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What are some stuff and scenarios that you have never seen done in the fandom, or very little is seen of it, and you wish to see them more often? It can range from anything: fan arts, fan fics, fan games, and such.
I like to see:
1. Kaguya's implied super strength being showcased
2. Eirin and Keine having a rival/enemy-like relationship with each other, like with Kaguya and Mokou.
3. Yukari struggling during battles and not being all-powerful and curbstomping her opponents, even going as far as losing really badly.
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3. Yukari struggling during battles and not being all-powerful and curbstomping her opponents, even going as far as losing really badly.
Interestin', I'd like to see a lot less of this (with any character really, same with the inverse of making a traditionally unimposing character curbstomp the traditional powerhouses). The worf effect is rarely done well.
I'd like to see:
1. Works that fill the vagueness of canon with detail porn
2. Semi-serious thesis-style articles trying to logically justify contradictions in the series
3. Friendly Mokou, sane Flandre, EoSD stage 6 or fighting-game personalities for Remilia
4. Works serving as prologues to the games, especially the Scarlet or Moriya groups, starting before they even decide to go to gensokyo
5. Marisa-Alice-Patchouli studying
6. Yuyuko and Yukari bein' pals
7. Calm and collected or inexperienced gung-ho Youmu
8. PoV pieces
9. References or in-jokes that you might actually miss if you aren't paying attention
10. Meiling with grey pants instead of that legless chinese whatchamacallit getup
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6. Yuyuko and Yukari bein' pals
Isn't that the norm already? I can't really remember anything with them not being friends or do you mean Yukari not teasing her and whatnot?
Oh and being pretty subtle there.
I'd like to see:
1. Vampire Sakuya (It's constantly referenced in fan-works on this subject and I've only seen one doujin series with this)
2. Sane version of normally portrayed insane characters
3. More works that don't center around the large groups (SDM,Moriya's, PCB YuYukari group and so forth)
4. Less jerk "HAX Sign" Reimu (Sanae too with being a jerk)
5. A mature MariAli relationship (As in Alice not bleeding and slobbering over Marisa constantly)
6. Works that use SoPM for Koishi and Satori centered plots
7. What if? Styled stories
8. Renko and Merry actually in Gensokyo + without Merry being Yukari
9. Time Travel
10. Medicine with Alice stories (does not need to be lovely)
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3. Friendly Mokou, sane Flandre, EoSD stage 6 or fighting-game personalities for Remilia
Mokou's generally portrayed as relatively good-natured, just not too good at expressing herself.
She's like an onion, see? ("She makes you cry?" "Well, yes and no.") She's got layers.
And generally there's at least two breeds of Flan that I've seen often in fanworks. The batshit insane sort, and the sweet and innocent sort with shades of devilishness. The latter is at least some degree of sane, if a bit twisted and ominous at times.
As for Remi, I've grown used to -and see it as the norm for her- the cocky, arrogant, and charismatic portrayals. Like what you see in Imizu's works. It just fits her as a person.
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Kasen being an Oni, and even going so far as her being one of the four devas. Because, why not? Being a hermit is like the best way to fix all the "traditional sins" an Oni has, such as excessive drinking and fighting .
For something I'd like to see less of, Patchouli being just a moe-blob. It's cute the first couple of times, but it wears on you after awhile.
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Oh, in regard to Yukari losing fights, I actually let that happen in my Smash Bros./Touhou crossover. I know some other fan works depicting her losing fights, though when compared to her being portrayed as being all-powerful, it's not as commonly seen.
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Isn't that the norm already? I can't really remember anything with them not being friends or do you mean Yukari not teasing her and whatnot?
Oh, it's the norm, but I'd still like to see more of it. Usually when they interact it's either too brief or something else is going on.
Mokou's generally portrayed as relatively good-natured, just not too good at expressing herself.
As for Remi, I've grown used to -and see it as the norm for her- the cocky, arrogant, and charismatic portrayals. Like what you see in Imizu's works. It just fits her as a person.
Mokou: oh, really? I thought the fandom generally went with the rude loner or kaguya-hating flanderisation depiction. Never got used to those interpretations since she seems so chummy in IN.
Remilia: I actually like pretty much every portrayal of her I've seen, but the demure or aristocratic type is so rarely done I'd like to see a few works using it instead.
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5. A mature MariAli relationship (As in Alice not bleeding and slobbering over Marisa constantly)
And about the serious MariAli thing, there is a (sad) musical video about it exploring the fact that Marisa is mortal and Alice isn't, for me is pretty good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-cT2nDslCs
9. Time Travel
Time travel noooooooooooooooooo :P
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-Shiki actually being portrayed as a serious but fair individual instead of the breast-size-obsessed brat that fandom makes her out to be.
-Reisen actually getting respect. Meiling's finally gotten time in the sun, why not Reisen?
-Less stupidly-done yandere Alice. It's such a dumb trait to latch onto in her case, especially since it doesn't have much evidence going for it. And at any rate she's an interesting character and turning her into a dumb mentally-unstable stalker is selling things short, ya know?
-Byakuren just chillin' with the other magicians.
-Hilariously/tragically-awkward Mokou-Kaguya interactions instead of murder-on-sight interactions, since according to the bookies they've chilled out sliiiiightly.
-More postulating what the Myouren crew did in the ooooold days.
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I'd like to see:
10. Medicine with Alice stories (does not need to be lovely)
Have you read Omoito? It may not be "about" Medicine, but she does play a fairly significant part in the story (being on the cover of one of the 4 manga). Its the one where Alice's Hourai doll is the main character (having gained consciousness, not exactly a spoiler as its the premise).
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Omoito is glorious. I cried a bit at the end. Everyone should read it, even if you don't give a crap about doujinshi otherwise.
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@Kaze Senshi
Yeah that video slipped my mind although the mature MariAli stories (that I've seen atleast) end up centering around Marisa's mortality, in fact it'd be interesting to see the Youkai side of die first before the mortal.
Also why don't you want Time travel?
@Xeurian
Yep I've read it (one of my favorite series' actually it's extremely awesome) it did make me more interested in Medi and so thus I'd want to see more stories centering around her + some with Alice (Oh and Fully Automated Dolls, those became a lot more wanted by me)
Oh and take a guess where my avatar is from :P
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-Stories where Reimu is a villain (with a good reason for such). As for the heroine/heroines, I wouldn't mind the games' heroines if they don't have the plot armor.
-Shou-Hijiri relationship taking their current canon relationship in account.
-Ran and Mamizou stories where they start with a not-so-good relationship due to their species (but not something like the Kaguya-Mokou "TO THE DEATH" situations) and come to terms in a bromance.
There are more, but I am busy at the moment.
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-Stories where Reimu is a villain (with a good reason for such).
I'd think anything written from a youkai perspective would place her as the main villain - technically, that's what she is to most of 'em. ;P
Would love to see more of it too though. Touhou seems to center around the humans' plight most despite Gensokyo being a world by/for youkai. How does Reimu get away with going around indiscriminately exorcising the native (for all intent and purpose) inhabitants of some other world while acting like she's the good guy?
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I'd think anything written from a youkai perspective would place her as the main villain - technically, that's what she is to most of 'em. ;P
Would love to see more of it too though. Touhou seems to center around the humans' plight most despite Gensokyo being a world by/for youkai. How does Reimu get away with going around indiscriminately exorcising the native (for all intent and purpose) inhabitants of some other world while acting like she's the good guy?
Because she apparently is at least as harsh on humans and near-humans who get out of line...Or get in her way.
On another note, I'd like to see more Ichirin doing...Something. Anything. :getdown:
Also, Byakuren as a nice-but-conflicted/imperfect person would be an interesting change.
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If I could actually draw worth a damn I'd try my hand at doing a few of these.
Well, I suppose I could write horrible fanon.
Anyways...
1. Canon Momiji (hates Aya, more serious)
2. A MANtasm stage (horrible pun, please don't)
3. Less MANosuke
4. Remilia, motherly figure
5. Eientei mafia
6. Mamizou shenanigans
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Canon-like Shou (not airhead)
Lecturing Shikieiki (like in PoFV)
MokouxEirin (sorry)
Oh, what's/where's Kaguya's "super strength" implied?
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Canon-like Shou (not airhead)
Lecturing Shikieiki (like in PoFV)
MokouxEirin (sorry)
Oh, what's/where's Kaguya's "super strength" implied?
I think the above poster meant much more magically powerful than she lets on, rather than boulder-lifting-type strength.
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I think the above poster meant much more magically powerful than she lets on, rather than boulder-lifting-type strength.
That's what I mean. Where such thing is implied?
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That's what I mean. Where such thing is implied?
Bigger spellcard armory than Remi or Yuyuko, isn't afraid to fight when it's fightin' time, actually is EIRIN'S backup in Final A route in IN, and lastly ZUN was considering putting her in Hisoutensouku but figured she would be overpowered.
That and the Lunarians seem to have a fine tradition of being somewhat slightly overpowered in general. :V
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Well, her moveset (mechanics wise) was overpowered, not the character. And she's weaker than Eirin, who avoids using her powers out of respect for Kaguya.
I believe she's shown strong enough, Mokou often gets the short end of the stick in drawings and doujin comics. One thing that this discussion reminded me, is that her control over eternity is never showcased (outside of keeping Eientei's history), similar to Remi's over fate.
Anyway, when not the NEET bs, I think the fanon's interpretion of her is pretty awesome :P
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@Kaze Senshi
Yeah that video slipped my mind although the mature MariAli stories (that I've seen atleast) end up centering around Marisa's mortality, in fact it'd be interesting to see the Youkai side of die first before the mortal.
Also why don't you want Time travel?
Well in my opinion if one story was planned from the start to be a "normal" story, without time travels, and the director decides to include a time travel, the chances of f(#& the story is big. But thinking better, it's a fanon, so why not?
And the Youkai side can die before if you kill it :(
2. A MANtasm stage (horrible pun, please don't)
How about a Cantasm stage ( Phan = Fan(on) -> Can(on) ) :P
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@Kaze Senshi
Yeah I meant as in how the human/mortal side deals with the loss, since "Tragedy of a Long Life" themed stories show how the Youkai side copes, so I'd like to see it turned on its head.
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4. Remilia, motherly figure
I'd like to see some of that too. Speaking of the SDM,
1. Meiling and Sakuya being buddies.
2. A respected Meiling.
3. More flakey Sakuya. (This is a lady who opened a window in space and once tried to buy a chipped cup.)
4. A childlike Flandre that doesn't go batshit. Why is it almost everytime she's shown sane, she mature and adult like. Why can't she be childlike and sane? That's why "A Bright Future" is probably one of my favorite doujin.
Others
1. Ichirin doing stuff.
2. Shou actually using that spear of hers.
3. Less batshit insane Sanae, Koishi, Medicine, Yuuka, ect.
4. Specifically Yuuka. (Don't bother her and she'll probably ignore you or at worst seriously mess with you. Like she did with Cirno in PoFV)
5. Tenshi not being a abused. (She's an attention starved lonely rich kid not a super pervy masochist)
6. Tewi's luck being played up more.
7. Stoic, Snarky Alice.
8. Intellegent Yuyuko.
9. More childlike, less stupid, GREAT HAM Cirno.
10. Scenery porn. (Gensokyo is a beutiful place and I want to see more of it.)
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Mokou: oh, really? I thought the fandom generally went with the rude loner or kaguya-hating flanderisation depiction. Never got used to those interpretations since she seems to chummy in IN.
Well, I always saw it as her getting caught on a moderately good day.
The way I see her, she's more able to express herself easier on a good day, but most of the time she comes across as rude and jerkish due to not quite being able to fully express herself.
Solitude+Immortality=Inability to Properly Express Yourself Easily
Basically, she's a good person on a good day, but but sometimes has issues. And let's face it, you would too if you lived like she did prior to entering Gensokyo.
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One thing I would like to see is Marisa becoming a Youkai magician and dealing with the deaths of her mortal friends. Or maybe her becoming a Youkai in the first place would be good enough for now.
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I'd think anything written from a youkai perspective would place her as the main villain - technically, that's what she is to most of 'em. ;P
Would love to see more of it too though. Touhou seems to center around the humans' plight most despite Gensokyo being a world by/for youkai. How does Reimu get away with going around indiscriminately exorcising the native (for all intent and purpose) inhabitants of some other world while acting like she's the good guy?
Oh man, this could be like a Dances With Wolves type of thing. Sanae could be heading out to hunt some youkai, only she's captured. At first she despises them, but as she comes to "learn their ways", her respect for them grows. Eventually, she considers herself one of them, as they accept her more and more into their community. This culminates in a showdown between a Sanae-led army of youkai against Reimu - a fiery speech from Reimu about "betraying humans" and an impassioned plea for tolerance and understanding from Sanae would preface the battle. In the end, the youkai are defeated, and Sanae is left as a broken shell of a human being.
The end!
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Oh man, this could be like a Dances With Wolves type of thing. Sanae could be heading out to hunt some youkai, only she's captured. At first she despises them, but as she comes to "learn their ways", her respect for them grows. Eventually, she considers herself one of them, as they accept her more and more into their community. This culminates in a showdown between a Sanae-led army of youkai against Reimu - a fiery speech from Reimu about "betraying humans" and an impassioned plea for tolerance and understanding from Sanae would preface the battle. In the end, the youkai are defeated, and Sanae is left as a broken shell of a human being.
The end!
That's basically what already happened with Byakuren, though. :V
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That's basically what already happened with Byakuren, though. :V
No. Byakuren was never anti-youkai, she didn't slowly come to realize that youkai are special, nor did she lead an army to try and confront the hoomins. Byakuren's story is very, very different.
The character transformation is the most crucial part, though. That's what makes the whole thing, especially if it's someone as gung-ho anti-youkai as Sanae has been.
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No, Byakuren was never anti-youkai, nor did she lead an army to try and confront the hoomins. The character transformation is the most crucial part, though.
Oooooooh, okay. Sorry, didn't quite grok the nuance of what you were initially saying.
She did masquerade as a youkai exterminator but she was never truly anti-youkai, even prior to Myouren's death.
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According to the fluff, she didn't care much for the Youkai at first though.
She was just indifferent towards them. She eventually grew to care for them though, as she helped and met many others.
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Now that you mention it, it does sound more and more like Touhou Dances With Wolves.
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Canon-like Shou (not airhead)
Lecturing Shikieiki (like in PoFV)
MokouxEirin (sorry)
Oh, what's/where's Kaguya's "super strength" implied?
New Impossible Request "Seamless Ceiling of Kinkaku-ji's description
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/The_Grimoire_of_Marisa/Kaguya_Houraisan%27s_Spell_Cards
So no, I'm not referring to her strong magical powers, but actual boulder-lifting strength. I remember Aya mentioning it as well, but can't find it anymore...
And an alien invasion story would be fun too.
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Yep, Kaguya is magically and physically adept if she tries. Her time manipulation skills are also supposedly much better than Sakuya's.
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I want to see makers in Japan promote more stuff directly to English-speaking audiences.
Partly for the sake of wallets/linking up, partly for the sake of sweet self-liberation from Danbooru. :colonveeplusalpha:
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Also, Byakuren as a nice-but-conflicted/imperfect person would be an interesting change.
This is kinda how she was portrayed in SoPM, yeah? I enjoyed that. I imagine it will influence fanworks in some manner.
I want to see remixes of Nuclear Fusion that are better than the original track (note: this is nearly impossible).
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What are some stuff and scenarios that you have never seen done in the fandom, or very little is seen of it, and you wish to see them more often? It can range from anything: fan arts, fan fics, fan games, and such.
I like to see:
1. Kaguya's implied super strength being showcased
2. Eirin and Keine having a rival/enemy-like relationship with each other, like with Kaguya and Mokou.
3. Yukari struggling during battles and not being all-powerful and curbstomping her opponents, even going as far as losing really badly.
I've actually been on an Touhou RP site where I chose to use Kaguya, and made the strength, and skill in close combat a major point to stress, since she constantly fights with Mokou... who is implied to be a beast in close combat. And she kills her. Of course she's also a lazy goofball.
I thought it was canon that Keine and Eirin get along somewhat, and are more like *Here they go again eh?*. Maybe I'm wrong. If I'm wrong it's me taking my fanon as canon. :V
Yukari could just manipulate the border of win and loss and would win due to that. As much as I'd love to see Yukari lose... it's virtually impossible to justify because she's hax.
That aside, I'd love to see more of characters that really don't get enough light.
I mean, how often do you see the fandom recognize, say, Medicine?
I'd also like some of the ridiculous takes on characters to be killed. LOOKING AT YOU FANON RAN.
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Yukari could just manipulate the border of win and loss and would win due to that. As much as I'd love to see Yukari lose... it's virtually impossible to justify because she's hax.
That's just a fanon interpretation. Her border manipulation are clearly limited, even if it is strong.
She is probably about as strong as any final boss from Touhou 6 to 8 and the fighting game bosses.
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That's just a fanon interpretation. Her border manipulation are clearly limited, even if it is strong.
She is probably about as strong as any final boss from Touhou 6 to 8 and the fighting game bosses.
I always thought her strongest suit was planning, secrecy, misdirection and tricking others into thinking she's more incoherently looney than she really was, rather than any straight up combat prowess.
After all, she didn't orchestrate the moon invasion because she wanted to HOLD the moon, she orchestrated it because she wanted the earthbound youkai to learn a lesson.
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That's just a fanon interpretation. Her border manipulation are clearly limited, even if it is strong.
She is probably about as strong as any final boss from Touhou 6 to 8 and the fighting game bosses.
And when have we seen Yukari fighting seriously? Even as a Phantasm Boss, she just used Ran's attacks basically. I doubt Yukari's serious attacks are just clones of Ran's. I mean, why would she have put the effort into fighting seriously in PCB if she was fighting to avoid putting the effort into fixing the border instead?
Yes, it's limited. She can't go to the moon willy-nilly. But that doesn't mean she can't gap to anywhere on Earth. And for all we know she can't go to the moon because someone interferes with her tying to do so, like the Sisters, who are equally, if not moreso, hax. It's implied she can even manipulate the border of life and death viva her spellcard names, manipulating winning and losing is nothing compared to that.
And we know she has the power to take MULTIPLE youkai to the moon, albeit, on the full moon only.
Just because there are limitations doesn't mean they are relevant if the limits are stupidly high.
If you are suggesting that Yukari is actually on par with Remilia in terms of power, or Yuyuko, when she can use her border manipulation to achieve the exact same as those two and so, so much more... I'll have to say you're wrong. Not to mention she's far smarter than Remilia at least, and likely Yuyuko too.
Really the only ones who could fight Yukari if she was serious are the gods, such as Suwako and Kanako, because they are well... gods, Yuugi due to her 'supernatural control' and, as stated in canon, Shikieiki, who is stated to have no problem with Reimu, Yukari and Yuyuko at ONCE if she fought seriously.
Of course, that's the issue. Yukari being serious. Being so lazy she'd probably never fight seriously unless Gensokyo itself was at stake.
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Oh sweet Christmas no.
Please please please can we not get into a power level discussion? In my humble opinion it's a painfully ridiculous idea for many reasons.
If I must list them I shall do so with righteous OCD-destroying anger.
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I always thought her strongest suit was planning, secrecy, misdirection and tricking others into thinking she's more incoherently looney than she really was, rather than any straight up combat prowess.
Plus, it's a lot more interesting to use that side of the character than the pewpewness.
Please please please can we not get into a power level discussion? In my humble opinion it's a painfully ridiculous idea for many reasons.
Also, this. It's like trying to decide who was the smartest ancient academic, except we have maybe a tenth of the works they did during their lifetimes, no objective metric to measure smartitude, and are comparing a multitude of completely unrelated fields: obviously it's Archimedes, but good luck making an objective argument to convince anyone else of the truth of it. :V
Shikieiki, who is stated to have no problem with Reimu, Yukari and Yuyuko at ONCE if she fought seriously.
Might be remembering wrong, but we had a discussion about this a while back and IIRC it was decided the "no match for her" thing was referring to how they can't live up to her standards in terms of virtue, not danmaku prowess.
Anywhoo!
I'd like to see more touhou stories with weird genres, like a mystia mystery thriller or a gensokyo documentary.
...Actually I'd just like to see a whole lot of Gensokyo Documentaries. Comics, novellas, videos with a David Attenborough impersonation narrating, 'sall good.
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I want to see the
Crocodile Youkai Hunter. :getdown:
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We need a prequel of Touhou of some sort. I mean they can show all the events like the moon invasion and the beginning of gensoukyo. Reimu wouldn't obviously be there but since youkai can live thousands of years most of the youkai we have all come to love would still be alive. I would love to see this idea come true someday.
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After all, she didn't orchestrate the moon invasion because she wanted to HOLD the moon, she orchestrated it because she wanted the earthbound youkai to learn a lesson.
That's just fanon speculation though. Wasn't it stated somewhere that the reason Yukari invaded the Moon was to steal their technology?
We need a prequel of Touhou of some sort. I mean they can show all the events like the moon invasion and the beginning of gensoukyo. Reimu wouldn't obviously be there but since youkai can live thousands of years most of the youkai we have all come to love would still be alive. I would love to see this idea come true someday.
Yeah, I'd love to see a well-done doujin or fanfic about this. But really, not all youkai would be there, only the old ones. So don't add Mystia or Rumia.
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I want to see an Eiki that isn't a midget.
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Oh sweet Christmas no.
Please please please can we not get into a power level discussion? In my humble opinion it's a painfully ridiculous idea for many reasons.
I'd also like to point out that powerlevel discussions are expressly forbidden in the Welcome To TARC sticky.
I'd like to see more real journalistic rivalry between Aya and Hatate. They do represent two distinct types of journalism: Aya is the kind of reporter who is driven by getting the scoop; to be first to report on something that no one else knows. Hatate, by contrast, might miss the scoop, but she could be more of a research-based investigative journalist, who digs deeper than a reporter who wants to get the scoop fast, bringing things to light that might have never been seen. I want to see more of these sides of them, and their contrasts between each other, depicted in fanworks.
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Besides, it's quite obvious that Cirno is da strongest. :V
I mean...
Less horribly obvious memes.
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That's just fanon speculation though. Wasn't it stated somewhere that the reason Yukari invaded the Moon was to steal their technology?
Hell if I know, I'm just going by what the Touhou wiki told me. And at any rate, given that this is Yukari we're talking about, "all of the above" is a not-implausible motivation.
This is kinda how she was portrayed in SoPM, yeah? I enjoyed that. I imagine it will influence fanworks in some manner.
Still wondering if it's going to prevent the BYAKUREN IS YOUKAI HITLER CROWD from latching onto every negative trait they can find in that instance.
It made (some) sense in Koishi's Subtitling Adventure because someone or something on the Moon was apparently warping people's minds to turn them against each other, but other than that I've yet to find a Byaku in that ilk that didn't make me just want to deck the artist responsible.
Well, except for one case by Zounose, which still made me want to deck him a bit but at least had an original view of precisely Team Myouren's moral compass was. (Namely, forced to make some ugly decisions and anxiously pray that they wouldn't blow up in everyone's face.)
(P.S. Jackerel, if you're reading this, I'm now slightly convinced that Stripe Pattern is stealth-parodying this sort of bullshit, or just himself. I mean, seriously? 8-bit pixel art and RPG menus in the middle of grimdark bloodbaths? No amount of good writing will make that NOT hilarious to me, intentionally or otherwise.)
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We need a prequel of Touhou of some sort. I mean they can show all the events like the moon invasion and the beginning of gensoukyo. Reimu wouldn't obviously be there but since youkai can live thousands of years most of the youkai we have all come to love would still be alive. I would love to see this idea come true someday.
Not exactly what you're looking for, but have you seen Shitenno! by Fuukadia/Narcolepsy/Govurin/whatever he's called now?
It's pretty interesting.
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Hell if I know, I'm just going by what the Touhou wiki told me. And at any rate, given that this is Yukari we're talking about, "all of the above" is a not-implausible motivation.
I just checked it and it seems it came from this sentence in PMiSS.
It is believed because of that incident, youkai usually do not choose to attack outside their territory.
It's never really stated that it was Yukari's plan all along so it boils down to whether you want a more villainous Yukari or not.
Still wondering if it's going to prevent the BYAKUREN IS YOUKAI HITLER CROWD from latching onto every negative trait they can find in that instance.
It made (some) sense in Koishi's Subtitling Adventure because someone or something on the Moon was apparently warping people's minds to turn them against each other, but other than that I've yet to find a Byaku in that ilk that didn't make me just want to deck the artist responsible.
Well, except for one case by Zounose, which still made me want to deck him a bit but at least had an original view of precisely Team Myouren's moral compass was. (Namely, forced to make some ugly decisions and anxiously pray that they wouldn't blow up in everyone's face.)
(P.S. Jackerel, if you're reading this, I'm now slightly convinced that Stripe Pattern is stealth-parodying this sort of bullshit, or just himself. I mean, seriously? 8-bit pixel art and RPG menus in the middle of grimdark bloodbaths? No amount of good writing will make that NOT hilarious to me, intentionally or otherwise.)
Oh please, you're exaggerating. I've never seen people calling Byakuren "youkai Hitler".
Really, Byakuren had made some questionable decisions in her past life like sacrificing those sailors for Murasa. It would be nice if there's a doujin that brings up her feelings about them and how she could cope with her sins in the past.
Also, I like Love and Peace. It has a gorgeous art and it has an interesting interpretation of Byakuren and her whole "equality between humans and youkai" philosophy.
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I just checked it and it seems it came from this sentence in PMiSS.
It's never really stated that it was Yukari's plan all along so it boils down to whether you want a more villainous Yukari or not.
Oh please, you're exaggerating. I've never seen people calling Byakuren "youkai Hitler".
Really, Byakuren had made some questionable decisions in her past life like sacrificing those sailors for Murasa. It would be nice if there's a doujin that brings up her feelings about them and how she could cope with her sins in the past.
Also, I like Love and Peace. It has a gorgeous art and it has an interesting interpretation of Byakuren and her whole "equality between humans and youkai" philosophy.
Admittedly yes. Forgive me for not being clear that I was exaggerating out of humor/annoyance.
Mainly I'm just annoyed with the meme that all nice people/religious people are ticking time bombs. (This is partly due to putting up with right-wing bullshit in America. It gets old after a while, especially when Jesus was a nice guy according to the record.)
As for Yukari, I strongly put her motivations as Chaotic Neutral in D&D terms.
As for the sailors, what I want to know is whether she willingly used them as disposable pawns or just simply did not anticipate how wrathful Murasa would be.
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- More fanmade arcade shooters (or shmups, i'm familiar with both names just) WITH INNOVATING MECHANISMS. Like this Suwako-chan Cubic. And less Danamkufu scripts with reusing the official characters.
- A manga about Rika (it is done?).
- If it's done, i want a manga about Meira. Hahah.
- A mature-looking Remilia. A LOT OF #%$^$&4 MATURE-LOOKING REMILIAS. I'm sick of fanon-flanderizing of the final bosses.
- A Toohoo version of the My Neighbours the Yamadas. Just because i like everything from the fandom that is cartoonish.
- PONY.MOV-alike parody. Based on the games, NOT characters.
- More Seihou arranges. Especially from the second game. Nobody really cares about Heart of Valkyrie :V .
The first one is actually most important for me. I have to hear the majority of the arranges, and stuff, but the shmup game is always appreciated.
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If you are suggesting that Yukari is actually on par with Remilia in terms of power, or Yuyuko, when she can use her border manipulation to achieve the exact same as those two and so, so much more... I'll have to say you're wrong. Not to mention she's far smarter than Remilia at least, and likely Yuyuko too.
I will avoid comparing power levels. All I can say is you are simply exaggerating her powers.
<Tengukami> Everything struck out here is the definition of a power levels discussion. Drop this. Not asking again.
This is exactly what I meant by fanon interpretation.
Yuyuko is more than likely smarter than Yukari. This is most obvious in Imperishable Night, where Yuyuko was the only person who knew before hand that you choose the wrong route.
And second, there is no indication whatsoever that Yukari is smarter than Remilia. Remilia knew all about Yukari's plan, Remilia simply didn't care. However, you can assume Yukari is smarter than Remilia, but you cannot be sure of it.
Really the only ones who could fight Yukari if she was serious are the gods, such as Suwako and Kanako, because they are well... gods, Yuugi due to her 'supernatural control' and, as stated in canon, Shikieiki, who is stated to have no problem with Reimu, Yukari and Yuyuko at ONCE if she fought seriously.
Once again, powers exaggeration. Yuugi has no such power. You may want to recheck what Yuugi's power really is, it doesn't actually mean anything at all.
Also, please note that none of the Touhou final bosses fight seriously. This would be against the spell card rules. These spell card rules were meant to avoid final bosses from going all out, because they are simply too dangerous.
As for Yukari, I strongly put her motivations as Chaotic Neutral in D&D terms.
Chaotic? I put her as Lawful Neutral or Neutral Neutral. True Neutral is the term I guess...
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Chaotic? I put her as Lawful Neutral or Neutral Neutral. True Neutral is the term I guess...
Lawful or True Neutrals don't swat people around for laughs on occasion like Yukari does---or at least disguise targeted swattings as for laughs.
Also, I thought manipulation of the supernatural was a subset of Yuugi's abilities---or a description of her abilities from an earlier ZUNbook, IIRC.
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If you have the ability to categorize a character entirely into one alignment, they are probably either a poorly-written character or you aren't thinking hard enough. Yukari is not a poorly-written character. I wholly discourage the use of D&D alignments to seriously categorize anything but D&D characters for this reason, as it is a huge proponent of people simply shoving multidimensional characters into little boxes.
"Manipulation of the supernatural" is a term used by the western fandom because there is no translation or easy way to explain Yuugi's abilities, and "manipulation" itself isn't even present in her description. The long version is "Anomalies, strength, disorder, and spirits". They're entirely in reference to Confucius and have no real demonstrable meaning. I even had to add to the wiki the irony in that "it is appropriately unclear what exactly this ability allows Yuugi to do, since the ability itself is a metaphor for things that cannot be explained."
Lastly, the hints towards Yukari's true intention in the first Genso-Lunar war include
- her obvious cover excuse of a lunar infinite energy source
- a direct mention in her story in chapter 5 of CiLR that basically outlines her original scenario when she went to the Capital on her own out of whimsy, where she learned about the Lunarians' strength, technology, and the 30-day trap.
- the claim that she did it out of greed for power, which is not only completely against Yukari's behaviour, it ironically matches the sentiments of the youkai who actually wanted to invade
- the whole war was attempting to invade the Capital with the youkai, and failing in the exact way that Yukari herself failed.
I would also argue that Yukari would take great advantage of the 30-day trap and her new knowledge in her second "invasion" attempt rather than ignore it, which assuming that the plan in the Genso-Lunar war was to get trapped, succeeded brilliantly. Furthermore, Yukari's plan in SSiB also took great advantage of the knowledge previously gained in a very similar way. ZUN doesn't like just outright saying anything, especially with such an important event and especially when involving Yukari, who herself doesn't like just outright saying anything. At this point I wouldn't call it speculation.
Ahh, this let me reread CiLR's last chapter again. It's just so satisfying.
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GLARGH. Well forgive me for not having a spare brain the size of a small moon dedicated entirely to storing Touhou information. <____>
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I have to do research every time somebody says something that I'm pretty sure is wrong; even if I know the main points, I still need to look up the details and quotes and fact-check everything I'm saying. I was correcting lightdreamer more than you anyways, but regardless I don't like it when people put themselves down over being corrected. I'm not going to waste my time pumping out a huge post if I think it'll just fall on deaf ears, the point is to educate someone worth educating.
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I have to do research every time somebody says something that I'm pretty sure is wrong; even if I know the main points, I still need to look up the details and quotes and fact-check everything I'm saying. I was correcting lightdreamer more than you anyways, but regardless I don't like it when people put themselves down over being corrected. I'm not going to waste my time pumping out a huge post if I think it'll just fall on deaf ears, the point is to educate someone worth educating.
Ah, okay. Noted.
Thank you for being modest about it, for that matter---friend of mine says that some of the people at TV Tropes' Touhou thread can be unpleasantly uptight about canon, and one of them is apparently a translator for Wild and Horned Hermit, or so the offender says.
Really I just want everyone to take it easy.
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Ahh, this let me reread CiLR's last chapter again. It's just so satisfying.
I'll drink to that.
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I want to see an Eiki that isn't a midget.
This mostly.
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I want to see more stuff with the TD cast.
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I'd like to see more focus on the youkai societies. Mostly the tengu, but the kappa and the oni seem pretty interesting too. Other than Nitori, who as of SOPM seems to be "completely generic kappa", most of the examples of these races that we meet seem to be weirdos in their own culture. So I want to see an exploration of what it means to be a tengu, something that makes even Aya think she needs to make sacrifices as part of a group. And of course if there's a story about oni it should include Kasen because I'm biased towards hermits.
I'd also like to see more stories with Seiga as a villain. A cheerful villain. Because cheerfully doing evil, both petty and otherwise, is kind of her thing.Ah, okay. Noted.
Thank you for being modest about it, for that matter---friend of mine says that some of the people at TV Tropes' Touhou thread can be unpleasantly uptight about canon, and one of them is apparently a translator for Wild and Horned Hermit, or so the offender says.
Really I just want everyone to take it easy.
I'm an offender?!
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I'm an offender?!
So says JackMackerel at least. Accuses you of lording the fact over people's heads whenever canon/fanon stuff is disputed. (On the other hand as a semi-close friend of Jackerel's I can safely say that his default setting is "twitchy as fuck, albeit not necessarily always negatively so".)
I wouldn't know myself. Haven't touched TVTropes in, like, half a year.
You tell me, mang. \/ :V \/
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i can't vouch for clarste being a douche or not but if anything tvtropes is one place that is sorely needing of constant correction
and nuking
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i can't vouch for clarste being a douche or not but if anything tvtropes is one place that is sorely needing of constant correction
and nuking
Amen to that. :(
(Also, sorry if it sounded like I was antagonizing you, Clarste.)
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Amen to that. :(
(Also, sorry if it sounded like I was antagonizing you, Clarste.)
I thought it was more funny than antagonistic. Especially the part where I'm apparently translating WAHH but my word is untrustworthy or something so there's room for doubt.
I can't guarantee that I'm not unpleasantly uptight though.
Er... when I say it's funny I don't mean I'm laughing at you. It's just funny that Mackerel would have that image of me.
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I thought it was more funny than antagonistic. Especially the part where I'm apparently translating WAHH but my word is untrustworthy or something so there's room for doubt.
I can't guarantee that I'm not unpleasantly uptight though.
I think Jackerel's accusation was more that you dismissed Toho-related criticism rapidly but like I said I don't remember his exact beef at the moment. :V
At any rate I've yet to find anything *personally* offensive about you and the latest ish of WAHH (best acronym ever) seems solid enough so KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK or something. :getdown:
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I'll vote "yes" for Clarste being a douche. :)
30-day trap
What's that?
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What's that?
I think that was the window of time Yukari had to make the moon raid and then get back to Earth without getting trapped on the moon.
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What's that?
Temporary gender-reassignement. Goes away after a month or so.
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Oh yeah, there's another thing I'd like to see more...
http://imgur.com/s2LFL
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I want to see more works focusing on the lives of the villagers at the Human Village. I've yet to see one doujin that talks about them.
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What's [the 30-day trap]?
The moon used to have an exact orbital period around the earth of 28 days. Because the earth is rotating as well, the time it takes to get from one new moon to the next used to be exactly 30 days. Therefore, the lunar calendar was an accurate measurement where every month had 30 days, the start of the month would be the new moon and the 15th day would be the full moon.
A Lunarian sage (obviously posited to be Eirin) slowed down the rotational period of the moon to be 27 and a third days, which also means that a full moon does not actually occur on the fifteenth day, as it used to, because the "month" is now actually about 29 and a half days. Slowing down the moon's rotational period naturally caused the orbital period to also slow down to 27 and a third days due to gravity. Because of this, one part of the moon is always facing the earth, so we have the "near" and "far" sides of the moon.
In order to get to the moon, one would wait until the full moon so that the moon's whole surface can be seen in the sun's reflection and a connection between the reflection and the real moon can be made. Rather, they would wait for the 15th day on the calendar. Once they arrive, they will find the lunar seas. Now because the moon always faces the earth in the same way, the earth will be reflected back in the seas, which is the first part of the trap. You would see the earth's reflection and know that you can come back the same way you came. You spend some time on the moon, but when it's time to go back, the path is already closing because the moon is no longer full exactly on the 15th day and instead starts to wane earlier.
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Temporary gender-reassignement. Goes away after a month or so.
(http://i.imgur.com/Iqq4V.png)
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I wish to see more Hinaface.
For that matter I don't think it's replicable in create.swf, which makes me sad.
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need more koishi's story
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I wish to see more Hinaface.
Relevant.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4qs6jz8Pl1rtrtuko1_500.png)
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need more koishi's story
Koishi is actually notable for being a character with a decent amount of non-H works. Might as well just say "more stuff for every character".
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- More Koishi, especially the socially awkward kind, but completely oblivious to it.
- More lonely, depressed Satori.
- Tsundere Parsee.
- Utsuho being a silly birdbrain, and being adorable.
- More of blaming Remilia for being a coward and sealing her sister instead of taking care of her. I know it doesn't fit too well with canon, but seeing Flandre as a poor, sane victim and Remilia as an irresponsible bad sister makes me fuzzy inside.
- Snarky Alice/Patchouli. They are literally made of badass.
- More adorable Momiji. She's so cute!
- Yuuka / Yukari / Tewi trolling.
- Byakuren not being Hitler. Believe it or not, this is the first time I see people wanting to see her as a kind-hearted girl. It seems everyone else consider her the number 1 fan of fantastic racism.
- Silly Shou with serious Nazrin.
- Anything with the Aki sisters, Medicine or Shikieki. They're too absent.
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- Byakuren not being Hitler. Believe it or not, this is the first time I see people wanting to see her as a kind-hearted girl. It seems everyone else consider her the number 1 fan of fantastic racism.
Likewise. Which is baffling considering that she forgives Sanae for being a big bully in one of UFO's endings.
OTOH given how much of a cockgrind UFO can be maybe they just never made it that far. :V
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I think it's a natural reaction to seeing her portrayed so often as a flawless messiah figure, which she's also not. Overall, the racism analogy completely falls apart when you remember that youkai are supernaturally strong monsters that usually want to eat people. And, apparently, are metaphysically required to "attack" humans in order to continue existing. Not to mention she shelters people like Murasa who unapologetically continues to try to drown people.
I don't think she's Hitler, but she's certainly a morally gray character who's trying to do the right thing in a situation where "the right thing" isn't at all clear.
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I am lost on the whole Byakuren is Hitler thing. I've never seen it before. Everything I've seen is her being motherly and/or clueless (not stupid, but out of touch).
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I think it's a natural reaction to seeing her portrayed so often as a flawless messiah figure, which she's also not. Overall, the racism analogy completely falls apart when you remember that youkai are supernaturally strong monsters that usually want to eat people. And, apparently, are metaphysically required to "attack" humans in order to continue existing. Not to mention she shelters people like Murasa who unapologetically continues to try to drown people.
I thought the thing about Murasa still drowning people was Akyuu/Aya/whoever wrote her SOPM article possibly trying to slander her to keep a divide up between humans and youkai.
I am lost on the whole Byakuren is Hitler thing. I've never seen it before. Everything I've seen is her being motherly and/or clueless (not stupid, but out of touch).
It happens in Koishi's Heart-throbbing Adventure, some of Stripe Pattern's doujin and (sorta) happens in one of Zounose's doujin.
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Are TD based doujins not being made much much or translated?
I can only recall two with characters from that being central (heck even included) one with Mamizou and one with evil Seiga, was this how it was with UFO at the start?
So yeah that would be nice too.
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Are TD based doujins not being made much much or translated?
I can only recall two with characters from that being central (heck even included) one with Mamizou and one with evil Seiga, was this how it was with UFO at the start?
So yeah that would be nice too.
I know Chado's made at least two. And there's also Myon Myon Typhoon.
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Just most not being translated. There are quite an average amount.
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I thought the thing about Murasa still drowning people was Akyuu/Aya/whoever wrote her SOPM article possibly trying to slander her to keep a divide up between humans and youkai.
Ah yes, the old "Akyuu is lying" justification.
I swear next time we know she'll be called a racist.
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Ah yes, the old "Akyuu is lying" justification.
I swear next time we know she'll be called a racist.
She totally is! She says she doesn't want youkai in her house as long as they don't clean it!
SHE'S A RACIST, FREE LABOR LOVER!
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I want to see more stuff with the TD cast.
?
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I thought the thing about Murasa still drowning people was Akyuu/Aya/whoever wrote her SOPM article possibly trying to slander her to keep a divide up between humans and youkai.
You can read it that way, but the symposium itself makes it pretty clear that the youkai at the temple are up to no good behind her back. That may only be pranks and alcohol, but if they're not upholding some of their Buddhist values why would the people of the village assume they'd hold any of them? And it's pretty much undisputed that youkai need to attack humans, whatever that means. Even Byakuren's solution to that problem is to break down their sense of self with Buddhism. Which clearly isn't working since they aren't listening to her.
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You can read it that way, but the symposium itself makes it pretty clear that the youkai at the temple are up to no good behind her back. That may only be pranks and alcohol, but if they're not upholding some of their Buddhist values why would the people of the village assume they'd hold any of them? And it's pretty much undisputed that youkai need to attack humans, whatever that means. Even Byakuren's solution to that problem is to break down their sense of self with Buddhism. Which clearly isn't working since they aren't listening to her.
I...
*weeps*
I seriously wish they were nicer and I could call Byakuren the holy savior and pray her and stuff, but it's pretty much undebatable that they aren't really following the rules. It makes me sad. Oh so very sad.
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You can read it that way, but the symposium itself makes it pretty clear that the youkai at the temple are up to no good behind her back. That may only be pranks and alcohol, but if they're not upholding some of their Buddhist values why would the people of the village assume they'd hold any of them? And it's pretty much undisputed that youkai need to attack humans, whatever that means. Even Byakuren's solution to that problem is to break down their sense of self with Buddhism. Which clearly isn't working since they aren't listening to her.
Yeah, fine, whatever. I just wish people would interpret that more as "You can't solve all problems" instead of as "Byakuren is a latent hypocrite and therefore trash".
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Yeah, fine, whatever. I just wish people would interpret that more as "You can't solve all problems" instead of as "Byakuren is a latent hypocrite and therefore trash".
This. Thank you. I had lost all hope that I wasn't the only one that loved Byakuren.
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I...
*weeps*
I seriously wish they were nicer and I could call Byakuren the holy savior and pray her and stuff, but it's pretty much undebatable that they aren't really following the rules. It makes me sad. Oh so very sad.
I know that feel. I feel the same towards the Watatsukis.
Well, except that whole "holy savior" and "pray to her" part.
Yeah, fine, whatever. I just wish people would interpret that more as "You can't solve all problems" instead of as "Byakuren is a latent hypocrite and therefore trash".
I seriously don't think there are people out there who really think of her as the latter.
This. Thank you. I had lost all hope that I wasn't the only one that loved Byakuren.
I like Byakuren too, you know. One of my favorite Touhous. But I like her not as the faultless "youkai messiah", but as a good person with potentially questionable ideals.
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More like out-of-place ideals, like Kanako or Miko.
Kanako wants to bring Gensokyo to an industrial era, Byakuren wants to make everyone equal, Miko wants a government.
What are those values like? They're like those people have HERE. In the human world. Gensokyo is the opposite of here, so obviously everyone is pretty much calling them whack-jobs.
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I favor the idea that everyone is trying to do the right thing as best as they are able. However, that doesn't mean they'll succeed or even that their methods make any sense in the first place. Conflict between characters like the moon wars and the religion wars doesn't mean that one side or the other is wrong, just that they have different perspectives. I can sympathize with both Yukari and the Watatsukis, with Byakuren and Miko. None of them are bad people, they just have different values and beliefs that put them in conflict.
Except Tenshi. I hate Tenshi. :V
Also, I'm not sure they're really out of place. The discussion between Byakuren and Miko in SoPM basically mirrors the discussion between Kasen and Reimu in WaHH, which itself goes back to ideas brought up by Keine in BAiJR. The human-youkai conflict and whether peace is possible or desirable is one of the central themes of the series.
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Except Tenshi. I hate Tenshi. :V
Ooh, you're so on my shit list now. :V
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Ooh, you're so on my shit list now. :V
I love Tenshi too :V She's a bratty rich kid, but an awesome bratty rich kid.
Kinda how like Seiga is a total bitch, but that makes her likable.
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I love Tenshi too :V She's a bratty rich kid, but an awesome bratty rich kid.
Kinda how like Seiga is a total bitch, but that makes her likable.
You know, I never really view Tenshi as a rich kid, just an arrogant one.
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You know, I never really view Tenshi as a rich kid, just an arrogant one.
Not everyone gets into the Celestial heaven, so we figure Tenshi and co. are well to do in some way or another.
Funny thing is despite Yukari and Reimu bitching at them IIRC the rest of the Celestials that AREN'T Tenshi are actually pretty chill.
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You know, I never really view Tenshi as a rich kid, just an arrogant one.
I mean that Tenshi has food as much as she wants, a place to sleep, does nothing of her days, never gets scolded, etc... She always lived in the dream life of many of gensokyo's residents, making it quite close to the definition of rich kid here.
Funny thing is despite Yukari and Reimu bitching at them IIRC the rest of the Celestials that AREN'T Tenshi are actually pretty chill.
Yeah, celestials usually attain illumination, thus are pretty much nice people.
Tenshi got dragged by her parents, so she isn't an ''illuminated soul'' like the others.
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Not only did she not get into Heaven through discipline, her whole family didn't get in through discipline; they got in by being subservient to priests that later turned into divine spirits. On top of that, Chiko wasn't part of this servitude and simply came along with her family. So her family isn't in Heaven for any normal reason, and she's a rich kid of that family.
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Not only did she not get into Heaven through discipline, her whole family didn't get in through discipline; they got in by being subservient to priests that later turned into divine spirits. On top of that, Chiko wasn't part of this servitude and simply came along with her family. So her family isn't in Heaven for any normal reason, and she's a rich kid of that family.
Wow, I didn't know all that. Thanks!
But yeah, she's a genuinely arrogant, bratty, bored kid. And that makes her awesome IMO, in an out-of-real-life-context.
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I wonder if that monologue written in PMiSS applies to SoPM as well?
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I wonder if that monologue written in PMiSS applies to SoPM as well?
What monologue?
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Okay we all know Cirno isn't exactly the smartest fairy, but does she always have to be portrayed as completely dumb?
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Okay we all know Cirno isn't exactly the smartest fairy, but does she always have to be portrayed as completely dumb?
Yes, because memes.
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Okay we all know Cirno isn't exactly the smartest fairy, but does she always have to be portrayed as completely dumb?
You ought to read Genius Comes When You Least Expect It.
(http://i.imgur.com/8oZOb.jpg)
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You ought to read Genius Comes When You Least Expect It.
(http://i.imgur.com/8oZOb.jpg)
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Pi's exact value is 10.
...in base pi. /CirnoBrain
I personally like Cirno to be portrayed as dumb in the way of a child, rather than as a bona fide idiot. Even average-intellect-Cirno portrayals tend to seem a little forced.
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Even average-intellect-Cirno portrayals tend to seem a little forced.
(http://i.imgur.com/perlW.jpg)
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I personally like Cirno to be portrayed as dumb in the way of a child, rather than as a bona fide idiot. Even average-intellect-Cirno portrayals tend to seem a little forced.
Likewise. I've used Cirno in a number of stories, and that's the portrayal I tend to go with - childish, impulsive, maybe a bit selfish, but still naive and full of good cheer. She's a good kid.
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I personally like Cirno to be portrayed as dumb in the way of a child, rather than as a bona fide idiot. Even average-intellect-Cirno portrayals tend to seem a little forced.
(http://i.imgur.com/perlW.jpg)
LASER
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I like to see bumbly dumb Cirno. Well, not dumb as in plainly retarded, but very confident in her extremely child-like beliefs.
Best example to me; that tag team wrestling tournament, where she introduces Yuuka to Dayousei and expects them to be friend instantly despite their obvious dislike for each other. (Which Cirno is completely oblivious to) Genius Cirno hurts my brain, unless it's meant to be a joke.
Also things I want to see in fandom more:
- Tsundere Yuuka
- Moe Yuuka
- Lonely Yuuka
- Psychopathic Yuuka
- Sadistic Yandere Yuuka
- Kind, yet mysterious Yuuka
- Trolling Yuuka
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I like to see bumbly dumb Cirno. Well, not dumb as in plainly retarded, but very confident in her extremely child-like beliefs.
Best example to me; that tag team wrestling tournament, where she introduces Yuuka to Dayousei and expects them to be friend instantly despite their obvious dislike for each other. (Which Cirno is completely oblivious to) Genius Cirno hurts my brain, unless it's meant to be a joke.
Does Idiot-Savant Cirno count? :v:
Also things I want to see in fandom more:
- Tsundere Yuuka
- Moe Yuuka
- Lonely Yuuka
- Psychopathic Yuuka
- Sadistic Yandere Yuuka
- Kind, yet mysterious Yuuka
- Trolling Yuuka
I thought these were already her default settings. :getdown:
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I am the only one that keeps imagining meiling figthing like the DBZ character? qi blasts and faster-tham-eye punches.... :V i would be so happy if that happened on a fanfic or something...... :ohdear:
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Well, these are nice at least. I enjoy stuff like this much more than flashiness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3xC0lBOQGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoJLCEXDMaY
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Does Idiot-Savant Cirno count? :v:
I thought these were already her default settings. :getdown:
Idiot-Savant?
They are, hence why I named them all :V More Yuuka makes everything better.
EVERYTHING.
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Idiot-Savant?
Brilliant prodigy in some respects, total dutz in everything else.
Namely I was thinking of the running joke that she's bad at math except for anything involving multiples of 9. :V
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Brilliant prodigy in some respects, total dutz in everything else.
Namely I was thinking of the running joke that she's bad at math except for anything involving multiples of 9. :V
Oh, that!
Yeah, if it's well used, it can be hilarious. (Like Cirno pointing out something really dumb and obvious but oh, that was actually what the supposedly smart characters couldn't figure out)
Or the sudden intelligence-boost where she's a total genius and then goes back to ''Eye'm duh strongest! :V''
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I'd personally like to see more of Yuyuko being badass. I'm sure we all know that her air-head happy go lucky personality is an act... well, sort of. Not that I don't like her like that, because I do, but she really does need to be shown off in a more serious manner sometimes. I rarely see that, and it makes me a sad panda.
Speaking of seeing less of something in a character, I know Momiji doesn't really have a canon personality, but as much as I love seeing her adorable moe-miji persona, I prefer a more serious tengu warrior-like Momiji. After/During Symposium she was given more character, but, eh, that was 50 years ago (in the TH timeline).
I would think of more, and I probably will, but that's about it for now..
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I'd personally like to see more of Yuyuko being badass. I'm sure we all know that her air-head happy go lucky personality is an act... well, sort of. Not that I don't like her like that, because I do, but she really does need to be shown off in a more serious manner sometimes. I rarely see that, and it makes me a sad panda.
I really want to see a pissed off Yuyuko, like when she's really angry.
I have yet to see her that way :( It seems pretty rare.
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Well, being like that is her thing, it's what she does. She hasn't really had a reason to drop the act.
Only thing that'd give her a reason to do so would be if the Saigyou Ayakashi managed to work past the seal and become active again.
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I don't think Yuyuko has the capacity to get angry. I mean, you'd have to actively try to get her angry and Youmu and Yukari wouldn't allow that.
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"Lady Yuyuko, I'm sorry, but it seems all the dumplings are finished."
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"Well it looks like you'll just have to make some more, won't you?"
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Drake you are no fun.
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"'Ey Yuyuko, reckon I ferried over someone that looked like your Youmu. She kept bawlin' about you and someone in red pants...sorry t' tell you this."
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I don't think it's possible for Yuyuko to get angry simply because she's in complete control of her emotions. This is the person who, in SWR, realized that people's temperaments were being turned into weather and adjusted her temperament to make it snow. Because she was in the mood for snow. Or maybe she was lying about that, but either way it doesn't seem like anything she does isn't carefully planned. She acts air-headed because she wants, and for no other reason. Likewise, unless she wanted to get angry she wouldn't ever become angry, no matter what happens to her. And it's hard to imagine why she'd want to become angry.
Serious is a different matter though.
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I don't think it's possible for Yuyuko to get angry simply because she's in complete control of her emotions. This is the person who, in SWR, realized that people's temperaments were being turned into weather and adjusted her temperament to make it snow. Because she was in the mood for snow. Or maybe she was lying about that, but either way it doesn't seem like anything she does isn't carefully planned. She acts air-headed because she wants, and for no other reason. Likewise, unless she wanted to get angry she wouldn't ever become angry, no matter what happens to her. And it's hard to imagine why she'd want to become angry.
Serious is a different matter though.
Yeah, she pretty much pretends to be bumbly and airhead, but she's actually really smart, very close to Yukari. (who is a total genius)
An angry Yuyuko isn't that is really rare, she was kinda angry at Tenshi in SWR and at the heroine in PCB (for getting in her way), she just did it in a very ''Oh my, it looks like I'll have to show you a lesson, doesn't it~?'' I really want to see a Yuyuko that... I can only think of ''going bat-shit crazy'' angry. I have a knack for OOC bursts, at least when well done.
...And I honestly thought Yuyuko in SWR had snow because she was a ghost and ghosts are cold, and that she just thought ''Oh, hey, snow <3'' and dragged it around.
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Yeah, she pretty much pretends to be bumbly and airhead, but she's actually really smart, very close to Yukari. (who is a total genius)
Yeah, that's basically what I meant. As Clarste said, I meant serious and not necessarily angry. I guess everyone just kind of assumed I meant I want Yuyuko to be all "RAWR!", but I meant that I want to see her display her intelligence and cunning every now and again. She still has that airhead feel about her while being smart in canon, which I do still enjoy, but in fanon I swear all I see is an "I AM HUNGREH" Yuyuko. Or something like that...
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I believe she demonstrates that sort of persona in Gensoukyou Great Sports Day.
She comes across as all goofy-but-sharp most of the time, but it's not hard to see that it's just a ruse hiding her true nature as a rival to Yukari.
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Yeah, that's basically what I meant. As Clarste said, I meant serious and not necessarily angry. I guess everyone just kind of assumed I meant I want Yuyuko to be all "RAWR!", but I meant that I want to see her display her intelligence and cunning every now and again. She still has that airhead feel about her while being smart in canon, which I do still enjoy, but in fanon I swear all I see is an "I AM HUNGREH" Yuyuko. Or something like that...
Hah, the infamous hungry ghost meme xD
I personally like it, but only if it's used in a humorous thing. If everyone else is badass and Yuyuko is just like ''Durrr hungreh :V'' then it's pretty sad. Serious Yuyuko is epic though.
Speaking of which, I love mastermind Yukari. I seriously DAFUQ'ed at every single of Yukari's round in IaMP, until the Vs Suika fight where she reveals she's been stealing all the drinks to blame it on her and force her to reveal herself, using the trust others have in her to manipulate them. My jaw dropped. I was left in awe in front of Yukari's genius. Fandom needs to exploit this more.
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Regarding Yuyuko: would you give control over the netherworld (part of it? was never quite sure on that point) to an airhead if you were the yama? I think the only way anyone could seriously think of Yuyuko as a hungy ditz is if the only exposure to her they've had is early IN stages.
One of the reasons I so adore the routes in IaMP and SWR is that they explore some of the sides of the characters that don't often make it into the main games, like mastermind/protector Yukari or prescient Yuyuko or playful Remilia and soforth.
Oh yeah: I'd like to see more inexperienced youmu stuff. Was fun seeing Yukari mentoring her in the fighting games.
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Touhouvania II's omake has fun fun Youmu bullying time.
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Regarding Yuyuko: would you give control over the netherworld (part of it? was never quite sure on that point) to an airhead if you were the yama? I think the only way anyone could seriously think of Yuyuko as a hungy ditz is if the only exposure to her they've had is early IN stages.
One of the reasons I so adore the routes in IaMP and SWR is that they explore some of the sides of the characters that don't often make it into the main games, like mastermind/protector Yukari or prescient Yuyuko or playful Remilia and soforth.
Oh yeah: I'd like to see more inexperienced youmu stuff. Was fun seeing Yukari mentoring her in the fighting games.
Oh no, I didn't mean Yuyuko WAS a ditz; She just acts like it for the lulz. Besides, I'd never dare to doubt the Yama's judgment.
I also loved SWR's storylines; Remilia's was almost a ''Lazy detective / interrogator'' show, which was hilarious. I mean, my mind was blown for almost all of them.
My favorite, and the one I want to see more often? Pissed off Komachi in SWR made me squeak. And pissed off Yukari in SWR made me feel bad for Tenshi. For... hmm, about 2 seconds.
Touhouvania II's omake has fun fun Youmu bullying time.
I loved those omakes xD
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Please keep in mind that this topic is talking about anything, made-up or not, you like to see in fandom, not canon stuff you wish to see used more in fandom, so bizarre stuff like genderbending, characters acting completely OOC, Wild West Gensokyo, etc. are all fair play.
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Think everyone's aware of the purpose of the "stuff you wish to see in fandom more" thread.
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not canon stuff you wish to see used more in fandom
...Doesn't ''Stuff you wish to see in fandom more'' fits that perfectly anyway?
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Oh no, I didn't mean Yuyuko WAS a ditz; She just acts like it for the lulz.
Oh, I wasn't talking to you specifically, I was just saying that even without the evidence from IaMP and SWR and so forth the very fact she got promoted from dead human to ruler of the netherworld (or part of it, or whatever) shows she's probably smarter than she lets on.
Was using "you" in the general sense thar, as in "would any of you give control over the netherworld to an airhead if you were the yama". /SuperInterestingClarification
Touhouvania II's omake has fun fun Youmu bullying time.
I really must try touhouvania one of these days...
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Think everyone's aware of the purpose of the "stuff you wish to see in fandom more" thread.
Just that sometimes when I saw someone mention what s/he wants to see, someone would pop up and say stuff like it's probably not possible to see such a thing because of such and such, like when I mentioned wanting to see Yukari losing battles more, someone said she's hax or something like that, so it's, like, impossible for her to lose.
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I know that danmaku is hard to convey in 3D, but I'd like to see danmaku fights in fanon not be reduced to generic DBZ-looking crap. It's a disservice given how much eyecandy the patterns can be in the games.
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Cirno cosplaying as anyone else
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Cirno cosplaying as anyone else
What about...
anyone else cosplaying as Cirno!? :V
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anyone else cosplaying as Cirno!? :V
Pft, Cirno's got them all beat. She can cosplay as them cosplaying as her, and do a better job of it to boot. :D
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Cosplayception.
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Pft, Cirno's got them all beat. She can cosplay as them cosplaying as her, and do a better job of it to boot. :D
But only Mamizou can cosplay as Cirno cosplaying as them cosplaying as her. Becausetanuki.
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But only Mamizou can cosplay as Cirno cosplaying as them cosplaying as her. Becausetanuki.
I call hax on Mamizou. :(
And I still say Touhou needs an ungaikyo character. A character like that and Mamizou, between the two of them, could probably create and violate some kind of Law of Recursive Mimicry all in one instant. >_>
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I call hax on Mamizou. :(
We all do.
Creepy stickman danmaku. *shudders*
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Nurikabe as an early-stage boss or midboss?
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Also, would be interesting if Cirno and Okuu got together as acquaintances. Ice and sun, stupid and stupid...
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Also, would be interesting if Cirno and Okuu got together as acquaintances. Ice and sun, stupid and stupid...
Ice and Sun ??? The correct should be Ice (Cirno) and Fire(Mokou) , or Sun(Okuu) and Moon(Remilia (?) ) :P
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Well, I was implying that they are both kind of mentally impaired, and Cirno represents ice, and Okuu represents the sun, which emanates cold and heat, respectively. Then again, seeing two stupids mean fun.
Also, moon can be represented by Reisen, Kaguya, and Eirin. I don't know why, but just came up to me. :V
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Mo' like cold fusion amirite
ain't nobody made that joke b'fore
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Uh, I don't think "mentally impaired" applies to either Cirno or Okuu.
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Then who is? Yoshika? She has only half a brain, because she's kinda like a zombie. And a meat shield. :ohdear:
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As ZUN has said her brain is rotting away and thus "stupid", sure, I guess she could be considered "mentally impaired". All Cirno and Okuu are guilty of is being childish, petulant and impulsive.
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Yes, you may be right, but back to what I was saying, I rarely see Utsuho and Cirno together. Just imagine what would they do together :O
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Our own Kimiko Muffin has imagined exactly that (http://dizzy.pestermom.com/?p=thcomic98).
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Our own Kimiko Muffin has imagined exactly that (http://dizzy.pestermom.com/?p=thcomic98).
That was kinda unexpected. :D
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Attempted kissing looks hilariously awkward in create.swf.
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Uhm...to keep the obvious of what I want from flooding every inch of my post like a busted damn during the rainy season. I'll say the following;
- Compound Eyes and wings for Wriggle. Because they look pretty damn nice on her from one this one artist's perspective.
- Mommyzou: I've only seen a few pictures of this but, I find it adorable for Mamizou to be depicted as a sort of mother/grandma figure.
- Badass!Sara: Give her a reason why she's entrusted to be Makai's gate guard. Seriously.
- Troll!Luize: It's a weird thing, but every time I see that one mugshot of her in MS, I can't help but think that she's actually pretty darn heinous underneath it all. Speaking of which, what about her blue haired version from Stage 4?
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All Cirno and Okuu are guilty of is being childish, petulant and impulsive.
Utusho's also "empty" enough to qualify as a vessel for Yatagarasu though. That doesn't sound like garden variety childishness or impulsiveness to me. She's an airhead, a birdbrain.
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Utusho's also "empty" enough to qualify as a vessel for Yatagarasu though. That doesn't sound like garden variety childishness or impulsiveness to me. She's an airhead, a birdbrain.
Yeah, Okuu is pretty birdbrained. Except when it comes to Nuclear energy. Then she literally kicks anyone's asses.
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I'm not exactly sure if Yoshika being portrayed as "brain-dead" is that accurate. To my knowledge, Chinese zombies are smarter compared to Western zombies.
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I'm not exactly sure if Yoshika being portrayed as "brain-dead" is that accurate. To my knowledge, Chinese zombies are smarter compared to Western zombies.
Yeah, but as far as Touhou is concerned her physical brain wasn't preserved as well as the rest of her. So Yoshika is a bit LITERALLY braindead. :V
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But you also do not need a brain to be smart. That is just a human limitation.
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But you also do not need a brain to be smart. That is just a human limitation.
Only if you have a reasonable basis for assuming the character in question's brains don't work similarly to human ones. Yoshika is a zombie, not a deity or spirit.
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Couldn't you just right "Be Intelligent" on her ofuda?
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Couldn't you just write "Be Intelligent" on her ofuda?
That...would make sense.
Except she'd only do that, it would be her only task. So she'd spend her days reading and learning... only to forget everything shortly after. (rotten brain = bad memory)
And we all know Seiga doesn't want a meat-shield that can invoke the human rights to get a syndicate :V
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But you also do not need a brain to be smart. That is just a human limitation.
Pretty sure humans are not the only species which need a brain to be smart.
And Yoshika is canonically stupid. ZUN stated in an interview (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ten_Desires_special_and_two-part_interview_with_ZUN) that he purposefully gave her a rotting brain and made her stupid. Don't see much room for interpretation there.
Utusho's also "empty" enough to qualify as a vessel for Yatagarasu though. That doesn't sound like garden variety childishness or impulsiveness to me. She's an airhead, a birdbrain.
Not seeing anything in her profile indicating as such, and I think this is based on pure fanon. She became possessed, which gives no indication of intelligence either way.
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I think starx was just making a reference to Remilia's quote in EoSD, "humans are the only creatures that need a simple organ for cognition" (the current wiki translation is "Humans are the only ones who need simple chemical thought centers such as brains", but that isn't nearly as catchy).
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Not seeing anything in her profile indicating as such, and I think this is based on pure fanon. She became possessed, which gives no indication of intelligence either way.
The idea that she could only be possessed by the Yatagarasu by being empty headed comes from her Symposium of Post Mysticism (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yatagarasu) page:
"(Possessing a divine spirit) could be only done by one having no personality, as well as being unnamed, and without attachments, as well as having a great deal of tolerance that accepts everything. A lot of effort is also necessary. The easiest way would be to make your head completely hollow. "
As for the thread's topic...
I'd like to see kappa with turtle shells on their backs and plates on their heads, like they are described to have in PMISS.
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Personally I see Utsuho as being much less 'HERP DE DERP MAH SPOON IS TOO BIG' and more that she currently has so much rattling around in her brain that she comes off as being incredibly absentminded about things that don't relate to nuclear physics. She used to be a childish and relatively innocent bird who had lived in a Hell that wasn't being used anymore all her life, with no knowledge of pretty much anything outside of the former Hell of Blazing Fires, and then suddenly she turned into a master of one of the most powerful scientific forces in the universe literally overnight. She probably has to run through calculations and plans in the back of her head all the time to both ensure that she remains stable and that all the suns and reactions she creates also remain stable, not to mention how much she has to keep an eye on when she's analyzing the reactor on Youkai Mountain.
That said, I think the things I want to see tend to contradict what other people want to see. Medicine being the potentially sadistic and hate-filled poison monster that she comes off as. Utsuho being secretly very intelligent despite coming off as a complete dumbass most of the time. Alice acting slightly 'off', as one might expect from someone who acts through countless dolls that she controls and interacts with them as if they were actually other people, maybe even holding one-sided rambling conversations with herself. Patchouli as a semi-flippant, socially awkward, lounge-about nerd rather than a crippled degenerate. Sakuya using her time/space powers more often in daily life to get regular work done, yet somehow never having much free time that other people see.
...maybe I should get back to writing again. Might help this creative slump, though I probably couldn't do more than occasional shorts.
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And Yoshika is canonically stupid. ZUN stated in an interview (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ten_Desires_special_and_two-part_interview_with_ZUN) that he purposefully gave her a rotting brain and made her stupid. Don't see much room for interpretation there.
I'm now sure some fans will make some sort of crazy insane conspiracy on how Yoshika is Meiling's lost sister/mother/Meiling herself who died and that it explains the similarities.
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The idea that she could only be possessed by the Yatagarasu by being empty headed comes from her Symposium of Post Mysticism (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yatagarasu) page:
"(Possessing a divine spirit) could be only done by one having no personality, as well as being unnamed, and without attachments, as well as having a great deal of tolerance that accepts everything. A lot of effort is also necessary. The easiest way would be to make your head completely hollow. "
Kanako also briefly explains why she chose Utsuho to be the vessel in the symposium part:
"The simpler the holder's brain is, the better able they are to control the great power."
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Alright, I can concede the point on Utsuho, but I'd add that "simple" doesn't always mean stupid. I mean she's had a pretty simple life. Probably not real book smart and not a little bit sheltered, to be sure, but flat-out stupid, not so sure.
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Alright, I can concede the point on Utsuho, but I'd add that "simple" doesn't always mean stupid. I mean she's had a pretty simple life. Probably not real book smart and not a little bit sheltered, to be sure, but flat-out stupid, not so sure.
I don't think anyone here think Okuu is braindead and can barely remember to breathe; It's more like an ignorant child. She's not very smart, nor able to think about complicated stuff. In Hisoutensoku, Sanae barely says ''Hey, take me to your leader!'' and she's pretty much ''Ok :D''
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Children can think about complicated stuff. They may get it wrong, but that's just because they lack experience or knowledge. Utsuho seems to have trouble thinking in the first place. She's "particularly dull".
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Children can think about complicated stuff. They may get it wrong, but that's just because they lack experience or knowledge. Utsuho seems to have trouble thinking in the first place. She's "particularly dull".
Yeah, I guess it's a bit more than an ignorant child. I actually wrote ''dumb kid'' at first but I felt bad, so I changed it.
Okuu is just so adorable ;~;
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@brains: Yeah, I am not arguing against Yoshika being stupid. I am arguing against using rotten brains as a reason for Yoshika being stupid.
That said, the link does seem to imply that having a rotten brain may go hand to hand with being stupid. Or maybe he just meant to make her dumb and have a rotten brain and there is no correlation between the two.
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I know Yoshika isn't bright in canon. I'm just saying that it may not be an accurate portrayal of Chinese zombies in general.
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I know Yoshika isn't bright in canon. I'm just saying that it may not be an accurate portrayal of Chinese zombies in general.
Well, the basic joke is that even though she's a jiangshi, she has all the traits of a classic movie zombie. And she's often referred to as a zombie. Being "a jiangshi who's more like a zombie" is the basis of her character.
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Well, the basic joke is that even though she's a jiangshi, she has all the traits of a classic movie zombie. And she's often referred to as a zombie. Being "a jiangshi who's more like a zombie" is the basis of her character.
Yeah, the best proof being the iconic Jiang-Shi trait (Can't move arms nor legs) is negated by her doing stretching exercises, and the rotting of the skin being nullified by her taking care of it. Plus, the whole eat everything stuff... She's almost a regular clich? zombie.
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I'd like to see more derpy portrayals of the characters. Especially when they're hilarious, random, yet fitting crap. For example, making those funny faces you see on Sequelitis. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM)
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I'd like to see more derpy portrayals of the characters. Especially when they're hilarious, random, yet fitting crap. For example, making those funny faces you see on Sequelitis. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM)
There's this series of comic on Danbooru called Violence Yuukarin, which is basically a bunch of Touhou character acting with very fanon personality and making nightmare fuels face at every panel.
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Just that sometimes when I saw someone mention what s/he wants to see, someone would pop up and say stuff like it's probably not possible to see such a thing because of such and such, like when I mentioned wanting to see Yukari losing battles more, someone said she's hax or something like that, so it's, like, impossible for her to lose.
One of the reasons why it's hard to find a pleasant discussion in the Touhou fandom.
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Really, as much as I love love love Touhou, I think it's only sensible to question and call out people who are emotionally invested to the point of mental disturbance in a franchise made by a drunk Japanese man.
People really, really, REALLY could try to remember that little fact more often before they get angry. When they don't, they look ridiculous.
It's a game...Series...Thing. I wish the fandom would just take it easy keep things in perspective more often.
On the other hand, given the personalities involved (I was flabbergasted to find out that Jiroo---or was it Stripe Pattern?---is an associate of Gen Urobochi, what a wonderfully small and circlejerky world we live in) it's like trying to herd cats. Insane, weeaboo, half-drunk, loli-obsessed cats with severe ADHD and OCD problems.
:colonveeplusalpha:
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Hardly a phenomenon unique to the Touhou fandom. Right now, there are people raging at each other over how their preferred console is obviously superior to the other's, who would make a bargain by trading it in for a wet rock. Visit the same people a week later, and they'll be blowing their gaskets over how people who watch dubbed anime instead of subbed should be round up and shot.
Saying "it's just a franchise made by a drunk Japanese guy with an awesome hat, relax" is fine, but worth is subjective to begin with. There are people who would claim all of us are too invested in the thing by the very fact that we're discussing it right now.
Would be great if the fandom would take it easy all the time, but it's not in humanity's nature to do so.
TL;DR: it's probably not possible to see people taking it easy in fandom because people tend to feel strongly about things they enjoy, and thus are more likely to see conflicting views on such as a personal attack. (You see what I did there? I explained why that thing you want to see in fandom more- namely, everyone consistently bein' chill- is probably not possible because of such and such! Geddit? Like what game2011 was complaining about? ...Yeah.
)
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TL;DR: it's probably not possible to see people taking it easy in fandom because people tend to feel strongly about things they enjoy, and thus are more likely to see conflicting views on such as a personal attack.
Yeah, I'm also guilty of this, seeing that I can easily get provoked into a heated debate against people with differing views compared to mine.
I miss the days when I don't give a fuck over this whole "fandom" thing. I just enjoy the original material straight from the source.
But, it's hard to do that with Touhou since there's a saying that Touhou is more about the fandom than the original materials. It's not like Touhou is a thick novel that you can re-read over and over again like Lord of The Rings.
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That's the joy and misery of a huge fandom; Yes, we get extreme amount of incredible works, like doujins, games, fan animes, PV, awesome character backstory that are fanmade...
Aaaand extreme debate where people take it REALLY personal when others disagree with their fan-interpretation, almost like they made the character themselves. Or the opposite, people that get really pissed when someone likes a fan-interpretation that goes against a small bit of canon.
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That's the joy and misery of a huge fandom; Yes, we get extreme amount of incredible works, like doujins, games, fan animes, PV, awesome character backstory that are fanmade...
Aaaand extreme debate where people take it REALLY personal when others disagree with their fan-interpretation, almost like they made the character themselves. Or the opposite, people that get really pissed when someone likes a fan-interpretation that goes against a small bit of canon.
*twitch* Normally I don't get vengefully mad for things that other people do to other people when I know neither party personally, but the Danboorites really crossed a line in my book when they issued death threats---DEATH THREATS---to Littleshrimp.
I won't go so far as to call the Danboorites involved inhuman. Quite the opposite. They are very human---specifically, the WORST human traits, to paraphrase GLADOS.
Why no, I'm not totally also bitter that they translate porn ultra-rapidly and leave doujins with actual point and plot to languish in Untranslated Hell for months at a time, why do you ask? :V
Speaking of GLADOS (and getting this thread back on topic):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weBBs1Nbmx8
I'm okay with this Watatsuki.
(P.S. I am not a prude. I am so very NOT a prude. I just think that sometimes otaku just have stupid, terrible, horrible taste in all things sexual.)
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Danbooru is weiiird... They translate some of my favorite doujins really quickly though. I must be lucky :V
Also that video fits that moonbitch perfectly. Loved it.
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Also that video fits that moonbitch perfectly. Loved it.
Is there a "stuff you wish to see in the fandom less" thread? People calling the Watatsukis "moonbitches" is totally a pet peeve of mine.
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Is there a "stuff you wish to see in the fandom less" thread? People calling the Watatsukis "moonbitches" is totally a pet peeve of mine.
I was not aware it was at all widespread.
At any rate we are being mostly facetious here. :P
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I was not aware it was at all widespread.
At any rate we are being mostly facetious here. :P
It's quite common in certain places.
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A comic where Nitori goes on an assball hunting rampage after her stash disappears.
Blame that surveys thread.
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I'd like to see more of the Watatsukis not being the insufferable Mary Sues that they are. I mean, sorry, but their canon portrayal just doesn't go much further than that, maybe because they were only meant to make one appearance. I want to see them fleshed out more, with warts and faults and all.
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I'd like to see more of the Watatsukis not being the insufferable Mary Sues that they are. I mean, sorry, but their canon portrayal just doesn't go much further than that, maybe because they were only meant to make one appearance. I want to see them fleshed out more, with warts and faults and all.
I keep hearing about how they are Mary Sues, but what makes them Mary Sues anyway? Surely they can't be on the same level as Bella from Twilight or Ariana Black. *Shudders*
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By Mary Sues, he didn't mean the whole "perfect person who makes the plot boring" kind. He meant the "so overpowered it's frustrating to the audience kind". (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodModeSue) Theres also how they deliver the "humans sux lololol" message so heavy-handedly, when they themselves are pretty jerkish.
Did I get that right? ???
Also, more on-topic: more prismriver appearances. I know their popularity is relatively low, but I like them :p
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By Mary Sues, he didn't mean the whole "perfect person who makes the plot boring" kind. He meant the "so overpowered it's frustrating to the audience kind". (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodModeSue) Theres also how they deliver the "humans sux lololol" message so heavy-handedly, when they themselves are pretty jerkish.
Did I get that right? ???
More or less, yeah. They're shallow, one-dimensional, cackling villains, really. Not much more. And yet as emissaries from the Moon, there's so much potential there for fanworks to play with in terms of their backstories and everyday lives, yet it gets mostly ignored.
I guess basically what I'm saying is I'd love to see fanworks that fill in the blanks, as it were, and give these girls some depth, characters, and yes, flaws.
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They already have one major flaw, they're too damn arrogant(Admittedly, that's a Lunarian hat, but they're the most arrogant of the lot.). And as they say, 'Pride comes before a fall'.
All it takes is one spanner in the works, and everything comes tumbling down.
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I think all lunarians have this habit. Even Eirin is pretty much saying ''Trolololo you suuuuck :V Did I mention you suck? BECAUSE YOU DO!'' when you go through Route A. God I wanted to punch her.
Same thing goes for Sanae in MoF, who was pretty much a total bitch. ''Oh hey there! Wanna be converted to MY GODS? NO? YOU SUCK AND I AM GOD AND I WILL WIN BECAUSE I AM THE BEST, YAY KANAKO :V *battle starts*'' I am seriously glad she changed.
Speaking of the main subject, I'd like to see ruthless, tactical Alice a bit more. I mean, I LIKE cute, tsundere Alice, if done right, but sometime I'm pretty much just thinking ''Alice, stop being a moeblob and do something cool! Dx''
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I always saw Eirin as being more casual about it. A sort of "Yeah, I'm better than you, but that's just because I'm flat-out smarter. Nothing big about that."
Now the Himes? Those two are the ham-handed ones.
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I think all lunarians have this habit. Even Eirin is pretty much saying ''Trolololo you suuuuck :V Did I mention you suck? BECAUSE YOU DO!'' when you go through Route A. God I wanted to punch her.
Same thing goes for Sanae in MoF, who was pretty much a total bitch. ''Oh hey there! Wanna be converted to MY GODS? NO? YOU SUCK AND I AM GOD AND I WILL WIN BECAUSE I AM THE BEST, YAY KANAKO :V *battle starts*'' I am seriously glad she changed.
That is one stretch of a comparison, and incredibly broad. All Touhou bosses engage in smack-talking. It's not a Lunarian thing. The Watas are just in a whole other category, for reasons stated previously.
Also, Sanae? Surely you don't think she's a Lunarian.
Which reminds me: as I've said in another thread, while I'm not really a fan of Sanae, I think her personality has changed from MoF to Ten Desires, especially when it comes to her attitude about youkai. Specifically, she's gone from being a gung-ho maniac out to exterminate all youkai to being fairly shruggo about them. What happened in the interim? Did she just get used to them? Did she maybe become friends with someone who later revealed that they were - gasp! - a youkai, forcing her to question the motivations behind her prejudice? Or did she just mellow out as Gensokyo sank into her bones? I'd love to see that fleshed out more.
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Well yeah, I didn't mean Sanae is a lunarian.
And while most Touhou bosses pretty much insults you, it kinda fits them. I mean, Remilia is portrayed as a selfish bratty 500 years old vampire. Yuyuko is a good girl. Kanako is also acting all mighty and stuff, but she's doing it because she's meant to look superior, though it's mostly just an act. Utsuho wasn't that mean though. Byakuren made me feel bad for hitting her. Miko was kinda pretentious, but like Sanae, she's from the human world.
Eirin is smart. Like, very very smart. She's very powerful too, as her profile states she's stronger than Kaguya. But I think what made her more annoying to me is that we don't get the regular insults and pretentious boasting that all final bosses do in Stage 6; We get it in Stage 5, Stage 6 midboss and Stage 6 in route A. I get it Eirin, you're superior. Thank you for reminding me.
I kinda think they skipped a part between Touhou 10 and 11, even more in 12. I mean, she goes from fanatic miko in MoF to ''Teehee, food spellcards!'' in SA, and finally ''youkai hunting is fun!'' in UFO. I mean, what happened anyway?
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My guess? Sanae's just batty. I mean, let's face it, I'd be giggling like a loon over food spellcards too if I were in her place.
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More or less, yeah. They're shallow, one-dimensional, cackling villains, really. Not much more. And yet as emissaries from the Moon, there's so much potential there for fanworks to play with in terms of their backstories and everyday lives, yet it gets mostly ignored.
I guess basically what I'm saying is I'd love to see fanworks that fill in the blanks, as it were, and give these girls some depth, characters, and yes, flaws.
I've been working on something involving them. Mostly Yorihime, I can't see Toyohime outside that stuff you said. I'll post after I finish ironing out the details and umm...actually writing it :V
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My guess? Sanae's just batty. I mean, let's face it, I'd be giggling like a loon over food spellcards too if I were in her place.
I just laughed at how extreme the changes to her attacks were.
In MoF, we got forgotten rituals to summon the strength of her gods and create miracles! With star-shaped BS danmaku! That was epic.
In SA, we get RICE! And FRUITS! And THE ALPHABET! (Which instantly makes be think of soup)
So regarding the topic, I'd love to see Sanae's sudden obsession with food explained. (Maybe she got on a diet and went insane?)
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I'd love to see Sanae's sudden obsession with food explained.
The Aki sisters managed to luck out and beat her in a fair fight, and the surprise/shame of such an unexpected defeat traumatized her for the rest of her days. :V
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More or less, yeah. They're shallow, one-dimensional, cackling villains, really. Not much more. And yet as emissaries from the Moon, there's so much potential there for fanworks to play with in terms of their backstories and everyday lives, yet it gets mostly ignored.
I guess basically what I'm saying is I'd love to see fanworks that fill in the blanks, as it were, and give these girls some depth, characters, and yes, flaws.
Sadly, with opinions like that, we're not going to see any fanworks like that anytime soon.
By Mary Sues, he didn't mean the whole "perfect person who makes the plot boring" kind. He meant the "so overpowered it's frustrating to the audience kind". (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GodModeSue) Theres also how they deliver the "humans sux lololol" message so heavy-handedly, when they themselves are pretty jerkish.
Did I get that right? ???
Honestly, you can say the same with Yukari or Reimu if you bring their powers to their logical conclusions.
Anyway, it wasn't frustrating at all for me and most of the frustration I've seen comes from the fans of Marisa, Sakuya, or Remilia who just can't stand that their favorite characters had lost.
And on another not-quite-related topic about the "humans sux lololol" message, I also find that sentiment on some certain parts of the fandom, especially in places where the whole "Youkai eats humans" gets brought up.
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Sadly, with opinions like that, we're not going to see any fanworks like that anytime soon.
What's that supposed to mean?
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The Aki sisters managed to luck out and beat her in a fair fight, and the surprise/shame of such an unexpected defeat traumatized her for the rest of her days. :V
Kanako: Come on Sanae, come out of your room... You lost because we were low on faith and couldn't give you enough strength, it's not your fault!
Sanae: RICE! AND FRUITS! DELICIOUS DANMAKUUUU :V
Kanako: ...
Suwako: *crying* OUR POOR BABY! IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, KANAKO! YOU'RE AN HORRIBLE MOTHER!
Sanae: A B C D E F G, I LOVE FRUITS, THEY'RE SO JUICY~
Kanako: *hugs Suwako and cries as well*
...Oh wow this needs to happen.
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Kanako: Come on Sanae, come out of your room... You lost because we were low on faith and couldn't give you enough strength, it's not your fault!
Sanae: RICE! AND FRUITS! DELICIOUS DANMAKUUUU :V
Kanako: ...
Suwako: *crying* OUR POOR BABY! IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, KANAKO! YOU'RE AN HORRIBLE MOTHER!
Sanae: A B C D E F G, I LOVE FRUITS, THEY'RE SO JUICY~
Kanako: *hugs Suwako and cries as well*
...Oh wow this needs to happen.
Welp, I know what I'm doing for my next create.swf comic. :getdown:
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I've been working on something involving them. Mostly Yorihime, I can't see Toyohime outside that stuff you said. I'll post after I finish ironing out the details and umm...actually writing it :V
Why not Toyohime? I think you can bring out the kinder side of her with that Urashima tale. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Cage_in_Lunatic_Runagate/Third_Chapter)
What's that supposed to mean?
Nobody likes them = No one wants to make fanworks of them.
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Welp, I know what I'm doing for my next create.swf comic. :getdown:
If I don't get to see it, I'll be angreh :V
Another thing I'd like to see in the fandom is mastermind Koishi. The kind of Koi-Koi that makes you d'awwww... then you realize she's a total genius and she planned something that makes you go ''Wait whaaa?''
Kinda like Yukari in IaMP. That was AWESOME.
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I kinda think they skipped a part between Touhou 10 and 11, even more in 12. I mean, she goes from fanatic miko in MoF to ''Teehee, food spellcards!'' in SA, and finally ''youkai hunting is fun!'' in UFO. I mean, what happened anyway?
Moreover, what happened between UFO and Ten Desires? She goes from "exterminate the youkai!" to more like "oh hey check it out, a youkai". She's really changed a lot.
I could be wrong here, but wasn't she like, pretty young when she moved into Gensokyo? It's liable that, coming into "adulthood" in Gensokyo, she went through a fairly stressful period of adjustment but then eventually settled in. I'd love to see that whole process explored more.
Sadly, with opinions like that, we're not going to see any fanworks like that anytime soon.
Honestly, you can say the same with Yukari or Reimu if you bring their powers to their logical conclusions.
Anyway, it wasn't frustrating at all for me and most of the frustration I've seen comes from the fans of Marisa, Sakuya, or Remilia who just can't stand that their favorite characters had lost.
Nobody likes them = No one wants to make fanworks of them.
What's up with this petulant attitude? "If you're going to be like that, no one's going to write any fanworks"? "You're just mad that you lost"? Come on already. We're talking about fictional characters here. I'm saying the Watas have potential for great things in fanworks, in part because they're one-dimensional Mary Sues leaving a whole lot of room for fleshing out and development.
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Moreover, what happened between UFO and Ten Desires? She goes from "exterminate the youkai!" to more like "oh hey check it out, a youkai". She's really changed a lot.
Some think that perhaps she was merely enthused to be youkai hunting for the first time, not out of any hatred for Youkai, but just excitement at being involved in an incident.
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Some think that perhaps she was merely enthused to be youkai hunting for the first time, not out of any hatred for Youkai, but just excitement at being involved in an incident.
Yeah, that's the impression I got, too. But what I'm asking is, what happened after UFO and before Ten Desires to lead to this blas? attitude? Growing up? Growing bored? Secret friendship with a youkai causing emotional conflicts that call to mind Brokeback Mountain?
itisamystery.jpg
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Yeah, that's the impression I got, too. But what I'm asking is, what happened after UFO and before Ten Desires to lead to this blas? attitude? Growing up? Growing bored? Secret friendship with a youkai causing emotional conflicts that call to mind Brokeback Mountain?
itisamystery.jpg
Seeing as she spends most of her time at Youkai mountain, she probably got used to them after a while. It's hard to see youkai as particularly strange or interesting when you practically live with them.
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More or less, yeah. They're shallow, one-dimensional, cackling villains, really. Not much more. And yet as emissaries from the Moon, there's so much potential there for fanworks to play with in terms of their backstories and everyday lives, yet it gets mostly ignored.
I guess basically what I'm saying is I'd love to see fanworks that fill in the blanks, as it were, and give these girls some depth, characters, and yes, flaws.
I dunno, I thought Toyohime's attitude in her CiLR chapter was pretty interesting.
Also, their attitude makes more sense if you think of them as the heroes of the Lunar Invasion storyline. It's hard to see them as cackling villains when you realize that they're just trying to defend their home from people who are explicitly trying to kill everyone on it. Reimu ended up doing the classic villain "hold the city hostage" strategy when she was shooting impurity. Yorihime even has her own boss rush. Well, she ended up bombing through everything though.
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Seeing as she spends most of her time at Youkai mountain, she probably got used to them after a while. It's hard to see youkai as particularly strange or interesting when you practically live with them.
I mean, let's see it as Sanae's perspective.
So first, she's in our world. Youkais are pretty much old legends, monsters that are known to be fairy tales. She's also known as being a goddess (at least, to the humans) and her life is dedicated to her goddesses.
Suddenly, Gensokyo. Youkais are real, they're everywhere, welcome Sanae, this is the ''real'' world. She doesn't deal with it very well, her first reaction being ''Let's do what Kanako says'', hence the very pretentious attitude, in my opinion. In Touhou 12, she's a bit more ''Herself'' but she's told my Kanako/Suwako; ''Kill youkais, it's your duty!'' or ''find treasures!'' She follows said orders dutifully.
Finally, Touhou 13 where she's pretty much used to the whole ''Youkais are a majority, humans are a minority'' mindset (complete opposite of what she originally lived in), hence the ''I don't really care anymore'' attitude. She doesn't have any clear orders from Kanako/Suwako, so she just investigates it for the hell of it. (Like everyone else)
That's just my opinion though. I still can't explain the sudden love for food though :/
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I mean, let's see it as Sanae's perspective.
So first, she's in our world. Youkais are pretty much old legends, monsters that are known to be fairy tales. She's also known as being a goddess (at least, to the humans) and her life is dedicated to her goddesses.
Suddenly, Gensokyo. Youkais are real, they're everywhere, welcome Sanae, this is the ''real'' world. She doesn't deal with it very well, her first reaction being ''Let's do what Kanako says'', hence the very pretentious attitude, in my opinion. In Touhou 12, she's a bit more ''Herself'' but she's told my Kanako/Suwako; ''Kill youkais, it's your duty!'' or ''find treasures!'' She follows said orders dutifully.
Finally, Touhou 13 where she's pretty much used to the whole ''Youkais are a majority, humans are a minority'' mindset (complete opposite of what she originally lived in), hence the ''I don't really care anymore'' attitude. She doesn't have any clear orders from Kanako/Suwako, so she just investigates it for the hell of it. (Like everyone else)
That's just my opinion though. I still can't explain the sudden love for food though :/
That's sort of a more detailed version of what I was trying to say.
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Seeing as she spends most of her time at Youkai mountain, she probably got used to them after a while. It's hard to see youkai as particularly strange or interesting when you practically live with them.
That's certainly plausible, but never explained, hence my wanting to see it fleshed out more in fanworks.
OK, really, I just want to see a tear-choked Sanae yell "I wish I knew how to quit you!" at some youkai friend.
I dunno, I thought Toyohime's attitude in her CiLR chapter was pretty interesting.
Also, their attitude makes more sense if you think of them as the heroes of the Lunar Invasion storyline. It's hard to see them as cackling villains when you realize that they're just trying to defend their home from people who are explicitly trying to kill everyone on it. Reimu ended up doing the classic villain "hold the city hostage" strategy when she was shooting impurity. Yorihime even has her own boss rush. Well, she ended up bombing through everything though.
Well, who the aggressors are is kinda beside the point. My concern is more for seeing some actual depth of character, frailties, and more dimensions (a complaint I could make about other members of the cast as well, to be fair).
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My theory is that Sanae thinks she's in an anime and acts accordingly.
Technically, she wouldn't be wrong, either. :V
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My theory is that Sanae thinks she's in an anime and acts accordingly.
Technically, she wouldn't be wrong, either. :V
Really? Really?
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My theory is that Sanae thinks she's in an anime and acts accordingly.
Technically, she wouldn't be wrong, either. :V
No. If Touhou was an anime, maids would rule the moechain.
AND SANAE WOULDN'T BE THERE O____O
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Really? Really?
I never claimed it to be a sane or plausible theory, merely one that amused me. :V
And besides, look at how often she comments on the game interface and other fourth-wall elements.
She's not merely a traveller to TV land, she's a semi-random human who ACTUALLY CODED HERSELF INTO THE GAMES. :getdown:
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I never claimed it to be a sane or plausible theory, merely one that amused me.
No, you should "technically she wouldn't be wrong".
So again: really?
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No, you should "technically she wouldn't be wrong".
So again: really?
Okay, I meant more broadly that she thinks she's in a work of fiction with anime elements asdfnjrwgjnrewng I DON'T KNOW WHY DID YOU HAVE TO DISSECT MY JOKE MAAAAN
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Okay, I meant more broadly that she thinks she's in a work of fiction with anime elements asdfnjrwgjnrewng I DON'T KNOW WHY DID YOU HAVE TO DISSECT MY JOKE MAAAAN
Sanae is serious fuckin' buisness.
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Okay, I meant more broadly that she thinks she's in a work of fiction with anime elements
Here's where I just forget this ever happened.
Also, more fourth-wall breaking in fanworks would be great.
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Here's where I just forget this ever happened.
Also, more fourth-wall breaking in fanworks would be great.
Well she DOES have an interest in giant robots so if you absolutely must know where I'm coming from I'm joking that back in our world maybe Sanae was a closet geek. :V
ANYWAY MOVING ON. On the note of fourth wall-dom I'm waiting for a game where Yukari trolls everyone, including the audience. :getdown:
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Well, who the aggressors are is kinda beside the point. My concern is more for seeing some actual depth of character, frailties, and more dimensions (a complaint I could make about other members of the cast as well, to be fair).
Well, as I said CiLR makes Toyohime pretty interesting. She realizes that they're fighting a losing battle with impurity, and that even the Lunarians are doomed to die someday. Honestly, as one of the few characters who get their thoughts spelled out in narrative, she's actually one of the most developed characters. She just happens to be really strong.
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ANYWAY MOVING ON. On the note of fourth wall-dom I'm waiting for a game where Yukari trolls everyone, including the audience. :getdown:
Hey! The brain rape she did in IaMP was pretty much the most incredible trolling a game ever did to me.
I swear, after clearing all scenarios in a single day (personal challenge), I started to talk like Yukari.
Friend calling on the phone: So what are you doing?
Me: As the silver spoon is going through a river of gold, silly you, can't you see the ground is like a cloud?
Friend: ...What is wrong with you?
Me: I DON'T KNOW!
*actual real life moment*
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Honestly, as one of the few characters who get their thoughts spelled out in narrative, she's actually one of the most developed characters.
Whoah now, let's not go crazy here. That is indeed a reflective moment, though, and more of the same (and more) would certainly be welcome.
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Hey! The brain rape she did in IaMP was pretty much the most incredible trolling a game ever did to me.
You're going to have to splain that to me a little as I haven't done Yukari's route in IAMP.
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You're going to have to splain that to me a little as I haven't done Yukari's route in IAMP.
Ok, so Yukari is gaping a bit everywhere in Gensokyo. Every bits of scenario follows this template:
Character: Hey, Yukari.
Yukari: *really random and creepy greeting that makes no sense*
Character: What?
Yukari: GIMMEH ALL YOUR *random alcoholic drink*
Character: What no D:
Yukari: YES.
*battle starts*
*victory*
Yukari: *random nonsensical speech*
THEN, you reach Suika. Here's how it happens;
Yukari: Hey Suika. Guess who stole all of Gensokyo's beverages and promised them to bring it to tonight's party? Me.
Suika: Haha, you're crazy! They'll kill you!
Yukari: I don't think so. Your little game has bored me. This is enough for now. If you don't show yourself tonight, I'll tell everyone that a little oni named Suika stole all the drinks I had.
Suika: Y-you wouldn't dare! They won't believe you!
Yukari: Oh stop being stupid, who do you think they'll believe? Wise, old Yukari or random newcomer oni?
Suika: ...
Yukari: That's right. You're trapped.
Suika: I won't let you!
*battle*
*victory*
*sappy ending*
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lolYukari
So basically Yukari saved the day by beating up everyone she came across, stealing their beer, and then blackmailing a midget-loli oni with possibly all the beer in the land.
gensokyo.txt :getdown:
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So basically Yukari saved the day by beating up everyone she came across, stealing their beer, and then blackmailing a midget-loli oni with possibly all the beer in the land.
gensokyo.txt :getdown:
Creepy scene in between:
Yukari: *sees Yuyuko* DROP THE POISON MOTHERFUCKER (yeah out of nowhere)
Yuyuko: What?
Yukari: STOP LYING :V
Yuyuko: OMAIGAWD HOW YOU KNOW I WANTED TO KILL EVERYONE WITH POISON
Yukari: ARGH!
*fight start*
Me: Wtf c:
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HEY HOW ABOUT THAT STUFF WE WANT TO SEE IN FANDOM MORE HUH
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I would like for all future Touhou games to come with free ADHD medication. :V
More seriously? Uuuuuuh, more Iku being cool.
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More seriously? Uuuuuuh, more Iku being cool.
I'd settle with more Iku or Tenshi period. Seriously, they're two awesome characters yet they feel a bit left out. Ok, less than medecine, but still.
Speaking of which, moar medicine.
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There are a lot of things I would like to see in fandom more, but it's hard to say what, exactly. A lot of the things I wanted to see in fandom more, I actively wrote into my fanfiction because I wanted to see them more.
Oh! I have something I was talking with Matsy about. I'd like to see more backstories overall, but particularly Byakuren and Miko's. With Byakuren, specifically, I'd love to see just how, exactly, she managed to stay sane after what appears to be solitary confinement for a thousand years. Humans can't last for very long in isolation; that's why it's usually called psychological abuse and is even considered to be a human rights violation. I have my own theories as to how she managed to keep her mind intact, but I'd love to see other people take a crack at it.
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There are a lot of things I would like to see in fandom more, but it's hard to say what, exactly. A lot of the things I wanted to see in fandom more, I actively wrote into my fanfiction because I wanted to see them more.
Oh! I have something I was talking with Matsy about. I'd like to see more backstories overall, but particularly Byakuren and Miko's. With Byakuren, specifically, I'd love to see just how, exactly, she managed to stay sane after what appears to be solitary confinement for a thousand years. Humans can't last for very long in isolation; that's why it's usually called psychological abuse and is even considered to be a human rights violation. I have my own theories as to how she managed to keep her mind intact, but I'd love to see other people take a crack at it.
Her scroll is intelligent right? Couldn't she talk to it and/or whatever other living materials exist in Makai?
In a general sense though, I do like people telling stories about the past more than I like them telling stories about the present. Probably because they're more willing to change the status quo.
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I always thought she was in a form of suspended animation.
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She may or may not also have had Shinki to chat with.
Her scroll is intelligent right? Couldn't she talk to it and/or whatever other living materials exist in Makai?
I figure it's intelligent like a smart dog or a particularly optimized search engine, but I don't know if that means it has a will of its own or not.
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I always thought she was in a form of suspended animation.
Yea, I always thought she got turned into a rock.
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Meditative stance, perhaps?
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What's up with this petulant attitude? "If you're going to be like that, no one's going to write any fanworks"? "You're just mad that you lost"? Come on already. We're talking about fictional characters here. I'm saying the Watas have potential for great things in fanworks, in part because they're one-dimensional Mary Sues leaving a whole lot of room for fleshing out and development.
What the hell are you talking about? I'm just saying that with more people thinking of them as Mary Sues, there are less chances of them getting good fanworks.
Also, I think you're using the term "Mary Sues" incorrectly there. Being powerful doesn't automatically make you a Mary Sue.
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What the hell are you talking about? I'm just saying that with more people thinking of them as Mary Sues, there are less chances of them getting good fanworks.
Also, I think you're using the term "Mary Sues" incorrectly there. Being powerful doesn't automatically make you a Mary Sue.
What I'm talking about is this "Reimu/Yukari fans are just mad that they lost" jive. That's petulance.
And yes, they are Mary Sues, for the reasons I already said - they're one dimensional, have no real flaws or imperfections, and yeah, having things generally always go your way are hallmarks of being a Mary Sue. I'm not slamming them; I'm saying I would actually love to see them fleshed out more because they have great potential as characters.
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What I'm talking about is this "Reimu/Yukari fans are just mad that they lost" jive. That's petulance.
Fair enough, but that's what I've mostly seen from my travels around the fandom.
And yes, they are Mary Sues, for the reasons I already said - they're one dimensional,
A lot of other Touhous are also "one-dimensional", for whatever criteria you're applying to them.
have no real flaws or imperfections,
Guess being arrogant doesn't count, huh?
and yeah, having things generally always go your way are hallmarks of being a Mary Sue.
Except you know, the whole "Yuyuko sneaks in to steal their sake" bit.
By that definition, Yukari can also be called a Mary Sue. People often portray her as the Touhou version of Kira. "Just as planned" and all that. Even when she loses, it's all according to her plan.
Reminds me of the interpretation of her losing in the First Lunar War was actually a part of her plan in order to pacify the youkai.
I'm not slamming them; I'm saying I would actually love to see them fleshed out more because they have great potential as characters.
I agree with this.
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A lot of other Touhous are also "one-dimensional", for whatever criteria you're applying to them.
That sole dimension isn't usually "effortlessly partywipes the heroines", though.
Guess being arrogant doesn't count, huh?
It would if they actually got retaliation for it.
Except you know, the whole "Yuyuko sneaks in to steal their sake" bit.
Yuyuko wasn't Reimu or Yukari though. People were betting on Reimu and Yukari.
By that definition, Yukari can also be called a Mary Sue. People often portray her as the Touhou version of Kira. "Just as planned" and all that. Even when she loses, it's all according to her plan.
I figure even if she DOES actually certifiably lose something she considers it a writeoff anyway. :V
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That sole dimension isn't usually "effortlessly partywipes the heroines", though.
And why is that any worse than, let's say, Rumia's "dumb man-eater" angle for example?
It would if they actually got retaliation for it.
And they did, by getting their sake stolen.
Or are you still not satisfied by that?
Yuyuko wasn't Reimu or Yukari though. People were betting on Reimu and Yukari.
And this is the "Reimu/Yukari fans are just mad that they lost" part that I was talking about.
I figure even if she DOES actually certifiably lose something she considers it a writeoff anyway. :V
Point?
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And why is that any worse than, let's say, Rumia's "dumb man-eater" angle for example?
Rumia is a comparatively minor, largely plot-irrelevant character whose dimension is played for comedy as opposed to intrigue or drama.
And they did, by getting their sake stolen.
Not quite what I'd call a fair trade unless the sisters are that easily trolled.
Point?
No real point, just saying that Yukari doesn't seem like the type to give a crap either way. :V
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1. Guess being arrogant doesn't count, huh?
2. By that definition, Yukari can also be called a Mary Sue. People often portray her as the Touhou version of Kira. "Just as planned" and all that. Even when she loses, it's all according to her plan.
1. Nope, it doesn't, because they're portrayed as being justified in that arrogance.
2. Not really. She didn't want the shrine to get destroyed, yet it did. She's had to run damage control on multiple occasions. She's also portrayed as having several flaws, and is actually disliked by the majority of the cast. There is a difference between fans portraying a character as flawless (in which case they may well qualify as a mary sue... in that particular fan work) and a canonical portayal as such.
1. And why is that any worse than, let's say, Rumia's "dumb man-eater" angle for example?
2. And they did, by getting their sake stolen. Or are you still not satisfied by that?
1. What RRR said, plus the fact that "dumb man-eater" doesn't make a character come off as badass, perfect, superior or what have you.
2. You get, what, one panel of the duo looking constipated as the big payoff for having to deal with lectures on how lunarians are da bomb and the earth is a cess pool, a physical demonstration on how one of them can beat up experienced professionals in an activity they've never tried before without difficulty (and one after the other, no less), and how the other can apparently destroy gensokyo with a wave of a fan. I gotta say, it's not a particularly satisfying ending to the manga.
The written version on the other hand is very satisfying, but then that's more against Eirin.
The whole "most of the people who call them mary sue's are probably ReMariSakuYukaRei fanboys" point is interesting. I don't dispute that there's probably many cases where it's accurate.
On the flipside, most of the time I see people defending the two, I get the distinct feeling they're doing so because they dislike the rocket crew or Yukari, probably because they feel said characters get too much attention that would be better given to their favoured indie characters.
I admit, I like Yukari, and Remilia, and Reimu, Sakuya and Marisa. But my favourite games they appear in are the fighting games, where each one regularly gets trounced, and this doesn't make it any less enjoyable.
Much of the time, the winner even acts a bit smug, but its fine, because they get their own turn to taste dirt. The Watatsuki's just dial that superiority complex up to eleven, without any return except one of their (presumably many) valuable possessions getting stolen, and even that is barely shown. The cast doesn't even react much to this, like it's entierly natural, and it comes off as if the author is going "hey look even dese guys reckon the Watatsuki's are the best, mebbe you should too!".
The whole manga just came off as if it were a bad fanfiction with the Watatsuki's being OCs.
I personally just can't stand when characters act smug or superior and never get pulled down a peg, or when they do, it's brushed aside or done offscreen. If Reimu canonically solved every incident first try through curbstomping all opposition, I'd place her on the same low tier as the Watatsuki. Eirin, due to the fact she essentially wins in IN even when you beat her (IIRC), and thus seems justified in her smugness (further exacerbated by how even the good route only ruins her plans due to Reisen, not any flaw of her own), was one of the very few characters I disliked rather than simply felt indifferent to, but the short description where she tries the moon booze was enough to elevate her to a likable character again. Show me a sequel where the lunarians lose confidence in the two due to letting their booze get stolen and them dealing with the fallout (neatly providing an opportunity to flesh out their characters, hurrah) and I'll stop treating them as mary sues.
Also, more CoLA style stories would be awesome, if they're done to the same standard as the original.
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1. Nope, it doesn't, because they're portrayed as being justified in that arrogance.
Ooh, so you think they're justified for being arrogant, eh? Give me proof that ZUN supports their attitude. Really, I want to know.
2. Not really. She didn't want the shrine to get destroyed, yet it did.
You're talking about SWR?
She's had to run damage control on multiple occasions.
Damages that she'd made?
She's also portrayed as having several flaws, and is actually disliked by the majority of the cast.
The flaw being arrogance, just like the Watatsukis.
There is a difference between fans portraying a character as flawless (in which case they may well qualify as a mary sue... in that particular fan work) and a canonical portayal as such.
Indeed.
1. What RRR said, plus the fact that "dumb man-eater" doesn't make a character come off as badass, perfect, superior or what have you.
It still makes him/her one-dimensional though.
2. You get, what, one panel of the duo looking constipated as the big payoff for having to deal with lectures on how lunarians are da bomb and the earth is a cess pool, a physical demonstration on how one of them can beat up experienced professionals in an activity they've never tried before without difficulty (and one after the other, no less), and how the other can apparently destroy gensokyo with a wave of a fan. I gotta say, it's not a particularly satisfying ending to the manga.
The written version on the other hand is very satisfying, but then that's more against Eirin.
I've always viewed SSiB and CiLR as one unified story (albeit told through different POVs) so the ending was already satisfying to me.
I admit, I like Yukari, and Remilia, and Reimu, Sakuya and Marisa. But my favourite games they appear in are the fighting games, where each one regularly gets trounced, and this doesn't make it any less enjoyable.
I think that's because they're fighting games, not comics. Of course everyone has their "defeated" animations.
Much of the time, the winner even acts a bit smug, but its fine, because they get their own turn to taste dirt. The Watatsuki's just dial that superiority complex up to eleven, without any return except one of their (presumably many) valuable possessions getting stolen, and even that is barely shown. The cast doesn't even react much to this, as if it's entierly natural, as if the author is going "hey look even dese guys reckon the Watatsuki's are the best, mebbe you should too!".
The whole manga just came off as if it were a bad fanfiction with the Watatsuki's being OCs.
Because they're taking it easy, unlike the fandom.
The whole "most of the people who call them mary sue's are probably ReMariSakuYukaRei fanboys" point is interesting. I don't dispute that there's probably many cases where it's accurate.
But on the flipside, most of the time I see people defending the two, I get the distinct feeling they're doing so because they dislike the rocket crew or Yukari, probably because they feel said characters get too much attention that would be better given to their favoured indie characters.
Welp, you got me there. I'm not a big fan of the SDM or Yukari.
I personally just can't stand when characters act smug or superior and never get pulled down a peg, or when they do, it's brushed aside or done offscreen.
So, could you stand Yukari then?
If Reimu canonically solved every incident first try through curbstomping all opposition, I'd place her on the same low tier as the Watatsuki.
Only on Easy mode.
Eirin, due to the fact she essentially wins in IN even when you beat her (IIRC), and thus seems justified in her smugness (further exacerbated by how even the good route only ruins her plans due to Reisen, not any flaw of her own), was one of the very few characters I disliked rather than simply felt indifferent to, but the short description where she tries the moon booze was enough to elevate her to a likable character again.
Well, that scene only makes me dislike Yukari even more.
Show me a sequel where the lunarians lose confidence in the two due to letting their booze get stolen and them dealing with the fallout (neatly providing an opportunity to flesh out their characters, hurrah) and I'll stop treating them as mary sues.
You'll have to ask ZUN for that.
Also, more CoLA style stories would be awesome, if they're done to the same standard as the original.
I agree.
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Hey, lightdreamer? It would be oh so nice if you would stop derailing this thread by whiteknighting for the Watas. At least haeros et al ended by staying on topic.
TARC threads in general have been derailing way too much lately, so it'd be awesome if everyone could show OPs a bit more respect and stay on point. Thanks.
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Hey, lightdreamer? It would be oh so nice if you would stop derailing this thread by whiteknighting for the Watas. At least haeros et al ended by staying on topic.
TARC threads in general have been derailing way too much lately, so it'd be awesome if everyone could show OPs a bit more respect and stay on point. Thanks.
Sure.
Just make sure that no one calls the Watatsukis "Mary Sues" anymore (that includes you, especially since you're the one who started doing that here) and I'll be content.
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Sure.
Just make sure that no one calls the Watatsukis "Mary Sues" anymore (that includes you, especially since you're the one who started doing that here) and I'll be content.
We're pretty much all entitled to our own opinions. Seriously who cares if they're Mary Sue or not? The whole point is not to argue about it relentlessly like he insulted you directly.
Edit: In topic, I'd like to see more mind-reading troll Satori / disturbed Satori by what she sees.
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Uh, no, lightdreamer. There's no negotiating derails and character opinions. People are going to say whatever they please about these fictional characters. That's they're right, just as it's yours to disagree, but both sides need to stay on topic. If that's a problem for you, you can always to choose to not reply, but that's how it is.
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I think I'd like to see more Baddass Adorable Chen, I read that one Doujin where Ran and Yukari reverted to child form and Chen had to defend them. It still ranks as one of my favourites.
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I think I'd like to see more Baddass Adorable Chen, I read that one Doujin where Ran and Yukari reverted to child form and Chen had to defend them. It still ranks as one of my favourites.
Is it the one where she fights wolves (demon wolves I think) and uses Blue oni Red oni to fend them off, and it's all super awesome? (Sorry, that's the best way I can describe it)
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Is it the one where she fights wolves (demon wolves I think) and uses Blue oni Red oni to fend them off, and it's all super awesome? (Sorry, that's the best way I can describe it)
That's the one, after some searching my files I found it again Morino Hon's Yakumo-ke, it is indeed super awesome and we need more of it.
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I think I'd like to see more Baddass Adorable Chen, I read that one Doujin where Ran and Yukari reverted to child form and Chen had to defend them. It still ranks as one of my favourites.
Babality in touhou? :V
Sauce plz
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That's the one, after some searching my files I found it again Morino Hon's Yakumo-ke, it is indeed super awesome and we need more of it.
I loved that Doujin! I always wished that kind of Chen would appear more... I mean, cute helpless moe cat Chen is adorable but badass angry Chen defending her family is just... Epic.
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Babality in touhou? :V
Sauce plz
http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Morino_Hon (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Morino_Hon) This is the Touhou Wiki's link to that Doujin.
I loved that Doujin! I always wished that kind of Chen would appear more... I mean, cute helpless moe cat Chen is adorable but badass angry Chen defending her family is just... Epic.
I could not agree with this more, I have actually found another Doujin that portrays those aspects and it makes me sigh.
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Personally I'd like to see some delinquent Chen. I'm not sure why it's become standard to think of her as adorable and helpless when her character design and role kind of imply that she's a rebellious stray who doesn't like following orders. She's the rascally kid her doesn't listen to her "parents", or when she does she follows the letter but not the spirit. She's the stray cat who comes back to the house just to eat your food and then disappears again. Well, that's just the image of her I have in my head after playing the games and reading the stuff, so I'd like to see that pop up in the fandom every so often.
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Personally I'd like to see some delinquent Chen. I'm not sure why it's become standard to think of her as adorable and helpless when her character design and role kind of imply that she's a rebellious stray who doesn't like following orders. She's the rascally kid her doesn't listen to her "parents", or when she does she follows the letter but not the spirit. She's the stray cat who comes back to the house just to eat your food and then disappears again. Well, that's just the image of her I have in my head after playing the games and reading the stuff, so I'd like to see that pop up in the fandom every so often.
This would be very interesting too. I agree that Chen's personality is very... changing in PCB. Stage 2, we get a stray cat, rebellious and pretty much reckless and confident. Later, in the extra stage, we get a cat willing to defend both her Ran-shama and her pride, obviously stronger due to following Ran's order. In my opinion, Chen IS rebellious, but since it seriously weakens her, she probably doesn't act like it much.
I'd love to see more people pointing out how the Yakumo family is, other than Yukari's laziness, Ran's motherly side and Chen's moe. Sure, I really like those views too, but a good old badass Yakumo family wouldn't be bad either- And I don't mean just one member!
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Stuff I'd like to see more often in fandom?
Well, less m?mes, obviously. And less stupid nicknames for characters. I'm tired of seeing Cirno being constantly called "nineball", or utsuho "unyuuball", or Meiling "who-the-heck-is-that-girl" or Mima "she'll-be-in-the-next-one".
And also, I'd like to see more complicated plots. Quite often, in doujins, I feel like there's an unspoken "let the characters like you found them" rule. In other words, no matter what happens in the doujin, everything has to be back to normal at the end. And that annoys me, because if there's no change, then what's the point in reading the whole thing to begin with?
I am aware that a good artist is probably not a good writer (given how ZUN handed the Watatsukis' huge curbstomp battle of Touhou's main characters -and that's considering that ZUN is a good artist, but I'm derailing), but sometimes, I'd like something else than "Reimu go to the supermarket. Reimu buys an apple. OH NO, REIMU HAS NO MONEY! Reimu flees with the apple. Stuff happens. Reimu doesn't get the apple. The end." I'm also aware that most touhous are allergic to original characters, but when I read the doujin Re-Take, I usually think "damn that's hot!" and then I start thinking "why don't we have something that good? Is it because touhou isn't as LOL DEEP as Evangelion? Why does the chicken cross the road? Why so much hate toward the Watatsukis?" and then I stop thinking and I go play Fallout and punch supermutants in the face, but that's another story and that doesn't interest you.
My point is that, in touhou fanworks, I sometimes would like to read something else than childish doujins. I'm not saying I want some kind of David Lynch/Touhou cross-over (actually, that sounds awesome), but sometimes, I'd like to read something that doesn't feel like it's been written on toilet paper while the artist was taking a crap.
And also, I'd like to have more moonboobs, because they're great.
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This is why I really like backstory Doujins because you knwo what the situation is supposed to end up like and it's the journey their that is interesting.
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Personally I'd like to see some delinquent Chen.
This, dear god this. Chen has the potential to have loads of varied and interesting characteristics, just like any other character, but the only things I ever see are cute, sweet, wants to be given responsibility. There's nothing wrong with those, but it'd nice to see something, anything else for a change.
And on a related note, depictions of Ran not being completely obsessed about Chen would be seriously welcome too.
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David Lynch/Touhou cross-over
Someone do this. Get going.
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Someone do this. Get going.
If I were thinking which Lynch film would translate best into Touhou, I would have to say Lost Highway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Highway_%28film%29). In a nutshell: the MC is a middle-aged man who may or may not have killed his wife, who physically transforms into a much younger man while in jail, and engages with his older self in a parallel, but connected, universe. It's a film about aging and time.
With that in mind, I imagine Eirin as the MC. Only she is found and arrested by Lunarians, and her age seems to reverse drastically in custody. But what has actually happened is she separated into a parallel world, leaving behind a younger version unaware of how it got there. Through the story, the older Eirin communicates with her, engineering her escape. The younger one, upon getting freedom, is sought by the older one as a "connection point" back into the her original universe, which will mean the end of the younger one. But the younger wants to remain a conscious entity, and tries to escape. The outcome is never fully revealed or implied.
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Stuff I'd like to see more often in fandom?
Well, less m?mes, obviously. And less stupid nicknames for characters. I'm tired of seeing Cirno being constantly called "nineball", or utsuho "unyuuball", or Meiling "who-the-heck-is-that-girl" or Mima "she'll-be-in-the-next-one".
Yeah, like "moonbitches" for example.
And also, I'd like to see more complicated plots. Quite often, in doujins, I feel like there's an unspoken "let the characters like you found them" rule. In other words, no matter what happens in the doujin, everything has to be back to normal at the end. And that annoys me, because if there's no change, then what's the point in reading the whole thing to begin with?
Could you further elucidate on that please? I think that "status quo is god" rule only applies in slice-of-life doujins.
To make this post more on-topic, I'd like to see more good danmaku fangames like CtC.
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Yeah, like "moonbitches" for example.
Each time I see that word, I want to create a machine that'll allow me to punch people over the Internet.
Could you further elucidate on that please? I think that "status quo is god" rule only applies in slice-of-life doujins.
Well, save for Imizu's comics, where there's some kind of continuity between them (same thing happens in Nounai Kanojo's works, but that's something else), in most works, what happens in a doujin is never mentioned again, as if it never existed to begin with.
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Like it or not though you two, folks are gonna call the girls what they want to. Can't stop 'em from doing that. Freedom of speech and all that.
Hell, some folks who are fans of Cirno use the term 'Nineball' in an endearing and affectionate manner. (Ex; "Now that's the nineball we know and love.")
And on the note of the Himes/Watas, they just don't come across as likable sometimes. Bottom line.
Not because they beat the others easily, no, but simply because of how smug and arrogant they are about it.
It's a Lunarian hat, yes, that's understandable enough as it is, but they're generally regarded as having been hit especially hard with that stick.
(Even a tolerant and accepting fella like me finds them irksome to a point.)
And on a more on-topic note, there needs to be more fangames that star Rumia as the main character.
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Like it or not though you two, folks are gonna call the girls what they want to. Can't stop 'em from doing that. Freedom of speech and all that.
Hell, some folks who are fans of Cirno use the term 'Nineball' in an endearing and affectionate manner. (Ex; "Now that's the nineball we know and love.")
I am so going to interpret that as "you're allowed to create stupid nicknames for everyone". All hail Cirno, aka Mini-Bunker.
That asides, I'd also like to play more western fangames. I hate having to switch my computer to japanese to play a fangame.
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Yeah, like "moonbitches" for example.
You seriously need to drop this.
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Yeah, lightdreamer. I actually sorta like the sisters (mainly for their designs) and want there to be more info about them but you're taking this a bit personally.
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I really tink I could like those two if I saw some "Slice of Life" sfuff from the moon, they could have a really good dynamic. Even a Doujin would do.
I'd also like to see more stuff with Komachi and Eiki.
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I really tink I could like those two if I saw some "Slice of Life" sfuff from the moon, they could have a really good dynamic. Even a Doujin would do.
This.
BisonYes.png
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I really tink I could like those two if I saw some "Slice of Life" sfuff from the moon, they could have a really good dynamic. Even a Doujin would do.
have you ever heard of "inaba of the moon and inaba of the earth"?
Stuff I'd like to see more often in fandom?In other words, no matter what happens in the doujin, everything has to be back to normal at the end. And that annoys me, because if there's no change, then what's the point in reading the whole thing to begin with?
...So you're saying that you read stories just for the ending?
I am aware that a good artist is probably not a good writer (given how ZUN handed the Watatsukis' huge curbstomp battle of Touhou's main characters -and that's considering that ZUN is a good artist, but I'm derailing)
1) ZUN didn't draw SSiB
2) Wakatsuki's curbstomp is done on purpose in order to have the plot move around things that aren't resolved simply by beating each other up. ZUN's written a gorgeous amount on the Moon setting and Lunarians being stupidly powerful extend way beyond letting new characters beat up your favorites. On top of that, the rocket group were the bad guys. Reimu holding purity hostage was a good enough attempt to turn the tides while keeping the power balance. Not sure how you can be all "I hate it when people call them moonbitches" and then say them being overpowered and smug was handled badly. That's precisely the reason people call them moonbitches to begin with.
My point is that, in touhou fanworks, I sometimes would like to read something else than childish doujins. I'm not saying I want some kind of David Lynch/Touhou cross-over (actually, that sounds awesome), but sometimes, I'd like to read something that doesn't feel like it's been written on toilet paper while the artist was taking a crap.
I'd like to point out that there are a plethora of touhou doujins that most of you don't even know exist, simply because they aren't y'know scanned and translated. As in, most Touhou doujins are not ever going to make it outside Japan. Touhou gets a really decent amount of serious doujin works, but if you don't know the author in advance and buy it from a doujin shop or an event or something you're basically out of luck. Even then you need a translator unless you can read japanese.
That asides, I'd also like to play more western fangames. I hate having to switch my computer to japanese to play a fangame.
Could use AppLocale if you aren't willing to just leave your computer on japanese locale.
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I'd also like to see more stuff with Komachi and Eiki.
So would I. It seems Eiki isn't that popular, despite being completely made of awesome.
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You mean stone?
:P
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RoboCop Eiki plz.
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I've only heard of "Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth" in passing so I'll have to read it now.
So would I. It seems Eiki isn't that popular, despite being completely made of awesome.
It is a shame, there is some good stuff out there but it's so rare and hard to find.
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I've only heard of "Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth" in passing so I'll have to read it now.
(http://i.imgur.com/XHYOEl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/XHYOE.jpg)
It is a shame, there is some good stuff out there but it's so rare and hard to find.
I hate to be that guy, but if you've only heard of IotM,IotE "in passing", I don't think you're looking hard enough for decent doujins.
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...
A bugnuts crazy moon princess is fine too.
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(http://i.imgur.com/XHYOEl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/XHYOE.jpg)
I hate to be that guy, but if you've only heard of IotM,IotE "in passing", I don't think you're looking hard enough for decent doujins.
I can't argue with that, I'm still in my first two months of knowing this series actually existed and I'm still learning. The Touho Wiki and Danbooru are my sources. Anywhere else you could recomend?
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Without knowing Japanese (I don't), there's a number of sites you can tap, which crop up from Googling "touhou doujins scanlated", e.g., Voile at gensokyo.org, Danbooru, touhou-project.com and so forth. If you can deal with the crowd, Pooshlmer and even 4chan's /jp/ will also have decent doujin threads now and then.
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I can't argue with that, I'm still in my first two months of knowing this series actually existed and I'm still learning. The Touho Wiki and Danbooru are my sources. Anywhere else you could recomend?
Maybe I'm just crazy, but I'd recommend becoming familiar with the canon side materials first. If you haven't read it already, Cage in Lunatic Runagate is a nice source of all moon-related matters. If you're familiar with the Watatsuki sisters than you've probably read SSiB, but that's really only half the story, or less. And way too many people haven't read Symposium of Post-Mysticism. Although the Watatsukis are only mentioned in the included interview with ZUN.
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Moon-related or not, yeah, starting with the Touhou Wiki and reading up on official sources is a good idea. ZUN's Touhou wiki article has plenty of resources.
As I think of it, I would like to see more fanworks that riff off of things ZUN wrote in official sources. Like, I dunno, "previously unreleased excerpts" from the interviews Aya conducted, showing quotes were completely taken out of context, or the interviewee went off at length about so-and-so because they foolishly thought this part was off the record, and so on.
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have you ever heard of "inaba of the moon and inaba of the earth"?
Inaba is about the Eientei, not about the Lunar Capital.
...So you're saying that you read stories just for the ending?
I'm reading them for the plot. If there's no plot, then there's no point in reading it, save for the art, and fanworks aren't usually that great, artistically speaking (save for nitro unknown, that guy/gal/group rocks, I'm frequently masturbating to his doujin, even through they aren't translated).
1) ZUN didn't draw SSiB
2) Wakatsuki's curbstomp is done on purpose in order to have the plot move around things that aren't resolved simply by beating each other up. ZUN's written a gorgeous amount on the Moon setting and Lunarians being stupidly powerful extend way beyond letting new characters beat up your favorites. On top of that, the rocket group were the bad guys. Reimu holding purity hostage was a good enough attempt to turn the tides while keeping the power balance. Not sure how you can be all "I hate it when people call them moonbitches" and then say them being overpowered and smug was handled badly. That's precisely the reason people call them moonbitches to begin with.
1) ZUN wrote SSiB. Aki Eda just draw it. If anything is to blame for the manga, it's Jun.
2) It's still extremely clumsy coming from ZUN, as it's basically new characters recently introduced versus the Eldest One. I know there was probably no other way to write that story, but a new character curbsstomping everyone in sight was not a good move coming from ZUN. I dunno, personally, I felt like it was more like "those new characters just kicked your favourites' character bottom up to Oblivion, art thou mad?" rather than "the lunarians are just insanely powerful and your touhous are just youkais and magicians, they can't do much against gods that existed before mankind".
I'd like to point out that there are a plethora of touhou doujins that most of you don't even know exist, simply because they aren't y'know scanned and translated. As in, most Touhou doujins are not ever going to make it outside Japan. Touhou gets a really decent amount of serious doujin works, but if you don't know the author in advance and buy it from a doujin shop or an event or something you're basically out of luck. Even then you need a translator unless you can read japanese.
In other words, I just dislike what the translator/editors are working on. No luck, then.
Could use AppLocale if you aren't willing to just leave your computer on japanese locale.
I'll google that, that sounds interesting.
And one last thing I'd like coming from the fandom: more mythological references. Apparently, Eirin is based on Omoikane's character (dunno who it is, but apparently it's smart and godlike), so I'd like to see more works about Eirin being a god, Toyosatomimi being Shoutoku, and Layla being dead.
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Inaba is about the Eientei, not about the Lunar Capital.
It's got a chapter or two about the Watatsukis coming to visit though.
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Moon-related or not, yeah, starting with the Touhou Wiki and reading up on official sources is a good idea. ZUN's Touhou wiki article has plenty of resources.
As I think of it, I would like to see more fanworks that riff off of things ZUN wrote in official sources. Like, I dunno, "previously unreleased excerpts" from the interviews Aya conducted, showing quotes were completely taken out of context, or the interviewee went off at length about so-and-so because they foolishly thought this part was off the record, and so on.
I've read CoLA, The Fairy Mangas, PMiSS, SSiB and SoPM. That's all the Canon stuff I know, though likely that will have been corrected by the morning.
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2) It's still extremely clumsy coming from ZUN, as it's basically new characters recently introduced versus the Eldest One. I know there was probably no other way to write that story, but a new character curbsstomping everyone in sight was not a good move coming from ZUN. I dunno, personally, I felt like it was more like "those new characters just kicked your favourites' character bottom up to Oblivion, art thou mad?" rather than "the lunarians are just insanely powerful and your touhous are just youkais and magicians, they can't do much against gods that existed before mankind".
Since when are the good guys supposed to lose? Touhou isn't meant to be dark, so the villians(Reimu, Remilia, Sakuya, and Marisa) are supposed to lose. Reimu already mentions this in the manga before they even began fighting.
While Marisa and Sakuya was beaten rather easily, neither Reimu nor Remilia was beaten easily, I don't get what more do you want? Do note, you simply cannot have them beating Yorihime, they are the bad guys here.
Just think of Reimu, Remilia, Sakuya and Marisa as the 4 horseman of apocalypse that is coming to the Lunar Capitol to mess it up. Yorihime is your resident hero who is trying to defend the city. Surely, you would not want the city to go in flames right?
What I want to see is some more back story for Yuyuko and Yukari. There was one I read that was interesting, but I think it never ended... There could also be some back story on Suika, Aya, and Yuuka. What was it like back in the day. Suika knows Aya and Yukari, so some of them have met before. So, what circumstances did they meet in? Friendly or not so friendly?
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I'm reading them for the plot. If there's no plot, then there's no point in reading it, save for the art, and fanworks aren't usually that great, artistically speaking (save for nitro unknown, that guy/gal/group rocks, I'm frequently masturbating to his doujin, even through they aren't translated).
You can't really say you're reading them for the plot if you previously say that there's no point in reading it if everything ends up "back to normal". A story doesn't need a net change by the end in order to have a plot, and even still, going "back to normal" doesn't mean there isn't a net change.
1) ZUN wrote SSiB. Aki Eda just draw it. If anything is to blame for the manga, it's Jun.
Your argument was that good artists probably don't write too well, and then that ZUN flubbed some of SSiB. If you weren't implying that ZUN drew SSiB -> ZUN didn't write it well then your wording confused whatever you actually meant.
2) It's still extremely clumsy coming from ZUN, as it's basically new characters recently introduced versus the Eldest One. I know there was probably no other way to write that story, but a new character curbsstomping everyone in sight was not a good move coming from ZUN. I dunno, personally, I felt like it was more like "those new characters just kicked your favourites' character bottom up to Oblivion, art thou mad?" rather than "the lunarians are just insanely powerful and your touhous are just youkais and magicians, they can't do much against gods that existed before mankind".
Well uh, that's sort of your bad for not recognizing this. Being the main character should mean nothing in terms of whether or not they're defeated, and Reimu being the Hakurei maiden in Gensokyo only reinforces the decision of having her lose outside of it. I repeat that it's also somewhat hypocritical that you wonder and rage at people calling the Wakatsukis moonbitches while expressing the same surface-level reasoning why people call them moonbitches. Do I think ZUN could have handled the particular scenario better? Sure. Do I think he could have developed the Wakatsuki sisters as a whole better? Sure. But you'll only stick to that surface-level "they beat my touhous as soon as they showed up baww" reaction as long as you're just taking everything at face value, which also makes your wish for more complicated plots a really weird thing to say.
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I feel like ZUN created the whole lunarian thing only to piss of fans and cause arguments.
Eirin being a god, Sakuya being a lunarian, those two lunar sisters, Kaguya's NEET-ness...
Yeah, ZUN is a troll :V
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I feel like ZUN created the whole lunarian thing only to piss of fans and cause arguments.
Don't think it's his fault if some fans create speculations and then fight over them.
Something else I'd like to see more of: Touhou Westerns. They're always enjoyable.
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Don't think it's his fault if some fans create speculations and then fight over them.
Something else I'd like to see more of: Touhou Westerns. They're always enjoyable.
You mean like Touhou USA?
Yeah, lightdreamer. I actually sorta like the sisters (mainly for their designs) and want there to be more info about them but you're taking this a bit personally.
Eh, I was just expressing my annoyance.
Like it or not though you two, folks are gonna call the girls what they want to. Can't stop 'em from doing that. Freedom of speech and all that.
Hell, some folks who are fans of Cirno use the term 'Nineball' in an endearing and affectionate manner. (Ex; "Now that's the nineball we know and love.")
All of those nicknames are still annoying though, affectionate or not.
What I want to see is some more back story for Yuyuko and Yukari. There was one I read that was interesting, but I think it never ended...
Hmm, you mean that one manga with some yuri scenes between those two and Youki killing Buddhist priests? Wasn't it finished already?
I repeat that it's also somewhat hypocritical that you wonder and rage at people calling the Wakatsukis moonbitches while expressing the same surface-level reasoning why people call them moonbitches.
Yeah. I'm starting to wonder whether you (Hart) are really a fan of those two.
You know what, I think we should just make a new thread for all this Watatsuki stuff rather than hijacking poor Game2011's thread. Any objections?
Also, to make this post actually on-topic, I'd like to see a doujin about the village's youkai exterminator killing a youkai that actually threatens humans for real. I got this idea from WaHH's latest chapter by the way.
Oh, and bonus point if the youkai's a little girl, not just your generic monster.
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Yeah. I'm starting to wonder whether you (Hart) are really a fan of those two.
You can still be a fan of a character while recognising that they, or the work they appear in, have flaws.
Furthermore, even if he wasn't a fan, he could dislike the use of the term because it's a bit harsh. Seeing things in black and white is meant to be Shikieiki's thang.
What I want to see is some more back story for Yuyuko and Yukari. There could also be some back story on Suika, Aya, and Yuuka. What was it like back in the day. Suika knows Aya and Yukari, so some of them have met before. So, what circumstances did they meet in? Friendly or not so friendly?
Ooh, yes, this would be fun.
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You can still be a fan of a character while recognising that they, or the work they appear in, have flaws.
Furthermore, even if he wasn't a fan, he could dislike the use of the term because it's a bit harsh. Seeing things in black and white is meant to be Shikieiki's thang.
I know that. It's just that his complaint is pretty much the same with the haters' complaint, and I find that really odd.
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I'd like to see a modified image of Yukari's train spellcard to demonstrate a thread's been derailed.
Also some summits of the top brass youkai would be nice.
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What I want to see is some more back story for Yuyuko and Yukari. There was one I read that was interesting, but I think it never ended... There could also be some back story on Suika, Aya, and Yuuka. What was it like back in the day. Suika knows Aya and Yukari, so some of them have met before. So, what circumstances did they meet in? Friendly or not so friendly?
Yuyuko/Yukari backstory seemed to be a pretty popular topic last I checked (although that was a few years ago), but I really am curious about the Aya/Suika situation. There seems to be some kind of political situation regarding the tengu and the oni. While maybe going into the details of youkai politics would be odd, having that be the backdrop of some historical backstory thing would be interesting.
Also, I'm pretty sure Aya used to be a ninja before newspapers were invented. Search your heart, you know it to be true.
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Yuyuko/Yukari backstory seemed to be a pretty popular topic last I checked (although that was a few years ago), but I really am curious about the Aya/Suika situation. There seems to be some kind of political situation regarding the tengu and the oni. While maybe going into the details of youkai politics would be odd, having that be the backdrop of some historical backstory thing would be interesting.
Also, I'm pretty sure Aya used to be a ninja before newspapers were invented. Search your heart, you know it to be true.
By the way, if those kinds of stories take place in the distant past, I want them to look like actual monsters.
You said it yourself, Clarste, that in the ancient times, they used to look like that.
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I'd like to see a modified image of Yukari's train spellcard to demonstrate a thread's been derailed.
This. Someone make this now please.
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Yeah. I'm starting to wonder whether you (Hart) are really a fan of those two.
If you think this is the case, then it means I really suck at expressing what I think.
I'm not blaming the moonhoneys, I'm just disliking how SSiB handled the battle between them and the touhous girls. But given how what I say is misinterpreted and how I'm derailing this thread, I think I'll just shut it.
For now.
Also, I'm pretty sure Aya used to be a ninja before newspapers were invented. Search your heart, you know it to be true.
You said it yourself, Clarste, that in the ancient times, they used to look like that.
With the big red nose and the beard?
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Hmm, you mean that one manga with some yuri scenes between those two and Youki killing Buddhist priests? Wasn't it finished already?
No, there is one where Yuyuko and Youki met with Kaguya and Eirin back when Kaguya and Eirin were not hidden in the Bamboo forest. It seemed interesting, but I don't think it was continued.
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Eh, I was just expressing my annoyance.
All of those nicknames are still annoying though, affectionate or not.
Yeah. I'm starting to wonder whether you (Hart) are really a fan of those two.
Is there something about "you seriously need to drop this" that you find confusing and hard to understand?
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Is there something about "you seriously need to drop this" that you find confusing and hard to understand?
The others should also drop it then.
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The others should also drop it then.
No, dude. YOU have been the problem in this thread. You have been the one who's insisted on derailing this thread - those expressing opinions you don't like have stayed on topic, unlike you. Your deliberate shit-stirring and derailing has been a problem, and no matter how many times you've been asked to drop it, you keep insisting on further derails and shit-stirring.
So this is me asking you, once again: drop this crap about the Watas. You've derailed this thread repeatedly with your behavior. Let it go.
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No, dude. YOU have been the problem in this thread. You have been the one who's insisted on derailing this thread - those expressing opinions you don't like have stayed on topic, unlike you. Your deliberate shit-stirring and derailing has been a problem, and no matter how many times you've been asked to drop it, you keep insisting on further derails and shit-stirring.
So this is me asking you, once again: drop this crap about the Watas. You've derailed this thread repeatedly with your behavior. Let it go.
Oh please, it's not like I'm the only one who's talking about the Watas here.
There are Hart and Drake for example.
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Oh please, it's not like I'm the only one who's talking about the Watas here.
There are Hart and Drake for example.
Read my post again. I said:
those expressing opinions you don't like have stayed on topic, unlike you.
Again, this is me asking you to drop this. If you lack the self-control to keep from firing off at people who express opinions you don't like about fictional characters, just ask, and someone on the staff will gladly help you stop posting.
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Read my post again. I said:
Again, this is me asking you to drop this. If you lack the self-control to keep from firing off at people who express opinions you don't like about fictional characters, just ask, and someone on the staff will gladly help you stop posting.
So, I'm not allowed to express my disagreement with those opinions that I don't agree with?
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yuyuko x yukari, I only know one PV about it, Border of Extacy (NSFW)
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So, I'm not allowed to express my disagreement with those opinions that I don't agree with?
Why is this hard to understand? Let me link back to what I said before:
After you asked me to "make sure that no one calls the Watatsukis "Mary Sues" anymore", I said:
Uh, no, lightdreamer. There's no negotiating derails and character opinions. People are going to say whatever they please about these fictional characters. That's they're right, just as it's yours to disagree, but both sides need to stay on topic. If that's a problem for you, you can always to choose to not reply, but that's how it is.
Emphasis added. All you've been doing is jumping in here to scold people who don't like the Watas, find flaws with the Watas, and even (hilariously) questioning the level of fan devotion to the Watas others have.
The opinion isn't as much of a problem - although your tenacity and deliberate poking is definitely wearing thin - it's that you're ignoring the topic of the thread, which shows disrespect for the other people trying to have a discussion here.
It should be perfectly clear to you by now what the problem is. There's a big difference between "disagreeing" and making it your mission to whiteknight the Watas by attacking others, and you've been deliberately ignoring the topic of this thread, which is what the kids call "derailing". And both need to stop.
If you have any other questions, message me, because this stupidity has derailed this thread enough. Thank you.
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So, I'm not allowed to express my disagreement with those opinions that I don't agree with?
You are allowed that. However, constantly derailing a thread and being argumentative with other members-- over something irrelevant to the topic and petty at best, no less, for pages on end-- and disregarding another staff member when they tell you multiple times to stop that is something else entirely. I am aware Ammy is discussing things with you personally now. Please listen to him before you begin posting again after your break.
Until then, take some time to cool your head, please.
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I wish more comics about Koishi would be made.
saved the thread, didn't i?
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I wish more comics about Koishi would be made.
saved the thread, didn't i?
I wish more comics about Koishi would be made, and I wish that they're not inspired from Bune's one.
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I wish more comics about Koishi would be made.
Ever read Koishi the Loving Gourmet (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Anatawo_Haijindesu)? It's quite good. Wish there was more like it, though...
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I'd really like to see more of Koishi. Anything really. Although I want to see more Satori and Koishi bonding moments.
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I'd really like to see more of Koishi. Anything really. Although I want to see more Satori and Koishi bonding moments.
For a Satori and Koishi fix, I think Red-Sight's Pure Jade Anthocyanin (http://www.gensokyo.org/archives/1252) is pretty great.
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For a Satori and Koishi fix, I think Red-Sight's Pure Jade Anthocyanin (http://www.gensokyo.org/archives/1252) is pretty great.
404 Not Found
:colonveeplusalpha:
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I'd love anything with Koishi in it.
Anything that doesn't involve my heart throbbing.
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I'd love anything with Koishi in it.
Anything that doesn't involve my heart throbbing.
110% agreed.
Koishi is epic.
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Speaking of Koishi, which ''kind'' of Koishi do you guys prefer? The cold, lonely one? The happy one without a care in the world? The mind-rapist?
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404 Not Found
:colonveeplusalpha:
TouhouWiki has ya covered. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/RED-SIGHT) (Actually, let me add a link to Koishi the Loving Gourmet too...)
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Speaking of Koishi, which ''kind'' of Koishi do you guys prefer? The cold, lonely one? The happy one without a care in the world? The mind-rapist?
I dont know. Any Koishi will do for me.
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TouhouWiki has ya covered. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/RED-SIGHT) (Actually, let me add a link to Koishi the Loving Gourmet too...)
Ah, thanks. :toot:
E: That was great. It might be a minor thing but, I wanna see more of Koishi with hearts as her pupils.
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The cold, lonely one? The happy one without a care in the world? The mind-rapist?
All of the above combined. Subconsciously cold and lonely on the inside, but appears happy and carefree on the outside, even fooling herself; she might become a mind-rapist if something or someone pushes her far enough~
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All of the above combined. Subconsciously cold and lonely on the inside, but appears happy and carefree on the outside, even fooling herself; she might become a mind-rapist if something or someone pushes her far enough~
Yay for amazing Koishi :3 I'm currently reading Koish the Loving Gourmet, and that's pretty much how she is. Next on my list, Pure Jade Anthocyanin!
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Speaking of Koishi, which ''kind'' of Koishi do you guys prefer? The cold, lonely one? The happy one without a care in the world? The mind-rapist?
I prefer the happy go-lucky Koishi. That isn't to say I don't like the other ones though. I read I Don't Understand My Sister a long while back, and it was pretty great. I used to not like the crazy/yandere Koishi, however, that changed my mind. I tried reading Koishi the Loving Gourmet but couldn't downlaod it due to a 404 error. ANy chance you could direct me to some place I can get it or read it?
More on topic, otherwise this may as well be the Koishi thread or something, I'd also like to see more hard working Komachi. Similar to the WaHH Komachi, but in fanon. Seriously, she's always sleeping when she shows up. It makes me sad ;-; Though, if implemented nicely, it can be pretty great.
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I prefer the happy go-lucky Koishi. That isn't to say I don't like the other ones though. I read I Don't Understand My Sister a long while back, and it was pretty great. I used to not like the crazy/yandere Koishi, however, that changed my mind. I tried reading Koishi the Loving Gourmet but couldn't downlaod it due to a 404 error. ANy chance you could direct me to some place I can get it or read it?
More on topic, otherwise this may as well be the Koishi thread or something, I'd also like to see more hard working Komachi. Similar to the WaHH Komachi, but in fanon. Seriously, she's always sleeping when she shows up. It makes me sad ;-; Though, if implemented nicely, it can be pretty great.
Here you go for Koishi's gourmet adventure~ http://danbooru.donmai.us/pool/show/2157 Usual danbooru NSFW warning and all that.
I'd like to see more hard-working Komachi too. I can't remember where, but I once read a doujin about Reimu growing old and dying, and had a deep, meaningful conversation with Komachi (who did not like being called ''nice to humans'') and it was a relief, compared to the usual Lazy Komachi. (which can be good if well done, like most fanon interpretations in general.)
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I kinda wanna see a laid back Eiki or a SANE Flan. I'm tired of seeing the same psychopathic Flan in pretty much every doujin I've read.
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I kinda wanna see a laid back Eiki or a SANE Flan. I'm tired of seeing the same psychopathic Flan in pretty much every doujin I've read.
I like psycho-flan if it's well inserted. Like, a happy cheerful Flandre that's really just a child wanting to play... but hurt her or those around her (Sakuya, Remilia, Meiling, Patchouli) and it's guaranteed you won't ever do it again.
As for laid back Eiki, yeah, the fandom needs more of that. Better yet (In my opinion), a serious Eiki who tries very hard not to be laid back, but accidentally (or willingly) shows her more relaxed side once in a while.
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Flan is difficult because she is honestly a pretty flat character even though I love her. Little social interaction means she won't know how to act, and she's basically a kid running around with nukes in her hand so it's really hard to write Flan between batshit and innocent. Most of the time, writers are going to have to throw in a dozen more character traits in order to do anything. A "sane" Flan actually makes the most sense, but you can't really leave out the dangerous side in any not-short piece of writing.
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I think the easiest way around that would be Future Flan. Older, wiser, going outside more and more, having undergone interactions outside of SDM. Maybe still grappling with issues from her childhood, but coming to terms with them. Could be a bit on the grim side, and would involve including how others, and maybe Gensokyo itself, have changed in the intervening time.
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ammy stop suggesting good things because eventually i will spend a bunch of time writing them
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I think the easiest way around that would be Future Flan. Older, wiser, going outside more and more, having undergone interactions outside of SDM. Maybe still grappling with issues from her childhood, but coming to terms with them. Could be a bit on the grim side, and would involve including how others, and maybe Gensokyo itself, have changed in the intervening time.
This... is pure genius. Has this been used in a doujin before?
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I tried reading Koishi the Loving Gourmet but couldn't downlaod it due to a 404 error. ANy chance you could direct me to some place I can get it or read it?
Did the links in here (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Anatawo_Haijindesu) somehow not work for you? They work fine for me.
I think I'd like to see more troubled Byakuren. No, not "Nazi Byakuren" or whatever the name is for the Byakuren who goes around splattered in guts and gore. I'll take canonically "nice person" Byakuren over that. But she strikes me as the sort of person who will take the time out to think about things, and I'd like to see her possibly re-evaluate her stances on youkai and human equality and peace now that she's been released and has had time to see the world Gensokyo has become, and how her ideas might need updating.
I'll read doujins about pointlessly violent Byakuren, sure. I'll read doujins where she's the smiling face who takes in the main characters and is cheerfully oblivious to the bad things her disciples do. I'll read those, because they're around, and I have room for other people's wildly varying interpretations of her. But what I haven't seen is a Byakuren who is wondering how she'll make her way in this world, so different from the one she knew a thousand years ago. I want to see a thinking Byakuren.
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This... is pure genius. Has this been used in a doujin before?
Not to my knowledge, nor was the David Lynch Touhou idea.
But she strikes me as the sort of person who will take the time out to think about things, and I'd like to see her possibly re-evaluate her stances on youkai and human equality and peace now that she's been released and has had time to see the world Gensokyo has become, and how her ideas might need updating. ... But what I haven't seen is a Byakuren who is wondering how she'll make her way in this world, so different from the one she knew a thousand years ago. I want to see a thinking Byakuren.
That would be really nice. I'd like to see how this re-evaluation of her affects her relationships with Shou and Murasa especially.
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Read Post-Mysticism, if you haven't already. She's clearly the least of all sides in the three-way discussion.
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Read Post-Mysticism, if you haven't already. She's clearly the least of all sides in the three-way discussion.
Off-topic: Where's that picture of Nazrin in your sig from? This is important.
On topic: I'd like to see carefree but kind of melancholy presentation Koishi. Basically The Loving Gourmet's version. The idea behind her character is that she's incapable of even realizing how lonely she is, which is obviously dramatic. Insane Koishi is just weird. Also, I like serious Komachi, but I wouldn't exactly call that "hardworking". She's just serious about things that aren't her job. :3
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http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=19775740
speaking of aki, gif animation in avatars isn't working so poof, my avatar now induces death
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Thank you.
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I want more Eirin and Reisen yuri, dammit.
Also, I desire less SOPM-as-gospel. People seemed to have forgotten that Akyuu fabricates things on a whim/when paid/can't be bothered to research, and her research partners are Marisa, who is the worst liar to come to the Liar Village since Liar McLiarson ran for Head Liar, and Aya, who is Liar McLiarson.
Granted, I'm a bad fan who was reared on fluffy yuri and gag manga.
fake edit: Regarding Flan, I always viewed her as strangely innocent. All her kyuuing and 'madness' comes from repeated temper tantrums as a toddler (a toddler than suddenly makes things violently explode) and Remilia and friends/family/vampires treating her as THE THING IN THE BASEMENT. 500 years has given her SOME adult handling on the world, but for all intents and purposes, she's a scared 12-year-old.
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Wasn't it implied, though, that Flan is in the basement voluntarily, or at least has little interest in venturing out? Because that's why I want Future Flan.
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The way I understand it, she has some interest in it, but stays down below out of respect for, and loyalty to, big sis Remi.
Remi's the only person who she really obeys in any manner.
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I want more Eirin and Reisen yuri, dammit.
Also, I desire less SOPM-as-gospel. People seemed to have forgotten that Akyuu fabricates things on a whim/when paid/can't be bothered to research, and her research partners are Marisa, who is the worst liar to come to the Liar Village since Liar McLiarson ran for Head Liar, and Aya, who is Liar McLiarson.
Granted, I'm a bad fan who was reared on fluffy yuri and gag manga.
You have to remember though that half of SoPM is actually a transcription of a discussion between Miko, Byakuren and Kanako. Presumably that's more reliable than the articles.
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You have to remember though that half of SoPM is actually a transcription of a discussion between Miko, Byakuren and Kanako. Presumably that's more reliable than the articles.
Pfffft, like those three have the whole picture. And who wrote down all that, hmmmmmm?
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Pfffft, like those three have the whole picture. And who wrote down all that, hmmmmmm?
Of course they don't have the whole picture. They can't even agree with each other. But it still provides a more balanced viewpoint. And if, say, Kanako tells us why she chose Utsuho to be Yatagarasu's vessel then we suddenly have a more informed viewpoint on the matter. Is she 100% factually correct on every issue? Probably not, but no one is, not even in real life. As for Akyuu being the secretary, why would she go out of her way to include stuff that contradicts what she writes in the other sections? Not to mention the fact that there are at least 4 (5?) people who would be able to instantly call her out on it.
Basically, I'm tired of this whole "Akyuu is a lying liar so I can claim that whatever random thing I make up is just as true as the canon side materials". Yes, Akyuu is biased and often ill-informed. However, that's usually made extremely obvious in the text. That doesn't mean that everything she says is completely wrong, or that we should just completely ignore the book. People are imperfect, even historians. Question everything you hear, look at any fact from multiple angles. Sure, those are good habits. But honestly that kind of thing is symposium's specialty anyway. It does show multiple perspectives on things, by presenting a dialog between multiple opposing parties. What was that term... dialectic? The truth is revealed by disagreement.
Edit: Of course, I have nothing against people telling stories that directly contradict canon. Heck, most of them do in some way or another, and I'm certainly guilty of thinking of characters in non-canon ways. I just don't like it when people try to dismiss what little canon we have as meaningless. Or worse, never read it in the first place. It's one of those "you have to know the rules before you can choose to break them" things. That's a pet peeve of mine.
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Of course they don't have the whole picture. They can't even agree with each other. But it still provides a more balanced viewpoint. And if, say, Kanako tells us why she chose Utsuho to be Yatagarasu's vessel then we suddenly have a more informed viewpoint on the matter. Is she 100% factually correct on every issue? Probably not, but no one is, not even in real life. As for Akyuu being the secretary, why would she go out of her way to include stuff that contradicts what she writes in the other sections? Not to mention the fact that there are at least 4 (5?) people who would be able to instantly call her out on it.
Basically, I'm tired of this whole "Akyuu is a lying liar so I can claim that whatever random thing I make up is just as true as the canon side materials". Yes, Akyuu is biased and often ill-informed. However, that's usually made extremely obvious in the text. That doesn't mean that everything she says is completely wrong, or that we should just completely ignore the book. People are imperfect, even historians. Question everything you hear, look at any fact from multiple angles. Sure, those are good habits. But honestly that kind of thing is symposium's specialty anyway. It does show multiple perspectives on things, by presenting a dialog between multiple opposing parties. What was that term... dialectic? The truth is revealed by disagreement.
Edit: Of course, I have nothing against people telling stories that directly contradict canon. Heck, most of them do in some way or another, and I'm certainly guilty of thinking of characters in non-canon ways. I just don't like it when people try to dismiss what little canon we have as meaningless. Or worse, never read it in the first place. It's one of those "you have to know the rules before you can choose to break them" things. That's a pet peeve of mine.
I feel like I really should thank you for saying out all that. Right, it does get tiring and annoying when someone points to canon sources for clarification, but then other people would claim that such sources are not reliable. They either want even better clarification or only want to believe what they think is right.
I wouldn't be surprise if ZUN confirms something outright, and people don't believe him, saying he is drunk when he said that and therefore cannot be trusted.
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I feel like I really should thank you for saying out all that. Right, it does get tiring and annoying when someone points to canon sources for clarification, but then other people would claim that such sources are not reliable. They either want even better clarification or only want to believe what they think is right.
I wouldn't be surprise if ZUN confirms something outright, and people don't believe him, saying he is drunk when he said that and therefore cannot be trusted.
Yeah, I really hate when people just completely dismiss Akyuu's articles, but I don't think one should take them literally; ZUN did something few people manage to do, and it's to give radically different mindsets for different races. Akyuu's point of view is that of a human, so is ours. That's why she's the one making the SOPM, and it doesn't mean it's unreliable. It means it shouldn't be considered absolute, especially when it comes to personal opinions she expresses; She doesn't lie, she just sees things differently. For example, I doubt anyone here could hold a serious conversation with Yukari for more than 5 minutes.
Then again, saying ''Byakuren said this, but Akyuu totally changed it so it's a lie.'' is incredibly wrong. Oh so very wrong.
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I like Akyuu's articles because they amuse me, she seems to have a sense of humour compatable with my own ie: her footnotes have me in stitches. I like to keep reference to her articles but I always take them with a grain of salt.
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I like Akyuu's articles because they amuse me, she seems to have a sense of humour compatable with my own ie: her footnotes have me in stitches. I like to keep reference to her articles but I always take them with a grain of salt.
Yeah, I really like Akyuu's articles too; It's a wonderful mix between interesting info, funny dialogues and a few hilarious jokes. I hope Akyuu will appear in a game someday, if only for the hilarious dialogues it'll bring.
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Alright, fine fine.
I just get sore whenever people sometimes go into YOUR TOHOS ARE BAD PEOPLE CAUSE CANON SAYS SO mode.
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TOHOS ARE BAD PEOPLE
To be fair, this alone is pretty much a true statement almost universally. :V That's okay though, I still love them.
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TOHOS ARE BAD PEOPLE
To be fair, this alone is pretty much a true statement almost universally.
Well, considering that many of them are youkai, which have made a fearful habit out of scaring, killing and eating humans, I think someone like Akyuu may very well have every right to paint a lot of them in a negative light. The point of Perfect Memento and Symposium in ZUN's canon is to inform and warn humans as to the dangers that liter Gensoukyou from another human's perspective--and a trustworthy human at that, in the eyes of the villagers; her judgments may be biased, but looking at where she's coming from, I can understand completely~
Does that make her absolutely correct? Of course not~! In fact, there are several youkai who don't desire to hurt humans whatsoever, including some that actually wish to interact with and help humans altruistically; however, they are youkai, regardless of their deeds and will, and so, Akyuu must add them, too, and judge how potentially harmful they may or may not be~
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To be fair, this alone is pretty much a true statement almost universally.
Well, considering that many of them are youkai, which have made a fearful habit out of scaring, killing and eating humans, I think someone like Akyuu may very well have every right to paint a lot of them in a negative light. The point of Perfect Memento and Symposium in ZUN's canon is to inform and warn humans as to the dangers that liter Gensoukyou from another human's perspective--and a trustworthy human at that, in the eyes of the villagers; her judgments may be biased, but looking at where she's coming from, I can understand completely~
Yeah, 'cept some of them (like Rumia, Mystia, Kogasa, etc.) are hilariously terrible at their jobs.
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See also "unreliable narrator". It's not that Akyuu is being deliberately deceitful; she's just explaining events through the cloud of her own biases. Personally, I think it's a joy to read such material, and I'd love to see more of it.
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See also "unreliable narrator". It's not that Akyuu is being deliberately deceitful; she's just explaining events through the cloud of her own biases. Personally, I think it's a joy to read such material, and I'd love to see more of it.
Exactly. Plus, it's a refreshing breeze from the usual point of view the game gives; Reimu and Marisa (and now Sanae) are the complete opposite of Akyuu; While Akyuu will warn humans about every youkai, even Rumia since she IS dangerous to a regular human, Reimu/Marisa can pretty much go punch a god in the face and say ''Meh, whatever.''
It's extremely well written, too (in my opinion), which makes it really nice.
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Yeah, 'cept some of them (like Rumia, Mystia, Kogasa, etc.) are hilariously terrible at their jobs.
I'll give you Rumia and Kogasa [Kogasa is debatable since she surprises the other side of the 4th wall], but Mystia is hardly bad at her job. She does try and ambush and eat the heros. Given they are not normal humans she's fighting in IN... imagine if they were normal humans.
And yeah, normal humans are squishy and probably would be eaten if they bumped into Rumia or Mystcia.
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Mystia is even wiser than we think; She sells lamprey that ''cures night-blindness'', which she caused herself.
For a youkai, that's pretty smart; She doesn't just prey on humans, she also extorts them.
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Which is exactly why Akyuu gives her warnings the way she does. I have found that a lot of it is common sense though: Do not stick your head into the floating ball of absolute darkness if you want to keep your face. It would be advisable if you did not challenge the half-ghost swordswoman who can moves faser than you can blink. Angering someone who can kill just by willing it is also not a good idea.
I think it's important that she provides pictures, how else are people supposedto tell who;s who otherwise?
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Which is exactly why Akyuu gives her warnings the way she does. I have found that a lot of it is common sense though: Do not stick your head into the floating ball of absolute darkness if you want to keep your face. It would be advisable if you did not challenge the half-ghost swordswoman who can moves faser than you can blink. Angering someone who can kill just by willing it is also not a good idea.
Exactly, it kinda stings the reader at first when you read it, the ''risk level'' especially. Yukari, high risk level? Why, she's not aggre- Oh, right she can manipulate reality and she's by the far the last person you want to mess it. And so on for a LOT of characters. Common sense is used, and it's somewhat funny considering Gensokyo rarely follows said common sense.
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Going to have to thank Clarste because that post was essentially exactly what I'd say.
This is why Gensokyo is portrayed through a wide variety of different lenses. Even if, say, we only had one book outside of the games for canon material, that's still better than seeing Gensokyo entirely through the games, which for the most part shouldn't be taken literally at all. This is why we have CoLA: a composition of small seemingly insignficant events with hidden gems of importance viewed through the eyes of Rinnosuke, a half-youkai(!) who can't fight, runs a small shop, talks to people, and tries to explain things he experiences entirely through his perspective. This is why we have SSiB and CiLR: two respective halves of the same story, currently Gensokyo's only serious plot that doesn't revolve around beating each other up and instead concentrating on the way characters think and behave. SSiB being a manga gives the reader a clear view of events, creating a mostly-objective viewpoint, and CiLR is extremely detailed and fleshes out everything that isn't actually shown. This is why we have the Three Fairies trilogy: a manga using the three fairies as perspective in a similar way to CoLA, acting as background observing devices who like to go investigate some of the most meaningless things, in order to give the reader a visual account of events for anything ZUN whimsies to show us. Importantly, there is very rarely any distinction drawn between mundane events and important events, because the fairies just don't care. This sort of character bias can barely even be called a bias.
This is also why we have another more dramatic manga, interviews and newspaper articles, more interviews and newspaper articles with two writers, a documentation of characters by a biased human that doesn't know much outside of their own interaction but has essentially lived super long, another documentation of characters by a biased human etc, a debate between several parties meant to reveal the sentiments and stances of their larger groups, and a collection of spellcards described in real terms instead of game visuals along with little notes about mythologies and whatnot.
and then we take all of that and we just make a lot of porn
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and then we take all of that and we just make a lot of porn
Not to mention, with just about anything made in Japan, the cardinal guideline seems to be that all females have to at least be bisexual, and in the case of Touhou... Well...
LESBIANS. LESBIANS EVERYWHERE. :derp:
(By the way, if I may go back to the core point of this thread, I, myself, would actually like to see less hormone-driven imagery in doujinshi and fan art, but I'm well-aware that isn't going to be happening any time soon.)
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(By the way, if I may go back to the core point of this thread, I, myself, would actually like to see less hormone-driven imagery in doujinshi and artwork, but I'm well-aware that isn't going to be happening any time soon.)
is there still room for Malice
i can't live without my Malice :C
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Going to have to thank Clarste because that post was essentially exactly what I'd say.
This is why Gensokyo is portrayed through a wide variety of different lenses. Even if, say, we only had one book outside of the games for canon material, that's still better than seeing Gensokyo entirely through the games, which for the most part shouldn't be taken literally at all. This is why we have CoLA: a composition of small seemingly insignficant events with hidden gems of importance viewed through the eyes of Rinnosuke, a half-youkai(!) who can't fight, runs a small shop, talks to people, and tries to explain things he experiences entirely through his perspective. This is why we have SSiB and CiLR: two respective halves of the same story, currently Gensokyo's only serious plot that doesn't revolve around beating each other up and instead concentrating on the way characters think and behave. SSiB being a manga gives the reader a clear view of events, creating a mostly-objective viewpoint, and CiLR is extremely detailed and fleshes out everything that isn't actually shown. This is why we have the Three Fairies trilogy: a manga using the three fairies as perspective in a similar way to CoLA, acting as background observing devices who like to go investigate some of the most meaningless things, in order to give the reader a visual account of events for anything ZUN whimsies to show us. Importantly, there is very rarely any distinction drawn between mundane events and important events, because the fairies just don't care. This sort of character bias can barely even be called a bias.
This is also why we have another more dramatic manga, interviews and newspaper articles, more interviews and newspaper articles with two writers, a documentation of characters by a biased human that doesn't know much outside of their own interaction but has essentially lived super long, another documentation of characters by a biased human etc, a debate between several parties meant to reveal the sentiments and stances of their larger groups, and a collection of spellcards described in real terms instead of game visuals along with little notes about mythologies and whatnot.
and then we take all of that and we just make a lot of porn
This is what drew me to Touhou in the first place, this myriad of different viewpoints coming together to make a coherent structured world that still leaves plenty to the imagination. It's a wonderful feeling to watch/read/play something set in a world like this, understanding that what you know isn't everything and all sorts off opportunities exists for you to make something of it. At least that's what I believe.
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is there still room for Malice
i can't live without my Malice :C
Well, I guess if I had to be a little more specific (and fairer, given the strength of the market), I would like to see more subtlety about it, if anything~
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Well, I guess if I had to be a little more specific (and fairer, given the strength of the market), I would like to see more subtlety about it, if anything~
I'm a fan of Malice, but seriously, any and every pairing can be good in Touhou if done well. A CirnoXPatchouli can be just as good/horrible as a MariXAlice. I really dislike the crappy ''MARISA IM HORNEH HUR HUR LESBIANS'' ''OH ALICE HUR HUR''.
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I really dislike the crappy ''MARISA IM HORNEH HUR HUR LESBIANS'' ''OH ALICE HUR HUR''.
Precisely. I understand that Japan is still a very sexually-repressed society and they need to vent their urges, but that excuse doesn't make the void of more appropriate, reasonable portrayals of lesbianism any less daunting~ :wat:
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is there still room for Malice
i can't live without my Malice :C
Me neither. Even my username was based on it :(
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Precisely. I understand that Japan is still a very sexually-repressed society and they need to vent their urges, but that excuse doesn't make the void of more appropriate, reasonable portrayals of lesbianism any less daunting~ :wat:
Yeah. The most confusing doujin I've read was a doujin about Marisa and Reimu's antics and stuff, and there's this part where Marisa explains Reimu's attitude depending on the amount of donations she get each day, so she thinks; ''Hey, I wonder what happen if I give 100 000 yen?''
SUDDENLY KINKY BONDAGE LESBIAN SEX.
What.
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Alright, fine fine.
I just get sore whenever people sometimes go into YOUR TOHOS ARE BAD PEOPLE CAUSE CANON SAYS SO mode.
Reimu is insanely grumpy and racist, at least :V
But yeah, the constant 'everyone is terrible and grim and dark and eats people' gets irritating, after a while.
http://eva-st-clare.deviantart.com/art/FAILice-For-Dummies-185420748 For people who hate shitty Alice hate. WHERE the FUCK did the Alice hate come from? Every unfunny gag manga has a joke shitting on her.
fake edit: The sex is just a bonus to fluffy yuri. >:C
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Yeah. The most confusing doujin I've read was a doujin about Marisa and Reimu's antics and stuff, and there's this part where Marisa explains Reimu's attitude depending on the amount of donations she get each day, so she thinks; ''Hey, I wonder what happen if I give 100 000 yen?''
SUDDENLY KINKY BONDAGE LESBIAN SEX.
What.
Well at least that type of pairing-up is mainly just for comedic effect and well not really to be taken seriously...
Didn't that doujin have Marisa leave after she saw Reimu pretty much waiting for her to get in bed though?
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http://eva-st-clare.deviantart.com/art/FAILice-For-Dummies-185420748 For people who hate shitty Alice hate. WHERE the FUCK did the Alice hate come from? Every unfunny gag manga has a joke shitting on her.
V
V
"Pro tip: Alice sucks, so make her suffer at any cost!"
... :ohdear: *silently cries*
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Well at least that type of pairing-up is mainly just for comedic effect and well not really to be taken seriously...
Didn't that doujin have Marisa leave after she saw Reimu pretty much waiting for her to get in bed though?
Now that I think about it, it did have a bit of comedy in it... But still, we all know there are doujins are there who are just as random, if not worse, and are 100 % serious.
"Pro tip: Alice sucks, so make her suffer at any cost!"
... :ohdear: *silently cries*
...*cries in unison*
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Out of interest is this the one you were referring to? http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/515645/2girls-absurdres-bandana-bow-box-broom-comic-cup-d (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/515645/2girls-absurdres-bandana-bow-box-broom-comic-cup-d) (NSFW Danbooru Advertisements Notice)
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Out of interest is this the one you were referring to? http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/515645/2girls-absurdres-bandana-bow-box-broom-comic-cup-d (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/515645/2girls-absurdres-bandana-bow-box-broom-comic-cup-d) (NSFW Danbooru Advertisements Notice)
Yep, that's the one. :D
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Didn't that doujin have Marisa leave after she saw Reimu pretty much waiting for her to get in bed though?
The first time.
She goes back.
It's listed here on the wiki. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ennui_Akadako#Dichromatic_Butterfly_.282005-05-04.29)
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The first time.
She goes back.
Dayum, Marisa, you get all the girls.
Topic related, I learned to enjoy hilarious random touhou comics. I think Bomber grape's series on Danbooru was the most hilarious thing I've ever read in my entire life.
Satori: Maybe it's this switch?
*far away, in the SDM*
Sakuya: Uh?
*padsplosion*
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[...]and then we take all of that and we just make a lot of porn
This is what drew me to Touhou in the first place[...]
unfortunate quote placement hoooooo :flowerpower:
Anywhoo, in the fandom, I'd like to see more people being respectful of other people's opinions and recognising that very little is absolute in touhou. Also, need moar Remilia and Patchouli chumming it up, and overly protective Sakuya.
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Also, need moar Remilia and Patchouli chumming it up
Yes! They have one of my favourite friendships in the series. Would love to see more doujins explore that. I wonder what she thought when she first ran into Remilia and learned about her sister being locked in the basement (by her own will, at that), or what she was thinking when the mansion moved to Gensokyo.
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Yes! They have one of my favourite friendships in the series. Would love to see more doujins explore that. I wonder what she thought when she first ran into Remilia and learned about her sister being locked in the basement (by her own will, at that), or what she was thinking when the mansion moved to Gensokyo.
Speaking of which, is there a doujin that even explains how they met or something? I'd really like to see such thing, because I've been wondering what exactly caused their friendship. It's so mysterious~
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Anywhoo, in the fandom, I'd like to see more people being respectful of other people's opinions and recognising that very little is absolute in touhou.
Hooray~! I'm not the only one who believes in the power of imagination here~! :D
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Hooray~! I'm not the only one who believes in the power of imagination here~! :D
I honestly think some of the fun of Touhou is theorycrafting and worldbuilding; I love seeing other people's views of the characters and the setting.
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Precisely~! I get the most enjoyment out of seeing others' creative ideas and speculation. After all, ZUN himself seems to consider his own collective works as doujinshi, too, so I see that as the perfect opportunity for open interpretation of the core characterization, themes and ideas that he introduces in said works~
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Yeah, I don't think there's any other series with THIS many fan interpretations and different kind of doujins. It's amazing~
As long as it doesn't into a fight to the death over which interpretation is better :(
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Yeah, I don't think there's any other series with THIS many fan interpretations and different kind of doujins. It's amazing~
As long as it doesn't into a fight to the death over which interpretation is better :(
My interpretation is better anyway, because I have a beard.
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Here you go for Koishi's gourmet adventure~ http://danbooru.donmai.us/pool/show/2157 Usual danbooru NSFW warning and all that.
Did the links in here (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Anatawo_Haijindesu) somehow not work for you? They work fine for me.
A bit late of a reply on my end, but thanks to both of ya. The download I was using was on different site. I should have used the Wiki in the first place it would seem.
I like to view pretty much anyone's opinion on a character as long as they aren't over demeaning of said character or overusing some interpretations. As far as the plot goes, it's Touhou. Who cares!? Well, to some extend, I do... but still, as long as the characters are involved it's pretty much gold. I'm generally accepting of other's views and tend to enjoy them myself rather than get upset because someone made Yuyuko eat another 10 dozen cupcakes... Okay, maybe that does upset me a little, but my opinion on the work overall wouldn't be too greatly affected if that's the only issue.
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I find the structure of Touhou and its loose canon makes me so much more lenient than any other fandom I've ever been in. I'm usually the "I don't like it but I'll ignore it" fan, who reads/writes what I specifically want, even if I'm the only one who writes it so I only read my own works, and never start yelling at other people who believe differently. But in Touhou, instead of having an OTP for a few characters and never crossing pairs, I'm extremely lenient as long as the work isn't squicking me out, and even write multiple pairings per character. And I love reading about how different people interpret the various little hints that ZUN has left as to things going on.
It helps that I'm the type who loves to try and figure out if certain ideas can work based on canon, and Touhou has a lot of questions with multiple answers.
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I'm willing to accept pretty much anything when it comes to fandom, if it's well done / not overused. For example, I personally hate the whole Sakuya is a Lunarian thing, but I can still enjoy a doujin that is completely based on that if it's well-written. That's what I love with Touhou in general, I have yet to see two (different) doujins that are remotely the same.
What I'd really like to see more in fandom is more of the TD cast, but they're rarer because it came out a year ago. If anyone knows a few doujins that features the TD cast (including Mamizou~) I'd be really grateful! :D
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Yep more TD's stuff would be great there are barely any in English at least.
Anyways, doujins?
Touhou Seichou - Tayurayura by Johane (SeigaXYoshika)
Nisshoku Jougan by Tohonifun ("Evil" Seiga doujin, sequel released but not translated)
Touhou Aojou - Tego na Teriha by Johane (Mamizou and Ichirin Centered Doujin)
Futo-chan Raper by Omchicken (Futo centered doujin with sexual themed comedy)
There are some doujins that have some TD but their mainly just the Myouren Crew (Kyouko and Mamizou) and well the Kasen Manga does feature those two for a bit, I think (Certain for Kyouko)
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Yep more TD's stuff would be great there are barely any in English at least.
Anyways, doujins?
Touhou Seichou - Tayurayura by Johane (SeigaXYoshika)
Nisshoku Jougan by Tohonifun ("Evil" Seiga doujin, sequel released but not translated)
Touhou Aojou - Tego na Teriha by Johane (Mamizou and Ichirin Centered Doujin)
Futo-chan Raper by Omchicken (Futo centered doujin with sexual themed comedy)
There are some doujins that have some TD but their mainly just the Myouren Crew (Kyouko and Mamizou) and well the Kasen Manga does feature those two for a bit, I think (Certain for Kyouko)
I love you :* that is all.
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Thank you, well that's nice to hear.
For the topic, I'd like to see something that does a MomjiXAya pairing while following Hatate's comments from Double Spoiler.
After hearing about ZUN's (apparent) Canon lock on that pairing I was really interested in seeing someone play around with it, rather than making Momiji a Puppy, Aya a Pervert or something along those lines
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For the topic, I'd like to see something that does a MomjiXAya pairing while following Hatate's comments from Double Spoiler.
After hearing about ZUN's (apparent) Canon lock on that pairing I was really interested in seeing someone play around with it, rather than making Momiji a Puppy, Aya a Pervert or something along those lines
Agreed. One of the main reasons I don' particularly like the MomijixAya is because Momiji is, 90% of the time, always the puppy and Aya just has her way, which also makes her look bad. It would certainly be nice to see a more fair take on the pairing. Maybe then I'll accept AyaMomi into my life... Not that it needs to follow canon more or anything, but it would be nice to change it a bit.
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My interpretation is better anyway, because I have a beard.
My interpretation is better, I have it trimmed.
^ Note that, despite ZUN sinking that ship, it's managing to stay afloat... by turning Momiji into a tsundere. :V
Also, I want more Byakuren/Miko. I have this thing for hateshipping, see :V
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I have this thing for hateshipping, see :V
Then your ultimate fantasy must be Tenshi, seeing how even the two most laidback woman in Gensokyo hate her :V (Komaboat and Yu-Gap-ri)
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One of the main reasons I don' particularly like the MomijixAya is because Momiji is, 90% of the time, always the puppy and Aya just has her way, which also makes her look bad. It would certainly be nice to see a more fair take on the pairing.
In-game, what little describes her seems to imply she's more of a fierce guard-dog than a puppy. Didn't Double Spoiler strongly imply Momiji didn't really care for Aya? My biggest pet peeve was seeing her paired up with Aya as best buddies solely because they were in the same stage. Which, granted, is as good a reason as any given the lack of any dialog. Seeing her as a more serious and independent character than the fandom portrays her in DS was very welcomed. :)
Also, in regards to interpretations, I wear a hat. I win. >_>
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Also, in regards to interpretations, I wear a hat. I win. >_>
What are you even talking about, I win. Not only do I wear a pimpin' hat, but it also helps me relax.
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I HAVE GRADIENT HAIR SO FUCK ALL YOUR SHIT.
On-topic: More Remilia plz. Her little sis gets enough attention already. :C
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On-topic: More Remilia plz. Her little sis gets enough attention already. :C
Eeh? Isn't Remilia easily one of the most starred character in doujin? Seriously, I can positively say at least 75 % of every Touhou related thing has her.
Haha, joking. You can never have enough ~Charisma~
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Eeh? Isn't Remilia easily one of the most starred character in doujin? Seriously, I can positively say at least 75 % of every Touhou related thing has her.
Haha, joking. You can never have enough ~Charisma~
Yeah, but how much of it is Remi doing Remistuff instead of Flandre being latched on in some manner?
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Yeah, but how much of it is Remi doing Remistuff instead of Flandre being latched on in some manner?
Quite a lot, to be honest. Flandre is popular too though, no denying it.
Edit: Come to think of it, a really hard to find thing is Remi without Sakuya.
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Maybe I'm just having a perception bias since I find Remi more interesting. :V
On-topic: More Medicine Melancholy. I find it odd that despite frequently getting associated with Yuuka Yuuka shows up orders of magnitude more often in works.
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On-topic: More Medicine Melancholy. I find it odd that despite frequently getting associated with Yuuka Yuuka shows up orders of magnitude more often in works.
Am I the only one that doesn't get how everyone seems to love Medicine (me included) and wish for her to appear more... and she doesn't?
How come a character that makes everyone say ''she is so underrated, we need her more'' is so frequently ignored?
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Am I the only one that doesn't get how everyone seems to love Medicine (me included) and wish for her to appear more... and she doesn't?
How come a character that makes everyone say ''she is so underrated, we need her more'' is so frequently ignored?
I figure few people can think of any interesting interpretation of her. :V
TIME TO BLAZE SOME TRAILS.
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On Yuuka I think that's due to her having a PC-98 background and already being associated with the the original heroines, Medi doesn't really have any links with anyone really (potential with Alice,Hina and Kogasa and I heard her ending associates with Eintei) so it'll seem odd and out of place to include her often without much reason.
There isn't really that many interpretations of Medi I've seen only really Cute Doll, Doll who is slighty childish with her ideal of liberation, Yuuka's friend and one with her originally being the Su-San Body
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No psychopathic human murderer doll?
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Nope, oddly enough haven't seen anything like that, at most I've just seen that she just bad-mouths humans really.
Heck she isn't really shown much in the KKHTA which is known for pretty much making characters murderers.
Pretty weird considering her premise pretty much gives her potential to be shown as that.
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In-game, what little describes her seems to imply she's more of a fierce guard-dog than a puppy. Didn't Double Spoiler strongly imply Momiji didn't really care for Aya? My biggest pet peeve was seeing her paired up with Aya as best buddies solely because they were in the same stage. Which, granted, is as good a reason as any given the lack of any dialog. Seeing her as a more serious and independent character than the fandom portrays her in DS was very welcomed. :)
I think a big part of it has to do with the fact that people just saw them as friends when MoF came out. After DS, some still continued feeling that way even though it was basically stated they weren't overly fond of each other. I don't mind seeing them as friends myself; I just don't like seeing them as a pairing. It's just hard for me to think of them as disliking each other, even though that's how it really is :ohdear: But there are times when I am in strong opposition with this... It seems as though Momiji can't be around without Aya being involved in some way or another. That I don't like quite as much, so I do enjoy seeing her as more independent character like you said.
Pretty weird considering her premise pretty much gives her potential to be shown as that.
Isn't Yamame kinda like that? She can just about infect any human or thing she pleases, but she doesn't go about ruining people's lives. Because Yamame is just that awesome. Nope, no other reasons... none at all...
I want more Yamame in fanon in general... Anyone know of any good doujins for her? XD
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Anyone know of any good doujins for her? XD
Bump. Oh wait I'm not on Danbooru.
I'd like to see doujins featuring Yamame as more than just a side character as well though :D
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Am I the only one that doesn't get how everyone seems to love Medicine (me included) and wish for her to appear more... and she doesn't?
How come a character that makes everyone say ''she is so underrated, we need her more'' is so frequently ignored?
Probably because either the majority don't particularly want to see more of her, and just don't feel strongly enough about it to speak up, or the people who do want to see her aren't the ones making doujins.
I'd like to see s'more slice of life type snippets concerning Gensokyo given the lack of industry as small parts of a bigger work; one story I read had Marisa going to Alice to get her clothes repaired after losing a duel, which was a nice touch. ZUN has a couple of things like that, such as when Sakuya went to Kourindou for some teacups since there wasn't exactly a supermarket nearby, or Marisa getting her Hakkero fixed there, but you so rarely see it in fanon.
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It seems as though Momiji can't be around without Aya being involved in some way or another. That I don't like quite as much, so I do enjoy seeing her as more independent character like you said.
You and me both; anything that involves Momiji is almost guaranteed to involve Aya as well, and generally in a pairing (implied or explicit).
I like the way Katsugeki Kidan 2 and 3 represent their relationship, with Momiji being very wary and occasionally annoyed with yet somewhat respectful of Aya, and Aya largely taking pleasure in toying around with Momiji. It's refreshing to see Aya's advances being one-sided yet having the two characters nevertheless show some good chemistry. But even then, the three games are very inconsistent in their relationship (with the first depicting her as almost idolizing Aya...) and it's not canonical material either, at any rate.
Momiji playable in TH14, go go go ZUN! :D
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Momiji playable in TH14, go go go ZUN! :D
Oh god I hope Momiji won't turn into the new Mima! DX
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I hope Momiji doesn't lose her ears...
She was lacking them in SoPM for whatever reason.
Also armpits.
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I hope Momiji doesn't lose her ears...
She was lacking them in SoPM for whatever reason.
Maybe she can hide them, like Aya hides her wings.
I want to see more cold reactions from the older youkai (Aya, Yuuka, Yukari) in stories where a human character dies (particularly Reimu). They've been around for a while, I'm sure they've seen thousands of human associantes die (from old age or otherwise) by now; one would think they'd already be used to it and not pay too much attention when it happens. They aren't human, and have a different view of the world; seeing some more inhuman characteristics in them would be interesting, I think.
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Maybe she can hide them, like Aya hides her wings.
Now I know Aya's trick to wear her shirt with that wings coming out of her backs :P
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I hope Momiji doesn't lose her ears...
She was lacking them in SoPM for whatever reason.
Also armpits.
She never had wolf ears to begin with. If you look carefully at her in-game sprites, you'll see that she doesn't have them. Yes, she is shown with them in the 3 Mischievous Fairies manga, but all her other manga appearances do not show it. This means that ZUN never intended for her to have wolf ears in the first place. The artist of the fairies manga must've assumed that she has them and thus added them, and by the time ZUN realized this, it was too late to make changes. At least that's what I believe about the last part...
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ZUN has a strange thing with ears. Momiji is a white wolf tengu, and would presumably have wolf ears. However, Aya's ear went from round to pointy, and poor Orin has two pairs of ears.
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Momiji playable in TH14, go go go ZUN! :D
Or at least in the next PoDD/PoFV game... which I would think is the 15th. Only because it was 3, then 9, so next would be 15. Which really doesn't follow a pattern...
I hope Momiji doesn't lose her ears...
She was lacking them in SoPM for whatever reason.
Also armpits.
Regarding Momiji's ears, Momiji did not have them in MoF or in SoPM, however, there was another White Wolf Tengu WITH ears.
I have no idea what ZUN is about on this one... Do White Wolf Tengu have ears, or not? And if they do, what's up with Momiji?! I prefer ears to no ears. Same with the tail.
(http://i.imgur.com/yoIyC.png)
Regarding the armpits... indeed.
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I think ZUN just puts them on and off. Does she have them on her DS sprite?
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Many youkai have shapeshifting abilities. That pic from SoPM that Hakurou posted shows both a tengu with wolf ears and other without them. They probably just choose whenever to hide or show them. Same with Aya's wings.
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Aya's wings definitely materialize and dematerialize at will, otherwise her shirts would all have to have a pair of giant slits in the back, which would be a real pain to launder. I'd like to see pretty much any story feature the wings coming and going.
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(http://i.imgur.com/FkmP9.png)
I guess this now needs an update that includes Wild and Horny Hermit and Faily Wars.
(Don't get me wrong, I love Aya with wings too, but...)
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(http://i.imgur.com/FkmP9.png)
I guess this now needs an update that includes Wild and Horny Hermit and Faily Wars.
(Don't get me wrong, I love Aya with wings too, but...)
B-But... Uuu~ ;___; I love those crow wings...
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I love her wings too. They're fluffy and cute. Personally I do not care if they are ambiguously canonical at best, just as long as we know the status of her wings in canon. I would say I wanted more of her wings in fandom, but the fandom already seems to like them, so no worries on that front.
Rather, what I would like to see more is more of Aya, Hatate, and Momizi in the Kourindou Tengu Costume (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:084.jpg). (With wings, 'cause why the hell not?)
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Then your ultimate fantasy must be Tenshi, seeing how even the two most laidback woman in Gensokyo hate her :V (Komaboat and Yu-Gap-ri)
I think she's the only Touhoe EVERYONE hates, and that's alright.
Watch out for Tenshi! She's a dick!
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Rather, what I would like to see more is more of Aya, Hatate, and Momizi in the Kourindou Tengu Costume (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/File:084.jpg). (With wings, 'cause why the hell not?)
It's... So pretty :'D
I think she's the only Touhoe EVERYONE hates, and that's alright.
Pissing off the ever so calm and relaxed Komachi was quite a feat! (same goes for Yukari)
She's an awesome dick. I wish I could see moar Tenshi.
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I wonder if the ear/wing thing is more or less ZUN not specifying how the artists he gets to help with the books should draw characters. Heck, Aya appeared in Bohemian Archive with the wings even before she appeared in her first game without. Don't know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Though I like to think that Momiji's ears pop out when she's mad. She's got no reason to be angry in the two articles (the one has her playing shogi and the other she's listening to Kanako). But she's stuck doing stuff in the manga pic, while Aya is just sitting there with her sake. Of course, that's just my own silly headcanon.
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I wanna see more of Miko overall. I've seen some for Futo, Seiga, Yoshika, Kyouko, but, I haven't seen anything about Miko.
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I think ZUN just puts them on and off. Does she have them on her DS sprite?
Nope.
(http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/8/8d/Th125SC024.jpg)
I agree that she looks weird without ears. Probably has to do with seeing her with them in fandom for so long that it's hard to imagine her without it...
I wanna see more of Miko overall. I've seen some for Futo, Seiga, Yoshika, Kyouko, but, I haven't seen anything about Miko.
Speaking of which, I noticed that Seiga and Yoshika usually aren't put together with Miko, Tojiko, and Futo in fan works. In fact, the latter three don't get put together with other characters that much. I have a feeling that it has to do with them being this series's version of real-life characters that people find them hard to interact with fictional ones...
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Yeah weirdly we don't see much of them... It may be because of that, indeed.
Still, they have so much potential! Seiga's evilness isn't exploited enough! And Miko/Byaku/Kanako rivalry should be shown way more in fanon, even though they get along quite a lot.
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ZUN probably introduced Seiga as a legitimately wicked hermit in order to write shenanigans, so I think it's likely that as Chara☆Mel issues are released and WaHH chapters with more Seiga come out it's likely we'll get to see more of her in general (and consequently more fanworks). For ZUN, he's laying on her malicious traits fairly thick, considering all of her appearances (which are already plentiful) are about stirring up trouble. He's also given her enough unique personality and character (even her ability, which is basically mischief-inducing itself) that it won't feel boring having her as a recurring "villain". Human friendship level: Loves humans! Interested in material things? Nope!
read: i like seiga she is delicious and i am happy zun will probably write more with her
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Speaking of which, I noticed that Seiga and Yoshika usually aren't put together with Miko, Tojiko, and Futo in fan works. In fact, the latter three don't get put together with other characters that much. I have a feeling that it has to do with them being this series's version of real-life characters that people find them hard to interact with fictional ones...
Well, Seiga seems to not really care about Miko or the other two at all (at least according to Akyuu; in Seiga's article she wrote: "Although (Seiga) arrived in Gensokyo along with Toyosatomimi no Miko and Mononobe no Futo, no matter how you look at it there is no sense of camaraderie between them").
I'd really like to see a developed backstory for Seiga. We have some canon info on her past, but seeing it expanded would be nice.
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In my case, I really wish to see more doujins which portray some actual hate between Mokou and Kaguya, or doujins that actually EXPLAIN how the relationship between them softened up. As it is rather disturbing to have nearly every doujin that's about the immortals involve random drugging and stripping.
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Well, Seiga seems to not really care about Miko or the other two at all (at least according to Akyuu; in Seiga's article she wrote: "Although (Seiga) arrived in Gensokyo along with Toyosatomimi no Miko and Mononobe no Futo, no matter how you look at it there is no sense of camaraderie between them").
I'd really like to see a developed backstory for Seiga. We have some canon info on her past, but seeing it expanded would be nice.
Yeah, I think it's established in canon that Seiga isn't really part of their group at all. She's a free agent.
I don't think her backstory would be all that interesting though. She wanted to become a hermit, so she did. And now she's a hermit. But eeevil~ I'm more curious about what she's gonna do from here on out . Wait, I take that back. What the heck was she doing for the 1000+ years before Miko woke up? Surely she didn't lock herself in the mausoleum?
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Seiga I think taught Miko taoism and she became depressed and pretended to die then she ran away and got married.
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In my case, I really wish to see more doujins which portray some actual hate between Mokou and Kaguya, or doujins that actually EXPLAIN how the relationship between them softened up. As it is rather disturbing to have nearly every doujin that's about the immortals involve random drugging and stripping.
Yeah, it would really be nice to see how their relationship became what it is from a more reasonable point of view. There was one doujin I read about them called Undying (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Water_Cushion#Undying_.282008-12-29.29) that portrayed the hate and, in the end, the more ''friendly'' side. It isn't necessarily explained though. Still pretty great~ (Partial nudity warning, not the website, but the doujin itself)
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What the heck was she doing for the 1000+ years before Miko woke up? Surely she didn't lock herself in the mausoleum?
I don't think she did; the article about a zombie (Yoshika) appearing in Myouren's cemetery and Rin coming to talk to it is from 2009, and I think 10D happens in 2011.
Seiga I think taught Miko taoism and she became depressed and pretended to die then she ran away and got married.
The order of events is wrong. She become interested in taoism after her father abandoned her, she later married into the Kaku family, got depressed because she wouldn't be able to be a hermit while married, ran away after 8 years, and after an unknown amount of time she went to Japan and taught Miko taoism.
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read: i like seiga she is delicious and i am happy zun will probably write more with her
She certainly is!
Then again, most people won't like the idea of *gasps, thunder in the background* AN EVIL CHARACTER!!! She's just misunderstood! Have some bubbly SeigaXYoshika! (Which, admittedly, is pretty darn cute)
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I imagine Seiga as being mischievous like in
"Futo-chan Raper"
where she has fun with Futo and Sanae.
I wanna see more of the back stories in fandom. It's always fun to see how people imagine it.
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I imagine Seiga as being mischievous like in "Futo-chan Raper"
where she has fun with Futo and Sanae.
I wanna see more of the back stories in fandom. It's always fun to see how people imagine it.
I read that one yesterday, it was pretty crazy xD. Mischevious Seiga is fine too :3 So is evil Seiga... I just don't want to see such a perfect character for villainous acts (may it be evil or slightly mischevious) turned into a pile of fluffy ''I luv everyone!''.
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Seiga I think taught Miko taoism and she became depressed and pretended to die then she ran away and got married.
Actually, within ZUN's canon, Seiga was already married, but was trapped in her position of marriage, unable to do what she wanted, such as study Taoism, so she faked her own death to free herself~
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Actually, within ZUN's canon, Seiga was already married, but was trapped in her position of marriage, unable to do what she wanted, such as study Taoism, so she faked her own death to free herself~
Yep!~ Later on, she and Miko tested non-permanent death on Futo and did the same to all of them.
What I want to see (fandom or canon): Yoshika's ''Creation''. Someone make it happen ;-;
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What I want to see (fandom or canon): Yoshika's ''Creation''. Someone make it happen ;-;
Go onto Danbooru and search for eromame.
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Go onto Danbooru and search for eromame.
But isn't he the one who likes to draw lesbianism and licking? :ohdear:
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But isn't he the one who likes to draw lesbianism and licking? :ohdear:
Isn't that a wonderful introduction to a new artist?
''You know Yoshika's creation? Look up that guy.''
''He does lesbianism and licking too!''
Still, Yoshika is too adorable for me to back off because of that.
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But isn't he the one who likes to draw lesbianism and licking? :ohdear:
nothings wrong with lesbian 2hus
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But isn't he the one who likes to draw lesbianism and licking? :ohdear:
...Do you realize how little that narrows down the list of Toho fanartists? :getdown:
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...Do you realize how little that narrows down the list of Toho fanartists? :getdown:
I did just now... and am getting a good laugh off it :V
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...Do you realize how little that narrows down the list of Toho fanartists? :getdown:
Hah, true xD
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Eh, the way I see it, some folks just aren't into that sort of thing. (Such as myself.)
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Eh, the way I see it, some folks just aren't into that sort of thing. (Such as myself.)
I'm not into it either. I try to avoid it >_>
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I don't find it eotic, I just find it cute :3
But if it's explict then it would most probably be a no-no.
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Likewise.
Anyway. Yoshika + post-it notes.
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nothings wrong with lesbian 2hus
...Do you realize how little that narrows down the list of Toho fanartists? :getdown:
Hah, true xD
You three are like MotK's version of Team ⑨. My head hurts.
But since yuri got brought up, I would actually like to see less of it, because most doujin artists simply cannot depict it without making some terrible, contrived plot whose sole purpose is to prop up a pairing. Very, very seldom does the "intimacy" happen incidental to the story, rather than rushed dialogue and rushed-er plot. Fie on that mess. I don't care to know who put what body part where if you cannot, as a writer or an artist, also show us what's happening inside their minds.
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/me Is currently trying to process that.
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I've only ever encountered the explicit sort, which pretty much soured the whole genre to me. (I was neutral to it back in the day.)
And when I say soured it, I mean it burned down the fields with a nuclear bomb, poisoned the groundwater with mercury, cyanide, and all that good stuff, and then salted the earth just to be sure.
Ninja Edit: Agreeing with Ammy here, there could definitely stand to be less yuri.
Like I always say, if you can't do something right, then don't do it at all. Take a few years practicing before you jump into something.
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Anyway. Yoshika + post-it notes.
Yoshika talking-ofudas = Meiling's talking-hat.
You three are like MotK's version of Team ⑨. My head hurts.
But since yuri got brought up, I would actually like to see less of it, because most doujin artists simply cannot depict it without making some terrible, contrived plot whose sole purpose is to prop up a pairing. Very, very seldom does the "intimacy" happen incidental to the story, rather than rushed dialogue and rushed-er plot. Fie on that mess. I don't care to know who put what body part where if you cannot, as a writer or an artist, also show us what's happening inside their minds.
Ow. Team (9)?
I agree though, 95 % of the time it's involved, it's mostly just porn, not any plot of interesting story at all. It's bland and boring. That rare 5% is good, but oh so damn rare.
Also I usually read doujins using Dabooru, that's kind of why I find a lot of Yuri accidentally. And it was meant as a joke >_>
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You three are like MotK's version of Team ⑨. My head hurts.
I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK.
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You three are like MotK's version of Team ⑨. My head hurts.
We'd make a great team 9. I would be the stupidest though...
Actually I do kinda agree with you there. Artist shouldn't rush the plots and such. Also too much hentai of it kills me a lityle inside...
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We'd make a great team 9. I would be the stupidest though...
We totally need to make that. Dibs on Mystia/Rumia!
Speaking of which, we need more of team (9), Cirno gets all the spotlight time. It's getting... redundant >_>
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What about teh 3 fairies?
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I actually agree on the rest of team 9 getting screentime.
There's hardly any fangames where a member of the team who isn't Cirno gets to lead.
There's one or two for Wriggle though, but hardly any for Dai, Mysty, and Rumia.
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I actually agree on the rest of team 9 getting screentime.
There's hardly any fangames where a member of the team who isn't Cirno gets to lead.
There's one or two for Wriggle though, but hardly any for Dai, Mysty, and Rumia.
Yeah, Rumia is sliiightly more popular in games while Mystia is sliiiightly more popular in doujins. Dai appears only when Cirno is around. I wish she'd be, y'know, more than just a supporting character to Cirno >_>
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But since yuri got brought up, I would actually like to see less of it, because most doujin artists simply cannot depict it without making some terrible, contrived plot whose sole purpose is to prop up a pairing. Very, very seldom does the "intimacy" happen incidental to the story, rather than rushed dialogue and rushed-er plot. Fie on that mess. I don't care to know who put what body part where if you cannot, as a writer or an artist, also show us what's happening inside their minds.
This is exactly what I would like to see too. I know it's been done in writing before (by you if by no one else, Ammy), so I would love to see this done in doujin form, in particular. And I would like to see more than one relationship like this in the same work! That's a dynamic I'd not be averse to seeing: A Touhou character as the lead, with one female lover and one female friend, and neither relationship is treated (by the narrator) as less important to her than the other.
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Yeah, Rumia is sliiightly more popular in games while Mystia is sliiiightly more popular in doujins. Dai appears only when Cirno is around. I wish she'd be, y'know, more than just a supporting character to Cirno >_>
Might as well add Koakuma into that as well since she is most of the time a supporting character to Patchy.
On Dai, well without Cirno she's kinda just like nameless fairy X well, it would be interesting to see what writers do with a Daiyousei with no Cirno, since pretty much most of her character traits come from her being a supporting character to Cirno.
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Well normally she's got a drive that revolves around protecting her.
So perhaps a Zelda-esque thing where someone captures Cirno for the lulz, and it's completely out of season for Mysty, Wriggle, and Rumia to help, that means that only Dai can take the lead and Be The Hero. (thus reversing the dynamic, and relegating Cirno to supporting.)
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Well normally she's got a drive that revolves around protecting her.
So perhaps a Zelda-esque thing where someone captures Cirno for the lulz, and it's completely out of season for Mysty, Wriggle, and Rumia to help, that means that only Dai can take the lead and Be The Hero. (thus reversing the dynamic, and relegating Cirno to supporting.)
Actually, there is a Rumia LoZ game called Legend of Twilight. I have no idea what the plot is, because it's in Japanese, so I'm not sure how suited Rumia is for the role. But it does exist! I would like a Daiyousei or Koakuma *insert basically anything* as well. Koakuma has quite a few doujins though. Dai has just about nothing in that field...
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It's not so bad, I've gotten to the third dungeon in it.
She seems pretty neutral towards the whole thing, and seems pretty happy to actually be on an adventure that doesn't end in her getting danmaku'd in the face for once.
I do agree that it could use a translation patch though.
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I agree with Koakuma, but she's sometime depicted with a bit of personality too, I've seen it quite a few time.
I have yet to see Dai as being something else than the ''Somewhat shy but friendly fairy who is Cirno's friend and acts as the mature older sister''
Seriously. That's the ONLY thing Dai is.
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There was this one doujin staring Daiyousei. Cirno started being a brat so Daiyousei decided to beat her but that didn't work so Daiyousei seeked advice and became a giant and Gensokyo almost Apocalypsed. It was pretty interesting.
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There was this one doujin staring Daiyousei. Cirno started being a brat so Daiyousei decided to beat her but that didn't work so Daiyousei seeked advice and became a giant and Gensokyo almost Apocalypsed. It was pretty interesting.
That's probably the kind of thing that makes more sense in context... right?
Also I think this thread pretty much has every character named except Marisa and Reimu. Because no one is stupid enough to say ''I want to see more Reimu, she never appears in anything!''
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Then again, most people won't like the idea of *gasps, thunder in the background* AN EVIL CHARACTER!!! She's just misunderstood! Have some bubbly SeigaXYoshika! (Which, admittedly, is pretty darn cute)
Seiga is pretty much as blatantly straightforward as you can get. If you misunderstand she'd probably correct you on how malicious she is.
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Seiga is pretty much as blatantly straightforward as you can get. If you misunderstand she'd probably correct you on how malicious she is.
Right? That's exactly why it kinda annoys me when people try to make Seiga ''a good girl''. She couldn't be more proud of being a wicked hermit, it's not even remotely ambiguous.
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Oh that's what you meant. Whoops.
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Oh that's what you meant. Whoops.
...Oh, that's what you meant. Yeah, I was quoting an imaginary Seiga fan. Which isn't so imaginary, considering I've argued countless time over ''Seiga is totally not evil!'', everything trying to point out that she is >_>
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Costumes Swaps! (http://youtu.be/is2Ma-CHJKA)
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Costumes Swaps! (http://youtu.be/is2Ma-CHJKA)
HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG.
This is so adorable and amazing. :*
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On that note, more Alice being Gensokyo's resident fashion guru.
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I wanna see more hair makeover Sakuya (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1o7CSAen6c)
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Right? That's exactly why it kinda annoys me when people try to make Seiga ''a good girl''. She couldn't be more proud of being a wicked hermit, it's not even remotely ambiguous.
To be fair, she could have written "Wicked Hermit" on her business card, but she didn't.
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I want more of the Rinnosuke from Touhou Tag Dream.
The one that gets random ''INSPIRATION!!!'' and makes awesome costumes in less than a nano-second. That Rin-Rin is a glorious Rin-Rin.
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(http://i.imgur.com/FkmP9.png)
I guess this now needs an update that includes Wild and Horny Hermit and Faily Wars.
(Don't get me wrong, I love Aya with wings too, but...)
I guess this is kind of old, but I just noticed that Aya and Hatate both have wings on the cover of SoPM. Well, the inside flap of the book jacket anyway.
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i want more rin in the art
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now that I've thought about it, one of the things I want to see more is Ran with a personality outside of the rest of the Yakumo clan; most of the time her character is tied to Yukari and/or Chen and I think we don't see enough characteristics of her own.
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I guess this is kind of old, but I just noticed that Aya and Hatate both have wings on the cover of SoPM. Well, the inside flap of the book jacket anyway.
Mind pointing it out? Because I can't find it on the wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Category:Symposium_of_Post-mysticism_Images).
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(http://i.imgur.com/18tTx.jpg)
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This is exactly what I would like to see too. I know it's been done in writing before (by you if by no one else, Ammy), so I would love to see this done in doujin form, in particular.
For those curious, this is what Ruro's talking about (http://tengukami.blogspot.com/2010/02/permission.html) (NSFW, by the way). I wrote this pretty much due to a discussion that started in the off-topic forum about Touhou yuri. Basically, a lot of people weren't getting the difference between porn and erotica - unfortunate, but you can hardly blame folks when most Touhou yuri is straight-up porn. So I decided to write a story demonstrating what erotica, as opposed to porn, is. As an added bonus, I also decided to use a pairing I hadn't seen before or since (though I'm sure it exists elsewhere).
In essence, the difference between the two is that in porn, the story is just filler placed around sex scenes, which describe the physical mechanics of the act. In erotica, the sex is a part of the story, and places greater focus on what's going on inside the minds of those involved during the act.
I haven't written any Touhou erotica before (unless you count the story about Cirno and the table corner) or since, but I might do.
On that note, I agree with Ruro that I would really love to see more complex relationships between the girls - crushes, girlfriends, drinking buddies, spouses - that reflects a wider spectrum than simply allies, enemies, and booty calls.
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unless you count the story about Cirno and the table corner
wutdafuq
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wutdafuq
Oh wow, I wasn't the only one who noticed that.
I would really love to see more complex relationships between the girls - crushes, girlfriends, drinking buddies, spouses - that reflects a wider spectrum than simply allies, enemies, and booty calls.
I completely agree, even if it screws up the whole ''Nobody is classified as something else than Ally Who You'll Fight, Enemy You Will Drink Tea With and Random Encounter.'' canon thing, it can only do good to use different types of relationships.
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wutdafuq
Oh wow, I wasn't the only one who noticed that.
Here you go (http://tengukami.blogspot.com/2009/11/down-on-corner.html) (again, NSFW). This story was inspired by the image you see with the story, which someone on IRC posted. Suikama made a VN version of the story, too (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5728.0). Fun times.
This is also part of what others have brought up about Cirno - that she isn't stupid so much as childish, incurious and overconfident. I love these depictions so much more than "duhhh Cirno is so stupid omg look she's trying to eat a tablecloth lol stoopid fairy".
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Hahaha this is brilliant. Only issue it leaves in my head is marisa gave cirno 'A' broom which she used and now shes gonna go show mystia... Its probably gonna work its way around the whole 9 team. And then gensokyo is going to need anti STD campaigns about not sharing your broomstick.
This comment is the best.
I'm gonna go read more of your stories, Ammy. They're well written.
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Here you go (http://tengukami.blogspot.com/2009/11/down-on-corner.html) (again, NSFW). This story was inspired by the image you see with the story, which someone on IRC posted. Suikama made a VN version of the story, too (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=5728.0). Fun times.
...
...
...
DAT FACIAL EXPRESSION. :colonveeplusalpha:
Mr. Tengukami, I cannot tell whether you're brilliant or just insane/scary at times.
EDIT: DAT REIMUFACE. :getdown:
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(http://i.imgur.com/18tTx.jpg)
Rad, now I can add it to my chart! BAiJR was getting lonely.
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- Utsuho being a silly birdbrain, and being adorable.
How about this (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=24994913) or this (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=24591699)?
There's also the thing in the following link but it's definitively [nsfw]http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=21303496[/nsfw] for visible reason (although no nudity). ^^;;;
Still, it might fit what you're looing for.
I just laughed at how extreme the changes to her attacks were.
In MoF, we got forgotten rituals to summon the strength of her gods and create miracles! With star-shaped BS danmaku! That was epic.
In SA, we get RICE! And FRUITS! And THE ALPHABET! (Which instantly makes be think of soup)
So regarding the topic, I'd love to see Sanae's sudden obsession with food explained. (Maybe she got on a diet and went insane?)
Maybe it's related to sacrifices for the gods? Just a guess here.
I swear, after clearing all scenarios in a single day (personal challenge), I started to talk like Yukari.
Friend calling on the phone: So what are you doing?
Me: As the silver spoon is going through a river of gold, silly you, can't you see the ground is like a cloud?
Friend: ...What is wrong with you?
Me: I DON'T KNOW!
*actual real life moment*
Awesome! X D
Personally I'd like to see some delinquent Chen. I'm not sure why it's become standard to think of her as adorable and helpless when her character design and role kind of imply that she's a rebellious stray who doesn't like following orders. She's the rascally kid her doesn't listen to her "parents", or when she does she follows the letter but not the spirit. She's the stray cat who comes back to the house just to eat your food and then disappears again. Well, that's just the image of her I have in my head after playing the games and reading the stuff, so I'd like to see that pop up in the fandom every so often.
Maybe you would like this (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=779692), this (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=2445327) or this (http://tinypic.com/r/2564phu/6)? Maybe not? X D
Also, while not delinquent, perhaps you would like that Chen (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=19595747).
I'm now sure some fans will make some sort of crazy insane conspiracy on how Yoshika is Meiling's lost sister/mother/Meiling herself who died and that it explains the similarities.
There's a tag at pixiv called "3ボス中華系" (roughly, "Third boss China group) that designate the Yoshika and Meiling duo.
Perhaps something like that will come up eventually.
Costumes Swaps! (http://youtu.be/is2Ma-CHJKA)
Look at this (http://tinypic.com/r/jkftsi/6), this (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=24742071)and this (http://tinypic.com/r/uos9c/6). ^^
Actually, at pixiv, there is the "衣装チェンジ" tag (Clothe change).
If you pair it with the touhou tag, you might be able to find stuff that you like. ^^
Anyway, enough comments on what other have posted.
Those are narrow stuff but, among the things I would like to see done are
Yukari using that thing (http://www.pojo.com/magic/COTD/2012/Sept/3.shtml) : P
and Tewi using the Usagi Dama (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Manga/DragonBall)! Bonus points if Reisen is there too! : P
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this (http://tinypic.com/r/2564phu/6)?
That picture went from nice to awesome when I noticed the gap-bath.
Speaking of which, more Yukari gap shenanigans! They're always hilarious... To me at least.
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After talking with Matsy today, I have come to realize there is one thing I'd like to see more of in fandom: hostile Komeiji sisters, much more irritable towards each other than they are in canon, and trading insults back and forth.
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After talking with Matsy today, I have come to realize there is one thing I'd like to see more of in fandom: hostile Komeiji sisters, much more irritable towards each other than they are in canon, and trading insults back and forth.
*opens mouth to object*
Wait... That would be absolutely awesome. :o Unconventional, but very original.
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I'd kinda like to see more fangames like the Ace Attorney series. Aside from the two or three we already have out there.
Preferably with other protagonists than just Aya. Maybe an Investigations spinoff with Remi and Sakuya as the leads.
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I wish there were more Touhou, Kuroshitsuji crossovers.
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What I'd like to see more in Touhou fan works:
- The inhuman/monstrous side of Touhou characters. Remember that the vast majority of Touhou characters are, you know, monsters and demons. They're not like you and I. They're not human at all. They're supposed to mysterious, eerie and alien. And it is this supernatural, beastly side that absolutely captivates me.
I take great enjoyment out of Touhou characters showing off monstrous, 'true' forms, using 'freaky powers' related to their species and abilities, exhibiting animalistic character traits and tics alongside their human ones and exploiting their innocent/alluring human guise to lure in victims. I love it when artists and writers point out how unearthly youkai act compared to humans, how their appearance is so unnatural (e.g. something off about their looks, beautiful to an impossible degree). I'd also love to see what goes through a youkai's mind when it sees a human. Is it curious? Is it indifferent? Is it smug? Or is it ravenously hungry?
We see a lot of the civilized youkai in works, but little of the true feral youkai. I'd love to read how a youkai slowly develops both physically and mentally from a man-eating, feral monster into an intelligent, whimsical, psuedo-human. There's tons of origin stories for the SDM, the Yakumos, the Moriyas, the Myourens etc. but there are so few on the smaller characters, like Wriggle or Letty. How did they come into being, and how did they grow into what they are today? What lessons did they have to learn to become more than just animals, and how?
- Linked with the above, more stories of humans becoming youkai/vampires/ghosts/whatever. And less "whee I'mma flyin' loli" and more "oh my fuck why do I wonder what my neighbor's pancreas tastes like". I want to see what goes on in their head as new instincts settle in and they slowly realize they aren't human anymore. How did they change anyway? Extreme emotional stress, enormous spite, a curse, an infection/possession from another youkai, prolonged exposure to supernatural activity, a deliberate ritual. Anything is possible, and it's all interesting in their own way.
I like seeing people becoming something vastly different, vastly inhuman. A form of corruption, or transhumanism. Point is, when they turn, what do they experience? How much self-control do they have? What do they decide to do? They can try and hide the fact, remaining among their human friends despite the risks. They can give in and indulge in the power and hunger. Or they can retreat from human settlements and seek a new life.
It doesn't have to be entirely about hunger for human flesh either. The problem can also be inherent malevolence against humans, or a need to cause terror and chaos to get the faith to fuel one's supernatural existence. A human turned youkai would need to go to extremes to keep existing in this belief and faith driven form.
In the case of ghosts, it's about people having to realize and coming to terms with the fact they are dead. They wouldn't have the bloodthirty aspects of their youkai counterparts, though ghosts could be vengeful enough still cause trouble. They'll also have to get used to a new life and see what they should do now. Who would they contact in this state? How can they make contact in this state?
This could be a great approach for certain origin stories, or for OCs. Or you can see what happens when one of the current human characters falls victims to this. Keine is already half youkai, so what's it like if she gives into her more feral side? And what if Marisa succeeds in becoming a youkai magician, but proceeds to take a page from classic fairy tale witches?
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Are there tons of origin stories for the Yakumo/SDM/Moriya? I think I've only ever found one.
In any case: I concur with most of what you said, minus the darker-and-grittier part.
I've always liked the idea of finding a flawless-looking youkai vaguely disturbing rather than alluring, ? la the uncanny valley.
Depending on how it's done, I can really enjoy depictions of characters where they have similar traits or behaviours to whatever animal or what-have-you they're based on, like wolf Tengu acting in a pack with a clear heirarchy.
Seeing the perspective of someone with alien morals and thought processes is also often really interesting, if the writer can pull it off.
On the other hand, I rarely enjoy works that portray the characters as if the civil humanoid face is just a disguise hiding a eldritch horror that will eat your face if it gets the chance, especially if the author insists this is what Gensokyo is truly like; arguing that the characters are youkai and thus are much darker than portrayed is like arguing that all modern elves are actually demon fey that abduct children and replace them with changlings, and any semblance of kindness or likability on their part is a glamour.
I have however enjoyed works that meet half-way, such as stories where the youkai are born/start beastial but gain wisdom and lose the monstrosity with age, or where they must learn how to suppress the base instincts.
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Are there tons of origin stories for the Yakumo/SDM/Moriya? I think I've only ever found one.
I've found at least three for each SDM member, two for Yukari/Yuyuko and two or three for the Moriyas. All doujins. It's safe to say these groups get a lot of attention.
In any case: I concur with most of what you said, minus the darker-and-grittier part.
Maybe I've went a bit too far on the dark stuff. Never the less I'd like to see these unearthly interpretations more.
I've always liked the idea of finding a flawless-looking youkai vaguely disturbing rather than alluring, ? la the uncanny valley.
thatwasthepoint.jpg
Depending on how it's done, I can really enjoy depictions of characters where they have similar traits or behaviours to whatever animal or what-have-you they're based on, like wolf Tengu acting in a pack with a clear heirarchy.
Seeing the perspective of someone with alien morals and thought processes is also often really interesting, if the writer can pull it off.
Oh yes, definitely, to both of those. Since a lot of youkai are born and raised in entirely different circumstances as humans, as well as having their own instincts, it's not unreasonable to think they experience the world around them in a vastly different manner than humans. They could also have a different view on life and death, due to the longevity and durability of youkai.
On the other hand, I rarely enjoy works that portray the characters as if the civil humanoid face is just a disguise hiding a eldritch horror that will eat your face if it gets the chance, especially if the author insists this is what Gensokyo is truly like; arguing that the characters are youkai and thus are much darker than portrayed is like arguing that all modern elves are actually demon fey that abduct children and replace them with changlings, and any semblance of kindness or likability on their part is a glamour.
I can imagine that would not sit well if it applied to all the supernatural characters. I believe only the ones living in the wild and the loner-ish youkai could have this eldritch feel to them (Rumia, Wriggle, Letty, Medicine, Parsee, Yuuka, maybe Yukari and Yamame). The more social species, like kappa, tengu, earth/moon bunnies and oni, would be more 'human'. Same goes for youkai who came into existence or were raised in more 'urban' environments, so to speak, or have gained a closer relationship with humans (the Myouren youkai). And of course, one would be hard-pressed to see the fairies as anything but childlike and innocent.
I have however enjoyed works that meet half-way, such as stories where the youkai are born/start beastial but gain wisdom and lose the monstrosity with age, or where they must learn how to suppress the base instincts.
This is exactly what I'm looking for here. I really think this subject isn't explored enough. I'd love to see more fics or doujins about it~
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I really like the "youkai are not like humans" thing, but I don't particularly like your specific examples. In a sense, they're too human? "Coming to terms with you urges" or "suppressing your instincts" or "gaining wisdom with age" all imply that they're basically human but with different needs or desires. Youkai aren't just people who like the taste of human flesh. Nor are they just people who look down on humans as food. Even the eldritch abomination thing kind of ignores what a youkai is supposed to be.
Something I picked up on a while ago and was recently emphasized by SOPM is that youkai are defined by some "purpose". They fill a need in humanity. They're the explanation for a strange phenomenon, or the source of an irrational fear. An echo on a mountain, a fear of the darkness. And when they lose that purpose, they die. They have "strong bodies, but weak spirits". Murasa needs to keep trying to drown people because that's the only way she can exist. That's all she is. She has nothing against humans, and even likes to talk to them, but the second she even entertains the idea of not drowning people she loses all reason to live. Youkai are deathly afraid of possession by evil spirits despite such a thing never happening, because youkai simply cannot survive a change of motivation. They are a motivation. They are the embodiment of a purpose. They don't necessarily think about this consciously, because it's just so ingrained in what they are.
So therefore, the trick to writing a youkai is to find its purpose. Look at what makes them tick, literally. The task they can't give up on, the belief they can't question. The reason for their existence. Because everything they do will revolve around that, one way or another.
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Clarste pretty much nailed it. ZUN only started writing this definition of youkai some time after IN, so many earlier youkai are pretty much just magical people based on myths. Most of ZUN's current characters that are being fleshed out are essentially humans, because they're now the ones that have the ability to change and develop. Youkai usually being really old and being born from a purpose is a nice way to excuse youkai in that now you can introduce them already developed. This can sort of get around the whole "why haven't I seen this youkai before if they're so influential" problem.
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I really like the "youkai are not like humans" thing, but I don't particularly like your specific examples. In a sense, they're too human? "Coming to terms with you urges" or "suppressing your instincts" or "gaining wisdom with age" all imply that they're basically human but with different needs or desires. Youkai aren't just people who like the taste of human flesh. Nor are they just people who look down on humans as food. Even the eldritch abomination thing kind of ignores what a youkai is supposed to be.
I mention those human traits because in current Gensokyo culture, youkai need to be like that or else be exterminated. They're forced to become more human to live alongside humans in a more peaceful manner.
That, and certain youkai evolve in a way that makes them gain something more akin to human intelligence (tanuki, kitsune etc.).
At least, that's what I was initially going for here.
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I wouldn't say need as much as the wiser youkai made it that way. In this type of environment, it is best if they don't try to exterminate all the humans.
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Wanna know what I'd love to see more in Touhou fandom? (Probably not but d'oh well.) I wanna see more of the Hakurei Shrine Maiden, you know the supposed previous one that originated from a MUGEN character. That shrine maiden I respect, she solves all her issues with her fists and actually exterminates Youkai. What does Reimu do? Make up rules that pretty much only she can win at and boss everyone around, and also have an extremely annoying plot armor that pretty much makes her impervious to everything.
I'd also love to see more of the Win 98 characters, you know Shingyoku, Sariel, Yuugen Magaan, Kikuuri, Konngara, Genji etc etc and so forth. Barely anyone's touched them ever in, well any of the works I've seen so it would be nice to see what the fanon can make out of these stepping stones of Touhou.
Another thing that I'd wish to see more of is, well a better system to scale the supposed "power levels" of the Touhous. A good, and common example of this would be Meiling and Sakuya, Meiling being the, pretty much only Touhou that fights hand to hand and uses brute force seems to be the punching bag of everyone else just because Danmaku and ranged combat isn't her thing. In all honesty she'd probably be able to whoop anyone's behind into next week given the fact that she seems to have relations with the dragons. As we all know, the dragons are the highest power in Gensokyo (if memory serves correctly)
Lastly, less OP Mokou and Kaguya and more immortality =/= massive physical strength and durability. If anything the more they die the less durable they should become. (In the games they actually die after every spell card they use, they die to Danmaku, which is NON lethal, Dai even lasts longer then those two, and she's just a fairy!)
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In the games they actually die after every spell card they use
Pretty sure that's just limited to Mokou.
I want to say that her body is frail from constant abuse, but I don't know how the elixir works when it comes to that sort of thing...
Speaking of which, if she lost a limb, would it just reattach itself, or would it regrow?
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I reckon if she had the limb on hand she could stick it to the missing place and it'd re-attatch. Otherwise if it were blow into dust or something she'd probably grow a new one.
Anyone know any Yuuka doujins were she isn't ridiculously violent, I have read some but I'd like to know if there are a lot more.
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Anyone know any Yuuka doujins were she isn't ridiculously violent, I have read some but I'd like to know if there are a lot more.
Try the entire Yuuka Kazmi's Sunflower Field (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yuka_Kazami%27s_Sunflower_Field) anthology thing. It has quite a few of what you're looking for. Some of the comics are... odd. No nudity or yuri, just odd.
Aside from that, I really loved Death Wish Syndrome (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Somehow_Alive#Death_Wish_Syndrome_.282010-03-14.29). Yuuka's a little synical, but not batshit insane. It's actually kinda sad, and more about Mokou than Yuuka. And how could I have possibly forgotten Nightbug in FLowerland (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ANGELTYPE#Nightbug_and_Flowerland_.282007-04-22.29)? It's about both Wriggle and Yuuka. Pretty hilarious and the art is adorable~
These are all rather short though. Nothing too lengthy.
EDIT: Added one more thing.
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What does Reimu do? Make up rules that pretty much only she can win at and boss everyone around, and also have an extremely annoying plot armor that pretty much makes her impervious to everything.
that isn't right at all though
I'd also love to see more of the Win 98 characters, you know Shingyoku, Sariel, Yuugen Magaan, Kikuuri, Konngara, Genji etc etc and so forth. Barely anyone's touched them ever in, well any of the works I've seen so it would be nice to see what the fanon can make out of these stepping stones of Touhou.
Aside from Genji, this is probably because they literally have no personalities or attributes. Might as well just throw in original characters.
Another thing that I'd wish to see more of is, well a better system to scale the supposed "power levels" of the Touhous.
powerlevels don't exist in touhou
Meiling being the [...] punching bag of everyone else just because Danmaku and ranged combat isn't her thing.
This doesn't really apply to powerlevels, and the fandom doesn't beat up on Meiling because she prefers martial arts, but rather because her judged personality is rather silly and incompetent. It's slapstick that exists for the purpose of slapstick.
In all honesty she'd probably be able to whoop anyone's behind into next week given the fact that she seems to have relations with the dragons
no no no no no no no
Lastly, less OP Mokou and Kaguya and more immortality =/= massive physical strength and durability. If anything the more they die the less durable they should become. (In the games they actually die after every spell card they use, they die to Danmaku, which is NON lethal, Dai even lasts longer then those two, and she's just a fairy!)
In the games the heroines realize Mokou's immortal so they use lethal bullets. I'm not sure how this works logistically, but it's definitely said that they don't hold back because she's immortal, so you can't exactly compare it to any other character. Also, if they resurrect to a healthy non-damaged body having more or less durability than before isn't an issue. What exactly do you envision about immortality that doesn't include durability? The Hourai Elixir isn't just "if you die you resurrect", as far as I can tell.
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Another thing that I'd wish to see more of is, well a better system to scale the supposed "power levels" of the Touhous. A good, and common example of this would be Meiling and Sakuya, Meiling being the, pretty much only Touhou that fights hand to hand and uses brute force seems to be the punching bag of everyone else just because Danmaku and ranged combat isn't her thing. In all honesty she'd probably be able to whoop anyone's behind into next week given the fact that she seems to have relations with the dragons. As we all know, the dragons are the highest power in Gensokyo (if memory serves correctly)
The absolute silliness of the "Meiling = DRAGON" theory aside, we don't do powerlevel talk here. Do read the sticky when you get a chance.
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Also, Miko Hakurei was made with Mugen in mind, so it's kind of an apples and oranges dealie there. Of course a fighting game character is going to be fistier.
That much said, yeah, we don't do power levels here. Gensokyo is a weird place and trying to quantify fighting strength into some flat number can only end in tears and bafflement.
It also ignores how unique some of the characters can be and cheapens the whole thing.
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Pretty sure that's just limited to Mokou.
I want to say that her body is frail from constant abuse, but I don't know how the elixir works when it comes to that sort of thing...
Well, based on her narration in CiLR and such, it sounds like she starves herself, freezes herself, and doesn't let herself rest, among other things. Since she can't die she doesn't take care of her body, so she's always one step from death anyway.
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@Mokou: As Drake has already mentioned. In Imperishable Night, the protagonists talked about going all out when facing Mokou. So presumably, the attacks used are lethal and can definitely kill things. Mokou should not be talking about immortality, the protagonists decided to not hold back because of that. Just remember that Spell Card rules are just a set of guidelines to follow, you don't necessarily have to follow them. Here is an excerpt of one of the dialogues:
Reimu: I don't quite get it. If she's can't die, that means I can go all-out on her, right?
Yukari: More or less. It seems she's quite proud of not being able to die.
@Reimu and previous shrine maiden: The previous shrine maiden had to fight and presumably many of them died, because of the lack of spell card rules. Killing Reimu has bad consequences, so youkai try to avoid that, but accidents happen when they fight for real. Spell card rules are meant to circumvent this, for the sake of youkai and for Reimu's sake.
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Looks like I wasn't clear the first go around.
For starters by power levels I don't mean a flat number because we all know it's pretty much impossible to do so for the Touhou universe. What I meant was a way to see whom is stronger than whom based off of combat skills and magic proficiency. For instance let's say a fight broke out between our lovable idiot Cirno and the annoying as hell Tewi, who would win? Would Tewi because of the traps and trickery she can use or would Cirno because she can just freeze everything, INCLUDING the air inside someone's lungs. Reason I bring that up is because Cirno's power is the manipulation of cold which is NOT true cyrokinesis. She can control the temperature of things, adding or taking away 'coldness', including the air inside someone's lungs thereby choking them essentially.
For immortality though in the extra stage Reimu and Yukari (because route A is always canon) do indeed go all out on Mokou, but during their fight with Kaguya they make no mention of going all out and they seem to just fight normally, (and Kaguya still dies, over and over again). Also all the Hourai Elixir does is grant immortality, that's it. It doesn't give you anything else, it just makes one, according to the wiki "Anyone who drinks this forbidden elixir will cease to age, never become ill, and will never be able to die. One will be as frail and vulnerable as before, but every injury shall cease; critical injuries will be healed in a matter of days. Complete destruction results in complete restoration". With all this said the restoration process of the elixir isn't immediate like so many doujins and whatnot have seem to have portrayed it. It takes days for a critical injury to heal. Not that I don't mind instant healing Hourai Elixirs, just pointing it out. Also lost limbs, I'd say they'd only grow back either after the Hourai reaches critical injuries and would normally die, or just grow back after a few days, MAYBE even reattach but that last one I'm not too fond of.
Now, with the WIN 98 characters, well just because they don't have personality doesn't mean we can't give them ones right? Hell Momiji and Dai were just midstage bosses with no dialogue but fanon gave them life. Why can't the same by done for the older characters? I don't see any reason why not...I also don't see why either. Jokes aside though aren't they also Touhous as well? Why should they get the short end of the stick just because they're older :wat: .
Onto Meiling, I don't see how, with the little dialogue she has had, she is stuck with the persona of being silly and incompetent, having a GATEkeeper when everyone can pretty much fly is pretty silly and incompetent. If you need security like that just make your own security force, one person who specializes in martial arts can't really do much against flying people who specialize in a type of ranged combat that they invented. Either way is Meiling is so useless why keep her around? There has to be a reason right? If you were in Remilia's shoes and you needed security for your mansion and your gatekeeper was about as useful as a scarecrow wouldn't you replace her? Of course you would. I'd say Meiling AT LEAST has some relations with the dragons, I'm not saying she is a dragon now, I'm just saying that she has, at least some form of connection with them. If spell card rules are thrown aside then I'd personally think Meiling be one of the strongest in Gensokyo.
Lastly Reimu, that plot armor so thick you try to cut it with a knife but the knife would melt in your hands (see: plot armor). It's canon that Reimu doesn't straight up win each fight, she has challenged people to rematches until she has won (yes, she has used 'continues') so she isn't as omnipotent as most people make her out to be (Hax sign: you just plain F***ing lose is a good example). So less OP Reimu more fair fights.
P.S. Mokou's hair is violet not white. ;)
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For starters by power levels I don't mean a flat number because we all know it's pretty much impossible to do so for the Touhou universe. What I meant was a way to see whom is stronger than whom based off of combat skills and magic proficiency. For instance let's say a fight broke out between our lovable idiot Cirno and the annoying as hell Tewi, who would win? Would Tewi because of the traps and trickery she can use or would Cirno because she can just freeze everything, INCLUDING the air inside someone's lungs. Reason I bring that up is because Cirno's power is the manipulation of cold which is NOT true cyrokinesis. She can control the temperature of things, adding or taking away 'coldness', including the air inside someone's lungs thereby choking them essentially.
This is exactly what we're talking about. You cannot measure powerlevels in Touhou. At all. There are very abstract and purely theoretical categories, such as one could easily say Yukari is more powerful than Tokiko, but such statements are obvious to anybody and are therefore pointless. Once you get into areas where the differences are no longer obvious to everyone, powerlevels and theoretical fights collapse into unintelligible mush. Abilities are interpreted any which way because you take advantage of the ambiguous semantics of things like "manipulation of cold" (such as what you're doing, which has no basis whatsoever), you start speculating that Tewi can set traps and thus gain an advantage, etc. No, it's literally impossible to decide on an outcome. Very rarely in the series is anyone ever shown explicitly using the "limits" of their abilities, and no characters ever battle without restraint. That is the very point of the danmaku rules, and considering most battles are done as danmaku, there is nothing to work with. Abilities tell you nothing, danmaku and in-game appearances tell you nothing, speculation on theoretical scenarios and battles tell you nothing, descriptive canon material tells you little. This is why there is no "scale". There is nothing to measure.
You can have doujinshi portraying these scenarios all you want, but any real answer is not founded on any facts; it's just the whim of the writer who wins and who loses in any given scenario.
Now, with the WIN 98 characters, well just because they don't have personality doesn't mean we can't give them ones right? Hell Momiji and Dai were just midstage bosses with no dialogue but fanon gave them life. Why can't the same by done for the older characters? I don't see any reason why not...I also don't see why either. Jokes aside though aren't they also Touhous as well? Why should they get the short end of the stick just because they're older :wat: .
They get the short end of the stick because they're all largely uninspired and have little resemblance to the current cast. Dai and Momiji also had the advantage of being grouped together with other characters and settings and actually fit in the world without any effort. Sure, you could give the PC98 characters a personality and a setting and relations with other characters, but this is essentially just the same as shoving in an OC. I mean sure if writers want to then whatever cool, I mean Stuffman even has a brilliant ongoing interpretation of the Five Magic Stones, but there is no real point to giving these characters life, especially when you have so many others to work with. It isn't that they shouldn't be used as material, but they just likely won't get much attention for these reasons.
Onto Meiling, I don't see how, with the little dialogue she has had, she is stuck with the persona of being silly and incompetent, having a GATEkeeper when everyone can pretty much fly is pretty silly and incompetent.
The job of gatekeeper itself is a joke on ZUN's part, just the same as the border to the Netherworld in PCB. She's shown as silly and incompetent probably because of her awkward dialogue and inability to keep the player out, and it just expanded from there (PMiSS into IaMP etc); there doesn't have to be a huge reason why a popular interpretation catches on, and there isn't really a problem with that.
If you need security like that just make your own security force, one person who specializes in martial arts can't really do much against flying people who specialize in a type of ranged combat that they invented. Either way is Meiling is so useless why keep her around? There has to be a reason right? If you were in Remilia's shoes and you needed security for your mansion and your gatekeeper was about as useful as a scarecrow wouldn't you replace her? Of course you would.
Her background isn't explored very well, but while I think there should be a reason, there doesn't have to be. That ambiguity is part of what makes Touhou wonderful; you can go write a story about how she became the gatekeeper and you probably won't be stepping on any toes. I'd say that Meiling was a part of Remilia's "army" heading into Gensokyo in the Vampire Incident. She might have been together for longer than the SDM's move to Gensokyo, but meh, the thread of evidence stops there.
I'd say Meiling AT LEAST has some relations with the dragons, I'm not saying she is a dragon now, I'm just saying that she has, at least some form of connection with them. If spell card rules are thrown aside then I'd personally think Meiling be one of the strongest in Gensokyo.
no basis whatsoever, please explain how you come to this conclusion besides a chinese martial arts theme to her character and the character "dragon" on her hat
Lastly Reimu, that plot armor so thick you try to cut it with a knife but the knife would melt in your hands (see: plot armor). It's canon that Reimu doesn't straight up win each fight, she has challenged people to rematches until she has won (yes, she has used 'continues') so she isn't as omnipotent as most people make her out to be (Hax sign: you just plain F***ing lose is a good example). So less OP Reimu more fair fights.
I'm not sure what standards you're using for "plot" but Touhou doesn't really have any. Your definition of "plot armor" is essentially "the only endings in the games are when Reimu wins" but that should be utterly obvious to begin with. It's nonsensical that you can call beating the game "plot armor". I might even argue that mentioning she asks for rematches is evidence that she isn't overpowered, since it means that she does lose. You only notice that "she wins every time" because it's a required consequence of clearing the games.
Reimu didn't make up the spell card rules on her own, the rules don't say that she will eventually win, and they don't mean she can boss everyone around. Her role as the Hakurei Miko is what everyone else has to make note of, since she keeps up the Great Barrier and so you have to avoid killing her. Which would be pseudo-plot-armor, except, the spell card rules were created partly for the purpose of letting people win against Reimu. The implementation of the rules are like, the utter opposite of giving Reimu plot armor.
P.S. Mokou's hair is violet not white. ;)
Coloration in shadow doesn't make it widely accepted. As far as I know there isn't any source saying she has purple hair, and the description on Touhouwiki is just looking at her portrait and going "ok I see purple in there". If any color besides white, people usually use gray or pale blue. Without any real support you just have to let that go to the fan decision, you can't really correct people on something without extra evidence.
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For starters by power levels I don't mean a flat number because we all know it's pretty much impossible to do so for the Touhou universe. What I meant was a way to see whom is stronger than whom based off of combat skills and magic proficiency.
Yeah, again, read the sticky. We don't do powerlevel talk here, as it leads to pointless pissing contests over who is truly stronger than who. It's unresolvable and needless.
I'd say Meiling AT LEAST has some relations with the dragons, I'm not saying she is a dragon now, I'm just saying that she has, at least some form of connection with them.
Everything about Meiling that has some "connection" to dragons can be attributed to her being Chinese. Period. "Meiling = dragon" fans are among the biggest offenders of powerlevel talk, in my experience, because - unlike other fans who like their peripheral characters on their own term - these people have to grasp at straws and invent some reasons to justify liking her. She can't be liked just for her personality, design, fighting style, backstory or whatever; no, these folks pull pure speculation out of thin air and try to make her into something she simply is not. You don't see Wriggle fans spinning up some bullshit about how Wriggle is actually the Hakurei God or whatever - they like her own her own terms.
You're free to believe Hong Meiling is connected to dragons, that she's really Lady Gaga or whatever, but I cannot stress enough that powerlevel talk has absolutely no place here.
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Yeah, again, read the sticky. We don't do powerlevel talk here.
It may be my own incompetence but I can't seem to find that sticky'd thread of yours that says we can't talk about powerlevels, (so if you could find it and link me to it that'd be appreciated) ON THAT NOTE I understand why people don't want them and the problems something like that would cause. Guess that point of mine will never get across with so many misunderstandings, oh well.
Anywho, Drake earlier you said that
In the games the heroines realize Mokou's immortal so they use lethal bullets.
With that in mind the story in IN goes that Reimu asks Yukari if she can go all out, Yukari see's no reason why she shouldn't so she does. So, if someone can turn, pretty much a game of dodgeball into a lethal event then I think we can start getting a good sense of who's the alpha male in the pack. Also after digging around (without much effort) I found that even the Touhou's themselves know who's stronger than the other. In Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth when the entire Eientei crew go to the Scarlet Devil Mansion for the rocket ship party Remilia is having, Reisen, well remembers how much stronger Sakuya is compared to her so with that in mind we know that Sakuya > Reisen (as begrudgingly I'd have to admit that). Also note I'm not trying to support a powerlevel scaling of any kind here, I'm just trying to get my points across.
Also isn't this thread about stuff you want to see in fandom more? Not the straight up facts about the series? Cause I thought people wouldn't have to face a form of Spanish Inquisition about this sort of thing, I say something about seeing the differences in strength of the Touhou's and a dragon Meiling being able to beat Sakuya then pow, people start saying I'm wrong about something in fandom, real classy.
That aside for Reimu's nigh invulnerability I know that her winning is required to beat the game, all that I know, eye'm not stupid, but there are ways of, well beating her aside from killing her, like just beating her in a danmaku match like normal. Except if she loses she'll keep on asking/demanding/whatevering rematches until she wins. I dunno about you but if you're playing something like rock paper scissors against someone and the winner get's to keep a prize of some sorts, I don't think it's all that fair if one person get's to keep on trying until they win, even it if takes 20 some matches if that person wins once boom, they win no, two words about it. That sounds like bossing people around to me. Oh and she did make up all the spell card rules, it's written on the wiki somewhere but I forget where. Just to clear things up though I'm not saying that Reimu should lose, cause you know she's the heroine of the game and all that jazz and having her lose at the end would be pretty darn disappointing, (even though at the end of Fairy Wars Cirno both won and lost against Marisa but that's an entire other ball of wax that doesn't need to be picked apart at this point in time). Btw thanks for agreeing that Reimu isn't overpowered, too many people think she can, well take on an Imperial Star Destroyer without breaking a sweat.
Now for the Hong Dragon thing. I'm not saying she IS a dragon, she COULD be a dragon because the type of youkai she is hasn't be confirmed yet, but her rainbow style danmaku, the little star on her head, hell even her name (see Hong Rainbow-Dragon) make references to dragons. Oh and the wiki DOES say that Mokou's hair is violet, a very light almost white violet but a violet nonetheless, (and I'm also NOT saying that her hair HAS to be this colour, I'm just saying that it is in canon).
Again, why are we even talking about canon here? I thought this thread was about what we would want to see more in fanon not to compare what I said to the actual canon, sweet baby beezus you two. Lay off the new guy will you? Some first impression you two are giving.
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http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,6593.0.html It's a sticky that says "Please read this" lol.
Mainly the reason I'm jumping on your case about canon in a fandom thread is that you're talking about things as if they did have a factual basis and weren't just things you wanted to see. You're giving your reasons why you want some of these things to show up more often, but they're mostly unsubstantiated reasons, which is what's being called out.
Sorry if I don't go easy on newbies. I just wanted to correct you but your post was filled with things to correct and then you replied in return, so you're fair game lol.
But unlike the Spanish Inquisition, pretty much everyone should expect me :D
As far as "the characters know who's stronger than one another", that often doesn't ever explicitly show up, and when it does it's those more obvious things like Marisa beating Cirno with a flashlight. What's sort of nonobvious, is that Inaba wasn't written by ZUN; ZUN provided general settings and let Arata use the characters, but left the writing and art direction almost completely up to Arata to do what he wanted. As it's a comedy, it's very loose and wasn't really restricted on interfering with other canon material simply for comedic license, so as a general rule Inaba isn't really regarded as "canonical". Even though it's an official book, it probably shouldn't be called upon for facts unless those facts already exist elsewhere. But of course, if you wanted to use things from Inaba as material in your own fan material, then that isn't a problem.
Reimu didn't make the spell card rules by herself. It's entirely possible that she didn't even contribute to it herself at all, since the Draft was not written by her at all. Of course I do think she was very involved, and probably influential than most, but it's pretty blatantly stated in PMiSS that Reimu didn't make the rules, and that they were pretty much given/dropped off to her. Also, I'd like to point out that even though Akyuu states that Reimu has rematches until she wins, this is really just an analogue to using continues. Like I said, it's just a tidbit used to throw game elements into the setting. I have to stress that it's pretty much a necessary explanation, otherwise either Reimu would fail to resolve incidents and Gensokyo would be a mess, or Reimu would simply win every time, which would suck even more. If you think of it as using a continue, note the Bad Ends: you do go home, pack up and try again later. It isn't as if she just keeps fighting after she runs out of spells like your rock-paper-scissors scenario. One would think that going back to rest and prepare to set out and try again isn't something that only Reimu does.
(Also GFW's events are silly because even though in-game you "win", Cirno does actually lose; first it was just assumed since Cirno's clothes are tattered and Marisa's aren't, but it's now confirmed in SoPM that she lost, while Marisa was drunk, even)
About Meiling:
>In all honesty she'd probably be able to whoop anyone's behind into next week given the fact that she seems to have relations with the dragons
>I'd say Meiling AT LEAST has some relations with the dragons, I'm not saying she is a dragon now, I'm just saying that she has, at least some form of connection with them. If spell card rules are thrown aside then I'd personally think Meiling be one of the strongest in Gensokyo.
This doesn't imply just a personal preference, you're claiming that Meiling actually has these traits when she doesn't, and then you use that as your basis for things you want to see. She doesn't have a connection with Dragons as in Touhou's Dragons, she just has theming inspired by chinese martial arts, which often includes dragons. Sure you can use that connection if you want to write a story or doujinshi, but you can't equate them as if it actually means anything.
About Mokou:
Your assertion that it's violet is the problem though. The wiki says her hair is violet, and I can see the violet, but as I mentioned, as far as I can tell there's no source other than the portrait itself saying it's violet, which means the description on the wiki is baseless. To that extent, you can't just say it's violet as if it is indeed canon. Normally that isn't something I'd take issue with, but if everyone normally says she has white hair and everyone portrays her as having white hair, trying to correct them based on what the wiki says, which also is based on nothing, is pretty unnecessary.
(Also this is TARC, we can basically talk about canon in any thread as long as it's an actual discussion that's somewhat relevant; if we keep continuing maybe we'll go somewhere else but this is mainly about how you're trying to use facts that don't really exist as support for the "stuff you wish to see")
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The first rule of thumb in the English-speaking Touhou fandom is to never trust the wiki. I don't dislike the wiki as a concept, and it's certainly an easier way to introduce a new fan than asking them to read the dialog of every single game or read all the side materials, but it is absolutely not something that anyone should ever cite as if it's somehow more reliable than some random fan. This isn't anyone's fault in particular, it's just the nature of it being a wiki. Some confused person adds something false they think is true, some translator misses a reference in a spellcard, or even some transcriber makes a typo in the Japanese text dumps. Absolutely nothing there is reliable. Which isn't even really a problem since the fandom is supposed to be about drawing your own conclusions anyway.
As for Mokou's hair, there's a picture of her as a child in CiLR, and she has black hair. So my assumption has always been that her hair turned white with age, or perhaps from some trauma she experienced in her long life. Which actually has the interesting implication that her hair is immune to the elixir for some reason.
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Well how in the world did I miss that, part of my brain must have been shut off due to fatigue or something, now I just feel silly ::) .
Anywho most of this was just a test run by me to see how this forum works (I've seen some craaaaazy things) and honestly I like it here :D .
Back to topic, fanon needs more gadget oriented Nitori, almost steampunk like.
That is all.
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"Meiling = dragon" fans are among the biggest offenders of powerlevel talk, in my experience, because - unlike other fans who like their peripheral characters on their own term - these people have to grasp at straws and invent some reasons to justify liking her. She can't be liked just for her personality, design, fighting style, backstory or whatever; no, these folks pull pure speculation out of thin air and try to make her into something she simply is not.
I think that mainly got popular as a response the the meme of Sakuya knifing Meiling rather than for no reason. As a fan of Meiling myself, I don't believe in that idea, though I do enjoy artwork where she is portrayed with dragon-like characteristics.
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What's sort of nonobvious, is that Inaba wasn't written by ZUN; ZUN provided general settings and let Arata use the characters, but left the writing and art direction almost completely up to Arata to do what he wanted. As it's a comedy, it's very loose and wasn't really restricted on interfering with other canon material simply for comedic license, so as a general rule Inaba isn't really regarded as "canonical".
I must disagree with this sentiment. I find this kind of reasoning really bad and presumptuous. Inaba of Earth/Moon is an official manga, so the events in it would be considered canon, much like the 3 fairies manga and Kasen's manga. That said, if there are interferences, then, you can argue, hey this is not canon, because XYZ does not make sense since I see information from another canon source saying otherwise. Otherwise, I see no reason to treat it as non-canon material.
@Reimu and spell card rules: Reimu is assumed to have approved the spell card rules, but she did not create the rules. There is a spell card rules article (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Draft_of_Spell_Card_Rules) and it talks about spell card rules.
@spell card rules: Now spell card rules are there so that Touhous don't use their full power. What if a youkai really wants to win and there were no rules determining a victory condition? The default victory condition, beating down your opponent gets used. Well, in that scenario, you get a possibility that Reimu can be killed and bad things will happen to Gensokyo.
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Spell card rules: Uh I know. Not sure what you're trying to say.
Inaba: Sorry, please pay attention to the context there, it was a somewhat poor choice of words. It isn't that Inaba should just be outright ignored, just that it shouldn't ever be taken too seriously, and events and saying in Inaba probably shouldn't be used by themselves as argument. Usually this is only the case when there are indeed conflicts with existing material (usually mild), or when some event, especially something that is used for a joke, is taken without other evidence to have some larger consequences, such as the usual example of "Eirin catches a cold". Aside from these cases, there isn't much to run around wildly with anyways, so I don't feel it's proper to say for example "The Wakatsukis didn't come back to Eientei", since this has little reason to be skeptical about it. The reason why I'd reject Sakuya > Reisen is because it wasn't stated by ZUN, the claim otherwise has no support, and characters talking about one being stronger than another happens almost never. Running with Reisen's quote and using it to imply other things is a bit careless, I think.
That being said, I definitely do not agree with it being on the same level as WaHH and Three Fairies. Inaba is a gag manga, and it was also not written by ZUN. That should clearly be enough to question its contents on some level. WaHH and Three Fairies are not gag manga, actually have active depictions of Gensokyo, the latter being used as big literary device to explore Gensokyo as a neutral 3rd party, contain decent amounts of information, actually have a plot and semblance of plots respectively, and are actually written by ZUN. I don't see the label "official" as "I should listen to this without question". I would say Seasonal Dream Vision's comics are also "official", yet should not be used as sources of information at all.
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Again, why are we even talking about canon here? I thought this thread was about what we would want to see more in fanon not to compare what I said to the actual canon, sweet baby beezus you two. Lay off the new guy will you? Some first impression you two are giving.
Well I'm sorry you feel put upon. But it's a little unnerving when you're told, twice, that powerlevel talk isn't done here but you insist on going ahead and talking about it anyway. And then contend that there's some "misunderstanding" about it. Folks here understand perfectly well what powerlevels are - they're just forbidden here. Hope that's not a deal-breaker for you.
Second, yes, this thread is about what we want to see in fanon more. Unfortunately, one of the things you said you wanted to see more of is "a better system to scale the supposed 'power levels' of the Touhous" which, as was pointed out, is problematic as powerlevel talk is just not on the table here.
As far as canon goes, this is a board where canon gets picked apart to death. There've been multi-page threads based on the Maribel = Yukari theory. We have people here who love digging into canon and, dare I say, a few folks here who can be downright pedantic and hair-splitting when it comes to canon. As you've probably noticed by now, some people have more of a sense of humor than others when it comes to canon speculation. So when you make tenuous claims about Touhou canon - especially the whole "Meiling and dragons" thing, people can and most likely will jump on that. If someone's being really nitpicky, my suggestion would be to just let it roll off your back, because such people are never, ever going to back down from an argument, but in the eyes of everyone else they're not "right" so much as they are "spergy".
Personally, I think anything linking Meiling to dragons could very well be said to link her to China, the country, for which dragons are a long-standing emblem. This connection, to me, is a lot more obvious than the "connections to dragons" thing but hey, past experience has taught me that fans who hold this theory aren't going to back down from it, so I'll just leave it at that.
Anyways, hope you enjoy your time here!
I think that mainly got popular as a response the the meme of Sakuya knifing Meiling rather than for no reason. As a fan of Meiling myself, I don't believe in that idea, though I do enjoy artwork where she is portrayed with dragon-like characteristics.
Oh, totally. I know plenty of Meiling fans who are ... regular fans of hers. And I can definitely appreciate wanting to stick up for a peripheral character who doesn't get much backstory and is sort of the punching bag of other characters. I have little issue with Meiling (in fact, "Chinese Tea" is one of my favorite songs in the series).
So yeah, maybe that's something I'd like to see more of - "normal" Meiling. Her daily life, the things she attends to and takes care of, maybe some secret hobby she engages in in private that no one else knows about.
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At any rate I think any discussion of power levels gets really redundant really fast when a character who is a literal walking nuke exists and arguably ISN'T the biggest threat in the series.
The correct answer to the question "Who would win?" is "NO SURVIVORS, NO REMAINS." It's sort of like the Cold War, except with memorably ridiculous outfits and theme songs and fancy bullet patterns and also everyone's considerably more chill and events of any sort of remote importance tend to end in tea parties rather than Mexican standoffs.
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Oh hey, I thought of one. Reimu wielding needles instead of amulets. Besides the occasional loose picture, they're totally ignored most of the time.
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I'd like to see more of Makai in fandom for a two reasons. Firstly, because it seems to be a very unique and varied place so I think it would be interesting to see different artist's interpretations of how different areas in it look. Secondly I think it would be interesting to see what the makai residents (not shinki, just the average residents) do during their average day.
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I've seen a bit of them, but not too many English translated Ten Desires cast focal doujinshi. Some of them seem interesting.
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I'm surprised nobody made a pic of Star Sapphire and the character of the same name from DC Comics being together (or merged together) yet.
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I did see a couple of those after GFW came out, but I guess she's not a character people care enough about to keep that joke going. Shame, too, because I thought it was funny.
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I'd personally like to see ''weaker'' characters (Wriggle, Mystia, Nazrin, Rumia, the Aki sisters, Hina, Yamame, pretty much every stage 1 and 2 bosses ever) have their own little story and end up doing something amazing (Beating a ''stronger'' character in a danmaku duel, etc) and stuff. Even though powerlevels don't exist in Touhou (Which is great, in my opinion), few people try to make a character who is essentially weaker do things you wouldn't expect them to do. I've always believed that in the Touhou universe, everyone could do anything if they were truly determined. Since stage 1 and 2 characters rarely have much resolve when fighting, usually doing it for fun or annoyance, I think it would be nice to see them be driven by a goal that would truly matter to them.
And about Reimu's needles, I actually like seeing them being left out; Not only do I personally have a fear of needles, I think it doesn't fit very well in the slightly more fun-oriented danmaku duels; Receiving a star made of energy on you and getting your skin pierced by needles are definitely very different.
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(http://i.imgur.com/kdrEN.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/kdrEN.jpg)
...This is gorgeous. Simply beautiful.
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I just realized something else I want. Does music count as fandom? Because I want a Necrofantasia/Night Falls ~ Evening Star mix. If a good rendition of such a thing exists somewhere, someone please let me know.
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I just realized something else I want. Does music count as fandom? Because I want a Necrofantasia/Night Falls ~ Evening Star mix. If a good rendition of such a thing exists somewhere, someone please let me know.
...That's genius. I've never, ever found such thing.
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I just realized something else I want. Does music count as fandom? Because I want a Necrofantasia/Night Falls ~ Evening Star mix. If a good rendition of such a thing exists somewhere, someone please let me know.
Well, it's totally subjective to opinion, but I did happen to find one arrange by Sound Holic. And if you know Sound Holic, then you know what to expect... is what I want to say. This arrange is really different from most of their stuff, but it ain't that bad, honestly. Here it is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TRkzOgFCNg).
Those vocals aren't throughout the entire song, if you were wondering. I personally don't mind them, but I understand completely if they do.
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As far as themes go, there was an underrated themes thread awhile back, but I still say I REALLY want to see more Tengu is Watching ~ Black Eyes and World of Empty Dreams arranges ;-;
I want more badass Were-hakutaku Keine in fanon. I've read 1 or 2 doujins, and, man, I want more of it. I'd also like to see her use her ability more in fanon. I know it's probably difficult to do without screwing something up, but I honestly don't think I've seen it used in fanon. I have no issues with how she's portrayed in the fandom though~
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That wasn't quite what I was expecting at all, but it certainly was... something.
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Yeah... In all honesty, if I wouldn't have known the origin, I never would've guessed it was from Touhou...
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Necrofantasia/Night Falls ~ Evening Star mix.
Give this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u2HXptQXZE) a try. It's by RD-Sounds, one of my favorite circles of all time.
Sound Holic ... Tengu is Watching ~ Black Eyes arranges ;-;
BLACK EYES STORY!! :getdown:
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RD-Sounds, one of my favorite circles of all time.
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BLACK EYES STORY!!
I AGREE
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I ALSO AGREE, though I thought Silver Forest's Guilty was the best arrange of the theme I've heard.
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All the theories in both this and the Moon thread have gotten me tired. I've come up with a superior theory to blow them out of the water that I expect to see in fanworks shortly:
Sakuya is a dragon. Meiling is a Lunarian.
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Sakuya is a dragon. Meiling is a Lunarian.
WAR HAS CHANGED.
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Sakuya is a dragon. Meiling is a Lunarian.
This is my new religion.
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Sakuya is a dragon. Meiling is a Lunarian.
I can get behind this.
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Obviously Sakuya is the dragon king. The proof lies in that a day in the dragon king's palace equates to a century outside. Also, in a literary sense she is the dragon to Remilia's overlorditude.
Meanwhile, Meiling named herself after a rainbow dragon and developed rainbow-themed fighting and started wearing a dragon emblem on her hat because the other lunarians teased her for not being sue-ish enough. It didn't work, so she jumped down to earth to work for a dragon king and a vampire.
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because the other lunarians teased her for not being sue-ish enough.
This made me laugh so darn much.
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After reading Symposium of Post Mysticism, I think a sexy construction worker Yamame would be an awesome thing in the fandom. Yes, the Earth Spiders are apparently available for hire in the construction industry and work very fast.
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A doujin by the same guy who drew the image I last posted has Yamame as a construction worker helping Nazrin (and others) build her house.
it's unfortunately a more deformed-style gag doujin though so no sexyspider
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-a doujin that makes alice dies first than marisa
-young sakuya in SDM
-cirno depicted as a cool person
-remilia liking cool cirno
-yuyuko and eiki being accomplice
-miko meets satori (ability to read desires and ability to read mind)
-koishi before she closes her third eye
-flan that's allowed to go outside
-suwako's hat depicted as some kind of another dimension
-non serious school themed touhou doujin
etc. (but that's all I really really want to see)
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I want to see more Luize. She gets less love than the Aki sisters.
I just love her hat. I want that damn hat!
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I want more tourist Luize showing up everywhere. She don't need no travel agency!
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I want more tourist Luize showing up everywhere. She don't need no travel agency!
Someone should create a patch for every windows game where Luize is in the background taking pictures or reading tour guides.
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Y'know what I'd kinda like to see more of?
Touhou X Gundam.
And none of the whiny stuff you saw all over the place in seed, I'm talkin' the raw, unabashed, sheer HOTBLOOD AND NARM THAT IS G GUNDAM!
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I just like to see anything involving the SA cast. Silly, serious, or otherwise. (Mainly OkuuOrin friendship and SatoriKoishi sisterhood stuff)
More stuff involving the TD cast, mainly Miko.
Seeing the UFO cast before Byakuren was sealed.
Everyday life shenanigans.
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...and SatoriKoishi sisterhood stuff...
Something that isn't totally "depressed-and-woe-is-me" or "lololololol-Koishi-trolling" would be nice, too. I've seen far too much of that.
It really does get tedious, especially in fanfiction, when someone is always causing a massive incident... especially when that certain incident catalyst is Yukari.
There are other characters, you know, fanfiction writers! Yukari may be the mastermind type, but that defeats the point of having a suspense story if we can guess the ending before the the story even begins.
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Seeing the UFO cast before Byakuren was sealed.
Have you read the fanfic Rising Star (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4895.0.html)? It's Shou-centric and it covers the UFO cast of a thousand years ago and hopefully it's just what you'd like to see.
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Have you read the fanfic Rising Star (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,4895.0.html)? It's Shou-centric and it covers the UFO cast of a thousand years ago and hopefully it's just what you'd like to see.
No I haven't. I will get it a read when I have time. Thank you.
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Well, I would kinda like to see the relationship between the original Byakuren group (Nazrin, Shou, Murasa, etc) with the new ones (Nue, Kyouko and Mamizou). Kinda like how everyone took the addition of the 3 newcomers (and some duel for fun like Mamizou with Nue vs Byakuren with Shou or something like that).
The evil trio (Flandre, Koishi and Nue) as the main antagonist of a well made story :I
A well done story about THIS (http://rmart.org/28520/Src/28520-Touhou-Eirin-Yagokoro-Patchouli-Knowledge-Ran-Yakumo-Yumemi-Okazaki.jpg)
If I could go a little further....A "Tales of" game with Touhou characters (Would love it soo much :V ) and maybe a Fate Stay night story with Touhou characters as servants (More like a Fate/Zero story since FSN is kinda chessy for multiple reasons)
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Fate Stay night story with Touhou characters as servants (More like a Fate/Zero story since FSN is kinda chessy for multiple reasons)
I've thought about this before, but you'd first have to...
- figure out some way of justifying the classes (Caster, Berserker, Assassin (ignoring the whole "must be Al Mualim clause), sure, plenty of choices. Saber and Archer, got one or two. Remilia would be the only fit for Lancer, off the top of my head, and Murasa could possibly qualify for Rider. But yeah, pretty limited choices in a lot of cases).
- how they'd qualify as servants (only a few Touhou characters are actual mythological figures and not just "random person of race X", AFAIK, and they're all in Gensokyo regardless).
- how to make them fit the atmosphere without being OOC (or just go ahead and change their personalities outright).
- how to handle half the cast's powers counting as true magic (breaking thermodynamics or whatnot).
- what you're going to have for noble phantasms (FSN is more about concepts interacting than power clashes, mostly, so just calling a spellcard their phantasm and calling it a day wouldn't be very apt).
aaand so forth. Having said that, I still like the idea, provided it's not a generic "insert character(s) from X series into Y series and have them kick ass and have everyone in series Y be shocked" yarn. I can enjoy simple fanworks, but this crossover has too much potential as a thinkin' type. So many wonderful parallels to explore.
As for moar pure touhou stuff, I'd like to see something where incidents need information gathering to be solved (like that one PCB video where Marisa goes to Alice and Patchouli for help, or certain paths in IaMP and SWR).
Actually, Sherlock Saigyouji and Youmu Watson would be perfect.
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A "Tales of" game with Touhou characters (Would love it soo much :V )
I'd kill for that. I'd literally rip out hearts and eat them if it could bring me Tales of Gensokyo :I
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Would you rip out Spiria and eat it?
:V
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Spiria? What's that?
*google-images it*
...Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh.... So, is Spiria a fruit, a yu-gi-oh monster, a cellphone or a fancy word for topless drunken ladies?
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Patchouli being a lawyer. She fits that role so well IMO.
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Patchouli being a lawyer. She fits that role so well IMO.
I agree. I loved her in Shin Gyakuten Touhou. (That Phoenix Wright-like Touhou fan game)
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I agree. I loved her in Shin Gyakuten Touhou. (That Phoenix Wright-like Touhou fan game)
There is such a game?!
*Googles*
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There is such a game?!
*Googles*
I was sure you took the Lawyer Patchy idea from that! Well anyway, there is such game and it even has an english patch. My only comment about the game is that it's pure awesome. It gives a very similar experience to the regular Phoenix Wright games. To quickly make a recap, Aya is Pheonix, Momiji is Maya, Shikeiki is the judge (duh), Remilia/Patchouli juggle with the prosecutor role and Sakuya is the police chief. There's plenty of whacky and nice cases, with most of them having a serious theme behind them.
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I was sure you took the Lawyer Patchy idea from that! Well anyway, there is such game and it even has an english patch. My only comment about the game is that it's pure awesome. It gives a very similar experience to the regular Phoenix Wright games. To quickly make a recap, Aya is Pheonix, Momiji is Maya, Shikeiki is the judge (duh), Remilia/Patchouli juggle with the prosecutor role and Sakuya is the police chief. There's plenty of whacky and nice cases, with most of them having a serious theme behind them.
Looks like it is time to downl---
STOP!! YOU SHOULD NOT...
Alright, I'll watch the playthroughs...
Patchouli always looked like a lawyer to me, with her book and that forever-serious look. She looks too classy to be a librarian, but a lawyer's role would suit her I guess. I play the phoenix wright games myself, and I have, for many times, tried to suppose Patchouli as Phoenix Wright, but yeah. Barrister Patchouli.
>Cannot believe that idea existed
>>None of my ideas are ever original
>>>Screw it, just make do with whatever is already done for me
I guess it is going to be interesting... how many cases are there in total?
Also, more Hisoutensoku players. Clearing Lunatic with Patchouli is too easy...
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There are... *can't remember*
Lemme check the game quickly.
Careful, the following part contains some... not-so-spoiling-spoilers due to being a summary of the summaries offered on the menu when choosing your chapter)
First Case (AKA the ''tutorial): Cirno is accused of breaking Rinnosuke's camera. Defending the (9) is going to be quite a task!
Second Case (Quoted from the menu): An explosion at the Eientei! A brazen theft! A missing pot! Is Marisa the culprit? Aya's second case is certainly not going to be Easy nor Normal...
Third Case (Once again, quoted): Suika Ibuki is in a coma due to drinking Oni Killer sake. And the one who poured the drink is... Reimu!? The truth is hidden behind the scene...
Fourth Case, called ''Extra'' (Quoted once more): Aya is called to defend a fallen celestial but the evidence looks abysmal! With the help of Kappa technology, stage a comeback and prove her innocence!
The game is enjoyably long and includes characters up to UFO.
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There are... *can't remember*
Lemme check the game quickly.
Careful, the following part contains some... not-so-spoiling-spoilers due to being a summary of the summaries offered on the menu when choosing your chapter)
First Case (AKA the ''tutorial): Cirno is accused of breaking Rinnosuke's camera. Defending the ⑨ is going to be quite a task!
Second Case (Quoted from the menu): An explosion at the Eientei! A brazen theft! A missing pot! Is Marisa the culprit? Aya's second case is certainly not going to be Easy nor Normal...
Third Case (Once again, quoted): Suika Ibuki is in a coma due to drinking Oni Killer sake. And the one who poured the drink is... Reimu!? The truth is hidden behind the scene...
Fourth Case, called ''Extra'' (Quoted once more): Aya is called to defend a fallen celestial but the evidence looks abysmal! With the help of Kappa technology, stage a comeback and prove her innocence!
The game is enjoyably long and includes characters up to UFO.
Sounds very interesting... Thanks!!
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Sounds very interesting... Thanks!!
You're welcome!
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Spiria? What's that?
go play tales of hearts ;;
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go play tales of hearts ;;
I would play all tales of ever made if they were released in North America. Hell, I had to bring back Tales of Vesperia here in Quebec from the US because they refuse to sell it here. I think it was some sort of lack of French manual issue.
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go play tales of hearts ;;
Go play f*cking Tales of the abyss! Such an amazing game!
The only problem of the game were the constant loading screens and that the AI couldnt be more useless :/
I remember playing it with a friend and using a Caster (Who the hell plays a caster on a "Tales of" game?!), it was quite fun, specially the combos we could pull.
Wasted a lot of time in it, but it was one of the few RPG games that I have completed 100% (sidesquest, titles and stuff) and it was worth it :)
/offtopic
I would like the see the relation between some stage 6 bosses (Remilia with Byakuren, Toyosatomimi with Yuyuko, etc)
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implying i haven't cleared it fifty times over etc
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More crossovers with other shmups. BV
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(Who the hell plays a caster on a "Tales of" game?!)
*Raises hand*
I only play as Rita Mordio though. Her special skills can, with some synthesis reagents' hunting and special accessories, make all her spells cost 0 MP and have zero casting time, all of that while being immune to magic damage and flying in the air. So shush :I
And Touhou needs more rpgs. Because Touhou rpgs make the world go round. (Or square.)
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Philia in ToDR
Leia in ToX
basically anyone in ToD2
Beryl in ToH
Cheria in ToG
Ange in ToI, but she doesn't really count as a spellcaster
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Who else here thinks that Youmu could be a perfect protagonist for a Touhou-Tales of game?
She fits a lot of the required characteristics :I
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Who else here thinks that Youmu could be a perfect protagonist for a Touhou-Tales of game?
She fits a lot of the required characteristics :I
She certainly has the number one criteria: Have a really strange mix of race, job and actual profession.
Youmu's a half-ghost samurai gardener of the netherworld. It's perfect!
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more evil reimu
more crying marisa
more genderbends
more character exploration
more yuuka and alice and reimu and marisa interaction cause of pc-98 ties
/crys
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more evil reimu
Soooo, Meimu? Or actual Reimu gone evil?
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more crying marisa
More crying ANYONE. A crying Touhou loli is pretty much a guarantee any of those.
- Awwwwwww <3
- Oh nooooooo ;____;
- HOLY F*CK THIS IS HORRIBLE, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS GUY
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I love when Reimu is drawn with mostly brown/black hair, but it's kiiinda purple-ish. Continuity and all that.
On the other hand, I think it'd be great/amusing to see some where either the purple or the brown/black is only visible near the roots, as if she's dying it the other.
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Some of the dumber/more overused/more annoying memes inverted or otherwise played around with. Just something, ANYTHING more interesting than cheap-humor-as-status-quo.
-Eirin being hospitable and Reisen being a jerk and stealing her drugs
-Alice realizing that her house's remote location dissuades visitors and casting magic on her dolls that lets other people teleconference through them
-Ran struggling with being terminally modest even as the universe itself conspires to destroy her wardrobe (seriously, suppatenko wtf)
-Keine attempts to 1cc a CAVE shmup and fails badly, though valiantly
-Kaguya as bratty teenager who stays out all night and gets into mischief despite Eirin demanding she be home by 5
Etc.
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Some of the dumber/more overused/more annoying memes inverted or otherwise played around with. Just something, ANYTHING more interesting than cheap-humor-as-status-quo.
-Eirin being hospitable and Reisen being a jerk and stealing her drugs
-Alice realizing that her house's remote location dissuades visitors and casting magic on her dolls that lets other people teleconference through them
-Ran struggling with being terminally modest even as the universe itself conspires to destroy her wardrobe (seriously, suppatenko wtf)
-Keine attempts to 1cc a CAVE shmup and fails badly, though valiantly
-Kaguya as bratty teenager who stays out all night and gets into mischief despite Eirin demanding she be home by 5
Etc.
ha..ha i can totally see the last one..
More crying ANYONE. A crying Touhou loli is pretty much a guarantee any of those.
- Awwwwwww <3
- Oh nooooooo ;____;
- HOLY F*CK THIS IS HORRIBLE, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS GUY
crying is moe but not until the level of 'you shouldn't be going ufufu!' /weeps
Soooo, Meimu? Or actual Reimu gone evil?
i think less pleasant shrine maiden and more scheming binbou miko (just a guess)
a-also, is that phoenix wright touhou crossover in english
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-Kaguya as bratty teenager who stays out all night and gets into mischief despite Eirin demanding she be home by 5
I would honestly lol. Besides, it would fit Kaguya's canon playful and curious side, right?
a-also, is that phoenix wright touhou crossover in english
It certainly is. A very well done crossover, if I may add.
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You all stop it!
This thread is about tales of x Touhou!
Off topic will not be tolerated!
Btw Touhou needs more SakuYou and ShouNaz <3
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Touhou needs more Nazrin that isn't ShouNaz.
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Yes. Nazrin is not exactly starved for choices.
In other news, Murasa/Komachi's boat/Futo's boat OT3.
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I've some cute KogaNaz
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herp
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...Why not send that link request in a PM too, then? o.O
I'd like to see some portrayals of Alice as some sort of immigrant/foreign exchange student from Makai to Gensokyo; she knows more about the politics and history of Gensokyo than most of the actual inhabitants, including Patchouli, and in IaMP she comes across as if she hasn't quite gotten used to the laid-back, fight-happy populace yet.
Actually, heck, I'd like to see a well-written "Touhou High" story. Got at least one character for pretty much every archetype, and most could justifiably fit several.
Delinquent Mokou, rich-granddaughter-of-the-principal Kaguya, honour student Alice, asocial perpetual-library-dweller Patchouli, school idol Reimu, journalism club Tengu, tomboy Cirno, overly-energetic accident-prone Flandre, suprisingly-accademically-competent dunce Marisa, socialite Remilia, class president Byakuren, and so on.
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...Why not send that link request in a PM too, then? o.O
I'd like to see some portrayals of Alice as some sort of immigrant/foreign exchange student from Makai to Gensokyo; she knows more about the politics and history of Gensokyo than most of the actual inhabitants, including Patchouli, and in IaMP she comes across as if she hasn't quite gotten used to the laid-back, fight-happy populace yet.
Actually, heck, I'd like to see a well-written "Touhou High" story. Got at least one character for pretty much every archetype, and most could justifiably fit several.
Delinquent Mokou, rich-granddaughter-of-the-principal Kaguya, honour student Alice, asocial perpetual-library-dweller Patchouli, school idol Reimu, journalism club Tengu, tomboy Cirno, overly-energetic accident-prone Flandre, suprisingly-accademically-competent dunce Marisa, socialite Remilia, class president Byakuren, and so on.
Aaaand everybody forgot about Keine.
Needs more Keine x Mokou, I swear. There is not enough doujin of them.
Also, Delinquent Mokou... smoking?
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Needs more Keine x Mokou, I swear. There is not enough doujin of them.
???
Uh, you new to this planet, mang?
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Off the topic of KeneMoko vs TeruMoko (I'm all for the latter btw it's my OTP eternity bla bla bla) I wonder how Eirin x Keine would be
Aaaand everybody forgot about Keine.
Needs more Keine x Mokou, I swear. There is not enough doujin of them.
Also, Delinquent Mokou... smoking?
y, you're joking, right? so much keinemoko in the world it hurts my terumoko heart
also, two pictures of mokotan smoking in this guy's gallery (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=438735)
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Aaaand everybody forgot about Keine.
Needs more Keine x Mokou, I swear. There is not enough doujin of them.
Also, Delinquent Mokou... smoking?
you what makes me sad
its that on voile for every 5 keine x mokou doujin that gets translated only 1 reimu x marisa gets translated
TOO MANY MOKOTERU IN VOILE
NOT ENOUGH YUUKA X ALICE
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Aaaand everybody forgot about Keine.
I was thinking of Keine as one of those types with unreasonably high study standards who caves under the pressure once a month. Also, Mima is that one student that turned up for a few weeks at the start of the year then never turned up again, but never filed a transfer form.
Yuuka the Yakuza would also be a fun read.
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I was thinking of Keine as one of those types with unreasonably high study standards who caves under the pressure once a month.
I C WUT U DID THAR.
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Hmmm yeah I totally dig that mima idea
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All I ask is of less NEET-Kaguya! Honestly, it's a little upsetting that I see more jokes and pictures of her in a NEET nature than her canon personality. So, more canon Kaguya!
If I had to say anything else- more sane(ish)-Flandre, less baka-Cirno, I suppose just more canon portrayals in general?
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More Medicine Melancholy doing...Well, anything, really.
Also, more Hinaface. I NEED MORE HINAFACE.
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Also, more Hinaface. I NEED MORE HINAFACE.
(http://i.imgur.com/V1k4U.png)
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Loooooost. brb laughing forever
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(http://i.imgur.com/V1k4U.png)
Someone needs to do a Byakuren version of this.
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(http://i.imgur.com/V1k4U.png)
nearly pissed myself laughing from this
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(http://i.imgur.com/V1k4U.png)
IT'S SPREADING! *Hides*
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People making more of an effort to act rational and civil every time ZUN releases a lorebook.
I won't bring up THE debate that's prompted me to note this since it attracts flame bait from some quarters for spectacularly silly reasons, so I'll cite other examples I am less involved in:
I can only stand people raging about Nitori's or Kisume's article in SoPM so long before it crosses from faintly amusing to irritatingly tedious. Sometimes schadenfreude just gets depressing.
I admittedly think ZUN tries a tad too hard to add a SERIOUS element to the story with some of the lore releases, but what the heck ever. He's probably way too sloshed to even imagine how aggressively people might wind up acting over their pet Touhou.
If by some chance you want to know PRECISELY which Touhou lore debate prompted this schpiel, please feel free to PM me over it.
...
On a less serious-business note, more space-marine Reisen, like in that one Halo parody video I can't find right now, curse my luck.
That was sad, cool, and funny as Hell at the same time.
alsostillneedmorehinafaceHINAFACEHINAFACEHINAFACEHINAFACE.
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these kinds of people seem to care about the canon lore for all the wrong reasons and usually have this fundamental disconnect between fanon and canon in only the areas where they shouldn't
can't deal with byakuren not actually being a saint trying to help everyone and kanako wiping the floor with her in debateland? as if you cared about it enough in the first place to realize that this was the case before sopm as well
can't deal with nitori being a total murderer assrapist? she is a youkai and a kappa, you are a tool for letting this get in the way of whatever you were imagining before
can't deal with kisume... uh... tricking kids? well that's just silly
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these kinds of people seem to care about the canon lore for all the wrong reasons and usually have this fundamental disconnect between fanon and canon in only the areas where they shouldn't
can't deal with byakuren not actually being a saint trying to help everyone and kanako wiping the floor with her in debateland? as if you cared about it enough in the first place to realize that this was the case before sopm as well
can't deal with nitori being a total murderer assrapist? she is a youkai and a kappa, you are a tool for letting this get in the way of whatever you were imagining before
can't deal with kisume... uh... tricking kids? well that's just silly
Yeah, this prettymuch. I think.
(Though given Sanae's ending in UFO I am still very skeptical as to who or what to believe regarding Byakuren's behavior.)
And since apparently it's okay to bring it up here, the "debate" in question that's rustling my jimmies is some people here seem to be getting noticeably competitive about the Taoists versus the Buddhists and making Byakuren the butt of jokes for dumb reasons. I THINK they're making jokes, I'm having trouble telling whether all of it is just humorous jostling or if people are actually turning into massive tightwads about one fictional flying loli brigade versus another.
I like both parties as characters so you'll have to forgive me if I think the dichotomy is hokum.
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On that note, I think it's a little silly how many people are sure that 13.5 is gonna be a super-serious religious war with "real consequences." C'mon. They'll all be drinking together in the ending, same as always.
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On that note, I think it's a little silly how many people are sure that 13.5 is gonna be a super-serious religious war with "real consequences." C'mon. They'll all be drinking together in the ending, same as always.
I'm anticipating numerous doujin going that route, but yeah, expecting CRUSADES MODE is a bit daft.
I see it more as "the human village is bored shitless and the temples are competing for prime time slots to keep them from going mad with ennui". :V
That much said, I would pay money for The Political Machine: Touhou Edition. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/211120/?snr=1_7_suggest__13) :getdown:
More on topic, I wish Koishi's Heart-Throbbing Adventure would focus on Koishi again. :V
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To be fair I think all of the groups are in the right mindset but some simply know how Gensokyo and its residents and functions better than the others (coughkanakocough), and it's very well possible that good intentions can still lead to undesirable and unforeseen consequences. Byakuren getting to be the butt of jokes is probably more because of the rather odd unexplained choices she's made in her past, such as implying she saved Murasa but was totally ok with people drowning all around her.
Not really sure how heated such a debate that can really get tbh, unless they're being really incessant about it.
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Not really sure how heated such a debate that can really get tbh, unless they're being really incessant about it.
Just as long as the discussions don't head towards Christopher Hitchens territory in terms of both subject matter and sheer level of cynical antagonism---I've seen people pick dumb fights over even dumber things. But since you seem level-headed and fair enough about the matter I don't think you and I have anything to worry about.
(On that note, HEY JACKEREL STRIPE PATTERN STRIPE PATTERN STRIPE PATTERN.)
hinaface
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More badass tohos
Less fanservice
...i feel like i said this already.
More Hinaface is fine too.
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More on topic, I wish Koishi's Heart-Throbbing Adventure would focus on Koishi again. :V
Yeah, that would be cool.
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Yeah, that would be cool.
I'd be happy with a conclusion to the showdown at the Scarlet Devil Manor, even.
There is ADD and then there is "I MUST INCLUDE ALL THE TOUHOUS EVER EVEN IF IT SENDS THE STORY WAY OFF THE RAILS."
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But that's more OCD than anything.
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But that's more OCD than anything.
It's ADD in this case because the guy takes nigh-forever to finish what they started and keeps adding stuff on a whim. I think. :V
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Saw untranslated part 12. TD cast gooooo! For those that might not have seen it. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3RNNDYVrn0)
I would also like to know what the fuck is going on with Satori. :getdown:
Also I just realized something.
When Okuu finds out that Orin was killed, nuclear meltdown. Or worse.
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Intense battle between Byakuren and Miko.
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Onis challenging people to thumb wrestling.
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Less rapey-Yuuka, more Yuuka being super clever and evil in her trolling, in a way you can only say ''God, I want to hit her and pray her at the same time''.
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A proper Touhou cart racing game ala Mario Kart or Sonic & Sega All-Star Racing, with full online matchmaking and so on.
Also a proper D&D Tabletop style Touhou game, one with rules and mechanics that actually make sense and are fun to use, unlike that other one (http://www.gensokyo.org/archives/1446) I found during a Google search a while back when looking for the Cthulhu Mythos tabletop games as at the time I had an interest in learning how to play them, until I realised I don't know any groups nearby that play them :V
But thats another topic for another time. :P
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Also a proper D&D Tabletop style Touhou game, one with rules and mechanics that actually make sense and are fun to use, unlike that other one (http://www.gensokyo.org/archives/1446) I found during a Google search a while back when looking for the Cthulhu Mythos tabletop games as at the time I had an interest in learning how to play them, until I realised I don't know any groups nearby that play them :V
Yoooooo-hooooooo~! (http://wgs.no-ip.org/trpg.pdf)
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Yoooooo-hooooooo~! (http://wgs.no-ip.org/trpg.pdf)
Me and a bunch of friends play the SHIT out of this game. I actually remade my own version of it, since many things are wonky and badly done. Too lazy to rewrite it (despite the fact I'm not the original maker of this).
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Me and a bunch of friends play the SHIT out of this game. I actually remade my own version of it, since many things are wonky and badly done. Too lazy to rewrite it (despite the fact I'm not the original maker of this).
Ahhhh, what did you fix? I see a lot of free time in my near-future so I might just be able to unfux it.
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Ahhhh, what did you fix? I see a lot of free time in my near-future so I might just be able to unfux it.
Uuh, changed the stat up system, working with levels instead (as you could reduce the amount of fan points to attain higher stats by at least half by min maxing your initial stats)
Changed a few classes that were pathetically useless (poltergheist? What, flight ability? Dafuq?)
Took off the whole aesthetics system. That was ridiculous.
Gave a leveling up system where you gain +2 stats per level.
Added spells
Added many classes (now with twice as much)
Balanced spellcards limitations, as a mere 10 CP could get you a spellcard with an insane amount of volleys, while 20 CP gives you a mere second timestop.
Uuh, added rules about owning estates and stuff.
Changed how a few stats works, because they were silly
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]
Yoooooo-hooooooo~! (http://wgs.no-ip.org/trpg.pdf)
Me and a bunch of friends play the SHIT out of this game. I actually remade my own version of it, since many things are wonky and badly done. Too lazy to rewrite it (despite the fact I'm not the original maker of this).
Ahhhh, what did you fix? I see a lot of free time in my near-future so I might just be able to unfux it.
I'd actually love to learn to play it myself, unfortunately I don't have anyone to play it with :( and heck, I'm always up to seeing what can be improves and the like
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]I'd actually love to learn to play it myself, unfortunately I don't have anyone to play it with :( and heck, I'm always up to seeing what can be improves and the like
I only have two real persons to play with in real life :/ Still trying to think of a way to play through online means.
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Wow, that's hilarious. I literally JUST got into playing D&D with a few friends of mine. I'm still learning and all, and I'd like to bring this up at some point, but none of them are into Touhou at all, not even anime or manga. I probably won't get the chance to play it, but I'll attempt to bring it up, see how that goes.
Side-note: I have friends who like anime, and fewer who are even remotely into Touhou, but those friends don't play D&D. I am currently researching on how to fuse friends.
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Side-note: I have friends who like anime, and fewer who are even remotely into Touhou, but those friends don't play D&D. I am currently researching on how to fuse friends.
I have friends who didn't like Touhou NOR D&D and they each got addicted to the Touhou pen and paper game. For... Very different reasons >_>;
Friend A: I like to be a youkai so I can kill, rape and murder people c:
Friend B: I like to be a youkai so I can be beautiful and have many boyfriends c:
Me: *siiiighs* Just roll the damn dice.
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Where do you people find all these awesome friends?! I swear, I am the only person at my college that knows anything about touhou. Trying to get my friends at least interested in the characters, but to no avail.
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Where do you people find all these awesome friends?! I swear, I am the only person at my college that knows anything about touhou. Trying to get my friends at least interested in the characters, but to no avail.
I have no idea. I'm pretty sure they just got into Touhou for
a) The lolis
b) Drawing fanart is fun fun
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Where do you people find all these awesome friends?! I swear, I am the only person at my college that knows anything about touhou. Trying to get my friends at least interested in the characters, but to no avail.
I'm hopefully starting college after the Summer and this is one of the things I'm praying to god that actually happens to me :P But thats just me having wishful thinking :V
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I have no friends who are remotely even into anime or Touhou. Some think it's disturbing and one of my friends says that I look at anime porn *Facedesk*
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What I want to see more and that never happens ;__;
- NEW OUTFITS AND HAIRCUTS. It's tiring to see doujins use the same outfits again and again, especially when it happens over multiple day and they just wear the same thing over and over.
I think that the doujin which I can't remember the name of (About Alice's Hourai and Shanghai doll coming to life and stuff), had the best examples. Casual pony tail Marisa? Action suit Alice? Casual Hair bun Patchouli? Yes, yes and yes.
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^ Touhoumon has some good examples of giving the girls different hairstyles and clothing, yet still looking similar to their original appearances, especially their EX forms in 1.5.
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I have no friends who are remotely even into anime or Touhou. Some think it's disturbing and one of my friends says that I look at anime porn *Facedesk*
Some "friends" they are :V
What I want to see more and that never happens ;__;
- NEW OUTFITS AND HAIRCUTS. It's tiring to see doujins use the same outfits again and again, especially when it happens over multiple day and they just wear the same thing over and over.
I think that the doujin which I can't remember the name of (About Alice's Hourai and Shanghai doll coming to life and stuff), had the best examples. Casual pony tail Marisa? Action suit Alice? Casual Hair bun Patchouli? Yes, yes and yes.
This, I agree on, heck even Reimu and Marisa's outfuts are never EXACTLY the same from game to game, ESPECIALLY Marisa's outfit, she's probably worn more outfits than any other character to date, just compare her SA, UFO and TD outfits to see what I'm saying.
Speaking of Marisa's outfit, the one thing I've noticed that not many artist's tend to do is give her white overalls instead of the feint pink colour they actually have in pretty much every official image of Marisa Zun has done to date, even her SWR/Soku art has aa feint shade of pink added to it. The only official art of Marisa that has her overalls being white is the art Alphes did for IaMP and her Fair Wars art. So it would be nice if more artists when drawing Marisa, would remember that her overalls are light pink in colour, not just white.
^ Touhoumon has some good examples of giving the girls different hairstyles and clothing, yet still looking similar to their original appearances, especially their EX forms in 1.5.
The only problem with Touhoumon is that the AI in those hacks are cheap as all fuck, with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 Touhoumon hacks, though it's been a while since I played a Touhoumon hack I can't really remember exactly.
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^ I wasn't talking about the gameplay. Anyway, it's really up to the people making those hacks. Some people make the game incredibly cheap and brutal on purpose, but some are only as hard as the Pokemon games themselves.
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it would be nice if more artists when drawing Marisa, would remember that her overalls are light pink in colour, not just white.
But then she wouldn't be called the black-and-white :3
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Maybe this doesn't sound that groundbreaking, but I'd love to see more stories about what various characters do during an average day. No incident, no zany misunderstanding, no romancin' - just a regular day in the life; what they do, daydream about, attend to and such. Something more existential than action-packed.
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Maybe this doesn't sound that groundbreaking, but I'd love to see more stories about what various characters do during an average day. No incident, no zany misunderstanding, no romancin' - just a regular day in the life; what they do, daydream about, attend to and such. Something more existential than action-packed.
Perhaps you'd enjoy this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcaGlb9krN8)video and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy_084Qgr5c)short (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yuj6nPnr80A)series (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHEAre0NaO4), then, if you haven't seen them already. I really wish there were more.
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Maybe this doesn't sound that groundbreaking, but I'd love to see more stories about what various characters do during an average day. No incident, no zany misunderstanding, no romancin' - just a regular day in the life; what they do, daydream about, attend to and such. Something more existential than action-packed.
Hear hear!
I'd also like to see more use of that little thing everyone in the fandom but me is convinced doesn't exist. That's right, Gensokyo's male population! After all, it's canon.
Hell, I'd settle for a slice-of-life in the vein of Nichijou. In fact, that'd probably be the best damn way to show things from the PoV of the average joe(not jane!) in Gensokyo.
Random Guy A: "Hear about that Scarlet Mist?"
Random Guy B: "Hear about it? We're sitting in it!"
Random Guy C: "Hey, at least we aren't making it. You hear about that Miko out on the border? I hear she throws Curved Amulets! Curved. Amulets."
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Yes, that's what I'm talking about.
Also, let's imagine Reimu and Sanae meet by chance in the Human Village when they're both shopping. They have some awkward small talk, like "What are you up to?" and "Oh, I have to buy a new broom for the leaves in front of the shrine" and "Wow, at least you get a broom", followed by getting a tea somewhere, where they start talking about their respective daily lives - they're both shrine maidens, they'd probably have a lot in common to talk about. Maybe Reimu would tell Sanae she's lucky she actually sees the gods she serves regularly, while Sanae says Reimu is actually the lucky one, because Kanako is always hanging over Sanae telling her how to do this and that. Sort of a "grass is greener" situation, where they both grow to respect and understand each other a little bit more, and appreciate their own jobs a little more, too.
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That works quite well. Though I also wouldn't be averse to a Nichijou-esque show with the SDM crew. I can only imagine the shenanigans Flan gets up to on a daily basis.
Having a different mental track than pretty much everyone else is pretty damn helpful in that regard y'know.
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1. Reimu and Sanae as "Mario Bros" while Marisa as Peach and Alice as Bowser.
2. Story where residents in Gensokyo meet residents in the Outside World.
That all I can think of for now.
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You know what I'd love to see more of, Tenshi not being portrayed as a bloody Masochist!
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You know what I'd love to see more of, Tenshi not being portrayed as a bloody Masochist!
I think she just really likes hard fights and thinks that they're not worth fighting unless she actually has to exert herself, so of course she goads people into attacking her.
I want to see more Tenshi in general. I think Purvis put it best so I'll just quote him:
[16:57] <ItsPurvisHasLeftThisTimestream> *Tenshi is great because she is is silly enough and petty enough to do all the dumb shit you need a character to do*
[16:58] <ItsPurvisHasLeftThisTimestream> *You need someone to start a fight for literally no reason? Here's Tenshi! You need someone to be outsmarted by Cirno or Daiyousei? Here's Tenshi! You need someone to come down with breast envy? Here's Tenshi! She's your one stop shop for hijinks and monkeyshines*
I've seen some doujins along those lines-- StrangeChameleon comes to mind-- but there should be more. And of course, Tenshi should look fabulous while she's at it. (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/1164696) (Danbooru link warning)
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I've seen some doujins along those lines-- StrangeChameleon comes to mind-- but there should be more. And of course, Tenshi should look fabulous while she's at it. (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/1164696) (Danbooru link warning)
Too bad she gets her face kicked in after that. (http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/691/itspossible2021.png) (don't worry, imageshack)
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I would love to see a Touhou RPG that used similar mechanics to Radiata Stories. That game blew my shit on the awesome scale and that was the first time I actually played an RPG that didn't felt like a total chore.
I was impressed with their 'living daily lives' mechanism, in that, by the morning, all the characters would be doing their own daily stuff and by night, they will go to sleep or do some stuff (depending on the character's background story and etc).
It would be pretty interesting to see that to be assimilated with the Touhou universe where you can start off as Reimu and go on off-days or something like that. It'll also be incredibly cool if the whole of Gensokyo was expertly-engineered to be a fully-immersing experience where you feel you are practically living inside of Gensokyo.
Honestly that's the only RPG I ever loved. Too bad it has no sequel. :(
Also, Unzan needs more doujin spotlights. The naughty ones especially. Fufufu~ :3
Well, TBH, the guy doesn't receive that much attention, and being one of the few male characters, I believe he has his chance to shine, away from Ichirin. (Or with Ichirin if we're going for the dirty stuff :getdown: )
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I think she just really likes hard fights and thinks that they're not worth fighting unless she actually has to exert herself, so of course she goads people into attacking her.
I want to see more Tenshi in general. I think Purvis put it best so I'll just quote him:
[16:57] <ItsPurvisHasLeftThisTimestream> *Tenshi is great because she is is silly enough and petty enough to do all the dumb shit you need a character to do*
[16:58] <ItsPurvisHasLeftThisTimestream> *You need someone to start a fight for literally no reason? Here's Tenshi! You need someone to be outsmarted by Cirno or Daiyousei? Here's Tenshi! You need someone to come down with breast envy? Here's Tenshi! She's your one stop shop for hijinks and monkeyshines*
I've seen some doujins along those lines-- StrangeChameleon comes to mind-- but there should be more. And of course, Tenshi should look fabulous while she's at it. (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/1164696) (Danbooru link warning)
This. I've always seen Tenshi as really just wanting to fight. What Doujin are you talking about?
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This. I've always seen Tenshi as really just wanting to fight. What Doujin are you talking about?
It's linked right there on Danbooru, but here's the hard translated version in case you prefer reading that (like I do). http://www.gensokyo.org/archives/2517 Strange Chameleon ? It?s Possible!, second one on the list.
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1.Cirno WINNING.
2.Cirno WINNING.
3.Cirno WINNING.
4.Cirno WINNING.
5.Cirno WINNING.
6. No, seriously, I wanna see cirno WIN!
7. Yukari being a goofball.
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Mima's "school uniform" from the original game.