropped his suspicion on Cheez at all. No, he even goes that far and questioned his own current vote with: ?... I realized the likeliness that if cheez is scum from such, then dormio must be town. ? I'll come back to this at a later point.
In his ?next post? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061507.html#msg1061507) he said that he's ?still absolutely okay with lynching oarfish, serela, nnr, shadoweh or dan so saying.? mostly on a LAL policy but he still ?advocating the lynch on dormio because I feel that its the only possible option for a lynch given the tight deadline and the existing wagons.? I can say that is alone is already a questionable wide field of suspicion as it is but apparently not enough for him, cause he adds SP and CF7 to his list at the end of day one.
Now take his day two picks where he started with CF7 just to flip flop on SK Conq and ended up voting me, a lurker slot that he barely even mentioned all game, over one of his supposed scum picks. And you will agree with me that this is a inconsistent and incoherent mess.

Second point, lining up mislynches:
The above mentioned line about Cheez and Dormio is only one of three attempts to setup false dichotomys, the other two are ?here? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061561.html#msg1061561) and ?here? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061566.html#msg1061566). What made him think that Cheez waffling has any compelling implications on Dormios alignment? And when he really saw an implication, then why haven't he considered the possibility of town Dormio a bit more? No, he rather went into the next one: ?IF dormio flips town CF7 is confscum? and that's because: ? CF7 for one is a sore thumb for stating both lynches are delicious and then tryharding plopping his vote on dormio, my instincts are screaming that he's scum looking to save paladin's ass? and ?If Dorm flips town sky is scum, if sky flips town dorm is scum, not that sure on the latter, but the former is almost most certainly true.? and if both flip town then CF7 is apparently scum nevertheless cause that's the vote you started the day with.
Sincerely, if that wasn't meant to paint someone red in case the other flips fist then I have no idea what it meant at all.

And finally the third point, his over defensive position:
I already pointed out how disconnected his suspicions are from a town perspective, now lets try to reconnect them in a scum perspective. First, it's a interesting fact that he dropped Cheez just at the time when said one voted Dormio, the same goes for the sudden suspicions on Oarfish and Shadoweh. I already said what I think about his Dormio vote and his end of day vote pattern is nothing less than cheerful notme over me wagon hopping.
Ninjas first vote this day may be the only halfway consistent thing he had done all game if he wouldn't have dropped supposed ?confirmed scum? to entertain us with excessive ITP panic which he then also dropped to sheep exactly the one he supposed as SK before.


Conclusion: my vote stays where it is.

PS: that was torture and I somehow got the feeling that I was cut by something even more disturbing but I'm in for a drink anyway.^^;;
PPS: Good, at least it wasn't a hammer and to make sure that it stays that way ##: Unvote
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 05:44:17 PM
Alright, I feel better. Seems a shower takes about 20 minutes.

...Er. I'm re-reading our previous posts, Darkie, and between us both saying the other doesn't make sense, I've kind of lost track of where the original point of the argument was. Would you mind restating what you want me to respond to so that I don't complicate things further by guessing wrong? ^^;

While I do enjoy my crackpot theories, I have to admit that a double vote should really indicate CF7 is town.

I'm still probably going to be disagreeing with Darkie in the future, but I should probably cut him more of a break than I am. This setup could probably use a second protective role in some capacity, after all. Not a third one though so I should probably be suspicious of either him or Shadoweh.

Speaking of which there's something weird going on with her, Oarfish and Conq. The most I can make of that is that either Oarfish is lying (which would be the simplest solution) or something with the roleblockers and bus drivers really, really wreaked havoc.

Hey, cool, a double vote. And whoa, a big wall. I'll put this here first before reading that.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 05:46:30 PM
Oh yeah.

##Unvote
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 15, 2014, 06:05:20 PM
I just skimmed through and apparently we're massclaiming?

I'm the one-shot trapper. I'm pretty much guaranteed to be the fourth NK from last night.
I decided to give it to Shadoweh because I figure town roles are the least likely to target her.
I'm not told when, if, or who sets off my Trap, so I don't actually know who I killed, but I asked yesterday while we were discussing things, and Raikaria confirmed that because of how my ability works, it has highest priority in move order.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 15, 2014, 06:12:40 PM
So Cheez8 is our second doctor and is counter claiming Darkie?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 06:19:11 PM
Yay competition! I was getting bored doing cookie clicker too.
Fore the sake of sanity will I leave the role implication out for the moment and only look at Ninjas content.
So you are going to ignore your scumbuddies futzed up claim and backtrack on things? That's so absolutely helpful and not wasting more time diverting attention from the currently super condemning edvidence that is impossible claims. Moreover, my claim logic is easy. Its just outright unreasonable and insane for CF7 to be town doublevoter, that's it.

This is a clear attempt on the justification of the likely results of Dorians wall, diverting attention from cf7 and dump it on me. Remember this bit as you read through my post.

First point, his scum picks:
Aside from RVS and his short dispute with Conq was his first suspect Cheez and that for the better part of day one until ?this point? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061502.html#msg1061502). What I find interesting about this post is that the only thing he said about Cheez here is: ?cheez has been disappearing forever already, I do not understand.? which by all means doesn't sounds like a change of mind but he dropped him entirely in favor of his new scum team ?oarfish/shadoweh/dormio? two supposed lurker and his counter wagon at said time, which strikes me as quite opportunistic.
I don't heed the big problem with lynching the lurkers, for I have always advocated for the death of null reads who are impeding us. Besides, that is when oarfish claimed nothing, dormio was still lurking and incriminating as ever and shadoweh a lurker also. You dislike it being bad in hindsight because its in HINDSIGHT. The bit about Cheez is both due to his lurk and waffling, that he never had a clear stance. I didn't call him scum outright because I gave him the credit of doubt and that I lacked any condemning edvidence at that time. Therefore I dropped him, and advocated for the lynching of lurkers, problem?
Even his later post ?here? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061505.html#msg1061505) doesn?t explains the sudden drop in priority nor does it actually sounds like he dropped his suspicion on Cheez at all. No, he even goes that far and questioned his own current vote with: ?... I realized the likeliness that if cheez is scum from such, then dormio must be town. ? I'll come back to this at a later point.
Eh.....Maybe you should read up on implications. There is much that can be deferred from tone, style and generally how a person speaks. Since I am typing out everything without any proofreading nor trimming, it should be incredibly easy to track my behavior. Just saying ''one post doesn't prove everything'' doesn't come to ''therefore the rest of the posts are wrong''  conclusion.

 You extracting that bit of the thread is helpful, but anybody who are gonna click into his links pray read the stuff before and after the posts. I personally didn't click into them yet because I am pretty confident in the approximate phenomena Dorian is referring to, which is that I didn't explain me dropping cheez, and its wrong to point at me being scum. For firstly, at that point I had little material to truly push so hard for a lynch where there's many more incriminating scummy slots like dorian's and cf7's. Secondly, I gave cheez the credit of doubt as I mentioned earlier. This section of your biased follow up at picking flaws in my logic is therefore untrue.

In his ?next post? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061507.html#msg1061507) he said that he's ?still absolutely okay with lynching oarfish, serela, nnr, shadoweh or dan so saying.? mostly on a LAL policy but he still ?advocating the lynch on dormio because I feel that its the only possible option for a lynch given the tight deadline and the existing wagons.? I can say that is alone is already a questionable wide field of suspicion as it is but apparently not enough for him, cause he adds SP and CF7 to his list at the end of day one.
Now take his day two picks where he started with CF7 just to flip flop on SK Conq and ended up voting me, a lurker slot that he barely even mentioned all game, over one of his supposed scum picks. And you will agree with me that this is a inconsistent and incoherent mess.
So the big idea in this bit is that everything I did was an inconsistent and incoherent mess before I latched onto the correct scums.
Hoho, very funny.

Basically, I don't see what's wrong with correcting wrong opinions, which is such a big deal you make out of over the span of your wall and is the biggest accusation you toss at me. Moreso when you haven't even bothered to read up my existent responses to actually most, if not all of the arguments posted here. The lynch and subsequent hammer on dormio was explained at least thrice due to unconfirmed alignement of people on his wagon, the inherent scumminess of dormio, my incapability of posting and that i got voteparked.

Oh, and that bit about me flip flopping on cf7 and subsequent conq is due to my tiredness, which has again been explained by myself personally at least twice. When conq questioned me on why did I turn so sharply from him to cf7 and the other of which I couldn't recall clearly. But you must pardon me for my slack for I truly view responding to your not really well thought out arguments as irrelevant. For we already have overwhelming edvidence on reliable sources of information, instead of all your jumbled jargon of assumptions which also have shown over and over that when said assumptions are being made, did not reference to any of my previous arguments and is therefore very boring to rebutt against for your (Dorian's) assumptions and arguments are but old stuff which I have talked about already but he was too lazy himself to check and factor them out.

But where are we at? Excuse me, at why me flipping out at cf7 and conq. Why sir, I believe it will do you some good to read up on my recent posts, and then you shall certainly see my stance and justification for so. Firstly, I never dropped my case on CF7. I merely was confronting conq due to the proposed 1v1 between me and him sourced to roleshens (which is something that you, Dorian, ignored completely in regards for your sanity). And I personally dropped it later and providing an explaination, which is that during our argument I realized I could've been roleblocked and the intital reason for a 1v1 to be taking place: conq and DNA's nightaction claims are impossible to happen together if they are alone, being false and therefore the subsequent debate has no need to resume. This is also further proven by oarfish's claim of that shadoweh visiting conq during the night and possibly interfering with either of our results.

But since you need to forsake everything about roleshens in regards for your sanity, I am sorry I have brought this up in the first place. You know, so like you have lost your sanity that is sanity sanity something?
Sorry for being scarastic but I believe that its well worth the mockery for role interactions are an intergral part of mafia argument.

Second point, lining up mislynches:
The above mentioned line about Cheez and Dormio is only one of three attempts to setup false dichotomys, the other two are ?here? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061561.html#msg1061561) and ?here? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1061566.html#msg1061566). What made him think that Cheez waffling has any compelling implications on Dormios alignment? And when he really saw an implication, then why haven't he considered the possibility of town Dormio a bit more? No, he rather went into the next one: ?IF dormio flips town CF7 is confscum? and that's because: ? CF7 for one is a sore thumb for stating both lynches are delicious and then tryharding plopping his vote on dormio, my instincts are screaming that he's scum looking to save paladin's ass? and ?If Dorm flips town sky is scum, if sky flips town dorm is scum, not that sure on the latter, but the former is almost most certainly true.? and if both flip town then CF7 is apparently scum nevertheless cause that's the vote you started the day with.
Sincerely, if that wasn't meant to paint someone red in case the other flips fist then I have no idea what it meant at all.
Sincerely, I also have no idea if you ignoring my later apology and explaination of that I was incapable of posting well formulated responses in the face of the greatly disunadvantageous situation to me D1 and to properly acknowledge the situation I was in at that point to accept that the hammer is justified ages ago....Well, I have a question, is your sanity that important? Because right now I am losing mine. For that you are telling us to ignore every response and role interaction in lieu of trusting your crackpot theories, I am sorry, but I cannot oblige.

And finally the third point, his over defensive position:
I already pointed out how disconnected his suspicions are from a town perspective, now lets try to reconnect them in a scum perspective. First, it's a interesting fact that he dropped Cheez just at the time when said one voted Dormio, the same goes for the sudden suspicions on Oarfish and Shadoweh. I already said what I think about his Dormio vote and his end of day vote pattern is nothing less than cheerful notme over me wagon hopping.
Ninjas first vote this day may be the only halfway consistent thing he had done all game if he wouldn't have dropped supposed ?confirmed scum? to entertain us with excessive ITP panic which he then also dropped to sheep exactly the one he supposed as SK before.


Conclusion: my vote stays where it is.

PS: that was torture and I somehow got the feeling that I was cut by something even more disturbing but I'm in for a drink anyway.^^;;
PPS: Good, at least it wasn't a hammer and to make sure that it stays that way ##: Unvote
OMG its finally about over.
There are two things I would like to address in this third point.
One, him saying we should look at everything DNA did as scum, AKA through biasedness, so that his stuff can make sense
Two, him saying me pursuing on CF7 and Cheez are the same as Conq.

Now, first things first, YOU, DORIANO, are the one ignoring EVERY SINGLE ROLE INTERACTION AND MY RESPONSES, YOU, DORIANO, are ALSO the one FORCING YOUR ARGUMENTS TO MAKE SENSE BY TELLING US TO IGNORE SAID ROLE INTERACTION AND RESPONSES. And finally, YOU , DORIANO, are THE ONE AND ONLY GUY SAYING WE SHOULD IGNORE EVERY SINGLE ROLESPEC IN A LIKELY ROLEMADNESS SETUP

Excuse me but my patience is wearing thin.
what the fuck is that point about ignoring roleshens for sanity, you are completely abusing that and your ignorance in my responses to force rubbish on me.

Second point says that CF7 and Cheez case are same as me pursuing conq. What the hell? Conq case was a thing because as I have mentioned alot-of-times already, I was working on a wrong assumption. I wasn't intentional on making this wrong assumption. And I corrected and explained my mistake. Again and again. While you ignored all those times I responded to the conflict between me and conq, again and again. You aren't ignoring only roleshens, but also my defenses, so that your arguments can make sense. Seriously, what the hell

CF7 and Cheez claimed. This is role interaction, this role interaction involves 3 pages from roughly page 19 to page 21 so read it yourself.

Fuck this is stupid bullshit
Althought I must give you cred for making something okay out of the shit position you are in Doriano
 

-----
Cut by 4 replies
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 06:21:32 PM
...
Enlighten me. What does a trapper do? (and why did everything apparently revolve around Shadoweh last night)

Also I don't know if it's exactly a counterclaim or not with all of these deaths flying around.

Also, this is, uh, basically the first time I've dealt with the Jailer role. Now that I can ask, I should be trying to protect active contributors who don't have power roles, right? Or should I be using it to roleblock people I don't trust every so often, even if I risk accidentally saving them?

cut by- okay there's no way I can read all of that and still make it to class in time. Be back in a few hours.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 15, 2014, 06:28:05 PM
Trapper means the first person to visit who I targeted gets hit. I forgot to mention that.
Like I said, I don't know who I actually hit, so I couldn't actually help piece together what happened last night.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 06:42:15 PM
I'm the one-shot trapper. I'm pretty much guaranteed to be the fourth NK from last night.
I decided to give it to Shadoweh because I figure town roles are the least likely to target her.
I'm not told when, if, or who sets off my Trap, so I don't actually know who I killed, but I asked yesterday while we were discussing things, and Raikaria confirmed that because of how my ability works, it has highest priority in move order.

More comedy gold massclaim

But before I get onto that let me clarify, I am saying Doriano's rubbish case is okay for the standards of rubbish, I am NOT SAYING THAT I ACCEPT HIS LOGIC, BECAUSE IF I DON'T SAY THIS NOW YOU LAZY PEOPLE WHO GO IGNORE MY ENTIRE WALL WILL JUMP ON ME FOR SAYING THAT. BECAUSE DORIANO'S LOGIC INVOLVE CALLING US TO IGNORE EVERY SINGLE ROLESHEN AND MY DEFENSES, AT THE VERY FIRST SENTENCE.

AND I have already told you even if I am lying as the doctor, which I am not, its irrelevant because time will tell. So the exchange between doriano and me are only good to prove that he's scum who's diverting attention from things which matter.

Let's get back to Zak.

Basically, if zak's claim is true, night actions go like this.

Zak traps Shadoweh, Shadoweh is now a bomb
Cheez jails Shadoweh (bomb), persumably failed, bomb failed to trigger at all
Oarfish tracks Shadoweh (the bomb), sees him visiting conq normally like a boss.
I protected conq, failed
conq's bpv triggered?

So what's wrong in this? I am feeling especially mashocistic today and will therefore sort out all the assumed scenarios for you if everyone's claims are true.

Firstly, Zak's trap goes in highest priority, meaning it overrides even roleblock and jailing.

Hence, if his claim is true, Cheez must be dead already, but Cheez is alive. So Zak has to be lying
-----
Secondly,  if Cheez is a jailer, he roleblocked and protected shadoweh persumably because Cheez claimed he did so
Shadoweh still took action, which is tracked by oarfish, and oarfish has no contradictory role shenegans involved, so he can be trusted.
So Cheez's action must've failed due to a roleblock or busdrive, I shall disprove why cheez is lying also after I illustrate conq's situation
----
Conq is supposedly targetted by 3 people, Doctor(me), Bodyguard(Shadoweh), Killer (SK)
Since conq's bpv triggered in lieu of me and shadow's supposed protection, it means that we are both disabled, a strongman in this scenario is impossible because strongman means certain death. This isn't Rho Aius, you don't block strongman kills with one or two more layers of shields.

So basically, what scum did has to be something like this.
Roleblock or busdrive (the Doctor DNA)/ Roleblock or busdrive (the Bodyguard Shadoweh)/Roleblock or busdrive(the Tracker Cheez)

......
It doesn't really make sense now, does it. And by that I mean its fucking impossible because come on now.

As a result, just merely observing from roleshens alone, we can most definitely conclude zak is lying, and that shadoweh and cheez8 are also likely to be both lying at once or one of them is bluffing
Before Doriano asks, Where is CF7 in your cases Darkninja? You are dropping him! I would like to remind him again CF7 is already confirmed scum with reasons refer to pages 19-21, now leave me alone ty.

Oh right where are we at, why shadoweh and cheez8 are both lying.

Basically, Cheez8 gave alot of incriminating logic and material which adds me to my distrust, which is the nail in the coffin on top of the already overwhelming edvidence of nightactions. For details please again kindly refer to pages 19-21.
(Dude I am literally bored at pointing at those two)

Shadoweh is lying by means of exclusion in terms of exclusion by night actions, details please refer to .....I don't really recall. But just read through D2 again, its definitely worth the read and your time.
-------
And Doriano is a VT in this setup? lolnope
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 15, 2014, 06:42:34 PM
3am in here, good night.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 15, 2014, 06:53:35 PM
Okay. Now that i wasted my one shot ability just to get my point across i guess i feel a little bit better. I won't say anything about any claims, because my is just ridiculous and scummy, so i can judge other claims and i'll leave it to somebody else. And since this debacle is hopefully over, i guess i'll reread all this mess again. Zak claim is kind of suspicious tho. And his sort of lurking behaviour earlier is not in his favor.(Now Darkie is going to say, that it's BS and i'm just jumping at random people).

Cut by wall. This is so dwarven. We're building walls.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 06:53:49 PM
It's possible that Dan triggered the trap. He was scumreading Shadoweh yesterday iirc?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 15, 2014, 07:33:24 PM
Did anyone NOT target me last night? <_<
i am not awake enough for this
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 15, 2014, 08:43:06 PM
? So you are going to ignore your scumbuddies futzed up claim and backtrack on things? That's so absolutely helpful and not wasting more time diverting attention from the currently super condemning edvidence that is impossible claims. Moreover, my claim logic is easy. Its just outright unreasonable and insane for CF7 to be town doublevoter, that's it.
Oh, you overrated my ability to write such a wall in time that you think it could be an reaction to any thing that happened lately.^^; Also, have you heard about a concept called context? If I make a case on you based on your content then the role claims of other player are of course irrelevant, which doesn't mean that I ignore them. I mean what role implication are there that could affect my read on you anyway? You claimed Doc which is still unproven, Period. You misrepresentation attempt is noticed
Also do you seriously suggest that CF7 is a scum doublevoter with additional chicagovoter as safe claim? Good, we talk about a setup made by Raikaria here, but seriously?

However, this have to do as response for now. You already pointed out that I'm still lacking the bigger picture and I'm sure you will understand that I have better things to do than to engage myself in ?another  time wasting quote war?.
Don't worry, I'll get back to you in good time.^^
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 08:52:14 PM
Anyway I'm the Town Jack of All Trades. I have a Doc/Vig/Cop. I used my Doc night 1 protecting DNA because doc claim, even if his end of phase conduct was really weird I figured the mafia would at least go for the doctor. :/

The vig shot was what made me skeptical of Conq being hit (ANOTHER KILL), and I'm pretty sure I crumbed the fact I had a shot several times .
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 10:00:12 PM
christ, what the fuck is this setup.

if zak is telling the truth about his trap then dan getting killed somehow by the trap is the only scenario that makes sense. admittedly from there I can't really make sense of what happened. dan cheez and oarfish targeted shadoweh and shadoweh was somehow redirected from darkninja to me, but only dan died? that implies the redirect was on the darkninja end (suggesting bus driver) but bussing me and darkninja doesn't make sense and there's still the issue of cheez jailing shadoweh. i have no idea how shadoweh was both roleblocked and tracked at the same time, meaning more redirect shenanigans or lying somewhere, but zak claiming to trap shadoweh means that anyone attempting to manipulate shadoweh on her end would have probably died but instead only dan died?

in conclusion, fuck roles. now we just need serela to claim to complete the madness.

shadoweh is probably sk tbh; bodyguard in this setup is kinda lol with sb's claim just now.

have not read the massive wall wars before this post and i get the feeling i dont want to.

dorian, what do you think about not!darkninja? also did this result in anything?
Next in line to my interest are Zakeri and Shadoweh, mostly because I doesn?t remember anything they did.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 10:02:30 PM
I'm pretty sure I crumbed the fact I had a shot several times .
Could you point your crumbs out just for completion's sake?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 10:05:59 PM
except shadoweh can't be sk because cheez claimed to have jailed shadoweh??????

SB, why not use the cop n1?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 10:09:46 PM
I thought the doctor was gonna get killed, so it seemed like an obvious decision to protect him.

There's been no CC and there are AT LEAST 4 killing roles. Something has to stop them.
(i feel like this setup would make more sense if conq is scum, 4+nightkills is sort of ridiculous)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 10:11:43 PM
I'm pretty sure there's a 1v1 between Cheez and O4rfish though so I dunno if we should ignore roles entirely?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 10:13:07 PM
darkninja, i read your latest posts against all warning and what I see is
1) zak is lying
2) cheez is lying
3) shadoweh is lying
4) cf7 is confirmed scum
5) dorian is scum diverting attention from things that matter

I am pretty darn confident that there are not 5 scum in this setup. Also, everyone that disagrees with you isn't necessarily scum. Do you genuinely believe everyone you're calling scum now is scum because I can't tell.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 10:16:45 PM
...aaagh

Nothing makes sense anymore. Normally I end up believing all claimed actions with a grain of salt but this is just impossible to make sense of. I need help.

except shadoweh can't be sk because cheez claimed to have jailed shadoweh??????
According to Oarfish she ended up visiting you anyway though, and at this point things have reached a point where somebody absolutely has to be lying and my money is on either Oarfish or Shadoweh to start with. If you ended up hurt, either Shadoweh didn't visit you or Shadoweh isn't a bodyguard.

My money's on Oarfish lying and Shadoweh didn't visit you after all, because according to Darkie, somebody already roleblocked him and I do NOT want to have to factor in the possibility of a bus driver to this mess

I'm pretty sure there's a 1v1 between Cheez and O4rfish though so I dunno if we should ignore roles entirely?
Probably, and I think there's a 1v1 between Shadoweh and Oarfish too.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 10:18:18 PM
I'm pretty sure there's a 1v1 between Cheez and O4rfish though so I dunno if we should ignore roles entirely?
See here's the thing; I don't see Oarfish!scum coming out with a fake track like that, nor do I see Cheez!scum faking a jail on someone who was publically tracked (unless he forgot?). Even if there's a scum between them, I feel like there are other role shenanigans involved in this. I'd have to reread both players' play to be sure though.

Also, Oarfish, when you got your track result, were you told that Shadoweh visited me, or that your track target did? I'm assuming the former, right?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 10:21:40 PM
Maybe Shadoweh is Strongwilled Mafia or SK? Strongman wouldn't fit since Conq would just sort of be dead right now but she would still get around Cheez's Jailkeeper.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 10:22:41 PM
Yeah, I was just about to post that. Strongwilled SK makes sense since I still don't think she's mafia and I think it makes more sense for mafia to have shot sky_paladin instead of me.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 10:27:06 PM
I guess we could use my role to prove Cheez's? I shoot at him and he hooks me and we see if he turns up dead or not.

Maybe we should just go back to scumhunting over rolegaming.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 10:30:16 PM
...Huh. I didn't know "strongwilled" was anything that actually existed. So, basically, would that mean Shadoweh's kill would be ensured to go through no matter what, but she's still susceptible to other roles?

If so that would be great if that whole mess actually works out. One less thing to boggle my mind.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 10:31:54 PM
I guess we could use my role to prove Cheez's? I shoot at him and he hooks me and we see if he turns up dead or not.
Given the likelihood of antitown interference I'd rather you just use the cop because, well, cop.

Maybe we should just go back to scumhunting over rolegaming.
Yeah. I think Dorian is a good vote; I'm not convinced his tunnel on darkninja is genuine.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 10:32:38 PM
strongwilled roles cannot fail (go through hooks/safeguards, sometimes redirects too) but a strongwilled kill can still be protected from etc
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 10:36:09 PM
Nothing Dorian's posted has stuck out to me so far, although that's not really a good thing I suppose. NNR's one post stuck out like a sore thumb though (and the claim is urk too I guess.)

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 10:38:01 PM
strongwilled roles cannot fail (go through hooks/safeguards, sometimes redirects too) but a strongwilled kill can still be protected from etc
I see.

Also, I'm fine with you testing my claim. Please let me know whether you're using your cop or your kill on me, though! I'll need to know how to cooperate.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 15, 2014, 11:16:55 PM
...
dorian, what do you think about not!darkninja? also did this result in anything?
Unfortunately not much, that Ninja case took me longer than I expected, so I didn't came around to read Shadoweh yet.
And the Zakeri read wasn't actual that productive but there is one thing that makes me wonder, that he was too quiet in the NK discussion when you think about his claim. I mean that he lurks is nothing new but he never struck me as the kind of guy who would hold back vital information if he's town and to know the origin of the third NK is a vital information. His one-shot role had already fulfilled it's purpose so why still keeping it a secret?
Also, why wasn't there even the slightest reaction to O4rfishs tracking result? Doesn't his action lead to the assumption that tracking Shadowh would be fatal?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 15, 2014, 11:27:21 PM
...
Yeah. I think Dorian is a good vote; I'm not convinced his tunnel on darkninja is genuine.
Oh, is there a specific reason why you think so or is it just gut?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 11:29:19 PM
Gut, mostly. It felt like you went through all his posts with the idea of painting him as scum instead of evaluating them with a neutral mindset and coming to the conclusion naturally.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 11:30:49 PM
And the Zakeri read wasn't actual that productive but there is one thing that makes me wonder, that he was too quiet in the NK discussion when you think about his claim. I mean that he lurks is nothing new but he never struck me as the kind of guy who would hold back vital information if he's town and to know the origin of the third NK is a vital information. His one-shot role had already fulfilled it's purpose so why still keeping it a secret?
Also, why wasn't there even the slightest reaction to O4rfishs tracking result? Doesn't his action lead to the assumption that tracking Shadowh would be fatal?
Although this is actually a good and valid point.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 11:39:31 PM
##Unvote
##Vote: Zakeri

I think I want to do this actually, based on what Dorian brought up. Jailkeeper is bound to go before cop in action resolution, so I don't see what possible action resolution would have Dan dying last night and not a hypothetical redirector/bus driver.

His play is very sideliney too.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 15, 2014, 11:43:30 PM
EBWOP: Plus I just realized he got through all this role discussion without having any real scum opinions except vote nnr. And he thinks darkninja is town.

##Vote: NekoNekoRex reasoning has made no changes since last time I voted except for intensifying.
would also want clarification on what this meant because i have no idea how your original reasoning could have intensified given nnr posted literally nothing.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 15, 2014, 11:58:36 PM
...Huh, that's true. I'm normally not fond of voting for people because of inactivity, but that post you quoted makes it seem like he wasn't even reading the game.

It'd sure be convenient if he's scum too, because that trap thing is the only claim I had hoped was a lie not because of contradictions, but because I couldn't make heads or tails of how it would or wouldn't fit in with rest of the night actions.

In fact, ##Vote: Zakeri before I can convince myself otherwise. At least until he can prove he's awake and worth trusting.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 15, 2014, 11:59:00 PM
Pretty much in agreement on Dorian's point there, although I would say CF7 is in a similar situation wrt Dormio yesterday.

serela please tell me your claim won't confuse me even more when I get up

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 16, 2014, 12:05:30 AM
Gut, mostly. It felt like you went through all his posts with the idea of painting him as scum instead of evaluating them with a neutral mindset and coming to the conclusion naturally.
Let me say it like that, that guy has currently two town reads (O4rfishs and you) and the rest are either scum reads he want's to lynch or null reads where he's also willing to lynch them on policy. So, yes I have indeed a hard time to see that naturally.

...
##Unvote
##Vote: Zakeri

...
Why didn't I think of voting myself? maybe because it's 1AM and I'm not sober.^^;;

##Vote: Zakeri
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 16, 2014, 12:08:41 AM
As a heads up Zakeri isn't that far from me considering replacement for him himself. I was likly going to prod him tomorrow morning.

Votecount of the Steel Pike

Dorian (1):  Zakeri
Darkninjaabc (3): Shadoweh;  CF7; CF7
CF7 (2): SB; Darkninjaabc
Shadoweh (1): O4rfish
Zakeri (3): Conq; Cheez8; Dorian

Not Voting (1): Serela

With 11 votes in play it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140117T0953&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+2
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 16, 2014, 12:14:50 AM
I'm just posting to confirm that I've read over all the actions and I'm still not sure what the hell is going on. I at least got back confirmation that Conq's BP would have stopped me from dying, since he wouldn't die when he was killed. That still doesn't explain.. literally everything else?

There are literally three actions on me that can't have happened, I was tracked to somewhere I wasn't going, blocked when I was seen somewhere else, and trapped when it would have killed either the person who redirected me or the roleblock. I'm just going to throw up my hands and wait for Serela to claim Kyuubi.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 01:02:29 AM
I'm back from work everyone!

Guess what my role is?

I'll give you a hint. It's one-shot randomizes the targets of everyone's night actions.

Actually that's not exactly a hint, but yes, watching this has been utter glory I have no regrets
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 01:03:01 AM
...yeah, no, I'm vanilla town. (This is my actual serious claim, I'm VT.)

:C
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 16, 2014, 01:31:43 AM
So, I've looked over things, and in short Shadoweh claims to have protected Conqueror long after we've confirmed that Conqueror wasn't actually protected?
And that Cheez8 jailkept Shadoweh, except Oarfish proved that Shadoweh was not roleblocked? (Or at the very least that the roleblock didn't go through?)
A bus Driver usually targets the people for switching, so if Shadoweh is telling the turth then that means Darkie and Conqueror were targeted by it, not Shadoweh, so I wouldn't have hit the busser.
Cop going before Tracker makes sense, but Vig doesn't which means I ended up killing Dan despite trying to do the opposite of that.

The thing that makes the least amount of sense is Cheez8's jailkeep on Shadoweh because my Trap and Oarfish's Track both prove that that didn't happen at all.
##Unvote
##Vote: Cheez8


Quote
I mean that he lurks is nothing new but he never struck me as the kind of guy who would hold back vital information if he's town and to know the origin of the third NK is a vital information. His one-shot role had already fulfilled it's purpose so why still keeping it a secret?
I wasn't keeping it a secret, the idea of claiming didn't occur until after I left for bed last night. Also my claim didn't really add anything until massclaim happened, everybody had already figured out there were four possible NKs on night one. Besides, "I shot somebody but I don't know who" doesn't really feel like a good way of confirming my status as functionally vanilla town.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 16, 2014, 01:34:15 AM
Like, the only way Cheez8 can be town is if Shadoweh somehow counter-roleblocks roleblockers but does nothing against investigation roles.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 01:57:30 AM
I don't know if voting people based entirely off the night shenanigans is reliable considering almost none of the night action results make sense >_>;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 16, 2014, 02:00:47 AM
That, or the trap thing didn't actually happen.

As much as I'd like to entertain role nonsense that's so involved you'd have to know this game's order of operations to figure it out, why don't you try to explain why your posts don't make you scum? There are already a couple very good points that you're ignoring.

Cut by someone who has the right idea. Seriously.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: WHMZakeri on January 16, 2014, 02:15:11 AM
Honestly, this game is hard enough to read as is, anyways.

I can't tell what I missed but I'll look.
Quote
would also want clarification on what this meant because i have no idea how your original reasoning could have intensified given nnr posted literally nothing.
NNR posting literally nothing was what intensified it. That's also why I didn't feel the need to expand or restate it.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 16, 2014, 02:25:10 AM
Your original reasoning had nothing to do with NNR not saying things though. It had to do with what SB said about what little NNR did say.

Also, I don't think you're exactly in a position to use that argument yourself. You're not doing that good a job at convincing me here.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 16, 2014, 02:39:43 AM
Oh right, there's also...
I wasn't keeping it a secret, the idea of claiming didn't occur until after I left for bed last night. Also my claim didn't really add anything until massclaim happened, everybody had already figured out there were four possible NKs on night one. Besides, "I shot somebody but I don't know who" doesn't really feel like a good way of confirming my status as functionally vanilla town.
When you compare what we would have learned with what you would be risking, it doesn't make too much sense to hide it. At the very least, once Oarfish brought up tracking Shadoweh, shouldn't you have figured the possibility of figuring out what the trap actually accomplished (or letting us know where the third kill came from) was more important than concealing your functional vanilla townie status? It's not like you would have had much of a reason to keep your role under wraps anymore.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 03:25:43 AM
Guys, I don't like dwelling on possibilities, lets just make this clear cut.
From top to bottom are townest to scumminest ppl
1.Dark-doctor
2.Conq-bpv
3.Oarfish-tracker
4.SB-joat
5.Sahdoweh-bodyguard
6.Cheez-jailkeep
7.Serela-vanilla
8.Dorian-vanilla
9.CF7-Doublevoter
10.Zak-Bombmaker

Zak is SK because he feesed up kill responsibility while telling us his trap target being shadoweh. His claim however is impossible due to that his trap (sourced from Zak himself) has highest priority, meaning it even overrides the next fastest priority roles (AKA Jailkeep and roleblocker). But Cheez, despite lacking in any form of protection and was sure to be the first who hit Zak didn't die.
Zak claim is false.

CF7 claims to be a doublevoter, which can be either alignment. However, D1 dormio also claimed a similar role. But CF7 never voiced his inquiry nor voted for dormio. (Or he did but didn't make it an intergral part of his case when it should be)
Instead, he insisted on pushing and voting the claimed doc, going so far as to even pop his doublevote on the said doc.


his mentality and track record contradicts directly with that of a townie, so he's scum


More later brb/
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 04:01:54 AM
Quote
But Cheez, despite lacking in any form of protection and was sure to be the first who hit Zak didn't die.
Zak claim is false.
Don't know where you think you're getting these kinds of information?

ActionDan probably targetted Shadoweh and died.

Or there was even more shenanigans. Because Cheez clearly did not manage to Jail Shadoweh in the first place, so it's silly you're even assuming Cheez ACTUALLY hit Shadoweh. It's difficult to assume anything off of n1's actions because half of them didn't seem to do what they were supposed to, and we have no idea what the hell was going on. Don't frame people off these things we don't understand. The non-fessing-up on trapping Shadoweh and probably killing someone because of it is legit.

Assuming Shadoweh is maf with a high-priority kill who went after Conq is an interesting idea, but not reliable enough to bank on, etc

I'd probably be voting CF7 if I was voting (been kind of busy) but Zakeri over the non-claiminess wouldn't be half bad either? (Not as though he's particularly townie apart from it) Not really interested in other lynch options for today. The cheez wagon is, again, based on assuming we actually can rely on anything that supposedly happened last night.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 04:02:22 AM
wait why aren't I voting

##Vote CF7

sheeping SB's case because he made it before I did
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 16, 2014, 04:11:35 AM
Oh my beard, so much madness. Welcome to Dorf Fort Mafia, hope you like miasma!
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 16, 2014, 04:16:37 AM
Cheez8 has to be lying. Jailer has higher priority over cop, which means he would have been killed by Zak.
Zak is probably SK, since his kill has first activation meaning third-party.

I'd prefer to vote Cheez8 over CF7, but either one has a good case for scumminess. Anyways, with all this craziness I can't strongly disbelieve Shadoweh anymore.
##Unvote

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 05:27:40 AM
Cheez8 has to be lying. Jailer has higher priority over cop, which means he would have been killed by Zak.
Zak is probably SK, since his kill has first activation meaning third-party.
"Cheez8 must be lying, because Zak is not town and lied about his role that he's also telling the truth about."

You start assuming things, but the thing is, the information you're using... the conclusion reached means that the information is very untrustable. The entire thing falls apart.

People need to stop rolegaming because we don't have a solid base to start rolegaming things off of.

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 05:32:38 AM
Argh, you guys are not utilizing the massclaim goodness.

Let's look at why cheez has to be scum.
In N1, Oarfish saw shadoweh visiting conq. While Cheez should've jailed shadoweh already. So there's a contradiction, and what follows is that things did not go all as they intended.

So basically, in order for the above scenario to happen as Shadoweh being a bodyguard and Cheez being an actual jailkeep. Scum is required to roleblock me. A second roleblock on cheez and the busdrive on shadoweh. But that would leave no room for them to use the factional kill which is again contradictory to the flips, not to mention 2 roleblocks and 1 busdrive are outright impossible anyway.

As we had two deaths overnight it is certain scum killed paladin, whether they already used a roleblock on paladin is unclear. But let's assume that they haven't for the sake of assumtion and giving them the credit of doubt. Moreover, whether scum roleblock goes faster than town jailkeep is also unclear, but's let's just also give cheez the credit of doubt.

But then there leaves me as the odd thumb out, because I have definitely protected conqueror, and I claimed well before anyone did and demonstrated much lack of care in claiming my protection targets. And simply concluding from sheer possibility, my claim and actions which were claimed before anyone else did have to be true.

Yet however! Even if the highly unlikely scenario DID happen. And that assuming everything had happened as they theorized, we would have a town roster like this;
1. doc -DNA
2 tracker-oarfish
3. bulletproof-conq
4. joat- SB
5. jailer- cheez
6. bodyguard-shadoweh
-7.vanilla-serela
8. vanilla-dorian
As you can see from this list, which have already excluded CF7 and Zak for they are confirmed. Is the entireity of players already. So by exclusion, either one or both of the conlicted PRs have to be lying.

I, personally, am more willing to see Cheez as the liar, because while we can have 4 maximum nightkills, they are all persumably going to happen on night 1 and is going to lead to a massclaim like what's happening currently. The doc, jailer and joat can completely mess with scum and isolate the sk. This is a worst possible scenario which is an intergral concern in modding philosophy, so a Jailer is impossible.
Now, let's exclude Cheez from the town roster either, we have a list like this.
1.doc
2.bpv
3.joat
4.tracker
5.bodyguard
6.vt
7.vt
And giving them the credit of doubt and assume they are town whatever. We just have to sort out nightactions.

cut by Serela
You are hilarious, I pointed my logic out in my walls, and I repeated it many, many times. This post is probably the most concise version of my logic, typed up by yours truly for teaching Serela how to count 1 2 3. Please read warmly while asking me questions.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 05:34:09 AM
Whoops sorry I thought serela was directing that attack to me like everyone and I responded in reflex almost instaneously. :V

Yeah I admit the logic in oarfish's post is wrong, which is why I am clearing things up personally in the above wall. Sorry Serely
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 05:38:09 AM
er, if that was too vague; without getting into the Cheez8 part (basically, we can't even assume cheez8 even hit Shadoweh at all last night, or that Zakeri's trap hit Shadoweh either) just on Zakeri, you're assuming he's third party based on what he claimed.

But, if Zak is third party, there's no reason to believe the role he claimed is actually his killing method. (the one shot part at the very least would have to be a lie; but the entire thing very well could be.)

Too many of the actions from last night very obviously didn't work as we've been told, so we just can't trust that any of them did as said. We don't know the setup.

Cut by Darkie. Skimmed. Don't care. Night actions are too much of a mess, almost anyone could be lying and there's multiple ways the scumteam could have acted to screw things up, and there very well may be an unconventional role screwing it all up.

Gaming. Setups. Is. Risky.

Gaming the setup when you only have one night of actions and they don't make the slightest bit of sense sends the risk into "why the fuck are you even trying" territory.

If anything that's been assumed is wrong, which is highly likely, you pretty much just took a blind shot in the dark with the lynch.

Let's, you know, lynch people the standard way. CF7 and Zakeri have done some scummy shit, let's lynch them. Game the setup later when there's more flips for confirmed roles and more sets of night action data to look at.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 05:38:52 AM
MotK has a lot lot lot of games where town tried to game the setup and it blew up in their faces, let's not add another.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 05:44:10 AM
Oh wait I forgot something important.
 
If Cheez is speaking the truth, then....
Basically shadoweh is seen protecting conq but it failed, so not only he only busdriven, he would also need to have roleblocked or scum had a strongwilled killer. Else conq's bpv wouldn't have shattered

I would prefer to just pass divine judgement and end this notion for being silly already, but let's assume for the sake of roleshens anyway and go all the way fuck.

Choose third scum ability, roleblock or strongwill? Strongwill is more likely, and it should be on CF7 considering he has proven hes a doublevoter and probably don't have much influence in night actions himself, so the mod gave him a strongwill to toy with. Besides, if we also give the third scum roleblock it would be all three scums can roleblock AND busdrive while killing. which is lolnope.

This is the second piece of proof to exclusion theory pointing to cheez being scum. On top of the first proof that is balance issues concerning jailer and doctor.


Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 05:50:37 AM
If I wanted to try and make a not-town off just these messed up night actions I guess I'd probably say Zak/Shadoweh/Cheez, with one of them being third party. But yeah. I don't trust conclusions from these night actions.

Both a doctor/jailor existing at once is a legitimate point of suspicion against Cheez, especially when considering how end of D1 went down with a claiming doc, but with 3 attempted kills last night and scum likely having at least 2 out of roleblocker/busdriver/immunizedkillingthingamajigger it might actually be real. I'unno. Would rather wait somewhat on lynching Cheez purely off of it.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 05:51:23 AM
SHUT UP AND STOP ROLESHENS

wait what.
I was giving scum every credit of doubt, serela.

unlike you who would like to dwell endlessly on paradoxes and assume everyone isn't lying, I took the realistic approach and factored in that ''something has to do what scum did'', instead of ''let's just try to fit in everything town did with claims''. Because the former is what town does, and the latter is a scum tatic to sort of make sense with their role.

Since we agree on zak and cf7 being sk and scum respectively whatever I won't dwell on that.

But the claims and nightactions by cheez and shadoweh are literally impossible to happen together. Because it would still be false even if we have the assumptions of scum can kill while using ability and that cheez jailkeep go faster than scum roleblock which makes scum pathetically weak. There is still the contradiction scum has 3 roleblocks, 1 busdrive and has to be strong willed.

Factoring out cheez because of his impossible role and the aforementioned contradiction would leave us with 2 roleblocks, 1 busdrive and strongwill modified scum. Which is at least POSSIBLE.

So tldr I don't understand your justification in ignoring roleshens, its delicious
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 16, 2014, 05:52:20 AM
MotK has a lot lot lot of games where town tried to game the setup and it blew up in their faces, let's not add another.
Hoiy shit Serela is that really you?  :o

Needless to say though that I agree since none of this role stuff is making sense. There's not enough confirmed information.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 05:55:02 AM
Dude, my roleshens are all made under the assumption most benefitial to scum and put every unconfirmed factor in their favour, but even so its still impossible.

Although it is going to be messy but I beg of you guys to try and follow roleshens, its like eating crabs, once you get past the shell you reach the delicious heavenly glory nobody else would be able to get

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 05:57:08 AM
With how Serela is acting now basically I now have a reason to somewhat trust shadoweh more with his bodyguard claim.

because holy shit serela making common sense.
By any degree, cf7/cheez/ dorian or serela being scumteam is confirmed
and Zak fessing up for responsibility in the kill also just points to him being sk because scum most certainly won't do that.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 05:57:52 AM
With how Serela is acting now basically I now have a reason to somewhat trust shadoweh more with his bodyguard claim.

because holy shit serela making common sense.
By any degree, cf7/cheez/ dorian or serela being scumteam is confirmed
and Zak fessing up for responsibility in the kill also just points to him being sk because scum most certainly won't do that.

FAKE EDIT: By any degree cf7/cheez/ dorian or serela or shadoweh being scumteam is confirmed
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 06:01:10 AM
aww jeez I stayed up until 1am again, going to bed after this post

Quote
unlike you who would like to dwell endlessly on paradoxes and assume everyone isn't lying
Only time I did that was when advocating massclaim.

Conq:Gaming the setup when you can is something you can't just not do, but the thing is, you -can't- reliably try to game the setup with information that's this convoluted :V

Darkie how about you bring it up again tomorrow? There'll probably be like three more flips, maybe one will even be not-town, and another set of night actions to compare with. Trying to make any sense of things will be much, much easier and more reliable compared to how it is right now.

Although, if people other then me think consolidating onto Cheez with you is a good idea, then :shrug: I've voiced my discontent, so my resistance is about over!

cut by why are all these serious scumteam sets even... nevermind. Going. To. Bed. It's mind-boggling that I'm actually being assumed scum by Darkie just because I'm saying the massively convoluted mess that was n1 isn't good to try to rolegame off.  :getdown:
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 06:02:18 AM
oops I tried to use the :getdown: emoticon after disabling emoticons so the :V wouldn't turn into one
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 16, 2014, 06:03:40 AM
Darkie, I don't even know what to say about you anymore. Words fail me. I'm just going to ask why you keep insisting -anybody- is confirmed scum. You've done that to at least four different players during this game (probably more) and you're currently doing that to somebody with a double vote.

Why.

Also you bring up balance issues to peg me as scum but allow me to remind you that
1) all three factions in this game have kills that could all happen each and every night
2) you are far from being the towniest player in this game and nobody, least of all me, is obligated to trust you

I can see the possible necessity of an extra protective role that isn't just a one-shot deal. That's the main reason I've ever kept from voting you today, in fact. But your logic is absolutely horrid and you continue to push whoever you fancy with such a smug, disrespectful attitude, evidently without allowing yourself to consider any alternatives to what you accept as "confirmed", even if those alternatives are much more rational than the supposed truth you present.

I find it hard to believe that the only full protective role in this game would be hampered by being a Jailer, especially in a game where the town has so many useful roles.

But you and your behavior are seriously trying my conviction.

I'll read all these cuts later.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 16, 2014, 06:04:09 AM
er, if that was too vague; without getting into the Cheez8 part (basically, we can't even assume cheez8 even hit Shadoweh at all last night, or that Zakeri's trap hit Shadoweh either) just on Zakeri, you're assuming he's third party based on what he claimed.

But, if Zak is third party, there's no reason to believe the role he claimed is actually his killing method. (the one shot part at the very least would have to be a lie; but the entire thing very well could be.)

Too many of the actions from last night very obviously didn't work as we've been told, so we just can't trust that any of them did as said. We don't know the setup.

Cut by Darkie. Skimmed. Don't care. Night actions are too much of a mess, almost anyone could be lying and there's multiple ways the scumteam could have acted to screw things up, and there very well may be an unconventional role screwing it all up.

Gaming. Setups. Is. Risky.

Gaming the setup when you only have one night of actions and they don't make the slightest bit of sense sends the risk into "why the fuck are you even trying" territory.

If anything that's been assumed is wrong, which is highly likely, you pretty much just took a blind shot in the dark with the lynch.

Let's, you know, lynch people the standard way. CF7 and Zakeri have done some scummy shit, let's lynch them. Game the setup later when there's more flips for confirmed roles and more sets of night action data to look at.

Sorry, on phone so quoting whole post.
This is a good point about trusting a third party that I didn't realize earlier. I haven't gone back and examined SB's case on CF7, but I am assuming it is still valid, seeing as it doesn't rely on role interactions.

Still not understanding why there are so many people claiming things that don't straight-up align with what o4rfish claims. Shadoweh, Cheez8, and Zak all claim things that would require some extra stuff to line up. I might even suspect o4rfish, except I 100% know he's telling the truth and is town dwarf furthermore. Cut by 7
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 16, 2014, 06:05:22 AM
Darkninja I have no idea what you're saying since your "confirmed scum" scumteams keep changing every few posts or so.

Here's my take on the role shenanigans. Shadoweh is probably Not A Bodyguard (I have her down as probable SK) since now after the role explosion she's shaking her head and going I DUNNO WHAT HAPPENED. Well shit, none of us do, but at least people are trying to figure stuff out. Plus bodyguard makes as much sense in this setup as in the 3 SK setup.
Zak is probably scum and lying about the specifics of his action. Trapper is the only nonstandard role in this game so far. Yes, I know Raikaria read the previous Dwarf Fortress game here, but it's a hell of a coincidence that after I mentioned Trapper in passing earlier as one of the roles possible for making an extra kill, Zak claims such a role.
Cheez...well, jailer plus doc is pretty funky and there's the contradiction between his and Oarfish and I trust Oarfish more. If I were to lynch solely off role shenanigans I'd start here but I would have to actually reread first to see if it makes any sense at all.  :derp: It's possible that one of the protective claims (jailer/doc/joat) is a scum role, since protection would be incredibly useful for scum in this setup.
That's about as much roleslop as I can manage before the words on my screen start blurring.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 16, 2014, 06:08:20 AM
Zak pushing Cheez solely on rolestuff isn't making me feel better about that lynch fwiw.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 16, 2014, 06:10:08 AM
Also, this is, uh, basically the first time I've dealt with the Jailer role. Now that I can ask, I should be trying to protect active contributors who don't have power roles, right? Or should I be using it to roleblock people I don't trust every so often, even if I risk accidentally saving them?

Wondering: Cheez, what were you aiming for with your Shadoweh jail/why Shadoweh?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 16, 2014, 06:15:52 AM
Wondering: Cheez, what were you aiming for with your Shadoweh jail/why Shadoweh?
Most of it was that I didn't want to roleblock Paladin, and while I didn't really trust you or Darkie and considered roleblocking either of you, I figured I didn't want to accidentally save either of you, either.

That basically narrowed the list down to a bunch of nulls and I looked at it and thought "Well, Shadoweh's a good mafia player. If there's anybody either part of my role would be useful on it's probably her."

If this is a terrible way to play Jailer (and it probably is,) please let me know what the proper way is.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 16, 2014, 06:27:52 AM
There's no proper way, really. Roleblock scum or try to save an important townie, it all depends on context.

Who are you thinking for scum right now, just wondering?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 16, 2014, 06:47:16 AM
Well, at least Zak, but otherwise... Any of Darkie, Shadoweh, or Dorian, I guess, with you being the SK if Shadoweh is scum instead. I'm starting to view Darkie as more and more of a counterclaim especially with the roleblock that he's hogging to explain why his protection didn't go through. Even ignoring anything else, I don't buy Shadoweh's bodyguard claim. While vanilla townies aren't out of the question, Dorian's way of ignoring so many players doesn't really instill confidence, and a VT claim would definitely be an easy way for scum to take advantage of the situation.

You could possibly be scum too but right now I still don't think you're too suspicious for some reason that I really ought to pay more attention to. Oarfish I've been considering on and off but even though the tracker claim sparked a lot of the confusion, their posts don't really seem to have ill intent in them.

Serela is town, SB is probably still town, CF7 is averaging out to null/waffle status for me.

Sorry about posting my reads about every single player, by the way, but it felt good just to be able to ignore role conflict debates for a while, step back, and figure out for myself where I actually stand on things. I kinda got carried away.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 16, 2014, 09:01:22 AM
Votecount of the Cut Garnet

Darkninjaabc (3): Shadoweh;  CF7; CF7
CF7 (3): SB; Darkninjaabc; Serela
Zakeri (3): Conq; Cheez8; Dorian
Cheez8 (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (1): O4rfish

With 11 votes in play it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140117T0953&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+2

24 hours 51 mins remain.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: O4rfish on January 16, 2014, 09:09:32 AM
Hey Raikaria, if we had only nine players alive, and assuming someone was legit double voter, would the extra vote change the req from five votes to six votes?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 16, 2014, 09:52:08 AM
Why do people think I'm actually good at mafia anyways?
Also the last game of mafia I played that is sticking with me involved two fake guilties, I'm all game the setup'd out right now. I'm probably not going to bodyguard anyone anymore since apparently there are more non-mafia killers then there are mafia. >_> Since apparently I'm not TRYING ARD NUFF TO GAME THE SETUP: Zakeri has to be telling the truth because there's no other claimed source of the fourth kill. Cheez's action is possible if Cheez himself was roleblocked and both Dan and Oarf visited me, since they're both investigative they probably both had near-same priority and Dan took precedence because people have to act before Oarfish can see where they're going? Or something like that. My face is still cold from non-blanket exposure.

##Unvote I just woke up from face on keyboard so words are hard but i guess the most likely thing is he ended up targetting himself so, lol?
##Vote: CF7 This is literally the only case that doesn't have the words 'role' involved in them, also if Dark really is town it means he used the confusion to double-vote the doc when there was a good chance of him getting lynched.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 16, 2014, 09:53:58 AM
Hey Raikaria, if we had only nine players alive, and assuming someone was legit double voter, would the extra vote change the req from five votes to six votes?

Yes; since the number of mobile votes in play changes the threshold.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 16, 2014, 11:18:57 AM
...
I wasn't keeping it a secret, the idea of claiming didn't occur until after I left for bed last night. Also my claim didn't really add anything until massclaim happened, everybody had already figured out there were four possible NKs on night one. Besides, "I shot somebody but I don't know who" doesn't really feel like a good way of confirming my status as functionally vanilla town.
Good, given that you thought your role wouldn't add much to the discussion. I can't agree with it but I can understand that to some degree.
What I still don't understand, and that's the point you missed, is your reaction to O4rfishs tracking result. You knew that you turned Shadoweh into a trap, now O4rfishs comes up saying ?I tracked Shadoweh? and all you have been wondering about is who Shadoweh targeted and the implication of a possible busdriver (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1062220.html#msg1062220), which implicates that you never considered the option that O4rfishs could have triggered your trap. The jailkeeper had not claimed anything by that time and I don't think that you considered Dan either, cause if I were as concerned about the "I shot somebody but I don't know who" dilemma as you said you were then I would make sure to accompany my claim with the best guess I could offer but that assumption didn't came from you in the first place.
So, what made you sure that  O4rfishs couldn't have triggered the trap?


@Mod: In which order would the abilities of jailkeeper, tracker and cop occur?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 16, 2014, 11:24:31 AM

@Mod: In which order would the abilities of jailkeeper, tracker and cop occur?


No specific order is required since the roles do not interact; with the exception of Jailer being first since someone who is jailed cannot perform their action.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 16, 2014, 01:26:28 PM
My Shadoweh read isn't going too well but maybe she could help me out there for a change. So, Schadoweh, could you explain what exactly lead you to the decision to protect Ninja?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Shadoweh on January 16, 2014, 01:33:02 PM
Doctor > Bodyguard
I was pretty sure he was lying about self protecting so etc
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 02:46:21 PM
Since roleshens may truly be too far fetched a concept to be put into words, not to mention being untrustworthy (or as untrustworthy as it gets by people dismissing the notion entirely). I am just going to focus on the clear cut, definite things.

And I am sorry for swapping around my scumteam. To explain it simply, roleshens are confusing. Yet however, I do have a definite list of non-town aligned individuals, isolated due to them obviously lying in their roleclaims.

These people are Zak, CF7, Cheez8, Shadoweh and Dorian.

I am going to admit my scumread on Dorian is concluded but from his tunneling behavior on me when I have stated throughout the day multiple times already that it doesn't matter for now, on top of ignoring all my arguments to force a biased case on me while ignoring much of the gamestate. I do not have any role interactions to couple with this read because he claimed VT, which is, as Cheez8 had said, a easy way to escape roleshens. He is my weakest scumread currently.

The Shadoweh scumread is mainly due to how he's still coasting from the aftereffect of his claim, with a complete lack of presentation of anything concerning the big picture. Moreover, his role also ties in with the role conflict that it would require scum sucessfully blocking Cheez8 and bus driving you, blindly. However, since Shadoweh has so little material to be definitive at this point and his role does sound relatively better than a jailerXdoctor combo, so he can verify his claim tonight. He's a scumread but not a priority lynch for me.

Cheez8, the borderline madness roleshens. I believe this is the scum equivalent of counterclaiming me. And from what I do notice about you guys considering this as plausible is due to that my roleshens are bad? I am sorry for that. But still my role speculation sucking doesn't nullify the weight of everything Cheez8 did which are against a town's mind.

Remember the conflict between me and everyone before masslcaiming occured? Basically, a big argument discussed at that point was that the ''doctor'' is still un-counterclaimed asap. And that   if the ''doctor'' is  actually lying, he had better night actions claim instead of saying ''he protected conqueror''. The former argument can be easily disproved if Cheez8 claimed right then,  Cheez have shown over the course of D1 and even till now that he thinks that I am scum, questions my D1 hammer and generally distrusts me entirely.

If Cheez himself is the jailer, that should be an intergral part in any issues regarding protective roles and his protected target specifically. Like Cheez8 should have lashed out at me right off the bat at the start of D2 with a counterclaim. Yes, refer to page 12. Although Cheez DID question the validity of my nightaction choice, he never did take the many times when ''non-cc'd doctor'' is brought up to claim himself. Which is pretty ridiculous considering how completely and utterly he distrusts me which is his obvious stance while Cheez8 should've have himself being jailer as a main part of his concerns.

So basically, I would conclude that he's lying, and is my third strongest scumread. But much like my role, since his claim can actually be verified, we can leave that later. The same logic obviously applies to other claimed town PRs such as the JoaT and tracker. I think we also should start discussing night actions distribution instead of theorizing of who the rest of the scums are right now because, as Serela have said, we probably are gonna have much more information tomorrow.

Even better, with how things are going now its unlikely that I would get killed overnight. Neither would Cheez even if the setup actually is that screwed up and he's also town Jailer.

Let's decide on the lynch today first anyway, CF7 and Zak. Both are lying, one is possibly SK, what do?

Personally, I am inclined to lynch them both today and tomorrow either way, provided that they don't die overnight. and personally I would like CF7 dying first. For my gut with roles thinks that as
CF7 already has a day active, and scum needs at least one roleblock and busdrive to survive in this setup, CF7 could very well be the modified killer.


 
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 04:14:01 PM
I didn't even read the post, but a list of FIVE definitely not-town people obviously went wrong somewhere because we probably only have FOUR definitely not town people >_>;

Besides, one or two people lying about their roleclaims already introduces many realistically possible explanations for what happened last night.

Darkie, I wouldn't consider another protective role to exactly be counterclaiming you, because think about it. Mafia NK, infinite Town Vig, Trapper, Serial Killer, and numerous mafia roles that can probably get around the protective roles in various manners? I'unno, it sounds realistically legit. Although the explanation that "mafia could really use a jailer in this setup" is also there etc.

Normally they couldn't coexist but this setup has an extremely unorthodox amount of killing power for something of this size, and apparently a large amount of mafia town-stopping powers.

Cheez could totally be scum but he's certainly not confirmed not-town. ...what did he do that's against a town mind? I'm assuming you don't mean his target at night. I don't remember seeing a case against him. Sorry if you actually said it somewhere, because this day has been a mess due to infinite roleshens and rereading any of it would be a massive pain, plus I have work again soon *COUGH* I swear I barely work the rest of the week

oh it's in your very next paragraph >_>; Okay, that's actually a pretty decent point. There is the "but if he's the jailer he doesn't want to out himself" but finding scum is even more important, etc. Maybe we'll actually seriously consider a Cheez lynch tomorrow depending on how night actions go.
Quote from: Conq
Zak pushing Cheez solely on rolestuff isn't making me feel better about that lynch fwiw.
This makes me further consider a Zakeri lynch, however. The super unreliable night actions are his only reason for pushing Cheez over others and at the start of D2 his case was "well nnr only posted once so far so let's lynch him".

I mean, if you're really going to vote someone purely over how their night action clearly didn't happen, Shadoweh has been tracked as going to Conq, claimed bodyguard, but clearly didn't take the shot Conq was hit by. That's probably the most reliable possible-slip there is because the scum would have to be a high-speed role that bypassed the Bodyguard. HOWEVER THEY VERY WELL COULD BE, so, whatever. Meanwhile there's multiple reasons for why Cheez's role didn't interact properly with the other supposed things that happened.

anyway cf7 is still bad but iirc he's not the most shining example of mafia play normally either so I think his scummy play isn't so incredibly damning that it's a bad idea to
##Unvote ##Vote Zakeri
Because I started thinking "huh, maybe we actually should lynch Zakeri after all."

Back to Darkie. I have no idea where the fuck you're getting "CF7 is lying" WHEN HALF OF THE ROLE HE CLAIMED IS ALREADY UNDENIABLY PROVEN and the rest is an activates-on-death thing.

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 04:14:31 PM
Quote
I didn't even read the post
*YET

I read it after typing that sentence ;_;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 04:17:44 PM
Quote
Meanwhile there's multiple reasons for why Cheez's role didn't interact properly with the other supposed things that happened.
Quote
Meanwhile there's multiple plausible reasons for why Cheez's role could have not interacted properly with the other supposed things that happened.
fix'd
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 04:18:42 PM
Serela, CF7 can be claiming half his role. AKA the part that has active doublevote. We can never confirm if he actually can chicago until he dies.
Moreover, refer to page 19 where I pointed out why CF7 is again impossible to be town.

CF7 knew he's the doublevoter, but when dormio claimed doublevoter, he happily ignored everything, much like how Cheez8 did to me D2. And let everyone panic over the mindfuck.

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 16, 2014, 04:23:57 PM
This first part isn't very important but
The former argument can be easily disproved if Cheez8 claimed right then,  Cheez have shown over the course of D1 and even till now that he thinks that I am scum, questions my D1 hammer and generally distrusts me entirely.
Never actually mentioned anything about you actually hammering D1- I didn't find that suspicious with everything that was going on. If you insist that I questioned your hammer, please find some proof!

As for the important part (specifically, why I didn't claim,) this post of mine sums up what was going through my head pretty thoroughly:
Well, yeah, I can't imagine that there's not a doctor. At the same time though, since there are at least four killing roles, would it be unreasonable to assume that there's a second doctor, or at least a second protective role of some fashion? Regardless of whether Darkie's telling the truth, if somebody other than Darkie is a doctor, I don't think it would be too far-fetched for that person to look at all of the killing roles at the start of Day 2 and hold off on a counterclaim.
The surrounding discussion with SB near the bottom of Page 17 gives more context, but regardless, this is why. Perhaps it's not the best logic to use, but it was what was going through my head as I read through the start of Day 2.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 04:25:55 PM
Even if CF7 has proved he can doublevote, hedid it after balantly stating he has every intention to lynch me off the face of the earth without any reasons sans threatening me to shut up about him when me being lynched then was very much possible. If that's not anti-town, what is it.

Moreover him proving he has an active just make him look even worse. Why would he, as a town doublevoter, ignore D1 dormio (who also claimed hated town doublevoter with infinite tries) when CF7 is supposed only to have one shot with his doublevote throughout the game? Even if CF7 wanted to conceal his role, he could've just questioned dormio on more details about the claim, or hell, vote him or push for him as his role is unfairly imba as compared to CF7's own. If a hated modifier can earn you an extra vote throughout the game,  it is essentially a permanent doublevoter provided you survive night 1.

And since the subject of kills has been brought up I might as well say it, 4 maximum nks are only going to happen night 1. Because everyone are blind at that point and are most willing to crack a shot at whoever they think are the scummiest. Four people dying in N1 would also inevitably lead to town massclaiming. Much like what's happening now. The doctor and jailer (if there actually is one) will then be revealed, and the setup can be toyed around completely in town's favour.

So do you understand? A jailer won't coexist with a doctor.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Serela on January 16, 2014, 04:34:17 PM
CF7 knew he's the doublevoter, but when dormio claimed doublevoter, he happily ignored everything, much like how Cheez8 did to me D2. And let everyone panic over the mindfuck.
Oh right I forgot that part. Dormio why did you claim doublevoter when you're actually hated >_>;

Whatever we can lynch CF7 and Zak in whichever order :T They both look pretty bad.

Anyway, this doesn't change the fact that you're still overzealous about roleshenanigans. "CF7 is obviously lying about his role" is retarded because you have no way of knowing if he's actually chicago or not, and his role is even half-proven already. Only the mafia should need to be embellishing things to make stuff look better, stick to the truth and stop painting things red, we lynch people in the face for doing that kind of crap.

Cut by, I still have no idea why doctor and jailer can't coexist in a setup with this much killing and apparent town-stopping power. You're overplaying the amount of use the town gets from massclaims, especially since the scum knowing who the jailer/doc are makes it even easier for them to nullify their roles when they have the powers to do so. Anyway, yeah I already said it'd make sense for the jailer to be mafia but it could realistically be town still. I'd rather lynch CF7/Zak first, and I think that goes for most of the players here (only Zak/Shad/CF7 aren't voting that way), so drop it until you have more evidence to use for super roleshenanigans ranttime, you have plenty of good targets to go after already.

Oh jeez, it's too late. I have to start getting ready for work so I can not be late.

YES I'M GETTING A LITTLE EMPHATIC ;_;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 04:35:47 PM
So for the nail in the coffin. Cheez, you told us the reason you thought it was okay to not claim because you genuinely believed Jailer can tie in with Doctor.

As I have told you, it is a balantly impossible mindset which must not have occured. Because for it to happen you have to be entirely unaware of role balance, role interaction and such. Worse still, even those who do not fully grasp the precise logic  balance properly should have a sense of ''hey something is wrong with two unlimited protection roles i should claim to clarify things for us''.

But no, you demonstrated you have a keen awareness on how roleshen works (imo). And you not even asking nor claiming is unacceptable because you essentially confronted me without any material crumbing to a mindset of a conflicting protective role. Everything which relates to you being Jailer can only be seen in posts after your claim, I (personally) am incapable of seeing your posts through day 1 & 2 before your claim yield the perspective of you being conflicted in any way, shape or form, enlighten me if you can actually tell me why is that.

Oh, and who are you planning to target anyway?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 04:36:34 PM
Oh right I forgot that part. Dormio why did you claim doublevoter when you're actually hated >_>;

Whatever we can lynch CF7 and Zak in whichever order :T They both look pretty bad.

Anyway, this doesn't change the fact that you're still overzealous about roleshenanigans. "CF7 is obviously lying about his role" is retarded because you have no way of knowing if he's actually chicago or not, and his role is even half-proven already. Only the mafia should need to be embellishing things to make stuff look better, stick to the truth and stop painting things red, we lynch people in the face for doing that kind of crap.

Cut by, I still have no idea why doctor and jailer can't coexist in a setup with this much killing and apparent town-stopping power. You're overplaying the amount of use the town gets from massclaims, especially since the scum knowing who the jailer/doc are makes it even easier for them to nullify their roles when they have the powers to do so. Anyway, yeah I already said it'd make sense for the jailer to be mafia but it could realistically be town still. I'd rather lynch CF7/Zak first, and I think that goes for most of the players here (only Zak/Shad/CF7 aren't voting that way), so drop it until you have more evidence to use for super roleshenanigans ranttime, you have plenty of good targets to go after already.

Oh jeez, it's too late. I have to start getting ready for work so I can not be late.

YES I'M GETTING A LITTLE EMPHATIC ;_;

read my post right above yours ty
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 04:38:58 PM
In the case you still don't grasp my point with CF7, I am saying him proving he has an active does nothing to prove that it is wrongly used and his D1 mentality are both impossible for a town doublevoter.

Because I am inclined to believe zak is SK and we can use his kill, I'd prefer to lynch him tomorrow.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 05:02:34 PM
serela and since it doesnt seem like that you are gonna response soon heres some food for thought.

maybe you should imagine whats could be the best case scenario for town to understand the modding philosophy instead of dismissing everything because scum HAZ THE ROLES. serela.

a somewhat best case would be all three scums getting shot in the face. with vig. joat. and sk. which would mean instant gameover....oh shit

well it might seem like that conq can really be theorized as scum in this case.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 05:07:43 PM
but anyway, i just dont like you diismissing the notion entirely because *its  possible*.

i personally did post in my scumread wall that i agree with that its possible for cheez to be jailer depending on scumflips
if anything i just thought that i want to hear more other than the *its possible* argument.

but really, can conq be scum? i might have to read through this whole thread again. because oh boy i just dont believe any mod would let instant gameover be a possibility.him suggesting strongwill also seemed obscene and out of the blue. give me some time to chew it over. gd night
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 16, 2014, 05:35:32 PM
So for the nail in the coffin. Cheez, you told us the reason you thought it was okay to not claim because you genuinely believed Jailer can tie in with Doctor.

As I have told you, it is a balantly impossible mindset which must not have occured. Because for it to happen you have to be entirely unaware of role balance, role interaction and such. Worse still, even those who do not fully grasp the precise logic  balance properly should have a sense of ''hey something is wrong with two unlimited protection roles i should claim to clarify things for us''.
Yes, this went through my head, but it was counteracted with "hey something is wrong with three roles that get to kill every night, there's a chance Darkie is telling the truth after all so maybe I shouldn't let scum know who else can protect people." And while I can't say I'm fully aware of role balance, I know enough about it to believe that two protective roles in a setup with 3 nightly kills plus extra is definitely not outside the realm of possibility.

I agree it is unlikely though! After all, if I was fully convinced you were a doctor, I wouldn't have voiced my suspicion of you,

Quote
But no, you demonstrated you have a keen awareness on how roleshen works (imo). And you not even asking nor claiming is unacceptable because you essentially confronted me without any material crumbing to a mindset of a conflicting protective role. Everything which relates to you being Jailer can only be seen in posts after your claim, I (personally) am incapable of seeing your posts through day 1 & 2 before your claim yield the perspective of you being conflicted in any way, shape or form, enlighten me if you can actually tell me why is that.

Oh, and who are you planning to target anyway?
I think you'll find that my discussion with SB at the bottom of Page 17/top of Page 18 would come from the mindset of a Jailer, at the very least. In fact, that was when he convinced me to counterclaim you. I wanted to make sure you had a claim that you would be forced to stick with though because 1) I could see you fibbing about the semantics of your role even as town, and 2) I thought that if you were a town doc, you'd have at least some sort of drawback to balance out the existence of a Jailer as well. I guess I thought you'd be back a lot sooner than you actually were though.

I don't know who I'm going to target yet because SB hasn't decided whether he wants to test my claim by shooting me or copping me. I'm fine with either, but if I don't have to jail him, I'll probably go for... Either Serela or Conq, I guess. Serela I trust as a townie and if he's a VT I won't be keeping anybody from helping. Conq I don't know whether to trust, but if he's telling the truth then I'll protect him without any loss, and if he's not then I'll end up roleblocking him (and hopefully not accidentally save him in the process.)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Cheez8 on January 16, 2014, 05:41:57 PM
I wanted to make sure you had a claim that you would be forced to stick with though because 1) I could see you fibbing about the semantics of your role even as town, and 2) I thought that if you were a town doc, you'd have at least some sort of drawback to balance out the existence of a Jailer as well.
What I mean by this is that I assumed you were either town lying about your role or scum lying more about your role, and wanted to know what your actual final claim would be while ensuring that you couldn't wriggle out of it. I'm surprised you stuck with full doc, honestly.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 16, 2014, 06:02:33 PM
Doctor > Bodyguard
I was pretty sure he was lying about self protecting so etc
Well, I got that much already. What I'm wondering about is the question, is a fancy last minute claim enough to go from ?I think he's lying scum? to ?100% trustworthy, must protect?? I mean didn't you claimed to have high standards (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1062071.html#msg1062071) when it comes to the use of a protection role?
And then you called him a liar again at the start of the day, just after the night where you decided that you were willing to die in his place. You even called him out for doing the same bloody thing, so once again, could you explain this?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: DNAbc on January 16, 2014, 06:10:56 PM
I can't sleep so I woke up, mashocism ho.

Anyway, Cheez, that's very articulate and convincing. And honestly speaking you have lifted much of my initial suspicion on how your logic  works.
Yet however that's not saying the concern of everyone shooting in n1 and claiming thereafter d2 resulting in setup gaming  should be something that slipped the mod's mind. As well as that the worst case scenario for scum could literally result in a instant endgame. So conq's role being a passive bpv have my suspicions on him spiking up like crazily. I still have rereading to do with the thread though! Anyway,  with this settled I can finally go to bed.

I urge everyone to seriously consider conqueror's affinity. Because given if the joat is not faking (sk is pretty much confirmed). There has to be something, preferably can be used blindly during night 1 that will at least ensure scum survival. But maybe its because its late around here so I can't think well, so correct me if I am misguide ty.

Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 16, 2014, 07:26:30 PM
@Ninja: In case you missed this.
...
Disclaimer: This is the first mafia setup I have ever run. Balance cannot be assured. Especially as Prims didn't answer when I contacted him with my revised setup.
This should clearly tell us to be careful about any kind of rolespeculation.
But let us look for a moment to the opposed of your scenario, the worst case: All 5 possible night kills hit town in the first night, which leaves a 5/3/1 situation. Now add the scum doublevoter and two night kills night two, and you got a day two MyLo where town already lost it's vote majority.
Do you really call that balance?


Now a break for dinner and then will I see what I can get out of CF7s content.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 16, 2014, 08:49:47 PM
Spent whole day playing Dragon's Crown. Go me.
Also tbh, i really don't care at this point if i'm lynched or not. After all my "Awesome Ability"? is spent, and after today's day end i'm basically a VT.
##Unvote
##Vote Zakeri

Also i double-voted claimed doc, just to prove my point. It might be illogical, stupid, suicidal, you name it, i'm just fed up with Darkie's BS.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 16, 2014, 08:54:56 PM
darkninja, I stopped reading your posts after you switched confirmed scumteams like 5 times. Also, scum probably do have a bulletproof vest or protective ability in some capacity, but it's not me.

Shadoweh, the case on Zakeri isn't "roles." It's really minimal contribution in terms of reads, staying alongside the side of the main flow of the game, and then when asked to provide more, sticks to a rolecase that doesn't take into account any of Cheez's play. And as for his being the source of the missing kill, Utena mafia had a mafia extra kill even without a town vig and sk to "balance" it out.

CF7, that is incredibly unhelpful. What are you opinions on who is scum?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 16, 2014, 08:56:50 PM
doctor + jailer isn't an impossible combination. when I was a watcher in Path of Radiance mafia I had to deal with the possibility of a town tracker being the game and I kinda tiptoed my way around it. The way Cheez poked at darkninja's claim and suggested the possibility of a second doc (this was before massclaim was brought up) means I'm leaning towards his claim being more truthful than not.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 16, 2014, 09:02:12 PM
Also, when I suggested that SB use cop instead of vig, I didn't really mean for him to target Cheez since I don't think that would be productive (it proves very little and gives little info and Cheez is probably town?)

Also tbh, i really don't care at this point if i'm lynched or not. After all my "Awesome Ability"? is spent, and after today's day end i'm basically a VT.
##Unvote
##Vote Zakeri

Not caring about being lynched at this point where there's so much fuckery going around in this game is :psyduck:
If you are town please put some effort into the game.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 16, 2014, 09:02:35 PM
CF7, that is incredibly unhelpful. What are you opinions on who is scum?
Maybe Zak, maybe Shadoweh, maybe Doriano. I'm not focused on the game enough after that burnout.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: CF7 on January 16, 2014, 09:04:17 PM
Plus Conq seems town enough. As is Cheez. SB and Oarfish are sort of null... ish.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Conqueror on January 16, 2014, 09:06:03 PM
Also for everyone saying CF7 didn't react to Dormio's doublevoter claim...
It's my extra vote. It's also stuck on me for a while.
Okay. I'm a little confused. Can i see votecount atm. And
##unvote
for now. Need time to rethink all this.
Hm... Unlimited vig sounds op. Also we can lynch Dormio or DNA. Well, can go back to Dormio. Since i'm not convinced that his role is a town role.
Actually, screw it.
##Vote Dormio.
I'll be around the deadline. Also i still have some doubts.
##Unvote
##Vote Darkninjaabc
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: SB on January 16, 2014, 09:10:22 PM
so i was gonna post something but then the massive walls demotivated me and i have homework i need to do

sigh

wasn't gonna cop cheez, there are way too many scummy people for that. no idea who I am gonna target atm. I'm fine with Zak/CF7 lynches happening so it'll likely be the other one of them.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 16, 2014, 09:41:57 PM
Unimpressive content is unimpressive. Earnestly, is he always that brief?
I find his sudden turn on Serela and his stance SP questionable but he certainly reacted to Dormios claim by pushing him. I would be also quite interested how he came to the idea that Ninja and Conq could be scum together.

But no, that's nothing that I would vote over Zakeri at the moment.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Dorian White on January 16, 2014, 09:58:30 PM
By the way Conq, I think that this was actually his first reaction.
...
I should probably put it out there that I control the Fortress Populous vote.
Curious, actually thought about this possibility. Doesn't make you any less scummy tho, since it can be used by scum as a defensive tactic too.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 16, 2014, 10:01:41 PM
Spent whole day playing Dragon's Crown. Go me.
Also tbh, i really don't care at this point if i'm lynched or not. After all my "Awesome Ability"? is spent, and after today's day end i'm basically a VT.
##Unvote
##Vote Zakeri

Also i double-voted claimed doc, just to prove my point. It might be illogical, stupid, suicidal, you name it, i'm just fed up with Darkie's BS.

THIS WAS THE HAMMER SHUT UP


Votecount of the Very slow Hammer

CF7 (4): SB; Darkninjaabc; Serela; Shadoweh
Zakeri (6): Conq; Cheez8; Dorian; Serela; CF7; CF7
Cheez8 (1): Zakeri

Not Voting (1): O4rfish

With 11 votes in play it takes 6 to lynch. 6 was reached.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 16, 2014, 10:03:53 PM
Zakeri was hung from a tree!

Zakeri; you are Urist Mc GreenSpearman: Goblin Spearman [Mafia One-Shot Ambusher]
You are not actually a Dwarf, but the Urists are too stupid to notice. You snuck into their military, and they gave you a spear! You?ll be sure to put it to good use... even if it looks a little flimsy. What do you expect of something made by the Urists?

Each night, you may use one of these actions:
##Kill: Perform the mafia nightkill. You cannot do this if some other member of the mafia is.
##Ambush: Lurk outside a target?s room for the night. If they leave their room, you?ll ambush them and kill them. Unfortunately, you?ll get found out if you ?volunteer? for patrol duty twice in such a short time, so this is a one-shot. Even the Urists are smart enough to notice something is up if you volunteer for patrol too often!

You win when your faction can control the lynch without outside assistance. Good luck!

It is now NIGHT 2. You have 24 hours to send commands. No mass activity check required this time.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 17, 2014, 06:28:28 PM
A reminder that there is only 3 and a half hours to send commands.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 17, 2014, 08:38:33 PM
An hour and a half until action deadlines. Actions sent after the deadline will not count [Although I will not be starting D3 until tomorrow morning if we hit deadline for timing purposes].


Deadline is deadline.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 2
Post by: Raikaria on January 18, 2014, 12:03:04 AM
The cause of the late result was the fact I was going out for a 1-day-late birthday meal [Weather was awful on my B/D].

Anyway; O4rfish bled out!

O4rfish; you are UristMcHunter ? Dwarf Tracker [Town Tracker]
You are UristMcHunter, and your skills lie in tracking and hunting prey to feed the other Urists. You work at night, and with the recent events, you?ve decided to keep track of your fellow Dwarves as well in case of betrayal. Every night, you may ##Track a target, and will be told of anyone who that person visits.


You win when all threats to town are eliminated! Good Luck!

It is now Day 3. You have 72 hours to vote.

With 8 alive; it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140121T0002&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+3&csz=1
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DNAbc on January 18, 2014, 12:41:29 AM
who did you all protect
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Dorian White on January 18, 2014, 12:47:22 AM
I guess that's what we all like to know from you, so who was it?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Cheez8 on January 18, 2014, 01:01:08 AM
I chose to jail Conq.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DNAbc on January 18, 2014, 01:10:05 AM
sb
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 18, 2014, 01:14:32 AM
hmm. want sb to claim his result.

Quote
LYLO and MYLO will be announced. Potential will not be.
@mod, could you clarify what this means?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: BigBangMeteor on January 18, 2014, 01:26:46 AM
It means that if it's MYLO, we won't say whether a loss after a mislynch is guaranteed or only potential.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Raikaria on January 18, 2014, 01:27:02 AM
@mod, could you clarify what this means?

If it is certainly mylo/lylo it will be announced.

If there is a highly specific chain of events that can lead to a game end it will not be announced.

MYLO is only announced if mislynching will certainly lead to a town loss; yet it is not LYLO.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Dorian White on January 18, 2014, 02:03:36 AM
Well, since I don't have a fancy night action to report is it now time for the big picture.

Serela: Town
SB: Null tendency Town (read tonight)*
Cheez8: Null tendency Town (read tonight)*
CF7: Null
Shadoweh: Scum
Darkninjablablabla... : Scum
NNR Dorian: Oh, that's me.
Conqueror: Town

Conq and Serela are clear enough, if someone has a different opinion then they are free to point out why but it should be a good reason.

SB and Cheez didn't do anything that stood out to me so far, * I intended to read them in the night but got distracted, so I'll do so as soon as I had some sleep.

O4rfish gets credit for the way he handled his role/claim but his presence may be thin but I like what I see so far. (not that it matters anymore)

CF7 was the counter wagon to scum and I still don't buy a scum doublevoter but his hammer was a thing that I would like him to explain and his content doesn?t fills me with confidence.

Ninja spend the better part of day two on his role/setup speculation. He took the claim scenario to guesswork is way to questionable conclusions which he then labeled as ?confirmed? to sell them as facts. I think the fact that he gave out the half game as confirmed anti-town that way speaks for itself. Maybe I'm really biased here but the only conclusions I can come up with is that he's either not town or I have not the slightest idea what he's doing.

Shadowehs words doesn't fit together acts as I already pointed out. She suspected Ninja for the better part of day one just to instantly believed his claim, went even that far and protected, and that only to turn around again calling him scum founded on the fact that his role apparently failed. I don't know about you but ?maybe the claimed doc got roleblocked? was a thought that crossed even my biased mind.
Her reason to vote CF7 over Zakeri is also questionable but maybe she can offer a more satisfying explanation than what she had so far.

So far, so good, any question?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 18, 2014, 03:32:59 AM
CF7 being scum counterwagon is a thing.

Want to lynch Shadoweh at the moment, waiting for night action results to all be claimed.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Dorian White on January 18, 2014, 04:14:12 AM
CF7 being scum counterwagon is a thing.

Want to lynch Shadoweh at the moment, waiting for night action results to all be claimed.
That was actually my plan too but now is it 5AM, so I call it a night.

## Vote: Shadoweh
Cause I'm not leaving without my vote placed.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Shadoweh on January 18, 2014, 04:16:32 AM
>_> I hope you aren't waiting on me. I told you yesterday I wasn't going to use my kill me power on anyone.

Zakeri might have flipped scum but he was telling the truth about having a kill at least? From what Raikaria said about kill orders if it kills after the other person acts, that would make three kills the first night if Conq is telling the truth? Which is more explainable at least.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 18, 2014, 04:18:48 AM
Shadoweh you're the SK aren't you.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Shadoweh on January 18, 2014, 04:24:03 AM
I'm sure I have the ability to go beyond Day 1 without being caught as an SK, geez Conq. Give me some credit.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: CF7 on January 18, 2014, 06:17:21 AM
Ahem. Yes, i double voted my scum buddy. Because it was the only logical thing as a scum to do.
On a more serious note, i believe i mentioned several times that i suspected Zak.
As for today. I can vote for Shadoweh i guess.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DNAbc on January 18, 2014, 06:27:30 AM
Ahem. Yes, i double voted my scum buddy. Becaus
e it was the only logical thing as a scum to do.
On a more serious note, i believe i mentioned several times that i suspected Zak.
As for today. I can vote for Shadoweh i guess.

dude. you HAMMEREDyour scumbuddy and cut off night action allocation.

thats so protown
........
on the other hand i dont really know what to response to conq and dorian.

mainly due to how their argument on me being scum is because i confused even myself in roleshens and did stupid crap. of which serela snapped me out of it.

i mean i sucked at attempting roleshens but i did stop however. i didnt forcefully tunnel on a single person and show minimum concern for the rest of the gamestate, i also go to justify what ai do in hindsight so things can actually be clarified, unlike some other who just hammered with his double vote and delay us another night of role info.


why the fuck am i even being considered being lynched when literally the only anti town thing i have done is delve into the messy roleshens. it does make the thread cluttered and town confused which is why i recognised my mistake and stopped it!
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 18, 2014, 06:29:22 AM
on the other hand i dont really know what to response to conq and dorian.

mainly due to how their argument on me being scum is because i confused even myself in roleshens and did stupid crap. of which serela snapped me out of it.

Dude, I didn't even say anything about you?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 18, 2014, 06:30:36 AM
CF7, did you know that your vote on Zak was the hammer?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: CF7 on January 18, 2014, 06:33:31 AM
CF7, did you know that your vote on Zak was the hammer?
I did.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: SB on January 18, 2014, 09:50:14 AM
Cheez scanned town.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DNAbc on January 18, 2014, 10:25:07 AM
sorry conq i was meaning to address the bpv problem but cut my post short due to irl.

tbh i dont like your role. simply because bpv is honestly uncommon for town, and even in a max possible 5nk setup because scum is unlikely to gambit away that one conditional nk first thing neither would the scum shoot their buddies either.

so on n1 the maximum possible kills should be four, and with two scum oriented shots (sk preference would be whoever pulling attention to him), factoring in player randomness i personally find it plausible scum is granted a bpv to just not let a weak scumteam end the game instantly

doriano you mentioned thw worst possible scenario hitting town and that town needs something to safeguard itself. i personally find it countered in the sense of there simply being alot of superpowers (such as joat and tracker making up cop dying n1) and lots of active protection (jailer joat and doctor)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DNAbc on January 18, 2014, 01:41:37 PM
say something you all, especially cf7

##Vote: CF7
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: CF7 on January 18, 2014, 01:48:51 PM
Ahem. After all the shit you've pulled here, you want to hear from me? I'm not sure if i should be overjoyed or offended.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DNAbc on January 18, 2014, 04:15:20 PM
SB why wouldnt you shoot cf7?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: SB on January 18, 2014, 04:28:13 PM
Okay, now that I'm back and not running around to make sure I don't end up late for puppy training I guess I'll explain my scan. I figured Cheez was pretty central in all the role confusion earlier and I had weird scumvibes on him when I reread D1 that I didn't know how to explain (and jailkeeper could easily be an excuse to hook obvtown roles as a town hooker.)

DNA's Conq case is bad since BPVs on strong players benefit town and scum and doesn't actually say why he's scummy playerwise (and now Zak flipped as scum extra kill I now feel infinitely better about him since I thought he could be bsing. He could still be actually but I think it's less likely?)

I didn't shoot CF7 considering inspect is more powerful.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: SB on January 18, 2014, 04:30:34 PM
I'm considering a Shadoweh vote but I have no idea what I feel about her, it's just PoE and I don't feel like rereading right now since I kinda just want to game for a bit. DNA would be a good lynch maybe, and CF7's Zak hammer has confused me (although I can still see the scum benefit, I guess.)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DNAbc on January 18, 2014, 04:44:39 PM
DNA's Conq case is bad since BPVs on strong players benefit town and scum and doesn't actually say why he's scummy playerwise (and now Zak flipped as scum extra kill I now feel infinitely better about him since I thought he could be bsing. He could still be actually but I think it's less likely?)

I didn't shoot CF7 considering inspect is more powerful.
I would like to address two problems in this.

I am never against conq as a player, I am against his role because in this setup it is definitely possible to have scum lose instantly.

We have a unlimited cop, track and a joat. I would expect a godfather from this setup. Therefore while cop results are useful, there exist a much better option right then, to outright shoot someone. There is the CF7, Cheez, Shadoweh and even myself whom you can shoot and clear things up for sure.
Please justify how that a possibly wrong cop result is better than a flip.

------
And then there's the part about lynching me. You did show awareness of my posts since you actually thought that my ''conq case'' was bad, and since you never did say my defend on myself isn't trustworthy either, I am assuming that you understand my logic, if so, why would you still push for my lynch?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: SB on January 18, 2014, 05:02:07 PM
Your suspicion on Conq is based on role and not play which is WHY it's bad. Town would also love in a bulletproof in a setup like this with so many kills, just because it benefits the mafia as well as the town doesn't make it more likely to be one or the other.

Inspecting someone doesn't have a nasty side effect of Killing Them If They Are Town. Hitting a Godfather is less likely than vigging scum, not to mention potential redirects etc.

Your defense clearly wasn't a good one if I don't remember you doing it at all, tbh I just remember rolespec.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 18, 2014, 05:50:24 PM
If you're going to lynch someone based purely off of role shenanigans, it better be pretty solid role shenanigan reasons. This is -nowhere- near solid, it's just trying to outguess the mod by assuming a town BP would be out of the question, which it isn't.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Dorian White on January 18, 2014, 05:54:31 PM
Geez, just a few posts and still so much to address.

@Shadoweh: We can assume that Zakeri ambushed Sky, as O4rfish pointed out already. Which means indeed two scum NKs and no Vig shoot.

@CF7: To double voted my scum buddy into nirvana is indeed not too unlikely when it A safes yourself from getting lynched and B cut the the day short by 12 hours. And the fact that you were apparently aware of what you were doing but didn't felt the need to mention it to us, who were clearly unaware of it, makes me want to strangle you regardless of your alignment.

@Ninja: To say that you confused yourself with roles is quite a bloody understatement. Haven't you called me out on it, that I would waste towns time by ignoring and distract from the things that matters, ITT your setup speculation? And wasn't you first reaction to Serelas arguments not to put him into your ?confirmed five player scum team? for the same reason? You insisted to confused yourself and everyone else with it and how protown do you think that was?
And no, you certainly didn't ?tunnel on a single person?, you have shown enough concern to justify a jump on every player alive. Do I need to tell you that a wide field of suspicion befit a scum agenda way better than a narrow focus?
Also, why the fuck do you think that one voice of suspicion, from someone who's not even voting you at the moment, makes you a considered lynch for today? So stop crying wolf every time someone looks at you funny, it's bloody annoying.

OK, there goes my countenance. Guess I need a deep breath before I go on here.^^;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 18, 2014, 06:54:35 PM
Quote
I am never against conq as a player, I am against his role because in this setup it is definitely possible to have scum lose instantly.
1) You're assuming that everyone else is telling the truth about their roles.
2)
Quote
bpv is honestly uncommon for town
It's not.
3)
Quote
scum is unlikely to gambit away that one conditional nk first thing
Why not? Actually, this makes me think; why didn't they just ambush you N1? You were claimed doc, and the probability of you not using your protect was close to nil.


The more darkninja posts the more I consider the possibility of him being a mafia doctor because he keeps harping on this issue of "but mafia can't stop all these extra kills." Play is almost always more important than roles or a complement to it; the fact that you keep saying "I'm fine with Conq's play BUT HIS ROLE COULD BE SCUM" tires me. Consider this: if I were a scum bulletproof, my play would show it in other ways apart from my role.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 18, 2014, 06:59:47 PM
Quote
The more darkninja posts the more I consider the possibility of him being a mafia doctor
same
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 18, 2014, 07:03:41 PM
Thought about SB inspect on Cheez and I've decided that overall it makes both of them look better. I was kinda on the fence on both of them earlier but SB's recent posts have continued to be town and I don't think Cheez is a scum godfather or whatever. I don't think this is the play they'd come up with as scum together either.

Dorian's posting has actually been pretty solid recently, so not really interested in him either.

Serela still reads town to me.

If I'm right about all these reads, that leaves a lynch pool of:

7: CF7
8: Shadoweh
10: Darkninjaabc

The point about darkninja not being ambushed gets stronger every time I think about it. There's no reason for scum not to use ambush on him N1. They're not going to assume he's going to be protected by another doc or whatever. How's this for role shenanigans, darkninja? Combine this with his play, which recently has boiled down to "these five players are confirmed scum and also role shenanigans."

Shadoweh jokingly going "Conq I'm totally not SK" but providing nothing else just makes me think she's SK.

CF7, I don't know. Him being scum counterwagon is a thing  but double scum wagons have happened before and his play has been pretty go with the flow. Will have to reread him again.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: CF7 on January 18, 2014, 07:05:35 PM
Shadoweh, whom did you protect this night?
Also i'm still kind of don't trust our doctor.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 18, 2014, 07:29:45 PM
Pretty much agree with Conq entirely here, albiet my reasons for Shadoweh may be slightly different but it's nothing big
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Shadoweh on January 18, 2014, 08:09:24 PM
I already said I didn't protect anyone last night >_>
The way you keep accusing me of your own role is pretty cheeky too. As long as no one tries to kill you again at least you'll probably win, right?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Dorian White on January 18, 2014, 08:29:30 PM
@Conq: Why is Shadoweh SK and not scum? I can't remember that you considered that option before.

Oh, Shadoweh graced us with her presence, anything you like to say aside from ?I'm not the SK because Conq is the SK??
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 18, 2014, 08:31:56 PM
Dorian: Gut via play and Zakeri interactions, plus the fact that she got tracked to me the night I got shot. Her being mafia wouldn't be super surprising, although it would mean I read her wrong initially.


The way you keep accusing me of your own role is pretty cheeky too. As long as no one tries to kill you again at least you'll probably win, right?
>implying implications
If no one tries to kill me I'll probably win as part of the town yeah. B)
What would be nice is actual opinions on the gamestate though.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 18, 2014, 08:33:04 PM
Also Shadoweh you realize that the only thing keeping me from lynching you off the face of the earth right now is that I think you might be SK right?  :V
Put some effort into this.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Raikaria on January 18, 2014, 08:47:18 PM
Votecount of the Fluffy Wambler

Shadoweh (1): Dorian
CF7 (1): DNA

Not Voting (6): Conq; CF7; Serela; Shadoweh; SB; Cheez8

With 8 alive; it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140121T0002&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+3&csz=1
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: CF7 on January 18, 2014, 09:21:40 PM
Hm... We are probably at 5/2/1.
And we still have some time. I'm leaning on voting Shadoweh, but there're some people other people, whom i may vote for. Now sllep.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Dorian White on January 18, 2014, 09:44:12 PM
Dorian: Gut via play and Zakeri interactions, plus the fact that she got tracked to me the night I got shot. Her being mafia wouldn't be super surprising, although it would mean I read her wrong initially.
...
Can you give me an example for it?
Also on the Zakeri interactions, any idea why he thought Shadoweh would be a good target to claim as involved as she was in the role stuff?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 18, 2014, 10:24:55 PM
Can you give me an example for it?
Well, if you put it like that, I don't have anything concrete, sorry. :V I just reread Shadoweh's ISO and don't know why I began thinking that in the first place, other than that I thought certain posts felt genuine (thinking darkninja was bs'ing about his claim, actual attempt to make competing wagons to dormio at the end of d1) and that leans more towards sk than scum.

As for why Zak claimed to trap Shadoweh, I have no idea since it just created a bunch of contradictions Cheez's claim etc, although that might have been the purpose. Alternatively, Shadoweh was the only good target he could think of.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DNAbc on January 19, 2014, 12:01:48 AM
Okay, I am already confused about the gamestate.

Let's get the obvious thing sorted out first, SB, we cannot confirm if Shadoweh is lying atm until he flips, but as long as Shadoweh's claim is true there's a scum busdriver on their team, they get profit just by redirecting you to anyone who's not themselves. Your night results are not something I would put faith into a lynch as opposed to a vig shot which would at the very least turn up a modconfirmed flip info even if redirected

Then its to Dorian.
Honestly, the way you posts reminds me of those crazy CNN conspiracy interviewers who chew out middle east countries diplomats and sound cool by just repeating everything else in the AMERICAN MIND while gleefully ignoring any counterarguments the opposition brought up.

It is me myself who brought up that I am fully aware of how unhelpful roleshens is not helping town, hence is the reason I stopped after I realized it. I hardly think that you would miss it because my whole post there was concluded literally with ''I did stupid crap, which Serela snapped me out of it''. But since you would just prefer to go OMGUS on one single moot point instead of arguing back why a scum doctor would neither claim D1 nor claim protection on a player with a shitton of night action interactions just so for the sake of pulling attention to himself well I guess you keep doing what you want to do.

*PS: Doriano by the guy who's tunneling on me and showing minimal concern to the rest of the gamestate I am referring to you.

I don't think the zak extra kill would be used on me because I claimed I can protect myself every night as opposed to every non-consecutive night. From the wording, his ability apparently only works when someone targets someone else and used their ability already, I would hardly conclude that its a strongman kill that can smash through doc protection. Maybe conq can explain it better to us, because I can only gather so much upon rereading of Zak's flip, how did you even draw a conclusion that some doctor who claimed to self protect is a feasible target for that specific abilityl is beyond me.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Shadoweh on January 19, 2014, 12:03:35 AM
I dunno, I mean, what's my motivation here? You haven't even given me an idea of why being the SK would keep me alive here.
Like, if you think I'm the SK then you think I tried to kill you, so I don't get why you'd want me to be alive to keep doing that?
(btw you missed the joke which is that I actually can't, so etc)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 19, 2014, 12:40:21 AM
you say "so the cop result is unreliable because busdriver" but didn't Raikaria say when answering the question that people who get a report back like a cop will know who they actually targetted?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 19, 2014, 01:11:09 AM
Maybe conq can explain it better to us, because I can only gather so much upon rereading of Zak's flip, how did you even draw a conclusion that some doctor who claimed to self protect is a feasible target for that specific abilityl is beyond me.
Because Sky_Paladin claimed vig, and given that you said you believed his claim, any reasonable doc would have protected the vig. And yes, Raikaria said earlier that investigative roles will know when they are redirected.

I dunno, I mean, what's my motivation here? You haven't even given me an idea of why being the SK would keep me alive here.
Like, if you think I'm the SK then you think I tried to kill you, so I don't get why you'd want me to be alive to keep doing that?
(btw you missed the joke which is that I actually can't, so etc)
Are you asking me what your motivation to try in this game is?  :derp:  :derp:  :derp:  :derp: Look, the least you could do is say who you think is scum.
Also I'd rather lynch mafia over SK today because assuming 5/2/1 lynching mafia brings us to 3/1/1 worst case scenario tomorrow with chance of crosskills while lynching SK gives us 4/2 tomorrow which is harder to win.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 19, 2014, 01:13:41 AM
Quote
##Ambush: Lurk outside a target?s room for the night. If they leave their room, you?ll ambush them and kill them. Unfortunately, you?ll get found out if you ?volunteer? for patrol duty twice in such a short time, so this is a one-shot. Even the Urists are smart enough to notice something is up if you volunteer for patrol too often!
This ability kills the target if the target leaves their room at night. And like I said, the number of docs who would self-protect in that situation with other claimed prs out there is close to nil.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 19, 2014, 01:14:55 AM
Post where Raikaria answers questions: http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1062025.html#msg1062025

(yes, they know who their target is even when redirected)

"I want to lynch Mafia over SK" doesn't seem like a sentiment worth caring about because how do we know if a liar is actually an SK-liar or Maf-liar anyway? Darkie didn't want to lynch Zak over CF7 because he thought Zak was probably an SK and not mafia, and Zak flipped scum. Let's just happily lynch anyone who seems to be an anti-town alignment >_>;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 19, 2014, 01:16:27 AM
(Zak being SK was impossible because if he was SK then he'd be accounting for both his extra kill and his SK kill) :V

I do get your point though.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DNAbc on January 19, 2014, 01:35:55 AM
Because Sky_Paladin claimed vig, and given that you said you believed his claim, any reasonable doc would have protected the vig. And yes, Raikaria said earlier that investigative roles will know when they are redirected.
This ability kills the target if the target leaves their room at night. And like I said, the number of docs who would self-protect in that situation with other claimed prs out there is close to nil.

I don't really grasp what do you refer to ''that situation'', but far as I recall D1 concluded with me, dormio and sp claiming. I do not really know how does your mentality works. But I have stated at that point that my internet is down and my communication is limited severely. I also did claim that I am going to self protect.

Moreover, I didn't even know beforehand that the vig shot is going to be the slowest kill, for I kind of expect skypal to just shoot someone and prove his claim. Elsewise I am kind of okay to just let him fall because I only trusted his claim enough to the degree that I am not willing to stir up shit on a tiny phone just to get you all back to lynch him (as it requires too much effort on my part for a D1), allow me to remind you that skypal was a counterwagon until he claimed, and arguments questioning his scumminess are not lacking. At that point conq does look like an appealing target to scum anyway so logically I covered the guy who wasn't acting all that suspicious all D1 and has more reason to be trusted as town.

Or are you referring to what counts as logical in a scum's mind? I am sorry, but it is really beyond my capability to explain paranoia. I did deliberately leave a message to state that I am going to self protect first thing, but whether they decided to buy it or not is up in the air. This is exactly the reason why its a gambit. Apparently they just did it, and I am not really the one whom you should be asking for a justification out of.

Oh, and referring to the investigative roleshens I was merely listing an example off my head why a flip is better than a cop result by any degree. Sure, a bus driver might not even be there, but my point goes to show that in the ''rare'' scenario scum are provided either active or passive investigation immunity in an unlimited cop, tracker and joat setup who can indirectly screw with the result still stands, conceding sb will know if he got redirected by a bus driver doesn't dismantle my argument at all.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DNAbc on January 19, 2014, 01:42:39 AM
tldr why ask me things I will not be able to answer anyway just to make me look bad, don't you have better and more helpful things to do such as actually acknowledging my logic and concede that there is little to pushing for my lynch aside from *~GUT~*?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 19, 2014, 02:34:22 AM
I'm not asking you anything, I'm making a point and thinking out loud in the thread. You can't answer it just like I can't answer the accusation BUT BP WOULD BE USEFUL FOR SCUM.

And yes, I'm talking about the logical scum move. If you are town doc, scum would assume you are going to protect the vig instead of yourself and so you'd be a good target for Zak's power.

##Vote: Shadoweh
At least darkninja is trying.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Cheez8 on January 19, 2014, 02:36:12 AM
Sorry about not posting for so long. It's 8:30 PM and I've still only gotten myself half-awake.

Kind of sad to say that I'm not exactly in a state of mind to actually gather anything from any discussions so far. I'm going to hope to get a better night's sleep tonight and actually realize things come tomorrow. At the moment, I'm not even sure what questions Darkie's complaining about being asked.

Cut by Conq. Well, that clears that up.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Cheez8 on January 19, 2014, 02:40:03 AM
Oh yeah, I did notice I was interested in CF7 because of things that point both directions with him, but that doesn't really mean much until I figure out what it means. I think it's just that they have the most things that point towards different alignments or something and it's the sort of thing I'd be really happy to try to figure out and hopefully it won't end in me waffling or something.

I don't know what I meant to convey by this.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 19, 2014, 02:40:36 AM
tldr why ask me things I will not be able to answer anyway just to make me look bad, don't you have better and more helpful things to do such as actually acknowledging my logic and concede that there is little to pushing for my lynch aside from *~GUT~*?
Okay, if you want it spelled out. The reasons for people wanting your lynch are thus.
1) Bad logic; changing of opinions at such frequent intervals and with such conviction that it's hard to tell what you actually believe at what time.
2) Overemphasis on role shenanigans and filling the thread with role cruft when there are so many role possibilities that speculation is useful only half the time and you contradict yourself so many times in your own speculation that it's frustrating to read.
3) Who do you even think is scum? Yeah, you're voting for CF7 because "he hammered his scumbuddy." Why? And who else is scum? You can't just say that 5 people are scum and leave it at that because at this point there are at most 3 scum of various factions left. A lot of your posts are backed up with rhetoric. There are cases sometimes, but they're so varied and contradictory that they're hard to follow.
4) If you like role shenanigans, a doc claim in tandem with a jailkeeper, joat with a doc, bp, and bodyguard (although i assume the last claim is false) is pretty darn funky, although inconclusive
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 19, 2014, 02:43:05 AM
5) Also shows proof of having not read the thread. For example:
Quote
*PS: Doriano by the guy who's tunneling on me and showing minimal concern to the rest of the gamestate I am referring to you.
saying this when dorian is voting shadoweh
and numerous other examples

Seriously, it's tiring.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 19, 2014, 02:48:39 AM
Yeah, Darkie is trying, but the effort is just -so ridiculously misguided- as pointed out by Conq that half of my desire to lynch him is so I don't have to keep reading all of it for the sake of trying to tell whether he's town or scum.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: BigBangMeteor on January 19, 2014, 02:51:31 AM
This ability kills the target if the target leaves their room at night. And like I said, the number of docs who would self-protect in that situation with other claimed prs out there is close to nil.
"leaves their room" is just flavour; Raikaria can c/d this later but I'm pretty sure that this would still kill someone who didn't target another person.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: DNAbc on January 19, 2014, 02:52:25 AM
thats why i am using the term tunnelibg as opposed to wagoning.....

anyway i get your point about my posts being messy and frustrating hence unappealing to read, will get back to this later when i am home
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 19, 2014, 02:59:21 AM
It's not just that, you'll use bad logic (such as when you were accusing Conq of being SK because of the night action things he had suggested, and saying that "that's wrong and you must be SK since you're saying it", when what Conq was saying was actually an accurate representation of SK vs. Mafia things) with such powerful conviction and rock-hard certainty it's just, what

I mean, it's okay to be wrong! And we can point things out to you afterwords and get everything sorted out! But you do it so seriously and powerfully with the strangest things ;_;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 19, 2014, 03:04:07 AM
part of the reason that example is so ;_; is because even if it -was- wrong, HOW WOULD THAT MAKE HIM MORE LIKELY TO BE AN SK ANYWAY

It's like when people get lynched for suggesting we no lynch d1, that's not scummy, scum aren't going to seriously try to get people to go along with that, it's bad logic but -why would scum actually try to do that- (over town) because it's not like it would EVER happen on purpose
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: BigBangMeteor on January 19, 2014, 03:27:12 AM
"leaves their room" is just flavour; Raikaria can c/d this later but I'm pretty sure that this would still kill someone who didn't target another person.
This might be wrong actually; wait for Raikaria.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Dorian White on January 19, 2014, 05:58:01 AM
...
Then its to Dorian.
Honestly, the way you posts reminds me of those crazy CNN conspiracy interviewers who chew out middle east countries diplomats and sound cool by just repeating everything else in the AMERICAN MIND while gleefully ignoring any counterarguments the opposition brought up.
Is that so? I mean that's kinda funny, cause that's exactly the impression I get from you.
However, since talking to you dosen't gets us anywhere apparently, then how about ... singing?

It's not easy having yourself a good game!
Greasing up those docs and trackers~
Watching out they don't vote better~
Vote and vig you both in the same game!
Seems like some game I've forgotten~
Town cred gone and now it's rotten~

I'm not a roleblocker tonight!
Don't want to get a scum role~
I'm just a loner baby!
And now you've taken my toll!

I can't decide~
Whether you should live or die~
Oh, there's prolly a Dead QT~
Please don't ##unvote and cry~
No wonder why
My role feels dead inside!
Unhelpful and wasting time~
Skip the days and let's rewind~
We're going for a ride!

It's a bitch convincing myself to like you!
If I stop now call me scum for true~
If lies were cats you'd be K4U~
Pleasing everyone isn't like you!
Dancing claims that don't have merit~
Slug ten drinks and leave it to Conq~

I've got to hand it to you!
You've played by all the same rules~
It takes to lurk to fool me!
And now you've made me angry~

Oh I could ##vig you in the lake
Or feed you ##poison birthday cake
I can deny I just won't miss all this WIFOM!
Oh I could ##bury you alive
But you might crawl out and stop time
And ##kill me when I'm sleeping!  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKUnfwBPTU)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Shadoweh on January 19, 2014, 07:02:12 AM
I already did a town rendition of that song when we were in a hydra. THIEVERY AND PLAGARISM
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: CF7 on January 19, 2014, 07:54:26 AM
Hummm... Okay first a bit logics. It's a little bit of self-defence for Darkie.
When i activated my double vote i used precisely this phrase.
"By the Divine Right of Amok; Highest Dwarven God; and the God of Blood; hear my words today!"
I assume that all non-towns are not dwarves, i.e. goblins or something. Also i assume it would be incredibly weird if Amok could answer a prayer of non dwarf.

Now a bit more logic.
Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1062472.html#msg1062472) he's ranting about roles, how we all have crazy roles, but Doriano is a VT. IMPOSSIBURU!!
But yet he never questioned Serela's claim as a VT. And that's second VT in the setup. Shouldn't that be even more impossible?

Not sure how i feel about all this. Maybe we should lynch DNA, because it was stated multiple times, that he believed Sky_P claim, and didn't protect him that night. Because protecting anyone else over Vig is better. Not really town!doc mentality.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 19, 2014, 03:27:00 PM
Mafia having a doc could definitely make sense in this setup and as said DNA's done plenty of weirdo weird stuff that can definitely be seen as beneficial for the scum agenda as people have already stated, with his meta being able to tooootally let him get away with it. (And DNA in his past scumgame said at the end of the game that, yes, his duty was to be weird, so he abused his meta to breeze through)

Actually yeah.

##Vote Darkninja123abc (or whatever the heck it was, you know)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Dorian White on January 19, 2014, 03:58:04 PM
I already did a town rendition of that song when we were in a hydra. THIEVERY AND PLAGARISM
Yes you did, which I used as a reference. Am I scum now for stealing borrowing your song or is there anything else you like to add?

@ CF7: Flavor doesn't hold that much implication, I doubt that Raikaria, or any other mod, would give someone a anti-town command when he has to use it in the thread.
And no, Ninja put Serela in his ?priority list? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1062680.html#msg1062680) right between me and Cheez. He wasn't as vocal about Serela as he was about me but the claim earned both of us the same suspicion.

Also: That Ninja didn't protected Sky is a point against him that I can't actually agree with. If I'm not mistaken then his position on Sky that night can be summed up as: ?I trusted Skys claim enough to vote Dormio over him but not enough to give him first protection priority.? It may contradict the emphasis that he puts on roles later bu still having doubts about the claim of someone you suspected makes way more sense to me than Shadowehs instant 180? turns.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 19, 2014, 04:17:34 PM
I wouldn't have doc'd paladin either because vig is a typical claim for trying to live just -one more day- before you're outted. If you're doomed, you're doomed, and getting one more mislynch in first is cool.

It's practically a blessing the scum killed him instead of just disabling his role and letting us worry about whether -we- have to kill him or not.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Raikaria on January 19, 2014, 05:40:30 PM
"leaves their room" is just flavour; Raikaria can c/d this later but I'm pretty sure that this would still kill someone who didn't target another person.

Incorrect. The kill only works if the target has a night action. Hence why the role is 'Ambusher'. It ambushes them on the way to whatever the Night Action is.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: SB on January 19, 2014, 05:44:42 PM
I don't think that DNA needs to be a mafia doctor, he could just be mafia who faked doc to try and hunt for a cc. That being said I don't think him not being ambushed incriminates him, I left the doc alive for like 3 days as scum once and then eventually got him lynched because the cop died when he got hooked.

I really haven't done much today. I'll reread Shadoweh or something, it's less painful than DNA.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: BigBangMeteor on January 19, 2014, 05:52:42 PM
Votecount of the Fluffy Gambler

Shadoweh (2): Dorian; Conq
CF7 (1): DNA
DNA (1): Serela

Not Voting (4): CF7; Shadoweh; SB; Cheez8

With 8 alive; it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140121T0002&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+3&csz=1
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: SB on January 19, 2014, 05:53:30 PM
bbm cant count
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: BigBangMeteor on January 19, 2014, 05:59:45 PM
no idea what you mean
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: SB on January 19, 2014, 06:24:38 PM
Unfortunately, my read of Shadoweh came up with nothing apart from rolespec weirdness (aka nothing playwise bugged me, just role stuff), but i pmed about the Bodyguard/Bulletproof thing and apparently the Bodyguard would die so lol.

##Vote: Shadoweh

I did notice this thing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16152.msg1062843.html#msg1062843) by DNA though, which makes me think that DNA/Zak scumpartners is likely.

Also I did VCA just because I thought it might contribute something? I don't really feel like I got much from it though.

D1
Dormio (7): Fortress Populous; ActionDan; Serela; SB; Cheez8; DNA; Conq (L-0!)
Darkninjaabc (5): NNR; O4rfish; Dormio; Shadoweh; CF7 (L-2)
NNR (1): Zakeri
Not Voting (1):  Sky_Paladin

D2
CF7 (4): SB; Darkninjaabc; Serela; Shadoweh
Zakeri (6): Conq; Cheez8; Dorian; Serela; CF7; CF7
Cheez8 (1): Zakeri
Not Voting (1): O4rfish
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Cheez8 on January 19, 2014, 06:33:39 PM
Okay, my head is on a little more straight this morning! I can actually deduce stuff now, so here we go.

CF7 suddenly resolved himself in my eyes a lot more quickly than I expected, which is almost a letdown. He had a proven ability that probably meant he was town, but his play made me uncertain what to think... And then he posted this.
When i activated my double vote i used precisely this phrase.
"By the Divine Right of Amok; Highest Dwarven God; and the God of Blood; hear my words today!"
I assume that all non-towns are not dwarves, i.e. goblins or something. Also i assume it would be incredibly weird if Amok could answer a prayer of non dwarf.
Yeah... I don't know much about Dwarf Fortress, but I can't see the "highest dwarven god" supporting any anti-town faction here. That just cements his role as a town role even further and I don't think there's any point in thinking about this further, because it would just be a bunch of waffling and for once I'm pretty sure I'd always come back to the conclusion that CF7 is town.

Guess I should move on to other people.

Shadoweh is still not too reliable. Especially now that Oarfish has died and any doubt about his claim has been cleared up. Actually being the bodyguard would be next to impossible for her, if I understand the role correctly. But apparently, she might be the SK and that means we want her alive...? There aren't many people who seem to want to vote her, at any rate, which seems strange to me but I guess I'll go along with it.

Dear diary. I've been playing this game for 10 days now, and I have yet to stop waffling on Darkie. Nothing he says makes sense, which is normal for him, but it's also normal for him as scum. The way he continues to target players as "confirmed scum" when that is almost never the case, rarely allowing himself to change his stance despite the numerous logical arguments presented to him, strikes me as unhelpful at best. I can't help but wonder if he's taking advantage of his own meta in order to continue focusing on the players he wants to, in hopes of happening upon a solid case which will convince other players to consider his views. It worries me that he claimed doc, as it would make him one of the more damaging lynches left to be wrong about, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that's not actually a good reason to assume he's telling the truth.

Conq still worries me for some strange reason and it would be fantastic if I could come up with a reason that goes beyond "gut". I'm kind of entertaining the idea that there was only one death last night because I blocked him from carrying out a kill, but SB and Conq are pretty likely targets to be killed so it could have just been prevented by a doc. Then again who knows if Darkie is actually telling the truth about his actions so... Ugh. Okay, screw night action speculation. Conq is super-null right now and my gut won't stay quiet about him, that's the bottom line here.

Cut by an unhelpful-looking VCA, and another Shadoweh vote. Maybe people are actually going to vote for her after all? I don't know if I understand the situation.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: SB on January 19, 2014, 06:37:24 PM
Unfortunately, my read of Shadoweh came up with nothing apart from rolespec weirdness (aka nothing playwise bugged me, just role stuff), but i pmed about the Bodyguard/Bulletproof thing and apparently the Bodyguard would die so lol.

read: shadoweh is confirmed scum
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Cheez8 on January 19, 2014, 06:40:33 PM
..."Unhelpful-looking" sounds kind of mean. Sorry! I just meant to agree with you, in the sense that I'm not really getting much of anything from it either.

And cut. Well, yeah, that's what I figured... but I was holding off because apparently she's actually only a confirmed liar and people think it would be better for the SK to be left alive and also think that she's the SK.

Now that I think about it though it would kind of be pretty dumb to know that somebody is the SK and leave them alive to keep killing, and also I have no idea why she'd be the SK as opposed to scum.

##Vote: Shadoweh
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Dorian White on January 19, 2014, 06:58:38 PM
## Unvote
I don't want to get cut by another ?accidental? hammer.^^;

@ SB: Just to get it straight, there is nothing that bugged you about her back and forth reads on Ninja? Cause I think that's more a playwise problem than a role problem.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: SB on January 19, 2014, 07:11:32 PM
I... honestly forgot that. The only memorable things were to do with rolespec so meh.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Raikaria on January 19, 2014, 07:40:46 PM
Votecount of the Adamantine Strands

Shadoweh (3): Conq; SB; Cheez8
CF7 (1): DNA
DNA (1): Serela

Not Voting (3): CF7; Shadoweh; Dorian

With 8 alive; it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is here:
http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140121T0002&p0=136&msg=End+of+Day+3&csz=1
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Dorian White on January 19, 2014, 08:53:54 PM
I... honestly forgot that. The only memorable things were to do with rolespec so meh.
That still strikes me as odd. I mean, haven't you said that you read her just a moment before that?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: SB on January 19, 2014, 09:03:53 PM
I pretty ctrl+f'd through all of her posts and didn't really have much of an impression of her beforehand so I didn't really spot the inconsistencies. My bad.

If Shadoweh is scum and not SK that makes a Shadoweh/DNA/Zakeri scumteam seem pretty plausible to me.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 19, 2014, 09:21:34 PM
Quote
but i pmed about the Bodyguard/Bulletproof thing and apparently the Bodyguard would die so lol.
lmao

the only reason i wanted to keep the sk alive over scum is to keep the possibility of crosskills alive. but after dorian asked me what specifically made me think shadoweh was sk over scum i realized that the reasons were that strong anyway and she could be either one honestly.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 19, 2014, 09:23:53 PM
*reasons werent
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 19, 2014, 09:29:30 PM
on second thought shadoweh probably isnt sk anyway given that if she were sk she'd be trying harder to hunt for mafia here instead of trolling >_>
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Dorian White on January 20, 2014, 12:57:23 AM
on second thought shadoweh probably isnt sk anyway given that if she were sk she'd be trying harder to hunt for mafia here instead of trolling >_>
I'm wondering about that for a while, cause I actually expect more from her no matter which alignment she has.^^;
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Shadoweh on January 20, 2014, 03:15:52 AM
I'm wondering about that for a while, cause I actually expect more from her no matter which alignment she has.^^;
i'M PLEADING THE fIFTH, DON'T THEY HAVE THAT DOWN THERE?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 20, 2014, 03:19:36 AM
goddammit shadoweh y u gotta break my heart like that? :<

anything interesting you want to share?
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 20, 2014, 03:27:56 AM
Extent of Shadoweh D3:"YOU STOLE MY SONG YOU THIEF"

You're not making the slightest attempt at absolutely anything, in any part of d3, despite being far and away the lynchee of today, let's just lynch it already.

##Unvote ##Vote Shadoweh
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 20, 2014, 03:29:32 AM
like, I relooked over d3 and she literally never comments on anything
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Shadoweh on January 20, 2014, 03:33:13 AM
I would like to point out I tried to break alot more then your heart. People are suposed to die when they're killed.
I'm torn between informing everyone exactly how serial you are and just wishing you good luck. Burn the whole god damn thing down!
Also you should totes kill whoever it is that keeps blocking our kills. I'm sorry that I suck so bad at murdering people. Don't worry, I've left a careful battle plan behind in order to make sure we can joint win, it goes like this:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/398x324q90/585/0ueg.png)
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 20, 2014, 03:33:47 AM
cut by shadoweh claiming maf, saw that coming a mile away
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 20, 2014, 03:34:34 AM
It took me a minute to realize that it doesn't say "Epic HS"

I was like, "what epic high school, I don't get it"
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 20, 2014, 03:36:25 AM
Shadoweh be a dear and hammer yourself so we can save some time c:
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Shadoweh on January 20, 2014, 03:38:17 AM
Super High School Level. You will never understand my artistic genius.
Also make me.
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Serela on January 20, 2014, 03:39:12 AM
Sorry but I'm only vanilla.

You know what this is like. :C
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Shadoweh on January 20, 2014, 03:55:19 AM
Actually I changed my mind. Time to nap!
##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Conqueror on January 20, 2014, 04:04:33 AM
cut by shadoweh claiming maf, saw that coming a mile away
If if took you until that post to realize that Shadoweh was claiming mafia, well...:V

Quote
I'm torn between informing everyone exactly how serial you are and just wishing you good luck.
Please tell your teammates to kill me, as I don't actually have a kill and just want this game to finish already. :V
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: BigBangMeteor on January 20, 2014, 04:18:01 AM
hammer shut up until Raikaria wakes up
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Day 3
Post by: Raikaria on January 20, 2014, 10:15:09 AM
Shadoweh; playing Urist Mc Not Urist was hung from a tree!

Shadoweh; you are Urist Mc NotUrist: Goblin Thief [Mafia Roleclop]

You are not actually a dwarf, but the Urists are too stupid to notice, and besides, you are a master of stealth. You scout out the Mountainhomes, looking for loot to steal, and reporting back on valuable targets to the Goblin forces. Each night, you may use one of these actions:

##Kill: - Perform the mafia nightkill. You cannot do this if some other member of the mafia is.
##Roleclop: Discover the role of one target at whim.

You win when your faction can control the lynch without outside assistance. Good luck!

It is now night 3; PM me and BBM your night actions. Night 3 is 24 hours.

Votecount of the Dead Goblin

Shadoweh (5): Conq; SB; Cheez8; Serela; Shadoweh [L-0!]
CF7 (1): DNA

Not Voting (2): CF7;; Dorian
Title: Re: Urist Fortress Mafia - Night 3
Post by: Raikaria on January 20, 2014, 11:51:14 PM
See Next Thread - http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16193.0.html